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#411 From: "soccerdatauk" <soccer@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: Football 1863-1888 - an ongoing project
soccerdatauk
Offline Offline
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Right, things are up and running on google docs.  To see the spreadsheet you
will need a google account.  It's some time since I opened mine, but I don't
recall any problems.  Once done, please email me at soccer@... to
register your interest.  I will then issue an "invitation" which I beileve you
will see when you log in to google docs.  Accept that, and you should be in
business. (I find I can only issue the invitation if you have a google account).

The spreadsheet proper is followed by guidance notes and a task list, which we
can fill in as we go along.

Have fun!

Regards, Tony



--- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, "soccerdatauk" <soccer@...> wrote:
>
> Some of you will have noticed a distinct lack of progress with this project. 
It just doesn't work very well with yahoo's database, due to problems posting to
it and the limitation on size.  It looks far more sensible to set the database
up as a Google "docs" spreadsheet, which will allow anyone to update the
database.  I think I have to give you permission first, so please email me at
soccer@... if you'd like to be involved.
>
> Once I'm sure I understand how 'docs' works I'll mail again.
>
> Regards, Tony
>
>
>
>
> --- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, "soccerdatauk" <soccer@> wrote:
> >
> > To see the fledgling databases, you should be able to click on the
"database" label in the box on the left of the soccerdatauk home page (not the
soccerdata.com website, though I plan to add pages to the web site later to add
more details on the evolution of the laws of the game and the players involved).
> >
> > The yahoo database limits me to 10 fields, which are currently set to
season, competition, date, home club, score, away club, score, ground, and
notes, leaving one spare.  The version on my computer has more fields of course,
including the player names.  However, there's a good deal of work still to do on
the names before it's ready to be published - by including club matches as well
as FA Cup games I'm hoping to iron out differences in spelling and other obvious
errors.
> >
> > I'm interested to hear of the work you've done in collating Sheffield
football.  If you'd like to add your findings to the yahoo database that will be
good; I haven't tried a 'bulk input' yet, but it looks a simple matter to
convert my existing data to a comma delimited format, whence it can be sucked
into the yahoo database.  The big advantage to this approach is that anyone can
add to the database; I haven't got the technology to allow this to happen on
soccerdata.com.
> >
> > There's an issue of 'copyright' and 'intellectual property' of course. 
Speaking for myself, I'll be pleased to see a 'fixtures, results and dates'
database in the public domain, even if the full database of scorers and line-ups
is retained for private use.  My data is "fairly" comprehensive for "association
rules in the London area to 1874" thanks to Bell's Life and some extracts from
"Field".  I have little on Sheffield-rules fixtures though imagine there was
more activity in the 1860s than in London.  Yes, we should state the rules
adopted when known, and someday I'll try to establish exactly what "Nottingham
Rules" were! I'm happy to make the tenth field "code followed".
> >
> > My FA Cup data to 1888 is comprehensive, with Keith Richards and others
kindly been combing Field and Sportsman for more details.  However, I have done
little work on 'other games' in the period 1877 to 1888, largely because (as you
will appreciate) of the big upswing in the number of games played.  Certainly,
by 1885 or so, we probably need to be in a "match by match" type of format for
the leading clubs.  In the upcoming weeks I'll post "what I've got" for this
period and perhaps others in the group will be happy to join in.
> >
> > Regards, Tony
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, "bty958590" <i.nannestad@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > > What fields are you using already? One possibility would be to give
details of the type of association code played: London, Sheffield, Scottish or
other (which will usually be a local code). That will provide a better picture
of the extent of the Sheffield code and whether it was more popular than the
London code. I have details of games under Sheffield rules stretching from
Birmingham in the south to Middlesbrough in the north and across to Grimsby (but
not on the other side of the Pennines).
> > >
> > > Ian Nannestad
> > >
> >
>

#410 From: "soccerdatauk" <soccer@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:25 pm
Subject: Re: Football 1863-1888 - an ongoing project
soccerdatauk
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Some of you will have noticed a distinct lack of progress with this project.  It
just doesn't work very well with yahoo's database, due to problems posting to it
and the limitation on size.  It looks far more sensible to set the database up
as a Google "docs" spreadsheet, which will allow anyone to update the database. 
I think I have to give you permission first, so please email me at
soccer@... if you'd like to be involved.

Once I'm sure I understand how 'docs' works I'll mail again.

