Happy New Year Everyone!

It's snowing outside and the first question of the year is about
grass.  Somehow it seems like a good match for a perfect winter day.

Laurel asked for details on how to keep her horse from helping
herself to grass.  This is a great opportunity to explore the power
of -  you guessed it - bone rotations.  This lesson is so much fun.
No more hauling on a lead rope while your horse buries his head even
deeper into the grass.  A simple bone rotation pops them right up.

I think it was a highland pony who showed me the real power of this
technique.  She'd had a lot of practice dragging her owner to grass.
Trying to do anything with her when there was grass in sight had
become an exercise in monumental frustration.  Her radar would lock
onto the grass, and that was the end of any serious work.

Why fight that?  When I took her, I let her have the grass - for a
bite or two.  Then I positioned myself so I was directly over the
snap of her lead.  You can't be angled off to the side for this to
work - not on a determined, experienced puller like this pony.  She
had her nose firmly rooted to the ground.  I slid down the rope until
my arm was fully extended.  Then I rotated my whole arm initiating
the movement from my shoulder.

Up popped the pony's head.  I'm not sure which one of us was more
surprised - I that it had worked so easily, or the pony that she had
come up from the grass without a fight.  I threw in a quick click
before she could nosedive back down, gave her a treat, and then
anchored the lead in "grown-ups are talking" position.  She tried to
pull her head down, but locking the lead against my torso gave me a
leverage advantage.  She tugged a couple of times, then paused with
slack in the line.  That's what I was waiting for.  I released the
lead, stepped back slightly, said "okay", and gestured with a head
down signal that it was okay for her to return to the grass.

I let her take a couple of bites of grass, then once again positioned
myself directly over the snap and popped her head back up with a bone
rotation.  Click/treat.  Then back to "grown-ups" to wait for the
slack.  Once she stopped trying to go down and instead kept slack in
the lead, I again gave her the opportunity to graze.

With each repetition she came up even more easily.  She was so soft.
There was no resistance at all.  As soon as I started to slide down,
her head popped up.  And she stopped trying to nosedive back down.
Instead, she'd get her treat and then go straight into "grown-ups".
I could now lengthen out the waiting to a real pause before I
released her back down to the grass.

So now I made the game more interesting.  We were working on a "why
would you leave me?" circle of cones.  I'd pop her head up.  Click -
treat - "grown-ups".  Then we'd walk to the next cone.  Stop. Click -
treat  - grown-ups - permission to graze.   This extension of the
game broke the tractor-beam lock that the grass had on her nose.  I
could walk her over the grass from one cone to the next.  She wasn't
trying to drag her head down to eat.  Instead she was walking on a
slack lead from cone to cone, stopping with me, and waiting until I
gave her the release cues that it was okay to graze.  When I wanted
to move on, she came up readily off the grass and walked with me
without a fuss.

If you want visuals on the bone rotations I used, refer to the "T'ai
Chi Rope Handling" and the "Why Would You Leave Me?" DVDs.  And for
the "Grown-ups are Talking" neutral body position  refer to the
"Lesson #1: Getting Started with the Clicker" DVD - the last section
on the Six Foundation Lessons.

More pony food manners: I'm getting ready for the Clicker Expo at the
beginning of February.  I'll be presenting a new program on Micro-
Shaping.  This past week I've been editing video.  I've got some
great material not just for the presentation but also for a new DVD,
so that's my current project.  At the moment the computer is busy
processing clips which is why I am free to write this post.

One of the video clips shows yet another highland pony.  She was so
deeply involved in the micro-shaping game that she was ignoring
spilled grain at her feet.  Picture this: she's standing with her
attention riveted on her handler, trying to figure out which muscle
to engage to earn a click and a treat while clearly visible at her
feet is enough grain to make a flock of pigeons happy.  She was
perfectly aware that the grain was there.  She'd started the session
by vacuuming up after the previous horse, but now that the game was
on, she was much more interested in solving the puzzle than eating
freebies.

Another pony - this seems to be a day for ponies - ignored a pile of
hay in the corner of her pen to play the micro-shaping game.  We were
asking her to back.  She consistently backed away from the hay, that
is until we made the puzzle a tad bit too hard by putting some cones
behind her.  She wasn't sure what to do about the cones.  She needed
to think that one through so she opted out of the game and started
eating her hay.  She was clearly one of those individuals who finds
comfort in eating.  When you feel a little worried or frustrated -
raid the snack bar. This lasted just a brief moment, long enough for
her to come up with a solution to her dilemma, then she was right
back in the game.

