Liz,



I understand how you feel.  My husbands uncle spent 20 years in prison for
muder (caught his wife in bed with another man and shot him).  So for our
whole marriage I have watched elton read his letters and send him letters.
My first husband was always in and out of prison for drugs.  Yahoo is acting
stupid again.  I did not get this part of the message until Pam answered it.
   If you ever need to rant and don't feel like posting on the net feel free
to email me and rant away.

Karen

----- Original Message -----

From: Liz

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 11:14 AM

Subject: Re: [training-horses] Herbal Remedies

You need to find out why she is continuously in heat prior to trying to treat her with anything. She could have a tumor, she could have hormone problems, she could have an infection, and there are possibilities beyond those as well.

 

I'm a very, very strong proponent of natural medicine, but you don't treat an animal blindly with anything be it herbs or conventional medicine!

 

Once you know what is wrong with the mare beyond symptoms, then you will get a lot of thoughts on how to help her!

 

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From: mpocgn

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:53 AM

Subject: [training-horses] Herbal Remedies

I just joined this group to seek out help with my 15-year-old TWH
mare.  She had four foals, but I have not bred her since I bought her
and it seems she is always in heat!  I don't want to use Regumate due
to the expense.  Just wondering if anyone has had any success with any
herbal remedies.

Thanks!





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--- In training-horses@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <sandoz@c...> wrote:
> Ya know though, it's kinda cutting off your nose to spite your face
if you say the way you are raised has little to no impact on how you
>turn out.

Im not saying that it has little to no impact. Im sorry that you read
that into my words because i certainly dont believe that..not in the
least. Parents have a huge influence on their kids life, as do other
things. But if as a parent you believe that if you do all the right
things your child will never make the wrong choices, your kidding
yourself. Been there, done that.

>them grow up. There's 13 years between me and my youngest brother,
he was like having a child because my parents weren't around half the
time!
>

My cousin was the black sheep of our extended family. She was 2 years
older than the twins and 4 years older than the baby. She raised them
all.. bottles, diapers, you name it. Her parents were leaving her
alone with those kids from the time they were born and she was still
a toddler. Her parents are alcholics and my cousin, who was also my
idol as a teenager, was a hellion. She drank, she smoked, she spent
more time suspended than in school, and if there was trouble she was
in the middle of it. The aunts, who are a pretty catty lot, were sure
she wouldnt amount to squat. One of my favorite things is watching
her arrive at family reunions. Of all of us, she has the most
education, the highest income and certainly one of the best
marriages..though she chose to stay single until she was in her late
30 and chose not to have kids at all. I ask her once how she did
it..she said.."well the old bats pissed me off so much i had to prove
them wrong!" LOL Guess you can tell that i still adore her <grin>.

I am sure her parents and her home life influenced her a great deal,
esp as a child. However she took responsibility for her life and her
choices in life.

> We all have free agency, but it's so much easier to cope with life
and make the correct choices when we've been taught how to do so, and
when we have support. With young kids, sometimes just knowing that
there's someone who cares makes so much difference. Not everyone has
the ability to stand on their own and make it!
>

I mostly agree with you here. However if you let ppl use the excuse
of how they are raised to justify their choices.. you are helping
them become weaker, not stronger.

> I imagine you're feeling a bit of a burn right now because your son
didn't make the correct choices.

Burn no..but a call to enlighten...absolutely. Sure wish id been a
little more enlightened. Chris was the hellion as a teenager..never
home on time, always arguing with me, that child could lie believably
by the time he was 4. If there was a rule made he had to break it
just to be sure i would enforce it. If i look at his life and ask
myself..why did this kid turn out so well and the other one has
problems..the answer is..his friends. He had one small group of very
close friends.. Jessie the artist. Jeremy the athlete (who lived with
us the last 2 years of high school after his parents moved to a
different town so he didnt have to change schools). Rick the
incorrigable who also pretty much grew up at my house from the time
he was 8. Hes now an aerospace engineer and a great guy..thought i
would never get him through the * i have to fight anyone that looks
at me* and * i want to drop out of school stages*. And Cheyenne ..who
always came over with his computer under his arm..and it wasnt a
laptop either lol.