Regards, Tony




--- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, "soccerdatauk" <soccer@...> wrote:
>
> To see the fledgling databases, you should be able to click on the "database"
label in the box on the left of the soccerdatauk home page (not the
soccerdata.com website, though I plan to add pages to the web site later to add
more details on the evolution of the laws of the game and the players involved).
>
> The yahoo database limits me to 10 fields, which are currently set to season,
competition, date, home club, score, away club, score, ground, and notes,
leaving one spare.  The version on my computer has more fields of course,
including the player names.  However, there's a good deal of work still to do on
the names before it's ready to be published - by including club matches as well
as FA Cup games I'm hoping to iron out differences in spelling and other obvious
errors.
>
> I'm interested to hear of the work you've done in collating Sheffield
football.  If you'd like to add your findings to the yahoo database that will be
good; I haven't tried a 'bulk input' yet, but it looks a simple matter to
convert my existing data to a comma delimited format, whence it can be sucked
into the yahoo database.  The big advantage to this approach is that anyone can
add to the database; I haven't got the technology to allow this to happen on
soccerdata.com.
>
> There's an issue of 'copyright' and 'intellectual property' of course. 
Speaking for myself, I'll be pleased to see a 'fixtures, results and dates'
database in the public domain, even if the full database of scorers and line-ups
is retained for private use.  My data is "fairly" comprehensive for "association
rules in the London area to 1874" thanks to Bell's Life and some extracts from
"Field".  I have little on Sheffield-rules fixtures though imagine there was
more activity in the 1860s than in London.  Yes, we should state the rules
adopted when known, and someday I'll try to establish exactly what "Nottingham
Rules" were! I'm happy to make the tenth field "code followed".
>
> My FA Cup data to 1888 is comprehensive, with Keith Richards and others kindly
been combing Field and Sportsman for more details.  However, I have done little
work on 'other games' in the period 1877 to 1888, largely because (as you will
appreciate) of the big upswing in the number of games played.  Certainly, by
1885 or so, we probably need to be in a "match by match" type of format for the
leading clubs.  In the upcoming weeks I'll post "what I've got" for this period
and perhaps others in the group will be happy to join in.
>
> Regards, Tony
>
>
>
>
> --- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, "bty958590" <i.nannestad@> wrote:
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > What fields are you using already? One possibility would be to give details
of the type of association code played: London, Sheffield, Scottish or other
(which will usually be a local code). That will provide a better picture of the
extent of the Sheffield code and whether it was more popular than the London
code. I have details of games under Sheffield rules stretching from Birmingham
in the south to Middlesbrough in the north and across to Grimsby (but not on the
other side of the Pennines).
> >
> > Ian Nannestad
> >
>

#409 From: "Ralph" <ralph@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:49 am
Subject: Of interest?
la145qd
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There's an interesting website dedicated to the non-League game, Non-League
Football Matters which is a football history information site about non-League
soccer in the North of England: www.nonleaguematters.net



And in a similar vein, this one's worth a look as well:
www.nonleaguetables.co.uk

#408 From: "bty958590" <i.nannestad@...>
Date: Mon Nov 9, 2009 11:27 pm
Subject: Re: CCTV Matches
bty958590
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This is an attempt to work out the top 5 crowds at CCTV matches in England &
Scotland. I'd be interested in any comments/amendments:

1. 43177 at Ibrox, 9 April 1968: Leeds v Rangers (Fairs Cup, QF)
2. 40149 at Anfield, 11 March 1967: Everton v Liverpool (FAC, R5)
3. 28060 at Old Trafford, 3 March 1967: Arsenal v Man Utd (FL-Div 1)
4. 27245 at Old Trafford, 5 October 1977: Man Utd v St Etienne (Cup Winners Cup,
R1, 2nd leg) - the match was played at Home Park, Plymouth
5. 22500 at Old Trafford, 23 April 1969: AC Milan v Man Utd (European Cup, SF,
1st leg)

#407 From: "statto87" <jimrbrown@...>
Date: Fri Nov 6, 2009 7:40 pm
Subject: Re: CCTV Matches
statto87
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Coventry had another game shown later in 1965-66 (at Charlton). They also had a
game at Newcastle relayed back to Highfield Road in 1993-94 season. I can supply
more details if required.

