Didn't Dara Torres credit stretching with helping her swimming performance? I
didn't really take stretching seriously until I reached 45 or so experienced a
couple of running injuries. I do various static stretches and some yoga, as
well, because I feel better all over when I do. I have read studies about
stretching, but I'm going to do what appears to work for ME. :)







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Are there any RATs heading to Ironman Arizona this month?

I want to sign up again for next year. The policy for signing up for MDot races
seems to have changed.  Other than actually going to Arizona and signing up is
it possible to have someone on site after the race sign up for you? If that is
possible was wondering if anyone would be willing to sign me up?

Thanks -Rob

No studies no worries. 
Post workout stretching and occassional isolated stretching makes the 'whole'
feel good.  It is a great break on a warm evening after a tough training week
to throw the yoga mat on the patio and bask in the warmth of the sun, and feel
your muscles stretch and relax.  koombayah.
Almost never stretch before, not enough after, and in the middle I'm your
contrarian.  Not enough veggies, party before the race, I don't mind you
drafting off of me,  I might catch a short break off of you in a race, suck on
a tootsie pop on the marathon leg, pass out in the medical tent, and have a cold
one on the way home!
Rock On.

Scott

 



________________________________
From: Debi Bernardes <bernardes@...>
Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 11:54:37 AM
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you

 
David has started an interesting discussion.

I use stretching (as stated before, active isolated and yoga) generally at
night before I go to bed. I use to help maintain my range of motion. I do
not (nor have I ever) thought it reduced muscle soreness (good nutrition
does this), nor does it make me go faster. It just allows me to continue to
train and race.

What do other RATS use in their normal training program? Stretch or Not?
Why?

Debi

From: trirats@yahoogroups .com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of
Debi Bernardes
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:43 AM
To: 'David Flynn'
Cc: trirats@yahoogroups .com
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you

And the article states just what I said it didn't study - older athletes.
Plus it talks about pre-exercise stretching - which I wholly agree with the
article.

Re-read my post J

From: trirats@yahoogroups .com <mailto:trirats% 40yahoogroups. com>
[mailto:trirats@yahoogroups .com <mailto:trirats% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On
Behalf Of
David Flynn
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:28 AM
To: Debi Bernardes
Cc: trirats@yahoogroups .com <mailto:trirats% 40yahoogroups. com>
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you

Debi - you said:

"That's because there is no money in stretching to make sure really good
studies done. If you could get the drug or insurance companies involved I
bet they would find different results."

I believe you are not really crediting who is actually behind the studies I
quoted here:

The CDC did a study of 361 other stretching studies, plus a separate study
of 2,600 Australian army recruits, then controlled trials in the Aug. 31
issue of the British Medical Journal, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's
University
of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical
School in Madison, the study published in New Scientist magazine, plus this
summation from the CDC:

"It's one of those common practices that doesn't have any science behind
it," says Dr. Julie Gilchrist, an injury-prevention researcher with the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

She was part of a team that combed six decades worth of fitness studies and
found no evidence for the long-standing assumption that pre-exercise
stretching heads off sprains, strains or pains. Nor does it appear to help
you jump higher, run faster or otherwise boost performance in typical
fitness endeavors, according to the CDC study, which appeared last year in
the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise.

Honestly - I am herd pressed to even find ONE study advocating stretching.
Can anyone else find one?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Whenever I spend insufficient time in my schedule stretching, I wind up
injured as I ramp duration or intensity.  I usually try to spend 10-15
minutes on stretching and core strength at the end of each workout.

- Andrea

-----Original Message-----
From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Tine
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 12:19 PM
To: Bernardes
Cc: trirats
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you


Not.  Because I'm lazy.



CC: trirats@yahoogroups.com
From: bernardes@...
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:54:37 -0500
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you





David has started an interesting discussion.

I use stretching (as stated before, active isolated and yoga) generally at
night before I go to bed. I use to help maintain my range of motion. I do
not (nor have I ever) thought it reduced muscle soreness (good nutrition
does this), nor does it make me go faster. It just allows me to continue to
train and race.

What do other RATS use in their normal training program? Stretch or Not?
Why?

Debi

From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Debi Bernardes
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:43 AM
To: 'David Flynn'
Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you

And the article states just what I said it didn't study - older athletes.
Plus it talks about pre-exercise stretching - which I wholly agree with the
article.

Re-read my post J

From: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
David Flynn
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:28 AM
To: Debi Bernardes
Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you

Debi - you said:

"That's because there is no money in stretching to make sure really good
studies done. If you could get the drug or insurance companies involved I
bet they would find different results."

I believe you are not really crediting who is actually behind the studies I
quoted here:

The CDC did a study of 361 other stretching studies, plus a separate study
of 2,600 Australian army recruits, then controlled trials in the Aug. 31
issue of the British Medical Journal, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's
University
of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical
School in Madison, the study published in New Scientist magazine, plus this
summation from the CDC:

"It's one of those common practices that doesn't have any science behind
it," says Dr. Julie Gilchrist, an injury-prevention researcher with the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

She was part of a team that combed six decades worth of fitness studies and
found no evidence for the long-standing assumption that pre-exercise
stretching heads off sprains, strains or pains. Nor does it appear to help
you jump higher, run faster or otherwise boost performance in typical
fitness endeavors, according to the CDC study, which appeared last year in
the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise.

Honestly - I am herd pressed to even find ONE study advocating stretching.
Can anyone else find one?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

I imagine you all know what I am going to say about this.

I love hot yoga.

buhaha

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Nathan Miller <n8mill@...> wrote:

