Are there any good races in this area or do most people who can't run just
do triathlons and not run?  Is there a separate division in triathlons?



Scott





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You can also consider the community fund slot.  I was unable to be there to
volunteer and get in line so my only option turned out to be the community
fund slot.  Frankly, it turned out cheaper for me than volunteering would
have been.  If your company or spouses' company does a charitable donation
match then they will cover half the fee.  Then, if you consider the tax
deduction you end up spending less than the travel, food, and lodging would
cost you to go up there for the weekend to volunteer.



I like to volunteer just for the sake of volunteering so I'm not suggesting
that it's a bad thing; I'm just suggesting that if you have no other options
the community fund slot can be a good option, and potentially an even lower
cost option than volunteering to get a slot.  It also has the benefit of
being transferable to another race should something come up that would keep
you from being able to participate.



Scott





From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Erik Melis
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:44 PM
To: 'Tom Barbieri'; trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Lake Placid





Tom,

After last year's race, which my wife and I did, the demand for on-site
registration for the 2009 race was so great that there was no on-line
registration for the race at all. My recommendation if you want the best
shot at being able to get into the race in 2011 is to be a volunteer at the
2010 race since volunteers get priority chance at on-site registration over
the general public.

Good luck,

Erik

-----Original Message-----
From: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Tom Barbieri
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:26 PM
To: trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Tri RATS] IM Lake Placid

Hey RATs -

I am doing some long-term planning. Included is IM Lake Placid in 2011. I
have heard that signing up the day after the event for the next year,
on-location is preferred. Is there an advantage to doing this over signing
up on-line? Is it difficult to sign-up on-line?

I volunteered at the 2000 & 2001 races, but did investigate sign-up
procedures. That distance was not even "a glimmer in my eye" at the time.
From experience, can anyone share any secrets on how I should plan on
signing up for this high-demand event?

Thanks!

Tom Barbieri

703-657-9329 Cell
703-391-6064 Home

tom.barbieri@... <mailto:tom.barbieri%40me.com>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,

After last year's race, which my wife and I did, the demand for on-site
registration for the 2009 race was so great that there was no on-line
registration for the race at all.  My recommendation if you want the best
shot at being able to get into the race in 2011 is to be a volunteer at the
2010 race since volunteers get priority chance at on-site registration over
the general public.

Good luck,

Erik


-----Original Message-----
From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Tom Barbieri
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:26 PM
To: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Tri RATS] IM Lake Placid

Hey RATs -

I am doing some long-term planning. Included is IM Lake Placid in 2011. I
have heard that signing up the day after the event for the next year,
on-location is preferred. Is there an advantage to doing this over signing
up on-line? Is it difficult to sign-up on-line?

I volunteered at the 2000 & 2001 races, but did investigate sign-up
procedures. That distance was not even "a glimmer in my eye" at the time.
From experience, can anyone share any secrets on how I should plan on
signing up for this high-demand event?

Thanks!

Tom Barbieri

703-657-9329 Cell
703-391-6064 Home

tom.barbieri@...


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hey RATs -

I am doing some long-term planning. Included is IM Lake Placid in 2011. I have
heard that signing up the day after the event for the next year, on-location is
preferred. Is there an advantage to doing this over signing up on-line? Is it
difficult to sign-up on-line?

I volunteered at the 2000 & 2001 races, but did investigate sign-up procedures.
That distance was not even "a glimmer in my eye" at the time. From experience,
can anyone share any secrets on how I should plan on signing up for this
high-demand event?

Thanks!

Tom Barbieri

703-657-9329 Cell
703-391-6064 Home

tom.barbieri@...

<http://www.ironmanstgeorge.com/>



Date: March 4 to March 7, 2010

Location:  St. George, Utah

Race Focus:  Ironman St. George (or other IM races for Spring/Summer of
2010)

Coaches:  USAT Expert Level 3 Coach, Graham Wilson, and USAT Level 2 Coach
Debi Bernardes

Cost:  $495 (single) to include:  Pool access, shared hotel room, breakfast,
dinner (no alcohol), and sag support



Preliminary Itinerary:

Thursday (Day 1): For those arriving by noon there will be a short ride on
the course to see the start and finish.  In evening there will be a welcome
for all and presentation on IM Nutrition.



Friday (Day 2): Bike to pool, then a coached endurance swim of 4-5000
meters, but each swimmer will be pulled to the coaching lane a few times
throughout for stroke analysis and correction as needed.  From there we will
bike back to the hotel post swim.  In afternoon an easy distance run (TBD).
Evening presentation will be focused on IM build and preparation phase of
training.



Saturday (Day 3):  Ride the IM St. George bike course - 112 miles - optional
transition run for 20 minutes post ride.  Evening presentation will be on
Race Day strategies, etc.



Sunday (Day 4):  Long run of one loop of run course.  At 11:30 final
words/topic, and at noon the camp is over for departure.



For more information and camp flyer contact me or Graham Wilson
<mailto:graham@...> .

  <http://www.ucandoitcoach.us/> UCANDOIT-Finalsmall

Debi Bernardes

USAT Level 2 Coach

USAC Level 3 Coach

8385 Tomahawk Drive

King George, VA 22485

(540) 709-1484





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone have experience with the expresso bike machines in the gyms
lately?

See - http://www.ifholdings.com/index.htm

They are a full out video bike trainer - all in one - with courses, varying
load and wattage.   They seem to be cropping up in every high end gym in
town.

Is there a database for wattage outputs etc?  I held 286 watts average for
20.1 miles - and am wondering how that fairs in the pack?
Anyone else try these bikes?

David


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Racer: Brad Payne
Race: OBX Marathon
Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009
Location: Kill Devil Hills, NC
Race Type: Run - Marathon
Age Group: Male 40 - 44
Time: 4:18:41
Overall Place: 692 / 1816
Age Group Place: 71 / 154
URL: http://www.trirats.net/view_result.php?racerid=2666
Comment: 41 Minute PR!

--------------
Race Report:

Since I’m writing the first race report for this race I’ll devote a little
extra space to describe the overall event.  Folks looking for a fall
marathon that is flat and with some local color should seriously consider
this race.