Regards

Jim

--- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, "bty958590" <i.nannestad@...> wrote:
>
> I'm looking to compile a list of CCTV matches from the period 1965 to the
1980s and would be interested to know of games which were shown either on large
screens at grounds or in local cinemas. The first of these was the Cardiff vs
Coventry game in Oct 1965 which was transmitted to large screens at Highfield
Road, but there were several others including a Millwall game at Oldham in
65-66, Man U at Arsenal in 66-67 and some European games. Any information will
be of interest.
>
> Ian Nannestad
>

#406 From: "Ralph" <ralph@...>
Date: Fri Nov 6, 2009 5:29 am
Subject: Football and railways
la145qd
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
This week's (Guardian) Knowledge has carried a thread which seeks to establish
which UK railway journey allows you to see the most football grounds from the
train. The winner, seems to be the Arriva Cross Country service from Plymouth to
Aberdeen.



http://guardian.chtah.com/a/tBK8bMjAY30QpAe9jDFAXrN0cyb/fvr25

#405 From: "bty958590" <i.nannestad@...>
Date: Wed Nov 4, 2009 10:04 am
Subject: CCTV Matches
bty958590
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I'm looking to compile a list of CCTV matches from the period 1965 to the 1980s
and would be interested to know of games which were shown either on large
screens at grounds or in local cinemas. The first of these was the Cardiff vs
Coventry game in Oct 1965 which was transmitted to large screens at Highfield
Road, but there were several others including a Millwall game at Oldham in
65-66, Man U at Arsenal in 66-67 and some European games. Any information will
be of interest.

Ian Nannestad

#404 From: "uptonga" <uptonga@...>
Date: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:02 pm
Subject: Re: Everton Collection now online
uptonga
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks - this one worked. The first one I got had a spurious full stop after
".org.uk/home"

Gil Upton



--- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, steve flanagan <steve.flanagan@...> wrote:
>
> Try it again
> http://www.evertoncollection.org.uk/home
>
> Not sure what went wrong with the last link
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> 2009/9/24 uptonga <uptonga@...>
>
> >
> >
> > Have tried the link a couple of times but get "404 Not found"
> >
> > --- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com <soccerdatauk%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > steve flanagan <steve.flanagan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > All
> > > The Everton Collection has undergone it's digitisation process and can
> > now
> > > be viewed online at http://www.evertoncollection.org.uk/home.
> > >
> > > If you are looking for anything relating to a particular team, then this
> > can
> > > be done by clicking on the Teams entry on the menu bar at the top and
> > then
> > > selecting your team. This will then bring up a full list of items in the
> > > collection relating to that team, be it programmes, entries into the
> > > official club ledgers, etc. Viewing is completely free to all.
> > >
> > > However, please note that not everything is on there at present (there
> > are
> > > over 15,000 separate items) - but should be in the near future.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

#403 From: steve flanagan <steve.flanagan@...>
Date: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:33 am
Subject: Re: Re: Everton Collection now online
everton_foot...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Try it again


Not sure what went wrong with the last link

Steve



2009/9/24 uptonga <uptonga@...>
 

Have tried the link a couple of times but get "404 Not found"

--- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, steve flanagan <steve.flanagan@...> wrote:
>
> All
> The Everton Collection has undergone it's digitisation process and can now
> be viewed online at http://www.evertoncollection.org.uk/home.
>
> If you are looking for anything relating to a particular team, then this can
> be done by clicking on the Teams entry on the menu bar at the top and then
> selecting your team. This will then bring up a full list of items in the
> collection relating to that team, be it programmes, entries into the
> official club ledgers, etc. Viewing is completely free to all.
>
> However, please note that not everything is on there at present (there are
> over 15,000 separate items) - but should be in the near future.
>
> Regards
>
> Steve
>



#402 From: "Steve Wells" <sjwells1@...>
Date: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:01 pm
Subject: RE: Re: Everton Collection now online
sjwells1...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Same here, worked OK for me

 

 

Steve Wells

Histon FC Historian

 

 

From: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AGreenwood
Sent: 24 September 2009 21:01
To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [soccerdatauk] Re: Everton Collection now online

 

 

I was on early today, great stuff!

Art Greenwood
--- On Thu, 9/24/09, uptonga <uptonga@...> wrote:


From: uptonga <uptonga@...>
Subject: [soccerdatauk] Re: Everton Collection now online
To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 3:43 PM

 

Have tried the link a couple of times but get "404 Not found"

--- In soccerdatauk@ yahoogroups. com, steve flanagan <steve.flanagan@ ...> wrote:
>
> All
> The Everton Collection has undergone it's digitisation process and can now
> be viewed online at http://www.evertonc ollection. org.uk/home.
>
> If you are looking for anything relating to a particular team, then this can
> be done by clicking on the Teams entry on the menu bar at the top and then
> selecting your team. This will then bring up a full list of items in the
> collection relating to that team, be it programmes, entries into the
> official club ledgers, etc. Viewing is completely free to all.
>
> However, please note that not everything is on there at present (there are
> over 15,000 separate items) - but should be in the near future.
>
> Regards
>
> Steve
>

 


#401 From: AGreenwood <agreenwo12@...>
Date: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:00 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Everton Collection now online
agreenwo12
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
I was on early today, great stuff!

