> when it comes to Toccers I feel that they definitely hurt ones
> ability to play the game as a whole.

It depends on that person's abilities I guess. We all have different
strengths. Having played with samples of both Ultima bases, although
I love the touch and ease of shooting of a Raptor I would never use
them in a game as I miss the curl. Another player would never use a
more traditionally shaped base like the Veloche, Advantage, Biemme,
etc.

mike
@mistfa.org

Nick 3-0 Matt
Nick 3-0 Matt
Nick 2-1 Matt
Nick 2-2 Matt

All games played seriously unlike our usual flick every man
forward.  Very quality play both ways, with Nick capitalizing on his
opportunities better than Matt.

	 GP W L D PTS GF GA
Nick 4 3 0 1 10 10 3
Matt 4 0 3 1 1 3 10

I am
> also quite certain that Nastasi would have won the World Cup last
> year if he had used Toccers because in the end the figure really
> doesn't make a difference. It's the skill and your familiarity
with
> the figures that makes the difference.
>
> I am looking forward to trying them. It should be fun.

Just thought I'd chime in and add that in all of my time in Europe
at all of those top tourneys that I got to play in, I didn't see a
single player playing with Toccers.  Not until I got back to the US
to see Bill Edmonson playing with them had I ever seen anyone
actually use them in a tournament.  And as for Nastasi, I'm pretty
sure he'd never use Toccers as he has some of the best bases in the
world.  They are so nice and so perfect that when I tried to ask him
what they were, he said "my bases".  Haha.  His bases actually are
his own special design and believe it or not, lots of top players
over there have their own special molded bases and what not.  I
agree with Bruno in that its not the base that makes the player, but
when it comes to Toccers I feel that they definitely hurt ones
ability to play the game as a whole.  Just my two cents...


Zach

--- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com
wrote:
>
> We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
>
> FISTF IO of Minneapolis, MN
>
> Date: Saturday, August 14, 2004
> Time: All Day

This is a mis-print, the tourney actually has been cancelled.  I'll
take it off the calendar right now.  Sorry

Zach

I just bought a set of Toccers. I decided to give them a go because I
have a feeling most of the Toccer stories are myth. Besides, we are
all capable of using any figure if we practice with them for some
time.

There is no doubt they are strong in defense. The fact that you can
block directly behing the ball, once it crosses your shooting line,
is a big defensive advatange. This factor virtually eliminates the
deflected goal, and forces the attacker to shoot quickly, or find
another option. Of course, you still have to make the blocks for the
Toccers to be effective.

I played around with the figures a bit in Toronto. The long touch up
is totally within it's parameters, as is the short one. However, as
Eric stated, consistency is a factor. You need to be fully
concentrated, and in control of your touch. For shooting you have to
take something off the flick. Otherwise, the ball will be going into
the net at the next table. I did not try the two figure back and
forth, but I think it will not be a problem.

Willy Hofmann invented Toccers. If he wasn't the best player of all
time, he was certainly in the top 3, so there must be something to
these things that nobody is seeing. I was told a story that Hofmann
use to fire five of these things, one after the other, and
continuously hit a moving ball without having it roll to far.
Therefore, the over-all control can't be as bad as we all think. I am
also quite certain that Nastasi would have won the World Cup last
year if he had used Toccers because in the end the figure really
doesn't make a difference. It's the skill and your familiarity with
the figures that makes the difference.

I am looking forward to trying them. It should be fun.

yep wayne is right...the holes don't have to be any bigger for them
to get through, it just seems that way.  The outermost diameter of a
hasbro solid and a toccer are almost identical.



--- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, "werderwayne" <ismith@s...>
wrote:
> --- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, Eric Walton <bigwalton@e...>
> wrote:
> > No touch.
> >
> > It's very very hard to be consistent on short flicks with
Toccers.
> >
> > While they're good for blocking because they're big, they also
> >need big
> > holes to get though.
> > ++ SNIP ++
>
> As incredible as it sounds, they are only 21mm in diameter.  They
> look much bigger, but they are legal.  When I first saw them I
> compared them to my Hasbros and the bases had the same diameter.
>
> -WW

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Jerry Garcia Memorial

Date: Saturday, August 7, 2004
Time: All Day

BUSL is proud to host the marquee event in the Northwest, the
Jerry Garcia Memorial.  The Jerry is an ASA minor event and will
take place in the Boise, Idaho area.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

FISTF IO of Minneapolis, MN

Date: Saturday, August 14, 2004
Time: All Day

--- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, Eric Walton <bigwalton@e...>
wrote:
> No touch.
>
> It's very very hard to be consistent on short flicks with Toccers.
>
> While they're good for blocking because they're big, they also
>need big
> holes to get though.
> ++ SNIP ++

As incredible as it sounds, they are only 21mm in diameter.  They
look much bigger, but they are legal.  When I first saw them I
compared them to my Hasbros and the bases had the same diameter.

-WW

No touch.

It's very very hard to be consistent on short flicks with Toccers.

While they're good for blocking because they're big, they also need big
holes to get though.

When I play against Toccers, I'll give away low all day long as keeper.
They're so easy to chip with... and they're impossible to keep down.

They're just way too heavy overall...

On Friday, July 30, 2004, at 06:23 PM, jodyschaaf wrote:

> Mark got a couple of sets of Toccer figures in two weeks ago from
> Dave at WTS and now just about everyone in our club loves them and
> wants a set.
>
> I'm sticking with my bases but I can see that, although quite heavy,
> they slide well, shoot and chip extremely well, are great for
> blocking, NEVER fall over, and are CHEAP.
>
> Those are some pretty good qualities. The only downside I see in my
> limited use of them is they are hard to flick long distances because
> of their weight (and of course no curling).
>
> I'm wondering why more players don't use them.
>
> Jody Schaaf
> Savannah, GA.
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: tablesoccer@onelist.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with Wayne on all points. Fine play is almost impossible.
Also the fat base means shots from odd angles are rare, there's
little or no sideways chip under the ball like you would get with a
Profi, Astro or the Raptors to name 3 examples. I found it
(relatively) easy to play against a Toccer team. It's similar to
playing a Sports Figure team. Going from a game against these Hulks
to playing a low based team with good touch up, long gliding and
possibly curl ability is like from night to day.

mike
@mistfa.org

--- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, "jodyschaaf" <Jschaaf5@c...>
wrote:
> Mark got a couple of sets of Toccer figures in two weeks ago from
> Dave at WTS and now just about everyone in our club loves them and
> wants a set.
>
> I'm sticking with my bases but I can see that, although quite
>heavy,
> they slide well, shoot and chip extremely well, are great for
> blocking, NEVER fall over, and are CHEAP.
>
> Those are some pretty good qualities. The only downside I see in
>my
> limited use of them is they are hard to flick long distances
>because
> of their weight (and of course no curling).
>
> I'm wondering why more players don't use them.
>
> Jody Schaaf
> Savannah, GA.

Hi Jody,

They are very heavy, which makes touching up on the ball very
difficult and, like you said, they won't curl.

The reason I don't have any is, in a nutshell, THEY ARE SO STINKING
ULGY!

Defenisvely, they are really good because they are so dang heavy.

I also think that there is a stigma attached to them because they
are big and clumsy.  It's like they were designed for beginners and
no experienced player would use them.

-WW

Mark got a couple of sets of Toccer figures in two weeks ago from
Dave at WTS and now just about everyone in our club loves them and
wants a set.

I'm sticking with my bases but I can see that, although quite heavy,
they slide well, shoot and chip extremely well, are great for
blocking, NEVER fall over, and are CHEAP.

Those are some pretty good qualities. The only downside I see in my
limited use of them is they are hard to flick long distances because
of their weight (and of course no curling).

I'm wondering why more players don't use them.

Jody Schaaf
Savannah, GA.

These next 2 weeks while I'm home in Charlottesville, Matt and I
will be playing many many matches every day and compile a running
total of stats.  All games will be played in a serious fashion and
not our usual flick every man forward affairs.  We'll see how it
goes.  Hopefully we can improve each other a lot, that's our goal.

