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yawyanphilippinemartialart · YawYan Philippine Martial Art - Philippine Dance of Death, Sayaw ng Kamatayan
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Dance of Death   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #965 of 1549 |
Re: [YawYan Philippine Martial Art] Re: Dance of Death

Hi Bon and Henkell,

Hi guys, I am Lito (people here in the US call me
Angelo) Pacio. I live here in Los Angeles, CA. and I
am a Kickboxing instructor. I was a former old-timer
Yaw-Yan fighter who trained under Salladin of Yaw-Yan
Pasay years ago when I was still in the Philippines.
Here in the States, I incorporated Brazilian Jiujitsu,
Jeet Kun Do and MMA streetfighting in my training
repertoire. Although my arsenal has a little bit
deviated from Yaw-Yan, I would say the lessons that I
impart to my students are still 80% based on Yaw Yan
principles. I guess once you're a Yaw Yan, you'll
always be a Yaw Yan....forever. I was reading through
your exchange of opinions from both of you guys, and
although I am 10,000 miles away and didn't actually
watch the fight that raised up all these issues, I can
almost envision what really happened over there during
that fateful fight. And because of this, I want to
share my views, that is, if you guys don't mind.
First of all, both of you are correct in the sense
that Bon was speaking from a fighter's side while
Henkell was speaking from the side of a concerned
spectator. Both sides can have opposing angular
views, but yet there's no doubt both sides can agree
on one major issue: the safety of the fighter. Now
let me tackle two issues. First, the officiating.
Let me point out that it is an international rule,
wether here in the US or anywhere in the world, be it
boxing, UFC, grappling or any type of full contact
sports, be it inside the ring or inside the octagon,
that the referee is the NUMBER ONE OFFICIAL. He has
the final say. He is the ultimate decision maker. The
3 judges outside the ring have only one responsibility
- that is, to score the fight. Their only purpose is
to give scoring so that if the fight went to the
distance without any TKO's, then their scoring will
decide who will be the eventual winner by either a
unanimous or split decision, based on the scores.
They DO NOT tell the referee wether the fight will be
stopped on not. In the same way, the referee MUST NOT
rely on the judges wether the fight should be stopped
or not. Inside the ring, the referee is the "supreme
commander", he can even over-ride the decisions of
the fighter or the handlers at the corner. If the
referee decides to stop the fight, even if the fighter
says he doesn't want to stop, or let's say the
handlers will complain that their fighter is still
strong and fit enough to fight, the decision of the
referee will take precedence and will be the final
decision. Anybody can give a damn shit to the ref
wether his decision is fair or not, but that has been
always the rule - the referee has the final word,
period. The way Henkell (as a spectator) described
that fateful fight, specially when the referee relied
on the judges' opinions of wether that fight should be
stopped or not, then I would conclude that such fight
was "poorly officiated". Obviously you have a referee
who cannot courageously make a wise judgement. It's
either he is inexperienced, or he is scared of the
handlers, or got intimidated by the huge crowd, or
worse, he is not well-briefed and properly trained of
his responsibilities as a referee. And that is why the
selection of a well-trained and well-experienced
referee is a very important factor when staging a
fight like this. The referee can "make or unmake" a
fight. In his hands lies the fate of both fighters,
their health and safety, their career, and even their
lives. Choosing the right referee is not as easy as
going to the streets and picking a guy in the corner
and ask him to be a referee in a kickboxing match and
he's gonna get paid. And even if you have chosen a
"professional" referee, there should be a fight
committee who should check the background of the
would-be referee: how many fights has he officiated in
the past? Is he well trained? What kind of training he
received to be a competent ref? ...etc. All these
should have been accounted before organizing a fight
like this. A good referee should be able to
distinguish what we call "red flags" which are
determining factors of wether to stop a fight or not.
What are these red flags? 1) If a cut, bruise or wound
starts to open up and shows blood oozing out, 2) If
the fighter appears to be helpless - continuing to
absorb hits without the ability to hit back, 3) If the
fighter shows signs of helplessness, like limping,
funny look in his eyes (signs of blurred vision), or
any body movements that will indicate he is in extreme
pain - ALL these red flags empower the referee to stop
the fight, regardless wether the fighter nor the
handlers will complain. Again, I didn't watch the
actual fight and just relied on what I have read on
your exchange of emails. My final analysis is...
maybe on the next match, there should be a more
thourough system of how your game organizers will pick
a referee. In any fight organization, choosing the
fighters is the easiest part. Choosing the right
referee is the hardest part. Lastly, on the second
issue regarding matching by age, it is an
international rule that matching should always be
based on WEIGHT. This is based on an accepted
scientific and genetic principle that the more body
mass you have, the more caloric energy you possess.
Meaning to say, the heavier you are, the stronger you
are. That is why the sporting world, pro and non-pro,
has made the weight as a means of measurement when it
comes to matching. Age has got nothing to do with it.
If you are old and weak, then you shouldn't be
fighting at all - plain and simple. A fighter should
know when it's time to hang up his gloves. If you are
old and will still "insist" on fighting, then you have
the freedom to take the risk, because you are fully
aware that you will have to face someone on the same
weight category, REGARDLESS of the age. Although I
don't discount the fact that there have been instances
when older guys beat the younger guys. If you
religiously watch the UFC, you have seen these oldies
beat younger wanna-be's. Good examples are UFC
legends Don Frye and Randy Couture. These are "aging"
champs but the whole world watched in awe as they have
beaten guys almost twice younger than them. So you
see, age should never be a factor when it comes to
matching, as the "old individual" has the freedom of
choice wether to retire or not. Yaw Yan organizers
did the right thing by using weight and not age as a
basis for matching, as it is in righteous compliance
with international rules. I hope gentlemen that these
comments of mine will put to rest the gray areas of
this issue. Thanks, best regards, and long live Yaw
Yan.

