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I also have become more aware of all the grave statistical mistakes I have made in the past. If you don't have the time to learn how to program (in at least one of the software packages) for the more complicated analyses (and maybe even for the simple ones), then you probably don't have the time to learn all the nuances and things to avoid doing that everyone is else is doing but doing them wrong. I have had some wonderful collaborations with statisticians and if you can find one that is interested in your research question, use him/her - it is also a great way to get free private tutoring.
Here is a little saying that maybe is a bit harsh and over the top, but it does make a point that we have to be very careful:
_______
“A mistake in the operating room can threaten
the life of one patient; a mistake in statistical analysis or interpretation
can lead to hundreds of early deaths. So it is perhaps odd that, while we allow
a doctor to conduct surgery only after years of training, we give SPSS to
almost anyone”
Vickers
A. Interpreting data from randomized trials: the Scandinavian prostatectomy
study illustrates two common errors. Nat Clin Pract Urol 2005;2(9):404-5.
________
Ian Shrier MD, PhD, Dip Sport Med, FACSM
Associate Professor, Dep't of Fam Med, McGill University
Associate Professor, Dep't of Fam Med, McGill University
Past-President, Canadian Academy of Sport Medicine
Check out: www.casm-acms.org
SKYPE name: ian.shrier
Centre for Clinical Epidemiology and Community Studies
SMBD-Jewish General Hospital
3755 Cote Ste-Catherine Rd
Montreal, Qc H3T 1E2
Tel: 514-340-7563
Fax: 514-340-7564
SKYPE name: ian.shrier
Centre for Clinical Epidemiology and Community Studies
SMBD-Jewish General Hospital
3755 Cote Ste-Catherine Rd
Montreal, Qc H3T 1E2
Tel: 514-340-7563
Fax: 514-340-7564
On 9-Jan-09, at 5:53 PM, gerrobrein wrote:
Hi Will,
Great to see some action happening on this list.
Personally, I don't think that providing a menu-driven interface is
of any help. We discussed it a while ago when you came down to
Dunedin. I really am convinced that tables and mice don't do the
trick. Also, I'm 100% percent sure that an undergrad not being
polluted by Excel, SPSS or the like (try SPSS's scripting language if
you want to see strange concepts by the way) will learn R in no time.
Getting used to the commands may seem complicated at first but once
you deal with real data, which tends to be really messy, it will be
difficult to find the right menu anyway, because typically it doesn't
exist yet.
Further, as the amount of data in our area is also constantly on the
rise: From my own experience, for my master and my PhD I analyzed
whole body joint kinematics:
Master: ~216000 Data pts
PhD: ~157500000 Data pts
Today, there is just no escape from getting profficient in at least
one programming language. Might as well be R.
Anyway, I'll try the R commander over the weekend and give some
feedback.
Cheers
Rob
--- In sportsci_rtutorial@yahoogroups.com, "Will Hopkins" <will@...>
wrote:I presume folks won't mind if this interaction continues via thelist.Others might make some useful comments.I hadn't realized a menu-driven R was up and running. If that'swhat theNYT article was referring to, it would imply that menu-driven R iseasier touse than all the other menu-driven stats packages. Is R's menuinterface anydifferent from any other? Does the interface somehow capture R'sstrangeconcepts/jargon for specifying data and models (which I stillhaven'tattempted to understand, I must admit)?WillFrom: sportsci_rtutorial@yahoogroups.com[mailto:sportsci_rtutorial@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian ShrierSent: Friday, 9 January 2009 11:17 a.m.To: sportsci_rtutorial@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [sportsci_rtutorial] R article at the new york timesWillWithin R, there is a feature called R Commander. Once loaded, it ismenu-driven. Further, as it runs, it writes the code so you learnhow toprogram as you go along.Unfortunately, I only learned about it after I went through thesteepestpart of the learning curve. And although I probably should use itsometimes,I tend to rely on the help documentation or my statistician friendwho is anR grand master...very helpful if you have one.Ian Shrier MD, PhD, Dip Sport Med, FACSMAssociate Professor, Dep't of Fam Med, McGill UniversityPast-President, Canadian Academy of Sport MedicineCheck out: www.casm-acms.orgSKYPE name: ian.shrierCentre for Clinical Epidemiology and Community StudiesSMBD-Jewish General Hospital3755 Cote Ste-Catherine RdMontreal, Qc H3T 1E2Tel: 514-340-7563Fax: 514-340-7564On 8-Jan-09, at 4:05 PM, Will Hopkins wrote:"But R has also quickly found a following because statisticians,engineersand scientists without computer programming skills find it easy touse."This is an example of why I don't read newspapers on or off line.WillFrom: sportsci_rtutorial@yahoogroups.com[mailto:sportsci_rtutorial@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gerrobreinSent: Friday, 9 January 2009 1:29 a.m.To: sportsci_rtutorial@yahoogroups.comSubject: [sportsci_rtutorial] R article at the new york timeshttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html?_r=2
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