You need good relievers.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 6:54 PM, smolessmooman <smolessmoo@...> wrote:

> I have been reading various web sites that have scoreshhet suggestions.
> Some say closer not needed, others say it's a necessity.
> Question: Do you think we need a closer or not in scoresheet, why?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> List owners:  brian@..., grum@...,
> phfinkelstein@...
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
"From the founding of the Republic to 1929, spending by governments at all
levels, federal, state, and local, never exceeded 12 percent of the national
income except in time of major war, and two-thirds of that was state and
local spending.  Federal spending typically amounted to 3 percent or less of
the national income.  Since 1933 government spending has never been less
than 20 percent of national income and is now over 40 percent, and
two-thirds of that is spending by the federal government." From "Free to
Choose", Milton Friedman


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alright, good input. Here were my thoughts on some guys:

1. Salty - I still haven't given up on him, and I excuse some of his woes in
2009 to his medical condition.  If he's not fully recovered (and I can't tell
from reading up on "thoracic outlet syndrome" if it's even possible to fully
recover), he's a clear cut.

2. Everth Cabrera - why so little love here?  Is the assumption that he'll just
keep putting up bad fielding stats, or do people expect some sort of huge
decline in batting stats?  He was 7th among NL shortstops in RC/G in 2009.

3. Carlos Ruiz - I thought he was a clear cut until someone suggested him as a
"sleeper" fantasy pick for 2010 in a roundtable discussion I participated in
back in September (http://fantasyphenoms.com/baseball.php?id=1202).  Now, I'm
not sure what to think... he was the 4th-best RC/G catcher in the NL in 2009,
and that with a .264 BABIP.  The IBB's he gets batting 8th in real life help his
OBP for Scoresheet purposes. Is he dissed due to his bad throwing arm?

4. Seth Smith - don't people think that he'll get full-time duty in 2010?  Is
there a fear he won't hit for some reason?  My guess is Hawpe gets traded, but
who knows?

Not trying to debate here, just trying to get clarity.  Thanks for feedback!

Rob :)



________________________________
From: beanecounters <beanecounters@...>
To: scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 11:24:53 AM
Subject: ## Re: Rebuilding keeper advice request


I generally agree with Garth, but I'm a little less inclined to give up on Chris
Young.

--- In scoresheet-talk@ yahoogroups. com, "Garth Hewitt" <garthhewitt@ ...>
wrote:
>
> I see only three definate keepers, trade all the slots you can.
>
> Definates:  Votto, CarGo, Ethier
>
> Marginal or questionable:
> Salty -- worth holding to see.  He's a crossover but you don't have a problem
with that.
>
> Ruiz -- a decent catcher but will never help this team to a championship.  You
might get a lower pick for him.
>
> Cantu -- depends in part on his fielding rating.
>
> Cabrera -- there's little upside.  He's a marginal keeper but not a guy who
starts making a bad team good.
>
> Seth Smith -- as good as he was this year, he's a drop unless the Rockies
trade Hawpe and open a spot for Smith.  I expect CarGo and Fowler will play
everyday, as will Hawpe if they keep him.
>
> Dukes -- I know exactly what to expect from Dukes, and you can read it in my
new book available for $49.99.   or not.  Like Salty, it's its better to keep
Dukes and see if he matures than keep someone with no upside.
>
> The rest are cuts.  Chris Young is at an age where we'd expect his power to
return, but is OBP is unlikely to become acceptable.
>
> I'd keep Detwiler on this team. He throws plenty hard enough, can change speed
and has good stuff.  Established teams might not have room for him, but this one
does.
>
> There is no reason to keep RJ.
>
>
>
> --- In scoresheet-talk@ yahoogroups. com, Robert McQuown <robmcquown@ > wrote:
> >
> > Hi all -
> >
> > I took over a "project" NL team in a longstanding league midway through
2009, and the potential MLB keeper list is pretty thin for 2010
(http://www.scoreshe et.com/FOR_ WWW/P_NL300. htm team 3).  I'd appreciate
inputs:
> >
> > C: Salty, Ruiz
> > 1b: Votto
> > 2b: Infante
> > 3b: Cantu
> > ss: Everth Cabrera
> > of: Carlos Gonzalez, Ethier, Seth Smith, Chris Young, Elijah Dukes
> > sp: Maholm, Detwiler, RJ
> > rp: Lidge, Medlen
> >
> > I have 10 good minor-leaguers, which will eat up my picks all the way to #24
(due to trades) if I keep them all (worst 3 are Lawrie, Vitters, and Derek
Norris probably).
> >
> > I've traded away one keeper slot already and have extra picks at: 15, 25,
30, 31, 35, 35.
> >
> > So, first off, I've been sort of surprised by the Detwiler "love" shown on
this forum.  I had been figuring that without much velocity, and a 4..82 xFIP,
he was an easy cut.  But I'm reconsidering, since obviously I'm in dire need of
pitching. :(
> >
> > I have 16 names up above... my initial thoughts are that Lidge, Medlen, and
RJ are the easiest cuts, despite the paucity of pitching.  The next group of
potential cuts would all probably be easy for most teams (and so I'm trying to
trade away more keeper slots!) seem to be: Dukes, Young, Maholm, Detwiler,
Infante, Ruiz, and probably Cantu.
> >
> > Thanks for any thoughts, such as why I should keep certain guys, and/or how
many of them are cuttable if I can trade away the keeper slots, etc.  I also
have Oliver Perez and Shairon Martis and Peter Moylan, but figured they were all
obvious cuts.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Rob :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i think you need a closer, you just don't need to protect them, unless you have
a great one.