Goal: Having finished a marathon six years ago, I’ve been trying to
“race” a marathon.  I wanted a PR I could be proud of, and I wanted to
atone for my DNF in 2005.  When training started back in July, my initial
goal was sub 4:00, but I did have to re-evaluate that as my performance on
18-20 mile training runs told me that it wasn’t going to happen.  Still
every chart that extrapolates performance in shorter distances (5K, Yasso
800s, half marathon) says that I can go 3:50 or better—its just a matter
of endurance.  More on this later…

Race Selection: Sadly enough the primary driver was the UVa football
schedule.  There were home games scheduled the weekends of the Marine
Corps and Richmond marathons so I decided to check out OBX.  Plus, we have
family down there so we could turn the trip into a mini-vacation.
Virginia football is no longer good enough to affect my race decisions in
the immediate future, but at least my pre-season optimism gave me an
opportunity to try a new race.

There were a series of races down there that weekend.  On Saturday, there
was an 8K, and on Sunday they ran the full and half marathons.  A minor
criticism I had of their website was that it was a little confusing to
figure out what date the race I wanted to do actually was.  I initially
entered the wrong date on the RATS race calendar and had to enlist the
expertise of our webmaster to help me untangle the mess.  (Thanks Aaron!)
There were 6500 runners in total but most of them were there for the
half.

Race Expo: The building was probably a little too small, the parking was
a mess on Saturday, and the music was too loud, but what I liked about
this expo was that it had more booths for local merchants than most expos
I’ve seen.  Basically this race gives the local economy a little
off-season boost.  They were especially playing up the up the pirate
motif.  There was a lot of “Aaargh” that weekend.  I love the race
t-shirt.  Long sleeve polyester and not covered with sponsors.  If I can
train in Reston more regularly, you’ll be likely to see me in it.

Pre-Race: It was supposed to be a long four-day weekend, but I ended up
taking off a few extra days.  I was simply worn out and needed some down
time before the race.  I had been surrounded by sick people for two weeks
and how I came through my taper without catching anything is a minor
miracle.

Weather: I lurked on weather.com daily in the week leading up to race.  I
couldn’t ask for a better forecast, 55/65 with no chance of rain.  My
in-laws who live down there commented that this race had been lucky in
previous years, and despite the rosy forecast, I packed all my racing
gear—just in case.  Sure enough it was actually warmer than expected, not
a cloud in the sky, and I’m glad I stuck with short sleeves.  (And by
Tuesday after the race, the edge of Ida arrived, and the rainfall was
torrential.)  So you could sign up for this race and it could be
beautiful, you could find yourself in a chilly tropical storm, or more
likely, somewhere in between.

Nutrition: We made spaghetti the night before, and I had two bagels with
peanut butter, a cup of coffee, and a bottle of Gatorade before the race.
I planned on having Accel gel after the first and second hour, Power Gel
at the third hour, and enduralytes as needed.  I brought my own water belt
and drank Gatorade on the course, particularly in the last miles, as it
got hotter.

The Course: Point to Point from Kitty Hawk to Manteo.  Mostly flat.

Miles 1-10: It begins in Kitty Hawk just south of the first stoplight you
hit after crossing the bridge into the Outer Banks.  It’s a residential
area and very flat.  There was just enough tree cover to keep my Garmin
405 from giving me accurate pace data.  After a few miles I realized I was
running a little faster than I had planned and eventually backed off to a
comfortable 9:15 pace.

Miles 10-13: Just after the Wright Brothers Memorial I got an unexpected
“surprise,” the course turned into a wooded trail.  Normally I like wooded
trails, but my objective today was to go fast, and the change of terrain
slowed me down a bit.  There was just enough sand and loose rocks that I
had to run more conservatively which made me a little antsy.  Since we
were running south, we were chasing the sun, which occasionally peeked
through the canopy to give us temporary blindness.  I was glad to emerge
from the woods at the midpoint of the race.  My split was 2:01.  Time to
make up for some lost time!

Miles 13-20: I decided to dial it up a notch and see if I could bank a
few minutes before the last push, but there was no extra gear for me at
this point.  It was significantly warmer than the start of the race, and I
could feel the tops of my quads tightening up.  At this point the course
was now taking up a southbound lane of the Bypass.  My fan support passed
me on their way to the finish line for a little morale boost.  But I
wasn’t going to be going any faster, in fact, if my long training runs
taught me anything, it was only going to get harder.

Miles 20-26: Right on schedule, my body began to rebel at the three-hour
mark.  It wasn’t anything specific, like the quad cramps that plagued me
in MCM or the hamstring I pulled in Richmond…it was a general fatigue.
Some folks started pulling over and were cramping.  I think I was spared
thanks to the Enduralytes.  I didn’t feel like I had slowed down that
much, but now my splits were mid 10:00.  At mile 21, we turned west to
head to Manteo, and there it is, the bridge.  The course would be “flat”
if it weren’t for the bridge so I say “mostly flat.”  You can see the
bridge for a long time before you actually get to it.  It mocks you in its
own little way.  But then you start climbing, and the mockery escalates to
full taunting.  I muscled my way up the 4%  climb without stopping.  By
now it was pure determination.  My pace was affected by the climb, down to
the 11:00s.  At least at the top of the bridge I could see the final turn
a mile away.  Throughout the course, there had been a series of signs
offering up OBX trivia such as Blackbeard’s real name and Lost Colony
facts.  Now they were just telling goofy knock knock jokes hoping to keep
us smiling in the homestretch.  At this point I knew I was going to make
it, and I just had to suffer for another 15 minutes.  They went by in a
blur, and my pace actually picked back up.  I ran the final 0.2 at 9:56
pace.  And I felt great as I approached the finish line.  I wanted to go
faster than 4:18, but I was still very happy to have run a 4:18.  The
final half was 2:17…which was also my split in the first half of my 2003
MCM run.  I’d say that’s a pretty healthy improvement.

