http://www.cclass.ca/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=27

Richard Jenkins is about to unvail yet another land speed setting
dirtboat. Check it out.
http://www.windjet.co.uk/index.php

The fuselage is a straight taper. I made it this way so I don't have
any problems bending the ply wood over the bulkhead shapes. I have the
patterns in the shop . I can transfer them to paper and mail them to
you if you are interested. I would have to measure the station points
where they are located. The fuselage is 20' long. The bulkhead shapes
are a simple single radius. I developed each bulkhead size by drawing
the fuselage full scale . A side and top view with center lines. The
top and bottom are symetrical too which makes half the work.I located
each station point for the bulkheads. I took each width and height
dimension off the top and side view centerlines . Then I transfered
them to another temple piece (1/4'' masonite) .I had drawn the top and
side centerlines on and transfered the dimensions to the center lines.
I made a set of 3'to 4' long trammel points to swing the radius to
connect the top and side dimension points through trial and error.
Once I found the radius axis points I would subtract for the 1/8''
skin . I ended up with a half of the bulkhead shape. Since the
bulkheads are symetrical I just flipped it over and copied it for the
other half of the bulkhead shape.

I may get some help from my brother to draw up a new wing. He uses a
program called Solid Works in his business. He said we can draw a wing
  or pretty much anything and create a DFX? file of the drawing. There
are cabinet shops with cnc router machines that read the file and will
duplicate whats needed. A cabinet shop nearby that will cut out stuff
for about $20 / hour plus materials. This would be a great way to make
  a one design boat out of plywood.








--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "foiledagain20" <schneidp20@...> wrote:
>
> Should be interesting.   I'm looking forward to the pics and I'm hoping
> you'll share the bulkhead patterns!
>
> Dave
>
> --- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "johhnysrocket2003"
> <johhnysrocket2003@> wrote:
> >
> > I've been working on a new fuselage for better aerodynamics. I based
> > the shape on wind tunnel testing done earlier. The fuselage is wood
> > stringers and plywood bulkheads. It will be skinned with 1/8''
> > plywood. I have posted some pics in the photo section.
> >
>

Should be interesting.   I'm looking forward to the pics and I'm hoping
you'll share the bulkhead patterns!

Dave

--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "johhnysrocket2003"
<johhnysrocket2003@...> wrote:
>
> I've been working on a new fuselage for better aerodynamics. I based
> the shape on wind tunnel testing done earlier. The fuselage is wood
> stringers and plywood bulkheads. It will be skinned with 1/8''
> plywood. I have posted some pics in the photo section.
>

I've been working on a new fuselage for better aerodynamics. I based
the shape on wind tunnel testing done earlier. The fuselage is wood
stringers and plywood bulkheads. It will be skinned with 1/8''
plywood. I have posted some pics in the photo section.

Thanks, Tom. Good thoughts here.
They have a very specialized environment and set of
conditions there and they designed a boat to fit
those conditions and goal.

Deane

-----Original Message-----
From: wingboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wingboats@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Speer
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 1:09 AM
To: wingboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [wingboats] solid wing sailing 48 knots on water



Williams, Deane G HS wrote:
> Interesting. Why do you suppose they went for such a low aspect ratio,
> fat wing?
Because they are only interested in high speeds.  Performance in low or
moderate winds is not a consideration.

Any higher center of effort and they would need to make the platform
much larger.  They need the area for acceleration in their sheltered
bay, since every run has to start from a dead stop.  Induced drag drops
with the square of the apparent wind speed for a fixed amount of lift
(set by the limits of heeling stability), so it isn't as much of a
concern as it would be for the same stability-limited lift at lower
speeds.

If they kept the same rig height and reduced the chord, they would have
better top-end potential because of the reduced wetted area, but they
would take longer to accelerate to that speed, giving them fewer chances

at the record.  They are using a cambered airfoil section, so they've
been able to place the drag bucket to cover the range of lift
coefficients they need.  This may well reduce the profile drag enough to

make up for the extra area, compared to a symmetrical section or a
symmetrical section+flap.