Josh was never a problem of any kind. His teachers loved him, he had
great friends, played soccer..could have had a soccer scholarship. He
was my riding buddy, my hiking buddy. Until he made a bad choice..and
he made an EDUCATED bad choice. And although his father is still
trying to accept some of the blame himself, and its still hard for me
not to blame myself..the reality is that JOSH made the choice ..even
knowing the possible consequences. The responsibility for that choice
lies with Josh.

If theres one thing that Id like parents of younger children to
REALLY listen to...its keep a close eye on your kids friends. I
firmly believe their friends have as big of an influence as their
family.... if not more so.

I am a firm believer in work ethic. When the boys turned 16 they were
required to find jobs. Chris didnt want to..but he did, Josh couldnt
wait to turn 16 to work at a *real* job (hed been working summers
with our construction crews).

He went to work at Wendys. Jobs build character right? Not always.
Within 6 months he was a different kid. With hind sight of course now
i know why..but at the time i thought it was just typical teenage
rebellion. Even his doctor missed it and hed been josh ped since josh
was 6 months old. His reaction on being told Josh was addicted to
meth was just like everyone elses..not JOSH! He even missed it after
Joshs car wreck..assumed he was just trying to do to much living and
fell asleep at the wheel.

The biggest clue, and i missed it, was his friends changed. None of
his old friends were around anymore (and all the kids always hung out
at my house)and he didnt seem to want me to get to know any of his
new friends from work. Duh..but i missed it..because..well not Josh.
So i guess thats why i feel like parents need to not kid themselfs
that if they do everything right their kids wont make bad choices..so
that they dont miss it if and when it happens.. like i did.

>Your son is young though, and it's impossible to say that how he was
raised when he was little won't have an impact on how he lives his
life. He very well may straighten up and hark back to a strong
foundation and be a really great person. Most of us stumble a few
times before we learn to walk! It's pretty harsh to completely
condemn him because of one stumble.
>

Hes made more than one stumble in the last 3 years believe me lol.
And your right, he may well straighten out his life..but if he does
it will not be because of anything that *I* do or his *father* does
or anyone else besides JOSH making the CHOICE to do something about
the mess hes made of his life.

>
> I guess it's a matter of odds. I can't guarantee my kids will
always make the best choices, but I can at least increase the odds by
making sure that they understand their choices, the consequences of
those choices, and that they know without a doubt that they DO have
>choices.

This paragraph is exactly how i feel. Im not sure how you read the
other into what i said..but it made for a good debate lol.

> They also need to know that no matter what, their Mom and Dad will
be there for them. Of all the things I lost when my parents spilt,
that's the one that to this day hurts me the most!
>
> Liz
>

I think thats really sad. I dont think any child should ever feel
that there is anything that can happen or anything that they can do
that will cost them their parents love. Even through all of this
stuff with Josh he has always known that we both love him. Love
doesnt mean that i'm going to enable him, or approve of what he does,
but no matter what choices he makes he knows that my love is a
constant. Just as i always knew that my parents love was a constant.

Cheryl
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com

----- Original Message -----

From: mpocgn

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:53 AM

Subject: [training-horses] Herbal Remedies

I just joined this group to seek out help with my 15-year-old TWH
mare.  She had four foals, but I have not bred her since I bought her
and it seems she is always in heat!  I don't want to use Regumate due
to the expense.  Just wondering if anyone has had any success with any
herbal remedies.

Thanks!





To unsubscribe to this list go to yahoo groups and login in.  Go to "My groups" and find training-horses and click unsubscribe.

----- Original Message -----

From: LazyL

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:01 AM

Subject: Re: [training-horses] Kid's training/horse training was taxes

Today is a stay at home day for our schools.  Youve gotta love these small schools.  The ski place closes after this weekend so they give us the option of coming to school, going skiing or staying home.  I have a bunch of homework to get caught up on so I decided to stay at the house.  I've been reading these emails and they really "hit home" with me.  Up till I came to live with my uncle I was allowed to do whatever I wanted to do.  I could go to school if I wanted to.  I could smoke drink or do drugs if I wanted.  I could have a boyfriend at the house and it didn't matter if mom was home or not.  I came to live with my uncle and aunt last year and boy did things change.  We don't have many rules, but we really do.  I wish I knew how to explain it.  We are allowed to make all of our decisions.  If they are the right decisions everything is ok.  If we make the wrong ones then we talk about why it is the wrong decision and what options do we have.  I wanted a "friend" to come over to the house and no one else would be home except for us.  I asked my folks and they asked what I should do.  I said let the guy come over.  Nothing was going to happen.  My uncle said that wouldn't be a good idea and then explained why it wouldn't be a good idea.  I really understood what he was explaining.  I told my friend that he couldn't come over and why.  He got mad.  Come to find out he wanted to come over hoping to be able to do more than watch tv together.  I don't think I have ever heard my folks say "no" to us even if it was a bad choice.  They kinda guide us to a good choice.  I don't know how to explain it any better.  I just wish when I was little that someone had been there to help me make the right choices instead of letting me do what I wanted to do. 