Recovery: They had a nice party (free beer!)set up for us, but
unfortunately I cannot comment on it since we couldn't stay long.  My kids
needed their nap so we walked back to the car, bypassing the shuttles due
to long lines.  I celebrated with a pulled pork platter from Pigman’s,
beer, and some football.  I didn’t feel that bad at all, and when we went
out to dinner I was moving pretty well.  I actually felt worse after the
half marathons I did earlier this year.  Since it was off-season, it was a
good guess that the crowded restaurants were full of recovering runners.
It was like everyone in town knew each other.  I dreaded the next day, but
I didn’t feel any worse than I would after an ordinary ten mile run.
Heck, I’m already looking for my next race!  And would I do this race
again?  Yep, sure would.

Splits
1 9:28  14 9:40
2 9:00  15 9:15
3 9:00  16 9:36
4 9:09  17 9:41
5 9:15  18: 9:50
6 9:08  19 9:48
7 9:17  20 10:34
8 9:17  21 10:27
9 9:13  22 10:39
10 9:19  23 11:26
11 9:42  24 11:54
12 9:19  25 11:18
13 10:11  26 11:02

<<And No, I would not penalize the videoed drafters unless all competitors
were similarly scrutinized.>>

Rules/law enforcement would collapse by that logic. You can never "similarly
scrutinize" any but the smallest groups in any population. The possiblity of
random (and by extension uneven and unfair) enforcement is a deterrent. Does
a cop skip giving a ticket to one speeder just because he can't nail the
other twenty around him in the same flow of traffic? If those bastards in
the video were the only ones nailed for drafting, they have only themselves
to blame.

Brad
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:10 PM, <Sea2river@...> wrote:

>
>
> Never been busted for drafting. And No, I would not penalize the videoed
> drafters unless all competitors were similarly scrutinized.
>
> Concur that race directors see no need to pay for more officials. How
> long does it take for a Ironman race to fill up completely? If we as
> athletes
> keep paying the registration fee a year in advance despite the blatant
> drafting of last year, where is the motivation for the RD to get more
> officials?
>
>
> Drafting in an Ironman has become similar to exceeding the speed limit on
> the Interstate; neither is legal but most people do it. How many readers
> who get passed on a bike course and then have the person who did the
> passing
> not keep up his pace so that the reader doesn't clear the draft zone in
> the given amount of time, actually slow down to exit the draft zone in a
> timely fashion? When we missed out on an Ironman Hawaii slot last year by
> less
> than a minute, there will be few competitors slowing.
>
> I concur with the need to increase time of penalties.
>
> Bob W
>
> In a message dated 11/10/2009 9:37:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mike_tri@... <mike_tri%40hotmail.com> writes:
>
> Seriously? You won't penalize someone for cheating just because you can't
> penalize them all? How about STOP CHEATING? I take it you've been busted
> for cheating before to make a statement like this? You'll never have
> enough officials in a 112-mile bike race to get all cheaters. If morals
> aren't
> enough to stop people, at least a threat of getting caught should.
>
>  That said, there are never enough officials for a variety of reasons, the
>
> number one reason being race directors won't spend the money. But also
> there aren't enough quality officials out there. My wife and I tried to be
> officials, but the organization was so dysfunctional that we left after a
> little over a year. Where I had been encouraging people to be officials, I
> now am encouraging people to boycott the program until they "fix" it.
>
> The difficult part is being fair to all levels of competition. However, I
> think officials are staged too far towards the back of a race. The front
> of a race should be loaded with officials as the leaders are often the most
>
> blatant cheaters, and are also the ones where cheating provides the
> biggest "payoff". An official can always circle back and check middle/back
> of
> the pack once the front is taken care of.
>
> The real issue - besides the pure dishonesty of people - is that a person
> gains far more than a 4-minute advantage from drafting for 112 miles, but
> is only penalized for 4 minutes.
>
> I'll never quite understand, though, how someone can be pleased with
> themselves and their results when the results weren't actually theirs. They
>
> were the results of riding with a pack of riders, or drugs, etc. We're
> amateurs after all, so it's not like it's the difference between making a
> great
> living and not making a living (not that that's right either). I guess
> people's morals will let them do these things. Of course, these are likely
> the same people who take credit for other people's work, cheated on tests
> to
> get through school, etc. Losers, every last one of them.
>
> ____________________________________
> To: mike_tri@... <mike_tri%40hotmail.com>;
trirats@yahoogroups.com<trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
> From: Sea2river@... <Sea2river%40aol.com>
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 23:02:12 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting
>
> That video captures only a brief segment. I would venture to guess there
> were other groups of riders doing the same thing elsewhere but just not
> captured on video. Why penalize one group just because a competitor
> recorded
> them? Get adequate numbers of officials or stage races where hills can
> break up packs.
>
> Bob W
>
> In a message dated 11/9/2009 10:42:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> _mike_tri@... <_mike_tri%40hotmail.mik>_ (mailto:
> mike_tri@... <mike_tri%40hotmail.com>) writes:
>
> They should send it to USAT, enhance/zoom, and penalize every last one of
> them!!!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> =
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Go to performance bike and get one of their cheaper fluid trainer. There is no
real difference between that and the expensive ones.
Debi
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Shawn Simpson" <simpsonsa@...>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:13:11
To: <trirats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Tri RATS] Indoor Bike Trainers

I'm looking to buy an indoor bike trainer and I'm not looking to pay a lot
($200+/-)but want quality equipment.  Does anyone have any thoughts and\or
suggestions about types (fan, fluid, magnetic), brands and models, ease of
set-up and break-down, other things to consider when buying, additional
equipment suggestions, good experiences or bad, etc?  Is my price range
realistic?  Any input will be appreciated.



Thanks!

Shawn



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm looking to buy an indoor bike trainer and I'm not looking to pay a lot
($200+/-)but want quality equipment.  Does anyone have any thoughts and\or
suggestions about types (fan, fluid, magnetic), brands and models, ease of
set-up and break-down, other things to consider when buying, additional
equipment suggestions, good experiences or bad, etc?  Is my price range
realistic?  Any input will be appreciated.



Thanks!

