Hi Laura,

Just like in clicker training, we can get extinction bursts in CAT.

I would say that no, you did not need to increase the distance.



What you need to do is let her know that that behavior is not what works.



When you see this as not engaged what you may actually be seeing is a

testing

process. The horse doesn't really believe what has happened up until now.

She's

likely as surprised by her feelings as you are.



So, she falls back to what worked previously to see what happens. Will the

other

shoe drop. That's the time for you and your decoy to stay compeltely

unemotional.

Just wait. If she gives distance, you've got to decide if leaving is better

than ugly faces



From her history, I would say that it is. I say this especially because you

wrote

"As an experiment I did about 5 minutes of CAT with her in the pen and me as

decoy using the same approach run but with one hand slightly extended, and

she was touching my hand nicely, but then walked to the far side of the pen

and stood for some minutes *yawn* with her butt to me. Then she turned and

quite briskly walked up and touched my hand again."



I love this decision that she made. The yawn is a release of tension. Most

of us would be inclined to click the hand touch. The touch of your hand is

not clickable.

What it is rather is an invitation to play. So, offer her something

clickable next. And, that c/t can still be a touch. Very hard to wrap your

head around this. But,

this distiction is very important. She came to you because you gave her

control. OK, she said. I'm ready. Now, you can do a c/t behavior



Dolores Arste

Author: Conversations With Cadbury

www.zenhorsemanship.com

Find us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/dolores.arste

.

Laurel,

Whoa girl :)



""Don't click the hand touch" when during the CAT process she comes to touch

me, but then you are saying I can now offer my hand to her as target and

click it.  What do I do next? would this be the point at which I would let

her out of the CAT yard and carry on with CT play? Say I decided to use the

halter during CAT with her loose in the little yard as usual, I would

approach, maybe extend my hand holding the halter a little, and wait. She

has been CT to touch the halter. If she does this during CAT, what do I do

next?  Recently she's been turning her head away from the halter even though

she has freely approached "me carrying the halter" in a friendly way first.

Have I just had an AHA! moment thinking CAT has given her the power to say,

I'm not quite comfortable about that halter, even though with CT she's been

accepting being haltered for some years?"



Jumping ahead to halter may be too big a jump. We don't need to use CAT for

every little thing. You are correct in saying

"CAT has given her the power to say, I'm not quite comfortable ". She can

now choose to take herself away instead of "stuffing" her emotions.



So here we go. She's engaged you in a CAT session. I'd offer her a simple

targeting exercise. Then, I'd leave. I'd come back in C/T mode with the

halter.

It would be a separate event. As with CAT, you looked for signs of

relaxation, now as you bring C/T into the mix, you'll be on the lookout for

signs of

stress.



You want to eliminate/subtract stress. The stress is not necessarally

connected to one event or item like the halter. It could be that the C/T

itself is

the stressor. So, as before when you approached and stopped before she

reacted, now as you posted in the clip from 5Q you'd stop training before

it deteriorated into being stressful. Leave her wanting more.





Dolores Arste

Author: Conversations With Cadbury

www.zenhorsemanship.com

Find us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/dolores.arste

I know it's hard. But, try to remember that C/T is pressure too. The

pressure to succeed sometimes that the horse puts on itself until the steam

vent blows.



For Grace, what's rewarding that isn't pressure. Think in those terms. So

far, we have taking off all pressure as in giving distance or one can think

of it as space.



In retrospect which is usually where we find the 20/20, do you thing she had

begun to bottle up at the point of headlowering? Really take a look at that

moment. And, even try it again. Just the headlowering part.



See if you don't see some bottleing up of emotion. Now, take a look at it

from the CAT perspective of allowing therelease of the emotional pressure.



Tell us more about the CAT event and the headlowering event. During the head

lowering, did you see any tension in any part of her body. And, this may

seem like a silly question. But, was she cheerful? If you think yes,

describe it in physical terms. What did you see.



Dolores

>>That's a yes on this.  The thing that I can't seem to wrap my mind around

>>is that when she offers headlowering, she throws her head down and I feel

>>like I need to reward her.  It's not a nice relaxed gesture.  I'll try to

>>get video of it because I think there is a lot more there than what I'm

>>seeing (thanks Julie L.).  <<

Two things stand out. One she did not offer head lowering during CAT and

second that she threw her head down. It's almost a panic response. I'll put

human words around it.

"If I do this, she'll leave me alone"



Since this is something she knows how to do, I expect that you will begin to

see it offered as you proceed with CAT. However, do not expect it or look

for it. That would be shaping head down. We want to shape anything that is

relaxing for her and right now that is not head down.



So, go ahead and push the threshold a little at a time. Be sure to leave in

that 10 to 15 second wait time before proceeding forward after you leave. It

was a nice change that her teeth didn't clang during head down. I'd be very

happy with that. Next time quit on that note.



It was ok that you offered her c/t. As long as she doesn't feel pressure

from it. Now, you know how to recognize it. By you offering she'll begin to

see the connection and take some of the pressure off of her self. Just be

careful.



Warmly,

Dolores