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: smolessmooman
   To: scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:54 PM
   Subject: ## Closer, to be or not to be.



   I have been reading various web sites that have scoreshhet suggestions. Some
say closer not needed, others say it's a necessity.
   Question: Do you think we need a closer or not in scoresheet, why?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been reading various web sites that have scoreshhet suggestions. Some say
closer not needed, others say it's a necessity.
Question: Do you think we need a closer or not in scoresheet, why?

Hi!
   We have several orphan teams in US BL Roaring 20. Several managers on this
list are familier with this league.  Good league with some great managers. The
open teams are 1, 3, 5, 11 and 14. We will hold a dispersal draft. The league is
a soft 10/4. We have a Spring e-mail draft and 4 supp rds. This is a very
competitive league. Bring your A-game.

Web site:  http://www.scoresheet.com/FOR_WWW/BL_Roaring_Twenty.htm

E-mail me if any questions or interested.
Tom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Morgan is not young.  Dukes is not a CF.  One of Fowler and CarGo isn't a CF
either.

McCutchen, Rasmus, Maybin, CarGo, Fowler, and Schafer are keepers, and should be
traded for a high pick or protect slot if you have a stacked team and don't have
space.  Two of these guys will become stars and two will flop, and I haven't a
clue which.

Dukes and Morgan could be kept, but are a clear cut below.

I don't think anyone expects Stubbs to hit at the MLB level.  His glove is
supposed to be fantastic, so the total package may play, but Endy Chavez -- IMO
a good comp in value though perhaps not in shape of offensive production --
didn't get a 2.25 range and Stubbs won't either.  To me he's the clear #9.

--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "beanecounters" <beanecounters@...>
wrote:
>
> IMO, definite keepers include: McCutchen, Rasmus, Maybin, CarGo,
> Fowler, in that order.
>
> Marginal keepers include: Morgan, Dukes, Stubbs, and Schafer.
>
> None are obvious cuts.
>
> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, David Gordon <deg23deg@> wrote:
> >
> > Lots of young NL CFs out there this year - what is everyone's
> > opinion on how these guys might rank in terms of keeper value:
> >
> > Maybin
> > N Morgan
> > Stubbs
> > Fowler
> > McCutchen
> > Schafer
> > Rasmus
> > CarGo
> > Dukes
> >
> > A couple of those guys won't be in CF this year (and Schafer
> > may start in AAA), but all qualify - obviously, there's some
> > difference in ceilings between some of them, too... Are any
> > of them obvious cuts? marginally keepable? Who are the
> > definite keepers on a championship caliber club? etc...
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
>

I "definately" need a copy of this book.  How do we order?  Do you take Paypal.


--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hewitt" <garthhewitt@...> wrote:
>
> I see only three definate keepers, trade all the slots you can.
>
> Definates:  Votto, CarGo, Ethier
>

> Dukes -- I know exactly what to expect from Dukes, and you can read it in my
new book available for $49.99.

IMO, definite keepers include: McCutchen, Rasmus, Maybin, CarGo, Fowler, in that
order.

Marginal keepers include: Morgan, Dukes, Stubbs, and Schafer.

None are obvious cuts.

--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, David Gordon <deg23deg@...> wrote:
>
> Lots of young NL CFs out there this year - what is everyone's opinion
> on how these guys might rank in terms of keeper value:
>
> Maybin
> N Morgan
> Stubbs
> Fowler
> McCutchen
> Schafer
> Rasmus
> CarGo
> Dukes
>
> A couple of those guys won't be in CF this year (and Schafer may start
> in AAA), but all qualify - obviously, there's some difference in
> ceilings between some of them, too... Are any of them obvious cuts?
> marginally keepable? Who are the definite keepers on a championship
> caliber club? etc...
>
> Thank you!
>

I generally agree with Garth, but I'm a little less inclined to give up on Chris
Young.

