I've been poking around some big boat websites and have noticed there is little

to no information regarding the potential hazards and risks involved in moving

across a dry lake bed at speeds in excess of 80 mph with your butt hanging less

than a foot off the ground while being blown by high winds in limited visiblity.

Heck, that sounds like fun to me, but are there any reports of accidents and

their potential causes?



Jerry

I've heard some terrible stories about ice boat crashes and the reasons were

steering failure (hit shore), operator inexperience and collisions with other

ice boats that were not seen due to the sail or just inattention.

A safety reminder: If you build a boat that has your legs straddeling anything

solid you better have a good seat belt arrangement too.

If you ever hit something hard you will slide forward rapidly and cause yourself

great injury.



DW

--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Frost" <jfrost@...> wrote:

>

> I've been poking around some big boat websites and have noticed there is

little to no information regarding the potential hazards and risks involved in

moving across a dry lake bed at speeds in excess of 80 mph with your butt

hanging less than a foot off the ground while being blown by high winds in

limited visiblity.  Heck, that sounds like fun to me, but are there any reports

of accidents and their potential causes?

>

> Jerry

>

Accidents are rare on dry lake beds in the US. Beach racing on smaller confined

area's is a different story. Most of the guys in big boats race. They have

sailed a long time and have allot of experience. They also use right of way

rules when pleasure sailing. Elmirage will be a little trickier to sail a bigger

faster boat at due to less sailable area. Thats why you don't see many there.

Sailing safe has allot to do with respecting others space. Guys that sail fast

through camp are asking for trouble. Knowing where the obstacles are and

avoiding them . Leaving other boats sailing around you room to manuever around

obstacle or marks keeps everyone safe too. I've seen or heard of many accidents

on the ice. Most of them could of been avoided had the ice been checked more

thoroughly before sailing. I think more pleasure sailor iceboat that don't know

right of way rule .















--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Frost" <jfrost@...> wrote:

>

> I've been poking around some big boat websites and have noticed there is

little to no information regarding the potential hazards and risks involved in

moving across a dry lake bed at speeds in excess of 80 mph with your butt

hanging less than a foot off the ground while being blown by high winds in

limited visiblity.  Heck, that sounds like fun to me, but are there any reports

of accidents and their potential causes?

>

> Jerry

>

On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Jerry Frost wrote:



> I've been poking around some big boat websites and have noticed

> there is little to no information regarding the potential hazards

> and risks involved in moving across a dry lake bed at speeds in

> excess of 80 mph with your butt hanging less than a foot off the

> ground while being blown by high winds in limited visiblity.  Heck,

> that sounds like fun to me, but are there any reports of accidents

> and their potential causes?



Collision is the main hazard.  I know of one landsailor fatality when

a motorcycle ran into him.  If I recall the story correctly, the

motorcycle rider was looking backward at the time to see if people on

shore were watching him.



I saw Charlie O'Leary break an axle on Speed Squared when he hit a

post on Ivanpah.  He was doing around 60 mph, and the yacht slid

sideways on its side.  The friction wanted to make the body roll, but

the weight of the rig - supported by the stay to the good axle

sticking straight in the air - wouldn't let it.  The mast acted like a

drogue to keep the yacht sliding belly first.  Charlie was cocooned

inside the body and wasn't hurt.



If you search around the internet, you can probably find a video of

Bill Dale's crash when his mast fluttered.  The wind was too high for

racing, so a couple of yachts went out under mast alone to try to set

a speed record.  The cable controlling his mast rotation broke, and

the mast fluttered, causing very high drag.  The yacht pitchpoled

backward, then leapt into the air and pitched down.  The body buckled

when the front wheel hit, and the hub was ripped out of one of the

rear wheels (Indy car racing slicks).  He was wearing seat belt and

shoulder harness, and was unhurt.  (Mast flutter can be prevented by

mass-balancing the mast so the center of gravity is on or ahead of the

pivot axis, but almost nobody does this for masts although it's pretty

commonly done for rigid wing rigs.)



I saw the result of a Manta that sailed into a barbed wire fence.  The

yacht was pretty cut up, but the pilot was not seriously hurt because

the V-bar on the Manta protected the pilot.



