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Re: [Wado Forum] Jitte no Kiai????   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #6330 of 10172 |
Re: [Wado Forum] jitte 1 0r 3 ?difference in kata

> So if then decide to train these kata in Wado why
> wouldn't it be possible to make one wado kata...in
> stead of all the variations.

Why?
If variations are not permitted, there will never be change, there will never be
advancement. Even if you take suhari into account, variations should be
permitted in order
to have a `live' ryu.
Not every change is for the better, obviously. But no change is worse because it
means
dead wado.

I'd say even the 9 `basic' katas aren't written in stone. Heaven help us if we
keep on
repeating Ohtsuka sensei for generations to come. After all, wado came about
because
Ohtsuka did NOT exactly copy previous masters.

Don't get me wrong. Change is tricky, very tricky business. To change things you
first
need to understand them. And who is to say who understands what? sometimes I
think I
understand. Only to realize later I merely scratched the surface.

And there is a distinct difference in status between the 9 `basic' katas and the
rest. The 9
katas arrived to us through Ohtsuka. To understand Ohtsuka is to understand the
9 katas.
Or so I suppose...
But the other katas came through various sources. To understand a kata, you need
to
delve into the source. Delving into the source of -say- Jitte from two different
lineages
may prove quite difficult. So how would you know what to keep and what to get
rid of
when `flattening out ' two variations of Jitte? Where did these extra teishos
come from?
Why? Are they perhaps the result of brilliant inspiration, or are they simply
wrong? And
what is the 'original' anyway? Who is to say?
I'd say flattening out variations isn't all that important and should only come
as a result of
comprehension, certainly not for the sake of politics.

Igor A







Tue Aug 3, 2004 1:29 pm

kodia1963
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Message #6330 of 10172 |
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Dear Arnold , Perhaps it depends on with version of Jitte , in for example , the books of Kono Sensei you see that he brings a different version then as taught...
Dovid
p_d@...
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Jul 30, 2004
11:57 am

Thanks David, As mentioned before I don't think that a kiai should be on a specific place bud anywhere where it attribute to the feeling of the kata. Of course...
Arnold Keizer
arnoldkeizer
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Jul 30, 2004
12:09 pm

You NEVER EVER Kiai in Wado kata. Never never never never… It is wrong. Very wrong….Bad, bad, bad. Now that I have your attention…. My answer to the...
bnashrei
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Jul 30, 2004
7:44 pm

In addition to Bob's most interesting lecture I'd like to throw in some real world kiai as I know it.... Once upon a time my wife (an excellent karateka, as...
kodia1963
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Jul 31, 2004
5:52 pm

Simple question for you all to ponder, does Jitte have 1 or 3 Teisho’s? I have seen both performed by top Wado Instructors. Steve Balaam-Reed 3rd Dan Chief...
steve
legend20002001
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Aug 2, 2004
10:11 pm

With that I want to add the question; If you look at the Wado syllabus you will see that all top wado instructors will do the pinan kata until chinto the same....
jaron ben yochanan
jaronby
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Aug 2, 2004
10:26 pm

... I'm sure one of the seniors on this forum could elaborate, but... These katas were indeed originally not part of the syllabus. Doesn't it stand to reason...
kodia1963
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Aug 3, 2004
12:04 pm

therefore the other katas originate from ... Hi Igor, Yes, might be, but why then all organizations have for most the same kata (in name). Then they decided...
jaron ben yochanan
jaronby
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Aug 3, 2004
12:42 pm

... Why? If variations are not permitted, there will never be change, there will never be advancement. Even if you take suhari into account, variations should...
kodia1963
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Aug 3, 2004
6:49 pm

I'd say flattening out variations isn't all that important and should only come as a result of comprehension, certainly not for the sake of politics. ... hold...
jaron ben yochanan
jaronby
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Aug 3, 2004
8:31 pm

. Igor, Reading your comment ... I don't think for a moment that you have taken Su Ha Ri into account. The philosophy and mechanism of Su Ha Ri specifically...
regkear@...
regkear
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Aug 4, 2004
6:26 am

... Perhaps. But if so it can only be because I have not yet fully grasped the concept of suhari. I feel -departing from my level of understanding- that 1 or 3...
kodia1963
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Aug 5, 2004
4:49 pm

BS"D Many times in History , you'll will see that the question "WHY" , is not sufficient . To understand things , it is most times very helpfull to ask "HOW" !...
Dovid
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Aug 4, 2004
8:12 am

Dovid, The difference between WHY and HOW is like the difference in level of education. Jaron Wadoryu karate Israel ... __________________________________ Do...
jaron ben yochanan
jaronby
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Aug 4, 2004
8:46 am

Igor, ... You seem to have answered your own conclusion here. ... Indeed........ But if you don't refer to the template it isn't wado. Reg Kear San no Ya ...
regkear@...
regkear
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Aug 5, 2004
9:37 pm

This kata -- Jitte ni - I haven't heard of it. Is it similar to the Jitte we all know? Dale _____ From: Dovid [mailto:p_d@...] Sent: Friday, July...
Everdale M Gatchalian
wadodoc
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Jul 31, 2004
5:52 pm

I also saw on the site the blurb about Suparinpei. What do you all make of it? I know that Wado Kai practices it, as taught by Hakoishi Sensei, but according...
Everdale M Gatchalian
wadodoc
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Jul 31, 2004
8:28 pm

Dear Dale , you live in Sweden then ? About the Jitte -Ni Kata , by Kono Sensei referred to as the "Japanese" Variant , there are many differences , mainly...
Dovid
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Aug 1, 2004
6:51 am

... Karate , but I ... and he ... every ... Dovid, There is a big difference between zenkutsu dachi and junzuki dachi. And Suzuki Sensei understands the...
bnashrei
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Aug 1, 2004
8:41 am

Hi Dovid, My apologies for the length of this post which I must say from the outset is my opinion only. Sensei Nash is quite correct of course, there is a very...
regkear@...
regkear
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Aug 1, 2004
12:29 pm

Does anyone have any thoughts on Sokuto v. Yoko geri in Shotokan or Tobikomizuki v. Kizamizuki? Dale _____ From: regkear@......
Everdale M Gatchalian
wadodoc
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Aug 1, 2004
10:08 pm

BS"D Dear Reg Sensei , Thanks for your explaination , I had to read a few times to get it into the head-space , Bob Sensei's last message in fact already...
Dovid
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Aug 2, 2004
6:32 am

No I am in the United States. Thanks for the explanation. Shito-ryu's Jitte, I have noticed, also has 3 teisho uchi like you said you have seen. I have ...
Everdale M Gatchalian
wadodoc
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Aug 1, 2004
3:29 pm

Good Morning Arnold , I do agree with you for 100 % ! Meanwhile we learned from Bob Sensei's interesting article more about Kiai , and we are forced to...
Dovid
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Aug 1, 2004
7:37 am
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