> I HATE stretching.  However, I do agree that it keeps your range of motion
> up (especially needed for runners who end up unable to touch their toes).
>  I
> can't say that I currently do much stretching.  I do the wall stretch and
> stair (ankle) stretch pretty often because they are easy and I seem to have
> to crack my ankle or something during the wall stretch to feel less tight.
> Otherwise my lower calf seems to lock up when I run.  Anyways, in my mind,
> stretching is good like Debi said.  Keeping range of motion allows you to
> be
> more efficient while racing, which makes you go faster.  IMO.
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Debi Bernardes <bernardes@...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > David has started an interesting discussion.
> >
> > I use stretching (as stated before, active isolated and yoga) generally
> at
> > night before I go to bed. I use to help maintain my range of motion. I do
> > not (nor have I ever) thought it reduced muscle soreness (good nutrition
> > does this), nor does it make me go faster. It just allows me to continue
> to
> > train and race.
> >
> > What do other RATS use in their normal training program? Stretch or Not?
> > Why?
> >
> > Debi
> >
> >
> > From: trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
> > trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
> > Debi Bernardes
> > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:43 AM
> > To: 'David Flynn'
> > Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised
> > you
> >
> >
> > And the article states just what I said it didn't study - older athletes.
> > Plus it talks about pre-exercise stretching - which I wholly agree with
> the
> > article.
> >
> > Re-read my post J
> >
> > From: trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> > trirats%40yahoogroups.com <trirats%2540yahoogroups.com>>
> > [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> > trirats%40yahoogroups.com <trirats%2540yahoogroups.com>> ] On
> >
> > Behalf Of
> > David Flynn
> > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:28 AM
> > To: Debi Bernardes
> > Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> > trirats%40yahoogroups.com <trirats%2540yahoogroups.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised
> > you
> >
> > Debi - you said:
> >
> > "That's because there is no money in stretching to make sure really good
> > studies done. If you could get the drug or insurance companies involved I
> > bet they would find different results."
> >
> > I believe you are not really crediting who is actually behind the studies
> I
> > quoted here:
> >
> > The CDC did a study of 361 other stretching studies, plus a separate
> study
> > of 2,600 Australian army recruits, then controlled trials in the Aug. 31
> > issue of the British Medical Journal, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's
> > University
> > of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical
> > School in Madison, the study published in New Scientist magazine, plus
> this
> > summation from the CDC:
> >
> > "It's one of those common practices that doesn't have any science behind
> > it," says Dr. Julie Gilchrist, an injury-prevention researcher with the
> > Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
> >
> > She was part of a team that combed six decades worth of fitness studies
> and
> > found no evidence for the long-standing assumption that pre-exercise
> > stretching heads off sprains, strains or pains. Nor does it appear to
> help
> > you jump higher, run faster or otherwise boost performance in typical
> > fitness endeavors, according to the CDC study, which appeared last year
> in
> > the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise.
> >
> > Honestly - I am herd pressed to even find ONE study advocating
> stretching.
> > Can anyone else find one?
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
~~~~~/\o
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Katie Gage Davison
katiedavison.blogspot.com
snappletriteam.com
trirats.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I HATE stretching.  However, I do agree that it keeps your range of motion
up (especially needed for runners who end up unable to touch their toes).  I
can't say that I currently do much stretching.  I do the wall stretch and
stair (ankle) stretch pretty often because they are easy and I seem to have
to crack my ankle or something during the wall stretch to feel less tight.
Otherwise my lower calf seems to lock up when I run.  Anyways, in my mind,
stretching is good like Debi said.  Keeping range of motion allows you to be
more efficient while racing, which makes you go faster.  IMO.

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Debi Bernardes <bernardes@...> wrote:

>
>
> David has started an interesting discussion.
>
> I use stretching (as stated before, active isolated and yoga) generally at
> night before I go to bed. I use to help maintain my range of motion. I do
> not (nor have I ever) thought it reduced muscle soreness (good nutrition
> does this), nor does it make me go faster. It just allows me to continue to
> train and race.
>
> What do other RATS use in their normal training program? Stretch or Not?
> Why?
>
> Debi
>
>
> From: trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
> trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
> Debi Bernardes
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:43 AM
> To: 'David Flynn'
> Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised
> you
>
>
> And the article states just what I said it didn't study - older athletes.
> Plus it talks about pre-exercise stretching - which I wholly agree with the
> article.
>
> Re-read my post J
>
> From: trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> trirats%40yahoogroups.com <trirats%2540yahoogroups.com>>
> [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> trirats%40yahoogroups.com <trirats%2540yahoogroups.com>> ] On
>
> Behalf Of
> David Flynn
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: Debi Bernardes
> Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com <trirats%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> trirats%40yahoogroups.com <trirats%2540yahoogroups.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised
> you
>
> Debi - you said:
>
> "That's because there is no money in stretching to make sure really good
> studies done. If you could get the drug or insurance companies involved I
> bet they would find different results."
>
> I believe you are not really crediting who is actually behind the studies I
> quoted here:
>
> The CDC did a study of 361 other stretching studies, plus a separate study
> of 2,600 Australian army recruits, then controlled trials in the Aug. 31
> issue of the British Medical Journal, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's
> University
> of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical
> School in Madison, the study published in New Scientist magazine, plus this
> summation from the CDC:
>
> "It's one of those common practices that doesn't have any science behind
> it," says Dr. Julie Gilchrist, an injury-prevention researcher with the
> Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
>
> She was part of a team that combed six decades worth of fitness studies and
> found no evidence for the long-standing assumption that pre-exercise
> stretching heads off sprains, strains or pains. Nor does it appear to help
> you jump higher, run faster or otherwise boost performance in typical
> fitness endeavors, according to the CDC study, which appeared last year in
> the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise.
>
> Honestly - I am herd pressed to even find ONE study advocating stretching.
> Can anyone else find one?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not.  Because I'm lazy.



CC: trirats@yahoogroups.com
From: bernardes@...
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:54:37 -0500
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you





David has started an interesting discussion.

I use stretching (as stated before, active isolated and yoga) generally at
night before I go to bed. I use to help maintain my range of motion. I do
not (nor have I ever) thought it reduced muscle soreness (good nutrition
does this), nor does it make me go faster. It just allows me to continue to
train and race.

What do other RATS use in their normal training program? Stretch or Not?
Why?

Debi

From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Debi Bernardes
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:43 AM
To: 'David Flynn'
Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you

And the article states just what I said it didn't study - older athletes.
Plus it talks about pre-exercise stretching - which I wholly agree with the
