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Poor attendence in WW racing   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1166 of 1332 |
Re: Poor attendence in WW racing

The response I promised yesterday...

Though it was almost 25 years ago, I rather vividly recall my second US Team Trials.  It was 1984, Peshtigo River, about 100 miles to the north of Green Bay.  That's right, 100 miles north of Green Bay, in April.  Of course, it was cold.  The put-in was not on solid ground, it involved walking across a 10-15 foot-long sheet of ice.  And even with the frigid weather, there were more than 105 entrants to the 1984 US Team Trials.

1984 was a Pre-Worlds year at Garmisch.  And man, we sent the whole kitchen sink to Germany.  6 "A" Team K-1s, 6 "B" Team K-1s, and a few other K-1s also went just hoping that perhaps they'd get a chance to race.  Though we didn't fill out "B" Teams in the other races classes, the US was flush with C-1s, C-2s, and Dubs.  Though I don't have the exact count, I'm sure there were almost 30 paddling Americans banging their way down the Loisach.

For purposes of comparison, let me play back some stats from this year's (2008) US Team Trials on the Cheat River.  It was an early April race, and we had 22 entrants.  12 K-1s, 6 Dubs, 4 C-1s, and no C-2 entrants.  5 of the entrants were of Masters designation, and 4 were Juniors – the Jrs and Srs made up about 40% of the race.  By the time we got Europe, we had 7 K-1s, 4 C-1s, and 1 Dub.  This includes 5 Masters and 2 Juniors.

So the totals:

                1984 Team Trials Entrants: ~105

                1984 US Team Members to Europe: ~28

                2008 Team Trials Entrants: 22

                2008 US Team Members to Europe: 12

 

So, just looking at the figures, yep, on the domestic wildwater front, there was more going on 25 years ago.  Anecdotally speaking, I think we hit a high-water mark in 1989, the same year the Worlds came to the Savage River. 

And this had led Dan Murn to legitimately ask "Why is WW racing fading?"  Though I have no conclusive reasoning behind this decline, I can serve up a few possibilities.

1) Expansion of open water paddlesport racing.  Here I am talking about the seemingly endless array of races for sea kayaks, surfskis, and other long boats.  25 years ago, this was just peeking in from around the corner.  And now, this slightly-unstructured class of competition is flourishing.  On any given Sunday here in Seattle, the Sounds Rowers Club will have a race with over 200 boats in it.  And it's like almost every weekend.  I know that all of you have an analog where you live.  If paddling competition is in your heart, his alternative to river wildwater paddling is pretty compelling.

2) Equipment.  Boats, that is.  This is a huge problem.  25 years ago, an American-built composite wildwater was not too tough to get.  Jaycox in CO, Bushnell up in NY State, Andy Bridge in Maryland, and since ww boat molds were around, the occasional home-built popped up from time-to-time.  Fast forward to 2008 – I  am not aware of any US-based wildwater boat builders.  Getting a new boat today requires a bi-lingual transaction with one of the builders in Europe.  And then you need to solve the expensive problem of getting it delivered.

There are no "bad guys" in this observation.  Wildwater boat building is a micro-niche here in the US, and all of the would-be customers have no money.  Bad business model, here the business reality.

Plastic boats, like WaveHoppers and the Speeder have a ton of potential here in the US.  But these Brit boats are not ubiquitous…there are some interesting boat import constraints that are challenging to comprehend.  Yuck – more business reality.

3) Race organizers.  Over the years, the number of third-party players willing to host races has dropped to almost zero.  How come?  Well, putting on a race is time-consuming, and the hosts typically lose money as well.  This is the main reason that we've seen a shift where individuals, and not companies, are putting on races.  We all know the obvious solutions to this – higher entry fees, subsidies from USACK or other supporters, or guarantees of revenue lift (probably from retail sales).  This is a case of prudent business making smart decisions for their businesses.  More business stuff.

4) Organic marketing.  In the past, would-be wildwater paddlers are exposed to the sport at events and through their paddling buddies.  This exposure was the de facto marketing (ie recruiting) for sport growth.  Well, take a peek at #2 and #3 above.  As that dries up, the Implied Marketing effect stops happening.  So, the recruiting problem that used to solve itself no longer does.