Shawn



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The only one I've ever had draft off me is the SAG wagon...  ;)

At 07:47 PM 11/10/2009, Buffy Slayer wrote:
>There is something to be said for being at the back of the pack
>where this kind of thing doesn't happen too often. If ever. Don't
>cheat. It's wrong and disgusting.
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


********************************************************************************\
*******

Erik R. O. Melis
Associate Director
Office of Student Financial Aid, MS 3B5
George Mason University
Fairfax, VA  22030-4444


Past-President (2006-07)
Virginia Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators (VASFAA)

TEL: (703) 993-2356
FAX: (703) 783-0262 (fax directly to my e-mail)
FAX: (703) 993-2350 (standard office fax machine)

Office WEB Address: http://financialaid.gmu.edu


"Perceive it + Believe it + Achieve it = 140.6"

Goal Achieved: Finisher - Ironman USA, Lake Placid, July 2008


~~- ~~~~- ~~
   ~~- /\o ~~-
~~- ~~~~- ~~

.....__o
.......\<,
....( )/ ( )


       ,__o
            /\,
       __/\
      '      /_

Next Major Goal: Ironman Arizona, November 2009

Michele and I have a cabin (w hot tub) reserved but have decided to forego
Triple T next year. Let me know if your interested in the cabin before I cancel
the reservation.

-Chuck
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

There is something to be said for being at the back of the pack where this kind
of thing doesn't happen too often. If ever. Don't cheat. It's wrong and
disgusting.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The 35-39 women are the worst.



Debi



From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of M.
King
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:47 AM
To: Sea2river@...; mike_tri@...; trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting





  I've only done Eagleman and I've seen lots of large groups but because of the
wave starts everyone is more spread out.  I'm just curious, I've only seen
groups with large packs of all men--are there large groups of women as well?  It
always was particularly galling to be passed by big groups of men 20 years
younger than me while I pedaled along on my own.
  Monique King
monjking@... <mailto:monjking%40yahoo.com>

________________________________
From: "Sea2river@... <mailto:Sea2river%40aol.com> " <Sea2river@...
<mailto:Sea2river%40aol.com> >
To: mike_tri@... <mailto:mike_tri%40hotmail.com> ;
trirats@yahoogroups.com <mailto:trirats%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 11:02:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting


That video captures only a brief segment. I would venture to guess there
were other groups of riders doing the same thing elsewhere but just not
captured on video. Why penalize one group just because a competitor recorded
them? Get adequate numbers of officials or stage races where hills can
break up packs.

Bob W

In a message dated 11/9/2009 10:42:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mike_tri@hotmail. com writes:

They should send it to USAT, enhance/zoom, and penalize every last one of
them!!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Never been busted for drafting. And No, I would not penalize the videoed
drafters unless all competitors were similarly scrutinized.

Concur that race directors see no need to pay for more officials.  How
long does it take for a Ironman race to fill up completely?  If we as  athletes
keep paying the registration fee a year in advance despite the blatant
drafting of last year, where is the motivation for the RD to get more
officials?


Drafting in an Ironman has become similar to exceeding the speed limit on
the Interstate; neither is legal but most people do it.  How many readers
who get passed on a bike course and then have the person who did the  passing
not keep up his pace so that the reader doesn't clear the draft zone in
the given amount of time, actually slow down to exit the draft zone in a
timely  fashion?  When we missed out on an Ironman Hawaii slot last year by less
than a minute, there will be few competitors slowing.

I concur with the need to increase time of penalties.

Bob W

In a message dated 11/10/2009 9:37:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mike_tri@... writes:

Seriously?  You won't penalize someone for cheating just  because you can't
penalize them all?  How about STOP CHEATING?  I  take it you've been busted
for cheating before to make a statement like  this?  You'll never have
enough officials in a 112-mile bike race to  get all cheaters.  If morals aren't
enough to stop people, at least  a threat of getting caught should.

That said, there are never  enough officials for a variety of reasons, the
number one reason being race  directors won't spend the money.  But also
there aren't enough quality  officials out there.  My wife and I tried to be
officials, but the  organization was so dysfunctional that we left after a
little over a  year.  Where I had been encouraging people to be officials, I
now am  encouraging people to boycott the program until they "fix"  it.

The difficult part is being fair to all levels of  competition.  However, I
think officials are staged too far towards the  back of a race.  The front
of a race should be loaded with officials as  the leaders are often the most
blatant cheaters, and are also the ones where  cheating provides the
biggest "payoff".  An official can always circle  back and check middle/back of
the pack once the front is taken care  of.

The real issue - besides the pure dishonesty of people  - is that a person
gains far more than a 4-minute advantage from drafting  for 112 miles, but
is only penalized for 4 minutes.

I'll never  quite understand, though, how someone can be pleased with
themselves and their  results when the results weren't actually theirs.  They
were the  results of riding with a pack of riders, or drugs, etc.  We're
amateurs after all, so it's not like it's the difference between making a  great
living and not making a living (not that that's right  either).  I guess
people's morals will let them do these things.   Of course, these are likely
the same people who take credit for other  people's work, cheated on tests to
get through school, etc.  Losers,  every last one of them.


____________________________________
To: mike_tri@...; trirats@yahoogroups.com
From:  Sea2river@...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 23:02:12 -0500
Subject: Re: [Tri  RATS] IM Florida Drafting



That video captures only a brief segment. I would venture  to guess there
were other groups of riders doing the same thing elsewhere  but just not
captured on video. Why penalize one group just because a  competitor
recorded
them? Get adequate numbers of officials or stage races  where hills can
break up packs.

Bob W


In a message dated  11/9/2009 10:42:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
_mike_tri@..._ (mailto:mike_tri@...)   writes:

They should send it to USAT, enhance/zoom, and penalize every  last one of
them!!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]




=



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike Tine said:

"If morals aren't enough to stop people, at least a threat of getting caught
should."

Mike - I have become a fan of your position.  But being the theology Major
in the group makes this moral issue especially interesting to me.  I believe
time has proven that most of our sport favors a consensus based morality -
rather than a values based morality.  For example - If it is considerd to be
better not to piss people off by taking the morally correct but more
unpopular side of an issue, then we are said favor consensus over values.

