In the few times I've slept without pads I found that making sure the
ground under me had the right shape was the key to decent sleep. The
main thing is a hip divot---kick one out with your heel and then wad
up a decent pillow and you'll get a few good hours.

    ****
Jeff Potter

From: Gilbert Anderson <cyclestore@...>
Date: May 2, 2007 10:32:05 AM EDT
To: "No Reply" <notify-dg-ultralightbiking@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ultralightbiking]  Re: sleeping pad for PBP



Hello Barry,


While I would never want to go on a long brevet without a space blanket
(small weightless, effective) they do make a space bag that would be
drier (from the outside) and much warmer.  My buddy uses a breathable
one that has two lawyers and is perforated with some quilted insulation
for almost all his camping three seasons.  He is tough but we are in
the south.

Even way back in 1983 when I attended my first PBP people  (USA riders)
carried Thermarests sometimes to the smirks or other riders who after
seeing them amazingly self inflate chided a "What do you expect; they
are Americans."

You might try a time honored ultra-light backup to a space blanket and
do what 90% of the Randonneurs do. Travel light, ride briskly and sleep
indoors at the checkpoints that the organizers provide; Free of charge.

Yours in Cycling,

Gilbert Anderson

North Road Bicycle Company
PO Box 840
166 Court Square
Yanceyville, NC 27379
USA

Our newest direct local Yanceyville Area phone is 336-421-4054
Toll Free Research Triangle Area, NC area 919-828-8999
Toll free Nationwide 800-321-5511

email: cyclestore@...

www.northroadbicycle.com    ---->   New Website Improved Daily
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: sleeping pad for PBP
      Posted by: "Dana Kilalps" dalekk@... danakilalps
      Date: Tue May 1, 2007 4:37 pm ((PDT))

<butt creme part snipped>

Now I have a question (for anyone not too grossed out
to have read this far): What is the best ultralight
setup for sleeping on te side of the road when you
juct can't go any further that day? I am thinking
about P-B-P of course. So it has to be light, not too
warm but hopefully rain proof. I was thinking of a
siltarp over Prolite 3/4's with maybe a space blanket
wrapped around - mainly if the ground was wet. We
would just attach the front of the tarp to the tandem
handlebars so it slopes and peg the back end. I know
that the Thermarests sound like overkill, but I have
sufered sleepless nighs even on pad that have goen
flat. Are there any pads that are smaller, lighter AND
more comfortable?

Thanks
Barry in Vancouver

One alternative for a pad is a Balloon Bed.
I haven't tried it, but it sure is small and light.
http://www.balloonbed.com/Index.htm
Dana

I'm a long-time Randonneur and I have some opinions on
this subject! Actually I am pretty lucky, I think,
having only had them once, in a 600 where I didn't
take the time to clean my nether regions before
napping for a couple of hours.

So, yes, I beleive that higiene is a very important
factor. Keep it clean and dry. Now I use two pairs of
padded shorts - one black and the other white. I ride
one color one day and the other the next, then the
first pair INSIDE OUT and alternate like that.
Fortunately Paris-Brest-Paris is only (almost) 4 days
long!

This question came up in our Rando prep event this
year. There was no consensus, but Bag Balm was a
popular choice. On the 300 this weekend, we tried it
for the first time, and it didn't work for me or my
stoker. Later we tried Utter Butter (something like
that) which was much butter, er better. But finally
the stoker switched to good old Lanacaine whch seems
to deaden things pretty well. I used to use Lanacaine
and Penetene (zinc creme) together on the shorts and
that always worked for me although the ride starts out
squishy. There is also a kind of artificial skin
bandage used for burn victims that our most
experienced Rando (6-time PBPer this year) swears by.
I don't have the name of it, but can get it.

Now I have a question (for anyone not too grossed out
to have read this far): What is the best ultralight
setup for sleeping on te side of the road when you
juct can't go any further that day? I am thinking
about P-B-P of course. So it has to be light, not too
warm but hopefully rain proof. I was thinking of a
siltarp over Prolite 3/4's  with maybe a space blanket
wrapped around - mainly if the ground was wet. We
would just attach the front of the tarp to the tandem
handlebars so it slopes and peg the back end. I know
that the Thermarests sound like overkill, but I have
sufered sleepless nighs even on pad that have goen
flat. Are there any pads that are smaller, lighter AND
more comfortable?

