the_click_that_teaches : Messages : 8461-8493 of 8552

**I would love to see a video of this.**

I found the camera has to be up close to show some of the muscles *they are quite small). From a distance it can look like he is standing still and I am clicking and praising like an maniac for no reason ! I tried to hold the camera and do the clicking at the same time...not good, the camera was all over the place and it was like being on a ship watching the video back !

So when my 'lovely assistant' returns next week we will hopefully have a few sunny days and get some good footage.

**How long did it take for classic to find out?**

Once he figured out pectoral flexes, he was off and running with pilates and making it his own. He just loves it. His pilates pose is his default behaviour and he always tries to offer a little extra in the hope that he can earn a jackpot treat :-)

His pilates pose is also his way of telling me is comfortable with a new environment. Once he feels ok with it all he will pose. This makes it very interesting if we are near a field of cattle when we are out riding and they all run (never seen a horse and a fluorescent clad person before) and Classic will pose....he's telling me he's ok with this. Maybe others will read this and think he is telling me something else, but I have spent many hours responding to Classic's 'off cue' behaviours to try and work out what he means, and his pilates pose is definitely, 'I'm ok with this'. Him offering head lowering in that situation, whole other story.

**And what is your signal or how do you change the focus which part of his muscles he should work?**

The timing of my click. I wish I could get the muscle crunches and Classic's facial expressions on the video at the same time. When I change what I am looking for, the click will no longer appear for the previous 'golden' behaviour. He will look round at me with a puzzled expression, 'I did that one well, are you sure I shouldn't get a click ?'. Then he goes in to thinking mode and internalises while he tries to figure out what is now the golden behaviour. When he gets it, his facial expression is 'AHA !!', and he gives a victorious swish of his tail :-) He has me in hysterics most days ! He even has a 'THAT was it !?, are you sure ?!' expression as well. Too funny.

However, this is not how I started out with changing to a new muscle group. I can do it this way now because he knows it so well and he knows how to explore his body. When I started pilates with him he would be offering me more and more of the stomach crunches and I would watch to see what that did to the other muscle groups. If I saw something I liked, I could change the timing of my click just a fraction to now be clicking for the consequence of the stomach crunches. The fact that I was changing my click by a small fraction of a second meant that his rate of reinforcement did not go down, thus keeping him motivated, and after a few clicks he figured out that he was no longer being clicked for stomach crunches and would be actively offering the new muscle group. We could then shape that muscle group to work on it's own and not as a consequence of the stomach crunches. So it was in small slivers that I taught him about other muscle groups.

Amanda

#8492

From: Heike Uthmann <Heike@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:05 am
Subject: Re: Micro-shaping belly crunches

mirko210

Offline

Am 20.11.2009 um 10:49 schrieb Amanda:

So we can get a back lift from the pelvis tilt, or from engagement of the hips or from a contraction of the back muscles. They all look different and so must be activating and stretching different muscles. Then I watched for other muscles activating and we can now isolate pretty much any muscle I ask for. It takes time for him to figure out how to isolate each one, but he can do it.....my favourite is the muscle at his withers (the one that can often atrophy with poorly fitting saddles). That really gets a sharp intake of breath from people when his entire body is still and he activates that muscle on it's own.

great story of yours, Amanda!! I would love to see a video of this.

As a beginner in horse physiotherapy I am learning too that everything is starting with the stomach muscles.

It is so interesting that you find out he can manage to seperate all of the muscles a riding horse needs to lift up his back and to go into engagement of the hind end.

How long did it take for classic to find out? And what is your signal or how do you change the focus which part of his muscels he should work?

Heike

#8491

From: Amanda <ccpearl@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:49 am
Subject: Re: Micro-shaping belly crunches

adsc3

Offline

**This weekend I am going to video tape Palio (Sarah Memmi's horse). He has been doing crunches much longer than Sante has, and the engagement of his stomach muscles is more obvious.**

This is a great conversation....I love detail, so does Classic :-) Brody is not sure about the detail yet....it doesn't quite float his boat and light his candles the way it does for Classic and I.

