Hey All,

 

hopefully going to clarify my wordings and that, but it could all go wrong...

 

On the whole 'a player made a call against himself or a team-mate' I agree that there are occasions when calling a team mate out, et cetera, would be bad spirit. I know that if I landed in, and my team mate called me out, I'd be all 'dude, I was in!  Acknowledge my better perspective!'.

 

I didn't think of any examples like this at the time, and think its cool that someone pointed it out, so if we use a similar spirit system, we'll re-word it so that its more accurate.

 

As for the after game talk, I think that's part of the game, but maybe to less of a degree. I guess that's up to personal opinion.

 

So to finish, I'm glad our different system kicked off a debate and stuff, I've learnt some new things, and hopefully spirit will continue to be prevelant (as well as amazing) in the South East

 

 

tequila

 

 

p.s. This is a cool definition...

 

I think spirit is about playing to the best
of your ability, being humble, being congratulatory rather than bitter when you've just
been skyed / D'd, being 100% honest and trusting that the other team will be the same.


 

On 11/30/06, Ben Munday <b.munday@...> wrote:

My comment about fouls was about fouls, not out calls etc. What I was getting at is that
the only way the "governed by spirit" thing can work is if everyone assumes that everyone
else will also go along with it. If my teammate get's accused of or is stripped of the disk it
isn't my place to say whether it was a strip or not, i should assume that the two people
involved will be honest and the game continues. Obviously in the event of me seeing a
teamate land out then i would speak up if there was dispute. They are two very different
things.

Ben

--- In seuniultimate@yahoogroups.com, <li51jp@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Cat and SE
>
> first off, to re-iterate, the spirit and the emphasis on the fact that we should be
considering spirit more was excellent at UMIR.
>
> In regards to the BULA guidelines, I was trying to make the argument that although the
actual topics in the guidelines (as you point out, punctuality) are not really related to spirit,
I thought it was easier to gauge using a -+ system. Might just be me being a retard
though.
>
> Maybe a system where, using the example of calling your own line calls (or your
teamates), if you called your own line calls consistently fairly you get a point. If it wasn't
consistent you don't get a point, if there was a trend of calling the line calls, perhaps
unfairly, in favour of your team meant you lost a point. If, however, there was no
memorable occurance or problem then the team should be given a point. I believe Spirit is
also supposed to aid the smooth running of a game and tournament (although it's
obviously not solely about that) and so at some point you should just shut up and get on
with the game (the rules say 30sec...)
>
> In regards to calling your own teamates out, I believe it's the entire point of having
spirit. If you see a teamate land out and you don't say anything, it's bad spirit. The rules
state that the person with the best view should make the call and, very often, this isn't the
person catching the disc. The person catching the disc is concentrating on his cut, the
thrower, the disc's flight whereas the marker who has just been skinned and is now
following from a distance concentrates on the catchers feet. That's how I've taught my
freshers to mark anway. I believe that players who are chasing the marker or players who
are near the catcher have a better view of whether they land out than the actual catcher.
controversial? probably.
>
> Why, if you call yourself out, after having caught a disc, it's good spirit but if you see
someone else on your teamland out it has nothing to do with spirit?
>
> Also, fouls should not be considered in the same category as line calls/travels and the
like. Those are referred to as 'violations' in the rules and they state that anyone on the
field may call them. Fouls on the other hand, due to their personal nature need to be
called by the fouled party and sometimes by the foul-er. No-one else may call the foul.
That is how I interpretted the rules, please correct me if i'm wrong (no doubt you all will).
A problem I have had with my freshers were the fact that the expected me (as their
captain) to make foul calls on their behalf. Does anyone have any idea how to rectify this?
>
> After game chats are not 'un-important to spirit'. I think they are a very important part
to the spirit of the game (particularly in UniUltimate) .It's so disappointing when we play
teams at tournaments that say 'well, we haven't really got a call. have you got 2 you'd like
to do?'. I think your spirit vote should be punished if you don't try and strengthen bonds
between teams (again particularly at a Uni level) by playing stupid games and by just
generally getting to know the other players. as I say, breaks the ice, improves connections.
I just think that's a thing that should be rewarded even if it's only a couple of 'spirit
points'.
>
> As a captain I try and think out a speech and make sure there are no double meanings
to what I'm saying (something that really annoys me in speeches) and help the opposition
leave with a good feeling about the team. I think that's spirited and should be rewarded. I
think the reward, however, should be small in reference to the 'out of 10' spirit vote.
> If the game had no calls, was hard fought and honest, then surely we should be looking
for a number greater than 10 to give the opposition in the spirit table? I suggest
something mental like 31...
>
> Yes, getting wasted - although immensly funny - should have no bearing on spirit in my
opinion.
>
> And thats what all this mammoth email has been. my opinion, but hopefully some of it
might have been someone elses too.
>
> pugh
> surrey31
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: seuniultimate@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Cat Hamilton
> Sent: Thu 30/11/2006 10:12
> To: seuniultimate@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [seuniultimate] Re: Spirit at UMIR
>
>
> SOTG is such a contentious issue and I don't think there will ever be a system that
everyone likes. What we tried to do for UMIR was find a good mix of everything.
> To the point;
> first of all...I'm not sure how helpful examples are within the spirit score
classifications...especially the point that reads "e.g. A player made a call against himself or
> a teammate"...these examples are misleading and unnecessary
> first off the scoring system was purely down to interpretation by the teams. What Tq
and I wanted to do was provide *Guidelines* for what *might* represent good/bad spirit.
They were never (and this was emphasised at the Captain's meeting) supposed to be 'if the
team did x,y,z they should get 9 points etc' because every person has a different
interpretation of what good/bad spirit is (as we're seeing in these discussions) so the
comment that such examples as misleading and unnecessary I feel is completely
unfounded, and in the context to SOTG and UMIR absolutely necessary, especially for
newer teams who don't have the experience to use in judging SOTG..
>
> To Pugh's comments about a -+ scoring system this was something we looked into and
the BULA provide a system just like it but we felt that the system is even worse for SOTG.
You cannot define every situation that deserves a + or - and you can't define them in a
way that everyone will agree one. For example in the BULA system you get a point for
turning up to your game on time! To me that's not good spirit, it's just common courtesy.
This is why we tried to get teams to use there on judgement while also providing a basis
with which to compare if they weren't sure.
>
> I agree that the guidelines could be improved, but without these discussions it is
difficult to know what areas need to be changed. The point about the differences between
scores being 'woolly' I agree with too but it is so hard to make clear distinctions between
say a 9 and a 10, and I guess that is why we assumed must teams would already have a
feel for the score they wanted to give and would use the guidelines to maybe decide
between 2 scores. As for the scorecards there are definitely ways these can be improved
and since they were the first outing at UMIR I have taken everyone feedback on board to
try and improve them.
>
> To the point;
> I agree about calling a foul on your own teammate! I think that suggests bad spirit in
that you don't have confidence in the player involved
> I don't think I've ever heard anyone think that calling something on your team mates is
bad spirited. Sometimes it is difficult to know what happened in a certain situation and
you need the perspective of other players. If a teammate decides that in fact their player
was in the wrong then this ensures the right call is made and the game progresses fairly.
It is not about a lack of confidence in a player but a case of who had the best perspective.
>
> I realise I've gone on a bit here but 1 last point to clarify is that yes Pugh the scores were
averaged and in the case of UMIR the teams which played a lot of games had the same or
lower scores than those that played the minimum.
>
> Cheers
> Cat
> x-Mohawk
>