So how most people vote (or if they are already drafting) THAT position is
most moral.
Obviously - consensus breaks down when you take a popular vote from inmates
in a prison about whether to kill a guard.  IMO - value based morality is
always more reliable.

If in fact, our sport IS mostly consensus based morality - then this is a
battle that values based moral indignation can not win.  Yes YOU ARE right -
but it won't matter in the final out come.

Big races will never be able to police 112 bike miles thoroughly.  So only
the individuals moral code can have any effect here - as you correctly
assert. But since we are mostly consensus based in our morality, I expect
this to be a problem we'll just have to live with.  So if you want to win
with those rules - you have a decision to make about whether to play it
straight and lose or draft and have a shot.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The real issue - besides the pure dishonesty of people - is that a person gains
far more than a 4-minute advantage from drafting for 112 miles, but is only
penalized for 4 minutes.

You got it Mike. 4 minutes is nothing for an IM. They should make drafting a 15
minute penalty at HIM and a 30 minute penalty at IM distance (or something like
that). Maybe then there wouldn't be as much drafting at longer distance races.


--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Michael Tine <mike_tri@...> wrote:

> From: Michael Tine <mike_tri@...>
> Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting
> To: sea2river@..., "trirats" <trirats@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 7:36 AM
>
> Seriously?  You won't penalize someone for cheating
> just because you can't penalize them all?  How about
> STOP CHEATING?  I take it you've been busted for
> cheating before to make a statement like this?  You'll
> never have enough officials in a 112-mile bike race to get
> all cheaters.  If morals aren't enough to stop people,
> at least a threat of getting caught should.
>
>
>
> That said, there are never enough officials for a variety
> of reasons, the number one reason being race directors won't
> spend the money.  But also there aren't enough quality
> officials out there.  My wife and I tried to be
> officials, but the organization was so dysfunctional that we
> left after a little over a year.  Where I had been
> encouraging people to be officials, I now am encouraging
> people to boycott the program until they "fix" it.
>
>
>
> The difficult part is being fair to all levels of
> competition.  However, I think officials are staged too
> far towards the back of a race.  The front of a race
> should be loaded with officials as the leaders are often the
> most blatant cheaters, and are also the ones where cheating
> provides the biggest "payoff".  An official can always
> circle back and check middle/back of the pack once the front
> is taken care of.
>
>
>
> The real issue - besides the pure dishonesty of people - is
> that a person gains far more than a 4-minute advantage from
> drafting for 112 miles, but is only penalized for 4
> minutes.
>
>
>
> I'll never quite understand, though, how someone can be
> pleased with themselves and their results when the results
> weren't actually theirs.  They were the results of
> riding with a pack of riders, or drugs, etc.  We're
> amateurs after all, so it's not like it's the difference
> between making a great living and not making a living (not
> that that's right either).  I guess people's morals
> will let them do these things.  Of course, these are
> likely the same people who take credit for other people's
> work, cheated on tests to get through school, etc. 
> Losers, every last one of them.
>
>
>
> To: mike_tri@...;
> trirats@yahoogroups.com
> From: Sea2river@...
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 23:02:12 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting
>
>  
>
>
>
> That video captures only a brief segment. I would venture
> to guess there
> were other groups of riders doing the same thing elsewhere
> but just not
> captured on video. Why penalize one group just because a
> competitor recorded
> them? Get adequate numbers of officials or stage races
> where hills can
> break up packs.
>
> Bob W
>
>
> In a message dated 11/9/2009 10:42:47 P.M. Eastern Standard
> Time,
> mike_tri@...
> writes:
>
> They should send it to USAT, enhance/zoom, and penalize
> every last one of
> them!!!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>     
>         
>           
>  
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     trirats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

I say increase the penalties. A few minutes in the sin bin is no deterrent when
you can gain a half-hour or more drafting


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Gendron" [rggendro@...]
Sent: 11/10/2009 04:03 PM GMT
To: "Michael Tine" <mike_tri@...>; "RATS" <trirats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting



Mike,

As a road cyclist and triathlete I really take offense at this kind of cheating.
Riding in a peleton like this is just crap. In a real road race, there are guys
attacking or trying to crack the sprinters with hard Oxegen-debt-fueled efforts.
Even the strongest Tri guys can't hold 260w over 112 miles and shorter efforts
will blow your race if you don't intend to cheat. Do you know how easy it is to
hang on to 260w on a flat ground.

I'd say these cheaters should grow some and get into a Road Race.

"I personally feel that USAT should get some high-level cyclists, disguise them
in the pack, and penalize people that way."

Let's see, get a workout on closed streets and bust some cheating triathetes.  I
think you might get an over subscription of cyclist if there is no race that
weekend. .

How bout getting the local SAMCRO to police the race with video. Penalties could
be DQ, plus money. For each verifiable bust the bikers bring in, the club earns
the penalty (it would be a refundable deposit, paid by entrants). I'm sending
this in to the writers of Sons of Anarchy. "Fear the Reaper"


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Tine <mike_tri@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:01
To: trirats<trirats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: FW: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting






From: mike_tri@...
To: bernardes@...
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:44:40 -0500



If people were honest, the packs could be broken up.  Yes, there might be long
chains of people sitting 3 bike lengths apart (still getting some drafting
benefit, but legally), but they wouldn't be sucking the rear wheel.  If everyone
followed the rules and was honest, it would "just" be a long chain of people. 
But the fact of the matter is that people resign themselves to cheating.  I've
been in races where I've ridden near the same 5-20 people for the entire race,
but none of us drafted.  We swapped order periodically, but we always ensured we
dropped back in time and enough distance.  It's possible if people are honest. 
It might be frustrating, and people might have to get out of a rhythm every once
in a while, but it's possible.

I personally feel that USAT should get some high-level cyclists, disguise them
in the pack, and penalize people that way.  If cyclists didn't know if/when they
were being watched and ended up DQ'd, I bet they'd figure out a way to not
draft.  The issue now is that the penalty doesn't match the crime, and it's too
easy to avoid it since you can often hear the moto coming.  Since officials need
to watch one draft for 15 seconds, it's relatively easy to avoid a penalty even
if one is cheating.