--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Garth Hewitt" <garthhewitt@...> wrote:
>
> I see only three definate keepers, trade all the slots you can.
>
> Definates:  Votto, CarGo, Ethier
>
> Marginal or questionable:
> Salty -- worth holding to see.  He's a crossover but you don't have a problem
with that.
>
> Ruiz -- a decent catcher but will never help this team to a championship.  You
might get a lower pick for him.
>
> Cantu -- depends in part on his fielding rating.
>
> Cabrera -- there's little upside.  He's a marginal keeper but not a guy who
starts making a bad team good.
>
> Seth Smith -- as good as he was this year, he's a drop unless the Rockies
trade Hawpe and open a spot for Smith.  I expect CarGo and Fowler will play
everyday, as will Hawpe if they keep him.
>
> Dukes -- I know exactly what to expect from Dukes, and you can read it in my
new book available for $49.99.   or not.  Like Salty, it's its better to keep
Dukes and see if he matures than keep someone with no upside.
>
> The rest are cuts.  Chris Young is at an age where we'd expect his power to
return, but is OBP is unlikely to become acceptable.
>
> I'd keep Detwiler on this team. He throws plenty hard enough, can change speed
and has good stuff.  Established teams might not have room for him, but this one
does.
>
> There is no reason to keep RJ.
>
>
>
> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Robert McQuown <robmcquown@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all -
> >
> > I took over a "project" NL team in a longstanding league midway through
2009, and the potential MLB keeper list is pretty thin for 2010
(http://www.scoresheet.com/FOR_WWW/P_NL300.htm team 3).  I'd appreciate inputs:
> >
> > C: Salty, Ruiz
> > 1b: Votto
> > 2b: Infante
> > 3b: Cantu
> > ss: Everth Cabrera
> > of: Carlos Gonzalez, Ethier, Seth Smith, Chris Young, Elijah Dukes
> > sp: Maholm, Detwiler, RJ
> > rp: Lidge, Medlen
> >
> > I have 10 good minor-leaguers, which will eat up my picks all the way to #24
(due to trades) if I keep them all (worst 3 are Lawrie, Vitters, and Derek
Norris probably).
> >
> > I've traded away one keeper slot already and have extra picks at: 15, 25,
30, 31, 35, 35.
> >
> > So, first off, I've been sort of surprised by the Detwiler "love" shown on
this forum.  I had been figuring that without much velocity, and a 4.82 xFIP, he
was an easy cut.  But I'm reconsidering, since obviously I'm in dire need of
pitching. :(
> >
> > I have 16 names up above... my initial thoughts are that Lidge, Medlen, and
RJ are the easiest cuts, despite the paucity of pitching.  The next group of
potential cuts would all probably be easy for most teams (and so I'm trying to
trade away more keeper slots!) seem to be: Dukes, Young, Maholm, Detwiler,
Infante, Ruiz, and probably Cantu.
> >
> > Thanks for any thoughts, such as why I should keep certain guys, and/or how
many of them are cuttable if I can trade away the keeper slots, etc.  I also
have Oliver Perez and Shairon Martis and Peter Moylan, but figured they were all
obvious cuts.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Rob :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Lots of young NL CFs out there this year - what is everyone's opinion
on how these guys might rank in terms of keeper value:

Maybin
N Morgan
Stubbs
Fowler
McCutchen
Schafer
Rasmus
CarGo
Dukes

A couple of those guys won't be in CF this year (and Schafer may start
in AAA), but all qualify - obviously, there's some difference in
ceilings between some of them, too... Are any of them obvious cuts?
marginally keepable? Who are the definite keepers on a championship
caliber club? etc...

Thank you!

I see only three definate keepers, trade all the slots you can.

Definates:  Votto, CarGo, Ethier

Marginal or questionable:
Salty -- worth holding to see.  He's a crossover but you don't have a problem
with that.

Ruiz -- a decent catcher but will never help this team to a championship.  You
might get a lower pick for him.

Cantu -- depends in part on his fielding rating.

Cabrera -- there's little upside.  He's a marginal keeper but not a guy who
starts making a bad team good.

Seth Smith -- as good as he was this year, he's a drop unless the Rockies trade
Hawpe and open a spot for Smith.  I expect CarGo and Fowler will play everyday,
as will Hawpe if they keep him.

Dukes -- I know exactly what to expect from Dukes, and you can read it in my new
book available for $49.99.   or not.  Like Salty, it's its better to keep Dukes
and see if he matures than keep someone with no upside.

The rest are cuts.  Chris Young is at an age where we'd expect his power to
return, but is OBP is unlikely to become acceptable.

I'd keep Detwiler on this team. He throws plenty hard enough, can change speed
and has good stuff.  Established teams might not have room for him, but this one
does.

There is no reason to keep RJ.



--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Robert McQuown <robmcquown@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all -
>
> I took over a "project" NL team in a longstanding league midway through 2009,
and the potential MLB keeper list is pretty thin for 2010
(http://www.scoresheet.com/FOR_WWW/P_NL300.htm team 3).  I'd appreciate inputs:
>
> C: Salty, Ruiz
> 1b: Votto
> 2b: Infante
> 3b: Cantu
> ss: Everth Cabrera
> of: Carlos Gonzalez, Ethier, Seth Smith, Chris Young, Elijah Dukes
> sp: Maholm, Detwiler, RJ
> rp: Lidge, Medlen
>
> I have 10 good minor-leaguers, which will eat up my picks all the way to #24
(due to trades) if I keep them all (worst 3 are Lawrie, Vitters, and Derek
Norris probably).
>
> I've traded away one keeper slot already and have extra picks at: 15, 25, 30,
31, 35, 35.
>
> So, first off, I've been sort of surprised by the Detwiler "love" shown on
this forum.  I had been figuring that without much velocity, and a 4.82 xFIP, he
was an easy cut.  But I'm reconsidering, since obviously I'm in dire need of
pitching. :(
>
> I have 16 names up above... my initial thoughts are that Lidge, Medlen, and RJ
are the easiest cuts, despite the paucity of pitching.  The next group of
potential cuts would all probably be easy for most teams (and so I'm trying to
trade away more keeper slots!) seem to be: Dukes, Young, Maholm, Detwiler,
Infante, Ruiz, and probably Cantu.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts, such as why I should keep certain guys, and/or how
many of them are cuttable if I can trade away the keeper slots, etc.  I also
have Oliver Perez and Shairon Martis and Peter Moylan, but figured they were all
obvious cuts.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Rob :)
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Rob, I'll second Brian that I think you are generally have the right
idea.  I would think that you generally want to trade veteran
protection slots at this point if you can get a good return.  I've
never seen this kind of deal before, but could you find a team willing
to give you a pretty good veteran in exchange for two slots?

