Responding to interesting posts by Sharon and Walt . .. first, thanks
for sharing your experience as professional soldiers. I don't have a
military background, but appreciate the difficulties a soldier would
face in a combat situation moving around, especially burdened with
protective vest, backpack and gear.

I have a somewhat related query: handling falling with either someone
on your back or being on someone's back. Situations where you might
face this include rescue carries or fights with bearhugs. I've just
been practicing with a willing partner, but it feels clumsy enough
that we're still on mats, eventually hoping to move out to grass and
pavement for a little reality. Rolling out seems to be viable where
I'm the one on the back, but if I'm the one carrying or in a bearhug,
there's less control. We're also limited in training by the limits
of our skill and control in falling, and not wanting to land on top
of the partner risking a cracked rib or two.

In my view, although Systema training practices are all so useful in
so many ways, falling and rolling are particularly useful for modern
urban environments if one is prone to slip and falls (weak ankles and
a serious attraction between my center of mass and gravity keeps me
livin on the edge;- ] ).

--- In systema_group@yahoogroups.com, Walt Robillard <kroh01@y...>
wrote:
> In Systema, how does the falling and rolling that you do apply to
modern times? I have only seen little of the system ( and frankly i
am intrigued), but do you do some of your training in modern combat
gear including 'vests' and web gear?
>
> I am a long time student of Japanese martial arts and I know that
when I was green (US Army), i always had an interesting time trying
to do breakfalling while wearing my LBE (Load Bearing Equipment).
Now don't get me wrong, i am not talking about the whole combat roll
thingy you see in the big budget action ho-downs..I am talking about
dodging bullets and suddenly tripping on a tree root or over some one
else who falls directly in front of you.
>
> Just wondering...
> Thanx for the minute...
> WalT
>
> systema_group@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. falling and rolling in different styles.
> From: "Sharon Friedman"
> 2. armour and chain mail
> From: Rachel Klingberg
>
>
>
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>
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>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:04:25 -0000
> From: "Sharon Friedman"
> Subject: falling and rolling in different styles.
>
> Hi to everyone,
>
> I am a long time Korindo Aikido student and new to Systema. I am
also
> an infantry soldier and after training with a Systema student I
think
> I have a small observation. In Japan the warrior class who
> specialized in the sword and spear rather than the bow wore heavy
> rigid armor while their Russian counterparts wore light chain mail
> Armour and used low stirrups to mount their charges. From that
> cultural and technological difference evolved two styles that while
> in Korindo the heavy armored warrior would have a hard time to rise
> from the ground or even bend to the sides or squat in his heavy
rigid
> Armour and I have been there myself in bullet proof vests that
weight
> twenty seven KG (60 pounds). The Russian warrior who had more
freedom
> of movement and less weight on his back could drop to the ground
and
> rise again without having use the energy of the fall to get up
again.
> he could also bend to the sides from the waist without having to
> consider the weight of his helmet and breast plate. Another change
is
> that the Russians could use the movements and sensitivities of the
> torso to manipulate their environment which was void by the hard
> Japanese Armour.
>
> Many thanks for the lesson, Sharon Friedman.
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 06:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Rachel Klingberg
> Subject: armour and chain mail
>
> Hi Sharon,
> I have heard that the chain mail worn by Russian
> knights led to the fluid movements of Systema, because
> chain mail can only be cut by a sword if it's taut.
> Like a piece of fabric, if you try to cut it with a
> scissor, you have to first hold it taut. The
> always-in-motion, fluid movements of Systema would
> make it hard to cut through chain mail with a blade.
> Knights of the British realm also wore full plate
> armour, and it generally thought that their mobility
> was severely restricted, but there are stories of
> knights who could leap onto their horses fully
> armoured, or run at full speed thus clad. I believe
> King Edward the III was well-known for his mobility in
> armor.
> I wish there was more documentation of the medieval
> history of Systema, but except for some stories of
> exceptional battles, it seems to have been passed down
> as an oral tradition, kept close within families or
> monasteries. There is not much written material on
> Systema; I only know of Vladimir Vasiliev's Russian
> System Guidebook, at least in English, perhaps more
> has been written about it in Russian.
> *Vsego nailuchshego* (best wishes),
> Rachel
>
>
>
> --- Sharon Friedman wrote:
>
> > Hi to everyone,
> >
> > I am a long time Korindo Aikido student and new to
> > Systema. I am also
> > an infantry soldier and after training with a
> > Systema student I think
> > I have a small observation. In Japan the warrior
> > class who
> > specialized in the sword and spear rather than the
> > bow wore heavy
> > rigid armor while their Russian counterparts wore
> > light chain mail
> > Armour and used low stirrups to mount their charges.
> > From that
> > cultural and technological difference evolved two
> > styles that while
> > in Korindo the heavy armored warrior would have a
> > hard time to rise
> > from the ground or even bend to the sides or squat
> > in his heavy rigid
> > Armour and I have been there myself in bullet proof
> > vests that weight
> > twenty seven KG (60 pounds). The Russian warrior who
> > had more freedom
> > of movement and less weight on his back could drop
> > to the ground and
> > rise again without having use the energy of the fall
> > to get up again.
> > he could also bend to the sides from the waist
> > without having to
> > consider the weight of his helmet and breast plate.
> > Another change is
> > that the Russians could use the movements and
> > sensitivities of the
> > torso to manipulate their environment which was void
> > by the hard
> > Japanese Armour.
> >
> > Many thanks for the lesson, Sharon Friedman.
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
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