 

Thanks for letting me share some thoughts.  Livvy.

----- Original Message -----

From: LazyL

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:35 AM

Subject: [training-horses] Kid's training/horse training was taxes

Good Morning Everyone,

I haven't read one negative post about the police, the MP's or the authorities being called to help teach a child a lesson.  I have told the boys that my grandfather was very strict.  I would be disciplined by being grounded if my grades dropped into the the "B" category.  My grandfather knew I could do better and expected me to live up to my potential.  There were very few times that corporal punishment was ever used on me or any of the other grandchildren (I happened to be the oldest).  The worst punishment came when we felt that we had disappointed our grandfather...alright, the real punishment was when you had to go and pick your own switch to be whipped with...now that was cruel and unusual punishment...

 

I remember Clinton Anderson saying at an expo that if the horse has enough energy to do the wrong thing then the horse has enough energy to do the right thing...can not that be applied to our children.  I also remember him saying something along the lines that if he trained the horse while it was still young that the horse would not have many bad habits to overcome when it is older...Again, I ask if that same principle can be used with our children.  I think what happens with horses (and our children) is that we don't spend the vast amount of time required to train our horses and kids to do the right thing and then we get frustrated with them when they do the wrong thing. 

 

I would rather work my horse hour after hour and day after day rather than end up on the ground because he was spoiled and didn't want to work that day (that's happened once.  Alright, it was twice...).  I would rather take the time and have my child learn a lesson about theft when he was young rather than visit him in jail when he is older.  We have taken the boys on visits to a jail, a halfway house, a drug and alcohol recovery center, a homeless shelter and several other places.  Let me throw in one verse from the Bible that I hope no one will become offended by..."Train up a child in the way they should go and when they are old they will not depart from it."  BTW the "old" found in the verse means when the child is old enough to begin to make decisions for themselves.  Which meant around 13 years of age.

 

Have a great day...

Ricky

----- Original Message -----

From: lisa greene

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:17 AM

Subject: Re: [training-horses] Gus and taxes

Linda,

  I thought about the cruelty thing, talked it over w/ both of his parents, and all of us agreed that it would be far better to be deemed cruel then to let him be a thief. So far, he hasn't stolen anything else that we know of, but .... I think it's a great idea, was used a lot yrs ago, and kids should have the crap scared out of them for doing stupid stuff. That's how we learned- and how our parents learned- I don't think it was a bad thing.

   Lisa

---

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----- Original Message -----

From: Liz

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:17 AM

Subject: Re: [training-horses] Kid's training/horse training was taxes

Sage advise comes in many forms, even from the bible! (Sorry Ricky, I'm a pretty devout atheist, but I do enjoy the stories in the bible much the way I enjoy any other historical account. And I don't mean any disrespect in saying that!).

 

The oldest of my two younger brothers is in federal prison serving a 20+ year sentence for 4 counts of armed bank robbery. He's only 20 years old. It's heart breaking. He had a very rough time of it growing up. My parents divorced when I was almost 14 and the brother in question was about 7. My Mom had joined a cult, found herself a new man (the cult leader no less), and had abandoned myself and my 3 siblings while my Dad was working out of state (I spent about 6 months as a 13 year old being in charge of running a household, the barn, the kids ages 8,6 and 1), etc). It was a pretty big mess when my Dad finally realized what was going on and came and got us (I was under severe threat to not reveal anything to my Dad when he called home). That was about 14 years ago, and my parents are still fighting! It won't end until the youngest is 18 and they can no longer use any of us kids as leverage against each other.  It's insane. As a result, my younger siblings had just about no consistency or guidance growing up. They bounced from family member to family member, back and forth between my parents, my Dad remarried and divorced twice more. He himself was a very dishonest person and was very much into taking advantage of the system and thought nothing of taking things that weren't his, stealing from his place of employee, cheating, lying etc. My mother quite literally went insane. I exclude myself from this a little bit because my parents were pretty decent as I was growing up, so I had a fairly normal childhood till the end. I had a foundation to look back on for guidance on how to behave. My siblings (the youngest of which was just over a year old when all hell broke loose) don't even remember what it was like to have a 'regular' family, never mind any moral foundation.