Given your rebuilding status, I can't see that Randy Johnson is a good
option for a veteran protection slot.

Among your prospects, I might look into trading Brett Wallace.  I
don't know how you evaluate these probabilities, but the possibility
of him qualifying only at 1B next year and having XO status suggest to
me that he might have more short-term value than long-term value.



On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Brian DewBerry-Jones wrote:
> Rob,
>
> I believe that you have the right idea.  With those keepers and keeping 10
> rookies, you will not be competitive next year.  You will be in 2011 and
> thereafter.  The question is which of these guys are good gambles to be
> protectable in 2011 or tradable next year.  I might gamble on keeping Medlen.
> He has the most upside of your pitchers and hopefully Atlanta will move him
back
> to the rotation.  Dukes is a maybe depending on what Washington does.
>
> Brian
>
> Robert McQuown wrote:
>> Hi all -
>>
>> I took over a "project" NL team in a longstanding league midway through 2009,
and the potential MLB keeper list is pretty thin for 2010
(http://www.scoresheet.com/FOR_WWW/P_NL300.htm team 3).  I'd appreciate inputs:
>>
>> C: Salty, Ruiz
>> 1b: Votto
>> 2b: Infante
>> 3b: Cantu
>> ss: Everth Cabrera
>> of: Carlos Gonzalez, Ethier, Seth Smith, Chris Young, Elijah Dukes
>> sp: Maholm, Detwiler, RJ
>> rp: Lidge, Medlen
>>
>> I have 10 good minor-leaguers, which will eat up my picks all the way to #24
(due to trades) if I keep them all (worst 3 are Lawrie, Vitters, and Derek
Norris probably).
>>
>> I've traded away one keeper slot already and have extra picks at: 15, 25, 30,
31, 35, 35.
>>
>> So, first off, I've been sort of surprised by the Detwiler "love" shown on
this forum.  I had been figuring that without much velocity, and a 4.82 xFIP, he
was an easy cut.  But I'm reconsidering, since obviously I'm in dire need of
pitching. :(
>>
>> I have 16 names up above... my initial thoughts are that Lidge, Medlen, and
RJ are the easiest cuts, despite the paucity of pitching.  The next group of
potential cuts would all probably be easy for most teams (and so I'm trying to
trade away more keeper slots!) seem to be: Dukes, Young, Maholm, Detwiler,
Infante, Ruiz, and probably Cantu.
>>
>> Thanks for any thoughts, such as why I should keep certain guys, and/or how
many of them are cuttable if I can trade away the keeper slots, etc.  I also
have Oliver Perez and Shairon Martis and Peter Moylan, but figured they were all
obvious cuts.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Rob :)

Rob,

I believe that you have the right idea.  With those keepers and keeping 10
rookies, you will not be competitive next year.  You will be in 2011 and
thereafter.  The question is which of these guys are good gambles to be
protectable in 2011 or tradable next year.  I might gamble on keeping Medlen.
He has the most upside of your pitchers and hopefully Atlanta will move him back
to the rotation.  Dukes is a maybe depending on what Washington does.

Brian

Robert McQuown wrote:
> Hi all -
>
> I took over a "project" NL team in a longstanding league midway through 2009,
and the potential MLB keeper list is pretty thin for 2010
(http://www.scoresheet.com/FOR_WWW/P_NL300.htm team 3).  I'd appreciate inputs:
>
> C: Salty, Ruiz
> 1b: Votto
> 2b: Infante
> 3b: Cantu
> ss: Everth Cabrera
> of: Carlos Gonzalez, Ethier, Seth Smith, Chris Young, Elijah Dukes
> sp: Maholm, Detwiler, RJ
> rp: Lidge, Medlen
>
> I have 10 good minor-leaguers, which will eat up my picks all the way to #24
(due to trades) if I keep them all (worst 3 are Lawrie, Vitters, and Derek
Norris probably).
>
> I've traded away one keeper slot already and have extra picks at: 15, 25, 30,
31, 35, 35.
>
> So, first off, I've been sort of surprised by the Detwiler "love" shown on
this forum.  I had been figuring that without much velocity, and a 4.82 xFIP, he
was an easy cut.  But I'm reconsidering, since obviously I'm in dire need of
pitching. :(
>
> I have 16 names up above... my initial thoughts are that Lidge, Medlen, and RJ
are the easiest cuts, despite the paucity of pitching.  The next group of
potential cuts would all probably be easy for most teams (and so I'm trying to
trade away more keeper slots!) seem to be: Dukes, Young, Maholm, Detwiler,
Infante, Ruiz, and probably Cantu.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts, such as why I should keep certain guys, and/or how
many of them are cuttable if I can trade away the keeper slots, etc.  I also
have Oliver Perez and Shairon Martis and Peter Moylan, but figured they were all
obvious cuts.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Rob :)
>
>
>