I actively taught pilates the other way around. I taught stomach crunches after the pec flexes. The back lift and contraction of the back muscles were a consequence of his core muscles developing. Then I saw the pelvis tilt start and so I rewarded the pelvis tilt as well (the pelvis tilt is not the same as him engaging/activating his hips in pilates). My idea behind starting with the stomach crunches was that I needed him to develop his core muscles to carry himself better. Then I could add to his core muscles.

So we can get a back lift from the pelvis tilt, or from engagement of the hips or from a contraction of the back muscles. They all look different and so must be activating and stretching different muscles. Then I watched for other muscles activating and we can now isolate pretty much any muscle I ask for. It takes time for him to figure out how to isolate each one, but he can do it.....my favourite is the muscle at his withers (the one that can often atrophy with poorly fitting saddles). That really gets a sharp intake of breath from people when his entire body is still and he activates that muscle on it's own.

So much fun :-)

Last winter Classic was very poorly and he was at the vet hospital as an outpatient a few times. His first major symptom of anything going on was that his back spasmed, the whole length. My referral vet recommended a course of acupuncture. I realised I had quite a forward thinking vet here and so decided to share that I did pilates with Classic. He was immediately fascinated and asked me to show him.

With Classic's back being so locked up the vet did not get to see the full display of Classic's pilates but he got the gist of it. When I described the sequence in which I trained each of the pilates moves he told me that in terms of training a riding horse this was perfect. He agreed that core stomach muscles were the ones to start with. He also said that, in his opinion, the reason Classic was still as mobile as he was despite having his back so ceased was due to the pilates !! He thought this was a great preventative and remedial therapy for horses.

As Classic was getting better, I had him checked out by an osteopath. Again, I shared the pilates with him and he too supported this training and said that the only reason Classic was not locked up (due to what he had been through) was because of the pilates.

Support from the professional equine community for Alex's equine pilates :-)

Amanda

#8490

From: Barbara Handelman <bhandelman2@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:03 am
Subject: Re: Micro-shaping belly crunches

bhandelman2

Offline

http://woofandwordpress.com

Hi Cynthia,

The movement of his topline is much more visible. Keep in mind we are just beginning. There are a few examples when he engages his stomach muscles too, those are the ones I put into slow motion.

This weekend I am going to video tape Palio (Sarah Memmi's horse). He has been doing crunches much longer than Sante has, and the engagement of his stomach muscles is more obvious.

Barbara

Barbara Handelman, M.Ed, CDBC, Certified Behavior Consultant, IAABC Member #056

Norwich, Vermont, 802 649-5213

Now Available: "Canine Behavior: A Photo-Illustrated Handbook"

DVD Creator:

"Clicker Train Your Own Assistance Dog"

Blog: www.woofandwordpress.com/blog

> He's not very proficient yet, but if you watch his top line you can
> see the recruitment of multiple muscle groups, especially in the clips
> I've repeated in slow motion.

So is this what people are looking for? What Sante is doing during the
head up crunches looks a great deal like what I am getting from Ansel
but I wasn't sure it was what I really wanted. I can really easily see
Sante contract his back muscles but it isn't obvious to me that he is
contracting his stomach muscles to match.

#8489

From: Cynthia Kiser <cnk@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:51 am
Subject: Re: Micro-shaping belly crunches

computerese2001

Offline

Quoting Barbara Handelman <bhandelman2@...>:
> You can find the clips on YouTube  at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBlEtCBWjZk

Interesting video, thanks for posting it.

> He's not very proficient yet, but if you watch his top line you can
> see the recruitment of multiple muscle groups, especially in the clips
> I've repeated in slow motion.

So is this what people are looking for? What Sante is doing during the
head up crunches looks a great deal like what I am getting from Ansel
but I wasn't sure it was what I really wanted. I can really easily see
Sante contract his back muscles but it isn't obvious to me that he is
contracting his stomach muscles to match.