Thanks

Barry in Vancouver

--- ultralightbiking@yahoogroups.com wrote:


---------------------------------
   UltralightBiking            UltralightBiking
        Messages In This Digest      (1
Message)

1a.
       Re: Saddle Sores  From:       Gary Blakley

                View All Topics | Create New Topic

               Message
1a.
                        Re: Saddle Sores
Posted by:      "Gary Blakley"
garyblakley@...
      garandpatti                             Sun Apr
29, 2007 5:41 am        (PST)
On Apr 27, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Iuliana and Adrian
Stingaciu wrote:

> Has anyone in this group figured out a way to avoid
or significantly
> diminish raw saddle sores?
> If so, what techniques or gear have you used?
Please include what
> type
> of riding you do (paved or dirt), how long you rode
each day on your
> bike tour, for how many days, and if the method was
effective.

I just ran across this that I think is worth reading:
http://
www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=292172

I find I get one or two sores each year regardless of
what I do.  I
usually just ride through them, the pain gets better
after a few
minutes.  I ride both on and off road and often do
rides up to 8
hours in length.  Along with all the other good advice
for treating
them here are some things I've tried and liked to help
avoid them-
Bag Balm, udder cream as a chamois lube, baby wipes,
two pair of
shorts for long rides, and lowering my saddle
slightly.  My knees
haven't rebelled and it seems to help.

Gary


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On Apr 27, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Iuliana and Adrian Stingaciu wrote:

> Has anyone in this group figured out a way to avoid or significantly
> diminish raw saddle sores?
> If so, what techniques or gear have you used?  Please include what
> type
> of riding you do (paved or dirt), how long you rode each day on your
> bike tour, for how many days, and if the method was effective.

I just ran across this that I think is worth reading:  http://
www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=292172

I find I get one or two sores each year regardless of what I do.  I
usually just ride through them, the pain gets better after a few
minutes.  I ride both on and off road and often do rides up to 8
hours in length.  Along with all the other good advice for treating
them here are some things I've tried and liked to help avoid them-
Bag Balm, udder cream as a chamois lube, baby wipes, two pair of
shorts for long rides, and lowering my saddle slightly.  My knees
haven't rebelled and it seems to help.

Gary

 As a way of "utralighting" I took a month long self contained bike tour. I took a daily record of what I used. First stuff to go was anything I didn't use even once during that month. Next I went on a week long tour. If I didn't use stuff even once that trip I let it go. On the next tours anything I didn't use daily I left behind. From there I figured how to shave weight off what I used. Three big weight savers: the lightest sleeping bag I could still use year round ( 35 - 40 degree mummy). Next I used a "bivy" style tent minus rainfly, and a 8 by 10 tarp, instead of my 7 by 7  tent and fly. Of course I changed all cotton, wool, etc clothes for poly/nylon clothes. Even in winter this gear weighs less than 20 lbs. Tools and etcs weight another 10 lbs max.

 

Pedal plenty

craig   

----- Original Message -----
From: "Iuliana and Adrian Stingaciu" <astingaciu@...>
To: <ultralightbiking@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 3:41 PM
Subject: [ultralightbiking] Re: Saddle Sores


> Has anyone in this group figured out a way to avoid or significantly
> diminish raw saddle sores?
> If so, what techniques or gear have you used?  Please include what type
> of riding you do (paved or dirt), how long you rode each day on your
> bike tour, for how many days, and if the method was effective.
>
> Adrian Stingaciu
>
     Gel saddles were my nemesis but a Brooks Professional saddle was my
answer but no two butts are the same. Basically the correct saddle goes a
long way at preventing saddle sores. My average distance is 45~60 miles a
day on pavement on a touring bike. Bag Balm is the best thing I've ever
found for treating sores. Be sure to wear clean padded cycling shorts
without any underwear. Most all underwear has seams that will really work on
you.

Jim Foreman
jimfore@...
http://www.JimForeman.com

I think I basically answered this question ,as well, strung out through my
replies but ,to sum up, I use the backpacking gear I presently have most of
which is light but not ultralight with an eye on eventually replacing it with
ultralight gear.The way I get the weight down toward ultralight levels is by
making sure everything I take is multi-functional and just not taking alot of
extra clothes etc.If you already have ultralight gear you are comfortable with
by all means go with that for touring.No need to invest in heavy gear for
touring,those that do usually do so to save money and/or for added comfort in
camp since it is generally easier to haul weight on a bike than on your back.