Hi all -

I took over a "project" NL team in a longstanding league midway through 2009,
and the potential MLB keeper list is pretty thin for 2010
(http://www.scoresheet.com/FOR_WWW/P_NL300.htm team 3).  I'd appreciate inputs:

C: Salty, Ruiz
1b: Votto
2b: Infante
3b: Cantu
ss: Everth Cabrera
of: Carlos Gonzalez, Ethier, Seth Smith, Chris Young, Elijah Dukes
sp: Maholm, Detwiler, RJ
rp: Lidge, Medlen

I have 10 good minor-leaguers, which will eat up my picks all the way to #24
(due to trades) if I keep them all (worst 3 are Lawrie, Vitters, and Derek
Norris probably).

I've traded away one keeper slot already and have extra picks at: 15, 25, 30,
31, 35, 35.

So, first off, I've been sort of surprised by the Detwiler "love" shown on this
forum.  I had been figuring that without much velocity, and a 4.82 xFIP, he was
an easy cut.  But I'm reconsidering, since obviously I'm in dire need of
pitching. :(

I have 16 names up above... my initial thoughts are that Lidge, Medlen, and RJ
are the easiest cuts, despite the paucity of pitching.  The next group of
potential cuts would all probably be easy for most teams (and so I'm trying to
trade away more keeper slots!) seem to be: Dukes, Young, Maholm, Detwiler,
Infante, Ruiz, and probably Cantu.

Thanks for any thoughts, such as why I should keep certain guys, and/or how many
of them are cuttable if I can trade away the keeper slots, etc.  I also have
Oliver Perez and Shairon Martis and Peter Moylan, but figured they were all
obvious cuts.

Thanks!

Rob :)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.attheplate.com/2010/10_crossovers.htm



--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "roland158" <rb_iii@...> wrote:
>
> Anybody have a list of the Crossovers for 2010 yet?
>

I agree that Anderson is a definite keeper.

Outman had TJ, so I wouldn't count on him for 2010.

I think the rest of the lot are interchangeable. They're all (mostly)
unfulfilled potential, but any of them could be good. Richard plays in a nice
pitchers park. I probably prefer them in the following order after Anderson and
a gap: Holland, Cecil, Masterson, Detwiler, Richard, West and Outman. But the
difference between Holland and West on my list would be small.

--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Ari" <evergreen_1979@...> wrote:
>
> Anderson is the class of the group.  West, Cecil, and Holland have talent and
should have jobs, and are decent keepers but I see all 3 as performance risks.
>
> I like Outman a lot as well, but I haven't been following his recovery from
injury.  Having missed the last 2/3 of 2009, he might not be a good bet for
2010.  I'm not high on Richard or Masterson at all; for now or ever.  I like
Detwiler a bit more, but not for 2010, and not enough to make him a keeper.
>
> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "IowaSt88" <rportillo64@> wrote:
> >
> > Looking for some feedback on a few young pitchers I have on my
> > roster.   Just wondering what people think of their potential to
> > be helpful next year.
> >
> > Brett Anderson
> > Clayton Richard
> > Derek Holland
> > Justin Masterson
> > Brett Cecil
> > Sean West
> > Josh Outman
> > Roger Detwiler
> >
>

Hi Everyone!
It's true...Jeff and the team at ScoreSheet are looking for guest bloggers...
you can blog on anything sports related, but preferably NFL, NHL or MLB of
course.  Blogs should be approx 250 words and guest bloggers can include a 3
line bio with a link to their own website or twitter account.  If anyone is
interested they can forward their material to me at rosaliecbrown@....  On
behalf of Jeff and myself, thanks!!

Anderson is the class of the group.  West, Cecil, and Holland have talent and
should have jobs, and are decent keepers but I see all 3 as performance risks.

I like Outman a lot as well, but I haven't been following his recovery from
injury.  Having missed the last 2/3 of 2009, he might not be a good bet for
2010.  I'm not high on Richard or Masterson at all; for now or ever.  I like
Detwiler a bit more, but not for 2010, and not enough to make him a keeper.

--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "IowaSt88" <rportillo64@...> wrote:
>
> Looking for some feedback on a few young pitchers I have on my
> roster.   Just wondering what people think of their potential to
> be helpful next year.
>
> Brett Anderson
> Clayton Richard
> Derek Holland
> Justin Masterson
> Brett Cecil
> Sean West
> Josh Outman
> Roger Detwiler
>

Looking for some feedback on a few young pitchers I have on my roster.   Just
wondering what people think of their potential to be helpful next year.

Brett Anderson
Clayton Richard
Derek Holland
Justin Masterson
Brett Cecil
Sean West
Josh Outman
Roger Detwiler

Jeff will be playing the first round on Friday or Saturday.