What these ponies are telling us is that if we can make the game
interesting enough and at the same time keep the rates of
reinforcement high enough, even they will give up their fixation on
food to engage with us.   I could tell more pony stories, but the
computer has just finished processing the video clips so I'll leave
it there for now.

Happy New Year Everyone!  Let's make this a year of great
discoveries, great fun, and a year in which we all find enormous
pleasure in our horses.

Alexandra Kurland
theclickercenter.com

Laurel,
Here is how I did it with Dixie (after a lot of struggle). I began with
the usual clicking and treating, using treats. Then, when we were near
grass and she had correctly met a criterion, I would click and say
"Grass" instead of offering the treat. I would relax the lead rope and
she would dive into the grass. After about 30 seconds, I would pull on
the lead and have her move forward with her head up. We would do some
little action, I would click and say "Grass". At first, I did this with
very short intervals between grass eating. Then, as Dixie began to trust
I would let her have grass frequently, she did not need the interval to
be as short. When we worked on bare ground, she would want the regular
treat. If we were near grass, I would click and say "Grass". She now
readily moves away from the grass after a 'grass-eating warm up". In the
winter season, she often prefers the treat, because the grass in the
areas were we work is not palatable to her.

I hope this helps. Using the grass has saved me - and Dixie - a  lot of
frustration. The key, I think, is having your horse believe you will
allow grass access, just not all the time.

Kathleen
Dixies mom

Laurel Gordon wrote:
>
> Hi Dolores!
> > Use the grass as a high value reinforcement. Reinforce a lot and put
> > the going to grass on cue. Give the cue often.
> Ahem, could we have some more juicy detail PLEASE, like what do _you_
> use as a cue, and how do you distinguish between reinforcement and horse
> 'helping himself' to the goodies. Could you give us a "step-by-step"
> sort of answer if you have time? :-) . Also how did you go about
> transferring the cue from ground to saddle. I had the (painful)
> experience of Jedda melting down when I asked her to leave the grass
> early on during her first period under saddle last year, and getting
> bucked off, so this is a question dear to my heart (and bones). It was
> one of several episodes which made me aware there were still far too
> many holes needing filling to start riding her just then.
>
> Thanks!
> Happy New Year to all,
>
> Cheers,
> Laurel, Jedda, Belle and Pedrito,
> Tasmania.
>
>

Hi Dolores!
> Use the grass as a high value reinforcement. Reinforce a lot and put
> the going to grass on cue. Give the cue often.
Ahem, could we have some more juicy detail PLEASE, like what do _you_
use as a cue, and how do you distinguish between reinforcement and horse
'helping himself' to the goodies. Could you give us a "step-by-step"
sort of answer if you have time?  :-) . Also how did you go about
transferring the cue from ground to saddle. I had the (painful)
experience of Jedda melting down when I asked her to leave the grass
early on during her first period under saddle last year, and getting
bucked off, so this is a question dear to my heart (and bones). It was
one of several episodes which made me aware there were still far too
many holes needing filling to start riding her just then.

Thanks!
Happy New Year to all,

Cheers,
Laurel, Jedda, Belle and Pedrito,
Tasmania.

Hi Marjorie,
> My sympathies; I have one of those grass-loving horses as well, so
I know it's not easy.

  >Should I give him his dinner before a ride instead of after?<
Hi There,
In my experience with Unique a forever hungry fellow too noticed that
feeding him first is a must. I do spend a lot of time at the barn and
have loads of time when I do go.Our routine is I bring him in and
give him his cube grain supplement mix, and let him eat while I take
his blanket of and as I tack up bandage etc..He is much much happier
with this than feeding after. I got rid of  a lot of his NON
clickable moments this way.;)
He is way more attentive and happy to work. He gets feed very well at
the barn but just loves to eat. One reasons the clicker training
works so well with him. He knows he will get C/T when we work and
feed just takes the greedy out of him. I can work him without feeding
first but I find he works much better the other way. It slows him
down.
mAe

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:20:48 +0100, you wrote:

>
>Alexandra, Nick and Cherrie all gave me a wonderful gift last summer,
>arranging a very enjoyable clicker course. That gift has lasted until
>Christmas and longer; I'm sure it'll keep giving me and my horse joy for a
>long time yet.

Hello Lottie, I'm glad you are enjoying it. Alexandra is back in
England again next summer around the end of May if you want to join us
all again.  I will post details on the list here shortly.