Art Greenwood
--- On Thu, 9/24/09, uptonga <uptonga@...> wrote:

From: uptonga <uptonga@...>
Subject: [soccerdatauk] Re: Everton Collection now online
To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 3:43 PM

 
Have tried the link a couple of times but get "404 Not found"

--- In soccerdatauk@ yahoogroups. com, steve flanagan <steve.flanagan@ ...> wrote:
>
> All
> The Everton Collection has undergone it's digitisation process and can now
> be viewed online at http://www.evertonc ollection. org.uk/home.
>
> If you are looking for anything relating to a particular team, then this can
> be done by clicking on the Teams entry on the menu bar at the top and then
> selecting your team. This will then bring up a full list of items in the
> collection relating to that team, be it programmes, entries into the
> official club ledgers, etc. Viewing is completely free to all.
>
> However, please note that not everything is on there at present (there are
> over 15,000 separate items) - but should be in the near future.
>
> Regards
>
> Steve
>



#400 From: "uptonga" <uptonga@...>
Date: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:43 pm
Subject: Re: Everton Collection now online
uptonga
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Have tried the link a couple of times but get "404 Not found"

--- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, steve flanagan <steve.flanagan@...> wrote:
>
> All
> The Everton Collection has undergone it's digitisation process and can now
> be viewed online at http://www.evertoncollection.org.uk/home.
>
> If you are looking for anything relating to a particular team, then this can
> be done by clicking on the Teams entry on the menu bar at the top and then
> selecting your team.  This will then bring up a full list of items in the
> collection relating to that team, be it programmes, entries into the
> official club ledgers, etc.  Viewing is completely free to all.
>
> However, please note that not everything is on there at present (there are
> over 15,000 separate items) - but should be in the near future.
>
> Regards
>
> Steve
>

#399 From: steve flanagan <steve.flanagan@...>
Date: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Everton Collection now online
everton_foot...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
All

The Everton Collection has undergone it's digitisation process and can now be viewed online at http://www.evertoncollection.org.uk/home.

If you are looking for anything relating to a particular team, then this can be done by clicking on the Teams entry on the menu bar at the top and then selecting your team.  This will then bring up a full list of items in the collection relating to that team, be it programmes, entries into the official club ledgers, etc.  Viewing is completely free to all.

However, please note that not everything is on there at present (there are over 15,000 separate items) - but should be in the near future.

Regards

Steve

#398 From: "madjohn_hufc" <john@...>
Date: Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
madjohn_hufc
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I can think of few places on the island more pleasurable to sun myself than
Snowdonia!

Tony, I would say you have the database design spot on.  It's certainly the way
I went with my own website.  A goal is a uniquely identifiable entity and
deserves its own table, and as you rightly say you can add additional info on
each individual record - minutes scored, how scored (penalty, header etc).  It
also provides the easiest (only?) method of quickly answering any possible
queries on goals, e.g. who has the most against Coventry, who has the most goals
in the last ten minutes of games, how many times did Peterborough score in the
last five minutes of games in 1987/88 etc etc

Sorry I can't be of any help with the question.  I do have the results of all FL
matches in my database, but I am only really interested in Hartlepool United so
it is only their matches where my data gets more detailed.  I can tell you who
has had five-goal FL hauls for us (Harry Simmons and Bobby Folland) and against
us (Tommy Tippett (6), Bill Chambers, Ted Harston (7), Edward Passmore, Jim
Dailey and Juan Ugarte) but, sadly, none of those games were in the top flight!

John
--- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, "soccerdatauk" <soccer@...> wrote:
>
> Apologies for my late entry into this debate. I have been sunning myself in
Snowdonia for a week, and it's not often you can say that!  I have on computer
every goal scorer since 1888, but the data is not (yet) in a form that lets me
interrogate it in the form "goalscorer = 5".  Each Match by Match book so far
published will let you find the 5-goal scorers 'manually' of course.  Design of
the 'ultimate database' is proceeding, but scorers present a small problem - do
you store them as one record (eg "Charlton 3, Best, Law"), or three records
"Charlton 3", "Best", "Law", or 5 records (Charlton, Charlton, Charlton, Best,
Law).  The latter is the method adopted, and will allow other goal details such
as "time" to be added.  It just makes the retrieval routines a little more
complicated when it comes to finding examples of multiple goals in a game. 
Regards, Tony
>
> --- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, ironopolis@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 15/09/2009 13:34:50 GMT Standard Time,
> > dan.seppings@ writes:
> >
> > I'm a new  member of this site and my first question is to ask if any of
> > you have a full  list of players who have scored 5 goals in a top division
> > game in  England.
> >
> >
> > Two Boro players from my  records:--
> > 06 Oct 1923 Andy Wilson 5(1p) for  Middlesbrough v N.Forest (H) won 5-v
> > N.For
> > 09 Sep  1935 George Camsell 5 for Middlesbrough v A.Villa (A) won 7-v
> > A.Villa
> >
> > Nigel  Gibb
> >
> > Web site  http://www.theborofc.info/
> >
>