 

Anyway, this isn't a 'poor me' post. My rambling point is that parents need to be involved in their kids lives. My brother is brilliant, funny, handsome as all get out, kind, loving, and has no concept or right and wrong. If someone had just held onto him when he was little and helped him stay on the strait and narrow he wouldn't be sitting in jail right now. It makes me SO angry that no one cared enough about him as a kid to take the time to discipline him. Even as a young child he was getting into trouble (stealing candy from the store, taking his friends toys, etc) and my Dad never had enough time (or just didn't care enough) to take him to task.

 

It's hard to discipline a person you love as much as your child. I hate to see my kids upset, or crying. But I tell you what, they WILL grow up knowing right from wrong and they WILL understand the consequences of their actions both good and bad, and they WILL have a family.  My middle son is so much like my brother it makes me cry sometimes. He looks so much like him, and acts so much like him. It breaks my heart to think that there was no one around when John (my brother) was little to take care of him.

 

But this is totally off topic and I need to go find a kleenex and I'll blame it on allergies!!

 

Thanks for letting me rant! I got a letter from my brother yesterday and it's always harder right after hearing from him.

 

Liz

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: LazyL

Let me throw in one verse from the Bible that I hope no one will become offended by..."Train up a child in the way they should go and when they are old they will not depart from it."  BTW the "old" found in the verse means when the child is old enough to begin to make decisions for themselves.  Which meant around 13 years of age.

 

Have a great day...

Ricky

 

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You need to have your mare examined by a vet.  Constant heat can be a
indicator of an ovarian tumor.  Or uterine infecttions can cause a mare
to act like she is constantly in heat.

Cindy D.


> I just joined this group to seek out help with my 15-year-old TWH
> mare.  She had four foals, but I have not bred her since I bought her
> and it seems she is always in heat!  I don't want to use Regumate due
> to the expense.  Just wondering if anyone has had any success
> with any
> herbal remedies.
>
> Thanks!

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005

Cheryl,


I agree with you there.  God is my guide, but if I chose wrong then it's my
fault not his.  I try to do my best with my boys to let them know right from
wrong, but I know in the end it will be there chose.


Karen

----- Original Message -----

From: Cheryl

Many things influence our choices in life..our family, our environment,
our friends, our teachers, our ministers, etc etc..but ultimately WE
make the choices in our lifes..and only we can accept the
responsibility or blame for the results caused by that choice.

Cheryl
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com







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----- Original Message -----

From: K T

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 11:22 AM

Subject: Re: [training-horses] Re: Kid's training/horse training was taxes

Liz,


I agree with you, but in a few cases kids that have grown up with
abusive/alcoholic's as parents grow-up to have nothing to do with that kind
of stuff.  I am one of those.  I don't drink and I have never have hurt my
boys infact when I get mad at them I leave the room and calm down because I
am scared I would hurt them.

Karen




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--- In training-horses@yahoogroups.com, "K T" <shizukana@h...> wrote:
> Liz,
>
>
> I agree with you, but in a few cases kids that have grown up with
> abusive/alcoholic's as parents grow-up to have nothing to do with
that kind
> of stuff.  I am one of those.  I don't drink and I have never have
hurt my
> boys infact when I get mad at them I leave the room and calm down
because I
> am scared I would hurt them.
>
> Karen

My mother grew up with a very abusive mother. My grandmother had
scarlet fever when she was thirteen and her intellect never matured
past that point. At 17 she married a man who was in his 60s and had
first my uncle and then my mother. He died when my mom was 4 months
old. Grandma raised both kids alone. They were extremely poor and my
mom was expected to keep her older brother in line. If he refused to
leave his friends and come home for dinner, for instance, mom would
get a beating for that.