#8488

From: Barbara Handelman <bhandelman2@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:13 am
Subject: Micro-shaping belly crunches

bhandelman2

Offline

http://woofandwordpress.com

Hi Jane,

Every once in a while I will cue the head down, but only one time, and only if he hasn't gotten the contextual cue that comes from my changing my position relative to his. When I am looking for belly crunches head up, I position myself at his side and stare at his belly. If I want him to put his head down, I position myself closer to his head. He has known head down on voice, hand, and rein cues for at least a year and has developed considerable duration. We started pairing the head down crunches with the head up crunches after we'd already been working on the head up crunches for about 4 sessions. Then I watched Brenda Buja's great video clips of Lucy doing crunches, and decided to add in the head down version. We do both in a single training session, switching back and forth between the two does great things for his balance, and for his persistence. He really loves free shaping, and micro-shaping.

I've noticed that when he's doing his head down crunches he'll sometimes pick up a front foot as if to bow. I don't intentionally click for that now. Once he is fluent with both forms of crunches I'll put them on a verbal cue (it will be a while!) I think I'll use the head down crunch as a foundation for his learning to bow. All I have to do is delay the click a smidgeon and he'll offer me more of whatever we have just been doing and if I wait a tiny bit longer he'll give the move a bit more moxie. If it's head down, he'll curve his neck more and reach farther toward his hooves. He's so much fun!

Barbara

Barbara Handelman, M.Ed, CDBC, Certified Behavior Consultant, IAABC Member #056

Norwich, Vermont, 802 649-5213

Now Available: "Canine Behavior: A Photo-Illustrated Handbook"

DVD Creator:

"Clicker Train Your Own Assistance Dog"

Blog: www.woofandwordpress.com/blog

On Nov 19, 2009, at 8:57 AM, Jane Jackson wrote:

Great videos Barbara! Were you cueing the head down between crunches or doing them at a separate time entirely? I think it�s very clever to do those two as a balance.
thanks
--
Jane
Bookends Farm
E. Ryegate, VT
www.bookendsfarm.com
www.bookendsfarm.blogspot.com/

#8487

From: Barbara Handelman <bhandelman2@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: Pilates

bhandelman2

Offline

http://woofandwordpress.com

You are brave to even try a tripod. Sante would LOVE to see what he could do with my camera!! I always prevail on humans to shoot my training sessions, I don't get as much film, but I still have my camera. I'd love to see the pilates too!

Barbara

Barbara Handelman, M.Ed, CDBC, Certified Behavior Consultant, IAABC Member #056

Norwich, Vermont, 802 649-5213

Now Available: "Canine Behavior: A Photo-Illustrated Handbook"

DVD Creator:

"Clicker Train Your Own Assistance Dog"

Blog: www.woofandwordpress.com/blog

On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:41 PM, Amanda wrote:

**He was trying to figure out how to work the camera! ha ha**

ha ha...I bet he was...if that horse had opposing thumbs he would be out of control !!

** KEEP TRYING because I'd LOVE to see the pilates in action!**

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#8486

From: Amanda <ccpearl@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:41 pm
Subject: Re: Pilates

adsc3

Offline

**He was trying to figure out how to work the camera! ha ha**

ha ha...I bet he was...if that horse had opposing thumbs he would be out of control !!

** KEEP TRYING because I'd LOVE to see the pilates in action!**

I will. My lovely assistant is home from vacation next week so I will see if she can film while I get Classic to do his pilates then it might work out better.

Amanda

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#8485

From: Karleen Hayden <peeweeponygal@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:50 pm
Subject: Pilates

peeweeponygal

Offline

Amanda wrote:
I've tried a number of times to get video of Classic doing his pilates but
the light never seems to be right on the video....that might be to do with
the fact that Classic was nosey about the video the first time it was in the
barn with us and he ended up knocking it over off it's tripod !

He was trying to figure out how to work the camera! ha ha KEEP TRYING because I'd LOVE to see the pilates in action!
Karleen

"I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be."
– Groucho Marx

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#8484

From: Jane Jackson <bookendsfarm@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:57 pm
Subject: Re: Micro-shaping belly crunches

bookendsfarm

Offline

Great videos Barbara! Were you cueing the head down between crunches or doing them at a separate time entirely? I think it’s very clever to do those two as a balance.
thanks
--
Jane
Bookends Farm
E. Ryegate, VT
www.bookendsfarm.com
www.bookendsfarm.blogspot.com/

#8483

From: Heike Uthmann <Heike@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:52 am
Subject: Re: Micro-shaping belly crunches

mirko210

Offline

Hi Barbara,

thanks so much for this video!