Cheers,

Tom Speer



Yahoo! Groups Links

Williams, Deane G HS wrote:
> Interesting. Why do you suppose they went for such a low aspect ratio,
> fat wing?
Because they are only interested in high speeds.  Performance in low or
moderate winds is not a consideration.

Any higher center of effort and they would need to make the platform
much larger.  They need the area for acceleration in their sheltered
bay, since every run has to start from a dead stop.  Induced drag drops
with the square of the apparent wind speed for a fixed amount of lift
(set by the limits of heeling stability), so it isn't as much of a
concern as it would be for the same stability-limited lift at lower speeds.

If they kept the same rig height and reduced the chord, they would have
better top-end potential because of the reduced wetted area, but they
would take longer to accelerate to that speed, giving them fewer chances
at the record.  They are using a cambered airfoil section, so they've
been able to place the drag bucket to cover the range of lift
coefficients they need.  This may well reduce the profile drag enough to
make up for the extra area, compared to a symmetrical section or a
symmetrical section+flap.

Cheers,

Tom Speer

I think there first boat Yellow Pages Endevour was taller and had a
narrower plat form. I think they made the second boat shorter in
height and wider platform for more stability. It sounds like control
is a big issue according to this article.

SPEED RECORD

Taking A Shot At 50 knots or More

By Rob Mundle

The syndicate that holds the current world sailing speed record of
46.52 knots is to have a crack at the 50-knot barrier with a new boat
during the next Southern Hemisphere summer. For the past year, the
group, led by design guru Lindsay Cunningham, has been working
secretly in a shed on the outskirts of Melbourne building a new
"boat." They've even managed to get it to the water and sail it with
very few people knowing.
The reason for their secrecy was that they didn't want to stir any
interest from others that might be interested in a similar project.
Now, with just about everything ready to go, the secret is out.

Not surprisingly, the new boat is a development of the record holder,
Yellow Pages Endeavour. It's essentially a sailing tripod with three
small floats; one attached to the extremity of each arm. It's longer
and wider than its predecessor and has a considerably lower profile
solid wing rig. It will be sailed by the current world record holders
Simon McKeon as helmsman and Tim Daddo as sail controller.

"We know before we start that this boat is faster than Yellow Pages
Endeavour," said McKeon. "The numbers tell us it's 14 percent faster.
YPE could have gone a heck of a lot faster than it did, so this boat
has the potential for 60-plus knots.

"That doesn't mean we'll get to that figure with the new boat. We will
face the same control problems with this one that we did with YPE.
Maintaining control will be our biggest hurdle. The faster we go the
more the forces change on the foils (the vertical rudder blades and
fins) and with each change comes an associated control problem."

McKeon and Daddo were lucky to escape unscathed when YPE crashed after
they lost control during one speed run. But McKeon says the most
obvious difference between the new boat and YPE is the profile of the
wing sail. It's remarkably squat, a design that Cunningham has
developed after countless hours working in a wind tunnel.

The boat will be named Macquarie Innovations. The syndicate plans to
make the speed attempt at the same location where they claimed the
world record, Sandy Point, on the southeast corner of the Australian
mainland.

















--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "Williams, Deane G         HS"
<deane.williams@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting. Why do you suppose they went for such a low aspect ratio,
> fat wing?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wingboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wingboats@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of johhnysrocket2003
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:46 AM
> To: wingboats@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [wingboats] solid wing sailing 48 knots on water
>
> Macquire Innovations solid wing speed sailing on you tube .
> link
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEVkNv6L6hE
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Interesting. Why do you suppose they went for such a low aspect ratio,
fat wing?