My two cents.



To: irunman34@...; trirats@yahoogroups.com
From: bernardes@...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:40:07 -0500
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting




What else is new.

The two years I did that race I would be passed by swarms of people on the
bike in huge pelotons. Only one section of road (that little out and back
jog they put you through) where it's flat and there is no getting away from
anyone is the only place they won't flag people down (it's kind of like I-95
right there during rush hour). But the majority of the course up to about
80 miles you'll see the draft packs.

There was one guy who I had met from another list I belong to who actually
complained about them to the group of people on that list. The funny thing
was that he slowed down enough to talk to me for a minute or so, and then
had to hurry back up to catch his group before he lost them. I saw him in
that same group 30 miles further down the road.

Then he bragged about beating me. Go figure.

All you can do on that course is be as honest as possible, ride your own
race, and be proud of your own achievements. As it is, they have way too
many people in that race that are of the same level of ability (kind of like
Worlds 70.3 down in Clearwater). When you have a pretty flat course it's
hard to break up the packs unless you have some good geography to do it.

Debi

From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
hooyah30
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:26 PM
To: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting

Ck it out, this is live footage from the course. I don't know who this
guy is but great shots. Alot of friends said it was terrible and this
is just one minute of it. Insane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY#
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY> (cut and paste link
into browser)

gbobholmes (name of the guys account in case link doesn't work)
imf2009bikeone.mov

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike,

As a road cyclist and triathlete I really take offense at this kind of cheating.
Riding in a peleton like this is just crap. In a real road race, there are guys
attacking or trying to crack the sprinters with hard Oxegen-debt-fueled efforts.
Even the strongest Tri guys can't hold 260w over 112 miles and shorter efforts
will blow your race if you don't intend to cheat. Do you know how easy it is to
hang on to 260w on a flat ground.

I'd say these cheaters should grow some and get into a Road Race.

"I personally feel that USAT should get some high-level cyclists, disguise them
in the pack, and penalize people that way."

Let's see, get a workout on closed streets and bust some cheating triathetes.  I
think you might get an over subscription of cyclist if there is no race that
weekend. .

How bout getting the local SAMCRO to police the race with video. Penalties could
be DQ, plus money. For each verifiable bust the bikers bring in, the club earns
the penalty (it would be a refundable deposit, paid by entrants). I'm sending
this in to the writers of Sons of Anarchy. "Fear the Reaper"


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Tine <mike_tri@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:45:01
To: trirats<trirats@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: FW: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting






From: mike_tri@...
To: bernardes@...
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:44:40 -0500



If people were honest, the packs could be broken up.  Yes, there might be long
chains of people sitting 3 bike lengths apart (still getting some drafting
benefit, but legally), but they wouldn't be sucking the rear wheel.  If everyone
followed the rules and was honest, it would "just" be a long chain of people. 
But the fact of the matter is that people resign themselves to cheating.  I've
been in races where I've ridden near the same 5-20 people for the entire race,
but none of us drafted.  We swapped order periodically, but we always ensured we
dropped back in time and enough distance.  It's possible if people are honest. 
It might be frustrating, and people might have to get out of a rhythm every once
in a while, but it's possible.

I personally feel that USAT should get some high-level cyclists, disguise them
in the pack, and penalize people that way.  If cyclists didn't know if/when they
were being watched and ended up DQ'd, I bet they'd figure out a way to not
draft.  The issue now is that the penalty doesn't match the crime, and it's too
easy to avoid it since you can often hear the moto coming.  Since officials need
to watch one draft for 15 seconds, it's relatively easy to avoid a penalty even
if one is cheating.

My two cents.



To: irunman34@...; trirats@yahoogroups.com
From: bernardes@...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:40:07 -0500
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting




What else is new.

The two years I did that race I would be passed by swarms of people on the
bike in huge pelotons. Only one section of road (that little out and back
jog they put you through) where it's flat and there is no getting away from
anyone is the only place they won't flag people down (it's kind of like I-95
right there during rush hour). But the majority of the course up to about
80 miles you'll see the draft packs.

There was one guy who I had met from another list I belong to who actually
complained about them to the group of people on that list. The funny thing
was that he slowed down enough to talk to me for a minute or so, and then
had to hurry back up to catch his group before he lost them. I saw him in
that same group 30 miles further down the road.

Then he bragged about beating me. Go figure.

All you can do on that course is be as honest as possible, ride your own
race, and be proud of your own achievements. As it is, they have way too
many people in that race that are of the same level of ability (kind of like
Worlds 70.3 down in Clearwater). When you have a pretty flat course it's
hard to break up the packs unless you have some good geography to do it.

Debi

From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
hooyah30
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:26 PM
To: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting

Ck it out, this is live footage from the course. I don't know who this
guy is but great shots. Alot of friends said it was terrible and this
is just one minute of it. Insane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY#
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY> (cut and paste link
into browser)

gbobholmes (name of the guys account in case link doesn't work)
imf2009bikeone.mov

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Now that would be an excellent solution!

Kind of like those secret radar spots on 95 that can send you a ticket for
speeding without a cop ever stopping you!

Debi

-----Original Message-----
From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Tine
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:45 AM
To: trirats
Subject: FW: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting






From: mike_tri@...
To: bernardes@...
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:44:40 -0500



If people were honest, the packs could be broken up.  Yes, there might be
long chains of people sitting 3 bike lengths apart (still getting some
drafting benefit, but legally), but they wouldn't be sucking the rear wheel.
If everyone followed the rules and was honest, it would "just" be a long
chain of people.  But the fact of the matter is that people resign
themselves to cheating.  I've been in races where I've ridden near the same
5-20 people for the entire race, but none of us drafted.  We swapped order
periodically, but we always ensured we dropped back in time and enough
distance.  It's possible if people are honest.  It might be frustrating, and
people might have to get out of a rhythm every once in a while, but it's
possible.

