Don't know if you have been following this but the forecast for Adin now

has a 10% chance of showers (down from 40% yesterday).  The temperatures

and winds look pretty ideal at this point but it changes daily.



	 Ken

I have found that eating calcium carbonate tablets (Tums, etc.)

occasionally on long rides, especially when it's hot, makes me feel

better. It both settles the stomach and prevents cramps. I did not

know, however, that the rate of calcium loss due to perspiration could

be as high as claimed by the article (hundreds mg/hour).



max



On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Bruce Berg<bberg@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> An interesting New York Times article on bone density, or the loss of it, in

> competitive cyclists.  But it isn’t clear how much it applies to us long

> distance recreational riders.  It probably does say that drinking milk or

> other calcium rich beverages while on our brevets is probably a very good

> idea and suggests that we might be better off if we get some other form of

> exercise on a regular basis, be it weight lifting, running, hiking, etc, but

> probably not swimming.

>

> Bruce

>

>

>

> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/is-bicycling-bad-for-your-bones/?hp

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Looking at the amount of elemental calcium in Tums, it is about 200 mg for

standard strength, so you would need about one tablet per hour according to the

article.



Another thing to consider is that if you are taking electrolytes (my endurox

bottle does not list calcium), it is theoretically possible that you can

displace the levels of available calcium in your system because of the

replacement of potassium and other cations, and lack of calcium replacement. 

I'm not a biochemist though, so my statement is unfounded except for what I

remember from chemistry classes.







----- Original Message ----

From: Massimiliano Poletto <sfrandon@...>

To: Bruce Berg <bberg@...>

Cc: sfrandon@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 3:34:25 PM

Subject: Re: [sfrandon] FW: [GPC] Is cycling bad for your health?



I have found that eating calcium carbonate tablets (Tums, etc.)

occasionally on long rides, especially when it's hot, makes me feel

better. It both settles the stomach and prevents cramps. I did not

know, however, that the rate of calcium loss due to perspiration could

be as high as claimed by the article (hundreds mg/hour).



max



On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Bruce Berg<bberg@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> An interesting New York Times article on bone density, or the loss of it, in

> competitive cyclists.  But it isn’t clear how much it applies to us long

> distance recreational riders.  It probably does say that drinking milk or

> other calcium rich beverages while on our brevets is probably a very good

> idea and suggests that we might be better off if we get some other form of

> exercise on a regular basis, be it weight lifting, running, hiking, etc, but

> probably not swimming.

>

> Bruce

>

>

>

> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/is-bicycling-bad-for-your-bones/?hp

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>





------------------------------------



sfrandon :: San Francisco Randonneurs

http://sfrandonneurs.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

Fred,



Apologies. I am not sure I understand this:



"Another thing to consider is that if you are taking electrolytes (my

endurox bottle does not list calcium), it is theoretically possible

that you can displace the levels of available calcium in your system

because of the replacement of potassium and other cations, and lack of

calcium replacement."



Can you elaborate (and perhaps simplify this for a dolt? (me))



rob



On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Fred Moyer<phredwolf@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Looking at the amount of elemental calcium in Tums, it is about 200 mg for

> standard strength, so you would need about one tablet per hour according to

> the article.

>

> Another thing to consider is that if you are taking electrolytes (my endurox

> bottle does not list calcium), it is theoretically possible that you can

> displace the levels of available calcium in your system because of the

> replacement of potassium and other cations, and lack of calcium replacement.

> I'm not a biochemist though, so my statement is unfounded except for what I

> remember from chemistry classes.

>

> ----- Original Message ----

> From: Massimiliano Poletto <sfrandon@...>

> To: Bruce Berg <bberg@...>

> Cc: sfrandon@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 3:34:25 PM

> Subject: Re: [sfrandon] FW: [GPC] Is cycling bad for your health?

>

> I have found that eating calcium carbonate tablets (Tums, etc.)

> occasionally on long rides, especially when it's hot, makes me feel

> better. It both settles the stomach and prevents cramps. I did not

> know, however, that the rate of calcium loss due to perspiration could

> be as high as claimed by the article (hundreds mg/hour).

