why don't we just use the processes in the draft representation policy for
now for aussie nats, and then whenever these nobel prize winning thoughts on
regional development and tournies are created we can change the rep policy
to suit?

i think the idea of forming a squad to play a game at every tour event is an
excellent one. but it means that we need to get together a selector or two
(or three) real soon so that they can organise things to make this stuff
happen. april is real close.

nice work rach.


h

-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Grindlay [mailto:rachg@...]
Sent: Thursday, 31 October 2002 15:14
To: Upc-International@Yahoogroups. Com
Subject: [upc-international] Australian Nationals 2003


The Australian National Ultimate Championships for 2003 will be held over
25-28 April 2003 in Canberra. It is 6 months until the tournament.

I want to notify people wanting to attend what the selection
criteria/process will be for teams. Since the draft representation policy
has been parked until we have some further thoughts on regional development
and tournaments I am unsure how to proceed from here.

One suggestion that has been made to me, is that an initial squad is formed
at the first 'tour'* event, and that there is a time slot allocated at that
event, and those following which enables to squad to play one game. (i.e. if
there are 25 men interested in attending Aus Nats then they will play a game
at each tour event, and then from those who are in this squad a team is
selected). This would depend on their being time available at tournaments to
fit such a game in. Interested players could be required to attend at least
1 or 2 of these events so that selectors are able to see all candidates
playing. The problem with this is the timing of the final selections may be
too close to the dates of Aussie Nats. A benefit of this would be that the
players get to actually play some mens/womens ultimate and also get to play
at least a couple of times with their team mates.

[*or should that be the first tournament in the series of tournaments which
were formerly known as the tour.]

Anyway, has anyone got thoughts on this? I see little point having a
selection policy if it is not used. But more importantly the principles of
the policy are what I think are crucial: "The process used to select teams
for international events is clear and transparent, simple, and rationally
defensible."

Rachel

i might go to kaimana. but i wouldn't change the tour schedule for me. so i
don't think you should either :-)

there won't be many kiwis there. and even fewer coming from nz.

-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Thirkell [mailto:justin_thirkell@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 12:14
To: 'upc-international@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004


I have no problems with changing dates as long as
1) tournament venue can be rebooked
2) TD is ok with it
3) nzfda list is given a week to object - I wouldn't want to change it if
people have already booked non-refundable/non-changeable flights.

I would rather not be the one to organise this - any volunteers out there
(ie anyone actually wanting to go to Kaimana and the "national event") for
checking points above?

Justin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Sanders [mailto:dave@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 11:27 AM
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004
>
>
> - Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2003 - (bids close 15 Nov)
> (unfortunately this is also the same weekend as one of our
> tour events... we
> should maybe try to avoid this clash for next year? a small
> number of us
> went to this tournament in 2002 and it was great, would be
> cool to get 2
> full NZ teams there, Open and Womens)
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rachel Grindlay [mailto:rachg@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2002 10:23 p.m.
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004
>
>
> I agree with most of your sentiments/concerns Dave.
>
> I think it is possible to get teams in all divisions. But to
> do so, we (I)
> need to prepare people now, not 6 months before. If certain
> people only want
> to go on a 'top' team then that is there prerogative. If they
> don't make the
> 'top' team (which I presume will be the co-ed team) then they have the
> choice of playing with the open or womens team (should there be enough
> players to form) or not going at all. This is why I am keen
> to make people
> aware of the potential situation now, not 8 months out, so if
> people only
> want to play on the top team they can start putting in the
> hard yards now to
> ensure they do as much as possible to ensure selection.
>
> I agree that getting people to Finland is going to be hard enough (re:
> money/leave from work) without expecting attendance at other
> international
> tournaments. I was not suggesting that attendance at build-up
> events would
> be part of the selection criteria. This is just another
> reason for planning
> for Finland now - so that players can (if they want to) plan
> to expand their
> international experience prior to then. If NZ teams can get
> to Kaimana or
> some other overseas tournament - great! If not, well we need
> to work with
> what we've got.
>
> I am also sceptical about World Disc Games. I don't think
> that our energies
> should be focused on it, if someone wants to organise a kiwi
> team to go then
> good for them. But I don't see that an official NZ team will
> go. I have not
> heard anything more from Japan about the possibility of the
> Pacific Rim
> championships (chasing up on this though).
>
> In my mind the possibilities for teams (or parts of teams) to
> prepare prior
> to Finland are:
>
> Open/Womens Teams
> - Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2003 - (bids close 15 Nov)
> - Australian Nationals April 2003
> - Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2004
> - Australian Nationals April 2004
>
> Co-ed
> - Australian Mixed Nationals - Oct 2003
>
> There may be other events which are also suitable.
>
> Rachel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Sanders [mailto:dave@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 6 November 2002 3:52 p.m.
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004
>
>
> I think we should go to any/all events as long as enough
> people are keen to
> train and capable of representing NZ.  However, it isn't
> always that easy is
> it...
>
> Finland.  Right now I wouldn't think we have enough people
> willing and/or
> able to represent NZ to fill teams in every division, there
> will always be
> some people that would want to go, but only if it is a top
> team.  In which
> case it comes back to what division or divisions are aimed for.
>
> The build-up of other international tournaments is a nice
> idea, however, it
> again becomes tough as there will always be people that for
> some reason or
> another would want to go some of them and not others.  If we
> start putting
> rules in place about having to go to a certain number of build-up
> tournaments or something, then there will always be
> exceptions asked for,
> and that will be hard to deal with.  Our current international player
> numbers do not really suit being able to exclude people
> completely because
> they can't make one of the build-up events.
>
> Sorry to be a bit pessimistic about it all, personally I know
> I'd love to go
> to as many tournaments as possible, especially world class
> tournaments, but
> there is a limit to how many of these you can attend and how
> far into the
> future many people here can plan for.  It was tricky enough
> getting the 2
> teams to WUCC with many people initially entered withdrawing
> for a multitude
> of reasons.
>
> WDG.  Can't really find out much about this, the organiser
> Tom was at WUCC
> trying to convince as many people/teams/countries as possible
> to go, and
> really seemed to put it on a bit thick.  I can't seem to find
> out much about
> what is happening with Ultimate there, and what I have found
> worries me a
> little, such as:
> Under "Registered Ultimate teams" there are only 3.
> http://www.worlddiscgames.com/format_ultimate.htm - talks
> about how it will
> be run... just sounds dodgy to me, what do you lot think?
>
> Sorry if not a lot of this makes sense, just rambling off
> some thoughts...
> Dave S.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
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> ---------------------~-->
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i don't think that those airfares are realistic guys. you can fly return to
london almost anytime of year for around $2k. japan is about half the
distance. i would say $1500 is much  more reasonable. perhaps the airlines
do not have their special airfares on sale yet.

similarly, you can fly anywhere in europe return from here for the same
money as to london usually. so about $2k.

i would be keen to help get a team together.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Grindlay [mailto:rachg@...]
Sent: Monday, 11 November 2002 21:43
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania
Ultimate Championships


I've done a quick search for airfares

Auckland - Akita (Via Seoul) with Korean Air is $3,265
Wgtn/Akld - Tokyo with Qantas is $3600+

So costs would be something like:
Airfare $3300
Accom/Food $500
Entry Fee $200
Total cost $4000

plus things like uniforms etc.

comparatively costs for Finland would be:
Auckland - Helsinki with Qantas starts from $3308 (if you want to go via LA
& London)
however other flights I've looked at are quoting $4500+
Accom/Food $1000
Entry Fee $400
Total cost ~ $5-6000

I need to respond to Moro with our interest by the 17th so if anyone (like
cities) thinks they could get a team together, or if people think that we
can realistically get team(s) to Japan.

rachel

I've done a quick search for airfares

Auckland - Akita (Via Seoul) with Korean Air is $3,265
Wgtn/Akld - Tokyo with Qantas is $3600+

So costs would be something like:
Airfare $3300
Accom/Food $500
Entry Fee $200
Total cost $4000

plus things like uniforms etc.

comparatively costs for Finland would be:
Auckland - Helsinki with Qantas starts from $3308 (if you want to go via LA
& London)
however other flights I've looked at are quoting $4500+
Accom/Food $1000
Entry Fee $400
Total cost ~ $5-6000

I need to respond to Moro with our interest by the 17th so if anyone (like
cities) thinks they could get a team together, or if people think that we
can realistically get team(s) to Japan.

rachel

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lewis-Shell [mailto:nog@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 7:58 a.m.
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania
Ultimate Championships


What great timing for more info!

I think this should be our international target for 'next year'.  It's
far enough away for people to plan for, and is a genuine international
tournament.  It's also important to support this initiative as it is
the 'official' filler for the worlds that was lost by switching to the
4 year cycle.  Hopefully a 3 day tournament in Japan will be cheaper
than 6 days in Finland, but any idea how much it is likely to cost?

Richard

On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 09:37  AM, Rachel Grindlay wrote:

> This has just arrived. What are the realistic chances of getting
> people to
> Japan? Airfares aren't exactly cheap.
>
> R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morooka" <morooka@...>
> To: <stevenklee2000@...>; <tigerhul8@...>;
> <presiden@...>; <secretary@...>;
> <bali_ultimate@...>;
> <kfdg@...>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:39 AM
> Subject: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships
>
>
>> Dear Asia & Oceania Flying Disc Associations & Ultimate Players,
>>
>>
>> World Flying Disc Federation(WFDF) is encouraging Asia & Oceania
>> countries
>> to have Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships in 2003(AOUC2003) to
>> develop
>> Ultimate in more Asian & Oceanian countries.  WFDF will not have any
>> sanctioned World Ultimate Championships in 2003.
>> Japan Flying Disc Association(JFDA) has asked Singapore to have
>> AOUC2003,
>> because JFDA hosted World Games 2001.  However, Singapore has tried to
> host
>> AOUC
>> 2003, but there is not enough number of fields in Singapore.  Finally
>> Singapore informed JFDA that they can not organize AOUC2003
>> officially.
>> It's very important to have AOUC2003 to make a chance to join
> International
>> tournament for the Asian & Oceanian countries have never entried World
>> Championships.
>> JFDA will do our best to host AOUC2003 in August.  We have to
>> estimate the
>> budjet as soon as possible. We'd like to ask you the possibility to
>> join
>> AOUC2003.
>> Could you answer our quesions as follows as soon as possible?
>>
>> < 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships - Tentative Plan >
>>
>> Date:  August 8(Fri) - 10(Sun)  or August 15(Fri) - 17(Sun)
>>
>> Place: Akita or Mie Prefecture,  Japan  (Korean Air will offer the
>> cheap
>> flight from your country to Akita via Seoul)
>>
>> <QUESTIONNAIRE>
>> 1. Does your association or team want to join AOUC2003?           YES
>> NO
>>
>>
>> 2. IF "YES", please let us know the min. conditions:
>>
>> (1) Total Amount of Entry, Accomodation, Full Meals &
>> Transportation(in
>> Akita or Mie) /person:
>>
>>           About 50,000yen     About 40,000yen      About 30,000yen
> About
>> 20,000yen   About 10,000yen    Other(
>>   )
>>
>> (2) Other requests
>>  )
>>
>> (3) Division:   OPEN(    ) team(s)                  WOMEN (
>> )team(s)
>> MIXED(     ) team(s)                 MASTERS(      )team(s)
>>
>>
>> 3. Your Contact:
>>
>> (1) Country
>>  )
>> (2) Association or Team Name
>>  )
>> (3) Contact Person
>>  )
>> (4) Address
>>
>> (5) Telephone (
>> (6) Fax. (
>> (7) E-Mail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Please reply as soon as possible (by Nov.17, 2002).
>>
>>
>> Ultimately yours,
>>
>>
>> Fumio Morooka(MORO)
>> WFDF Board Member
>> Vice-President of Japan Flying Disc Association
>> 5-15-21 Fukasawa, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-0081, Japan
>> Tel/Fax.(+81)3-3701-1559
>> e-mail  morooka@...
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: upc-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: upc-help@...
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Did think about that when I found they were the same week, but then looked
at the calendar, couldn't really move it forward a week 'cause it is then
too close to the next one, couldn't really move if back a week 'cause that
is the same weekend as golf nationals.  Was more saying that we should maybe
consider it next year?