Brian

I now have the draw set:

http://www.dewberryjones.com/Tourney2009/TourneyDraw2009.html

I try to keep teams from the same league or the same owner separated.  The one
exception is the owner who requested that his teams meet in the first round.

I'm not sure when Jeff will start the tourney.

Brian

Brian DewBerry-Jones wrote:
> Here is a listing of the 57 teams entered for the 2009 tourney:
>
> http://www.dewberryjones.com/Tourney2009/TourneyTeams2009.html
>
> If there are any errors, let me know ASAP.  I'll be doing the grid today
> and submitting it to Jeff.
>
> Brian
>

Here is a listing of the 57 teams entered for the 2009 tourney:

http://www.dewberryjones.com/Tourney2009/TourneyTeams2009.html

If there are any errors, let me know ASAP.  I'll be doing the grid today and
submitting it to Jeff.

Brian

I kept 3 catchers (Saltalamacchia, Shoppach and Arencibia), and it worked
out terribly.

-Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jfilacanev
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 09:22
To: scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: ## Re: NL Protected Spot Help

I think owners' preferences in protecting certain positions over others
correlates with their area of strength, or area they feel is important. If
an owner strongly prefers protecting 5 pitchers, he probably builds strong
rotations, and therefore probably has 5 pitchers worthy of protecting.

As an aside to illustrate Joe's point about the "best 13," I actually kept
two catchers last year (Soto and Iannetta), which I felt was rather unusual.
Obviously, it didn't work out as well as expected.

--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Richard Landry <rlandry010@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm not set on any rule myself, one year I kept 3 releivers, then again
that worked out poorly, never tried that again.
>  
> I was just asking to see what others would write, beleive me i have my own
ideas and year to year they vary depending on what I have, as you may tell
from my recent posts/questions.
>  
> But I enjoyed reading the answers.
>  
> Thanks all
>  
> R
>
> --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Joe Domenchini <joe.domenchini@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe Domenchini <joe.domenchini@...>
> Subject: RE: ## Re: NL Protected Spot Help
> To: scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 6:56 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> I think it is too easy to let yourself get pigeonholed into a hard and
fast rule as far as protectees by position. I've been all over the place
with my protect list over the years (mind you, we keep 15 in my league, not
13, so the impact of keeping that 5th starter is very different). I always
go with the best 15 players, and if needed, I can draft or trade to fill the
holes that may be left from doing that. I also consider the league as a
whole, who my rookies are (if I have one who will pitch in MLB in the
upcoming year) and who I think will be available in the draft. I've actually
protected 6 starters a couple of times, and was able to draft position
players for the first few rounds of the draft. I've also kept 4, and gone
with the "fill the 5th slot with a RP" strategy.
>
> I know this is trite, but the protection list should adapt to your team,
not the other way around.
>
> I'll keep 5 starters this year, I think. 4 for sure, the 5th most likely.
>
> -Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scoresheet-talk@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:scoresheet-talk@
yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Richard Landry
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 16:22
> To: scoresheet-talk@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: ## Re: NL Protected Spot Help
>
> "
> 5th starters are the most overrated commodity in scoresheet. They are
> fungible, easily improved by using a SER and a couple of extra bullpen
arms,
> and play no role in the playoffs. I wouldn't keep a 5th starter unless I
> thought he was good enough to maybe be a 1 or 2 starter. But of course,
> that's my own strategy; if you want to keep these types of guys, that
might
> work out for you. I'm just saying *I* wouldn't and I don't advise it; this
> thread started from someone asking advice, right?"
>
> This makes me wonder, and don't take it wrong, but if you don;t like to
keep a 5th starter (and i do understand if hes a 4.5 era kind of guy I would
not either) but how would you keep your 13 keepers? Ya got to keep someone.
How do you divvy it up? Just curious, looking for ideas.
>
> R
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




------------------------------------

List owners:  brian@..., grum@...,
phfinkelstein@...
Yahoo! Groups Links

Well, maybe but Wolf didn't pitch that much better in 2009 than in previous
years.  Yes, his ERA was way lower, but his BABIP was 257 and his strand rate
was much higher than in the past.  I'm not saying he's not a decent pitcher but
he's not a 3.20 ERA pitcher either.

Plus, he's likely not going to be pitching in LA and would likely be in a less
friendly pitching ballpark.

Wolf is a great pitcher to deal, since 2010 results (ERA) aren't likely to match
2009.

