Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
the_click_that_teaches · The Click That Teaches
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Message search is now enhanced, find messages faster. Take it for a spin.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
question about shoulders   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #3289 of 8630 |
More shoulders


Hello everyone,

Speaking of shoulders, I am once again working on getting shoulder gives from the ground with rein pressure.  This has been a very difficult behavior for ME emotionally.   I'm using hip- shoulder- shoulder,( ala Lyons) and Vegas gets excited and grunts and struggles with it.   Anytime I start a "connect the rein" behavior I have this problem with watching him struggle to figure out what it is I want.   It's very difficult for me to not just release the rein and say "That's ok, honey. We don't really need to work on that anyway"   Actuallly, I HAVE done that, which is why it's taken me so long to train the shoulders.     I started this again last night and only did 10 reps on the left.    Out of 10 reps, there were probably 7 good, recognizable, clickable steps over (or stumbles- they weren't pretty)   of the shoulder.  The other 3, I released the rein for thoughts of shoulder gives, but did not click.  I did two reps on the right and he struggled SO with the shoulder rein cue.  He ended up actually jumping over with his ENTIRE body with (what I interpreted as much drama)  I stopped working on it on that side thinking maybe he just isn't soft enough on the right.  That always has been our stiffer side.

Here are my questions.   When just beginning shoulders gives, do I have to do the whole hip shoulder shoulder exercise?   Or, can I simply ask for a shoulder give from a stand still or simply walking.   I'm not sure how giving the hip first helps with this since he comes to a complete stop before I ask for the shoulder anyway.  I think that would reduce the drama for us.    Maybe, during this beginning stage, it would be ok for me to give him a hint by touching his shoulder with my hand.   He moves his shoulders well to a cue from my hand.

After this work, I rode for a while.   He was extremely "movey"  I had a difficult time getting him to stand still for mounting (that's never a problem) and he walked with great energy.   I like that energy, just wondering why that would be a by-product of HSS.  Or is it a by product of clicker training a new behavior?    Or maybe he's trying to get away from the mean lady? :-(



Teresa & Vegas






The information contained in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s) and may be confidential, proprietary, and/or legally privileged.  Inadvertent disclosure of this message does not constitute a waiver of any privilege.  If you receive this message in error, please do not directly or indirectly use, print, copy, forward, or disclose any part of this message.  Please also delete this e-mail and all copies and notify the sender.  Thank you.

For alternate languages please go to http://bayerdisclaimer.bayerweb.com



Fri Jun 1, 2007 12:09 pm

clickchick7307
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #3289 of 8630 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Hi Everyone, I have a new horse as of several weeks ago, a 13+ hand Haflinger former brood mare, age 13, she is pretty green which is fun because I can ...
Marjorie Smith
hullscove
Offline Send Email
May 30, 2007
1:52 am

... her ... Hi Marjorie, While I am a newbie to clicker training, my horse is half Halflinger, he used to barge me with his shoulder all the time, and we did...
Amy
hen4rent
Offline Send Email
May 30, 2007
3:02 am

Hi Marjorie, Just a quick note here to say congratulations on your new girl! ... brood mare, age 13, she is pretty green which is fun because I can basically...
Arlene Colon
arlcolon3
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
5:25 am

Hello everyone, Speaking of shoulders, I am once again working on getting shoulder gives from the ground with rein pressure. This has been a very difficult ...
Teresa Hughes
clickchick7307
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
12:11 pm

The reason to get the hip is so that he becomes "engaged" behind. The best way that I can put this is that the hind end begins to articulate in its movement. ...
Dolores Arste
darste_1999
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
1:17 pm

Hi Dolores, Good to hear from you. I had no idea there would be a residual factor (hindend begins to articulate in it's movement) to this that would last for...
Teresa Hughes
clickchick7307
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
1:54 pm

Theresa wrote: " Is this something that eventually lasts longer and longer until it eventually becomes somewhat permanent?" Yes, becuase it feels good to the...
Dolores Arste
darste_1999
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
2:11 pm

Maybe you need a different exercise.  You did not say exactly what you are trying to get his shoulder to do.  HSS (to my understanding) is more of a backing...
lihaug@...
yazdoodle
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
8:17 pm

Hi Teresa, Here is a copy of the email that I sent to Marjorie when she posted the question about moving the shoulders. She sent her question both to me, and ...
Katie Bartlett
kabart315
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
2:23 pm