I know this is getting long, so let me quickly comment on the key items our US Wildwater Board is working to solve.

a) How do we attract Race Organizers?  As we know, this is a business problem, and probably can be solved with a business approach.  Stated simply…how do we make a Wildwater race financially profitable to a host?  In fact, irresistibly profitable to a potential host?

b) Marketing/Recruiting.  Since the organic marketing has evaporated, how do we explicitly recruit into the sport?  And of course, how do we do that in a way that's not super expensive?  We experimented with a few adjunct events to the 2008 Nationals this year, and we will not really know the results until the spring.  But in the future, expect to see more out-of-the-ordinary things at your local river.  They're all back-handed attempts to get more butts into wildwater boats.

c) Equipment.  Though the old school guys look at WaveHoppers and Speeders somewhat disdainfully, there is enormous potential for sport growth with these plastic beauties.  We just need to solve the procurement problems, and that's a solvable problem.

d) Money (fund raising).  Though it's a short-term fix, we can throw some more cash at some of these problems, and get some short-term lift in all categories.  But for non-Olympic wildwater, corporate sponsorship is too tough a sell at this stage.  So, we're trying to find better ways to tap individuals, like friends and alum, to cough up some green.  But, as I said, this is very short-term solution.  Ultimately the sport has to be able to support itself financially.  And I'll spare y'all the details of what that would like for my next fillibuster.

So Dan, ya got any other questions?  <grin>

Seth Eisner

Chairman, US Wildwater Committee

 

 


--- In wildwater@yahoogroups.com, "Seth Eisner" <seth@...> wrote:
>
> Friends, this is something I have been noodling on for 10 years. And
> at this point, I have some pretty reasons, and some pretty specific
> possible remedies.
>
> Please give me a day or two to tune my thoughts, I'll let post a
> hopefully-well-thought-out response here.
>
> Until then, I appreciate your patience.
>
>
> Seth Eisner
> Chairman, US Wildwater Committee
>
>
>
> --- In wildwater@yahoogroups.com, "lakesurfer52" dmurn@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> > Why is WW racing fading? Is there a reason(s) we can not draw new
> > paddlers to enjoy this sport?
> > I have been promoting the sport for 25 years. hosting many regional
> > races and the Nationals.
> > I have my opinions! Would like to hear from our group why the sport
> > does not move forward.
> > Dan
> >
>



Thu Nov 6, 2008 7:05 pm

fezhund
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Forward
Message #1166 of 1332 |
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Hi Why is WW racing fading? Is there a reason(s) we can not draw new paddlers to enjoy this sport? I have been promoting the sport for 25 years. hosting many...
lakesurfer52
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Nov 5, 2008
3:14 pm

Conflicts. The Nantahala South Eastern race was held the same day as the World Beer Festival. I know that's no excuse and all... Paul...
Paul Scrutton
paul_scrutton
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Nov 5, 2008
3:42 pm

Friends, this is something I have been noodling on for 10 years. And at this point, I have some pretty reasons, and some pretty specific possible remedies. ...
Seth Eisner
fezhund
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Nov 5, 2008
3:50 pm

The response I promised yesterday... Though it was almost 25 years ago, I rather vividly recall my second US Team Trials. It was 1984, Peshtigo River, about...
Seth Eisner
fezhund
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Nov 6, 2008
7:05 pm

Seth Great reply!!!!! you seemed to ahve it pegged. Now What? Are you being named to the white house staff!!!! Do you remeber was there any amenities at the...
lakesurfer52
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Nov 6, 2008
9:33 pm

First I apologize for being part of the problem. My wife, Diane, has been dealing with cancer and I have been reluctant to travel when I don't have to. I did...
Bob Horlacher
bobhorlacher
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Nov 7, 2008
2:15 am

So what are your opinions Dan? A complete lack of local domestics races that can build participation seems to be an issue. Chris ...
Chris N
mhc_antigen
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Nov 5, 2008
7:53 pm