However, if someone is keen to organise a kick-arse Open team for this
Kaimana and change the tour I'm in, just don't want to be organising it this
time, am up to my neck in organising stuff at the moment as it is...

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Thirkell [mailto:justin_thirkell@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 12:14 p.m.
To: 'upc-international@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004


I have no problems with changing dates as long as
1) tournament venue can be rebooked
2) TD is ok with it
3) nzfda list is given a week to object - I wouldn't want to change it if
people have already booked non-refundable/non-changeable flights.

I would rather not be the one to organise this - any volunteers out there
(ie anyone actually wanting to go to Kaimana and the "national event") for
checking points above?

Justin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Sanders [mailto:dave@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 11:27 AM
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004
>
>
> - Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2003 - (bids close 15 Nov)
> (unfortunately this is also the same weekend as one of our
> tour events... we
> should maybe try to avoid this clash for next year? a small
> number of us
> went to this tournament in 2002 and it was great, would be
> cool to get 2
> full NZ teams there, Open and Womens)
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rachel Grindlay [mailto:rachg@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2002 10:23 p.m.
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004
>
>
> I agree with most of your sentiments/concerns Dave.
>
> I think it is possible to get teams in all divisions. But to
> do so, we (I)
> need to prepare people now, not 6 months before. If certain
> people only want
> to go on a 'top' team then that is there prerogative. If they
> don't make the
> 'top' team (which I presume will be the co-ed team) then they have the
> choice of playing with the open or womens team (should there be enough
> players to form) or not going at all. This is why I am keen
> to make people
> aware of the potential situation now, not 8 months out, so if
> people only
> want to play on the top team they can start putting in the
> hard yards now to
> ensure they do as much as possible to ensure selection.
>
> I agree that getting people to Finland is going to be hard enough (re:
> money/leave from work) without expecting attendance at other
> international
> tournaments. I was not suggesting that attendance at build-up
> events would
> be part of the selection criteria. This is just another
> reason for planning
> for Finland now - so that players can (if they want to) plan
> to expand their
> international experience prior to then. If NZ teams can get
> to Kaimana or
> some other overseas tournament - great! If not, well we need
> to work with
> what we've got.
>
> I am also sceptical about World Disc Games. I don't think
> that our energies
> should be focused on it, if someone wants to organise a kiwi
> team to go then
> good for them. But I don't see that an official NZ team will
> go. I have not
> heard anything more from Japan about the possibility of the
> Pacific Rim
> championships (chasing up on this though).
>
> In my mind the possibilities for teams (or parts of teams) to
> prepare prior
> to Finland are:
>
> Open/Womens Teams
> - Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2003 - (bids close 15 Nov)
> - Australian Nationals April 2003
> - Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2004
> - Australian Nationals April 2004
>
> Co-ed
> - Australian Mixed Nationals - Oct 2003
>
> There may be other events which are also suitable.
>
> Rachel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Sanders [mailto:dave@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 6 November 2002 3:52 p.m.
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004
>
>
> I think we should go to any/all events as long as enough
> people are keen to
> train and capable of representing NZ.  However, it isn't
> always that easy is
> it...
>
> Finland.  Right now I wouldn't think we have enough people
> willing and/or
> able to represent NZ to fill teams in every division, there
> will always be
> some people that would want to go, but only if it is a top
> team.  In which
> case it comes back to what division or divisions are aimed for.
>
> The build-up of other international tournaments is a nice
> idea, however, it
> again becomes tough as there will always be people that for
> some reason or
> another would want to go some of them and not others.  If we
> start putting
> rules in place about having to go to a certain number of build-up
> tournaments or something, then there will always be
> exceptions asked for,
> and that will be hard to deal with.  Our current international player
> numbers do not really suit being able to exclude people
> completely because
> they can't make one of the build-up events.
>
> Sorry to be a bit pessimistic about it all, personally I know
> I'd love to go
> to as many tournaments as possible, especially world class
> tournaments, but
> there is a limit to how many of these you can attend and how
> far into the
> future many people here can plan for.  It was tricky enough
> getting the 2
> teams to WUCC with many people initially entered withdrawing
> for a multitude
> of reasons.
>
> WDG.  Can't really find out much about this, the organiser
> Tom was at WUCC
> trying to convince as many people/teams/countries as possible
> to go, and
> really seemed to put it on a bit thick.  I can't seem to find
> out much about
> what is happening with Ultimate there, and what I have found
> worries me a
> little, such as:
> Under "Registered Ultimate teams" there are only 3.
> http://www.worlddiscgames.com/format_ultimate.htm - talks
> about how it will
> be run... just sounds dodgy to me, what do you lot think?
>
> Sorry if not a lot of this makes sense, just rambling off
> some thoughts...
> Dave S.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Sell a Home with Ease!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/v3UolB/TM
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> -------~->
>
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BUGGER SECOND TIME TODAY...

NEVER TRY TO EMAIL AT WORK WHEN REALLY BUSY.....

F

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:joe@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 12:29
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia
&OceaniaUltimate Championships


if you want to

when you up this way next??

and what is cities doing about the whooper... we need to know by the middle
of next week for the cheap tickets...

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Pegler [mailto:Andrew.Pegler@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 11:05
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia
&OceaniaUltimate Championships


we may need to talk
if you guys ain't happy then we need to do something

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:joe@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 10:53
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia &
OceaniaUltimate Championships


DO YOU THINK THAT WE ARE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION??

OR DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT OVER THE WEEKEND?

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lewis-Shell [mailto:nog@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 09:58
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania
Ultimate Championships


What great timing for more info!

I think this should be our international target for 'next year'.  It's
far enough away for people to plan for, and is a genuine international
tournament.  It's also important to support this initiative as it is
the 'official' filler for the worlds that was lost by switching to the
4 year cycle.  Hopefully a 3 day tournament in Japan will be cheaper
than 6 days in Finland, but any idea how much it is likely to cost?

Richard

On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 09:37  AM, Rachel Grindlay wrote:

> This has just arrived. What are the realistic chances of getting
> people to
> Japan? Airfares aren't exactly cheap.
>
> R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morooka" <morooka@...>
> To: <stevenklee2000@...>; <tigerhul8@...>;
> <presiden@...>; <secretary@...>;
> <bali ultimate@...>;
> <kfdg@...>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:39 AM
> Subject: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships
>
>
>> Dear Asia & Oceania Flying Disc Associations & Ultimate Players,
>>
>>
>> World Flying Disc Federation(WFDF) is encouraging Asia & Oceania
>> countries
>> to have Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships in 2003(AOUC2003) to
>> develop
>> Ultimate in more Asian & Oceanian countries.  WFDF will not have any
>> sanctioned World Ultimate Championships in 2003.
>> Japan Flying Disc Association(JFDA) has asked Singapore to have
>> AOUC2003,
>> because JFDA hosted World Games 2001.  However, Singapore has tried to
> host
>> AOUC
>> 2003, but there is not enough number of fields in Singapore.  Finally
>> Singapore informed JFDA that they can not organize AOUC2003
>> officially.
>> It's very important to have AOUC2003 to make a chance to join
> International
>> tournament for the Asian & Oceanian countries have never entried World
>> Championships.
>> JFDA will do our best to host AOUC2003 in August.  We have to
>> estimate the
>> budjet as soon as possible. We'd like to ask you the possibility to
>> join
>> AOUC2003.
>> Could you answer our quesions as follows as soon as possible?
>>
>> < 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships - Tentative Plan >
>>
>> Date:  August 8(Fri) - 10(Sun)  or August 15(Fri) - 17(Sun)
>>
>> Place: Akita or Mie Prefecture,  Japan  (Korean Air will offer the
>> cheap
>> flight from your country to Akita via Seoul)
>>
>> <QUESTIONNAIRE>
>> 1. Does your association or team want to join AOUC2003?           YES
>> NO
>>
>>
>> 2. IF "YES", please let us know the min. conditions:
>>
>> (1) Total Amount of Entry, Accomodation, Full Meals &
>> Transportation(in
>> Akita or Mie) /person:
>>
>>           About 50,000yen     About 40,000yen      About 30,000yen
> About
>> 20,000yen   About 10,000yen    Other(
>>   )
>>
>> (2) Other requests
>>  )
>>
>> (3) Division:   OPEN(    ) team(s)                  WOMEN (
>> )team(s)
>> MIXED(     ) team(s)                 MASTERS(      )team(s)
>>
>>
>> 3. Your Contact:
>>
>> (1) Country
>>  )
>> (2) Association or Team Name
>>  )
>> (3) Contact Person
>>  )
>> (4) Address
>>
>> (5) Telephone (
>> (6) Fax. (
>> (7) E-Mail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Please reply as soon as possible (by Nov.17, 2002).
>>
>>
>> Ultimately yours,
>>
>>
>> Fumio Morooka(MORO)
>> WFDF Board Member
>> Vice-President of Japan Flying Disc Association
>> 5-15-21 Fukasawa, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-0081, Japan
>> Tel/Fax.(+81)3-3701-1559
>> e-mail  morooka@...
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: upc-help@...
>
>
>
>
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Hey guys.

Please do me a favour and figure out internal decisionmaking processes of your
club somewhere else other than the mailing list.

Cheers

J.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:joe@...]
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:29 PM
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia
&OceaniaUltimate Championships


if you want to

when you up this way next??

and what is cities doing about the whooper... we need to know by the middle of
next week for the cheap tickets...

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Pegler [mailto:Andrew.Pegler@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 11:05
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia
&OceaniaUltimate Championships


we may need to talk
if you guys ain't happy then we need to do something

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:joe@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 10:53
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia &
OceaniaUltimate Championships


DO YOU THINK THAT WE ARE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION??

OR DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT OVER THE WEEKEND?

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lewis-Shell [mailto:nog@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 09:58
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania
Ultimate Championships


What great timing for more info!

I think this should be our international target for 'next year'.  It's
far enough away for people to plan for, and is a genuine international
tournament.  It's also important to support this initiative as it is
the 'official' filler for the worlds that was lost by switching to the
4 year cycle.  Hopefully a 3 day tournament in Japan will be cheaper
than 6 days in Finland, but any idea how much it is likely to cost?