>

> max

>

> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Bruce Berg<bberg@...> wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> An interesting New York Times article on bone density, or the loss of it,

>> in

>> competitive cyclists. But it isn’t clear how much it applies to us long

>> distance recreational riders. It probably does say that drinking milk or

>> other calcium rich beverages while on our brevets is probably a very good

>> idea and suggests that we might be better off if we get some other form of

>> exercise on a regular basis, be it weight lifting, running, hiking, etc,

>> but

>> probably not swimming.

>>

>> Bruce

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/is-bicycling-bad-for-your-bones/?hp

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> sfrandon :: San Francisco Randonneurs

> http://sfrandonneurs.org

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

Rob,



Bear in mind that I'm regurgitating what I know from chemistry classes, so don't

put any real stock in it at all, I am not an expert or even amateur in this

area.



But I do remember that an over abundance of certain cations (positively charged

ions such as sodium K+) will force other cations into or out of (out of I think

in the case of an abundance) solution.



What this discussion made me think about a possibility, was that if you are

taking in a lot of potassium and sodium through electrolytes, and you aren't

replacing calcium, you can have a situation where you have a lot more potassium

(K+) and sodium (Na+) ions than calcium (Ca2+).  This could cause calcium that

is not into solution (in bones or tissue perhaps) to come into solution.  The

opposite may be true also - lack of electrolytes may cause calcium that is not

into solution to be drawn from bones into solution balance the solution.  What

really happens in the body as opposed to a test tube I don't know enough to say.



And when I looked at my endurox pills they didn't have a calcium level listed

(looking again they had calcium phosphate as an ingredient, so perhaps there is

a small amount).  However, my Gu packets have 2% of DV for calcium, which is

about 20 milligrams.



Here' s a quick comparison:



Gu (1 packet, 1 serving)

50mg Na+ (sodium)

35mg K+ (potassium)

20mg (calculated from 2% DV) Ca2+ (calcium)



Endurox (1 capsule, 1/2 serving)



15mg Mg2+ (magnesium)

7.5mg Zn2+ (zinc)

75mg Na+ (sodium)

10mg K+ (potassium)

?mg Ca2+ (calcium, some provided in the form of dicalcium phosphate)



Tums Regular Strength (1 serving, http://www.tums.com/faq_calcium.aspx)

200mg Ca2+ (calcium)



Draw from these numbers what you will.  I had never used an Endorox pill until a

month ago, been using Gu for 10 years.  Never tried Tums but my Aunt who

completed dozens of brevets recommended it.  I also relied on fruit and gatorade

for electrolytes on long rides so I don't know that much in this area than what

I've done.







----- Original Message ----

From: Rob Hawks <rob.hawks@...>

To: Fred Moyer <phredwolf@...>

Cc: Massimiliano Poletto <sfrandon@...>; Bruce Berg

<bberg@...>; sfrandon@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 5:26:21 PM

Subject: Re: [sfrandon] FW: [GPC] Is cycling bad for your health?



Fred,



Apologies. I am not sure I understand this:



"Another thing to consider is that if you are taking electrolytes (my

endurox bottle does not list calcium), it is theoretically possible

that you can displace the levels of available calcium in your system

because of the replacement of potassium and other cations, and lack of

calcium replacement."



Can you elaborate (and perhaps simplify this for a dolt? (me))



rob



On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Fred Moyer<phredwolf@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Looking at the amount of elemental calcium in Tums, it is about 200 mg for

> standard strength, so you would need about one tablet per hour according to

> the article.

>

> Another thing to consider is that if you are taking electrolytes (my endurox

> bottle does not list calcium), it is theoretically possible that you can

> displace the levels of available calcium in your system because of the

> replacement of potassium and other cations, and lack of calcium replacement.

> I'm not a biochemist though, so my statement is unfounded except for what I

> remember from chemistry classes.