What about a viable equipment pool? The Speeder races that Pyranah has been putting on, have been super popular, and reduce the barrier to entry as the boats...
Paul Scrutton
paul_scrutton
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Nov 5, 2008
9:10 pm

Hi Everyone, (Landis Arnold Here) Wildwater Racing has some of the following problems in my opinion. These absolutely need to be weighed against the wonderful...
Landis Arnold
landis.arnold
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Nov 7, 2008
12:34 am

Landis Your right on about equipment! The older boats Match 2, Lieser King and such were easy to roll and much more versitile. Running rivers in boats like...
lakesurfer52
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Nov 7, 2008
2:39 pm

Landis- I appreciated your take on the boat issue.  I agree that fear of boat damage is a big issue, especially when you are starting out (or at least it...
Edward Gordon
edgww
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Nov 7, 2008
3:48 pm

Ed, If time were plentiful I would be popping some '89 Savages and as well as the even more comfortable '87 Isere boats out of the molds I have here. I would...
Landis Arnold
landis.arnold
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Nov 7, 2008
8:12 pm

Update on the '79 Model Name Hi Landis, I know that Jean Pierre Burny was world champion in 79. Was it his boat (that has shown up somewhere in Canada)? If...
Landis Arnold
landis.arnold
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Nov 7, 2008
8:14 pm

We enjoyed significant growth in USA Wildwater from 2004-07. The bullet point version of what we did right was: - Really promote our sport and our events...
jpinyerd@...
jspinyerd
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Nov 5, 2008
9:06 pm

"We enjoyed significant growth in USA Wildwater from 2004-07" John, I don't mean to be an ass, but where do these numbers come from? If you examine numbers of...
Chris N
mhc_antigen
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Nov 5, 2008
9:17 pm

Certainly, like Slalom, we are facing many challenges.The point is that we can make progress. If we work hard and work together we can get our sport growing...
jpinyerd@...
jspinyerd
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Nov 6, 2008
2:21 pm

This is not jsut a problem in the US. In the UK we are struggling with numbers. The high cost of fuel is certainly not helping. Wild Water racing is a very...
Orange
orangewwr
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Nov 6, 2008
2:42 pm

Everyone, yes everyone, that is thinking about the sport's future needs to carefully read this: ...
Mike Baker
mikec2c1
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Nov 7, 2008
6:55 am

In the past I've been against almost all design restrictions, except weight. But perhaps the time has come for desperate measures ... I do hope that when they...
Jamie McEwan
jpmcewan
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Nov 7, 2008
1:43 pm

Yep, the Delphin 79 would be the first design I ever broke - snapped the nose off at the Serpent's Tail in Llangollen. ________________________________ From:...
Chris N
mhc_antigen
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Nov 7, 2008
8:29 pm

Good points.... However, I would say that being "Olympic" is not helping slalom or sprint to grow. Their growth (or lack thereof) comes at the grass roots (and...
jpinyerd@...
jspinyerd
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Nov 9, 2008
5:54 pm

At a grass roots level what does it take to get someone to try and also race a wildwater boat? One of the best run races in the new england area is the Scantic...
Mark Wendolowski
lmsc80
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Nov 9, 2008
10:39 pm

Mark makes a great point (and a position that I have long since held) that every step up in a class in river difficulty has the effect of limiting the number...
jpinyerd@...
jspinyerd
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Nov 9, 2008
11:19 pm

Are these races advertised on wildwater forums? There aren't many wildwater racers, but even fewer wildwater races. If folks knew about them maybe some would...
Chris N
mhc_antigen
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Nov 9, 2008
11:33 pm

I found a series of races held in the northeast at: http://www.neckra.org/RaceSchd.htm Unfortunately, I found them this fall after the races were over when I...
Chuck Brabec
cebrabec
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Nov 9, 2008
11:45 pm

I didn't mean in any way to put the emphasis on you to chase these things up Chuck (he, he, I just said upchuck!). Notably, about the only race in the whole...
Chris N
mhc_antigen
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Nov 10, 2008
12:13 am
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