You need to make sure the body of your yacht has an adequate roll bar

that will keep your head off the desert if you break an axle and the

yacht rolls because the stays are now slack.



I think the main things are to be able to see adequately, especially

to leeward because that's where the other guy will be coming at you

when going upwind.  Look to windward because that where the other guy

will be coming at you when going downwind.  Make sure you have a good

restraint system and wear a decent helmet - bike helmets are good for

bike speeds, not big boat speeds.   Make sure the roll bar will

actually keep the yacht off of you.  Watch out for mast flutter when

tacking (keep sheet tension on to restrain the mast).  Keep enough

weight on the front wheel that you can control the yacht.



Cheers,



Tom Speer

Tom



You mentioned, "Mast flutter can be prevented by

mass-balancing the mast so the center of gravity is on or ahead of the

pivot axis, but almost nobody does this for masts although it's pretty

commonly done for rigid wing rigs."



What method is used to mass-balance a rigid wing?



Thanks

Jerry







--- In wingboats@yahoogroups.com, Tom Speer <me@...> wrote:

>

>

> On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Jerry Frost wrote:

>

> > I've been poking around some big boat websites and have noticed

> > there is little to no information regarding the potential hazards

> > and risks involved in moving across a dry lake bed at speeds in

> > excess of 80 mph with your butt hanging less than a foot off the

> > ground while being blown by high winds in limited visiblity.  Heck,

> > that sounds like fun to me, but are there any reports of accidents

> > and their potential causes?

>

> Collision is the main hazard.  I know of one landsailor fatality when

> a motorcycle ran into him.  If I recall the story correctly, the

> motorcycle rider was looking backward at the time to see if people on

> shore were watching him.

>

> I saw Charlie O'Leary break an axle on Speed Squared when he hit a

> post on Ivanpah.  He was doing around 60 mph, and the yacht slid

> sideways on its side.  The friction wanted to make the body roll, but

> the weight of the rig - supported by the stay to the good axle

> sticking straight in the air - wouldn't let it.  The mast acted like a

> drogue to keep the yacht sliding belly first.  Charlie was cocooned

> inside the body and wasn't hurt.

>

> If you search around the internet, you can probably find a video of

> Bill Dale's crash when his mast fluttered.  The wind was too high for

> racing, so a couple of yachts went out under mast alone to try to set

> a speed record.  The cable controlling his mast rotation broke, and

> the mast fluttered, causing very high drag.  The yacht pitchpoled

> backward, then leapt into the air and pitched down.  The body buckled

> when the front wheel hit, and the hub was ripped out of one of the

> rear wheels (Indy car racing slicks).  He was wearing seat belt and

> shoulder harness, and was unhurt.  (Mast flutter can be prevented by

> mass-balancing the mast so the center of gravity is on or ahead of the

> pivot axis, but almost nobody does this for masts although it's pretty

> commonly done for rigid wing rigs.)

>

> I saw the result of a Manta that sailed into a barbed wire fence.  The

> yacht was pretty cut up, but the pilot was not seriously hurt because

> the V-bar on the Manta protected the pilot.

>

> You need to make sure the body of your yacht has an adequate roll bar

> that will keep your head off the desert if you break an axle and the

> yacht rolls because the stays are now slack.

>

> I think the main things are to be able to see adequately, especially

> to leeward because that's where the other guy will be coming at you

> when going upwind.  Look to windward because that where the other guy

> will be coming at you when going downwind.  Make sure you have a good

> restraint system and wear a decent helmet - bike helmets are good for

> bike speeds, not big boat speeds.   Make sure the roll bar will

> actually keep the yacht off of you.  Watch out for mast flutter when

> tacking (keep sheet tension on to restrain the mast).  Keep enough

> weight on the front wheel that you can control the yacht.

>

> Cheers,

>

> Tom Speer

>

On Jul 9, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Jerry Frost wrote:



> ...What method is used to mass-balance a rigid wing?



Weight in the leading edge on or an arm projecting ahead of the

leading edge.



Due to the side-to-side movement of the rig from slack or stretch of

the shrouds, the ballast will be more effective if it is up high than

at the foot.



Cheers,



Tom Speer