Completion of round 2:

Nick Giffen 3-0 Michael Sakell (cruising to a win...sakell with over
10 saves)

Matt Giffen 2-1 Michael Sakell (Matt scores first then scores again
late in the 2nd half on a sick jump flick shot in what would be the
winning goal as Sakell pulls one back late with a sweet chip shot)

Round 3:

Nick Giffen 3-1 Michael Sakell (Nick with a few easy chances,
Sakell's goal is a penalty shot with 5 seconds left)

Nick Giffen 4-3 Matt Giffen (Nick scores 8 seconds into the match
and matt ties it up 1-1 on a nice mover.  Nick then scores 3 moving
goals unanswered to go up 4-1, but Matt keeps composure to pull back
to 4-3 and misses a shot with 10 seconds left that would have tied
it).

Matt Giffen v. Michael Sakell -- PPD due to dinnertime


League Standings:

Nick     6 played 18 points
Matt     5 played 3 points
Michael  5 played 3 points

Matt and michael have the game in hand to make up 3 full rounds.  7
full rounds will complete the giffenliga.

The Big Kahuna Weekend of Connecticut is getting closer!
Jim Taylor, Eddie Davidson and Massimo Conturso met yesterday night in
Farmington for a warm-up session.
Check the 2004 NEMO page at
http://www.sc-connecticut.com

Next session is schedule for Friday, August 6th in Farmington at the Davidson's
residence. Mike Benkart from Pittsburgh will attend the meeting.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Last night was Matchday 2 in the Maryland Subbuteo League's
Premiership. Two new players joined in, giving us 8 for this first
season and now, a 14-match schedule for all involved. Here are last
night's results:

Randy 2:1 Andrew (didn't see this one, was played before I arrived at
the stadium, but Randy wins his league debut.)
Randy 1:0 Bill (Randy sweeps the Prantl household in his first runthrough)
Rob 1:1 Andrew (Point in debut for Rob Tucker)
Ed 2:0 Andrew
Rob 0:0 Bill (Rob gets 2 points from 2 matches)
Paul 4:0 Randy (City keep rolling, even though they were wearing
Brondby kits)
Ed 3:0 Randy (nil-nil at HT, but Ed capitalizes on a buggy pitch late)
Paul 4:0 Rob (welcome to the MSC, Rob. :) )
Ed 4:0 Bill (Finishing much better for Ed in this match, including a
"called shot")
Paul 3:0 Andrew

NEWBIE DERBY I
Randy 1:0 Rob (Chances both ways, Randy holds on well for 3 vital points).

PRANTL DERBY II
Bill 1:1 Andrew (Goals this time, but nothing separates the clubs in
the Prantl Stadium for Season I).

FOUNDERS DERBY XXXIX
Paul 4:1 Ed (ugly match for Ed, played well, but stupid mistake puts
him down 0-1; sick curl flick puts him down 0-2; keen buildup cuts it
to 1-2 just before HT; I don't remember the third goal; fourth on a
mover with 20 seconds left).

The good news is that after 24 league fixtures, every player has now
scored. Every player has also had a goal scored on them. Here is the
table:

9-0-0 27 Paul
6-2-0 18 Ed
3-2-0 9 Randy
2-2-0 6 Nick
0-4-3 3 Bill
0-5-3 3 Andrew
0-2-2 2 Rob
0-3-0 0 John

Top scorer is Paul with 31 goals; top defender is Paul, with 1
conceded. The league has seen 62 goals in 24 matches, an average of
2.58 per fixture.

The Club's Competition Committee decided last night that the winner of
  Premiership Season I will play all Premiership Season II matches down
a player.

Matchday 3, with a reduced schedule, is planned for Monday night.

More MSC information is available at http://www.subbuteousa.com

Ed Morgans
MSC co-founder and stat boy

> Bunch of corporate hacks who wouldn't know
> a cross to the back post if it hit them in the face.


And three Giffens too ;-)

Yeah, there were 54,000, but it's a shame that no one woke them up to
clue them in that there was a match going on. No singing from either
side, no chanting, nothing. Bunch of corporate hacks who wouldn't know
a cross to the back post if it hit them in the face.

--- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, "Massimo" <conturso@s...> wrote:
> --- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Davidson <eddie@p...> wrote:
> > He works for Champions World, and FSW has to take him - and he's so
> > freaking awful.
> >
> > What is the crowd in philly like?
>
> 54,000
>
> AND MAN U LOST! YEAH!!
> (oops, did I say that loud?)

--- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Davidson <eddie@p...> wrote:
> He works for Champions World, and FSW has to take him - and he's so
> freaking awful.
>
> What is the crowd in philly like?

54,000

AND MAN U LOST! YEAH!!
(oops, did I say that loud?)

--- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, "werderwayne" <ismith@s...>
wrote:
> --- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jtholt@y...> wrote:
> >They looked very young
> > and green out there on Saturday and how we missed Larsson!!
> >
>
> They looked quite green and white to me.  I'm sorry you didn't
>enjoy
> the match.  I didn't either.  Cletic really must tighten their
> defense.  Giving up 9 goals in 2 games won't get it done.  It was
> incredible how open they left opponents in the box.  I trust they
> will tighten things up before the season starts.  The season
>hasn't
> even started, so these things happen.
>
> -WW

See, they look better already!  Celtic 2, Man U 1.

-WW

He works for Champions World, and FSW has to take him - and he's so
freaking awful.

What is the crowd in philly like?


On Wednesday, July 28, 2004, at 09:38  PM, Massimo wrote:

>> They looked quite green and white to me.  I'm sorry you didn't
> enjoy
>> the match.  I didn't either.  Cletic really must tighten their
>> defense.  Giving up 9 goals in 2 games won't get it done.  It was
>> incredible how open they left opponents in the box.  I trust they
>> will tighten things up before the season starts.  The season hasn't
>> even started, so these things happen.
>
> Yeah, not big deal.
> Last summer, Juve lost Man U 4-1 at Giant Stadium (it could have
> easily been 6-1). I remember being so pissed with Giorgio Chinaglia
> and his stupid, anti-Juve comments. You could tell he was enjoying
> the game! Well, he also needed to sell the product, so I don't blame
> him. I BLAME THOSE AT FWS THAT STILL PAY HIM TO DO SILLY COMMENTARY.
> Chinaglia had to come here in the US to find work again, because
> nobody wants to listem to his delirium in Italy anymore.
> Exactly what happened when he signed for NY Cosmos, I guess...
>
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: tablesoccer@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    tablesoccer-subscribe@onelist.com
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>
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, "Massimo" <conturso@s...> wrote:
> > They looked quite green and white to me.  I'm sorry you didn't
> enjoy
> > the match.  I didn't either.  Cletic really must tighten their
> > defense.  Giving up 9 goals in 2 games won't get it done.  It was
> > incredible how open they left opponents in the box.  I trust they
> > will tighten things up before the season starts.  The season
hasn't
> > even started, so these things happen.
>
> Yeah, not big deal.

Craig Beattie-goal!
See, no big deal
;-)

> They looked quite green and white to me.  I'm sorry you didn't
enjoy
> the match.  I didn't either.  Cletic really must tighten their
> defense.  Giving up 9 goals in 2 games won't get it done.  It was
> incredible how open they left opponents in the box.  I trust they
> will tighten things up before the season starts.  The season hasn't
> even started, so these things happen.

Yeah, not big deal.
Last summer, Juve lost Man U 4-1 at Giant Stadium (it could have
easily been 6-1). I remember being so pissed with Giorgio Chinaglia
and his stupid, anti-Juve comments. You could tell he was enjoying
the game! Well, he also needed to sell the product, so I don't blame
him. I BLAME THOSE AT FWS THAT STILL PAY HIM TO DO SILLY COMMENTARY.
Chinaglia had to come here in the US to find work again, because
nobody wants to listem to his delirium in Italy anymore.
Exactly what happened when he signed for NY Cosmos, I guess...

--- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jtholt@y...> wrote:
>They looked very young
> and green out there on Saturday and how we missed Larsson!!
>

They looked quite green and white to me.  I'm sorry you didn't enjoy
the match.  I didn't either.  Cletic really must tighten their
defense.  Giving up 9 goals in 2 games won't get it done.  It was
incredible how open they left opponents in the box.  I trust they
will tighten things up before the season starts.  The season hasn't
even started, so these things happen.

-WW

About 10 days are left before the NEMO flick-off on Saturday 8/7/2004
morning, 10am at the FPD.
The field, despite the heavy loss of the Davidsons, is strong as the
whole Portuguese clan and the N.E. Champion Andrea Gasparini
confirmed their presence at the Major Open. NYC's Massimo Cutuli, Ed
Morgan from MD, Jeremy Goodwin from MA and PA's Mike Benkart are the
out-of-towners so far, but the hope is to sign the Long Island's
Greek cousins as well.
The temporary total is 14 players.

If you are interested in attending the event or for any other
question, please contact our ASA VP, Jim Taylor at
jimpoisson @ hotmail.com
or myself at
conturso @ sbcglobal.net

Thanks,



Massimo

Andrew,

No subby in NO at this time, but let me know if you need any food
recommendations.

I love Drago's in Metairie, local spot - no tourists.

E
On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:23  AM, uvagiff wrote:

> Mike,
> I will be in New Orleans for a wedding the weekend unfortunately.
> The NEMO is being held in Connecticut - Farmington Police
> Department.  If you can go I highly recommend it because there will
> be a lot of players and also very good competition.

I attended the Celtic/Chelsea game in Seattle on the 24th of July,
and I had a proper Irish Breakfast at Fado (a local Irish Pub)
followed by a few armfuls of Guinness. Had my Celtic jersey on and
sang my heart out. It was 95 degrees - very hot, and Celtic came
close, but their defense struggled mightily. Sutton (Celtic striker)
was totally disgusted with the team, as he was not happy at all. In
the 2-4 losing battle with Chelsea, two of the goals were one on one
goals where the young Celtic goalkeeper (19 yrs old) had no chance.
By the 75th minute, you could tell the players just wanted off the
field as it was too damned hot.
So as I cried my eyes out and then some more after I heard of the 1-
5 slapping against Liverpool a few days later, I took out my
Subbuteo with the Celtic and Rangers and made sure Celtic won once
and for all.... But they had better get some bodies before the
season starts in a few weeks, or else Celtic will find themselves on
the other end of the standings this season. They looked very young
and green out there on Saturday and how we missed Larsson!!

--- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Davidson <eddie@p...>
wrote:
> Celtic looked very poor.
>
> Too bad we missed Andrea - would have been cool
>
> e
>
> On Monday, July 26, 2004, at 10:34  PM, Massimo wrote:
>
> >
> > no, it's not Chicago White Sox, but Champions World Series, the
big
> > circus of soccer!
> > Eddie, his wife, Jim, my wife and myself just got back from East
> > Hartford where we saw Liverpool kicking Celtic's butt big time:
5-1
> > but it could have been 6-1 since Liverpool hit a clamorous post
in
> > the 2nd half. Andrea Gasparini tried to join us via-phone, but
the
> > 25,000 in the stadium were quite loud (to be that few..) and I
missed
> > his calls.
> > Looks like Celtic will be missing Larsson more than they thought.
> > (Bigfatdoh, don't get too excited now!)
> >
> >

I was just reading about all the teams available...I'm glad Werder
Bremen isn't available...I couldn't take the insults!  ;o)

Great reading.

Question:  Do sure shot bases include a washer?
Question 2:  Is there an update on the availablility of the Stefan
Corda figures?  Or a price?

Thanks.

-WW

Yeah, but didn't they say that the rate included shuttle service to and
from the draw and both days of the event??? Sounded like  a great deal
to me, but what do I know...


On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 05:49 PM, Massimo wrote:

> --- In tablesoccer@yahoogroups.com, "Massimo" <conturso@s...> wrote:
> > Finally, we have the hotel info!
>
> Nevermind, they're both out of town. The venue is 10-minute (walking)
> away from the train station, right there in the center. Better look
> for something else, if po$$ible..
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: tablesoccer@onelist.com
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>
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>
>
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>
>
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]