Thanks Katie, So maybe I'll precede a HSS session with a "shoulders only" session. I'm thinking: a couple of shoulders over with light hand pressure (no gttb) ...
Teresa Hughes
clickchick7307
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
2:57 pm

Hi Teresa, You may have to disregard my last message... You posted about moving the shoulders on the thread Marjorie started about moving the shoulders...
Katie Bartlett
kabart315
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
3:06 pm

Sorry, I don't remember what 3 flip 3 is or how that compares to HSS. It seems to me they are very similar. We have shoulder gives to hand pressure but not...
Teresa Hughes
clickchick7307
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
3:38 pm

Hi Teresa, Ok, let's back up a little. 3 flip 3 - 3 gives of the jaw, give of the hip, 3 more gives of the jaw. 3 flip 3 teaches the horse to give his hip...
Katie Bartlett
kabart315
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
4:08 pm

Ok, I know what you're talking about with the 3 flip 3. I do gives, then hip, followed by more gives (may or may not be 3) and didn't even know that had a...
Teresa Hughes
clickchick7307
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
5:18 pm

Hi Teresa, Please keep in mind that I learned my John Lyons from Alex and reading the ground control manual. I know that Alex has changed his exercises...
Katie Bartlett
kabart315
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
6:02 pm

I'm so glad we had this discussion. I will do some re-reading and re-watching. I don't remember if the book ever says which direction the shoulders are...
Teresa Hughes
clickchick7307
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
7:00 pm

Not surprising. It's the hip that gives you control of the engine. HSS is a John Lyons exercise that Alex adopted. 3FLIP3 is not a JL. I believe this is one of...
Dolores Arste
darste_1999
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
7:55 pm

Hi Teresa, I'm glad you're glad we had this discussion <smile>. My kids and I have a running joke with stuff like this and they would reply "I'm glad you're...
Katie Bartlett
kabart315
Offline Send Email
Jun 2, 2007
2:54 pm

"When I ride out, I walk on the buckle a lot and use the single rein riding, but if I go to a faster gait, I usually go to two reins." Why is that Katie? On...
Dolores Arste
darste_1999
Offline Send Email
Jun 2, 2007
3:13 pm

Hi Dolores, Why don't I trail ride at faster gaits on a single rein? I guess the short answer is that I would have to put in some training time into it to be...
Katie Bartlett
kabart315
Offline Send Email
Jun 3, 2007
1:05 am

"To be totally honest, I have not tried trotting on a single rein on the trail with Rosie and it has been years since I tried it with Willy, so can I? I...
Dolores Arste
darste_1999
Offline Send Email
Jun 3, 2007
10:11 am

Hi Dolores, Yes, I understand what you are saying and perhaps I will explore it this summer when I do more trail riding. Thanks for the food for thought. Katie...
Katie Bartlett
kabart315
Offline Send Email
Jun 4, 2007
3:55 am

... Well Katie and Teresa, I'm also glad that you had this discussion! It has become apparent to me recently that I need to work on asking Passh to move his...
susanfitzp2002
Offline Send Email
Jun 2, 2007
6:54 pm

Hi All, I've been trying to follow this thread, but I can't understand the HSS reference. What is HSS? TTFN, Amy...
Amy
hen4rent
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
7:16 pm

Hi Everyone, When I first started this thread last week, I thought my immediate problem was lateral movement of the shoulders. But, I actually wanted a "slow ...
Teresa Hughes
clickchick7307
Offline Send Email
Jun 7, 2007
12:35 pm

Hi Teresa, I am glad to hear that you have found a good strategy for working on stopping and slowing with Vegas. I find that happens with me a lot. I just ...
Katie Bartlett
kabart315
Offline Send Email
Jun 7, 2007
4:45 pm

Thanks Katie. I'll let you know how it goes. Teresa & Vegas _______________________________________________________________________________________________ ...
Teresa Hughes
clickchick7307
Offline Send Email
Jun 7, 2007
5:47 pm

In a message dated 6/1/2007 10:19:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, teresa.hughes.b@... writes: Is this straight back or sideways and back? I need to go back...
lihaug@...
yazdoodle
Offline Send Email
Jun 1, 2007
11:15 pm

Thanks Arlene! and several others who sent suggestions. Good to have the heads-up that Haflingers will stuff it for a while and then spook big. She has spooked...
Marjorie Smith
hullscove
Offline Send Email
Jun 5, 2007
3:50 am
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help