article.

Re-read my post J

From: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
David Flynn
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:28 AM
To: Debi Bernardes
Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you

Debi - you said:

"That's because there is no money in stretching to make sure really good
studies done. If you could get the drug or insurance companies involved I
bet they would find different results."

I believe you are not really crediting who is actually behind the studies I
quoted here:

The CDC did a study of 361 other stretching studies, plus a separate study
of 2,600 Australian army recruits, then controlled trials in the Aug. 31
issue of the British Medical Journal, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's
University
of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical
School in Madison, the study published in New Scientist magazine, plus this
summation from the CDC:

"It's one of those common practices that doesn't have any science behind
it," says Dr. Julie Gilchrist, an injury-prevention researcher with the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

She was part of a team that combed six decades worth of fitness studies and
found no evidence for the long-standing assumption that pre-exercise
stretching heads off sprains, strains or pains. Nor does it appear to help
you jump higher, run faster or otherwise boost performance in typical
fitness endeavors, according to the CDC study, which appeared last year in
the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise.

Honestly - I am herd pressed to even find ONE study advocating stretching.
Can anyone else find one?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David has started an interesting discussion.



I use stretching (as stated before, active isolated and yoga) generally at
night before I go to bed.  I use to help maintain my range of motion.  I do
not (nor have I ever) thought it reduced muscle soreness (good nutrition
does this), nor does it make me go faster.  It just allows me to continue to
train and race.



What do other RATS use in their normal training program?  Stretch or Not?
Why?



Debi



From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Debi Bernardes
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:43 AM
To: 'David Flynn'
Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you





And the article states just what I said it didn't study - older athletes.
Plus it talks about pre-exercise stretching - which I wholly agree with the
article.

Re-read my post J

From: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
David Flynn
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:28 AM
To: Debi Bernardes
Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you

Debi - you said:

"That's because there is no money in stretching to make sure really good
studies done. If you could get the drug or insurance companies involved I
bet they would find different results."

I believe you are not really crediting who is actually behind the studies I
quoted here:

The CDC did a study of 361 other stretching studies, plus a separate study
of 2,600 Australian army recruits, then controlled trials in the Aug. 31
issue of the British Medical Journal, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's
University
of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical
School in Madison, the study published in New Scientist magazine, plus this
summation from the CDC:

"It's one of those common practices that doesn't have any science behind
it," says Dr. Julie Gilchrist, an injury-prevention researcher with the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

She was part of a team that combed six decades worth of fitness studies and
found no evidence for the long-standing assumption that pre-exercise
stretching heads off sprains, strains or pains. Nor does it appear to help
you jump higher, run faster or otherwise boost performance in typical
fitness endeavors, according to the CDC study, which appeared last year in
the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise.

Honestly - I am herd pressed to even find ONE study advocating stretching.
Can anyone else find one?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And the article states just what I said it didn't study - older athletes.
Plus it talks about pre-exercise stretching - which I wholly agree with the
article.



Re-read my post J



From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
David Flynn
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:28 AM
To: Debi Bernardes
Cc: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you





Debi - you said:

"That's because there is no money in stretching to make sure really good
studies done. If you could get the drug or insurance companies involved I
bet they would find different results."

I believe you are not really crediting who is actually behind the studies I
quoted here:

The CDC did a study of 361 other stretching studies, plus a separate study
of 2,600 Australian army recruits, then controlled trials in the Aug. 31
issue of the British Medical Journal, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's
University
of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical
School in Madison, the study published in New Scientist magazine, plus this
summation from the CDC:

"It's one of those common practices that doesn't have any science behind
it," says Dr. Julie Gilchrist, an injury-prevention researcher with the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

She was part of a team that combed six decades worth of fitness studies and
found no evidence for the long-standing assumption that pre-exercise
stretching heads off sprains, strains or pains. Nor does it appear to help
you jump higher, run faster or otherwise boost performance in typical
fitness endeavors, according to the CDC study, which appeared last year in
the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise.

Honestly - I am herd pressed to even find ONE study advocating stretching.
Can anyone else find one?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Scott, there are a ton of Aquabike events.  Savageman, Kinetic also more local
races with that option.  And seems a lot of the 70.3 are including it.

--- In trirats@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Gendron" <rggendro@...> wrote:
>
> I meant Chessie man, not cheese man.
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Rich Gendron" <rggendro@...>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:45:29
> To: <scott.weinhold@...>; RATS<trirats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo
>
> Cheese man has a swim only and aqua bike option.  Heard a rumor e00c was the
last year for it.
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Scott H Weinhold" <scott.weinhold@...>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:07:44
> To: <trirats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo
>
> Are there any good races in this area or do most people who can't run just
> do triathlons and not run?  Is there a separate division in triathlons?
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Debi - you said:

"That's because there is no money in stretching to make sure really good
studies done.  If you could get the drug or insurance companies involved I
bet they would find different results."

  I believe you are not really crediting who is actually behind the studies I
quoted here:

The CDC did a study of 361 other stretching studies, plus a separate study
of 2,600 Australian army recruits, then controlled trials in the Aug. 31
issue of the British Medical Journal, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's
University
of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical
School in Madison, the study published in New Scientist magazine, plus this
summation from the CDC:

"It's one of those common practices that doesn't have any science behind
it," says Dr. Julie Gilchrist, an injury-prevention researcher with the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

She was part of a team that combed six decades worth of fitness studies and
found no evidence for the long-standing assumption that pre-exercise
stretching heads off sprains, strains or pains. Nor does it appear to help
you jump higher, run faster or otherwise boost performance in typical
fitness endeavors, according to the CDC study, which appeared last year in
the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise.

Honestly - I am herd pressed to even find ONE study advocating stretching.
Can anyone else find one?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's because there is no money in stretching to make sure really good
studies done.  If you could get the drug or insurance companies involved I