-----Original Message-----
From: wingboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wingboats@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of johhnysrocket2003
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:46 AM
To: wingboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [wingboats] solid wing sailing 48 knots on water

Macquire Innovations solid wing speed sailing on you tube .
link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEVkNv6L6hE




Yahoo! Groups Links

Macquire Innovations solid wing speed sailing on you tube .
link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEVkNv6L6hE

You might want   to contact Greg (corprol nob)If no
one responds . He did the cad work . You can find his email in the
members section under corprol nob. I'm curious as to what you find out
from him. If that doesn't work the coordinates are in the files
section under wd40 plans under johns text main wing and flap. Those
could be used to start with and then deduct the skin thickness and
plot the nose web and trailing edge dimensions and locations.

John













--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "alanwojo" <alanwojo@...> wrote:
>
> Is there any way I can get a ACAD format file for the wings. I am
> looking to make a master part to make all of the pieces required. In
> our machine shop they can read the file direct and would save me
> time/guesswork on the curved shapes of the wing.
>
> Thanks,
> Alan
>

Is there any way I can get a ACAD format file for the wings. I am
looking to make a master part to make all of the pieces required. In
our machine shop they can read the file direct and would save me
time/guesswork on the curved shapes of the wing.

Thanks,
Alan

Here is an email from Phil Rothrock explaining what makes them go faster

Solid Wing Landyacht Study
By Phil Rothrock
July 2007

As anyone knows who has spent any time studying what makes landyachts
move, there are a huge number of variables to take into account.  I
attempt to look at some of the most important ones here.

Soft Sails vs. Solid Wings:  Wings have come to the front in racing
over the past several years with the single exception of Allan who has
become totally dominant with his wingmast/sail combination.  My
studies recently have led me to believe that his success has come
mainly through drag reduction of his entire yacht rather than the
efficiency of his rig.  My reasons are as follows:
1) High speed requires the highest possible lift/drag ratio of the
entire yacht.
2) I have not found reliable data on the lift/drag ratio of soft sails
but they always come up short when compared with solid wings or
wing/flap combinations.
3) That leaves the rest of the yacht which we know to be extremely
clean in Allan's case.  He even waxes his axle and mast.  The
information that I have on wings shows that smoothness can make a
substantial difference.  John Eisenlohr has also created a very smooth
wing using his wooden construction which may account partially for his
meteoric success.  My own wings, covered with rivets and sheet metal
joints don't come anywhere close – too much drag.  Chauncey has done
better with his (covered with glass) but he's heavy (higher rolling
resistance).
4) Basically I believe that, given identical drag on two yachts, the
yacht with the wing/flap combination will win.

Plain Wing or Flapped Wing:  Chauncey has always maintained that his
highest speeds were obtained with a plain wing.  I think that could
easily be true but it doesn't mean (as I think Chauncey believes) that
our flapped wings need to morph into plain wings for high speed.  We
all know that we must have the flap in order to have a full range of
lift coefficients available.  The NACA Report # 603 does a great job
of comparing external airfoil flapped wings with a plain wing.  It
gives lift/drag ratios as well for all angles of attack.  Some
interesting facts emerge when comparing the plain wing to a flapped
wing at various flap angles:
1) At a lift coefficient of .4 the highest lift/drag ratio (22.5) was
the flapped wing with the flap at a minus 2 degree flap angle – yes,
angled slightly up!  The plain wing was at L/D of 22.  Flap angles of
10 and 20 degrees came in at L/D = 19.8 and L/D = 16.
2) At a lift coefficient of 1, the highest L/D was 15 with the flap
angled at 10 degrees but, interestingly enough, all of the others were
equal at L/D = 14.5 including the one with the flap still angled at
minus 2 degrees and the plain wing.
3) At lift coefficients above 1.2 both the plain wing and the
negatively flapped wing were out of the running (unable to develop
those high lifts) but the positively flapped wings continued on up to
a lift coefficient of 1.8 (L/D was 8.8 at that point).