Richard

On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 09:37  AM, Rachel Grindlay wrote:

> This has just arrived. What are the realistic chances of getting
> people to
> Japan? Airfares aren't exactly cheap.
>
> R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morooka" <morooka@...>
> To: <stevenklee2000@...>; <tigerhul8@...>;
> <presiden@...>; <secretary@...>;
> <bali ultimate@...>;
> <kfdg@...>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:39 AM
> Subject: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships
>
>
>> Dear Asia & Oceania Flying Disc Associations & Ultimate Players,
>>
>>
>> World Flying Disc Federation(WFDF) is encouraging Asia & Oceania
>> countries
>> to have Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships in 2003(AOUC2003) to
>> develop
>> Ultimate in more Asian & Oceanian countries.  WFDF will not have any
>> sanctioned World Ultimate Championships in 2003.
>> Japan Flying Disc Association(JFDA) has asked Singapore to have
>> AOUC2003,
>> because JFDA hosted World Games 2001.  However, Singapore has tried to
> host
>> AOUC
>> 2003, but there is not enough number of fields in Singapore.  Finally
>> Singapore informed JFDA that they can not organize AOUC2003
>> officially.
>> It's very important to have AOUC2003 to make a chance to join
> International
>> tournament for the Asian & Oceanian countries have never entried World
>> Championships.
>> JFDA will do our best to host AOUC2003 in August.  We have to
>> estimate the
>> budjet as soon as possible. We'd like to ask you the possibility to
>> join
>> AOUC2003.
>> Could you answer our quesions as follows as soon as possible?
>>
>> < 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships - Tentative Plan >
>>
>> Date:  August 8(Fri) - 10(Sun)  or August 15(Fri) - 17(Sun)
>>
>> Place: Akita or Mie Prefecture,  Japan  (Korean Air will offer the
>> cheap
>> flight from your country to Akita via Seoul)
>>
>> <QUESTIONNAIRE>
>> 1. Does your association or team want to join AOUC2003?           YES
>> NO
>>
>>
>> 2. IF "YES", please let us know the min. conditions:
>>
>> (1) Total Amount of Entry, Accomodation, Full Meals &
>> Transportation(in
>> Akita or Mie) /person:
>>
>>           About 50,000yen     About 40,000yen      About 30,000yen
> About
>> 20,000yen   About 10,000yen    Other(
>>   )
>>
>> (2) Other requests
>>  )
>>
>> (3) Division:   OPEN(    ) team(s)                  WOMEN (
>> )team(s)
>> MIXED(     ) team(s)                 MASTERS(      )team(s)
>>
>>
>> 3. Your Contact:
>>
>> (1) Country
>>  )
>> (2) Association or Team Name
>>  )
>> (3) Contact Person
>>  )
>> (4) Address
>>
>> (5) Telephone (
>> (6) Fax. (
>> (7) E-Mail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Please reply as soon as possible (by Nov.17, 2002).
>>
>>
>> Ultimately yours,
>>
>>
>> Fumio Morooka(MORO)
>> WFDF Board Member
>> Vice-President of Japan Flying Disc Association
>> 5-15-21 Fukasawa, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-0081, Japan
>> Tel/Fax.(+81)3-3701-1559
>> e-mail  morooka@...
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: upc-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: upc-help@...
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not
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anything about it. Thank you."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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if you want to

when you up this way next??

and what is cities doing about the whooper... we need to know by the middle
of next week for the cheap tickets...

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Pegler [mailto:Andrew.Pegler@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 11:05
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia
&OceaniaUltimate Championships


we may need to talk
if you guys ain't happy then we need to do something

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:joe@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 10:53
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia &
OceaniaUltimate Championships


DO YOU THINK THAT WE ARE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION??

OR DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT OVER THE WEEKEND?

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lewis-Shell [mailto:nog@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 09:58
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania
Ultimate Championships


What great timing for more info!

I think this should be our international target for 'next year'.  It's
far enough away for people to plan for, and is a genuine international
tournament.  It's also important to support this initiative as it is
the 'official' filler for the worlds that was lost by switching to the
4 year cycle.  Hopefully a 3 day tournament in Japan will be cheaper
than 6 days in Finland, but any idea how much it is likely to cost?

Richard

On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 09:37  AM, Rachel Grindlay wrote:

> This has just arrived. What are the realistic chances of getting
> people to
> Japan? Airfares aren't exactly cheap.
>
> R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morooka" <morooka@...>
> To: <stevenklee2000@...>; <tigerhul8@...>;
> <presiden@...>; <secretary@...>;
> <bali ultimate@...>;
> <kfdg@...>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:39 AM
> Subject: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships
>
>
>> Dear Asia & Oceania Flying Disc Associations & Ultimate Players,
>>
>>
>> World Flying Disc Federation(WFDF) is encouraging Asia & Oceania
>> countries
>> to have Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships in 2003(AOUC2003) to
>> develop
>> Ultimate in more Asian & Oceanian countries.  WFDF will not have any
>> sanctioned World Ultimate Championships in 2003.
>> Japan Flying Disc Association(JFDA) has asked Singapore to have
>> AOUC2003,
>> because JFDA hosted World Games 2001.  However, Singapore has tried to
> host
>> AOUC
>> 2003, but there is not enough number of fields in Singapore.  Finally
>> Singapore informed JFDA that they can not organize AOUC2003
>> officially.
>> It's very important to have AOUC2003 to make a chance to join
> International
>> tournament for the Asian & Oceanian countries have never entried World
>> Championships.
>> JFDA will do our best to host AOUC2003 in August.  We have to
>> estimate the
>> budjet as soon as possible. We'd like to ask you the possibility to
>> join
>> AOUC2003.
>> Could you answer our quesions as follows as soon as possible?
>>
>> < 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships - Tentative Plan >
>>
>> Date:  August 8(Fri) - 10(Sun)  or August 15(Fri) - 17(Sun)
>>
>> Place: Akita or Mie Prefecture,  Japan  (Korean Air will offer the
>> cheap
>> flight from your country to Akita via Seoul)
>>
>> <QUESTIONNAIRE>
>> 1. Does your association or team want to join AOUC2003?           YES
>> NO
>>
>>
>> 2. IF "YES", please let us know the min. conditions:
>>
>> (1) Total Amount of Entry, Accomodation, Full Meals &
>> Transportation(in
>> Akita or Mie) /person:
>>
>>           About 50,000yen     About 40,000yen      About 30,000yen
> About
>> 20,000yen   About 10,000yen    Other(
>>   )
>>
>> (2) Other requests
>>  )
>>
>> (3) Division:   OPEN(    ) team(s)                  WOMEN (
>> )team(s)
>> MIXED(     ) team(s)                 MASTERS(      )team(s)
>>
>>
>> 3. Your Contact:
>>
>> (1) Country
>>  )
>> (2) Association or Team Name
>>  )
>> (3) Contact Person
>>  )
>> (4) Address
>>
>> (5) Telephone (
>> (6) Fax. (
>> (7) E-Mail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Please reply as soon as possible (by Nov.17, 2002).
>>
>>
>> Ultimately yours,
>>
>>
>> Fumio Morooka(MORO)
>> WFDF Board Member
>> Vice-President of Japan Flying Disc Association
>> 5-15-21 Fukasawa, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-0081, Japan
>> Tel/Fax.(+81)3-3701-1559
>> e-mail  morooka@...
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: upc-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: upc-help@...
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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>
>


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it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not
copy or use any part of this communication or disclose
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I have no problems with changing dates as long as
1) tournament venue can be rebooked
2) TD is ok with it
3) nzfda list is given a week to object - I wouldn't want to change it if
people have already booked non-refundable/non-changeable flights.

I would rather not be the one to organise this - any volunteers out there
(ie anyone actually wanting to go to Kaimana and the "national event") for
checking points above?

Justin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Sanders [mailto:dave@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 11:27 AM
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004
>
>
> - Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2003 - (bids close 15 Nov)
> (unfortunately this is also the same weekend as one of our
> tour events... we
> should maybe try to avoid this clash for next year? a small
> number of us
> went to this tournament in 2002 and it was great, would be
> cool to get 2
> full NZ teams there, Open and Womens)
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rachel Grindlay [mailto:rachg@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2002 10:23 p.m.
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004
>
>
> I agree with most of your sentiments/concerns Dave.
>
> I think it is possible to get teams in all divisions. But to
> do so, we (I)
> need to prepare people now, not 6 months before. If certain
> people only want
> to go on a 'top' team then that is there prerogative. If they
> don't make the
> 'top' team (which I presume will be the co-ed team) then they have the
> choice of playing with the open or womens team (should there be enough
> players to form) or not going at all. This is why I am keen
> to make people
> aware of the potential situation now, not 8 months out, so if
> people only
> want to play on the top team they can start putting in the
> hard yards now to
> ensure they do as much as possible to ensure selection.
>
> I agree that getting people to Finland is going to be hard enough (re:
> money/leave from work) without expecting attendance at other
> international
> tournaments. I was not suggesting that attendance at build-up
> events would
> be part of the selection criteria. This is just another
> reason for planning
> for Finland now - so that players can (if they want to) plan
> to expand their
> international experience prior to then. If NZ teams can get
> to Kaimana or
> some other overseas tournament - great! If not, well we need
> to work with
> what we've got.
>
> I am also sceptical about World Disc Games. I don't think
> that our energies
> should be focused on it, if someone wants to organise a kiwi
> team to go then
> good for them. But I don't see that an official NZ team will
> go. I have not
> heard anything more from Japan about the possibility of the
> Pacific Rim
> championships (chasing up on this though).
>
> In my mind the possibilities for teams (or parts of teams) to
> prepare prior
> to Finland are:
>
> Open/Womens Teams
> - Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2003 - (bids close 15 Nov)
> - Australian Nationals April 2003
> - Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2004
> - Australian Nationals April 2004
>
> Co-ed
> - Australian Mixed Nationals - Oct 2003
>
> There may be other events which are also suitable.
>
> Rachel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Sanders [mailto:dave@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 6 November 2002 3:52 p.m.
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004
>
>
> I think we should go to any/all events as long as enough
> people are keen to
> train and capable of representing NZ.  However, it isn't
> always that easy is
> it...
>
> Finland.  Right now I wouldn't think we have enough people
> willing and/or
> able to represent NZ to fill teams in every division, there
> will always be
> some people that would want to go, but only if it is a top
> team.  In which
> case it comes back to what division or divisions are aimed for.
>
> The build-up of other international tournaments is a nice
> idea, however, it
> again becomes tough as there will always be people that for
> some reason or
> another would want to go some of them and not others.  If we
> start putting
> rules in place about having to go to a certain number of build-up
> tournaments or something, then there will always be
> exceptions asked for,
> and that will be hard to deal with.  Our current international player
> numbers do not really suit being able to exclude people
> completely because
> they can't make one of the build-up events.
>
> Sorry to be a bit pessimistic about it all, personally I know
> I'd love to go
> to as many tournaments as possible, especially world class
> tournaments, but
> there is a limit to how many of these you can attend and how
> far into the
> future many people here can plan for.  It was tricky enough
> getting the 2
> teams to WUCC with many people initially entered withdrawing
> for a multitude
> of reasons.
>
> WDG.  Can't really find out much about this, the organiser
> Tom was at WUCC
> trying to convince as many people/teams/countries as possible
> to go, and
> really seemed to put it on a bit thick.  I can't seem to find
> out much about
> what is happening with Ultimate there, and what I have found
> worries me a
> little, such as:
> Under "Registered Ultimate teams" there are only 3.
> http://www.worlddiscgames.com/format_ultimate.htm - talks
> about how it will
> be run... just sounds dodgy to me, what do you lot think?
>
> Sorry if not a lot of this makes sense, just rambling off
> some thoughts...
> Dave S.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
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>
>

- Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2003 - (bids close 15 Nov)
(unfortunately this is also the same weekend as one of our tour events... we
should maybe try to avoid this clash for next year? a small number of us
went to this tournament in 2002 and it was great, would be cool to get 2
full NZ teams there, Open and Womens)




-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Grindlay [mailto:rachg@...]
Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2002 10:23 p.m.
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004


I agree with most of your sentiments/concerns Dave.