My mother raised her children refusing to spank us or let my father
spank us. She is one of the strongest, wisest, most empathetic women
i know and if i had to name just one person who influenced my life
the most it would definitely be my mother.

Its really the same thing i was discussing with Liz only in reverse.
Kids who are raised with all the disadvantages and poor influences in
life can and DO chose to make the right choices in their own lifes.

Each of us controls our own destiny with the choices we make. I chose
a long time ago to let God guide me in those choices..but I am still
responsible for the choices i make..good or bad..right or wrong..not
my parents, not my teachers, not my siblings, and not God.

Cheryl
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com

--- In training-horses@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <sandoz@c...> wrote:
> Ya know, I agree to some extent.
>
> Unfortunately, there's just overwhelming information that says kids
do what they are taught. Kids who grow up with alcoholic or abusive
parents are much more prone to becoming so themselves. Overwhelmingly
so actually. Having strong, supportive parents and families makes a
world of difference. Kids will grow into adults and make their own
choices, but they don't even have a hope of making good choices if they
haven't been taught the difference between right and wrong.
>
> Liz

Anyone who truly believes that *kids do what they are taught* has never
raised a teenager LOL. I do agree that for the most part kids chose to
live the life they are used to. So if they are raised in alcholic homes
then alcohol seems *normal* to them, the same with abuse, drugs, etc.
However kids who are taught right from wrong can and DO make the wrong
choices in life..and one wrong choice typically leads to another, etc.

I am sitting here grinning because i spent 30 years believing just as
you do and expressing that opinion a LOT. I have spent most of my life
raising kids, mine and other others. I had my own day care for years,
and took all the early childhood behavioral courses in order to have my
license. I stayed home with my kids, controlled their diets and their
tv and their friends, their activities, their environment their
choices. Ah..but in the end the life they choose to lead is just
that..their choice...and their genes are their genes. And all the
guidance and influence is just that in the end..influence.

Have you ever noticed that those who are quickest to give parenting
advice (and i dont mean this personally towards you so dont take it
wrong) are those whose kids are still under 20...and usually under 16.
The rest of us already KNOW that no one has all answers, esp us LOL.

It would be easy to blame my parents for not recognizing my deafness
sooner. If they had my life would have been different in many ways. My
brother could blame them for not controling his choice of friends,
which would have changed his life. One sister could certainly chose to
blame them for her choice of a husband. The other perhaps for the fact
that she always felt like an outcast as a child. But the reality is, we
all made choices that determined the paths we took in life.. just as
your brother did. And we all accepted the responsibility for those poor
choices and did what we had to do to overcome the consequence of them.
Sure your parents could obviously have been a better influence..but the
fact is still that your brother CHOSE to do what he did, and the
ultimate responsibility is his.

It drives me insane to see ppl who have done something bad say.. oh but
i came from a bad neighborhood, rough family life, etc etc. The fact is
that a LOT of ppl, if not most, had SOMETHING rough in their life ..but
they made different choices.

Many things influence our choices in life..our family, our environment,
our friends, our teachers, our ministers, etc etc..but ultimately WE
make the choices in our lifes..and only we can accept the
responsibility or blame for the results caused by that choice.

Cheryl
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com

Liz,


I agree with you, but in a few cases kids that have grown up with
abusive/alcoholic's as parents grow-up to have nothing to do with that kind
of stuff.  I am one of those.  I don't drink and I have never have hurt my
boys infact when I get mad at them I leave the room and calm down because I
am scared I would hurt them.

Karen

----- Original Message -----

From: mpocgn

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:53 AM

Subject: [training-horses] Herbal Remedies

I just joined this group to seek out help with my 15-year-old TWH
mare.  She had four foals, but I have not bred her since I bought her
and it seems she is always in heat!  I don't want to use Regumate due
to the expense.  Just wondering if anyone has had any success with any
herbal remedies.

Thanks!





To unsubscribe to this list go to yahoo groups and login in.  Go to "My groups" and find training-horses and click unsubscribe.

----- Original Message -----

From: Cheryl

I think its human nature to believe that if we just do everything right
it will all BE alright.. thats called hope. However when your dealing
with a living creature, be they horse or human.. you can only
influence.. you cant control... thats called reality lol.

Cheryl
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com






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I just joined this group to seek out help with my 15-year-old TWH
mare.  She had four foals, but I have not bred her since I bought her
and it seems she is always in heat!  I don't want to use Regumate due
to the expense.  Just wondering if anyone has had any success with any
herbal remedies.