bet they would find different results.

There has not been testing on how simple things like active isolated
stretching, and yoga (and other forms) do prevent injuries.

My question of the studies - who are they focusing on?  30 year olds?

Try telling this to a 45+ competitor who has learned that if they don't
maintain their range of motion they will get injured sure as it snows in
Minnesota.

That is why I promote stretching (not the static crap with the leg on a
chair or pushing against a wall) - to maintain the range of motion that you
were born with.

And in terms of increasing performance?  Personally I think that if you are
injured you are not going to perform, although being healthy and injury free
does mean you can perform.  This is one way of looking at it.

I will agree though that stretching before a workout/race does not help.  It
does not reduce soreness post exercise/race, and it won't re-grow hair.

But it does help you to maintain your given range of motion.  I stretch
either post run (mostly using yoga/active isolated forms) or at night while
watching the tube, and use dynamic warm up drills before exercises or races.

Debi

-----Original Message-----
From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
David Flynn
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:37 PM
To: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Tri RATS] Kevin - here's those stretching links I promised you

Kevin - here's what I promised you last month:

So studies now say stretching may be useless...  Kevin - Your thoughts?

There are too many studies to quote here - but in short, *stretching doesn't
appear to prevent injury, speed recovery from injury, or increase
performance.*  It only increases range of motion - which probably isn't
needed for most people.  In fact - it would likely causing micro tears in
muscle can actually increase the probability of injury.  Trainers all debunk
this by saying "you just have to stretch right".  Well...no one at the CDC
of in the military studies has any idea what "the right way" actually is.
We do know that animals don't stretch - not even cats when they are sharping
their claws.  No primate stretches - not even the tree dwellers.  I realize
there's a lotta people out there quoting other trainers - but here are the
actually studies.

See the CDC study of studies at -
http://walking.about.com/cs/med/a/stretch0304.htm

Also see (Micro tears) - http://www.physorg.com/news166121437.html

And - (Military - broken link is quoted below)  -
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/441042

Also -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/567584.stm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2002208437_stretch16.html

http://saveyourself.ca/articles/stretching.php




   From Medscape Medical News <http://www.medscape.com/news> Value of
Stretching to Prevent Soreness, Injury Questioned

Laurie Barclay, MD

Authors and Disclosures


Information from Industry
   *Assess clinically focused product information on
Medscape.*<http://as.webmd.com/event.ng/Type=click&FlightID=4327&AdID=9002&T
argetID=10288&Values=25,31,46,51,63,77,87,91,102,145,150,192,205,208,221,222
,229,234,236,240,249,297,302,305,306,308,309,312,1469,1963,2019,2183,3173,31
75,3183,3184,3185,3186,3188,3219,3220,3415,3436,3438,3443,6840,7178,11474,13
842,13857,14128,14130,15191&Redirect=http%3a//www.medscape.com/medscapetoday
/infosite?src=0_0_ad_rct>
*Click Here for Product Infosites - Information from
Industry.*<http://as.webmd.com/event.ng/Type=click&FlightID=4327&AdID=9002&T
argetID=10288&Values=25,31,46,51,63,77,87,91,102,145,150,192,205,208,221,222
,229,234,236,240,249,297,302,305,306,308,309,312,1469,1963,2019,2183,3173,31
75,3183,3184,3185,3186,3188,3219,3220,3415,3436,3438,3443,6840,7178,11474,13
842,13857,14128,14130,15191&Redirect=http%3a//www.medscape.com/medscapetoday
/infosite?src=0_0_ad_rct>

Sept. 6, 2002 - Contrary to popular thinking, stretching before or after
exercise does not prevent muscle soreness or muscle injury, according to a
systematic review of controlled trials in the Aug. 31 issue of the British
Medical Journal.

"Stretching before or after exercising does not confer protection from
muscle soreness," write Rob D. Herbert and Michael Gabriel from the
University of Sydney in New South Wales, Australia. "Stretching before
exercising does not seem to confer a practically useful reduction in the
risk of injury, but the generality of this finding needs testing.
Insufficient research has been done with which to determine the effects of
stretching on sporting performance."

From a literature search, the authors identified five randomized or
quasi-randomized studies of moderate quality which reported sufficient data
on the effects of stretching on muscle soreness to be included in the
analysis. Three studies evaluated stretching after exercising, and two
evaluated stretching before exercising. Pooled analysis of data from 77
healthy, young adult subjects suggested that stretching produced small and
statistically insignificant reductions in muscle soreness 24 hours after
exercising, estimated to be only 0.9 mm on a 100 mm scale (95% confidence
interval [CI], -2.6 to 4.4 mm).

"Most athletes will consider effects of this magnitude too small to make
stretching to prevent later muscle soreness worthwhile," the authors write.

Two studies on army recruits in military training showed that stretching
before exercise insignificantly reduced injury risk by 5% (pooled hazard
ratio, 0.95; 95% CI, 0.78-1.16). Because risk of injury in military recruits
is high, approximately 20% over the training period of 12 weeks, a 5%
reduction in relative risk implies a reduction in absolute risk of about 1%.
The authors therefore conclude that the average subject would need to
stretch for 23 years to prevent one injury.

"Although these data imply that the muscle stretching protocol used in these
studies does not appreciably reduce risk of injury in army recruits
undergoing military training, it is not possible to rule out with certainty
a clinically worthwhile effect of other stretch protocols on risk of injury
in other populations," the authors write. "It would be particularly
interesting to determine if more prolonged stretching carried out by
recreational athletes over many months or years can produce meaningful
reductions in risk of injury."

In an accompanying editorial, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's University
of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical
School in Madison, point out that much in sport and exercise medicine is not
supported by research evidence.

"Stretching is long established as one of the fundamental principles in
athletic care.... Sport is rife with pseudoscience, and it is difficult to
disentangle the evangelical enthusiasm of the locker room from research
evidence," they write. Other unanswered questions about musculoskeletal
injury include the value of ice, compression, and elevation, as well as the
optimal frequency and duration of these treatments.

"Much of sport and exercise medicine and the management of musculoskeletal
injury has developed empirically, with little research evidence," they
conclude. "Some of the basic principles of caring for acute injuries of the
soft tissues have never been questioned, yet there is often little evidence
to support common practice."

*BMJ.* 2002;325:451-452, 468-470

*Reviewed by Gary D. Vogin, MD*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

It's actually for my wife.  She just found out that she needs surgery to
repair a fistula in her inner ear.  She won't be able to run for the rest of
her life and she was just starting get into triathlon.  It hit her pretty
hard so I told her that I will run for her as a relay but also thought the
aquavelo would be another option.



My knees also hurt J  They keep taking turns!



Scott





From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Rich Gendron
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 8:35 AM
To: scott.weinhold@...; RATS
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo





BB decoder ring - 2009 - why can't you run ? Knees ?
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Scott H Weinhold" <scott.weinhold@...
<mailto:scott.weinhold%40verizon.net> >
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:28:04
To: <rggendro@... <mailto:rggendro%40gmail.com> >;
'RATS'<trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

J I was stuck calculating what year e00c is.



Cheers,



Scott



I hate typing on my PDA!



From: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Rich Gendron
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 7:47 AM
To: rggendro@... <mailto:rggendro%40gmail.com> ;
scott.weinhold@... <mailto:scott.weinhold%40verizon.net> ; RATS