Two things are important to note – (1) L/D ratios of these flapped
wings are comparable to what is obtainable with a plain wing and (2)
in all cases better than a soft sail.  The flap was always offset so
it doesn't match completely with what John is running but it is
close.  The main difference would be when the flap is at minus 2
degrees.  The gap at that point is quite large – much larger than any
gap I have ever run.  The flap is angled just so that it doesn't
interfere with the lee flow on the main wing.  I am currently changing
the controls on my wing so that I can allow that gap to widen while
under way.  We'll see what the results are.  I'm hopeful that the
higher L/D ratio of that configuration will add to performance.

The Value of Aspect Ratio:  This is probably the most amazing area
that I studied!  We all know how well John's new class 5 has performed
compared to much larger high performance yachts.  How can that be?  I
decided to compare identical yachts but with different size wings, one
using a 78 sq. ft. wing (Class 3) and the other using a 48 sq. ft.
wing (Class 5).  However I made the wing heights identical at 24 feet
- which is very similar to John racing against Allan.  The aspect
ratios turn out to be 7.38 for the class 3 vs. 12 for the class 5.  I
used the information from the tables in the NACA report mentioned
above but altered the aspect ratio (6 in the charts) to match the two
wings.  So now we have two identical yachts with identically
configured wings with flaps - the only difference being their aspect
ratio.  Here is what I found:

1) Suppose that each yacht can withstand a lift of 500 lbs. at 60 mph.
  The calculations show that the class 3 yacht needs a lift coefficient
of only .72 while the class 5 needs 1.17 to achieve that.  However the
actual drag (induced + profile) turns out to be practically identical
(25 lbs.) for the two wings!  Incredible!  The higher aspect ratio
plus the reduced sail area of the smaller wing combine to cut the drag
tremendously.
2) What if we compare the two at 50 mph and at only 250 lbs. total
lift?  It then turns out that the drag of the class 3 is 13 lbs. while
the drag of the class 5 is only 10.6 lbs.  Amazing!
3) Continuing on to compare them at 30 mph and 150 lbs. of lift we
find the class 5 is still better.

John has shown us that a two foot average chord can work very well.
He's concerned that he's a little slow getting off of the line but his
light air performance is excellent as well as his performance in heavy
air.  This says to me that we needn't go any wider on the chord.  All
we need to do is build taller if we want more sail area.  Ben you were
on the right track with that 38 foot tall wing and we certainly saw it
work well as you were always the first off of the line.  You just
needed a more stable base to go with it.  Tom Speer told me years ago
that yacht classifications would probably be fairer by using only the
height of mast or wing instead of sail area.  I think he's right.

When would the class 3 yacht outperform the class 5?   It would happen
any time the class 5 yacht is operating at its highest lift
coefficient but the maximum allowable lift had not yet been attained.
  At that point the larger wing could operate at a higher lift
coefficient thereby producing more lift.  The same is true of the soft
sail rig but the flapped wing will always develop a higher maximum
lift coefficient than any soft sail.  It makes me wonder if we might
make use of a double slotted flap thereby producing even more lift
when needed.  A couple of my early wings were double slotted flaps and
they worked extremely well in light air – loads of power!  I was able
to easily sail Zephyr with two people on board and ballast (1200 lbs
total) in winds so light that Mantas couldn't get started. It was a
class 3 but the wing was only 17 feet tall (AR = 3.6).  Hmmmm…
something to ponder.  But then again the L/D ratio at high speed
suffered.  Always trade-offs.

In conclusion, it seems to me that we should develop the highest
aspect ratio wing that we can that will develop the highest lift
possible with the smallest wing area possible.  Plain wings (and
perhaps sails) max out at lift coefficients of 1.6.  Single slotted
flaps go as high as 2.8 – 3.0 and double slotted flaps slightly
higher.  It could be that the extra work in building a double slotted
flap outweighs the slight benefit.  It is true that the single slotted
flap has less drag associated with it in the mid range lift
coefficients than the double slotted flap.  Therefore single slotted
flaps may be all that we really need.