Nick

Merry Christmas from Sweden as well! A little late perhaps, but I hope
you're all having a lovely holiday with your horses and other loved ones.

Alexandra, Nick and Cherrie all gave me a wonderful gift last summer,
arranging a very enjoyable clicker course. That gift has lasted until
Christmas and longer; I'm sure it'll keep giving me and my horse joy for a
long time yet.

All the best for the New Year, to everyone on the list.

Lottie

Hi Marjorie,
My sympathies; I have one of those grass-loving horses as well, so I know
it's not easy.

>Should I give him his dinner before a ride instead of after?<

That's a good idea, I think. See to it that he's not hungry when you start,
that should help at least some. Perhaps you should also concentrate on
training "head up" for a while, using high value treats and a rapid rate of
reinforcement.

Have you tried using grass as the treat? Or maybe just as a jackpot at the
end of each session? I realise you may not be able to let him graze much,
considering his insulin resistance, but if he learns that he *will* get to
eat some he might settle down a bit.

Don't know if you're on the ClickRyder list; this problem was discussed
there only recently, with several good suggestions. I especially remember a
very helpful post by Arlene Colon where she told us how she'd worked with
her Haflinger, Charm. The headline is "grass distraction" and it's from Wed
Dec 19, 2007.

Lottie, in Sweden

Hi lovely friends,

I need some help!

Today I did a short Christmas ride on John who has been out-of-sorts for
several weeks, he seemed more interested today. I took him "outside" in
the yard, where there is actual grass (at the end of December!). This is
a grass-starved horse -- he is somewhat insulin resistant and we live in
a high-sugar area so he is mostly dry-lotted. I could hardly get his
attention and was using my full bone-rotation-plus-weight on the rope
halter to get his head up for "occasional" groundwork, finally just got
on because I can brace the reins on his withers stronger than when I'm
on the ground. John is normally a "light" and attentive horse.

We had a mainly grouchy ride, both of us thinking the other was
interested in the wrong thing -- me on riding not grass, and John on
grass not riding. I really hope I never have to be like that with him
again. Unfortunately that seems to mean we only ride in the arena, where
the grass is much less flavorful.

Should I go back to the bit (even in the winter cold), which keeps his
nose off the ground more easily, even if it doesn't really get his mind
away from the grass? Am I right to just permanently cross off going
outside as an option with him? -- I had hoped we could do some
straight-ahead riding across the fields, as too frequent arena work can
aggravate his old shoulder injury. I am frustrated, how to give him any
exercise!!!  He is very sour on lungeing. Are there grass muzzles for
riding? Should I give him his dinner before a ride instead of after? (Do
I sound upset, yes!)

I think I've asked for help with this before and whatever y'all said,
from a training point of view, I don't seem to be able to use it
effectively. I don't like to carry a whip and tap him with it because it
makes him uptight and spooky. Please try again!

Anyhow I'm having lovely little bareback rides with my Haflinger, Festi.
We are still learning our balance together. She's figured out she can
carry me over ground poles, and we've started a little steering among
some barrels. She's getting more confident about going forward, and
about going more steps before needing reassurance. She does get awfully
excited to have me get on her back, the first few treats are fairly
mugged with "her mouth wide open and her teeth hanging out" (like the
eat-your-dinner stories my dad used to tell) but then she calms down and
takes them more relaxedly. She seems very proud / pleased to be carrying
me. We practice a little steering every time -- not wanting to do much
to discourage "forward" till she is more sure that forward is good.

Many thanks, Marjorie Smith, Shoemakersville, Pennsylvania, USA

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:05:02 -0500, you wrote:

>
>Merry Christmas Everyone

Merry Christmas from England.

The postman brought us a present of a DVD from the USA featuring one
of our horse, many thanks for that, we spent a fair part of yesterday
watching it, it was an excellent rerun, like having a private lesson.
I hope everyone else gets a lot out of your new DVD, I know we did.

We got out for a ride this afternoon as the rain stopped and had a
nice break from being indoors. Tomorrow is meant to be sunny so we
will go for a longer ride.

I hope you all find time to be with your horses in this holiday
period, they are a great reason to get outdoors and enjoy yourselves.

Nick and Cherrie

Merry Christmas Everyone

Christmas gifts.  My favorite Christmas gifts don't come wrapped up
in shiny paper anymore.  They come from my horses, from the gifts
they give me not just on Christmas day, but every day.  I was going
to add - every day I am with them, because there are so many days
during they year when I am traveling and do not get to spend time
with them.  But really they give me gifts every day.

