Hi Walt,
I'm a civilian and unfortunately I can't answer your
question. I've seen Martin Wheeler, a senior Systema
instructor, fall and roll with a long staff down one
pant leg, or through one shirt sleeve and out the
other (across the back of the shoulders), or down his
back. So I am sure he could fall and roll in body
armour or other protective gear. Sometimes in class we
fall and roll with the staffs across the back of our
shoulders, arms draped over, like a milkmaid. This is
a method of restraint used on prisoners-of-war. But
our training doesn't include working with protective
gear or other military equipment aside from a simple
practice knife or gun.
I know that in the civilian as well as the combat
Systema training, we don't do breakfalling but always
hit the ground softly, landing on soft parts such a
the butt or shoulder, never hitting the hands on the
ground.
Tripping is just another way to go to the ground. Last
night in class we practiced having our partners shove
us from all directions, or sweep one of our legs, and
we had to fall into a roll. This is good practice for
tripping. Rather than spending too much energy trying
to stay upright, we just accept that falling and
rolling are part of combat. We don't fight against
gravity. It's difficult for me, after almost a year of
practice, to dive into a roll from a standing
position. I have a psychological fear of hitting the
ground. My teacher tried to logically explain that
diving into a roll from a standing position is no
different from rolling from a crouching position. You
lean into the roll and the distance to the floor is
just the same. So I've been working from rolling while
on all fours, with my knees off the ground. If my
knees touch the ground, I have no fear, but once they
are off the ground, I have the psychological barrier.
I need to practice more. I am actually considering
taking a private lesson just to learn rolls, we can't
spend too much time on it in class, as most people who
have been attending for a few months have no problem
rolling. I feel as if my training is being held back
by my inability to roll so it's something I really
want to address.
I am sorry that I drifted into talking about me. I
meant to tell you that perhaps Sharon would weigh in,
as he has been in the military for ten years and is
also a longtime student of Japanese MAs. You could
also post your question to to the official forum:
http://www.russianmartialart.com/forum where Sharon
also posts, and where there are a lot of military
people who can offer advice...Jim King is a senior
instructor, former Army Ranger, and has much
experience with all things military. He hangs out on
the official forum also and would probably weigh in on
your question.
I hope that helps.
*Vsego nailuchshego* (best wishes),
Rachel

--- Walt Robillard <kroh01@...> wrote:

> In Systema, how does the falling and rolling that
> you do apply to modern times? I have only seen
> little of the system ( and frankly i am intrigued),
> but do you do some of your training in modern combat
> gear including 'vests' and web gear?
>
> I am a long time student of Japanese martial arts
> and I know that when I was green (US Army), i always
> had an interesting time trying to do breakfalling
> while wearing my LBE (Load Bearing Equipment). Now
> don't get me wrong, i am not talking about the whole
> combat roll thingy you see in the big budget action
> ho-downs..I am talking about dodging bullets and
> suddenly tripping on a tree root or over some one
> else who falls directly in front of you.
>
> Just wondering...
> Thanx for the minute...
> WalT
>
> systema_group@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. falling and rolling in different styles.
> From: "Sharon Friedman"
> 2. armour and chain mail
> From: Rachel Klingberg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:04:25 -0000
> From: "Sharon Friedman"
> Subject: falling and rolling in different styles.
>
> Hi to everyone,
>
> I am a long time Korindo Aikido student and new to
> Systema. I am also
> an infantry soldier and after training with a
> Systema student I think
> I have a small observation. In Japan the warrior
> class who
> specialized in the sword and spear rather than the
> bow wore heavy
> rigid armor while their Russian counterparts wore
> light chain mail
> Armour and used low stirrups to mount their charges.
> From that
> cultural and technological difference evolved two
> styles that while
> in Korindo the heavy armored warrior would have a
> hard time to rise
> from the ground or even bend to the sides or squat
> in his heavy rigid
> Armour and I have been there myself in bullet proof
> vests that weight
> twenty seven KG (60 pounds). The Russian warrior who
> had more freedom
> of movement and less weight on his back could drop
> to the ground and
> rise again without having use the energy of the fall
> to get up again.
> he could also bend to the sides from the waist
> without having to
> consider the weight of his helmet and breast plate.
> Another change is
> that the Russians could use the movements and
> sensitivities of the
> torso to manipulate their environment which was void
> by the hard
> Japanese Armour.
>
> Many thanks for the lesson, Sharon Friedman.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 06:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Rachel Klingberg
> Subject: armour and chain mail
>
> Hi Sharon,
> I have heard that the chain mail worn by Russian
> knights led to the fluid movements of Systema,
> because
> chain mail can only be cut by a sword if it's taut.
> Like a piece of fabric, if you try to cut it with a
> scissor, you have to first hold it taut. The
> always-in-motion, fluid movements of Systema would
> make it hard to cut through chain mail with a blade.
>
> Knights of the British realm also wore full plate
> armour, and it generally thought that their mobility
> was severely restricted, but there are stories of
> knights who could leap onto their horses fully
> armoured, or run at full speed thus clad. I believe
> King Edward the III was well-known for his mobility
> in
> armor.
> I wish there was more documentation of the medieval
> history of Systema, but except for some stories of
> exceptional battles, it seems to have been passed
> down
> as an oral tradition, kept close within families or
> monasteries. There is not much written material on
> Systema; I only know of Vladimir Vasiliev's Russian
> System Guidebook, at least in English, perhaps more
> has been written about it in Russian.
> *Vsego nailuchshego* (best wishes),
> Rachel
>
>
>
> --- Sharon Friedman wrote:
>
> > Hi to everyone,
> >
> > I am a long time Korindo Aikido student and new to
> > Systema. I am also
> > an infantry soldier and after training with a
> > Systema student I think
> > I have a small observation. In Japan the warrior
> > class who
> > specialized in the sword and spear rather than the
> > bow wore heavy
> > rigid armor while their Russian counterparts wore
> > light chain mail
> > Armour and used low stirrups to mount their
> charges.
> > From that
> > cultural and technological difference evolved two
> > styles that while
> > in Korindo the heavy armored warrior would have a
> > hard time to rise
> > from the ground or even bend to the sides or squat
> > in his heavy rigid
> > Armour and I have been there myself in bullet
> proof
> > vests that weight
> > twenty seven KG (60 pounds). The Russian warrior
> who
> > had more freedom
> > of movement and less weight on his back could drop
> > to the ground and
> > rise again without having use the energy of the
> fall
> > to get up again.
> > he could also bend to the sides from the waist
> > without having to
> > consider the weight of his helmet and breast
> plate.
> > Another change is
> > that the Russians could use the movements and
> > sensitivities of the
> > torso to manipulate their environment which was
> void
> > by the hard
> > Japanese Armour.
> >
> > Many thanks for the lesson, Sharon Friedman.
> >
> >
>
>
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