Date: March 5, 2009 6:16:41 PM EST

To: Gerald Babao <gerald@...>

Subject: Fwd: Bill Stearns Combined Cup

Is it possible to share this with the marathon and wildwater people?

As a courtesy to the  ACA WWOC DR committee I would like to share the discourse, dialogue and final status of this proposal with respect to this year's WWOC event.

 

We have elected to call this 'pro race' the Bill Stearns Combined Cup in recognition of his many contributions to WW racing in general and in particular for initiating the earliest competitions on the Dead River.

 

The sponsoring organization- ACA New England- has agreed to include these cash prizes as a Non-ACA sanctioned feature supplemental to the event.

 

The Committee Chair has given his opinion below on WWOC rules with respect to cash prizes; I agree with his position.

 

The intent of the Stearns Cup at this years event is to:

1. Attract more elite participants to the WWOC nationals - modest cash prizes are proven to be effective in drawing the best paddlers to any type of paddling competition.
2. Encourage the use of F14 canoes in DR racing in order to sustain this group of classes.
3. Recognition of the best overall paddler at the nationals without regard to age, gender, class, boat, etc.

 

• Our Race Committee will offer cash prizes of at least $250 for the fastest combined paddler down to $25 for the 10th fastest combined paddler. 
• There will be a minimum $100 award for the fastest combined female paddler.
• The cash awards will be made to individuals not teams.
• Female competitors will be allowed a two minute reduction in their combined elapsed time.
• To qualify for a cash prize each competitor must enter one OC1 and one OC2 Downriver event, one of which must be a F16 class.
• There will be no other stipulations for the Bill Stearns Combined Cup by age or gender or canoe type.

Your comments and feedback are welcome, however this format is the final decision of the Race Committee and is not subject to revision for this summer's event.

 

Respectfully,

Clayton Cole

 

 

----- Original Message -----

 

From: Cole, Paul

To: c1cole ; George Stockman

Cc: Sandra Mitchell

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:28 AM

Subject: RE: decision soon

Officially:

First, the formal part. I think George has an interesting idea and hope it gets people more involved. But,  the annual WWOCDR regatta is an amateur event. Officially we don’t do cash prizes. The ACA WWOCDR Committee is NOT involved with this event. However, the race organizers can be involved, and that seems to be the context this would be done in. Just need to make sure that is clear to all.

 

This is not a championship related event, and is not sanctioned by the ACA WWOCDR. To the extent that it is based on races that ARE championship classes, that seems to make it implicit that all ACA WWOCDR rules apply. But that part is up to the sponsors? Subject to change based upon what the sponsor(s) decide, at the times which they may decide to change it? In other words – if someone has a problem with this they will need to take it up with the sponsor(s) and the race organizers.

 

 

Unofficially:

The majority of people will like the cash, especially in today’s economic climate. What they do with it is up to them.

 

Providing handicapping so people can stay in their F16 doesn’t seem to be much different from what has been going on forever. Is the purpose to get people to step up to a more challenging boat, that can go faster but is more difficult to paddle and has a smaller margin of error that can result in slowing one down due to taking on water or capsizing?

 

The F16 vs F14 factors:

                F14 specs can allow a faster hull then F16

                F14 specs can result in a less stable hull then F16– particularly the ones that are faster.

                F16 can take more abuse, slide over rocks in shallows and bounce off rocks without incurring damage that could happen to a true F14 boat.

                F16 specs allow for more volume, higher sides, making it able to navigate heavier whitewater without taking on water that a F14 boat would in the same conditions. A high sided F16 boat will not jig for F14 unless the sides are cut down.

               

Male vs. Female:

                Experien ced female paddlers are competitive with most paddlers, especially in the mixed classes. Giving a handicap by virtue of being female can be providing an added competitive advantage.

Same for going strickly by age – a 16 year paddler who has been competing in DR for years is competitive with most paddlers.            

 

 

 

From: c1cole [mailto:c1cole@...] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:49 AM
To: George Stockman
Cc: Sandra Mitchell; Cole, Paul
Subject: Re: decision soon

 

George,

 

I guess I was saying we would follow your original proposal in terms of 'it'.

 

RE: more purse money.... We are not flush with money yet for the event.  That is not to say that we cant raise additional purse money in Bill's name.  Are you having 2nd thoughts about your offer to capitalize the cup or are you concerned that we need more purse money?

 

I think cash or checks would be appropriate - just like other canoe races do.

 

I favor proposal A.  The participation in the F16 classes has been steady and robust and is less in need of a boost than the race classes; wasn't that the point?

 

As far as handicapping we could compare F14v F16 times from the  more recent events.  The differences are smaller than many years ago for a number of reasons:

 As you mentioned many of the better paddlers are in F16 boats now.  2nd: the F16 boats of 2009 are a far cry from the Trippers and heavier OC1 used back in the 80's.

Clayton

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: George Stockman

To: c1cole@...

Cc: Paul Cole ; kittydoc2@...

Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 9:58 PM

Subject: RE: decision soon

 

Clayton,

I should have called -- other things on my mind this weekend! But, I think we
have converged on something. See my comments embedded below.

George

---

From: c1cole@...
To: g_stockman@...
CC: Paul.Cole@...; KittyDoc2@...
Subject: Re: decision soon
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 09:31:27 -0500

George,

Those paddlers in ME I have described your proposal to are excited about it.