Drag – How Much Difference Does It Make?  I compared our same two
yachts at the maximum lift of 500 lbs at 60 mph.  The actual drag of
the rigs turned out to be the same at about 25 lbs.  If we assume that
the yachts are operating with the apparent wind at 10 degrees off of
the nose it means that the resultant force used is at only 7.1 degrees
forward of blowing the yacht sideways.  Using simple trigonometry
shows that the drag of the fuselage at that point is 62 lbs.  If we
reduce that drag by only 5 lbs this is what I find:
1) Since the angle is so small it reduces the total lift required by
about 40 lbs.  This means that both yachts can operate at lower lift
coefficients to maintain the same speed.  The class 3 yacht changes
from .72 to .66.  The class 5 yacht changes from 1.17 to 1.08.
2) The reduction in lift coefficient produces a reduction in the drag
coefficient.  The class 3 goes from .0345 to .0337 resulting in an
actual reduction in drag of about 1 lb.
3) The class 5 experiences a greater reduction in drag because it is
already operating   at higher lift coefficients where induced drag
makes up a larger percentage of the total drag of the wing.  It
reduces drag by 4 lbs.!

In conclusion, the wings will be able to benefit greatly from fuselage
drag reduction efforts.  I'm confident that we can catch Allan by
paying as much attention to drag reduction as he has.

Comments are welcome.

Phil

Thanks John,
I joined that group too :)
I finally got ahold of Kris.
Looking forward to more fun with these craft,
Robert

--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "johhnysrocket2003"
<johhnysrocket2003@...> wrote:
>
>
>   Robert,
> welcome to the group. I'm a remote control and full sized
landsailer
> and iceboat enthusiast too. I also belong to the yahoo rc
landsailer
> group . I think you can find Kris there too.
> here is the link.
> John
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IRCSSA/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Paisley" <robert@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I'm new to landsailing and having fun with it!
> > Does anyone know if Kris Seluga and Performance RC Landsailing
is
> > still in business? I tried to order from his website and can't
get any
> > kind of email reply?
> > Thanks,
> > Robert Paisley
> > Landsailing in Los Angeles
> >
>

Robert,
welcome to the group. I'm a remote control and full sized landsailer
and iceboat enthusiast too. I also belong to the yahoo rc landsailer
group . I think you can find Kris there too.
here is the link.
John
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IRCSSA/








--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Paisley" <robert@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm new to landsailing and having fun with it!
> Does anyone know if Kris Seluga and Performance RC Landsailing is
> still in business? I tried to order from his website and can't get any
> kind of email reply?
> Thanks,
> Robert Paisley
> Landsailing in Los Angeles
>

Hi,
I'm new to landsailing and having fun with it!
Does anyone know if Kris Seluga and Performance RC Landsailing is
still in business? I tried to order from his website and can't get any
kind of email reply?
Thanks,
Robert Paisley
Landsailing in Los Angeles

I had a conversation with my brother this evening. He uses a 3
dimension mechanical drafting program called Solidworks. It is a
program made a while back to compete with auto cad but more advanced.
One of his work associates is building a newly designed airplane using
Solidworks . He has sent his airplane's Solid works file to a company
that does 3d printing. The 3 d printing prints out a foam 3
dimensional image. The images can be hollow inside too. Just some food
for thought .
Here is a link to some 3d printing.
http://web.mit.edu/tdp/www/applications.html

Ah, Yahoo - gotta love it.  It included the sentence punctuation in
the links in my previous post.  The links to the airfoil gap effect
figures are:

http://f9g.yahoofs.com/groups/g_19576707/3b65/__sr_/b19f.jpg?gr4kOdGBjTYq.TXP
http://f9g.yahoofs.com/groups/g_19576707/3b65/__sr_/1c9a.jpg?gr4kOdGBcHXY6z8V