Thanks!

Lisa,


I am so glad that you and others here don't think bad of me for doing it.  I
agree that it is the first step into a life style that will be much worst.
We have aked Mike if he remembers it and he only remembers haivng cuffs on.
4 is a little young, but I think he got the picture he has never done
anything like that again.  Now he just puts things in the cart and hopes mom
don't notice until it's been rang up.  Most times I see it and just let it
go through as nither of my boys ask for much.  That is way when my boys told
me what kind of horse they want I am doing my best to get it for them.  When
I get my place it's going to have a bunch of different horses.  To start
with it will have 1 MFT(dusty), 1 Appy Mare, 1 Appy/TB, and 1 TWH.  We hit
another road block with our place last night.  They want a letter of awards
for Elton's retirerment.  It needs to say how long the retirerment is for.
lol  Elton spent over an hour trying to get to speck to a real person the
government to see if they can send one out.  It will be here in a few days,
but while it's in the mail we are once again just sitting still.


Karen

I believe that every parent wants to believe that if they just raise
their kids right they will turn out okay. We want to believe that by
doing all the *right* things we can control their destiny.
Unfortunately every human being at some point starts making their own
decisions in life and when they do from that point on they control
their own destiny. All we as parents can do is stack the deck in their
favor.

Of my 2 sons and 3 stepsons Josh would have been the least likely of
the 5 to end up in trouble. Hes the only one that played organized
sports. The only one that took school seriously and worked hard at it.
He was an active outside kind of kid who watched very little tv and had
a lot of close friends. The only one that *always* lived life by the
rules. The only one that *never* lied or cheated in any way. The one
with the most empathy towards others and the strongest conscience. And
on and on and on..

I grew up in a rough neighborhood in a small town. I was blessed with a
wonderful family. Looking back now though at both the kids i grew up
with on the wrong side of the tracks and the kids who as a child i
would have sworn had life made.. its pretty much a toss up. A lot of
the kids that really had the deck stacked against them have done very
well in life..and a lot that had life easy have really screwed their
lifes up.

I think its human nature to believe that if we just do everything right
it will all BE alright.. thats called hope. However when your dealing
with a living creature, be they horse or human.. you can only
influence.. you cant control... thats called reality lol.

Cheryl
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com

----- Original Message -----

From: LazyL

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:35 AM

Subject: [training-horses] Kid's training/horse training was taxes

Good Morning Everyone,

I haven't read one negative post about the police, the MP's or the authorities being called to help teach a child a lesson.  I have told the boys that my grandfather was very strict.  I would be disciplined by being grounded if my grades dropped into the the "B" category.  My grandfather knew I could do better and expected me to live up to my potential.  There were very few times that corporal punishment was ever used on me or any of the other grandchildren (I happened to be the oldest).  The worst punishment came when we felt that we had disappointed our grandfather...alright, the real punishment was when you had to go and pick your own switch to be whipped with...now that was cruel and unusual punishment...

 

I remember Clinton Anderson saying at an expo that if the horse has enough energy to do the wrong thing then the horse has enough energy to do the right thing...can not that be applied to our children.  I also remember him saying something along the lines that if he trained the horse while it was still young that the horse would not have many bad habits to overcome when it is older...Again, I ask if that same principle can be used with our children.  I think what happens with horses (and our children) is that we don't spend the vast amount of time required to train our horses and kids to do the right thing and then we get frustrated with them when they do the wrong thing. 

 

I would rather work my horse hour after hour and day after day rather than end up on the ground because he was spoiled and didn't want to work that day (that's happened once.  Alright, it was twice...).  I would rather take the time and have my child learn a lesson about theft when he was young rather than visit him in jail when he is older.  We have taken the boys on visits to a jail, a halfway house, a drug and alcohol recovery center, a homeless shelter and several other places.  Let me throw in one verse from the Bible that I hope no one will become offended by..."Train up a child in the way they should go and when they are old they will not depart from it."  BTW the "old" found in the verse means when the child is old enough to begin to make decisions for themselves.  Which meant around 13 years of age.

 

Have a great day...