I love camping and always camp while touring usually at a remote "stealth" site
but occasionally at developed but primitive campsites.As others have said one
approach to ultralight touring known as "credit card" touring is to only take
whatever you need for day riding then stay at a hotel/motel/hostel/wherever.This
is the traditional approach to ultralight touring and popularized by the
English.The Germans by contrast popularized taking extremely heavy loads (ie.
"self-contained" and "fully-loaded" touring)while usually camping.

But as an outgrowth of the ultralight backpacking movement in the US we are
seeing ,at present, the beginnings of a merging of the best(imo)of these two
styles (ie "self-contained" but "ultralight" touring).People are (just as you
are asking about)adapting their already purchased ultralight backpacking gear to
touring.Many are finding they can take and desire a few more creature comforts
than they tolerated backpacking.Others take a more Spartan approach pushing the
envelope to see just how little they can get away with taking(allowing the use
of lighter/faster bikes or to go deeper into the back country on more technical
trails).Whatever the approach they are all pretty much pioneers trying new
things taking new approaches and adopting whatever works well for them.As this
is still a very young emerging trend there is not a lot of conventional wisdom
or specialized gear to fall back on so get out there and blaze new trails.

- In ultralightbiking@yahoogroups.com, "David Phillips" <dave_o_1999@...> wrote
>
> Thanks for all the replies.  Upon further reflection, I realize I didn't ask
the question I was
> asking (or something like that).  What I wanted to know was if any of you use
ultralight
> backpacking gear when touring (stoves, tents/tarps/bivys, and so on) and do
you camp while
> touring, rather than staying in a hotel/motel/hostel/wherever.  My fault for
not formulating
> the question correctly.
>

Ok Ill weigh in on this since I have some recent experience. Here in CA
the weather is abnormally nice and Ive been riding a lot. I dont like
washing my shorts after every ride because I feel they are too delicate
and too expensive to be washed so obsessively. I do have 6 pairs of
shorts that I rotate.  More than the cleanliness I think its the hot
weather and not showering after my ride into work and basically sitting
around. For very very sensitive parts, I have had good luck with triple
antibiotic cream (any generic brand) which is very soothing. If its not
very sensitive a spray on antifungal like Tinactin works pretty well but
science help you if you get some alcohol on the sensitive parts, it
stings like nothing you've ever experienced.  Good luck with a sticky
situation.

r

Iuliana and Adrian Stingaciu wrote:
> Has anyone in this group figured out a way to avoid or significantly
> diminish raw saddle sores?
> If so, what techniques or gear have you used?  Please include what type
> of riding you do (paved or dirt), how long you rode each day on your
> bike tour, for how many days, and if the method was effective.
>
> Adrian Stingaciu
>
>

Has anyone in this group figured out a way to avoid or significantly
diminish raw saddle sores?
If so, what techniques or gear have you used?  Please include what type
of riding you do (paved or dirt), how long you rode each day on your
bike tour, for how many days, and if the method was effective.

Adrian Stingaciu

__________________________________________________
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--- In ultralightbiking@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Potter <jeff@...> wrote:

>... My latest fun-groovy-classic set-up is a charmer, I think---
> http://outyourbackdoor.com/images2007/trek.bags.sm.jpg.

Looks alot like the early 80's tourer I use but to actually get to the picture
people will need to drop the last period on the URL.

> One nice thing about compact frame bikes is that their long seatposts
> seem to give a good place to lash something. Does that load location
> get in the way of thighs?

Occassionally (maybe once or twice) I have found that to be a concern while
attaching my sleeping bag to a mtn bike but was easily correctable by attaching
it more to the seat stays and less to the seat post effectively moving it
further back out of the way.

I'd say that this whole list is about bike touring with UL gear and ideas and every mixture and proportion thereof, with tour loads ranging from 5lbs-20lbs resulting. (Rack weight inclusive, baby!) And camping while biking. It's not about credit card touring. No motels need apply.

I personally like both classic touring and UL touring. I go for blends thereof. I use what I already have to get close to UL situations.

My problem is that I like the classic style but I dislike weight.

    Here's the route to lighter weight touring, make panniers like mine and take only what they will hold :-)

 

http://www.jimforeman.com/Stories/homegrown.htm

 

Jim Foreman
jimfore@...
http://www.JimForeman.com

I think we all use ultralight backpacking gear of some sort when doing
ultralight bike touring.  The gear varies from person to person, based
on preference, experience, funds, weather, etc.  Not all of us use
stoves, tents, or sleeping bags when UL backpacking or UL bike touring.
   For example, Raw foodists don't cook their food and don’t need a
stove, while others who want to lower their pack weight bring food that
doesn't require heating.

but it is possible to bring an UL stove.  Same with tents or sleeping
bags.