Last night when I got to the barn, I turned the Iceys out in the
indoor arena.  They don't get much play time together in the winter.
We had snow last week which meant they could go out together in the
paddock, but over the weekend we had heavy rains that washed away
much of the snow  leaving ice in its wake.  The paddock is closed
again to protect it for summer grazing.  And the Iceys are back to
their limited play time.  I had no sooner gotten them both in the
arena when someone else came over with a horse.  So the Iceys had to
come out.  Grumble, grumble.  It is hard having to share!

By the time that horse had left, Magnat was letting me know it was
his turn for attention, so he went out in the arena and the Iceys
went back outside to their pens.  But Sindri was so clearly wanting
to play.  He wanted to ride.  I promised him we would, but first I
had stalls to clean, mashes to make, water buckets to fill.  He had
to wait.

I finished the evening chores, brought Magnat in, gave Robin his
turn, played with him.  He's so much fun.  Christmas eve is one of my
favorite times at the barn.  It's so quiet.  By this time of the
night all the other boarders have gone home.  There is no one else
around, no other horses to interrupt our fun.  Robin and I could play
at liberty without thinking about the clock or making room for other
horses.

By the time we were done, it was almost eight-thirty, time to put
horses away and finish the barn chores, but I hadn't yet done
anything with Peregrine, and I had promised Sindri I would work with
him.  You can't break your promises to your horses, especially not on
Christmas Eve.  So I brought Sindri in, saddled him up, and took him
into the arena.

Christmas gifts.

It was just a ride.  I didn't do anything special.  We worked a bit
on shoulder-in to haunches-in transitions and then picked up a tolt -
made all the softer by the lateral work.  The gift was that feeling
Sindri always gives me of wanting to be with me more than anything
else.  He will leave other horses, he will leave grass, to come be
with me.  What better gift could he give me than that?

Peregrine had his turn as well.  His is the place of privilege. I
always save his sessions for the end of the evening.  The chores are
all done except for the final passing out of the evening hay and the
mashes.  My attention is all on him.  As we rode, I thanked him for
that best of all Christmas gifts -  that he is still here with me.

Merry Christmas Everyone and the Best of All New Years

Alexandra Kurland
theclickercenter.com

I don't know how many times I'll write this list to say how amazingly
deep this work is, but this isn't the first and no doubt will not be the
last.

Holidayitis set in at work today, so I decided to go over some back
newsletters looking for help with 3 flip 3. I'm mentally unable so far
to process 3 flip 3, even though I've watched the video. I can't get the
idea of the hip being that subtle. Now, at Groton, I watched this over
and over and had no problem observing or understanding it, but for some
reason it again escapes me from an hands on perspective. Mister and I
are continuously working on the duct tape lessons, mat lessons, and
other stuff all the time. We do WWYLM a lot too, because I want to begin
with lateral movement for balance and using his hind end better in
forward movement. Under saddle, I can pretty much figure out whether
he's leaning in or out, and in WWYLM, if I set up right, I think we're
pretty balanced, but I'm just not sure of it.

Anyway, that's the background, but I've digressed. After reading June
2006, it occurs to me that I have lost track of
head-down-is-not-a-forward-moving-exercise. How do I know that? Because
he pecks like a chicken ;-) Ha ha!!  I've inadvertently reinforced the
bobbing in an effort to reward duration of down, but Alex was actually
careful to mention in that post that bobbing won't cut it. I'd never
thought about it, and consequently never rewarded down and still. So,
here we go today, back to kindergarten for Mom.

It's harder than I thought to be accurate with this. Split second and
quite careful observation. I am beginning to think I have been too easy
on myself and that my horse is very generous! We will be adding this one
back into the repertoire in high level of rotation.
Merry Christmas everybody!
Susan

My hubby is a very sweet man, and has always been very intimidated by
my horse, who quickly takes advantage of inexperienced people. My
hubby has wants to interact with Odhinn, but has almost always had a
negative experience, feels deflated, and now has a negative view of
him (Your horse is a JERK!!!)

He has not been around Odhinn since I started CT with him, and came to
the barn for the first time in a while yesterday. I started showing
him some of Odhinn's new 'tricks' (heads down on cue, targeting and
fetching ) and he watched for a few min. and then got really
interested in it :-), and quickly asked to try. My hubby has excellent
timing, and was observing very carefully when I was doing it, so when
he stepped in, he was doing great!! It was so wonderful to watch
Odhinn respond to other people's cues and to see him interact with my
husband in such a positive way.