Ricky

----- Original Message -----

From: lisa greene

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:17 AM

Subject: Re: [training-horses] Gus and taxes

Linda,

  I thought about the cruelty thing, talked it over w/ both of his parents, and all of us agreed that it would be far better to be deemed cruel then to let him be a thief. So far, he hasn't stolen anything else that we know of, but .... I think it's a great idea, was used a lot yrs ago, and kids should have the crap scared out of them for doing stupid stuff. That's how we learned- and how our parents learned- I don't think it was a bad thing.

   Lisa

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--- In training-horses@yahoogroups.com, "Annalee" <pasogal@a...>
wrote:

> I'm planning on moving her the last week in April.  I think it
would be
> really nice if we could each have a couple of days with our "new to
the
> place horses" before moving in 2 "new to the place" horses...but
we'll see.

Sometimes its easier when all the horses are new to each other and
the place. You dont have to deal with one or two horses that want to
push everyone around. Would probably be easier for the humans to get
used to each other more slowly though lol.

>
> I found the website of the guy who made my rope halter and lead so
you can
> look at it:
http://www.leanintranch.com/gallery/gallery_pic_frame.htm enjoy!
>
> Annalee

What a cool website! Thanks Annalee :)

Cheryl
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com

----- Original Message -----

From: LazyL

Let me throw in one verse from the Bible that I hope no one will become offended by..."Train up a child in the way they should go and when they are old they will not depart from it."  BTW the "old" found in the verse means when the child is old enough to begin to make decisions for themselves.  Which meant around 13 years of age.

 

Have a great day...

Ricky

 

> 1. Do you use natural horsemanship tack such as rope halters, mecate
> reins, etc?  I had a pair of john lyons reins from a few years ago..
>
> 2. Have you heard of Samson Stable Braid? no
>
> 3. If so what is your opinion of it? n/a
>
> 4. If not what is the rope material of your natural horsemanship tack
> made from or whats it look like? It was some kind of white rope stuff..they
disappeared so don't remember
>
> 5. Which is more important to you when it comes to tack.. price or
> quality? well I like better quality and will pay more for it
>
> 6. If you had to chose between white reins and black reins which
> color would you chose? black
>
> 7. what do you like most about the natural horsemanship tack you are
> using? I liked the feel of the reins
>
> 8. What do you like least?
>
> Thanks!
>
I'm probably not much help..but I will say I love round reins now,
especially that I mostly ride two handed on my mare with a snaffle. I
had a pair of roping reins and liked them but they were too short for
my mare almost because she put her head down so much..I would like to
find longer roping reins than what they usually sell. Or split reins I
guess. I really want to get some thin rope halters for trail riding
too. Always wanted to before but never did. Although at the rate the
court case is going I will be lucky if I have my paint mare back by
sometime this summer..grr.
--
Erin/Mi
Zander 11/19/04
Skyler 03/28/00

--- In training-horses@yahoogroups.com, Monnie Sims <lmrats@y...>
wrote:
>
> 1. Do you use natural horsemanship tack such as rope halters,
mecate
> reins, etc? Yes I have a rope halter w/aussie knots. A set of sport
reins connected to an AB set up and a 14' lead rope hooked up like a
mecate set up.
>

I had to look at your website to see what you were talking about with
the AB. Ive never seen a rope halter used as a side pull. Does it
work well? I certainly like the concept.


> 3. If so what is your opinion of it? take it or leave it, couple of
other brands work as well. It's the extra knots that are the plus...
>

I dont like the extra knots in my rope halters. We have gaited horses
and i dont want them lowering their heads too low to avoid things and
that seems to be what happens when i use rope halters with knots. Of
course qhs are supposed to work with a lower head so that would be
different Im sure. My sister has a ponyboy rope halter and its put
together with the same concept as the *be nice* brand halters. Ouch.
Your using the 1/4" samson for rope halters, i agree theres a lot of
good roping out there in the 1/4" that works as well for rope halters
as the samson does. What im using now is a poly blend like your using
and it sells well for me but i like the feel of the stable braid
better versus the poly braid. I'm considering using the 1/2" size of
Samson for our reins though because its a lot softer and almost
impossible to snag.


> 6. If you had to chose between white reins and black reins which
> color would you chose? Black or hunter green
>

I get a lot of requests for hunter green and dont carry it. Next time
i do i'll send them your way! Btw your horses are beautiful i really
enjoyed your website.