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo





I meant Chessie man, not cheese man.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Rich Gendron" <rggendro@... <mailto:rggendro%40gmail.com>
<mailto:rggendro%40gmail.com> >
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:45:29
To: <scott.weinhold@... <mailto:scott.weinhold%40verizon.net>
<mailto:scott.weinhold%40verizon.net> >;
RATS<trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

Cheese man has a swim only and aqua bike option. Heard a rumor e00c was the
last year for it.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Scott H Weinhold" <scott.weinhold@...
<mailto:scott.weinhold%40verizon.net>
<mailto:scott.weinhold%40verizon.net> >
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:07:44
To: <trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

Are there any good races in this area or do most people who can't run just
do triathlons and not run? Is there a separate division in triathlons?

Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BB decoder ring - 2009 - why can't you run ?  Knees ?
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Scott H Weinhold" <scott.weinhold@...>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:28:04
To: <rggendro@...>; 'RATS'<trirats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

J  I was stuck calculating what year e00c is.



Cheers,



Scott



I hate typing on my PDA!



From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Rich Gendron
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 7:47 AM
To: rggendro@...; scott.weinhold@...; RATS
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo





I meant Chessie man, not cheese man.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Rich Gendron" <rggendro@... <mailto:rggendro%40gmail.com> >
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:45:29
To: <scott.weinhold@... <mailto:scott.weinhold%40verizon.net> >;
RATS<trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

Cheese man has a swim only and aqua bike option. Heard a rumor e00c was the
last year for it.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Scott H Weinhold" <scott.weinhold@...
<mailto:scott.weinhold%40verizon.net> >
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:07:44
To: <trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

Are there any good races in this area or do most people who can't run just
do triathlons and not run? Is there a separate division in triathlons?

Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

J  I was stuck calculating what year e00c is.



Cheers,



Scott



I hate typing on my PDA!



From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Rich Gendron
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 7:47 AM
To: rggendro@...; scott.weinhold@...; RATS
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo





I meant Chessie man, not cheese man.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Rich Gendron" <rggendro@... <mailto:rggendro%40gmail.com> >
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:45:29
To: <scott.weinhold@... <mailto:scott.weinhold%40verizon.net> >;
RATS<trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

Cheese man has a swim only and aqua bike option. Heard a rumor e00c was the
last year for it.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Scott H Weinhold" <scott.weinhold@...
<mailto:scott.weinhold%40verizon.net> >
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:07:44
To: <trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

Are there any good races in this area or do most people who can't run just
do triathlons and not run? Is there a separate division in triathlons?

Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Scott, there are a ton of Aquabike events.  Savageman, Kinetic also more local
races with that option.  And seems a lot of the 70.3 are including it.

--- In trirats@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Gendron" <rggendro@...> wrote:
>
> I meant Chessie man, not cheese man.
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Rich Gendron" <rggendro@...>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:45:29
> To: <scott.weinhold@...>; RATS<trirats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo
>
> Cheese man has a swim only and aqua bike option.  Heard a rumor e00c was the
last year for it.
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Scott H Weinhold" <scott.weinhold@...>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:07:44
> To: <trirats@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo
>
> Are there any good races in this area or do most people who can't run just
> do triathlons and not run?  Is there a separate division in triathlons?
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Kevin - here's what I promised you last month:

So studies now say stretching may be useless...  Kevin - Your thoughts?

There are too many studies to quote here - but in short, *stretching doesn't
appear to prevent injury, speed recovery from injury, or increase
performance.*  It only increases range of motion - which probably isn't
needed for most people.  In fact - it would likely causing micro tears in
muscle can actually increase the probability of injury.  Trainers all debunk
this by saying "you just have to stretch right".  Well...no one at the CDC
of in the military studies has any idea what "the right way" actually is.
We do know that animals don't stretch - not even cats when they are sharping
their claws.  No primate stretches - not even the tree dwellers.  I realize
there's a lotta people out there quoting other trainers - but here are the
actually studies.

See the CDC study of studies at -
http://walking.about.com/cs/med/a/stretch0304.htm

Also see (Micro tears) - http://www.physorg.com/news166121437.html

And - (Military - broken link is quoted below)  -
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/441042

Also -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/567584.stm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2002208437_stretch16.html

http://saveyourself.ca/articles/stretching.php




   From Medscape Medical News <http://www.medscape.com/news> Value of
Stretching to Prevent Soreness, Injury Questioned

Laurie Barclay, MD

Authors and Disclosures


Information from Industry
   *Assess clinically focused product information on
Medscape.*<http://as.webmd.com/event.ng/Type=click&FlightID=4327&AdID=9002&Targe\
tID=10288&Values=25,31,46,51,63,77,87,91,102,145,150,192,205,208,221,222,229,234\
,236,240,249,297,302,305,306,308,309,312,1469,1963,2019,2183,3173,3175,3183,3184\
,3185,3186,3188,3219,3220,3415,3436,3438,3443,6840,7178,11474,13842,13857,14128,\
14130,15191&Redirect=http%3a//www.medscape.com/medscapetoday/infosite?src=0_0_ad\
_rct>
*Click Here for Product Infosites – Information from
Industry.*<http://as.webmd.com/event.ng/Type=click&FlightID=4327&AdID=9002&Targe\
tID=10288&Values=25,31,46,51,63,77,87,91,102,145,150,192,205,208,221,222,229,234\
,236,240,249,297,302,305,306,308,309,312,1469,1963,2019,2183,3173,3175,3183,3184\
,3185,3186,3188,3219,3220,3415,3436,3438,3443,6840,7178,11474,13842,13857,14128,\
14130,15191&Redirect=http%3a//www.medscape.com/medscapetoday/infosite?src=0_0_ad\
_rct>

Sept. 6, 2002 — Contrary to popular thinking, stretching before or after
exercise does not prevent muscle soreness or muscle injury, according to a
systematic review of controlled trials in the Aug. 31 issue of the British
Medical Journal.

"Stretching before or after exercising does not confer protection from
muscle soreness," write Rob D. Herbert and Michael Gabriel from the
University of Sydney in New South Wales, Australia. "Stretching before
exercising does not seem to confer a practically useful reduction in the
risk of injury, but the generality of this finding needs testing.
Insufficient research has been done with which to determine the effects of
stretching on sporting performance."

From a literature search, the authors identified five randomized or
quasi-randomized studies of moderate quality which reported sufficient data
on the effects of stretching on muscle soreness to be included in the
analysis. Three studies evaluated stretching after exercising, and two
evaluated stretching before exercising. Pooled analysis of data from 77
healthy, young adult subjects suggested that stretching produced small and
statistically insignificant reductions in muscle soreness 24 hours after
exercising, estimated to be only 0.9 mm on a 100 mm scale (95% confidence
interval [CI], -2.6 to 4.4 mm).

"Most athletes will consider effects of this magnitude too small to make
stretching to prevent later muscle soreness worthwhile," the authors write.

Two studies on army recruits in military training showed that stretching