In fact, I showed my husband the lastest thing I have been working on
(table manners, going into pose instead of taking treat), and my hubby
asked if he could work on that while I was getting all of my tack
ready to groom....He did a great job, and was *so* proud that by the
time I had finished, Odhinn wasn't going for the outstretched carrot
at all, and was instead, standing like a total gentleman.

So, this is such a neat thing.... and clearly so reinforcing to the
PERSON as well as the horse. The neatest thing was I overheard my
husband talking to a barn-mate when I wasn't there how much
improvement he saw in Odhinn. I couldn't get a more honest opinion!

Hey Lore,

Did you ever check out a Tractor Supply near you for the Hay Stretcher
pellets?


Connie
www.eternalsunstable.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Lore Haug

To: the_click_that_teaches@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 10:16 AM

Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [the_click_that_teaches] Re: hay stretcher pellets

I have used alfalfa cubes before but often it was too hard to break
them into small enough pieces.

I would love to see your treat recipe!

Lore
__________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

I have used alfalfa cubes before but often it was too hard to break
them into small enough pieces.

I would love to see your treat recipe!


Lore
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

Would there be a problem using alfalfa pellets?  I >>

not specifically but given how little work he's doing right now being
that he lives over an hour from me and I only see him once a week, I'm
not sure I want to give him that much protein. Although I guess if its
only once a week, it probably won't matter too much. ;-)

Lore
__________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

I don't know if any of you read Practical Horseman, but there was an
"Ask the Experts" question this past month about kicking.  I was sorely
disappointed in the answer which was to teach the horse to NEVER show
herd behavior under saddle or in hand (not even body language as small
as an ear flick!!!) by, well, essentially beating the horse  -- kicking
it, hitting it with a crop, etc.

I'm hoping I can get the time to write a letter.  Perhaps some others
of you would be able to also.


Lore
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

Would there be a problem using alfalfa pellets?  I >>

not specifically but given how little work he's doing right now being
that he lives over an hour from me and I only see him once a week, I'm
not sure I want to give him that much protein. Although I guess if its
only once a week, it probably won't matter too much.  ;-)


Lore
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

Hi all,
           Wonderful clinic review Tanya, thanks for that. I attended a
seminar this week on "Dementia and Relationships" and found myself
smiling again at how everything is everything else. If you'll all
forgive the indulgence, these are some of the pointers which sounded oh
so familiar :-) .

Communication difficulties are caused by:
a. inability to understand what is expected of them
b. inability to make themselves understood.

Task: too complicated, too many steps, unfamiliar, not modified for the
individual.

Effective communication skills:

*think about how you are presenting
*try a calm gentle approach
*use a non-demanding approach
*try using touch to help convey the message
*begin your conversation socially
*begin conversation with orientating information if you need to
*avoid environments full of distractions
*ask simple yes/no questions
*give choices where possible
*be patient and calm
*allow plenty of time for information to be absorbed
*praise sincerely for success
*repeat instructions exactly the same way each time
*listen actively and carefully
*try a hug and a change of subject

Works for everyone!

Happy Christmas all,
Laurel, Jedda, Belle and Pedro :-) .

Hello all,
  Merry Christmas to all on the list. May you have a joyous new year,
and achieve the impossible with your horses. Give everyone of your
horses a good scratch for me
All the best,
Mae ,Unique ,Misty girl.

In the Pennsylvania area we can get pellets called Alam, from McCauley's
in Chambersburg, phone 800-241-6333, that are made for horses with
insulin resistance problems. The larger size called "cubes" are about
the thickness of your finger and make very nice treats, and the horses
seem to like them a lot. There is also a "grain" size but it slips
between your fingers. McCauley's sells through several feed stores in
eastern PA and maybe nearby states, and will also ship them.

For horses that are not insulin resistant, Blue Seal makes a hay
stretcher pellet that is available in several Northeastern states.

Marjorie Smith, Shoemakersville Pennsylvania USA

calf extender pellets that work well and>>

is this safe?  I know there are a number ot types of cattle feed that
are not safe for horses.




Lore
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

Thank you Alexandra for all of the time and effort you put into these
powerful lessons for us to get to learn from over and over. I am so excited.
I will be ordering mine :)

Kathleen
In Atlanta