I think it is possible to get teams in all divisions. But to do so, we (I)
need to prepare people now, not 6 months before. If certain people only want
to go on a 'top' team then that is there prerogative. If they don't make the
'top' team (which I presume will be the co-ed team) then they have the
choice of playing with the open or womens team (should there be enough
players to form) or not going at all. This is why I am keen to make people
aware of the potential situation now, not 8 months out, so if people only
want to play on the top team they can start putting in the hard yards now to
ensure they do as much as possible to ensure selection.

I agree that getting people to Finland is going to be hard enough (re:
money/leave from work) without expecting attendance at other international
tournaments. I was not suggesting that attendance at build-up events would
be part of the selection criteria. This is just another reason for planning
for Finland now - so that players can (if they want to) plan to expand their
international experience prior to then. If NZ teams can get to Kaimana or
some other overseas tournament - great! If not, well we need to work with
what we've got.

I am also sceptical about World Disc Games. I don't think that our energies
should be focused on it, if someone wants to organise a kiwi team to go then
good for them. But I don't see that an official NZ team will go. I have not
heard anything more from Japan about the possibility of the Pacific Rim
championships (chasing up on this though).

In my mind the possibilities for teams (or parts of teams) to prepare prior
to Finland are:

Open/Womens Teams
- Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2003 - (bids close 15 Nov)
- Australian Nationals April 2003
- Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2004
- Australian Nationals April 2004

Co-ed
- Australian Mixed Nationals - Oct 2003

There may be other events which are also suitable.

Rachel

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Sanders [mailto:dave@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 6 November 2002 3:52 p.m.
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004


I think we should go to any/all events as long as enough people are keen to
train and capable of representing NZ.  However, it isn't always that easy is
it...

Finland.  Right now I wouldn't think we have enough people willing and/or
able to represent NZ to fill teams in every division, there will always be
some people that would want to go, but only if it is a top team.  In which
case it comes back to what division or divisions are aimed for.

The build-up of other international tournaments is a nice idea, however, it
again becomes tough as there will always be people that for some reason or
another would want to go some of them and not others.  If we start putting
rules in place about having to go to a certain number of build-up
tournaments or something, then there will always be exceptions asked for,
and that will be hard to deal with.  Our current international player
numbers do not really suit being able to exclude people completely because
they can't make one of the build-up events.

Sorry to be a bit pessimistic about it all, personally I know I'd love to go
to as many tournaments as possible, especially world class tournaments, but
there is a limit to how many of these you can attend and how far into the
future many people here can plan for.  It was tricky enough getting the 2
teams to WUCC with many people initially entered withdrawing for a multitude
of reasons.

WDG.  Can't really find out much about this, the organiser Tom was at WUCC
trying to convince as many people/teams/countries as possible to go, and
really seemed to put it on a bit thick.  I can't seem to find out much about
what is happening with Ultimate there, and what I have found worries me a
little, such as:
Under "Registered Ultimate teams" there are only 3.
http://www.worlddiscgames.com/format_ultimate.htm - talks about how it will
be run... just sounds dodgy to me, what do you lot think?

Sorry if not a lot of this makes sense, just rambling off some thoughts...
Dave S.


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I agree with Rick that supporting this tournament would be valuable not only
for those who can afford it but also for the pacific region.
And it seems like a decent enough tournament for people to work towards.
It would seem to me that supporting international tournament initiatives is
a very good direction for the upc international committee.

I don't see any need to discuss this over the wknd.  Just put it out there
for comments on cost and desire to attend.

Justin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe [mailto:joe@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 10:53 AM
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania
> Ultimate Championships
>
>
> DO YOU THINK THAT WE ARE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION??
>
> OR DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT OVER THE WEEKEND?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Lewis-Shell [mailto:nog@...]
> Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 09:58
> To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania
> Ultimate Championships
>
>
> What great timing for more info!
>
> I think this should be our international target for 'next
> year'.  It's
> far enough away for people to plan for, and is a genuine
> international
> tournament.  It's also important to support this initiative as it is
> the 'official' filler for the worlds that was lost by
> switching to the
> 4 year cycle.  Hopefully a 3 day tournament in Japan will be cheaper
> than 6 days in Finland, but any idea how much it is likely to cost?
>
> Richard
>
> On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 09:37  AM, Rachel Grindlay wrote:
>
> > This has just arrived. What are the realistic chances of getting
> > people to
> > Japan? Airfares aren't exactly cheap.
> >
> > R
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Morooka" <morooka@...>
> > To: <stevenklee2000@...>; <tigerhul8@...>;
> > <presiden@...>; <secretary@...>;
> > <bali_ultimate@...>;
> > <kfdg@...>
> > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:39 AM
> > Subject: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships
> >
> >
> >> Dear Asia & Oceania Flying Disc Associations & Ultimate Players,
> >>
> >>
> >> World Flying Disc Federation(WFDF) is encouraging Asia & Oceania
> >> countries
> >> to have Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships in 2003(AOUC2003) to
> >> develop
> >> Ultimate in more Asian & Oceanian countries.  WFDF will
> not have any
> >> sanctioned World Ultimate Championships in 2003.
> >> Japan Flying Disc Association(JFDA) has asked Singapore to have
> >> AOUC2003,
> >> because JFDA hosted World Games 2001.  However, Singapore
> has tried to
> > host
> >> AOUC
> >> 2003, but there is not enough number of fields in
> Singapore.  Finally
> >> Singapore informed JFDA that they can not organize AOUC2003
> >> officially.
> >> It's very important to have AOUC2003 to make a chance to join
> > International
> >> tournament for the Asian & Oceanian countries have never
> entried World
> >> Championships.
> >> JFDA will do our best to host AOUC2003 in August.  We have to
> >> estimate the
> >> budjet as soon as possible. We'd like to ask you the
> possibility to
> >> join
> >> AOUC2003.
> >> Could you answer our quesions as follows as soon as possible?
> >>
> >> < 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships - Tentative Plan >
> >>
> >> Date:  August 8(Fri) - 10(Sun)  or August 15(Fri) - 17(Sun)
> >>
> >> Place: Akita or Mie Prefecture,  Japan  (Korean Air will offer the
> >> cheap
> >> flight from your country to Akita via Seoul)
> >>
> >> <QUESTIONNAIRE>
> >> 1. Does your association or team want to join AOUC2003?
>        YES
> >> NO
> >>
> >>
> >> 2. IF "YES", please let us know the min. conditions:
> >>
> >> (1) Total Amount of Entry, Accomodation, Full Meals &
> >> Transportation(in
> >> Akita or Mie) /person:
> >>
> >>           About 50,000yen     About 40,000yen      About 30,000yen
> > About
> >> 20,000yen   About 10,000yen    Other(
>
> >>   )
> >>
> >> (2) Other requests
> >>  )
> >>
> >> (3) Division:   OPEN(    ) team(s)                  WOMEN (
> >> )team(s)
> >> MIXED(     ) team(s)                 MASTERS(      )team(s)
> >>
> >>
> >> 3. Your Contact:
> >>
> >> (1) Country
> >>  )
> >> (2) Association or Team Name
> >>  )
> >> (3) Contact Person
> >>  )
> >> (4) Address
> >>
> >> (5) Telephone (
> >> (6) Fax. (
> >> (7) E-Mail
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> * Please reply as soon as possible (by Nov.17, 2002).
> >>
> >>
> >> Ultimately yours,
> >>
> >>
> >> Fumio Morooka(MORO)
> >> WFDF Board Member
> >> Vice-President of Japan Flying Disc Association
> >> 5-15-21 Fukasawa, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-0081, Japan
> >> Tel/Fax.(+81)3-3701-1559
> >> e-mail  morooka@...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: upc-unsubscribe@...
> > For additional commands, e-mail: upc-help@...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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we may need to talk
if you guys ain't happy then we need to do something

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:joe@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 10:53
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia &
OceaniaUltimate Championships


DO YOU THINK THAT WE ARE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION??

OR DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT OVER THE WEEKEND?

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lewis-Shell [mailto:nog@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 09:58
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania
Ultimate Championships


What great timing for more info!

I think this should be our international target for 'next year'.  It's
far enough away for people to plan for, and is a genuine international
tournament.  It's also important to support this initiative as it is
the 'official' filler for the worlds that was lost by switching to the
4 year cycle.  Hopefully a 3 day tournament in Japan will be cheaper
than 6 days in Finland, but any idea how much it is likely to cost?

Richard

On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 09:37  AM, Rachel Grindlay wrote:

> This has just arrived. What are the realistic chances of getting
> people to
> Japan? Airfares aren't exactly cheap.
>
> R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morooka" <morooka@...>
> To: <stevenklee2000@...>; <tigerhul8@...>;
> <presiden@...>; <secretary@...>;
> <bali ultimate@...>;
> <kfdg@...>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:39 AM
> Subject: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships
>
>
>> Dear Asia & Oceania Flying Disc Associations & Ultimate Players,
>>
>>
>> World Flying Disc Federation(WFDF) is encouraging Asia & Oceania
>> countries
>> to have Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships in 2003(AOUC2003) to
>> develop
>> Ultimate in more Asian & Oceanian countries.  WFDF will not have any
>> sanctioned World Ultimate Championships in 2003.
>> Japan Flying Disc Association(JFDA) has asked Singapore to have
>> AOUC2003,
>> because JFDA hosted World Games 2001.  However, Singapore has tried to
> host
>> AOUC
>> 2003, but there is not enough number of fields in Singapore.  Finally
>> Singapore informed JFDA that they can not organize AOUC2003
>> officially.
>> It's very important to have AOUC2003 to make a chance to join
> International
>> tournament for the Asian & Oceanian countries have never entried World
>> Championships.
>> JFDA will do our best to host AOUC2003 in August.  We have to
>> estimate the
>> budjet as soon as possible. We'd like to ask you the possibility to
>> join
>> AOUC2003.
>> Could you answer our quesions as follows as soon as possible?
>>
>> < 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships - Tentative Plan >
>>
>> Date:  August 8(Fri) - 10(Sun)  or August 15(Fri) - 17(Sun)
>>
>> Place: Akita or Mie Prefecture,  Japan  (Korean Air will offer the
>> cheap
>> flight from your country to Akita via Seoul)
>>
>> <QUESTIONNAIRE>
>> 1. Does your association or team want to join AOUC2003?           YES
>> NO
>>
>>
>> 2. IF "YES", please let us know the min. conditions:
>>
>> (1) Total Amount of Entry, Accomodation, Full Meals &
>> Transportation(in
>> Akita or Mie) /person:
>>
>>           About 50,000yen     About 40,000yen      About 30,000yen
> About
>> 20,000yen   About 10,000yen    Other(
>>   )
>>
>> (2) Other requests
>>  )
>>
>> (3) Division:   OPEN(    ) team(s)                  WOMEN (
>> )team(s)
>> MIXED(     ) team(s)                 MASTERS(      )team(s)
>>
>>
>> 3. Your Contact:
>>
>> (1) Country
>>  )
>> (2) Association or Team Name
>>  )
>> (3) Contact Person
>>  )
>> (4) Address
>>
>> (5) Telephone (
>> (6) Fax. (
>> (7) E-Mail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Please reply as soon as possible (by Nov.17, 2002).
>>
>>
>> Ultimately yours,
>>
>>
>> Fumio Morooka(MORO)
>> WFDF Board Member
>> Vice-President of Japan Flying Disc Association
>> 5-15-21 Fukasawa, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-0081, Japan
>> Tel/Fax.(+81)3-3701-1559
>> e-mail  morooka@...
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: upc-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: upc-help@...
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"This communication, including any attachments, is confidential.
If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read
it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not
copy or use any part of this communication or disclose
anything about it. Thank you."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DO YOU THINK THAT WE ARE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION??

