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Definitions for omote and ura   Message List  
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Re: [seattleschoolofaikido] Definitions for omote and ura

I think that's a good starting point, but it seems a bit over-simplified to me, particularly if one takes the diagram too absolutely.  I think the important thing about understanding those terms is understanding what they describe.  Irimi and tenkan (or more correctly irimi-tenkan) describe the movements of nage, while ura/omote describe the relationship in space between uke and nage.  This article also leaves out the uchi/soto descriptions that seem to have become more popular in the Aikikai's descriptions of techniques.  Generally uchi (inside) is interchangeable with Omote (front) while soto (outside) can be substituted with ura (behind).  They describe basically the same thing.  The simplest way I've found to explain these concepts is this:
omote/uchi: if you (nage) were to turn to face uke you would be face to face. Visualize the classic shomenuchi ikkyo.
soto/ura: if you (nage) turned to face uke, you would be looking at their back. Visualize the middle of irimi nage.
 
Personally I don't really like the irimi/tenkan descriptors *for techniques* because nearly every technique in Aikido contains aspects of irmi and tenkan.  Indeed in the hand illustrated Budo Renshu (the closest thing we have to a training manual written by OSensei) tenkan is never used independently, but rather is always teamed with irimi.  Movements in that text are described as irimi or irimi-tenkan.  I find that irimi and irimi-tenkan are better used to describe specific events within techniques, but I realize that many schools use these terms to describe specific versions/variations of waza. 
 
As an example, let's look at katatedori (gyaku-te/gyaku-hanmi) shihonage, left foot forward for nage.
-Omote version:
    -Nage enters irimi, sliding in front of uke.  This puts them in the omote/uchi position because nage is directly in front of uke.
    -Nage then turns to the right to finish shihonage (I'm focusing on the gross movements and footwork here rather than the arm mechanics, hopefully this is a familiar version, there's lots out there).
 
-Ura version:
    -Nage enters irimi-tenkan, stepping behind uke's leading foot and pivoting so that nage is roughly back to back with uke.  Since you are behind uke, this is the ura/soto version of the technique. 
    -Nage then continues the tenkan begun with the initial irimi-tenkan to finish shihonage.
 
Hope that helps in some way, if I'm using terms differently than most people do at SSoA, please feel free to disregard, I'd hate to add confusion to what's already a confusing concept! 
 
-Chris the sword nerd.
 
PS, if you really want to drive yourself mad, try reasoning out the various versions of kaitennage and what makes them uchi/soto/ura/omote/irimi/tenkan..  :S
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: johnsw1953
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:44 PM
Subject: [seattleschoolofaikido] Definitions for omote and ura

I have struggled for a very long time to get an understanding of the
meaning of omote and ura.

I recently came across a definition on a web site that I wanted to
share with everyone. This is the first time I begin to understand
their meanings, so here is the URL and let me know what you think.

http://www.budodojo.com/MovementsOfAikido.htm



Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:25 pm

cmoses
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Message #287 of 1242 |
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I have struggled for a very long time to get an understanding of the meaning of omote and ura. I recently came across a definition on a web site that I wanted...
johnsw1953
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Oct 20, 2006
4:50 am

I think that's a good starting point, but it seems a bit over-simplified to me, particularly if one takes the diagram too absolutely. I think the important...
Chris Moses
cmoses
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Oct 20, 2006
4:29 pm

I gave this article two visits and was even more confused the second time. IMHO, he¹s overdue for a vacation. First, my understanding of omote & ura is that...
Allan Kaplan
kaplanam1
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Oct 20, 2006
5:27 pm

Wow, just two little words, and one person thinks it is "a bit over-simplified" (see Chris Moses' post) and Allan Kaplan feels that it is "overly complex...
johnsw1953
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Oct 21, 2006
12:18 am

I’ll enter the fray… Personally, I’m more interested in understanding how the centers are connected then how omote (front) or ura (rear) are related to...
John Peng
johnpengmd
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Oct 21, 2006
6:09 am
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