--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "kwarrenca" <kenwarren77@...> wrote:
>
> Wolf was a great young pitcher until the Phillies decided to let him throw 136
pitches on June 23, 2003, in 90+ degree heat, after not having thrown over 113
pitches in any of his earlier starts.  His ERA was 3.12 then and 3.20 for the
previous season.  He pitched horribly (5.56 ERA) for the rest of the 2003 season
and never did regain his form until 2009.  In fact he never pitched more than
136 innings until 2008.
>
> Maybe he's healthy again and has regained his former ability.  His 160/58
(K/BB) ratio indicates that 2009 was not a fluke season.  It's not as if this
kind of pitching is something he is not capable of when healthy.
>
>
> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "e_hunke" <E_Hunke2@> wrote:
> >
> > I'd trade Wolf for a Rd 19.  His ERA last year was pretty shiny but for the
last half dozen years he probably wasn't a decent keeper.
> >
> > But I think you need to keep Sanchez and de la Rosa.  Lefthanders who
average > k per inning need to be kept.
> >
> > Trade Wolf, dump Sheets, keep Iannetta and Willingham.   There is no way I
would keep Milledge.  But Blanks should be tradeable as should Hudson and Ross.
> >
> > --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Ray Parizo <accudart1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > thanks guys for the help.
> > >  
> > > I just think the second half numbers put up by J Sanchez and de la Rosa
mean something no?
> > > I have thought about moving Wolf and had an offer of a 19 (way too low)
offered. I do think Ianetta is someone to protect but I also have Montero. I
like Milledge as well, you guys I think are all right...
> > >  
> > > What do you guys think of moving wolf, saving Hudson and Iannetta as well
as the value of Sheets and Blanks?
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Ari <evergreen_1979@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Ari <evergreen_1979@>
> > > Subject: ## Re: NL Protected Spot Help
> > > To: scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 7:51 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Under no circumstances should you keep: Sanchez, Sheets
> > > I would also drop: de la Rosa
> > >
> > > Under no circumstances should you cut: Iannetta
> > > I would also keep: Hudson, one of {Blanks, Ross, Hoffman}
> > >
> > > --- In scoresheet-talk@ yahoogroups. com, Ray Parizo <accudart1@ ..>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Standard 10 team league. I have 14 protected spots and this what
> > > > I'm thinking so far: Beckett, Jimenez, Wandy, de la Rosa, Cueto,
> > > > J. Sanchez, Wolf and Sheets Kemp, Beltran, Hamilton, Reynolds,
> > > > Votto and Montero.
> > > >  
> > > > I'm guessing keeping Sheets won't be liked. Should Wolf be sold
> > > > off possibly. Below are players I also have...Blanks and Hudson
> > > > being names maybe I should keep? K. Blanks, O. Hudson, Willingham,
> > > > Ross, Dukes, Milledge, Iannetta, Street and Hoffman. Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

I don't use starters as innings eaters.  Other than my elite starters, I use any
others that I have as little as possible. Loading up with relievers who have a
3.50 to 4.00 ERA is a much better way to go.  Using these types of players is
preferable to AAA obviously, so there is some value to having at least one on
your taxi squad.

In our NL league we had the lowest ERA in the league with this staff:

W. Rodriguez  2.42
Vazquez       2.72
Kuo           2.35
Masset        2.87
Meyer         3.56

Bell          2.39
Pena          4.04
D. Reyes      3.86
Moylan        2.82
Adams         0.39
Herrerra      3.18
Thatcher      1.42
Madson        3.13
Durbin        3.96
Bennett       3.65

Taxi Squad

The Unit      5.01
Lohse         3.61
Garland       3.27


I can't see how a Zito or a delaRosa would even help this team, much less be
protectable.





--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, David Gordon <deg23deg@...> wrote:
>
> It's easy to flippantly dismiss guys like de la Rosa, Sanchez,
> Blanton, Zito as "non-keepers", but in SS, innings-eaters like those who keep
you in ball-games against other teams' mid- and back-end starters have good
value. You sure can't find them in the draft very easily.

--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Dan Wachtell <dwachtell@...> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Dr Andrew J Cleary
> <andy.cleary@...>wrote:
>
> >  I still don't get keeping DeLaRosa. [. . .] Is there really much chance
this guy can bust a 4 era in Coors?
> >
>
> Maybe not, but then you're probably putting too much emphasis on ERA.

For better or worse ERA is what drives the Scoresheet simulator.  It's not
skills that matter, but results, and they are often in conflict with each other.



Bill James projects him back to 4.73
  but I don't think it's unreasonable for him to continue to improve.


Who's Bill James?  I think we would all rather know your opinion than his in any
event.



   And even if he doesn't......

that would mean that James is correct and you're not.  Not a chance.



, we're talking about him as a 4th/5th starter.  I don't
> know who you expect to find available in the draft in a reasonably capable
league that's guaranteed to do what he is, discounting even for his potential to
continue improving.


It's not usually a good idea to protect 4th and 5th starting pitcher types.  You
can actually win a regular season Scoresheet quite easily with only three
bonafide starters.  And the difference between the guys you can draft compared
to those that you protect is so small that it's not really worth protecting any
starter that is not a heavy favourite to post a sub 4.00 ERA.

Wolf was a great young pitcher until the Phillies decided to let him throw 136
pitches on June 23, 2003, in 90+ degree heat, after not having thrown over 113
pitches in any of his earlier starts.  His ERA was 3.12 then and 3.20 for the
previous season.  He pitched horribly (5.56 ERA) for the rest of the 2003 season
and never did regain his form until 2009.  In fact he never pitched more than
136 innings until 2008.

Maybe he's healthy again and has regained his former ability.  His 160/58 (K/BB)
ratio indicates that 2009 was not a fluke season.  It's not as if this kind of
pitching is something he is not capable of when healthy.