#397 From: "soccerdatauk" <soccer@...>
Date: Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
soccerdatauk
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Apologies for my late entry into this debate. I have been sunning myself in
Snowdonia for a week, and it's not often you can say that!  I have on computer
every goal scorer since 1888, but the data is not (yet) in a form that lets me
interrogate it in the form "goalscorer = 5".  Each Match by Match book so far
published will let you find the 5-goal scorers 'manually' of course.  Design of
the 'ultimate database' is proceeding, but scorers present a small problem - do
you store them as one record (eg "Charlton 3, Best, Law"), or three records
"Charlton 3", "Best", "Law", or 5 records (Charlton, Charlton, Charlton, Best,
Law).  The latter is the method adopted, and will allow other goal details such
as "time" to be added.  It just makes the retrieval routines a little more
complicated when it comes to finding examples of multiple goals in a game. 
Regards, Tony

--- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, ironopolis@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 15/09/2009 13:34:50 GMT Standard Time,
> dan.seppings@... writes:
>
> I'm a new  member of this site and my first question is to ask if any of
> you have a full  list of players who have scored 5 goals in a top division
> game in  England.
>
>
> Two Boro players from my  records:--
> 06 Oct 1923 Andy Wilson 5(1p) for  Middlesbrough v N.Forest (H) won 5-v
> N.For
> 09 Sep  1935 George Camsell 5 for Middlesbrough v A.Villa (A) won 7-v
> A.Villa
>
> Nigel  Gibb
>
> Web site  http://www.theborofc.info/
>

#396 From: ironopolis@...
Date: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:01 pm
Subject: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
ironopolis2000
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 15/09/2009 13:34:50 GMT Standard Time, dan.seppings@... writes:
I'm a new member of this site and my first question is to ask if any of you have a full list of players who have scored 5 goals in a top division game in England.

Two Boro players from my records:--

06 Oct 1923 Andy Wilson 5(1p) for Middlesbrough v N.Forest (H) won 5-2 div.1

09 Sep 1935 George Camsell 5 for Middlesbrough v A.Villa (A) won 7-2 div.1

 
Nigel Gibb

Web site http://www.theborofc.info/

#395 From: Terry Morley <terry@...>
Date: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:30 am
Subject: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
morley.terry
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Your right just seen the "top division" part of the post, my mistake, should read fully before posting !




========================================
Message Received: Sep 16 2009, 10:14 AM
From: "mick"
To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [soccerdatauk] 5 goals in an English top division game

 



That was a Div 2 match

----- Original Message -----

From: Terry Morley

To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:17 AM

Subject: Re: [soccerdatauk] 5 goals in an English top division game


 

The one I recall being told about by my Dad was Charlton vs Huddersfield.
Charlton were losing 5.1 with about 20 minutes to go, went on to win 7.6 with Johnny Summers scoring 5. 



========================================
Message Received: Sep 15 2009, 05:13 PM
From: "mick"
To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [soccerdatauk] 5 goals in an English top division game

 

I saw it happen twice

Roger Davies for Derby County v Luton 29/3/75

Ian Rush for Liverpool v Luton 29\10\83

I do believe Tony Woodcock scored 5 for Arsenal on the same day as Ian Rush scored his five, it could have been against Aston Villa

----- Original Message -----

From: dan.seppings

To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:33 PM

Subject: [soccerdatauk] 5 goals in an English top division game


 

Hi All,

I'm a new member of this site and my first question is to ask if any of you have a full list of players who have scored 5 goals in a top division game in England.

I'd be grateful if you could help me if you have this list as I am finding it difficult to track down all the players who have achieved this feat.