OR DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT OVER THE WEEKEND?

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lewis-Shell [mailto:nog@...]
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 09:58
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [upc-international] FW: [upc] Fw: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania
Ultimate Championships


What great timing for more info!

I think this should be our international target for 'next year'.  It's
far enough away for people to plan for, and is a genuine international
tournament.  It's also important to support this initiative as it is
the 'official' filler for the worlds that was lost by switching to the
4 year cycle.  Hopefully a 3 day tournament in Japan will be cheaper
than 6 days in Finland, but any idea how much it is likely to cost?

Richard

On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 09:37  AM, Rachel Grindlay wrote:

> This has just arrived. What are the realistic chances of getting
> people to
> Japan? Airfares aren't exactly cheap.
>
> R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morooka" <morooka@...>
> To: <stevenklee2000@...>; <tigerhul8@...>;
> <presiden@...>; <secretary@...>;
> <bali_ultimate@...>;
> <kfdg@...>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:39 AM
> Subject: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships
>
>
>> Dear Asia & Oceania Flying Disc Associations & Ultimate Players,
>>
>>
>> World Flying Disc Federation(WFDF) is encouraging Asia & Oceania
>> countries
>> to have Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships in 2003(AOUC2003) to
>> develop
>> Ultimate in more Asian & Oceanian countries.  WFDF will not have any
>> sanctioned World Ultimate Championships in 2003.
>> Japan Flying Disc Association(JFDA) has asked Singapore to have
>> AOUC2003,
>> because JFDA hosted World Games 2001.  However, Singapore has tried to
> host
>> AOUC
>> 2003, but there is not enough number of fields in Singapore.  Finally
>> Singapore informed JFDA that they can not organize AOUC2003
>> officially.
>> It's very important to have AOUC2003 to make a chance to join
> International
>> tournament for the Asian & Oceanian countries have never entried World
>> Championships.
>> JFDA will do our best to host AOUC2003 in August.  We have to
>> estimate the
>> budjet as soon as possible. We'd like to ask you the possibility to
>> join
>> AOUC2003.
>> Could you answer our quesions as follows as soon as possible?
>>
>> < 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships - Tentative Plan >
>>
>> Date:  August 8(Fri) - 10(Sun)  or August 15(Fri) - 17(Sun)
>>
>> Place: Akita or Mie Prefecture,  Japan  (Korean Air will offer the
>> cheap
>> flight from your country to Akita via Seoul)
>>
>> <QUESTIONNAIRE>
>> 1. Does your association or team want to join AOUC2003?           YES
>> NO
>>
>>
>> 2. IF "YES", please let us know the min. conditions:
>>
>> (1) Total Amount of Entry, Accomodation, Full Meals &
>> Transportation(in
>> Akita or Mie) /person:
>>
>>           About 50,000yen     About 40,000yen      About 30,000yen
> About
>> 20,000yen   About 10,000yen    Other(
>>   )
>>
>> (2) Other requests
>>  )
>>
>> (3) Division:   OPEN(    ) team(s)                  WOMEN (
>> )team(s)
>> MIXED(     ) team(s)                 MASTERS(      )team(s)
>>
>>
>> 3. Your Contact:
>>
>> (1) Country
>>  )
>> (2) Association or Team Name
>>  )
>> (3) Contact Person
>>  )
>> (4) Address
>>
>> (5) Telephone (
>> (6) Fax. (
>> (7) E-Mail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Please reply as soon as possible (by Nov.17, 2002).
>>
>>
>> Ultimately yours,
>>
>>
>> Fumio Morooka(MORO)
>> WFDF Board Member
>> Vice-President of Japan Flying Disc Association
>> 5-15-21 Fukasawa, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-0081, Japan
>> Tel/Fax.(+81)3-3701-1559
>> e-mail  morooka@...
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: upc-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: upc-help@...
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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What great timing for more info!

I think this should be our international target for 'next year'.  It's
far enough away for people to plan for, and is a genuine international
tournament.  It's also important to support this initiative as it is
the 'official' filler for the worlds that was lost by switching to the
4 year cycle.  Hopefully a 3 day tournament in Japan will be cheaper
than 6 days in Finland, but any idea how much it is likely to cost?

Richard

On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 09:37  AM, Rachel Grindlay wrote:

> This has just arrived. What are the realistic chances of getting
> people to
> Japan? Airfares aren't exactly cheap.
>
> R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morooka" <morooka@...>
> To: <stevenklee2000@...>; <tigerhul8@...>;
> <presiden@...>; <secretary@...>;
> <bali_ultimate@...>;
> <kfdg@...>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:39 AM
> Subject: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships
>
>
>> Dear Asia & Oceania Flying Disc Associations & Ultimate Players,
>>
>>
>> World Flying Disc Federation(WFDF) is encouraging Asia & Oceania
>> countries
>> to have Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships in 2003(AOUC2003) to
>> develop
>> Ultimate in more Asian & Oceanian countries.  WFDF will not have any
>> sanctioned World Ultimate Championships in 2003.
>> Japan Flying Disc Association(JFDA) has asked Singapore to have
>> AOUC2003,
>> because JFDA hosted World Games 2001.  However, Singapore has tried to
> host
>> AOUC
>> 2003, but there is not enough number of fields in Singapore.  Finally
>> Singapore informed JFDA that they can not organize AOUC2003
>> officially.
>> It's very important to have AOUC2003 to make a chance to join
> International
>> tournament for the Asian & Oceanian countries have never entried World
>> Championships.
>> JFDA will do our best to host AOUC2003 in August.  We have to
>> estimate the
>> budjet as soon as possible. We'd like to ask you the possibility to
>> join
>> AOUC2003.
>> Could you answer our quesions as follows as soon as possible?
>>
>> < 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships - Tentative Plan >
>>
>> Date:  August 8(Fri) - 10(Sun)  or August 15(Fri) - 17(Sun)
>>
>> Place: Akita or Mie Prefecture,  Japan  (Korean Air will offer the
>> cheap
>> flight from your country to Akita via Seoul)
>>
>> <QUESTIONNAIRE>
>> 1. Does your association or team want to join AOUC2003?           YES
>> NO
>>
>>
>> 2. IF "YES", please let us know the min. conditions:
>>
>> (1) Total Amount of Entry, Accomodation, Full Meals &
>> Transportation(in
>> Akita or Mie) /person:
>>
>>           About 50,000yen     About 40,000yen      About 30,000yen
> About
>> 20,000yen   About 10,000yen    Other(
>>   )
>>
>> (2) Other requests
>>  )
>>
>> (3) Division:   OPEN(    ) team(s)                  WOMEN (
>> )team(s)
>> MIXED(     ) team(s)                 MASTERS(      )team(s)
>>
>>
>> 3. Your Contact:
>>
>> (1) Country
>>  )
>> (2) Association or Team Name
>>  )
>> (3) Contact Person
>>  )
>> (4) Address
>>
>> (5) Telephone (
>> (6) Fax. (
>> (7) E-Mail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Please reply as soon as possible (by Nov.17, 2002).
>>
>>
>> Ultimately yours,
>>
>>
>> Fumio Morooka(MORO)
>> WFDF Board Member
>> Vice-President of Japan Flying Disc Association
>> 5-15-21 Fukasawa, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-0081, Japan
>> Tel/Fax.(+81)3-3701-1559
>> e-mail  morooka@...
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: upc-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: upc-help@...
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

This has just arrived. What are the realistic chances of getting people to
Japan? Airfares aren't exactly cheap.

R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Morooka" <morooka@...>
To: <stevenklee2000@...>; <tigerhul8@...>;
<presiden@...>; <secretary@...>; <bali_ultimate@...>;
<kfdg@...>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:39 AM
Subject: 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships


> Dear Asia & Oceania Flying Disc Associations & Ultimate Players,
>
>
> World Flying Disc Federation(WFDF) is encouraging Asia & Oceania countries
> to have Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships in 2003(AOUC2003) to develop
> Ultimate in more Asian & Oceanian countries.  WFDF will not have any
> sanctioned World Ultimate Championships in 2003.
> Japan Flying Disc Association(JFDA) has asked Singapore to have  AOUC2003,
> because JFDA hosted World Games 2001.  However, Singapore has tried to
host
> AOUC
> 2003, but there is not enough number of fields in Singapore.  Finally
> Singapore informed JFDA that they can not organize AOUC2003 officially.
> It's very important to have AOUC2003 to make a chance to join
International
> tournament for the Asian & Oceanian countries have never entried World
> Championships.
> JFDA will do our best to host AOUC2003 in August.  We have to estimate the
> budjet as soon as possible. We'd like to ask you the possibility to join
> AOUC2003.
> Could you answer our quesions as follows as soon as possible?
>
> < 1st WFDF Asia & Oceania Ultimate Championships - Tentative Plan >
>
> Date:  August 8(Fri) - 10(Sun)  or August 15(Fri) - 17(Sun)
>
> Place: Akita or Mie Prefecture,  Japan  (Korean Air will offer the cheap
> flight from your country to Akita via Seoul)
>
> <QUESTIONNAIRE>
> 1. Does your association or team want to join AOUC2003?           YES
> NO
>
>
> 2. IF "YES", please let us know the min. conditions:
>
> (1) Total Amount of Entry, Accomodation, Full Meals & Transportation(in
> Akita or Mie) /person:
>
>           About 50,000yen     About 40,000yen      About 30,000yen
About
> 20,000yen   About 10,000yen    Other(                                   )
>
> (2) Other requests
>  )
>
> (3) Division:   OPEN(    ) team(s)                  WOMEN (     )team(s)
> MIXED(     ) team(s)                 MASTERS(      )team(s)
>
>
> 3. Your Contact:
>
> (1) Country
>  )
> (2) Association or Team Name
>  )
> (3) Contact Person
>  )
> (4) Address
>
> (5) Telephone (
> (6) Fax. (
> (7) E-Mail
>
>
>
>
> * Please reply as soon as possible (by Nov.17, 2002).
>
>
> Ultimately yours,
>
>
> Fumio Morooka(MORO)
> WFDF Board Member
> Vice-President of Japan Flying Disc Association
> 5-15-21 Fukasawa, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-0081, Japan
> Tel/Fax.(+81)3-3701-1559
> e-mail  morooka@...
>
>
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: upc-unsubscribe@...
For additional commands, e-mail: upc-help@...

I agree with most of your sentiments/concerns Dave.