I like the way Sante is doing the crunches.... it is so clear to see how the muscels are working.

It is a nice video to show people what microshaping can look like.

thanks

Heike

Am 19.11.2009 um 07:01 schrieb Barbara Handelman:

I have uploaded some video clips of Sante doing belly crunches, a new
exercise which we are micro-shaping. The goals are greater balance,
relaxation, and muscle strength and control. Sante LOVES these
exercises and will continue to do them for as long as I'm willing. We
have gone on for as long as an hour, with him entering a near trance
like state of relaxation which carries over into whatever we do next:
riding, longeing, and jumping at liberty.

He's not very proficient yet, but if you watch his top line you can
see the recruitment of multiple muscle groups, especially in the clips
I've repeated in slow motion.

You can find the clips on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBlEtCBWjZk
Barbara

#8482

From: Amanda <ccpearl@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:37 am
Subject: Re: Micro-shaping belly crunches

adsc3

Offline

**Sante LOVES these
exercises and will continue to do them for as long as I'm willing.**

The micro shaping work is great isn't it ! Classic has been doing pilates since Alex first introduced the micro shaping and he just loves it. He loves it so much that I can use the various micro shaping moves he does as rewards for other behaviours. He also does pelvis tilts, back lifts and I can isolate any muscle I want him to isolate.....it's amazing how much detailed control they have over their bodies.

I've tried a number of times to get video of Classic doing his pilates but the light never seems to be right on the video....that might be to do with the fact that Classic was nosey about the video the first time it was in the barn with us and he ended up knocking it over off it's tripod !

Amanda

#8481

From: "Hertha James" <hertha.james@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:55 am
Subject: Re: Micro-shaping belly crunches

herthalina2000

Offline

Hi Barbara,

Your clips are great.  Very timely as I've been doing the tummy crunches for
a couple of months now, and, like your horse, mine asks to do them at the
end of every ride or play session and never seems to get tired of doing
them.  I'm sure it has improved her posture.

I watched a couple of your other clips as well - the jumping.  Funnily
enough, I started liberty cavaletti and jumps yesterday and tonight was our
second time.  I don't have them set up against a wall so i was really
tickled pink when she went over the 3-rail and 4-rail cavaletti and a big
log at my suggestion.  When we go to the bigger jump we trotted up and as I
trotted past one side she dodged over and trotted past the other side :-).
We did this about three times and the fourth time she jumped it and earned a
peppermint.

When we did it again, she went around 3 times again and then jumped it.  The
sequence would make a really funny circus trick.  I can hardly wait to see
what she comes up with tomorrow.

You sure can get some speed out of your chair!!!  My wonky knees don't allow
me to run very fast any more, but even at our brisk jog it is heaps of fun.

Cheers, Hertha


----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara Handelman" <bhandelman2@...>
To: "IAABC" <IAABC-L@yahoogroups.com>; <Horse_IAABC@yahoogroups.com>;
<ClickRyder@yahoogroups.com>; <the_click_that_teaches@yahoogroups.com>;
"Sarah Memmi" <sarah.memmi@...>; "brenda Buja" <Tigermutt@...>;
"Dee Ganley" <dee@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: [the_click_that_teaches] Micro-shaping belly crunches


>I have uploaded some video clips of Sante doing belly crunches, a new
> exercise which we are micro-shaping.  The goals are greater balance,
> relaxation, and muscle strength and control.  Sante LOVES these
> exercises and will continue to do them for as long as I'm willing.  We
> have gone on for as long as an hour, with him entering a near trance
> like state of relaxation which carries over into whatever we do next:
> riding, longeing, and jumping at liberty.
>
> He's not very proficient yet, but if you watch his top line you can
> see the recruitment of multiple muscle groups, especially in the clips
> I've repeated in slow motion.
>
> You can find the clips on YouTube  at
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBlEtCBWjZk
> Barbara
>
> Barbara Handelman, M.Ed, CDBC, Certified Behavior Consultant, IAABC
> Member #056
> Norwich, Vermont, 802 649-5213
> Now Available: "Canine Behavior: A Photo-Illustrated Handbook"
> http://woofandwordpress.com
> DVD Creator:
> "Clicker Train Your Own Assistance Dog"
> Blog: www.woofandwordpress.com/blog
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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#8480