The idea that ultralight bike touring is nothing more than credit card
touring where you don't bring anything more than you would for a day
ride is false.  Not that there is anything wrong with CC touring and
staying only in hotels.  But I just want to say that UL bike touring is
possible even without the use of hotels, by using the gear and
techniques of UL packpacking.

Adrian
--- David Phillips <dave_o_1999@...> wrote:

> Thanks for all the replies.  Upon further reflection, I realize I
> didn't ask the question I was
> asking (or something like that).  What I wanted to know was if any of
> you use ultralight
> backpacking gear when touring (stoves, tents/tarps/bivys, and so on)
> and do you camp while
> touring, rather than staying in a hotel/motel/hostel/wherever.  My
> fault for not formulating
> the question correctly.
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Phillips" <dave_o_1999@...>
To: <ultralightbiking@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:46 PM
Subject: [ultralightbiking] Re: Bikepacking


> Thanks for all the replies.  Upon further reflection, I realize I didn't
> ask the question I was
> asking (or something like that).  What I wanted to know was if any of you
> use ultralight
> backpacking gear when touring (stoves, tents/tarps/bivys, and so on) and
> do you camp while
> touring, rather than staying in a hotel/motel/hostel/wherever.  My fault
> for not formulating
> the question correctly.
>
     The most accurate answer is, both. Then there those of us who set out
with plans to stay in rented or otherwise rooms when available but take
along minimal shelter and sleeping bag in case we find ourselves without
suitable lodging. A fellow by the name of Mark Boyd, a teacher in Asheville,
NC who tours about two months each summer has hauled a light tent, sleeping
bag and pad many thousand miles but has used them only a few times, most
usually in an emergency situation where he couldn't find lodging. Food of
some sort is usually easier to find than lodging so cooking and eating gear
is seldom taken along as a backup.
     As for myself, I usually set out with plans to either camping or doing
the credit card thing but on occasions I've resorted to a motel when the
weather turns sour.

Jim Foreman

>[  ]  Re: Bikepacking
>
>Posted by: "David Phillips" <mailto:dave_o_1999@...?Subject=
>Re%3A%20Bikepacking>
>
>Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:49 pm (PST)
>
>Thanks for all the replies. Upon further reflection, I realize I
>didn't ask the question I was
>asking (or something like that). What I wanted to know was if any of
>you use ultralight
>backpacking gear when touring (stoves, tents/tarps/bivys, and so on)
>and do you camp while
>touring, rather than staying in a hotel/motel/hostel/wherever. My
>fault for not formulating
>the question correctly.

No worries. We don't need no clear questions, or we take em as we
like. We can riff off of whatever we get.  : )

I'd say that this whole list is about bike touring with UL gear and
ideas and every mixture and proportion thereof, with tour loads
ranging from 5lbs-20lbs resulting. (Rack weight inclusive, baby!) And
camping while biking. It's not about credit card touring. No motels
need apply.

I personally like both classic touring and UL touring. I go for
blends thereof.  I use what I already have to get close to UL
situations.

My problem is that I like the classic style but I dislike weight.

My latest fun-groovy-classic set-up is a charmer, I think---
http://outyourbackdoor.com/images2007/trek.bags.sm.jpg. But I bet the
bags and racks alone/empty add up to a UL load!

I'd like to try to go for a really UL set-up someday---like, a
carbon/ti fixie, just front brake (both levers)---plump sewups maybe,
for a road tour. With a 10-lb load, say (tent/bag/goodies tied to
bike somehow). For total rig weight other than my body of, like, 22
lbs. Ha!

One nice thing about compact frame bikes is that their long seatposts
seem to give a good place to lash something. Does that load location
get in the way of thighs?