I personally feel that USAT should get some high-level cyclists, disguise
them in the pack, and penalize people that way.  If cyclists didn't know
if/when they were being watched and ended up DQ'd, I bet they'd figure out a
way to not draft.  The issue now is that the penalty doesn't match the
crime, and it's too easy to avoid it since you can often hear the moto
coming.  Since officials need to watch one draft for 15 seconds, it's
relatively easy to avoid a penalty even if one is cheating.

My two cents.



To: irunman34@...; trirats@yahoogroups.com
From: bernardes@...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:40:07 -0500
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting




What else is new.

The two years I did that race I would be passed by swarms of people on the
bike in huge pelotons. Only one section of road (that little out and back
jog they put you through) where it's flat and there is no getting away from
anyone is the only place they won't flag people down (it's kind of like I-95
right there during rush hour). But the majority of the course up to about
80 miles you'll see the draft packs.

There was one guy who I had met from another list I belong to who actually
complained about them to the group of people on that list. The funny thing
was that he slowed down enough to talk to me for a minute or so, and then
had to hurry back up to catch his group before he lost them. I saw him in
that same group 30 miles further down the road.

Then he bragged about beating me. Go figure.

All you can do on that course is be as honest as possible, ride your own
race, and be proud of your own achievements. As it is, they have way too
many people in that race that are of the same level of ability (kind of like
Worlds 70.3 down in Clearwater). When you have a pretty flat course it's
hard to break up the packs unless you have some good geography to do it.

Debi

From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
hooyah30
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:26 PM
To: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting

Ck it out, this is live footage from the course. I don't know who this
guy is but great shots. Alot of friends said it was terrible and this
is just one minute of it. Insane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY#
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY> (cut and paste link
into browser)

gbobholmes (name of the guys account in case link doesn't work)
imf2009bikeone.mov

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

From: mike_tri@...
To: bernardes@...
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:44:40 -0500



If people were honest, the packs could be broken up.  Yes, there might be long
chains of people sitting 3 bike lengths apart (still getting some drafting
benefit, but legally), but they wouldn't be sucking the rear wheel.  If everyone
followed the rules and was honest, it would "just" be a long chain of people. 
But the fact of the matter is that people resign themselves to cheating.  I've
been in races where I've ridden near the same 5-20 people for the entire race,
but none of us drafted.  We swapped order periodically, but we always ensured we
dropped back in time and enough distance.  It's possible if people are honest. 
It might be frustrating, and people might have to get out of a rhythm every once
in a while, but it's possible.

I personally feel that USAT should get some high-level cyclists, disguise them
in the pack, and penalize people that way.  If cyclists didn't know if/when they
were being watched and ended up DQ'd, I bet they'd figure out a way to not
draft.  The issue now is that the penalty doesn't match the crime, and it's too
easy to avoid it since you can often hear the moto coming.  Since officials need
to watch one draft for 15 seconds, it's relatively easy to avoid a penalty even
if one is cheating.

My two cents.



To: irunman34@...; trirats@yahoogroups.com
From: bernardes@...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:40:07 -0500
Subject: RE: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting




What else is new.

The two years I did that race I would be passed by swarms of people on the
bike in huge pelotons. Only one section of road (that little out and back
jog they put you through) where it's flat and there is no getting away from
anyone is the only place they won't flag people down (it's kind of like I-95
right there during rush hour). But the majority of the course up to about
80 miles you'll see the draft packs.

There was one guy who I had met from another list I belong to who actually
complained about them to the group of people on that list. The funny thing
was that he slowed down enough to talk to me for a minute or so, and then
had to hurry back up to catch his group before he lost them. I saw him in
that same group 30 miles further down the road.

Then he bragged about beating me. Go figure.

All you can do on that course is be as honest as possible, ride your own
race, and be proud of your own achievements. As it is, they have way too
many people in that race that are of the same level of ability (kind of like
Worlds 70.3 down in Clearwater). When you have a pretty flat course it's
hard to break up the packs unless you have some good geography to do it.

Debi

From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
hooyah30
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:26 PM
To: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting

Ck it out, this is live footage from the course. I don't know who this
guy is but great shots. Alot of friends said it was terrible and this
is just one minute of it. Insane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY#
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY> (cut and paste link
into browser)

gbobholmes (name of the guys account in case link doesn't work)
imf2009bikeone.mov

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Seriously?  You won't penalize someone for cheating just because you can't
penalize them all?  How about STOP CHEATING?  I take it you've been busted for
cheating before to make a statement like this?  You'll never have enough
officials in a 112-mile bike race to get all cheaters.  If morals aren't enough
to stop people, at least a threat of getting caught should.



That said, there are never enough officials for a variety of reasons, the number
one reason being race directors won't spend the money.  But also there aren't
enough quality officials out there.  My wife and I tried to be officials, but
the organization was so dysfunctional that we left after a little over a year. 
Where I had been encouraging people to be officials, I now am encouraging people
to boycott the program until they "fix" it.



The difficult part is being fair to all levels of competition.  However, I think
officials are staged too far towards the back of a race.  The front of a race
should be loaded with officials as the leaders are often the most blatant
cheaters, and are also the ones where cheating provides the biggest "payoff". 
An official can always circle back and check middle/back of the pack once the
front is taken care of.



The real issue - besides the pure dishonesty of people - is that a person gains
far more than a 4-minute advantage from drafting for 112 miles, but is only
penalized for 4 minutes.



I'll never quite understand, though, how someone can be pleased with themselves
and their results when the results weren't actually theirs.  They were the
results of riding with a pack of riders, or drugs, etc.  We're amateurs after
all, so it's not like it's the difference between making a great living and not
making a living (not that that's right either).  I guess people's morals will
let them do these things.  Of course, these are likely the same people who take
credit for other people's work, cheated on tests to get through school, etc. 
Losers, every last one of them.



To: mike_tri@...; trirats@yahoogroups.com
From: Sea2river@...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 23:02:12 -0500
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting





That video captures only a brief segment. I would venture to guess there
were other groups of riders doing the same thing elsewhere but just not
captured on video. Why penalize one group just because a competitor recorded
them? Get adequate numbers of officials or stage races where hills can
break up packs.