>

> ----- Original Message ----

> From: Massimiliano Poletto <sfrandon@...>

> To: Bruce Berg <bberg@...>

> Cc: sfrandon@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 3:34:25 PM

> Subject: Re: [sfrandon] FW: [GPC] Is cycling bad for your health?

>

> I have found that eating calcium carbonate tablets (Tums, etc.)

> occasionally on long rides, especially when it's hot, makes me feel

> better. It both settles the stomach and prevents cramps. I did not

> know, however, that the rate of calcium loss due to perspiration could

> be as high as claimed by the article (hundreds mg/hour).

>

> max

>

> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Bruce Berg<bberg@...> wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> An interesting New York Times article on bone density, or the loss of it,

>> in

>> competitive cyclists. But it isn’t clear how much it applies to us long

>> distance recreational riders. It probably does say that drinking milk or

>> other calcium rich beverages while on our brevets is probably a very good

>> idea and suggests that we might be better off if we get some other form of

>> exercise on a regular basis, be it weight lifting, running, hiking, etc,

>> but

>> probably not swimming.

>>

>> Bruce

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/is-bicycling-bad-for-your-bones/?hp

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> sfrandon :: San Francisco Randonneurs

> http://sfrandonneurs.org

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

Rob,



Sorry for the additional reply but I was looking around and found this:



http://www.wvmtr.org/electrolyte_replacement.htm



I'm sure there's a lot of people here who know a lot more about this than I do,

I consider myself to have mostly been lucky with my replenishment choices rather

than knowing a lot about it.



As a neophyte brevet rider I'd love any other references like the one above to

educate myself.







----- Original Message ----

From: Rob Hawks <rob.hawks@...>

To: Fred Moyer <phredwolf@...>

Cc: Massimiliano Poletto <sfrandon@...>; Bruce Berg

<bberg@...>; sfrandon@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 5:26:21 PM

Subject: Re: [sfrandon] FW: [GPC] Is cycling bad for your health?



Fred,



Apologies. I am not sure I understand this:



"Another thing to consider is that if you are taking electrolytes (my

endurox bottle does not list calcium), it is theoretically possible

that you can displace the levels of available calcium in your system

because of the replacement of potassium and other cations, and lack of

calcium replacement."



Can you elaborate (and perhaps simplify this for a dolt? (me))



rob



On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Fred Moyer<phredwolf@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Looking at the amount of elemental calcium in Tums, it is about 200 mg for

> standard strength, so you would need about one tablet per hour according to

> the article.

>

> Another thing to consider is that if you are taking electrolytes (my endurox

> bottle does not list calcium), it is theoretically possible that you can

> displace the levels of available calcium in your system because of the

> replacement of potassium and other cations, and lack of calcium replacement.

> I'm not a biochemist though, so my statement is unfounded except for what I

> remember from chemistry classes.

>

> ----- Original Message ----

> From: Massimiliano Poletto <sfrandon@...>

> To: Bruce Berg <bberg@...>

> Cc: sfrandon@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 3:34:25 PM

> Subject: Re: [sfrandon] FW: [GPC] Is cycling bad for your health?

>

> I have found that eating calcium carbonate tablets (Tums, etc.)

> occasionally on long rides, especially when it's hot, makes me feel

> better. It both settles the stomach and prevents cramps. I did not

> know, however, that the rate of calcium loss due to perspiration could

> be as high as claimed by the article (hundreds mg/hour).

>

> max

>

> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Bruce Berg<bberg@...> wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> An interesting New York Times article on bone density, or the loss of it,

>> in

>> competitive cyclists. But it isn’t clear how much it applies to us long

>> distance recreational riders. It probably does say that drinking milk or

>> other calcium rich beverages while on our brevets is probably a very good

>> idea and suggests that we might be better off if we get some other form of

>> exercise on a regular basis, be it weight lifting, running, hiking, etc,

>> but

>> probably not swimming.

>>

>> Bruce

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/is-bicycling-bad-for-your-bones/?hp

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> sfrandon :: San Francisco Randonneurs

> http://sfrandonneurs.org

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>