I think it is possible to get teams in all divisions. But to do so, we (I)
need to prepare people now, not 6 months before. If certain people only want
to go on a 'top' team then that is there prerogative. If they don't make the
'top' team (which I presume will be the co-ed team) then they have the
choice of playing with the open or womens team (should there be enough
players to form) or not going at all. This is why I am keen to make people
aware of the potential situation now, not 8 months out, so if people only
want to play on the top team they can start putting in the hard yards now to
ensure they do as much as possible to ensure selection.

I agree that getting people to Finland is going to be hard enough (re:
money/leave from work) without expecting attendance at other international
tournaments. I was not suggesting that attendance at build-up events would
be part of the selection criteria. This is just another reason for planning
for Finland now - so that players can (if they want to) plan to expand their
international experience prior to then. If NZ teams can get to Kaimana or
some other overseas tournament - great! If not, well we need to work with
what we've got.

I am also sceptical about World Disc Games. I don't think that our energies
should be focused on it, if someone wants to organise a kiwi team to go then
good for them. But I don't see that an official NZ team will go. I have not
heard anything more from Japan about the possibility of the Pacific Rim
championships (chasing up on this though).

In my mind the possibilities for teams (or parts of teams) to prepare prior
to Finland are:

Open/Womens Teams
- Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2003 - (bids close 15 Nov)
- Australian Nationals April 2003
- Kaimana Klassic (Hawaii) Feb 2004
- Australian Nationals April 2004

Co-ed
- Australian Mixed Nationals - Oct 2003

There may be other events which are also suitable.

Rachel

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Sanders [mailto:dave@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 6 November 2002 3:52 p.m.
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004


I think we should go to any/all events as long as enough people are keen to
train and capable of representing NZ.  However, it isn't always that easy is
it...

Finland.  Right now I wouldn't think we have enough people willing and/or
able to represent NZ to fill teams in every division, there will always be
some people that would want to go, but only if it is a top team.  In which
case it comes back to what division or divisions are aimed for.

The build-up of other international tournaments is a nice idea, however, it
again becomes tough as there will always be people that for some reason or
another would want to go some of them and not others.  If we start putting
rules in place about having to go to a certain number of build-up
tournaments or something, then there will always be exceptions asked for,
and that will be hard to deal with.  Our current international player
numbers do not really suit being able to exclude people completely because
they can't make one of the build-up events.

Sorry to be a bit pessimistic about it all, personally I know I'd love to go
to as many tournaments as possible, especially world class tournaments, but
there is a limit to how many of these you can attend and how far into the
future many people here can plan for.  It was tricky enough getting the 2
teams to WUCC with many people initially entered withdrawing for a multitude
of reasons.

WDG.  Can't really find out much about this, the organiser Tom was at WUCC
trying to convince as many people/teams/countries as possible to go, and
really seemed to put it on a bit thick.  I can't seem to find out much about
what is happening with Ultimate there, and what I have found worries me a
little, such as:
Under "Registered Ultimate teams" there are only 3.
http://www.worlddiscgames.com/format_ultimate.htm - talks about how it will
be run... just sounds dodgy to me, what do you lot think?

Sorry if not a lot of this makes sense, just rambling off some thoughts...
Dave S.

I think we should go to any/all events as long as enough people are keen to
train and capable of representing NZ.  However, it isn't always that easy is
it...

Finland.  Right now I wouldn't think we have enough people willing and/or
able to represent NZ to fill teams in every division, there will always be
some people that would want to go, but only if it is a top team.  In which
case it comes back to what division or divisions are aimed for.

The build-up of other international tournaments is a nice idea, however, it
again becomes tough as there will always be people that for some reason or
another would want to go some of them and not others.  If we start putting
rules in place about having to go to a certain number of build-up
tournaments or something, then there will always be exceptions asked for,
and that will be hard to deal with.  Our current international player
numbers do not really suit being able to exclude people completely because
they can't make one of the build-up events.

Sorry to be a bit pessimistic about it all, personally I know I'd love to go
to as many tournaments as possible, especially world class tournaments, but
there is a limit to how many of these you can attend and how far into the
future many people here can plan for.  It was tricky enough getting the 2
teams to WUCC with many people initially entered withdrawing for a multitude
of reasons.

WDG.  Can't really find out much about this, the organiser Tom was at WUCC
trying to convince as many people/teams/countries as possible to go, and
really seemed to put it on a bit thick.  I can't seem to find out much about
what is happening with Ultimate there, and what I have found worries me a
little, such as:
Under "Registered Ultimate teams" there are only 3.
http://www.worlddiscgames.com/format_ultimate.htm - talks about how it will
be run... just sounds dodgy to me, what do you lot think?

Sorry if not a lot of this makes sense, just rambling off some thoughts...
Dave S.



-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Grindlay [mailto:rachg@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 6 November 2002 11:33 a.m.
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finland 2004


I'm not thinking about getting expressions of interest at this stage. I am
more thinking about just putting it in people's minds.

I agree that a coordinated build-up would be a good idea though, so perhaps
an agreement on what tournaments fit into the build-up would be useful.

The international calendar so far really only has
- Australian Nationals April 2003 & 2004
- Pacific-Rim Champs??? mid-2003???
- Finland Aug 2004

There is the World Disc Games (http://www.worlddiscgames.com/) being held in
California - however I think we are better off to attend a pacific-rim
champs if it happens - though since there has been no further information
about this perhaps WDG should be considered?

Thoughts?

Rachel

P.S. Incidentally Finland is likely to just be WUC with no guts. My
apologies for all those aspiring guts competitors.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lewis-Shell [mailto:nog@...]
Sent: Monday, 4 November 2002 9:23 p.m.
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [upc-international] Finland 2004


I think it's great to be thinking about Finland this far out -
especially with a possible #2 seeding to defend!  If we're going to ask
for expressions of interest, lets do it for all the international
tournaments leading up to Finland - this should help plan an
international participation policy that leads/builds up to Finland.

At this stage we should definitely aim to send teams in more than just
the mixed division - I think NZ Ultimate is far better off with us
having a weak team in a division than not having a team in a division
at all.

R


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I'm not thinking about getting expressions of interest at this stage. I am
more thinking about just putting it in people's minds.

I agree that a coordinated build-up would be a good idea though, so perhaps
an agreement on what tournaments fit into the build-up would be useful.

The international calendar so far really only has
- Australian Nationals April 2003 & 2004
- Pacific-Rim Champs??? mid-2003???
- Finland Aug 2004

There is the World Disc Games (http://www.worlddiscgames.com/) being held in
California - however I think we are better off to attend a pacific-rim
champs if it happens - though since there has been no further information
about this perhaps WDG should be considered?

Thoughts?

Rachel

P.S. Incidentally Finland is likely to just be WUC with no guts. My
apologies for all those aspiring guts competitors.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lewis-Shell [mailto:nog@...]
Sent: Monday, 4 November 2002 9:23 p.m.
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [upc-international] Finland 2004


I think it's great to be thinking about Finland this far out -
especially with a possible #2 seeding to defend!  If we're going to ask
for expressions of interest, lets do it for all the international
tournaments leading up to Finland - this should help plan an
international participation policy that leads/builds up to Finland.

At this stage we should definitely aim to send teams in more than just
the mixed division - I think NZ Ultimate is far better off with us
having a weak team in a division than not having a team in a division
at all.

R

I think it's great to be thinking about Finland this far out -
especially with a possible #2 seeding to defend!  If we're going to ask
for expressions of interest, lets do it for all the international
tournaments leading up to Finland - this should help plan an
international participation policy that leads/builds up to Finland.

At this stage we should definitely aim to send teams in more than just
the mixed division - I think NZ Ultimate is far better off with us
having a weak team in a division than not having a team in a division
at all.

R

On Thursday, October 31, 2002, at 03:20  PM, Rachel Grindlay wrote:

> It is now about 20 months until WUGC in Finland in 2004. I think that
> now is
> the time to be informing people of some basic details of what may/will
> be
> expected of those wanting to attend.
>
> New Zealand is entitled to send one team in each division (open,
> womens,
> co-ed, masters, juniors(?)). If New Zealand is just to send one co-ed
> team
> then there will be a significant number of players who will not go -
> one
> co-ed team would require only need around 10 men, and 8 women. Is it
> better
> that we have true selections where there are a larger amount of
> players that
> miss out? Or would it be better to try and maximise the number of
> players
> attending the event by trying to get teams for open & womens divisions
> as
> well? If we are realistically going to get enough players for 3 teams
> then
> we need to prepare people now.
>
> I know that the number of teams we send cannot be determined until much
> closer to the time - as players will be unaware of commitments/money
> situations. However, we should be giving people as much lead up time as
> possible to prepare for this event.
>
> I intend to send a general information email to the nz ultimate list
> which
> reads something like this:
>
> The World Ultimate & Guts Championships (WUGC) will be held in Turku,
> Finland in 2004. Tentative dates are 7-15 August. Finland is one of
> the most
> expensive countries in the World to travel in. Estimated costs to
> attend the
> tournament are around: For a NZ based player this would mean saving $X
> a
> week from Nov 2002, $X from Jul 2003, $X from Jan 2004.
>
> New Zealand will have the opportunity to send one team in each division
> offered (open, womens, co-ed). The number of teams to be sent will be
> determined closer to the time when interest in attending is gauged.
> However,
> should only one co-ed team be sent then many players may miss out. Team
> selection will take place at least 6 months prior to the event,
> probably
> further out, so that gives people around 12-14 months before
> selections take
> place. A selection policy has not yet been finalised by the UPC but a
> draft
> policy can be read at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/upc-international/files/
> RG%20Int%20rep%20polic
> y%20proposal%20v2.doc If anyone has any questions/comments about the
> proposed policy or WUGC please contact me or email the international
> representation discussion list upc-international@yahoogroups.com.
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Another suggestion has been that Australian Nationals (as an overseas,
but not an international tournament) not attract an official selection
response, and instead regions/teams are encouraged to send themselves.
See the archives of this list for more information on this suggestion.
With the possibility of the NZ Open being open/womens rather than mixed
the potential to send existing teams is increased.

I would like to see a decision made about an approach to 2003
international tournaments (eg. Oceania Regionals?  World Disc Games?)
before looking at 2003 overseas tournaments (eg. Australian Nationals).
   Perhaps Australian Nationals is better approached as a step toward
these other international tournaments, rather than a destination - it
has been used this way in the past (97?).  Perhaps also the overall
2003 approach is best formulated taking the next Worlds (Finland 2004)
into account.

R

On Thursday, October 31, 2002, at 03:14  PM, Rachel Grindlay wrote:

> The Australian National Ultimate Championships for 2003 will be held
> over
> 25-28 April 2003 in Canberra. It is 6 months until the tournament.
>
> I want to notify people wanting to attend what the selection
> criteria/process will be for teams. Since the draft representation
> policy
> has been parked until we have some further thoughts on regional
> development
> and tournaments I am unsure how to proceed from here.
>
> One suggestion that has been made to me, is that an initial squad is
> formed
> at the first 'tour'* event, and that there is a time slot allocated at
> that
> event, and those following which enables to squad to play one game.
> (i.e. if
> there are 25 men interested in attending Aus Nats then they will play
> a game
> at each tour event, and then from those who are in this squad a team is
> selected). This would depend on their being time available at
> tournaments to
> fit such a game in. Interested players could be required to attend at
> least
> 1 or 2 of these events so that selectors are able to see all candidates
> playing. The problem with this is the timing of the final selections
> may be
> too close to the dates of Aussie Nats. A benefit of this would be that
> the
> players get to actually play some mens/womens ultimate and also get to
> play
> at least a couple of times with their team mates.
>
> [*or should that be the first tournament in the series of tournaments
> which
> were formerly known as the tour.]
>
> Anyway, has anyone got thoughts on this? I see little point having a
> selection policy if it is not used. But more importantly the
> principles of
> the policy are what I think are crucial: "The process used to select
> teams
> for international events is clear and transparent, simple, and
> rationally
> defensible."
>
> Rachel
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Plan to Sell a Home?
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

It is now about 20 months until WUGC in Finland in 2004. I think that now is
the time to be informing people of some basic details of what may/will be
expected of those wanting to attend.