Bob W


In a message dated 11/9/2009 10:42:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mike_tri@... writes:

They should send it to USAT, enhance/zoom, and penalize every last one of
them!!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 I've only done Eagleman and I've seen lots of large groups but because of
the wave starts everyone is more spread out.  I'm just curious, I've only seen
groups with large packs of all men--are there large groups of women as well? 
It always was particularly galling to be passed by big groups of men 20 years
younger than me while I pedaled along on my own.
 Monique King
monjking@...




________________________________
From: "Sea2river@..." <Sea2river@...>
To: mike_tri@...; trirats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 11:02:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting

 
That video captures only a brief segment. I would venture to guess there
were other groups of riders doing the same thing elsewhere but just not
captured on video. Why penalize one group just because a competitor recorded
them? Get adequate numbers of officials or stage races where hills can
break up packs.

Bob W


In a message dated 11/9/2009 10:42:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mike_tri@hotmail. com writes:

They should send it to USAT, enhance/zoom, and penalize every last one of
them!!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That video captures only a brief segment.  I would venture to guess  there
were other groups of riders doing the same thing elsewhere but just not
captured on video.  Why penalize one group just because a competitor  recorded
them? Get adequate numbers of officials or stage races where hills can
break up packs.

Bob W


In a message dated 11/9/2009 10:42:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mike_tri@... writes:

They  should send it to USAT, enhance/zoom, and penalize every last one of
them!!!




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And that is the key. For that same reason (the flat bike course and
inadequate numbers of officials), I would avoid Chesapeakeman.  Hills are  what
separate the packs. Go Savageman and IM Lake Placid.

Bob W


In a message dated 11/9/2009 10:42:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bernardes@... writes:

When  you have a pretty flat course it's
hard to break up the packs unless you  have some good geography to do  it.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What else is new.



The two years I did that race I would be passed by swarms of people on the
bike in huge pelotons.  Only one section of road (that little out and back
jog they put you through) where it's flat and there is no getting away from
anyone is the only place they won't flag people down (it's kind of like I-95
right there during rush hour).  But the majority of the course up to about
80 miles you'll see the draft packs.



There was one guy who I had met from another list I belong to who actually
complained about them to the group of people on that list.  The funny thing
was that he slowed down enough to talk to me for a minute or so, and then
had to hurry back up to catch his group before he lost them.  I saw him in
that same group 30 miles further down the road.



Then he bragged about beating me.  Go figure.



All you can do on that course is be as honest as possible, ride your own
race, and be proud of your own achievements.  As it is, they have way too
many people in that race that are of the same level of ability (kind of like
Worlds 70.3 down in Clearwater).  When you have a pretty flat course it's
hard to break up the packs unless you have some good geography to do it.



Debi



From: trirats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:trirats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
hooyah30
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:26 PM
To: trirats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting






Ck it out, this is live footage from the course. I don't know who this
guy is but great shots. Alot of friends said it was terrible and this
is just one minute of it. Insane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY#
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY>  (cut and paste link
into browser)

gbobholmes (name of the guys account in case link doesn't work)
imf2009bikeone.mov





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Grrrrrrrrrrr.  I hate cheating.  These guys might as well do HGH, EPO, 'roids
too since the drafting actually gives them as big a benefit as all of those. 
Cheating bastards, good for you, you did well...with someone pulling you along. 
How about seeing how real men race?



Thanks for the video!  I'm thrilled someone captured it.  They should send it to
USAT, enhance/zoom, and penalize every last one of them!!!



Mike



To: trirats@yahoogroups.com
From: irunman34@...
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:26:16 +0000
Subject: [Tri RATS] IM Florida Drafting






Ck it out, this is live footage from the course. I don't know who this
guy is but great shots. Alot of friends said it was terrible and this
is just one minute of it. Insane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY# (cut and paste link
into browser)

gbobholmes (name of the guys account in case link doesn't work)
imf2009bikeone.mov






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ck it out, this is live footage from the course. I don't know who this
guy is but great shots. Alot of friends said it was terrible and this
is just one minute of it. Insane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLbHfj7CNY#    (cut and paste link
into browser)

  gbobholmes    (name of the guys account in case link doesn't work)
imf2009bikeone.mov

Hey RATs -

I am thinking about Rhode Island 70.3 in July. Has anyone done this event?

If so, and if you don't mind answering a few questions about your experience,
please contact me off list.

Thanks!

Tom Barbieri

703-657-9329 Cell
703-391-6064 Home

tom.barbieri@...

this was something sent to me for a turkey trot...see the attachment =)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jennifer DiCenzo <lansdowneturkeytrot@...>
Date: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:15 AM
Subject: Advertise your business at the 2009 Lansdowne Turkey Trot
To: Dr Su <dreugenesu@...>


Dr. Su-

Thank you for your interest in our 2nd Annual Lansdowne Turkey Trot! The
proceeds from this year’s race will benefit the Lansdowne Public Safety
Center – Fire Station 22, and more specifically the Ashburn Volunteer Fire &
Rescue Department.  You tax deductible sponsorship allows AVFRD to make up
the difference between our actual operating costs and the funding provided
by Loudoun County and the Commonwealth of Virginia for our just-completed
fiscal year.

The cost of sponsorship is far less than newspaper, internet, or door to
door mailers and offers you a wealth of exposure to the Lansdowne Community
and surrounding area. We have a variety of sponsorship levels to accommodate
your marketing budget.  Last year we had over 600 participants and we plan
to have an even bigger crowd this year.

The Lansdowne Community is made up of over 2,100 homes; those homes and
families are your customers, your audience. Your sponsorship not only helps
out Firestation 22, but also shows your support of the Lansdowne Community.



Attached is the Sponsorship Kit outlining the different levels of
sponsorship.

Thank you, I look forward to hearing from you soon!

Jennifer DiCenzo
Marketing Coordinator- Lansdowne Turkey Trot
lansdowneturkeytrot@...
703-675-2544




--
www.BeyondWellnessOnline.com
44330 Premier Plaza #110
Ashburn, VA 20147

703.723.WELL

"Healthcare with a Mission"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]