--JP


    ****
Jeff Potter
    ****
Out Your Backdoor  ...  http://outyourbackdoor.com
Publisher of authentic, homegrown culture & adventure about bikes,
boats, skis, huntin', fishin', novels, music & more!   with 4
specialty mirror sites   * http://AllBikemag.com
* http://UpNorthmag.com  * http://HooknBullet.com  * http://ULAPRESS.com
4686 Meridian Rd., Williamston MI 48895  ph 800-763-6923

Thanks for all the replies.  Upon further reflection, I realize I didn't ask the
question I was
asking (or something like that).  What I wanted to know was if any of you use
ultralight
backpacking gear when touring (stoves, tents/tarps/bivys, and so on) and do you
camp while
touring, rather than staying in a hotel/motel/hostel/wherever.  My fault for not
formulating
the question correctly.

Hi, All--

I've been a reader of these posts since the list started.   I sent a post a
month or two ago about an old Pletscher rack.  Now I thought I'd share my
thoughts on "One pair of shoes or two."

I've never done off-road bike-touring, but I did a tour a couple of years
ago (if you can call staying at my cousin's place a "tour."   It was a
couple of hundred miles over three days, anyway.)   At that time I wore
Mountain biking shoes, and did not bring "walking-around" shoes.  I walked
around in my cycling shoes.  But now I have decided that on my next tour, I
will bring a pair of "walking-around" shoes.  The goal, of course, is to
have very lightweight, compact shoes for walking around.

I've decided that for my next bike tour, my "walking-around" shoes will be--
prepare yourself, cyclists!
--a kind of shoe that cyclists may never have encountered, but that runners
know well: RACING FLATS.

  You can go to a store that specializes in Running Shoes (e.g. "Marathon
Sports", which has four or five locations in the greater boston area:
www.marathonsports.com)  and you can say "I want "Racing Flats."  They will
bring you a pair of running shoes that are VERY LIGHT.   They aren't robust
enough to give you 300-500 miles of heavy-duty runng, the way other running
shoes willl...but they are very light and very comfortable.  They were
designed for runners to wear during a race...but nothing says you can't wear
them on a bike tour, while you're walking around.  I like the Saucony
"Fastwitch Endurance"....but you might prefer another racing flat.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents for this discussion.  When you tour, bring shoes
you can walk around in comfortably.  And where do you get them?  Go to a
running store, and ask for Racing Flats!

---Ken

--- K&L MAddox <maddox@...> wrote:

> On 4/23/07 7:05 AM, "Gary Blakley"      garyblakley@... wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Those of you who have combined the two disciplines; do you wear
> your
> > backpack while riding and add the bike specific items to racks/bags
> > on the bike or do you carry the pack on the bike too?  I've yet to
> > try my ultra light packs while riding.  It would seem if we keep
> > food, water and all bike tools, etc. on the bike the pack would be
> > fairly comfortable at less than 10 lbs.  If you do carry your pack
> on
> > the rack is it hard to get it to carry well there?   It would seem
> > that it would be hard on the thin fabric and would only be an
> option
> > on mostly smooth surfaces.  I really like the idea of combining
> > hiking and riding trips.  One more question, two pair of shoes
> > (riding and walking) or just one?  It would be hard for me to give
> up
> > my clipless and I haven't found a walking shoe I like for riding
> very
> > much.  I know I probably could get used to it though.
> > -------------------------------

Two years ago after completing the John Muir Trail I took 2 days to
bike over 200 miles back to my car from Whitney Portal to Yosemite
Valley. Rather than complicate matters with hitchhiking or have a
friend waste 2 days to drive out and pick me up.  I used an old Schwinn
road bike (worth $30) that I locked up at the end of the trail.  I had
a rear rack and I used it mostly on road, strapping my backpack
(silnylon) to the rear rack with my nylon hip belt (removable from the
backpack).  The trekking poles and umbrela I strapped to the top tube
of the frame with duct tape.  I didn't have any problem with the
silnylon backpack on the rear rack, there shouldn't be any sharp edges
if it's well built.  I carried water on the bike in 2 water bottle
holders and food on my person.  Granted I had lots of food options in
towns, but this could still work even if no stores existed, by carrying
enough food to get me where I needed to go, and less of the unnecessary
gear.  I used the same hiking shoes for the bike portion as on the
trail, a pair of trail runners.  Since one of the mantras of ultralight
travel is choosing gear that is multifunctional, carrying an extra pair
of shoes would be reduntant gear.  I prefer clipless shoes when biking,
but when you weigh the benefit over the extra weight and bulk you have
to carry, on a backpacking-bike touring trip I much prefer to use
regular shoes with cheap pedals.