For some reason the ultralight drag polar link doesn't seem to work
correctly.  Try this one: http://www.tspeer.com/Fisher/C506F5.gif

...
> 1)  Our wing flap combos compare quite favorably with the plain wing
> at low lift coefficients...
> 2)  John's fixed pivot wing also compares quite favorably falling
shy of the fixed wing only in the lowest lift ranges.
> 3)  The Lift/drag ratio with the flap set at 30 degrees is not good.
> This should only be used for getting started.
> 4)  I have no info on what happens, Chauncey, when you pull in that
> 20% thick flap of yours but we know that it can't be good to have
that bulge show up on the Lee side.
>
> I still think we need to work on drag reduction every way we can -
> smaller, cleaner, smoother, fairings, etc.  ...

I agree with all these points.  My web site has some theoretical
predictions for a pair of ultralight airfoils.  One has an external
flap (http://www.tspeer.com/Fisher/C506F1.gif) and the other is a
single element section designed for the same application by a
professional aerodynamicist.  Both of these are designed using modern
airfoil techniques and analyzed using the same computer program
(MCARFA), so this is an apples-to-apples comparison.  The drag polars,
http://www.tspeer.com/Fisher/C506F5.gif, show the minimum drag is
comparable.  The single element section has less drag from a lift
coefficient of 1 up to its stall, but the flapped section has a much
broader range of operation due to the ability to vary the flap.  So
the single section is better aa a point design, but the flapped
section is the best for all-round performance.

External flaps can have low drag at low lift coefficients provided
that they don't cause flow separation.  Without separation, most of
the profile drag is due to skin friction.  A thick flap at zero
deflection right behind the trailng edge is bound to cause a
separation bubble on both sides of the wing ahead of the leading edge.
  This will add to the drag, but maybe not as much as one might think
because the flow should reattach on the flap and the bubbles will
effectively smooth out the outer flow, effectively changing the
airfoil contour.

If the flap could avoid being in that position and move from one side
to the other while still maintaining a reasonable gap geometry, that
would be preferable.  I've played around with ideas for 4-bar linkages
to do this, but not really found a geometry I liked.

Of course, it shouldn't be necessary to operate for long in that
configuration - mainly while tacking.  At high speed, it may be
preferable to use enough negative flap deflection to restablish flow
through the gap.  That will also tend to reverse the hinge moments
about the pivot, making the wing want to self-trim or even float to a
higher angle of attack, so you have to be careful about that.  But if
you're running at very low lift coefficients, the reverse camber and
higher angle of attack of the wing wouldn't necessarily mean the drag
was that high.  There could be a lot of laminar flow on the windward
surface of the wing.

I'm not convinced that a thick flap is the way to go.  A thin flap
would reduce the trailing edge blockage problem.  A thin flap leading
edge is not necessarily subject to the same leading edge stall
problems you have with the wing itself.  This is because the high
pressure at the wing trailing edge cancels the low pressure at the
flap trailing edge when the gap is sized appropriately.

I've posted a couple of pictures that illustrate the effect of
changing the gap.  The first one,
http://f9g.yahoofs.com/groups/g_19576707/3b65/__sr_/b19f.jpg?gr4kOdGBjTYq.TXP,
shows what the shape looks like as you change the pivot location for a
simple straight link.  As you move the pivot forward on the wing,
resizing the link so the flap just clears the trailing edge when
tacking, the effect is to move the flap down, opening up the gap and
increasing the overlap slightly.