Thanks!
Cheryl
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Cheryl

Its frustrating to try to figure out what makes hard keepers hard
keepers isnt it. Flash is finally starting to look pretty good. I
cant see his ribs any longer, though i can still feel them, and his
hips and backbone are no longer sticking out. He looked sooo bad that
its taken almost 2 months to get him back to half of normal poor guy.

Everyone else looks good coming out of winter though Foxy, Misty and
Vinny are a bit thinner than Id like. It wont take them long to fill
back out once the spring grass is in. Vinny and Foxy both are 2 and
both have very large ribcages so they tend to feel a little ribby
unless they are actually fat. Joe was the same way until he 2 and
then he started filling out all over much better...kind of grew into
that big chest lol.

Cheryl
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com





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----- Original Message -----

From: lisa greene

To: training-horses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:17 AM

Subject: Re: [training-horses] Gus and taxes

Linda,

  I thought about the cruelty thing, talked it over w/ both of his parents, and all of us agreed that it would be far better to be deemed cruel then to let him be a thief. So far, he hasn't stolen anything else that we know of, but .... I think it's a great idea, was used a lot yrs ago, and kids should have the crap scared out of them for doing stupid stuff. That's how we learned- and how our parents learned- I don't think it was a bad thing.

   Lisa

---

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Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.

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--- In training-horses@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <sandoz@c...> wrote:
> Can you make one in a pony size Cheryl? *G*
>

Yep, and it fits ponies pretty well. I had the same problem with
Buddy and halters but Missys head isnt really pony sized she fits
fine in a regular horse halter.

> I've never used a rope halter, but I still don't have a halter that
fits Honey really well. I'd have to look at the one I'm using, but I
think it's an adjustable yearling halter. Horse yearling and pony
just do not have the same proportions!
>

Try a cob sized halter, they work pretty well on ponies. Im pretty
sure that i have a pony sized halter in the tack room too that i
bought for someone and it didnt fit.

> She'd be a really, really good experiment to see which rope has
more bite! You know that lovely pony mentality.... sometimes it makes
me want to bite her. Too bad she has so much hair...
>

LOL gotta love a pony..even when your mad at them!

> While we're on this subject, does anyone like regular old flat
leather reins anymore? I love my soft, flexible leather reins. I love
my cotton lead ropes, love my thick cotton longe line, but man I
wouldn't part with my leather reins for nothin', and I've tried a lot!
>
> Liz

I have some braided leather trail reins that i LOVE..but Ive never
liked that flat leather reins, not even as a kid. Its raelly hard for
me to grip something flat so I think thats a lot of it. I even tried
a pair of flat braided reins and didnt like them either. Funny how
you get really hooked on something that feels *right* to you and it
sure is hard to use anything else! Im like that with all my tack. Den
will use whatevers there most of the time lol.

Im gimping today. Pulled something in my knee. You know i'm really
irritated because i unload feed, and walk bumpy muddy pasture, ride,
work horses in the round pen all that kind of stuff that should be
hard on knees and though my arthritis is bad in most of my joints my
knees rarely bother me. So i have my ariat boots on yesterday and i
have my leg stretched out in front of me and i'm pulling to tighten
them and my heel slips and i tore something in my knee *tying me shoe!
* ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG LOL


Cheryl
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com

Cheryl wrote:
>
> I think it looks perfect..that pic of the trail made me want to go
> explore! When do you move Cara?
>
I'm planning on moving her the last week in April.  I think it would be
really nice if we could each have a couple of days with our "new to the
place horses" before moving in 2 "new to the place" horses...but we'll see.
Figure to introduce them over the fence (grass pasture/dry lot) to see how
they get along.  The other new gal's horse pulled up lame the other day so
she's waiting (I think) to see how he does before making any specific plans.

I found the website of the guy who made my rope halter and lead so you can
look at it: http://www.leanintranch.com/gallery/gallery_pic_frame.htm enjoy!

Annalee

--- In training-horses@yahoogroups.com, Tina Carroll <tcar50@t...>
wrote:
> Sure Cheryl,
> There is probably 1/2 the list that would try them for you.
> Tina C
>

Yeah but you already have the narrow one so i'd only have to send you
one and theyd need two lol.

Cheryl
*whose definitely in lazy mode this morning!*
http://www.summerwindsfoxtrotterfarm.com