New Zealand is entitled to send one team in each division (open, womens,
co-ed, masters, juniors(?)). If New Zealand is just to send one co-ed team
then there will be a significant number of players who will not go - one
co-ed team would require only need around 10 men, and 8 women. Is it better
that we have true selections where there are a larger amount of players that
miss out? Or would it be better to try and maximise the number of players
attending the event by trying to get teams for open & womens divisions as
well? If we are realistically going to get enough players for 3 teams then
we need to prepare people now.

I know that the number of teams we send cannot be determined until much
closer to the time - as players will be unaware of commitments/money
situations. However, we should be giving people as much lead up time as
possible to prepare for this event.

I intend to send a general information email to the nz ultimate list which
reads something like this:

The World Ultimate & Guts Championships (WUGC) will be held in Turku,
Finland in 2004. Tentative dates are 7-15 August. Finland is one of the most
expensive countries in the World to travel in. Estimated costs to attend the
tournament are around: For a NZ based player this would mean saving $X a
week from Nov 2002, $X from Jul 2003, $X from Jan 2004.

New Zealand will have the opportunity to send one team in each division
offered (open, womens, co-ed). The number of teams to be sent will be
determined closer to the time when interest in attending is gauged. However,
should only one co-ed team be sent then many players may miss out. Team
selection will take place at least 6 months prior to the event, probably
further out, so that gives people around 12-14 months before selections take
place. A selection policy has not yet been finalised by the UPC but a draft
policy can be read at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/upc-international/files/RG%20Int%20rep%20polic
y%20proposal%20v2.doc If anyone has any questions/comments about the
proposed policy or WUGC please contact me or email the international
representation discussion list upc-international@yahoogroups.com.

The Australian National Ultimate Championships for 2003 will be held over
25-28 April 2003 in Canberra. It is 6 months until the tournament.

I want to notify people wanting to attend what the selection
criteria/process will be for teams. Since the draft representation policy
has been parked until we have some further thoughts on regional development
and tournaments I am unsure how to proceed from here.

One suggestion that has been made to me, is that an initial squad is formed
at the first 'tour'* event, and that there is a time slot allocated at that
event, and those following which enables to squad to play one game. (i.e. if
there are 25 men interested in attending Aus Nats then they will play a game
at each tour event, and then from those who are in this squad a team is
selected). This would depend on their being time available at tournaments to
fit such a game in. Interested players could be required to attend at least
1 or 2 of these events so that selectors are able to see all candidates
playing. The problem with this is the timing of the final selections may be
too close to the dates of Aussie Nats. A benefit of this would be that the
players get to actually play some mens/womens ultimate and also get to play
at least a couple of times with their team mates.

[*or should that be the first tournament in the series of tournaments which
were formerly known as the tour.]

Anyway, has anyone got thoughts on this? I see little point having a
selection policy if it is not used. But more importantly the principles of
the policy are what I think are crucial: "The process used to select teams
for international events is clear and transparent, simple, and rationally
defensible."

Rachel

Thanks for your thoughts Rick.

I agree that the timing may be a bit premature for some future events, I
guess I am keen to get something in place before I leave.

I will incorporate your feedback into the current policy and then we can
either pass the policy on the understanding that there is likely to be some
changes in the future or else it can be 'parked' until the regional
development direction is finalised.

As a side note, having discussed my departure with members of the UPC I have
been encouraged to remain in this position unless someone else expresses
interest in it. I am happy to stay on in the role as I feel it can be
carried out effectively via email/internet. If you are interested in taking
over though please contact Richard (nog@...).

Rachel

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lewis-Shell [mailto:nog@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 28 August 2002 2:19 p.m.
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [upc-international] International policy feedback


Here is some long overdue feedback on the international representation
policy document.  (Sorry - it's a bit jumbled)

I think it is a great start and provides a great example of how our policies
can be written. Great work Hayden/Rachel.

The main problem I have with it is its timing.  I appreciate (and admire)
the desire to get it completed, but our international policy is the last in
a chain of policies that starts with our regional development policy,
followed by our national tournament policy and then comes the international
policy.  Both regional development initiatives and national tournament
initiatives need to be reflected in the international policy, and given that
nethier are particularly firm right now, I do not think we can consider this
policy firm/final either.  That's not to say its content/ideas can't be
debated (and in some cases resolved) - and this is happening here which is
great.

I can see benefit in separating this policy into a selection policy, and an
tournament target policy/strategy.  I see these as essentially being
independent - the former is not likely to change much, whereas the latter I
expect will be quite dynamic - planning it all in detail years in advance
might be futile.  Perhaps the selection policy can be finalised first/now,
whereas the targeting strategy is more dependent on our domestic scene so
should wait for feedback from those discussions.

Taking a guess that regional development is likely to be a key long term
goal, I think it important that any international policy embodies that (as
should all UPC policies - if that is in fact such a goal).  So with an eye
to encouraging regional development/growth here are some thoughts on how to
approach overseas tournaments:

I think it is important to make a distinction between international events,
and overseas events.  An overseas event being any event not in NZ.  An
international event being one where international representative teams
(whether clubs, or national selections) compete.  eg. Australian Nationals
and WUC/C are both overseas events, but WUC/C are international events.
(WUC/C meaning WUC or WUCC)

I think the way we approach an overseas event should depend on whether it's
an international event or not.

I think we should be encouraging as many players as possible to participate
in overseas tournaments.  I do not think that selecting teams does this
particularly well, so I think that our selection policy only need get
involved when:
1) we have an international event (eg. WUC/C, Oceania/Asia Champs)
2) the event recognises the NZFDA (eg. WFDF sanctioned events)
(actually does this just boil down to just WFDF sanctioned events?  who else
(other than the WFDF) will care what the NZFDA sanctions?)

If we don't have an international event, then what really is the point of
sending an international rep team to that event?  I am not saying we should
not be sending team(s) to that event, just that it doesn't really make sense
to send an official NZ rep team to an event that isn't an international rep
event.  Instead, let's encourage our domestic teams/clubs to attend overseas
events - esp. in Australia where doing so is the least expensive it gets.
Where regional teams/clubs aren't interested/able to go, then I think the
UPC's involvement should be limited to finding/encouraging someone to manage
(but not select) the team.  If there are more who want to go than will
sensibly fit on a team then we should find/encourage another manager for
another team.  Though ideally the interest/committment level would be
established up front.  But I do not think it is the UPC's place to select
players attending a non-international overseas tournament any more than we
can select players for our own domestic tournaments.

The upcoming Aus Mixed Nats is a fine example of how this can work.  As I
understand there are at least 2 NZ based teams going to this event - both
regional/club based, and neither required/wanted/asked the NZFDA to get
involved.  And why should we?  There may have been a little poking and
prodding from the international coordinator to get poeple thinking about
this event, but there was no control exerted over these teams.  IMO, this is
great, and we should look to this model where possible, rather than looking
to the selection policy (ie. non international events).

Which 'worlds' divisions do we target?  I think this decision really has to
wait to see how our regional development/national tournament discussions pan
out.

Finally here is some specific feedback on the policy document.

I think we should remove references to the Discriber.  It is dead (RIP), or
at least unconscious with no signs of improvement.  There are moves afoot to
replace it with online content, but any requirements to use the Discriber
cannot be met.  Perhaps we need a more generic way of referring to the
communication mechanism that is accepted/used by the UPC and the playing
community?

The policy has processes for appointing selectors, but what about a coach or
manager etc.  I realise it's unlikely to find someone willing/able to
coach/manage without being a player, but it is not impossible and would be
great benefit.  Some of our players are getting old enough that this will
become increasingly likely too.  I think a coach (if there is one) really
ought to be part of any selection panel, which would require a coach being
appointed first, or at least at the same time as the selection panel.

Getting a firm committment from players has always been a problem - I think
the notion of comittment deposits should be included in this policy,
possibly with an indication of their magnitude - eg. up to 1/5 of the
expected total tournament expense.

Those are my thoughts for now.  Thanks again to all those who have
contributed so far.

Richard

Thanks for the email.

I am away from the office from August 27th, 2002 until September 2nd, 2002;
in order to attend an ecotourism conference in Dunedin and a dog sled race
in Wanaka.  If you urgently need to contact me please email:
polarcircus@....  Otherwise I will reply to your email once I return to
the university.

Cheers,
Pat Maher

Doctoral student
Environment, Society & Design Division
Lincoln University

Here is some long overdue feedback on the international representation
policy document.  (Sorry - it's a bit jumbled)

I think it is a great start and provides a great example of how our policies
can be written. Great work Hayden/Rachel.

The main problem I have with it is its timing.  I appreciate (and admire)
the desire to get it completed, but our international policy is the last in
a chain of policies that starts with our regional development policy,
followed by our national tournament policy and then comes the international
policy.  Both regional development initiatives and national tournament
initiatives need to be reflected in the international policy, and given that
nethier are particularly firm right now, I do not think we can consider this
policy firm/final either.  That's not to say its content/ideas can't be
debated (and in some cases resolved) - and this is happening here which is
great.

I can see benefit in separating this policy into a selection policy, and an
tournament target policy/strategy.  I see these as essentially being
independent - the former is not likely to change much, whereas the latter I
expect will be quite dynamic - planning it all in detail years in advance
might be futile.  Perhaps the selection policy can be finalised first/now,
whereas the targeting strategy is more dependent on our domestic scene so
should wait for feedback from those discussions.

Taking a guess that regional development is likely to be a key long term
goal, I think it important that any international policy embodies that (as
should all UPC policies - if that is in fact such a goal).  So with an eye
to encouraging regional development/growth here are some thoughts on how to
approach overseas tournaments:

I think it is important to make a distinction between international events,
and overseas events.  An overseas event being any event not in NZ.  An
international event being one where international representative teams
(whether clubs, or national selections) compete.  eg. Australian Nationals
and WUC/C are both overseas events, but WUC/C are international events.
(WUC/C meaning WUC or WUCC)

I think the way we approach an overseas event should depend on whether it's
an international event or not.

I think we should be encouraging as many players as possible to participate
in overseas tournaments.  I do not think that selecting teams does this
particularly well, so I think that our selection policy only need get
involved when:
1) we have an international event (eg. WUC/C, Oceania/Asia Champs)
2) the event recognises the NZFDA (eg. WFDF sanctioned events)
(actually does this just boil down to just WFDF sanctioned events?  who else
(other than the WFDF) will care what the NZFDA sanctions?)

