Wel I'm an old git, too, 61. Even so, it strikes me as very peculiar
that fans who want, above all else, attacking football, attractive
football, football they can enjoy, beautiful football, are somehow
suspect in the eyes of other fans who want, above all else, survival
and the financial security that goes with it. Something pretty
dreadful has happened to our game when fans who want their club to
play football that is enjoyable to watch are not only a distinct
minority but also viewed as either insincere or daft It's all very
sad.

By the way, I should have added that there are different levels
of "survival" that today's clubs are playing for. For some clubs,
it's avoiding relegation. For others, it's securing one of the top
places in the league so that they are eligible for the European
competitions and the money that brings into the coffers. In either
event, the consequence is a lot of negative football designed to
secure the draw, to avoid defeat at all costs.

Best,

Peter


--- In sixtiesandseventiessoccer@yahoogroups.com, bill laing
<billy318124@y...> wrote:
> Peter
> very well put ! im just a miserable old git with bad legs going on
about the good old days !
> i honestly think it WAS better in the sixties and seventies when
both teams went out to try and win.even with the added incentive of 3
points for a win teams are still playing for 0 0 draws. why not make
it NO points for a 0 0 ?
> results like 6 2 the other night have been commonplace for
united,home and away for 50 years.thats why so many people admire
them.even the idiots who claim to "hate" them,another modern
trend,seem obsessed with them.
> all the best
> bill
>
> Peter Young <petery@c...> wrote:
> Bill has a point, it seems to me, although he's coming from a
different place than most of today's fans, and I'm not referring to
his professional playing experience.
>
> At some point the end purpose of the game turned from glory--as in
Danny Blanchflower's name for the sport, the glory game--into making
money, which meant survival above all else for teams that might
conceivably be relegated. The game was originally supposed to be a
spectacle for the entertainment of fans (and, not incidentally, the
enjoyment of the players); it's turned into something else at most
clubs. The tail truly began to wag the dog when teams began to play
merely for the sake of money, for survival, rather than to entertain,
to put on a display of the beautiful game.
>
> Most fans today go along with the survival above all else ethic..
Nick Hornby, for example, wrote in Fever Pitch that he did not care
how Arsenal played as long as they got results. But some fans don't
agree with that, and Bill apparently is one of those. He has a
different perspective, that's all, and it's not a matter of one
viewpoint being right and the other wrong. No doubt some would say
he is not a true fan of his club if he'd rather see them playing
attractive, attacking football and get relegated than see them adopt
an ugly, negative game designed to secure league position. But
that's only becaue their perspective is different.
>
> I'm sure we'd all like to see our clubs do well in the league AND
play attractive, attacking football. Too bad not many do both.
>
> Best to all,
>
> Peter
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: bill laing
> To: sixtiesandseventiessoccer@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [Sixties and Seventies Soccer] Re: What's happening
here?
>
>
> if united ever go down 50,000 will still turn up.just like they
did when they were relegated to div 2 thirty years ago
>
> Peter <sahidab2000@y...> wrote:So you'd rather see Man Utd
scoring a few goals in the 2nd Division;
> Getting by on say, crowds of 20,000;
> Rather than being in the Premiership... and having a mundane time
of
> it.
> Yeah, course you would.
>
> --- In sixtiesandseventiessoccer@yahoogroups.com, bill laing
> <billy318124@y...> wrote:
> > id rather see my team in a league where they can attack and try
and
> score goals...................derby need to drop again maybe ?
> >
> > golden_rams_aust <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:If your side
was
> relegated, you may have a different point of view.
> >
> > The money in the Premier League is such that relegation becomes
> > catastrophic for a club in terms of the revenue being
attained.
> Ask
> > Coventry, Derby (I'm one) or Forest fans whether they would
have
> > fancied a couple more 1-0 wins when they went down. These
sides,
> who
> > have spent long periods in the top flight, can no longer afford
to
> > keep the players they had in the top division and don't look
like
> > getting back up. Being a "big" club is no insulation.
> >
> > So when Spurs are grinding out points but staying in the top
half
> of
> > the table, they are doing their fans a service. With a new
> manager,
> > they need to find their feet as a combination before turning on
any
> > fireworks. And any defender they have now would have to be
better
> > than Justin Edinburgh.
> >
> >
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