Thanks,

Dan Seppings







#394 From: "mick" <m.macca@...>
Date: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:13 am
Subject: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
hattergonemaduk
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That was a Div 2 match
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [soccerdatauk] 5 goals in an English top division game

 

The one I recall being told about by my Dad was Charlton vs Huddersfield.
Charlton were losing 5.1 with about 20 minutes to go, went on to win 7.6 with Johnny Summers scoring 5. 




========================================
Message Received: Sep 15 2009, 05:13 PM
From: "mick"
To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [soccerdatauk] 5 goals in an English top division game

 

I saw it happen twice

Roger Davies for Derby County v Luton 29/3/75

Ian Rush for Liverpool v Luton 29\10\83

I do believe Tony Woodcock scored 5 for Arsenal on the same day as Ian Rush scored his five, it could have been against Aston Villa

----- Original Message -----

From: dan.seppings

To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:33 PM

Subject: [soccerdatauk] 5 goals in an English top division game


 

Hi All,

I'm a new member of this site and my first question is to ask if any of you have a full list of players who have scored 5 goals in a top division game in England.

I'd be grateful if you could help me if you have this list as I am finding it difficult to track down all the players who have achieved this feat.

Thanks,

Dan Seppings



#393 From: Terry Morley <terry@...>
Date: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:17 am
Subject: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
morley.terry
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Send Email Send Email
 
The one I recall being told about by my Dad was Charlton vs Huddersfield.
Charlton were losing 5.1 with about 20 minutes to go, went on to win 7.6 with Johnny Summers scoring 5. 




========================================
Message Received: Sep 15 2009, 05:13 PM
From: "mick"
To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [soccerdatauk] 5 goals in an English top division game

 

I saw it happen twice

Roger Davies for Derby County v Luton 29/3/75

Ian Rush for Liverpool v Luton 29\10\83

I do believe Tony Woodcock scored 5 for Arsenal on the same day as Ian Rush scored his five, it could have been against Aston Villa

----- Original Message -----

From: dan.seppings

To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:33 PM

Subject: [soccerdatauk] 5 goals in an English top division game


 

Hi All,

I'm a new member of this site and my first question is to ask if any of you have a full list of players who have scored 5 goals in a top division game in England.

I'd be grateful if you could help me if you have this list as I am finding it difficult to track down all the players who have achieved this feat.

Thanks,

Dan Seppings



#392 From: Ashley Hyne <hyne_oz@...>
Date: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
hyne_oz
Offline Offline
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The chaps who scored 5 from game 1 1888 - season's end 1899:
 
1. R. Jardine (5) Notts County v Burnley 27.10.89;
2. AF Higgins (5) Derby County v Aston Villa 28.12.89;
3. WH Hammond (5) Sheffield United v Bootle 26.11.92;
4. J Southworth (6) Everton v West Brom 30.12.93;
5. H Trainer (5) Leicester F v Rotherham 3.4.96;
6. F Hunt (5) Darwen v Walsall 26.12.96;
7. JD Ross (5) Burnley v Loughborough 28.3.1898;
8. Steve Bloomer (of course) (6) Derby County v Sheffield Wednesday 21.1.98;
9. R Pegg (5) Loughborough v Darwen 1.4.99;
 
The first League scorer of a penalty was ...
 
H Wilson Bolton Wanderers v Sunderland 19.9.92
 
Anyone got the list for 1899 - 1909?
Ashley Hyne

--- On Tue, 15/9/09, frompfj <frompfj@...> wrote:

From: frompfj <frompfj@...>
Subject: [soccerdatauk] Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
To: soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 15 September, 2009, 5:51 PM

 
A quick check shows that the following four players have scored 5 goals for Aston Villa in the top division:

Harry Hampton v Sheffield Wednesday 5.10.1912 (Score 10-0)

Harold Halse v Derby County 19.10.1912 (Score 5-1)

Len Capewell v Burnley 29.8.1925 (Score 10-0)

George Brown v Leicester City 2.1.1932 (Score 8-3)

I also saw a player score 5 goals in a game for the Villa when Gerry Hitchens scored 5 in an 11-1 victory over Charlton in 1959 - unfortunately we'd been relegated to Division 2 at the end of the previous season :-((



#391 From: "frompfj" <frompfj@...>
Date: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:51 pm
Subject: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
frompfj
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A quick check shows that  the following four players have scored 5 goals for
Aston Villa in the top division:

Harry Hampton  v  Sheffield Wednesday     5.10.1912 (Score 10-0)

Harold Halse  v   Derby County   19.10.1912 (Score 5-1)

Len Capewell  v  Burnley   29.8.1925  (Score 10-0)

George Brown  v  Leicester City   2.1.1932 (Score 8-3)