Adrian



__________________________________________________
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Those of you who have combined the two disciplines; do you wear your  
backpack while riding and add the bike specific items to racks/bags  
on the bike or do you carry the pack on the bike too?  I've yet to  
try my ultra light packs while riding.  It would seem if we keep  
food, water and all bike tools, etc. on the bike the pack would be  
fairly comfortable at less than 10 lbs.  If you do carry your pack on  
the rack is it hard to get it to carry well there?   It would seem  
that it would be hard on the thin fabric and would only be an option  
on mostly smooth surfaces.  I really like the idea of combining  
hiking and riding trips.  One more question, two pair of shoes  
(riding and walking) or just one?  It would be hard for me to give up  
my clipless and I haven't found a walking shoe I like for riding very  
much.  I know I probably could get used to it though.
-------------------------------
I’m doing road touring mostly, and so use traditional front rack and panniers, with the backpack (a GoLite Breeze—tough material) containing sleeping pad and quilt on the back rack.  It is not difficult to strap the backpack on the rear rack.  

I carry trail runners or sandals to hike (strapped with old inner tubes to the rear rack), and use biking shoes or bike sandals with clipless pedals; I would not like to try to combine shoes.

Ken

With all this talk of bikepacking I thought I'd share our trip from
flagstaff to phoenix on the arizona trail last week.
warning - it is picture heavy

http://upsideout.blogspot.com/2007/04/azt-flagstaff-to-feenix.html

cheers,
yuri

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 ,_._,___

----- Original Message -----

From: Erik Brooks

To: ultralightbiking@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 9:27 AM

Subject: Re: [ultralightbiking] Re: Bikepacking

Hi,
I've been happily lurking on this list for a while, and this is about exactly the type of trip I'd like to try. I'm also a trail runner, and I've got in mind a summer trip where I add a basket like this ( http://www.rivbike.com/node/54 ) to my cross bike and carry in there some running shoes and a pack.  When I reach the cool mtn trails I'll hide the bike in the woods and go for a run. <<<<

    Great idea but do take a good lock to secure your bike to a tree. As I've said many times, "There should be one of three things on your bike at all times; you hand, your butt or a good lock." A cable lock saved my bike one time and it was a good mile from the nearest road.

 

Jim Foreman
jimfore@...
http://www.JimForeman.com

On my mtn bike which I use when most of the riding will be off-road I wear my
backpack.I bungy the tent rolled up in the ridgerest to the handlebars and
attach the sleeping bag to the seat post with cord.Then I put as much
food,water,tools etc either stuffed in the ridgerest,or secured on the top of it
with the bungies or in the stuff sack with the sleeping bag.This is it as far as
gear no rack,etc.

On my touring bike which I use mostly on paved surfaces or smooth dirt roads I
much prefer most if not all weight off my back and I already have a rear rack on
it so prefer to attach most of the gear to the rack.On this bike I will add a
small daypack as well with items I will need to access during the day which will
be bungied on top of everything else in a manner I can easily get to the
contents.

One caveat, is I would classify my gear(tent/pack/sleeping bag) as lightweight
but not ultralight yet.How I keep the weight down is just not take alot of extra
stuff.For example, my backpack is a very small capacity external frame pack so
this right there limits how much extra stuff I can take.I would eventually like
to get an ultralight pack but am concerned about the durability issue you
mention as well as the fact externals actually work well in the Florida heat
where I mostly backpack/bike.

So what I do with the pack on the touring bike is bungy it parallel with the
rack with as many as eight bungies counting keeping those keeping everything
else on top of it in place as well.It does extend over the end some which
doesn't cause problems as long as the bungies stay tight and I make sure to
check this regularly.An arrangement more like this:
http://www.rayjardine.com/adventures/2003-iua/2003-iua-2.shtml
with an ultralight pack would probably be more ideal and something I would
seriously consider for an extended trip.

As far as shoes I use trail runners with a sturdy toe box which work well with
my toe clips allowing me to avoid an extra pair of shoes.