From: Barbara Handelman <bhandelman2@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:01 am
Subject: Micro-shaping belly crunches

bhandelman2

Offline

I have uploaded some video clips of Sante doing belly crunches, a new
exercise which we are micro-shaping.  The goals are greater balance,
relaxation, and muscle strength and control.  Sante LOVES these
exercises and will continue to do them for as long as I'm willing.  We
have gone on for as long as an hour, with him entering a near trance
like state of relaxation which carries over into whatever we do next:
riding, longeing, and jumping at liberty.

He's not very proficient yet, but if you watch his top line you can
see the recruitment of multiple muscle groups, especially in the clips
I've repeated in slow motion.

You can find the clips on YouTube  at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBlEtCBWjZk
Barbara

Barbara Handelman, M.Ed, CDBC, Certified Behavior Consultant, IAABC
Member #056
Norwich, Vermont, 802 649-5213
Now Available: "Canine Behavior: A Photo-Illustrated Handbook"
http://woofandwordpress.com
DVD Creator:
"Clicker Train Your Own Assistance Dog"
Blog: www.woofandwordpress.com/blog

#8479

From: "Dolores Arste" <darste2@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:00 pm
Subject: Fw: Art and Science of Animal Training- Conference Updates

darste_1999

Offline

I'm signed up. Anyone else going?

Dolores

PROGRAM UPDATE:

Presentation descriptions for

THE ART AND SCIENCE OF ANIMAL TRAINING: INNOVATIONS AND REFINEMENTS

are now available at www.orgs.unt.edu/orca.

----------

SAMPLER:

ENGINEERING COMPLEX AND NOVEL BEHAVIOR IN ANIMALS

by Dr. Robert Epstein

Animal training usually consists of applying positive and negative consequences to behavior, strengthening some behavior and weakening other behavior until you get a desired performance. This is what psychologists call operant conditioning. But rewards and punishments only strengthen or weaken behavior that�s already occurring. You can�t get NEW behavior unless you know how to wait strategically; in a procedure called �shaping�, you wait for a bit of new behavior to occur and then reinforce it, and then you wait again until you get MORE new behavior, and so on. But here's a surprise: When you�re not training�which is most of the time!�you�re really waiting, and while you�re waiting, almost ALL behavior that occurs is new in some sense. The new behavior that occurs most of the time in virtually all animals (including people) is called �generative�, and laboratory experiments show that this kind of behavior is both orderly and predictable. It HAS to be orderly and predictable, or shaping couldn�t work! First developed in the 1980s, the Generativity Theory is a predictive, mathematical theory of generative behavior�in other words, of most of the behavior that occurs in real organisms most of the time. It has proved to be useful in both predicting and engineering complex behaviors in animals that is so extraordinary that it appears to have features of human �higher mental processes�. The theory can also be applied to improve the way we train animals.

READ MORE about other lectures by:

-Bob Bailey
-Alexandra Kurland
-Kay Laurence
-Steve Martin
-Ken Ramirez

at the ORCA website: www.orgs.unt.edu/orca

----------

Don't forget to register early, as seats are limited!

Jes�s Rosales-Ruiz
Associate Professor

Department of Behavior Analysis
University of North Texas

-----------------------------------------

To sign off ARF or modify your settings, follow the instructions at the bottom of the page at http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/arf-l.html

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)

#8478

From: Heike Uthmann <Heike@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:50 am
Subject: Re: Re: Progress with Mirko...

mirko210

Offline

Hi Lisa,

I wanted to let you know that I enjoyed watching you and Mirko very much!!

thanks!

the Artist is John Wright, a Scotsman, who sadly past away last year.

The name of the song is "some dreams".