Respectfully,

Lito "Angelo" Pacio
Yaw-Yan & MMA Instructor
Torrance, Los Angeles County, CA.




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Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:04 pm

angelpac22
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Message #965 of 1549 |
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Yaw-Yan established in the late 1960's /early 70's was named dance of death because its fighters literally dance in the ring when they fight...the old Yao-Yan...
thepartyzoo
Offline
Mar 17, 2006
10:50 am

Hi, If the title was literally "dance in the ring when they fight" di ba dapat ang title ay "Yaw Ban" hindi "Yaw Yan"? Kasi sayaw(dance)ng laban(fight)....
henkell12000
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Mar 18, 2006
4:53 am

Mr. Henkell, did ken shamrock's gym actually train lions, thus the name lion's den???? i guess it wouldn't even take you a second to think about it. with the...
Bon Bautista
burungkol
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Mar 20, 2006
1:33 am

Hi- Bon I agree with everything you said. I don't question the system you have ruled inside your organization because I am not fully aware with the rule and...
henkell12000
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Mar 20, 2006
4:44 am

Mr. Henkell, thanks for your concern. indeed, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. i appreciate discussions like these as it helps clear out views and...
Bon Bautista
burungkol
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Mar 20, 2006
6:22 am

quote1.: "but bear in mind that they are not being forced." quote2.: "mistake cannot be corrected so long as it doesn't accept as mistake" Bon-I understand if...
henkell12000
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Mar 21, 2006
6:26 am

Hi Bon and Henkell, Hi guys, I am Lito (people here in the US call me Angelo) Pacio. I live here in Los Angeles, CA. and I am a Kickboxing instructor. I was...
angelo pacio
angelpac22
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Mar 25, 2006
9:04 pm

Hello Lito thanks for your input. I'd like to say that, as we are all involved in a martial art way, an artist must not only be aware of the rule of every game...
henkell12000
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Mar 28, 2006
10:06 am

Greetings Yaw-Yan Brother`s and Sister`s I have been reading lately on this page about comments on the Fighting Challenge 3 from a Person named Henkell.And...
chris ro
chefroe
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Mar 28, 2006
8:27 am

Dear Chris, It's good that you clear this things out and clarify what really happened. Hope that everybody will see this in a positive way and support what...
omar olorosisimo
olorosi
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Mar 28, 2006
9:10 am

Hi Chris, Thanks for the clarification. It is a sigh of relief that somebody finally clarified that the safety of the fighters was first and foremost in the...
angelo pacio
angelpac22
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Mar 29, 2006
4:15 am

hello everyone, I'm glad things are clear now. Thanks for everyone who gave their support. Now let's talk about the rounds of beer to come. hahahaha!!!! ...
Bon Bautista
burungkol
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Mar 29, 2006
5:06 am

Before the beer is served……… chris ro wrote: All fighter`s were weighted in and matched according to weight not age..You spoke of the first 3 matches in...
henkell12000
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Mar 29, 2006
10:50 am
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