What this does to the presure distribution is shown in the next
picture,
http://f9g.yahoofs.com/groups/g_19576707/3b65/__sr_/1c9a.jpg?gr4kOdGBcHXY6z8V.
    As the gap opens up, more air flows through the gap, increasing the
velocity - just the opposite of what you might think if you view the
gap as a venturi.  The adverse pressure gradient on the wing windward
side flattens out, making it less susceptible to forming a separated
region there, and losing a little bit of lift from the trailing edge
loading of the wing.  But the really dramatic effect is the formation
of a leading edge suction peak on the leading edge of the flap.  This
could promote a leading ege stall on the flap.  Surprisingly, there's
almost no change to the pressure distribution on the lee side of the
wing or the rest of the flap away from the leading edge with this type
of variation of the fap/gap geometry.

What this means is, if blockage of the wing trailing edge is a
problem, you can go with a thinner flap and shorter link.  This will
close up the gap and suppress the leading edge suction peak that would
otherwise cause problems with the thin flap.  If you have a thick
flap, it might be worthwhile to experiment with different pivot
locations to see if opening up the gap reduces any tendency for
separation on the wing.

The way to tell if you have a blockage problem is to put a number of
telltales on the wing ahead of the trailing edge.  Stretch string or
yarn in the chordwise direction along the wing surface from the
trailing edge forward.  Tape or glue the yarn down at intervals of
maybe 2 - 5 cm (1 - 2 inches), and slice the yarn with a knife just
ahead of the attachment points.  This will result in a row of evenly
spaced tufts.  Several rows up and down the wing may be useful to show
the whole picture.  When the flap is drawing well, all the tufts will
lie flat.  But when you zero the flap deflection, you'll be able to
see if a separated region forms ahead of the flap and how far forward
it extends.  If there's separation on the windward side of the wing
trailing edge, the gap needs to be opened up.  It'll be hard to see
the tufts on the lee side, but it would be very informative if you
could capture photos of those turfs as you change the flap and wing trim.

Similar tufts on the flap will allow you to track the progression of
flow separation as the flap is deflected or the wing sheeted to a
higher angle of attack.  If the flap lets go all of a sudden, you may
need to close the gap to suppress the leading edge suction peak.

I just had a call from my buddy and his truck load of landsailers. The
playa is in great shape, and they've had good afternoon winds most
afternoons.  Cell phone communication was still tenuous at best, so I
can't offer any more details.

The 1st through 8th of October are the dates for BBC
John










--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, Mark H <landsail@...> wrote:
>
> I believe the Big Boat Coalition has been expanded to
> onew week, so the Oct 1-8 makes sense.  Best to get it
> confirmed by a Class III wing boat owner.  Mark
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________\
____Got
a little couch potato?
> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
>
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
>

I believe the Big Boat Coalition has been expanded to
onew week, so the Oct 1-8 makes sense.  Best to get it
confirmed by a Class III wing boat owner.  Mark



________________________________________________________________________________\
____Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz

I just checked the Nalsa site and it says BBC (Big Boat Coalition)
Alvord, Oct, 1-8 2007"Just Show Up!"

So is it 1st -8th or the 5th-7th?  Maybe it doesn't matter since this
is such an informal event.

--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "kl789995" <bruno-nospam@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know when the Alvord is going to be this year?  I know
> there was talk about extending it this year.  I need to start planing
> for transportation and time off of work.  I checked the Nalsa site, but
> there is no info on the Alvord.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith
>
October 1st - 8th is the plan

--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Brooker" <redpoint@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I'll be in Reno June 8-12 ans was wondering if there are any close by
> desert sailing events the weekend before or after? Thanks, Kevin
>
Kevin , you may be able to find out if you email Landsail Mark Harris
or Landsaildvm Larry Hatch in members section they live in Reno are.
There is also a drylakebed called Misfit Flats they have racing and
sailing in the Reno area.
http://www.nalsa.org/events.htm

Hi All,
I'll be in Reno June 8-12 ans was wondering if there are any close by
desert sailing events the weekend before or after? Thanks, Kevin

Oh, and one more thing....  I've been practicing and I'm going to be
some tough competition for the 2nd annual Blatz Bocce Ball tournament.
I'll bring the Blatz.