I would like to try it.
=========> Very well, let's go with it.  Exactly what is "it"?

I think we would like to call it the Bill Stearns Cup:  Bill was instrumental in organizing the 1st races on the Dead.  He is experiencing some health problems and this would be a great way to recognize his contributions while he can enjoy the recognition.
=========> I'm very happy with the "Bill Stearns Cup". I like the ole guy. Perhaps other people who do would toss in a few more bucks.

 

Here are some thoughts I have had:

1.  The WWOC committee voted to remove restrictions on amateur stat us of competitors some time ago....  Now we are proposing an actual 'Pro' race.  Does anyone anticipate a problem?  I don't, but...
=========> No one has brought any 'Pro' problem up. I don't know anyone in our colleagues who are planning on trying out for the Olympics.
                     But, we could give out "gas cards" or "travel reimbursement" checks if you want to play it safe. The awards are all individual
                     and someone could not participate or not take the $ and leave it with the race management. (You can note that on the entry form.)

2  I view this (like the Hackett award) as non ACA WWOC award. That is since  it is sponsored by an individual and administered by the local race committee and furthermore is not covered by the WWOC rules in any way then the committee shall have little authority over the proposal- although everyone's opinions are certainly worth considering.
=========> Sounds good to me. It's like giving out an extra T-shirt or duffle bag to those who do well.

3  Given that the point of your proposal was (I think) to deflect attention away from the Hackett controversy while simultaneously addressing the flagging F14 numbers and at the same time giving F16 paddlers an opportunity to showcase their paddling I favor moving ahead with the proposal as presented.  No competitor is obligated to

participate.  We need to recognize that there are few F14 boats available for the races; those who have them may be somewhat reluctant to loan them out to paddlers with no experience in using them.  But since the rules allow the use of any material in the F14 classes then any paddler can use a F16 boat for the F14 entry even pulling in the width.... this has been done in the past.

4  Handicapping should be done by class as you proposed.  This is in the spirit of a true open 'paddle what you brought' class.  br> =========> This has little to do with the Hackett award. I'm hoping for a significant impact and mixer.
                     ??????????????? I'm not sure I follow your entire line of thinking here. Here are 2 choices that I see.

                                                 (a) My original proposal: Cup paddlers must race one F14 and one F16 class class.
                                                      No handicap given if they use an F16 boat, pulled in or not, for their F14 class run.
                                                      As I understand it, you are favoring this alternative and suggest that those without
                                                   &n bsp;  F14 boats can pull in their F16 boats.

                                                 (b) An alternate proposal that is more inclusive, but will cause less class mixing:

                                             Cup paddlers who use an F16 boat for BOTH of their cup runs will
                                             have an additional 2 minutes subtracted from their time. (The boat
                                             must then jig to be a genuine F16.) Keith Havens argued strongly for
                            &nb sp;                this alternative -- those who can't paddle, afford, borrow, an F14 can
                                             play with exactly what they have. If you think there are few F14 boats,
                                             this might be the better alternative.

                                             I believe that with good paddlers, the F14 boat is worth more than
                                             2 minutes on the Dead (and the other rivers we race) and thus favors
                                             using F14 boats -- something that I was trying to do. Back in the old
        &n bsp;                                    days an F14 was 5 minutes faster on the Yough and Nantahala, but some
                                             of that was because the best athletes paddled F14. Today there are 
                                             fine athletes paddling F16 and hardly anyone paddling F14! I am 
                                             assuming that you are planning the same 100 minute race course
                                             we had last time on the Dead.

I think we may be surprised at how this could pan out... in terms of paddlers who turn out and the boats and classes they choose to compete in;  putting a needed twist of interest in an event that seems to be getting stale.

=============>  Please think through (a) versus (b) above one more time with your race management. I will support either.
                              **************** you race organizers make the final decision. you can take responsibility or "blame"
                                                     me.  Otherwise, I would like to be anonymous *****************
                              But, you have to publicize it before February is out, right! Sandy can tell me how to send the $ to the
                              race committee.

 George  (I paddled 3 times this week! Ida joined my yesterday on a 30 degree run.)

 

Clayton

----- Original Message -----

From: George Stockman

To: c1cole@roa drunner.com ; g_stockman@...

Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:24 AM

Subject: decision soon

 

Clayton,
 
We haven't heard from everyone and the support for a cup is fair but not strong. No
one offered to kick in more $. Let's talk soon to decide if we'll announce it or not. 
I'd like to hear your current thoughts and will likely yield to your choice[s].
 
Keith wants to allow paddlers to paddle only one t ype of boat and add that to the
handicapping -- say 2 minutes off for an F16. I'm OK with this, but it doesn' do
much that is new -- same ole guys doing the ame ole thing for gas $.
 
One thing I didn't think of before, which I like, is that good F14 paddlers "forced" to 
race F16 could give the F16 Club a hard time! Could be cool to have the Underwoods 
or Kaz race an ABS boat. I don't know whether or not Keith has thought about this. 
I'd like to boost the competition and crossover. Of course, if Kaz chooses to race
the cup, this would legitimize F16 in a new way.
 
Very cold January is now borken. We get 60 degrees today and my river will again
be paddleable.
 
George
 

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