   --- In ultralightbiking@yahoogroups.com, Gary Blakley <garyblakley@...> wrote:
>
> Those of you who have combined the two disciplines; do you wear your
> backpack while riding and add the bike specific items to racks/bags
> on the bike or do you carry the pack on the bike too?  I've yet to
> try my ultra light packs while riding.  It would seem if we keep
> food, water and all bike tools, etc. on the bike the pack would be
> fairly comfortable at less than 10 lbs.  If you do carry your pack on
> the rack is it hard to get it to carry well there?   It would seem
> that it would be hard on the thin fabric and would only be an option
> on mostly smooth surfaces.  I really like the idea of combining
> hiking and riding trips.  One more question, two pair of shoes
> (riding and walking) or just one?  It would be hard for me to give up
> my clipless and I haven't found a walking shoe I like for riding very
> much.  I know I probably could get used to it though.
>
> Gary

   
Has anyone done any bikepacking, which I guess is like camping while touring, or something
like that.  I imagine in the case of ultralight biking, it would be the combination of ultralight/
lightweight backpacking and cycle touring.  I have been on a couple of backpacking trips
myself, and had an average packweight of 10-12 lbs, and wondered if anyone had
combinded the two disciplines.  Of course, coming in as late in the game as I have, there may
have been a zillion threads on this by now.  If so, my apologies.  Thanks.

I think most people use "bikepacking" to refer to bike touring on
wilderness trails versus conventional touring on paved roads where
many still prefer to travel self-contained(ie. "loaded")and camp
whether in campgrounds or more stealthily in  woods,etc. near a
roadway.Some on this list are bikepackers ,some prefer conventional
on-road touring and others like myself do both.Here is a link to some
info on bikepacking:
http://www.adventurecycling.org/features/ultralight.cfm
and you are correct in assuming there is much in the archives of this
group on the subject.Some post their trip reports on the MBR forum:
http://forums.mtbr.com/index.php
usually in the endurance cycling subforum, I believe.


I like to combine bike touring and backpacking and have recently done
so in two different manners.First,bikepacking into the wilderness with
a mtn bike where I attach my tent directly to the handlebars,the
sleeping bag directly to the seat post and wear a small sized
backpack.In February I set out across the South Florida everglades and
back(on the dirt levees)like this and upon reaching Big Cypress Nat'l
Preserve on the west side of the everglades switched to backpacking
mode for an overnighter.Made for a very pleasureable long weekend.

Then,last month,I spent three weeks on my touring bike exploring North
and Central Florida via paved roads and national forest dirt roads.The
  great thing about it was my gear was my backpack and camping gear
attached to the rear rack and my goal was to reach the Ocala and then
Apalachicola N.F.'s where I spent about 8 days of that time
backpacking about 165 miles total.I really like this arrangement of
touring to wilderness areas where I switch back and forth to
backpacking mode and feel it allowed me to keep going the whole time
w/o days off because right when I would start to get burnt out on
one(from consecutive days either hiking 20 plus miles or biking 80
plus miles)I was able to switch to the other and keep going
re-energized.I camped every night(except at the very end where I rode
straight through to get back on time)and the only time at a developed
site was a fairly primitive one in the Apalachicola.N.F.

In fact, I have decided what I would like to do,at some point,is tour
around North America while backpacking various wilderness areas in the
process in similar manner.

   Carl



--- In ultralightbiking@yahoogroups.com, "David Phillips"
<dave_o_1999@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone done any bikepacking, which I guess is like camping while
touring, or something
> like that.  I imagine in the case of ultralight biking, it would be
the combination of ultralight/
> lightweight backpacking and cycle touring.  I have been on a couple
of backpacking trips
> myself, and had an average packweight of 10-12 lbs, and wondered if
anyone had
> combinded the two disciplines.  Of course, coming in as late in the
game as I have, there may
> have been a zillion threads on this by now.  If so, my apologies.
Thanks.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Phillips" <dave_o_1999@...>
To: <ultralightbiking@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: [ultralightbiking] "Bikepacking"


> Has anyone done any bikepacking, which I guess is like camping while
> touring, or something
> like that.  I imagine in the case of ultralight biking, it would be the
> combination of ultralight/
> lightweight backpacking and cycle touring.  I have been on a couple of
> backpacking trips
> myself, and had an average packweight of 10-12 lbs, and wondered if anyone
> had
> combinded the two disciplines.  Of course, coming in as late in the game
> as I have, there may
> have been a zillion threads on this by now.  If so, my apologies.  Thanks.
>
Hi David;

     This is very common in bicycle touring and while most cyclists are well
aware of the penalty of weight, they usually handle it by eliminating
questionable or limited-use items rather than resorting to weight-stupid and
very costly items. The price of most everything goes up exponentially as the
weight goes down.
     There's a group dedicated to bicycle touring and you can find some
stories of my touring/camping in my website.
http://www.phred.org/mailman/options/touring

Jim Foreman
jimfore@...
http://www.JimForeman.com