I looked for it in youtube, but there seems to be just a version from another singer.

yours,

Heike

Am 18.11.2009 um 03:44 schrieb Lisa:

Hello!
I wanted to let you know that I enjoyed watching you and Mirko very much!! I also was hoping you could tell me the name of the song that played during the piaffe movement and the artist that sang it. It was beautiful and went so well with you and Mirko!
Thanks,
Lisa Rossman

--- In the_click_that_teaches@yahoogroups.com, Heike Uthmann <Heike@...> wrote:
>
> Hi at all,
> The clinic with Alexandra is 6 Weeks ago, and we made a real jump in
> our work...
>
> The snapping-issue has not completely vanished, but Mirko has become
> very stable in his mental state.
> When it appears we return to "Grown Ups", and this gave him enough
> hint to stay soft and wellminded.
> I have learned to ask for smaller and smaller steps in everything,
> and Mirko shows clearly that he likes that.
>
> After some work with the mat from the ground we had now an nice
> beginning of WWYLM, as it is seen here:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPV_dRSP63k
>
> and here
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwth3MXWNSs were we have also the
> beginning of Hip-Shoulder-Shoulder.
>
> Through the process of improving the leadrope-techniques has Mirko
> become very eager and reaktiv in his body.
>
> So yesterday suddenly the very first piaffe-movement popped out, when
> we were working on hindquarter-strength:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo1ha-sUgPw
>
> I never thought we would come that far, because Mirko ist the kind of
> horse who ever thinks about sparing his own energy.
> There is no way to force him into that movement (i tried in former
> times, but learned to give up in the request).
>
> he ist absolutely like this what Alexandra wrote in that mail
>
> Am 27.01.2009 um 17:31 schrieb Alexandra Kurland:
>
> > This was very much how I used to think about training. Pre-clicker
> > training I was learning how to teach horses to pick themselves up
> > and move well. I believed that once a horse was consistently
> > carrying himself with lightness, he would love the feel. Good
> > movement would become self-reinforcing. But the getting from here
> > to there was the hard part. When you are a couch potato, getting
> > up off the sofa is hard work. When you are a horse that habitually
> > travels on the forehand, adding enough energy to lift yourself up
> > is an enormous, unwanted chore.
>
> As I looked this little film in microsteps i found he presented this
> perfect movement, which was his first try in piaffe ever:
>
> http://www.familie-uthmann.de/Mirko/Mirkobilder09/piaffe.JPEG
>
> and I am very excited which way we are travelling now!
>
> This work is so fascinating....thanks again, Alexandra!
>
> much greetings from germany
>

#8477

From: Heike Uthmann <Heike@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:40 am
Subject: Re: Progress with Mirko...

mirko210

Offline

Am 17.11.2009 um 01:07 schrieb Dolores Arste:

Heike,

Lovely diagonal pairs on that backup. Well done. And what great forward you have. Many clicks for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo1ha-sUgPw

Dolores

thank you for your comment :-)

Heike

#8476

From: Heike Uthmann <Heike@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:39 am
Subject: Re: Progress with Mirko...

mirko210

Offline

Am 17.11.2009 um 00:16 schrieb Yvonne Lehey:

Hello Heike,

> and here
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwth3MXWNSs were we have also the
> beginning of Hip-Shoulder-Shoulder.

Yes, looking good. A few comments: seems to me that you could give the
release (take your hand off the rein) a bit earlier and then be a bit
more pronounced when asking for the backing. Sometimes it looks like
you skip the first backing?

Hello Yvonne,

thats right, sometimes I was looking for the movement of the hip in the quality of being soft and forward.

when I got this, I clicked it, so the backup movement was coming later.

Hope thats what you mean?

