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Reply | Forward Message #19445 of 25032 |
Re: Why point down?

--- In western-arts@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Wagner" <galloglaigh@...>
wrote:
> Or from our interpretation of said source material.

Slap noted.

> I do a little party trick with this against knife-fighters, where I
take
> Talhoffers ward and challenge them to stop the attack, then kill
them first
> time *every* time. Unless you know what can be done from there, and
where
> and how to move to avoid it, these medieval techniques are sure
killers in
> or out of armour.

Hi Paul,

And none of these knife fighters have been able to slide to one side
and attack your hand or wrist with their knives as you stab? Can you
tell us how you do that? Which of Talhoffer's wards do you use? He
shows 4 in the Ambraser Codex, if I recall correctly, counting the
two-handed one that's not in any of the other MSS: downward stab,
upward stab, backhand stab and two-handed stab.

I've had real trouble with this against quick, skilled opponents
unless I use really quick, light techniques (in which case the
defender doesn't have time to use many of the slower defenses, like
the Shear), so I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong. Thanks!

Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org






Fri Feb 3, 2006 5:12 am

hughk1453
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Message #19445 of 25032 |
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... Or from our interpretation of said source material. I've stayed out of this one, but just have two things to say. First, the "icepick" grip is very...
Paul Wagner
galloglaigh@...
Send Email
Feb 3, 2006
4:54 am

... Slap noted. ... take ... them first ... where ... killers in ... Hi Paul, And none of these knife fighters have been able to slide to one side and attack...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 3, 2006
5:13 am

... I don't have any trained knife fighters among my friends, but it has been my experience too against some of the would-be knife fighters; as they are...
silly_pl4c3
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Feb 3, 2006
9:37 am

... do ... the ... hand ... the ... You're absolutely correct, there are many things you can do to people who pull back their dagger after a fast...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 3, 2006
4:18 pm

... Not to be condescending, but perhaps that is not the only way to end up in the shears. Have you tried the way where you sort of strike his thrust to the...
silly_pl4c3
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Feb 3, 2006
5:41 pm

This is the counter to shears I was referring to (second technique) http://www.truefork.org/DragonPreservationSociety/dagger1/Dagger184.php...
silly_pl4c3
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Feb 3, 2006
5:58 pm

... http://www.truefork.org/DragonPreservationSociety/dagger1/Dagger184.php ... I knew which one you meant! Say, is that your web site (something you posted...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 3, 2006
7:08 pm

... Yes, that is me in the pictures. Which one do you call the "one-handed twist out"? Tafel 189?...
silly_pl4c3
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Feb 3, 2006
7:26 pm

... handed ... No, Tafel 170 (left side), the same one as seen here: http://mhewer.club.fr/Library/Talhoffer/kamp0133.jpg I must have stared at those two...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 3, 2006
7:51 pm

... Oh, THAT one. You'll hate me for this, but it was among the first things I figured out :) and I love it, although the dynamics are a bit different from...
silly_pl4c3
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Feb 3, 2006
8:04 pm

This is probably the page you saw, years ago: http://www.truefork.org/DragonPreservationSociety/Degen.php These were my first interpretations, performed by my...
silly_pl4c3
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Feb 3, 2006
8:11 pm

... Yes, that's it exactly. ... on ... Now that one I didn't need help with--it was immediately apparent to me, although I don't see it as finishing with an...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 3, 2006
8:19 pm

... bit ... OK, now don't I feel stupid! <grin> I *still* don't see how you saw the mechanics of that from the simple picture in Tahoffer, but as soon as...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 3, 2006
8:17 pm

... This is the funniest thing I have ever seen as a result of WMA research. :P...
Dante di Pietro
dante_di_pietro
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Feb 4, 2006
12:33 am

... <dante_di_pietro@...> wrote: http://www.truefork.org/DragonPreservationSociety/dagger1/Dagger184.php ... Heck, that's not even *close* to being the...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 4, 2006
5:57 am

... his ... process, ... arc? ... and ... I don't take that as condescending at all; we're all working these things out, and anyone who claims to know it all...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 3, 2006
6:44 pm

... I admit it is a bit of personal interpretation. All techniques are situational. There are a number of techniques in most manuals that start with grasping...
silly_pl4c3
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Feb 3, 2006
7:21 pm

... wrote: <snip> ... I agree with all that you say, and I, too, teach the dagger techniques from a flowchart sort of process. Typically if someone held his...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 3, 2006
7:35 pm

I was interrupted in my previous reply, so I fear it may not be too clear - I basically agree with most of what you say; that many of the techniques shown also...
silly_pl4c3
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Feb 3, 2006
6:20 pm

Hi Hugh, ... No offence meant :) - just we alway have to be aware what we do is an *interpretation*, and if something looks silly or doesn't make sense or ...
Paul Wagner
galloglaigh@...
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Feb 3, 2006
11:50 am

... an ... sense or ... not the ... I'm glad to hear that: I detest it when someone just assumes that a different idea is a result of weak study. Thank you...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 3, 2006
4:37 pm

Hi Hugh, Goodness me, what a lot of posts! ... Thanks a lot! Dave Halfpenny is the chap - good bloke. Has a tendency to mash fencing masks due to his...
Paul Wagner
galloglaigh@...
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Feb 4, 2006
2:55 am

... whereas in ... Fiore ... arm. I ... straight ... the range ... closer to the ... like ... With total respect, Paul, I don't believe we can put too much ...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 4, 2006
3:30 am

Hi Hugh! ... My experience with I33 has made me a lot more cautious about assuming that! All the little details we got wrong in the book were basically because...
Paul Wagner
galloglaigh@...
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Feb 4, 2006
7:27 am

... he has ... guy's ... would you ... simple ... doesn't ... somewhere ... I switched to longsword because that's the form the masters use to exemplify the...
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 4, 2006
5:22 pm

I played a little bit with a friend tonight on this "quick jab - shear", and I want to propose the following: when you do the x-block to his attack, don't do...
silly_pl4c3
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Feb 4, 2006
10:10 pm

... him ... conveniently ... you ... shear. ... just a ... avoid ... I think a couple of things... First, I think your Shear idea is *brilliant*. I like it in...
hughk1453
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Feb 5, 2006
12:50 am

... I don't disagree with your original argument, but I believe the Germans really did tend to use a lot of armour-like techniques in their naked fights. I may...
silly_pl4c3
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Feb 5, 2006
9:51 am

... of ... I agree completely, although I'm less likely to look for those ideas for fear of developing an idea the original master mightn't have agreed with....
Hugh
hughk1453
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Feb 5, 2006
7:32 pm

hi, sorry for not responding sooner but my computer is down and I'm forced to borrow one for ahwhile. I haven't read all of the posts on this topic as of yet,...
Trevor Hart
wzrdsword
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Feb 6, 2006
9:00 pm
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