I also saw a player score 5 goals in a game for the Villa when Gerry Hitchens
scored 5 in an 11-1 victory over Charlton in 1959 - unfortunately we'd been
relegated to Division 2  at the end of the previous season :-((

#390 From: "frompfj" <frompfj@...>
Date: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
frompfj
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A quick check shows that  the following four players have scored 5 goals for
Aston Villa in the top division:

Harry Hampton  v  Sheffield Wednesday     5.10.1912 (Score 10-0)

Harold Halse  v   Derby County   19.10.1912 (Score 5-1)

Len Capewell  v  Burnley   29.8.1925  (Score 10-0)

George Brown  v  Leicester City   2.1.1932 (Score 8-3)

I also saw a player score 5 goals in a game for the Villa when Gerry Hitchens
scored 5 in an 11-1 victory over Charlton in 1959 - unfortunately we'd been
relegated to Division 2  at the end of the previous season :-((

#389 From: "frompfj" <frompfj@...>
Date: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
frompfj
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As a Villa supporter it pains me to point out that in 1935-36 Ted Drake scored
seven in a single match against the Villa at Villa Park on 14 December 1935.

Dixie Dean once scored all five in a 5-2 win over Manchester Utd (not sure of
the date).

#388 From: "mick" <m.macca@...>
Date: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: 5 goals in an English top division game
hattergonemaduk
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I saw it happen twice
Roger Davies for Derby County v Luton 29/3/75
 
Ian Rush for Liverpool v Luton 29\10\83
 
I do believe Tony Woodcock scored 5 for Arsenal on the same day as Ian Rush scored his five, it could have been against Aston Villa
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:33 PM
Subject: [soccerdatauk] 5 goals in an English top division game

 

Hi All,

I'm a new member of this site and my first question is to ask if any of you have a full list of players who have scored 5 goals in a top division game in England.

I'd be grateful if you could help me if you have this list as I am finding it difficult to track down all the players who have achieved this feat.

Thanks,

Dan Seppings


#387 From: "dan.seppings" <dan.seppings@...>
Date: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:33 pm
Subject: 5 goals in an English top division game
dan.seppings
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi All,

I'm a new member of this site and my first question is to ask if any of you have
a full list of players who have scored 5 goals in a top division game in
England.

I'd be grateful if you could help me if you have this list as I am finding it
difficult to track down all the players who have achieved this feat.

Thanks,

Dan Seppings

#386 From: "Ralph" <ralph@...>
Date: Tue Sep 1, 2009 5:06 pm
Subject: Re: New members - a note from Tony
la145qd
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Send Email Send Email
 
>Sorry to hear that spam merchants are such a problem.
>A couple of suggestions that might help deal with the problem.

You could also make it a moderated list, whereby the first couple of postings
are checked before they are released to the list to make sure that are
football-related, anything dodgy, and they are accidentally lost in the
electronic ether.

Ralph
Kiwiland

#385 From: Paul Crankshaw <paulc@...>
Date: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:45 pm
Subject: Re: 1950/1951 Festival of Britain game
paulcrankshaw
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The Guardian of 18/5/1951 has the following results under the heading
"Festival of Britain matches"

Barrow 3 Shamrock R 1, Ilford 2 Wageningen F C(Holland) 2, Millwall 2
RFC Anderlecht (Belgium) 1, Newport County 3 Eindhoven 0.

In The Guardian of 8/5/51 are the following results
Birmingham C 3 Airdrieonians 5, Darlington 0 Shelbourne 2, QPR 1
Schiedam VV 1, South Liverpool 5 Cork Athletic 1, Stockport County 3
Drumcondra 1, Tottenham Hotspur 0 FC Austria 1, Walsall 1 RC Haarlem 0,
Wrexham 2 Dundalk 0.

There were a whole load of FoB fixtures for 9/5/51 too many to type out
- I can send you a copy if you want. They include England v Argentina. I
don't see any results though

The same paper has 2 result for 9/5/51 and although not headed FOB
results, I would assume they were: Chelsea 5 Floriana (Malta) 1,
Lancashire Combination 3 NEC Nijmegen 3.

There were further matches in the 15th, 16th and 17th.