> So yesterday suddenly the very first piaffe-movement popped out, when
> we were working on hindquarter-strength:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo1ha-sUgPw

Lovely! Great job, both of you :-D

Cheers
Yvonne

thanks :-D

Heike

#8475

From: "Lisa" <frankrossman@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:44 am
Subject: Re: Progress with Mirko...

rossmanl

Offline

Hello!
I wanted to let you know that I enjoyed watching you and Mirko very much!!  I
also was hoping you could tell me the name of the song that played during the
piaffe movement and the artist that sang it.  It was beautiful and went so well
with you and Mirko!
Thanks,
Lisa Rossman

--- In the_click_that_teaches@yahoogroups.com, Heike Uthmann <Heike@...> wrote:
>
> Hi at all,
> The clinic with Alexandra is 6 Weeks ago, and we made a real jump in
> our work...
>
> The snapping-issue has not completely vanished, but Mirko has become
> very stable in his mental state.
> When it appears we return to "Grown Ups", and this gave him enough
> hint to stay soft and wellminded.
> I have learned to ask for smaller and smaller steps in everything,
> and Mirko shows clearly that he likes that.
>
> After some work with the mat from the ground we had now an nice
> beginning of WWYLM, as it is seen here:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPV_dRSP63k
>
> and here
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwth3MXWNSs were we have also the
> beginning of Hip-Shoulder-Shoulder.
>
> Through the process of improving the leadrope-techniques has Mirko
> become very eager and reaktiv in his body.
>
> So yesterday suddenly the very first piaffe-movement popped out, when
> we were working on hindquarter-strength:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo1ha-sUgPw
>
> I never thought we would come that far, because Mirko ist the kind of
> horse who ever thinks about sparing his own energy.
> There is no way to force him into that movement (i tried in former
> times, but learned to give up in the request).
>
> he ist absolutely like this what Alexandra wrote in that mail
>
> Am 27.01.2009 um 17:31 schrieb Alexandra Kurland:
>
> > This was very much how I used to think about training.  Pre-clicker
> > training I was learning how to teach horses to pick themselves up
> > and move well.  I believed that once a horse was consistently
> > carrying himself with lightness, he would love the feel.  Good
> > movement would become self-reinforcing.  But the getting from here
> > to there was the hard part.  When you are a couch potato, getting
> > up off the sofa is hard work.  When you are a horse that habitually
> > travels on the forehand, adding enough energy to lift yourself up
> > is an enormous, unwanted chore.
>
> As I looked this little film in microsteps i found he presented this
> perfect movement, which was his first try in piaffe ever:
>
> http://www.familie-uthmann.de/Mirko/Mirkobilder09/piaffe.JPEG
>
> and I am very excited which way we are travelling now!
>
> This work is so fascinating....thanks again, Alexandra!
>
> much greetings from germany
>

#8472

From: Nick Foot <lists@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: Dorset Clicker Gatherings

nickrwym

Offline

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 13:29:01 +0000, you wrote:

>The next few gatherings at Oakfield are:-
>
>21st/22nd November

A reminder, we are holding a clicker gathering in Dorset next weekend

All clicker enthusiasts are welcome with or without horses.

Nick

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#8471

From: frankrossman@...
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:38 pm
Subject: Re:OT: Experience on Hoof Boots

rossmanl

Offline

I love my Renegades-easy on, they stay on and easy off. However, I don't put them through a whole lot.
Lisa Rossman

#8470

From: Kim Cassidy <kim@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:51 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: OT: Experience on Hoof Boots

cuhailan

Offline

I'm traveling right now if you all can wait I'll give you my opinion on all of them :)

Regards,

Kim Cassidy

I love not man the less, but Nature more.

Lord Byron

On Nov 11, 2009, at 11:04 PM, Amanda <ccpearl@...> wrote:

I use Old Mac G2s and I can't fault them. They are held on securely and I even used them 24/7 last year, including for turnout in a muddy field. The horse came in with them still on and in place every day. I would happily use them for any type of riding. They have great soles on them to provide traction.

I am sure Kim can speak to this better, but as I understand it there are recommended boots makes for different hoof shapes.

Amanda

#8469

From: Jane Jackson <bookendsfarm@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:42 pm
Subject: Re: Horse created loops

bookendsfarm

Offline

On 11/12/09 2:58 PM, "Amanda" <ccpearl@...> wrote:

What a great story :-)� Isn't it amazing what they understand of what we think we have taught them :-)

Too true!
--
Jane
Bookends Farm
E. Ryegate, VT
www.bookendsfarm.com
www.bookendsfarm.blogspot.com/

#8468

From: Equiart2@...
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: OT: Experience on Hoof Boots

equiart8913

Offline

I use Easy Boots of various types depending on the foot shape and have been happy with them overall. For eventing at the Intermediate Level I use Swiss Horse Boots with studs for traction as needed. They have been very satisfactory. We have trouble around my area with any boots that have velcro in the late spring as the velcro collects grass awns.