before exercise insignificantly reduced injury risk by 5% (pooled hazard
ratio, 0.95; 95% CI, 0.78-1.16). Because risk of injury in military recruits
is high, approximately 20% over the training period of 12 weeks, a 5%
reduction in relative risk implies a reduction in absolute risk of about 1%.
The authors therefore conclude that the average subject would need to
stretch for 23 years to prevent one injury.

"Although these data imply that the muscle stretching protocol used in these
studies does not appreciably reduce risk of injury in army recruits
undergoing military training, it is not possible to rule out with certainty
a clinically worthwhile effect of other stretch protocols on risk of injury
in other populations," the authors write. "It would be particularly
interesting to determine if more prolonged stretching carried out by
recreational athletes over many months or years can produce meaningful
reductions in risk of injury."

In an accompanying editorial, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's University
of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical
School in Madison, point out that much in sport and exercise medicine is not
supported by research evidence.

"Stretching is long established as one of the fundamental principles in
athletic care.... Sport is rife with pseudoscience, and it is difficult to
disentangle the evangelical enthusiasm of the locker room from research
evidence," they write. Other unanswered questions about musculoskeletal
injury include the value of ice, compression, and elevation, as well as the
optimal frequency and duration of these treatments.

"Much of sport and exercise medicine and the management of musculoskeletal
injury has developed empirically, with little research evidence," they
conclude. "Some of the basic principles of caring for acute injuries of the
soft tissues have never been questioned, yet there is often little evidence
to support common practice."

*BMJ.* 2002;325:451-452, 468-470

*Reviewed by Gary D. Vogin, MD*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I meant Chessie man, not cheese man.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Rich Gendron" <rggendro@...>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:45:29
To: <scott.weinhold@...>; RATS<trirats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

Cheese man has a swim only and aqua bike option.  Heard a rumor e00c was the
last year for it.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Scott H Weinhold" <scott.weinhold@...>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:07:44
To: <trirats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

Are there any good races in this area or do most people who can't run just
do triathlons and not run?  Is there a separate division in triathlons?



Scott





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cheese man has a swim only and aqua bike option.  Heard a rumor e00c was the
last year for it.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Scott H Weinhold" <scott.weinhold@...>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:07:44
To: <trirats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo

Are there any good races in this area or do most people who can't run just
do triathlons and not run?  Is there a separate division in triathlons?



Scott





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eagleman in June has a half-iron distance Aquavelo.



Chesapeakeman in September has an iron-distance Aquavelo.



Have fun!
Melissa



To: trirats@yahoogroups.com
From: scott.weinhold@...
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:07:44 -0500
Subject: [Tri RATS] aquabike or aquavelo





Are there any good races in this area or do most people who can't run just
do triathlons and not run? Is there a separate division in triathlons?

Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear friends,

Facilitated by pro triathlete and sub 9-hour finisher David Glover and 2 other
USAT-certified Triathlon coaches who have all qualified for and race in Kona,
we're offering a MID-ATLANTIC IRONMAN CAMP at SHERANDO LAKE, VA on May 14-16,
2010.

The camp is designed for both the first time Ironman athlete and the seasoned
Ironman veteran and will provide you with the expert knowledge and practical
skills to improve your performance in an Ironman triathlon.  Camp runs for Fri @
10 AM through Sun @ 2 PM and includes Ironman specific workouts in all three
events.

Timing is perfect for any athletes training for summer Ironman races like Coeur
d'Alene, Lake Placid, Ironman Germany or Vineman.

Location: The camp will be headquartered at scenic Sherando Lake, Virginia near
Waynesboro (adjacent to both the southern entrance of Skyline Drive and the
northern entrance to the Blue Ridge Parkway).  It's a 2.5 hour drive from
Reston.

Cost: Only $345 if you pay in full or reserve your spot with a $100 deposit by
12/31/09!  Regular price is $395. Includes all meals, seminars and a camping
spot at our group campground.

Attendance is limited to only 20 participants so sign up now to reserve your
spot!

More information to register: www.enduranceworks.net then click on "Camps" in
the menu bar.  Please contact me with any questions: david@....

Best regards,

David Glover
Email: david@...
Web: enduranceworks.net

Hi Tom,

Another great Ironman race usually the weekend after Lake Placid is the (Full)
Vineman (www.vineman.com) in Santa Rosa, CA.  Vineman just celebrated its 20th
anniversary this year - it's the oldest Ironman race in the continental U.S. -
and offers the full 140.6 Ironman distance without having to sign up a year in
advance.

I've done the race 6x and keep going back because of the venue (Sonoma County =
wine country) and the overall experience.

Cheers,
David Glover
Web: enduranceworks.net

--- In trirats@yahoogroups.com, Tom Barbieri <tom.barbieri@...> wrote:
>
> Hey RATs -
>
> I am doing some long-term planning. Included is IM Lake Placid in 2011. I have
heard that signing up the day after the event for the next year, on-location is
preferred. Is there an advantage to doing this over signing up on-line? Is it
difficult to sign-up on-line?
>
> I volunteered at the 2000 & 2001 races, but did investigate sign-up
procedures. That distance was not even "a glimmer in my eye" at the time. From
experience, can anyone share any secrets on how I should plan on signing up for
this high-demand event?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tom Barbieri
>
> 703-657-9329 Cell
> 703-391-6064 Home
>
> tom.barbieri@...
>

Are there any good races in this area or do most people who can't run just
do triathlons and not run?  Is there a separate division in triathlons?



Scott





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You can also consider the community fund slot.  I was unable to be there to
volunteer and get in line so my only option turned out to be the community
fund slot.  Frankly, it turned out cheaper for me than volunteering would
have been.  If your company or spouses' company does a charitable donation
match then they will cover half the fee.  Then, if you consider the tax
deduction you end up spending less than the travel, food, and lodging would
cost you to go up there for the weekend to volunteer.



I like to volunteer just for the sake of volunteering so I'm not suggesting
that it's a bad thing; I'm just suggesting that if you have no other options
the community fund slot can be a good option, and potentially an even lower
cost option than volunteering to get a slot.  It also has the benefit of
being transferable to another race should something come up that would keep
you from being able to participate.



Scott





From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Erik Melis
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:44 PM
To: 'Tom Barbieri'; trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Lake Placid





Tom,

After last year's race, which my wife and I did, the demand for on-site
registration for the 2009 race was so great that there was no on-line
registration for the race at all. My recommendation if you want the best
shot at being able to get into the race in 2011 is to be a volunteer at the
2010 race since volunteers get priority chance at on-site registration over
the general public.

Good luck,

Erik

-----Original Message-----
From: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Tom Barbieri
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:26 PM
To: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Tri RATS] IM Lake Placid

Hey RATs -

I am doing some long-term planning. Included is IM Lake Placid in 2011. I
have heard that signing up the day after the event for the next year,
on-location is preferred. Is there an advantage to doing this over signing
up on-line? Is it difficult to sign-up on-line?