Paul




Ralph wrote:
> I've noticed a programme from the 1950/1951 Festival of Britain game between
> Barrow and Shamrock Rovers played on 17/05/1951 on the web,
> http://tinyurl.com/kk3foh
>
> As a Barrow supporter I haven't come across this game before, does anyone know
> the score, and was it part of a series of games played across the country to
> mark the occasion?
>
> Ralph
> Kiwiland
>
>

#384 From: "Ralph" <ralph@...>
Date: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:14 pm
Subject: 1950/1951 Festival of Britain game
la145qd
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I've noticed a programme from the 1950/1951 Festival of Britain game between
Barrow and Shamrock Rovers played on 17/05/1951 on the web,
http://tinyurl.com/kk3foh

As a Barrow supporter I haven't come across this game before, does anyone know
the score, and was it part of a series of games played across the country to
mark the occasion?

Ralph
Kiwiland

#383 From: "soccerdatauk" <soccer@...>
Date: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: Football 1863-1888 - an ongoing project
soccerdatauk
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To see the fledgling databases, you should be able to click on the "database"
label in the box on the left of the soccerdatauk home page (not the
soccerdata.com website, though I plan to add pages to the web site later to add
more details on the evolution of the laws of the game and the players involved).

The yahoo database limits me to 10 fields, which are currently set to season,
competition, date, home club, score, away club, score, ground, and notes,
leaving one spare.  The version on my computer has more fields of course,
including the player names.  However, there's a good deal of work still to do on
the names before it's ready to be published - by including club matches as well
as FA Cup games I'm hoping to iron out differences in spelling and other obvious
errors.

I'm interested to hear of the work you've done in collating Sheffield football. 
If you'd like to add your findings to the yahoo database that will be good; I
haven't tried a 'bulk input' yet, but it looks a simple matter to convert my
existing data to a comma delimited format, whence it can be sucked into the
yahoo database.  The big advantage to this approach is that anyone can add to
the database; I haven't got the technology to allow this to happen on
soccerdata.com.

There's an issue of 'copyright' and 'intellectual property' of course.  Speaking
for myself, I'll be pleased to see a 'fixtures, results and dates' database in
the public domain, even if the full database of scorers and line-ups is retained
for private use.  My data is "fairly" comprehensive for "association rules in
the London area to 1874" thanks to Bell's Life and some extracts from "Field". 
I have little on Sheffield-rules fixtures though imagine there was more activity
in the 1860s than in London.  Yes, we should state the rules adopted when known,
and someday I'll try to establish exactly what "Nottingham Rules" were! I'm
happy to make the tenth field "code followed".

My FA Cup data to 1888 is comprehensive, with Keith Richards and others kindly
been combing Field and Sportsman for more details.  However, I have done little
work on 'other games' in the period 1877 to 1888, largely because (as you will
appreciate) of the big upswing in the number of games played.  Certainly, by
1885 or so, we probably need to be in a "match by match" type of format for the
leading clubs.  In the upcoming weeks I'll post "what I've got" for this period
and perhaps others in the group will be happy to join in.

Regards, Tony




--- In soccerdatauk@yahoogroups.com, "bty958590" <i.nannestad@...> wrote:
>
> Tony
>
> What fields are you using already? One possibility would be to give details of
the type of association code played: London, Sheffield, Scottish or other (which
will usually be a local code). That will provide a better picture of the extent
of the Sheffield code and whether it was more popular than the London code. I
have details of games under Sheffield rules stretching from Birmingham in the
south to Middlesbrough in the north and across to Grimsby (but not on the other
side of the Pennines).
>
> Ian Nannestad
>

#382 From: "d.c.a. mulcahy" <dcm@...>
Date: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:29 pm
Subject: Re: New members - a note from Tony
dcmbph
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
soccerdatauk wrote:
>
>
> I am notified of new members, some of whom only join to circulate
> rubbish. I delete these people's details as soon as I can, and hope they
> do not cause you too much trouble.
>
> I had to close my last bulletin board when it got overwhelmed by these
> people - hopefully I can keep on top of it this time.
>
> Regards, Tony

Tony

Sorry to hear that spam merchants are such a problem.

A couple of suggestions that might help deal with the problem.

When you receive a request to join the group you could send back an
email requesting more information, along the following lines.

'What are your particular areas of interest within football
statistics"? (or some similar question). I suspect that someone who is
just joining to spam will not be able to provide a credible answer.

You could also use skill testing questions, like the following
examples, which bona fide applicants should be able to answer.

Who was the first team in the twentieth century to complete the double?

What was the significance of the 1953 cup final?

You will note that I have deliberately worded the questions a little
vaguely because I don't think a google search of 'double' or 'cup
final' will provide the answers.

However I would think that everyone on this list and most genuine
applicants would be able to respond with Tottenham Hotspur and Stanley
Matthews.

While these suggestions would create more work for you initially they
would reduce the work of having to delete these people and their emails.

regards

d.c.a. (declan) mulcahy

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