I have also used the Old Macs, but on cross country, they tended to rotate on the hooves on the horse we used them on.

Marla Foreman

#8467

From: Amanda <ccpearl@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:58 pm
Subject: Re: Horse created loops

adsc3

Offline

What a great story :-) Isn't it amazing what they understand of what we think we have taught them :-)

Amanda

#8466

From: Amanda <ccpearl@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:04 am
Subject: Re: OT: Experience on Hoof Boots

adsc3

Offline

I use Old Mac G2s and I can't fault them. They are held on securely and I even used them 24/7 last year, including for turnout in a muddy field. The horse came in with them still on and in place every day. I would happily use them for any type of riding. They have great soles on them to provide traction.

I am sure Kim can speak to this better, but as I understand it there are recommended boots makes for different hoof shapes.

Amanda

#8464

From: "ahapeng" <aha.peng@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:50 pm
Subject: OT: Experience on Hoof Boots

ahapeng

Offline

Hi,

Can someone share with me the experience on the hoof boots? I've seen different
ideas on the Easyboots products ( http://www.easycareinc.com/) and Renegade (
http://www.renegadehoofboots.com/tevis-09.html). Seems like the Renegade is
race-proven, like we test the new product in car racing.

I wonder can those boots be used in jumping. I've been told that no boots are
durable enough for rigorous jumping and X-country.

Thanks.

HP

#8463

From: Amanda <ccpearl@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: Loopy training questions

adsc3

Offline

**I spent a lot of time this summer with two horses where our first few sessions were me clicking for “nothing” at various times. It seemed very anti-clicker at the time, but they were making themselves crazy by throwing stuff at me and not taking time to stop and think. Clicker training is about promoting thinking horses but I want a thoughtful thinking horse, not one that is always rushing to give the answer before I finish asking the question. This is really about cues and I was essentially reinforcing waiting for the cue.**

It's not anti-clicker at all....Kay Lawrence uses this as part of teaching stimulus control. You can teach a default behaviour, so that in the absence of a cue your horse will perform the default behaviour. And you can also click for doing nothing in the absence of the cue.....they are after all correct and the clicker means 'yes, good job'; no cue, result is no behaviour....click/treat as they were right to do nothing.

Amanda

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)

#8462

From: Cindy Martin <maddogranch@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:43 am
Subject: Re: Horse created loops

ca4martin

Offline

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Jane Jackson <bookendsfarm@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I liked Katie�s idea of stepping over a rail being an anchor behavior, so I
decided to try it with 3 yr old Ande. �He�s done rails before- in hand, longeing
and under saddle, and been reinforced for them but I wanted to confirm their
�value� so I began in hand. �As soon as the last foot was over, I clicked,
stopped, treated....and Ande began his own little loop while I stood and
giggled. �As soon as he received his treat, he very carefully BACKED over the
rail and came forward again, C/T, back over the rail, come forward again, CT
etc. �All I can figure is that when I turned to treat, he decided that was a
backup cue and we�ve done a fair bit with getting his hind feet on a mat,
backing carefully out of the trailer, etc. �I was finally able to get control of
my giggles and asked him to proceed FORWARD- he was not impressed with my idea
but complied.

What a great story, Jane! Ande is young and I guess we can't always
determine "what they will consider the reinforcing behavior."

"My foot was 'there' when the magical click happened, so how many ways
can I get THAT foot THERE, to make it happen again?"

Hurray for Ande. I agree, the "walk over a pole" is a great "anchor
behavior." So many good ideas, only so many brain cells for Cindy to
use to absorb them....

Cheers,
Cindy M

#8461

From: "Katie Bartlett" <katie.bartlett@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:28 am
Subject: RE: Horse created loops

kabart315

Offline

Hi Jane,

How clever of Ande. Especially considering I spent time last summer teaching my horses to step back over a pole and it turns out it is not that easy. How nice of you to indulge him for a bit.

Katie