I volunteered at the 2000 & 2001 races, but did investigate sign-up
procedures. That distance was not even "a glimmer in my eye" at the time.
From experience, can anyone share any secrets on how I should plan on
signing up for this high-demand event?

Thanks!

Tom Barbieri

703-657-9329 Cell
703-391-6064 Home

tom.barbieri@... <mailto:tom.barbieri%40me.com>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,

After last year's race, which my wife and I did, the demand for on-site
registration for the 2009 race was so great that there was no on-line
registration for the race at all.  My recommendation if you want the best
shot at being able to get into the race in 2011 is to be a volunteer at the
2010 race since volunteers get priority chance at on-site registration over
the general public.

Good luck,

Erik


-----Original Message-----
From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Tom Barbieri
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:26 PM
To: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Tri RATS] IM Lake Placid

Hey RATs -

I am doing some long-term planning. Included is IM Lake Placid in 2011. I
have heard that signing up the day after the event for the next year,
on-location is preferred. Is there an advantage to doing this over signing
up on-line? Is it difficult to sign-up on-line?

I volunteered at the 2000 & 2001 races, but did investigate sign-up
procedures. That distance was not even "a glimmer in my eye" at the time.
From experience, can anyone share any secrets on how I should plan on
signing up for this high-demand event?

Thanks!

Tom Barbieri

703-657-9329 Cell
703-391-6064 Home

tom.barbieri@...


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hey RATs -

I am doing some long-term planning. Included is IM Lake Placid in 2011. I have
heard that signing up the day after the event for the next year, on-location is
preferred. Is there an advantage to doing this over signing up on-line? Is it
difficult to sign-up on-line?

I volunteered at the 2000 & 2001 races, but did investigate sign-up procedures.
That distance was not even "a glimmer in my eye" at the time. From experience,
can anyone share any secrets on how I should plan on signing up for this
high-demand event?

Thanks!

Tom Barbieri

703-657-9329 Cell
703-391-6064 Home

tom.barbieri@...

<http://www.ironmanstgeorge.com/>



Date: March 4 to March 7, 2010

Location:  St. George, Utah

Race Focus:  Ironman St. George (or other IM races for Spring/Summer of
2010)

Coaches:  USAT Expert Level 3 Coach, Graham Wilson, and USAT Level 2 Coach
Debi Bernardes

Cost:  $495 (single) to include:  Pool access, shared hotel room, breakfast,
dinner (no alcohol), and sag support



Preliminary Itinerary:

Thursday (Day 1): For those arriving by noon there will be a short ride on
the course to see the start and finish.  In evening there will be a welcome
for all and presentation on IM Nutrition.



Friday (Day 2): Bike to pool, then a coached endurance swim of 4-5000
meters, but each swimmer will be pulled to the coaching lane a few times
throughout for stroke analysis and correction as needed.  From there we will
bike back to the hotel post swim.  In afternoon an easy distance run (TBD).
Evening presentation will be focused on IM build and preparation phase of
training.



Saturday (Day 3):  Ride the IM St. George bike course - 112 miles - optional
transition run for 20 minutes post ride.  Evening presentation will be on
Race Day strategies, etc.



Sunday (Day 4):  Long run of one loop of run course.  At 11:30 final
words/topic, and at noon the camp is over for departure.



For more information and camp flyer contact me or Graham Wilson
<mailto:graham@...> .

  <http://www.ucandoitcoach.us/> UCANDOIT-Finalsmall

Debi Bernardes

USAT Level 2 Coach

USAC Level 3 Coach

8385 Tomahawk Drive

King George, VA 22485

(540) 709-1484





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone have experience with the expresso bike machines in the gyms
lately?

See - http://www.ifholdings.com/index.htm

They are a full out video bike trainer - all in one - with courses, varying
load and wattage.   They seem to be cropping up in every high end gym in
town.

Is there a database for wattage outputs etc?  I held 286 watts average for
20.1 miles - and am wondering how that fairs in the pack?
Anyone else try these bikes?

David


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Racer: Brad Payne
Race: OBX Marathon
Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009
Location: Kill Devil Hills, NC
Race Type: Run - Marathon
Age Group: Male 40 - 44
Time: 4:18:41
Overall Place: 692 / 1816
Age Group Place: 71 / 154
URL: http://www.trirats.net/view_result.php?racerid=2666
Comment: 41 Minute PR!

--------------
Race Report:

Since I’m writing the first race report for this race I’ll devote a little
extra space to describe the overall event.  Folks looking for a fall
marathon that is flat and with some local color should seriously consider
this race.

Goal: Having finished a marathon six years ago, I’ve been trying to
“race” a marathon.  I wanted a PR I could be proud of, and I wanted to
atone for my DNF in 2005.  When training started back in July, my initial
goal was sub 4:00, but I did have to re-evaluate that as my performance on
18-20 mile training runs told me that it wasn’t going to happen.  Still
every chart that extrapolates performance in shorter distances (5K, Yasso
800s, half marathon) says that I can go 3:50 or better—its just a matter
of endurance.  More on this later…

Race Selection: Sadly enough the primary driver was the UVa football
schedule.  There were home games scheduled the weekends of the Marine
Corps and Richmond marathons so I decided to check out OBX.  Plus, we have
family down there so we could turn the trip into a mini-vacation.
Virginia football is no longer good enough to affect my race decisions in
the immediate future, but at least my pre-season optimism gave me an
opportunity to try a new race.

There were a series of races down there that weekend.  On Saturday, there
was an 8K, and on Sunday they ran the full and half marathons.  A minor
criticism I had of their website was that it was a little confusing to
figure out what date the race I wanted to do actually was.  I initially
entered the wrong date on the RATS race calendar and had to enlist the
expertise of our webmaster to help me untangle the mess.  (Thanks Aaron!)
There were 6500 runners in total but most of them were there for the
half.

Race Expo: The building was probably a little too small, the parking was
a mess on Saturday, and the music was too loud, but what I liked about
this expo was that it had more booths for local merchants than most expos
I’ve seen.  Basically this race gives the local economy a little
off-season boost.  They were especially playing up the up the pirate
motif.  There was a lot of “Aaargh” that weekend.  I love the race
t-shirt.  Long sleeve polyester and not covered with sponsors.  If I can
train in Reston more regularly, you’ll be likely to see me in it.

Pre-Race: It was supposed to be a long four-day weekend, but I ended up
taking off a few extra days.  I was simply worn out and needed some down
time before the race.  I had been surrounded by sick people for two weeks
and how I came through my taper without catching anything is a minor
miracle.

Weather: I lurked on weather.com daily in the week leading up to race.  I
couldn’t ask for a better forecast, 55/65 with no chance of rain.  My
in-laws who live down there commented that this race had been lucky in
previous years, and despite the rosy forecast, I packed all my racing
gear—just in case.  Sure enough it was actually warmer than expected, not
a cloud in the sky, and I’m glad I stuck with short sleeves.  (And by
Tuesday after the race, the edge of Ida arrived, and the rainfall was
torrential.)  So you could sign up for this race and it could be
beautiful, you could find yourself in a chilly tropical storm, or more
likely, somewhere in between.

Nutrition: We made spaghetti the night before, and I had two bagels with
peanut butter, a cup of coffee, and a bottle of Gatorade before the race.
I planned on having Accel gel after the first and second hour, Power Gel
at the third hour, and enduralytes as needed.  I brought my own water belt
and drank Gatorade on the course, particularly in the last miles, as it
got hotter.

The Course: Point to Point from Kitty Hawk to Manteo.  Mostly flat.

Miles 1-10: It begins in Kitty Hawk just south of the first stoplight you
hit after crossing the bridge into the Outer Banks.  It’s a residential
area and very flat.  There was just enough tree cover to keep my Garmin
405 from giving me accurate pace data.  After a few miles I realized I was
running a little faster than I had planned and eventually backed off to a