If we don't have an international event, then what really is the point of
sending an international rep team to that event?  I am not saying we should
not be sending team(s) to that event, just that it doesn't really make sense
to send an official NZ rep team to an event that isn't an international rep
event.  Instead, let's encourage our domestic teams/clubs to attend overseas
events - esp. in Australia where doing so is the least expensive it gets.
Where regional teams/clubs aren't interested/able to go, then I think the
UPC's involvement should be limited to finding/encouraging someone to manage
(but not select) the team.  If there are more who want to go than will
sensibly fit on a team then we should find/encourage another manager for
another team.  Though ideally the interest/committment level would be
established up front.  But I do not think it is the UPC's place to select
players attending a non-international overseas tournament any more than we
can select players for our own domestic tournaments.

The upcoming Aus Mixed Nats is a fine example of how this can work.  As I
understand there are at least 2 NZ based teams going to this event - both
regional/club based, and neither required/wanted/asked the NZFDA to get
involved.  And why should we?  There may have been a little poking and
prodding from the international coordinator to get poeple thinking about
this event, but there was no control exerted over these teams.  IMO, this is
great, and we should look to this model where possible, rather than looking
to the selection policy (ie. non international events).

Which 'worlds' divisions do we target?  I think this decision really has to
wait to see how our regional development/national tournament discussions pan
out.

Finally here is some specific feedback on the policy document.

I think we should remove references to the Discriber.  It is dead (RIP), or
at least unconscious with no signs of improvement.  There are moves afoot to
replace it with online content, but any requirements to use the Discriber
cannot be met.  Perhaps we need a more generic way of referring to the
communication mechanism that is accepted/used by the UPC and the playing
community?

The policy has processes for appointing selectors, but what about a coach or
manager etc.  I realise it's unlikely to find someone willing/able to
coach/manage without being a player, but it is not impossible and would be
great benefit.  Some of our players are getting old enough that this will
become increasingly likely too.  I think a coach (if there is one) really
ought to be part of any selection panel, which would require a coach being
appointed first, or at least at the same time as the selection panel.

Getting a firm committment from players has always been a problem - I think
the notion of comittment deposits should be included in this policy,
possibly with an indication of their magnitude - eg. up to 1/5 of the
expected total tournament expense.

Those are my thoughts for now.  Thanks again to all those who have
contributed so far.

Richard

re: monetary assistance

The point of this section is that all players in a international squad
should all receive the same amount of assistance from the UPC. While the
example below could theoretically happen, I think it is unlikely to.
However, to remove any loopholes the easiest thing is just to remove that
particular example from the policy. So the wording would be:

"It is expected that this money could be used to help pay for entry fees or
playing clothes.  But it may be used for any purpose the UPC deems
appropriate.

The UPC may not provide more financial assistance to any player on a
team than that provided to any other player on the same team."

Problem solved :)
Rachel


-----Original Message-----
From: chem265@... [mailto:chem265@...]
Sent: Friday, 23 August 2002 2:02 p.m.
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [upc-international] Finalising Policy


In response to Justin's second point regarding clubs vs. teams, I think
the relevant part of the WFDF TDM manual is the following:

"A sports club that is a legally recognised entity operating in one
geographic
area and with a membership base large enough to support more than one
competitive team, may enter the tournament with a single team in each
division
of its choice, comprised of players selected from any regularly
competing team
of the club."

So it seems clear that each club may enter only one team in each
division - therefore if a club finished the tour with teams placed 1 and
2 they could still only be allocated one mixed spot at WUCC (although
notably the team they send could consist of any combination of players
from either of their teams 1 and 2).

Rach, I also have a query relating to section 7 of the policy:

"It is expected that this money could be used to help pay for entry
fees, playing clothes, or player travel to training weekends.  But it
may be used for any purpose the UPC deems appropriate.

The UPC may not provide more financial assistance to any player on a
team than that provided to any other player on the same team."

It seems to me that if there was to be a training weekend in chch with
player travel subsidised by the UPC, then under this policy a chch team
member would be entitled to the same subsidy as an Auckland player
travelling down to train with the team. I realise that it is unlikely
that any reasonable person would collect a travel subsidy to train in
their own city (!) but is it wise to word it this way?

Probably not a big deal but let me know what you think.

The policy is relevant and clear otherwise, great job!

Cheers,
Kim


Justin Thirkell wrote:
>
> I too think it looks really good.
>
> A couple of brief questions;
>
> Should we be specifying who/which portfolio in the upc is responsible for
> the following? (Under section 7) Otherwise it is likely to just not
happen.
> "Liase with domestic media before the event, while it is in progress, and
> after its conclusion to build awareness of Ultimate domestically and to
> celebrate the achievements of all international teams."
>
> Also, under 6.1.1 it is unclear what would happen if a club has teams
placed
> 1 and 2 in the mixed ultimate tour.  It seems from your wording that, were
> NZ given 2 places at Worlds that those 2 places would be given to the
clubs
> ranked 1 and 2, not the teams ranked 1 and 2.  If that were the case I
would
> have to strongly disagree with this clause.  Similarly, should "....their
> place will be offered to the next highest ranking club in the tour." be
> changed to read "....their place will be offered to the next highest
ranking
> team in the tour."?
>
> Last comment - the requirement to place highest on the Tour means that any
> club which fails to make all Tour events will mostly likely be uneligible
to
> represent NZ.  Not that I mind but it should be noted that we are
implicitly
> saying that international representation requires teams to attend every
tour
> event but takes no account of the NZ Open.  And I guess if the tour is
> killed off then we'll have to find some other way to rank teams!!
>
> Otherwise well done.
>
> (the other) J
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> upc-international-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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--
Kim van Berkel
Department of Chemistry
University of Canterbury
Private Bag 4800
Christchurch
NEW ZEALAND

E-mail: k.vanberkel@...
Phone: +64-3-3642987 ext. 7455 (work)
+64-3-3570911 (home)
+64-21-1324420 (mobile)



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Realistically we cannot attend all of the large international tournaments,
so we need to consider carefully which ones we want to 'target'.  Factors to
take into account are cost, the standard of competition we are likely to
face, the availability of suitably skilled players, and international
profile.

The introduction of the 4-year cycle which has spread out Worlds events has
opened the door for a regional championship (i.e.. the Asia/Oceania champs
"pacific rim").  These events are likely to be held closer to New Zealand,
and will give us a good opportunity to play against strong international
competition in our own back yard.

There are other options outside of the WFDF cycle (Kaimana Klassic,
Paganello), but given the fact that we can only realistically attend one
non-Australasian event per year (at a stretch), priority should be given to
the events listed in my previous email (WUCC, WUC, Asia/Oceania Champs).

The Worlds tournaments are the most prestigious and competitive events we
can attend, and should be viewed as our long term targets.  Australia
Nationals, Australia Mixed Nationals, and Asia/Oceania Champs should be
viewed as prestigious and competitive events in themselves, and also a good
opportunity to hone our skills for the respective Worlds competitions.

The likelihood of NZ getting an opportunity to play at World Games is slim.
To qualify teams must be entered in open, womens & mixed divisions at WUC,
the mixed team must place highly. Even if we did qualify only 10 players
from each country can compete, making it an opportunity for very few
players.

As with anything the ability to send teams to any of these events is
dependent on the willingness of individuals to foot the cost. However, the
UPC can take an active role in encouraging individuals/teams to focus on
particular events.

Rachel

(thanks to Shane Vuletich as I have borrowed many of his thoughts on these
matter)

Part of my job description requires "Strategic future planning of a schedule
of tournaments for international teams to target". This email identifies
future international events which NZ may send teams to. This will be
followed by an email arguing which tournaments we should target.

2002
October - Australian Mixed Nationals, Sydney

2003
April - Australian Nationals, Canberra
July - World Disc Games, Santa Cruz
Aug/Sept? - Asian/Oceania Regional Championships, Japan or Singapore (to be
confirmed)
October - Australian Mixed Nationals

2004
April - Australian Nationals
July - World Ultimate Championships, Turku, Finland
October - Australian Mixed Nationals

2005
April - Australian Nationals
July - World Games, Germany
October - Australian Mixed Nationals

2006
April - Australian Nationals
? - World Ultimate Club Championships, venue tba
October - Australian Mixed Nationals

1. Responsibility - I thought it was fairly implicit that the International
Coordinator was responsible for ensuring the policy happened. (as per the
UPC guidelines).

2. Clubs/Teams issue - nicely explained Kim

3. The wording suggested by Jacob sounds fine.

4. re: Richard's point about whether there is any point in setting a policy
given the next WUCC isn't till 2006. This policy will also be used for
Asia/Oceania Champs - this is scheduled for next year. I think it is better
to have a policy in place for selection of clubs - even if it never gets
used rather than not have anything in place and find we need to select clubs
to represent NZ.

Perhaps this wording is better:

6.1.1 Process for choosing players

The UPC will identify a tournament or a schedule of tournaments in which
clubs can qualify to represent New Zealand in the Mixed division of any WFDF
sanctioned tournament where team positions are limited. The clubs that place
most highly in that/those tournaments in the summer season immediately
preceding will be entitled to field teams to represent New Zealand in the
mixed division.


Thanks for all the feedback.
Rachel

P.S. Liase can be spelt 'liase' or 'liaise' it all depends on whether you
are American or English.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tapiata, Jacob [mailto:J.Tapiata@...]
Sent: Friday, 23 August 2002 3:09 p.m.
To: 'upc-international@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finalising Policy


Further thoughts from me;

1. Should we be specifying who/which portfolio in the upc is responsible for
the following?

This is already catered for in the UPC Operating guidelines (Appendix 1 -
Job descriptions) which state:

The International Representation Coordinator is responsible for
oFormulating policy on selection for international teams
o Coordinating NZ's attendance at international level
o Strategic future planning of a schedule of tournaments for international
teams to target

If a change of wording is required, bullet point1 above could be amended to
read
"Administering policy on selection for international teams"

2. Clubs/team Issue.
Kim seems to have clarified that nicely.

3. Section 6.1

Perhaps the wording could be changed to:

6.1.1 Process for choosing players

The UPC will identify a tournament or a schedule of tournaments in which
clubs can qualify to represent New Zealand in the Mixed division of the
World Ultimate Club Championships (World Clubs).The clubs that place most
highly in that/those tournaments in the summer season immediately preceeding
will be entitled to field teams to represent New Zealand in the World Clubs
mixed division.

(The rest of the section stays the same).
Food for thought.

JT.


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Hayden should get most of the credit for the policy, I merely forwarded it
to the list with a couple of amendments.

There will be no selected team for Aussie Mixed Nats (as per my email to the
NZ Ultimate List on 24 June). This is a good opportunity for club teams to
compete internationally, and as there is no restriction on the number of
teams allowed to go it is up to clubs to sort out teams.

R

-----Original Message-----
From: Hayden Glass [mailto:hayden@...]
Sent: Friday, 23 August 2002 10:51 a.m.
To: upc-international@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [upc-international] Finalising Policy


my final feedback is just to say that i think it is a fabulous policy.

is there going to be a team selected for aussie mixed nats?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Grindlay [mailto:rachg@...]
Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2002 21:59
To: Upc-International@Yahoogroups. Com
Subject: [upc-international] Finalising Policy


I would like to get the policy that has been developed signed off by the
UPC. I think the policy covers all the key points (I have added something in
referring to WFDF rules). Any final feedback relating to this policy should
be received by Friday 30 August 2002.

Rachel




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