comfortable 9:15 pace.

Miles 10-13: Just after the Wright Brothers Memorial I got an unexpected
“surprise,” the course turned into a wooded trail.  Normally I like wooded
trails, but my objective today was to go fast, and the change of terrain
slowed me down a bit.  There was just enough sand and loose rocks that I
had to run more conservatively which made me a little antsy.  Since we
were running south, we were chasing the sun, which occasionally peeked
through the canopy to give us temporary blindness.  I was glad to emerge
from the woods at the midpoint of the race.  My split was 2:01.  Time to
make up for some lost time!

Miles 13-20: I decided to dial it up a notch and see if I could bank a
few minutes before the last push, but there was no extra gear for me at
this point.  It was significantly warmer than the start of the race, and I
could feel the tops of my quads tightening up.  At this point the course
was now taking up a southbound lane of the Bypass.  My fan support passed
me on their way to the finish line for a little morale boost.  But I
wasn’t going to be going any faster, in fact, if my long training runs
taught me anything, it was only going to get harder.

Miles 20-26: Right on schedule, my body began to rebel at the three-hour
mark.  It wasn’t anything specific, like the quad cramps that plagued me
in MCM or the hamstring I pulled in Richmond…it was a general fatigue.
Some folks started pulling over and were cramping.  I think I was spared
thanks to the Enduralytes.  I didn’t feel like I had slowed down that
much, but now my splits were mid 10:00.  At mile 21, we turned west to
head to Manteo, and there it is, the bridge.  The course would be “flat”
if it weren’t for the bridge so I say “mostly flat.”  You can see the
bridge for a long time before you actually get to it.  It mocks you in its
own little way.  But then you start climbing, and the mockery escalates to
full taunting.  I muscled my way up the 4%  climb without stopping.  By
now it was pure determination.  My pace was affected by the climb, down to
the 11:00s.  At least at the top of the bridge I could see the final turn
a mile away.  Throughout the course, there had been a series of signs
offering up OBX trivia such as Blackbeard’s real name and Lost Colony
facts.  Now they were just telling goofy knock knock jokes hoping to keep
us smiling in the homestretch.  At this point I knew I was going to make
it, and I just had to suffer for another 15 minutes.  They went by in a
blur, and my pace actually picked back up.  I ran the final 0.2 at 9:56
pace.  And I felt great as I approached the finish line.  I wanted to go
faster than 4:18, but I was still very happy to have run a 4:18.  The
final half was 2:17…which was also my split in the first half of my 2003
MCM run.  I’d say that’s a pretty healthy improvement.

Recovery: They had a nice party (free beer!)set up for us, but
unfortunately I cannot comment on it since we couldn't stay long.  My kids
needed their nap so we walked back to the car, bypassing the shuttles due
to long lines.  I celebrated with a pulled pork platter from Pigman’s,
beer, and some football.  I didn’t feel that bad at all, and when we went
out to dinner I was moving pretty well.  I actually felt worse after the
half marathons I did earlier this year.  Since it was off-season, it was a
good guess that the crowded restaurants were full of recovering runners.
It was like everyone in town knew each other.  I dreaded the next day, but
I didn’t feel any worse than I would after an ordinary ten mile run.
Heck, I’m already looking for my next race!  And would I do this race
again?  Yep, sure would.

Splits
1 9:28  14 9:40
2 9:00  15 9:15
3 9:00  16 9:36
4 9:09  17 9:41
5 9:15  18: 9:50
6 9:08  19 9:48
7 9:17  20 10:34
8 9:17  21 10:27
9 9:13  22 10:39
10 9:19  23 11:26
11 9:42  24 11:54
12 9:19  25 11:18
13 10:11  26 11:02

<<And No, I would not penalize the videoed drafters unless all competitors
were similarly scrutinized.>>

Rules/law enforcement would collapse by that logic. You can never "similarly
scrutinize" any but the smallest groups in any population. The possiblity of
random (and by extension uneven and unfair) enforcement is a deterrent. Does
a cop skip giving a ticket to one speeder just because he can't nail the
other twenty around him in the same flow of traffic? If those bastards in
the video were the only ones nailed for drafting, they have only themselves
to blame.

Brad
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:10 PM, <Sea2river@...> wrote:

>
>
> Never been busted for drafting. And No, I would not penalize the videoed
> drafters unless all competitors were similarly scrutinized.
>
> Concur that race directors see no need to pay for more officials. How
> long does it take for a Ironman race to fill up completely? If we as
> athletes
> keep paying the registration fee a year in advance despite the blatant
> drafting of last year, where is the motivation for the RD to get more
> officials?
>
>
> Drafting in an Ironman has become similar to exceeding the speed limit on
> the Interstate; neither is legal but most people do it. How many readers
> who get passed on a bike course and then have the person who did the
> passing
> not keep up his pace so that the reader doesn't clear the draft zone in
> the given amount of time, actually slow down to exit the draft zone in a
> timely fashion? When we missed out on an Ironman Hawaii slot last year by
> less
> than a minute, there will be few competitors slowing.
>
> I concur with the need to increase time of penalties.
>
> Bob W
>
> In a message dated 11/10/2009 9:37:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mike_tri@... <mike_tri%40hotmail.com> writes:
>
> Seriously? You won't penalize someone for cheating just because you can't
> penalize them all? How about STOP CHEATING? I take it you've been busted
> for cheating before to make a statement like this? You'll never have
> enough officials in a 112-mile bike race to get all cheaters. If morals
> aren't
> enough to stop people, at least a threat of getting caught should.
>
>  That said, there are never enough officials for a variety of reasons, the
>
> number one reason being race directors won't spend the money. But also
> there aren't enough quality officials out there. My wife and I tried to be
> officials, but the organization was so dysfunctional that we left after a
> little over a year. Where I had been encouraging people to be officials, I
> now am encouraging people to boycott the program until they "fix" it.
>
> The difficult part is being fair to all levels of competition. However, I
> think officials are staged too far towards the back of a race. The front
> of a race should be loaded with officials as the leaders are often the most
>
> blatant cheaters, and are also the ones where cheating provides the
> biggest "payoff". An official can always circle back and check middle/back
> of
> the pack once the front is taken care of.
>
> The real issue - besides the pure dishonesty of people - is that a person
> gains far more than a 4-minute advantage from drafting for 112 miles, but
> is only penalized for 4 minutes.
>
> I'll never quite understand, though, how someone can be pleased with
> themselves and their results when the results weren't actually theirs. They
>
> were the results of riding with a pack of riders, or drugs, etc. We're
> amateurs after all, so it's not like it's the difference between making a
> great
> living and not making a living (not that that's right either). I guess
> people's morals will let them do these things. Of course, these are likely
> the same people who take credit for other people's work, cheated on tests
> to
> get through school, etc. Losers, every last one of them.
>
> ____________________________________
> To: mike_tri@... <mike_tri%40hotmail.com>;
trirats@yahoogroups.com<trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
> From: Sea2river@... <Sea2river%40aol.com>
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 23:02:12 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting
>
> That video captures only a brief segment. I would venture to guess there
> were other groups of riders doing the same thing elsewhere but just not
> captured on video. Why penalize one group just because a competitor
> recorded
> them? Get adequate numbers of officials or stage races where hills can
> break up packs.
>
> Bob W
>
> In a message dated 11/9/2009 10:42:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> _mike_tri@... <_mike_tri%40hotmail.mik>_ (mailto:
> mike_tri@... <mike_tri%40hotmail.com>) writes:
>
> They should send it to USAT, enhance/zoom, and penalize every last one of
> them!!!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> =
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]