--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "e_hunke" <E_Hunke2@...> wrote:
>
> I'd trade Wolf for a Rd 19.  His ERA last year was pretty shiny but for the
last half dozen years he probably wasn't a decent keeper.
>
> But I think you need to keep Sanchez and de la Rosa.  Lefthanders who average
> k per inning need to be kept.
>
> Trade Wolf, dump Sheets, keep Iannetta and Willingham.   There is no way I
would keep Milledge.  But Blanks should be tradeable as should Hudson and Ross.
>
> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Ray Parizo <accudart1@> wrote:
> >
> > thanks guys for the help.
> >  
> > I just think the second half numbers put up by J Sanchez and de la Rosa mean
something no?
> > I have thought about moving Wolf and had an offer of a 19 (way too low)
offered. I do think Ianetta is someone to protect but I also have Montero. I
like Milledge as well, you guys I think are all right...
> >  
> > What do you guys think of moving wolf, saving Hudson and Iannetta as well as
the value of Sheets and Blanks?
> >
> > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Ari <evergreen_1979@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Ari <evergreen_1979@>
> > Subject: ## Re: NL Protected Spot Help
> > To: scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 7:51 PM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Under no circumstances should you keep: Sanchez, Sheets
> > I would also drop: de la Rosa
> >
> > Under no circumstances should you cut: Iannetta
> > I would also keep: Hudson, one of {Blanks, Ross, Hoffman}
> >
> > --- In scoresheet-talk@ yahoogroups. com, Ray Parizo <accudart1@ ..> wrote:
> > >
> > > Standard 10 team league. I have 14 protected spots and this what
> > > I'm thinking so far: Beckett, Jimenez, Wandy, de la Rosa, Cueto,
> > > J. Sanchez, Wolf and Sheets Kemp, Beltran, Hamilton, Reynolds,
> > > Votto and Montero.
> > >  
> > > I'm guessing keeping Sheets won't be liked. Should Wolf be sold
> > > off possibly. Below are players I also have...Blanks and Hudson
> > > being names maybe I should keep? K. Blanks, O. Hudson, Willingham,
> > > Ross, Dukes, Milledge, Iannetta, Street and Hoffman. Thanks.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Some managers like to have long deep pens to make up for the lack of
rotation starters. If you have some position flexibility and a few bench
guys that can cover for all your starters, then 17 pitchers isn't
unreasonable. If you have 5 workhorse starters, a good 6th one, and a
few reliable relievers, you could get away with 11 pitchers and fill
your line-up with platoon-mates and defensive replacements. Ultimately,
injuries and the number of prospects you are carrying often dictate your
balance of pitchers and position players. On the average, I carry about
14 pitchers on my line-up card.

Here are the more important basics of line-up cards:
http://scoresheetwiz.tripod.com/id48.html
<http://scoresheetwiz.tripod.com/id48.html> .


--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "roland158" <rb_iii@...> wrote:
>
> 15 pitchers and 15 hitters, 16 pitchers and 14 hitters or something
else? What's the norm and are there any specific reasons why one or the
other is better?
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think owners' preferences in protecting certain positions over others
correlates with their area of strength, or area they feel is important. If an
owner strongly prefers protecting 5 pitchers, he probably builds strong
rotations, and therefore probably has 5 pitchers worthy of protecting.

As an aside to illustrate Joe's point about the "best 13," I actually kept two
catchers last year (Soto and Iannetta), which I felt was rather unusual.
Obviously, it didn't work out as well as expected.

--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Richard Landry <rlandry010@...> wrote:
>
> I'm not set on any rule myself, one year I kept 3 releivers, then again that
worked out poorly, never tried that again.
>  
> I was just asking to see what others would write, beleive me i have my own
ideas and year to year they vary depending on what I have, as you may tell from
my recent posts/questions.
>  
> But I enjoyed reading the answers.
>  
> Thanks all
>  
> R
>
> --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Joe Domenchini <joe.domenchini@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe Domenchini <joe.domenchini@...>
> Subject: RE: ## Re: NL Protected Spot Help
> To: scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 6:56 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> I think it is too easy to let yourself get pigeonholed into a hard and fast
rule as far as protectees by position. I've been all over the place with my
protect list over the years (mind you, we keep 15 in my league, not 13, so the
impact of keeping that 5th starter is very different). I always go with the best
15 players, and if needed, I can draft or trade to fill the holes that may be
left from doing that. I also consider the league as a whole, who my rookies are
(if I have one who will pitch in MLB in the upcoming year) and who I think will
be available in the draft. I've actually protected 6 starters a couple of times,
and was able to draft position players for the first few rounds of the draft.
I've also kept 4, and gone with the "fill the 5th slot with a RP" strategy.
>
> I know this is trite, but the protection list should adapt to your team, not
the other way around.
>
> I'll keep 5 starters this year, I think. 4 for sure, the 5th most likely.
>
> -Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scoresheet-talk@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:scoresheet-talk@ yahoogroups.
com] On Behalf Of Richard Landry
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 16:22
> To: scoresheet-talk@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: ## Re: NL Protected Spot Help
>
> "
> 5th starters are the most overrated commodity in scoresheet. They are
> fungible, easily improved by using a SER and a couple of extra bullpen arms,
> and play no role in the playoffs. I wouldn't keep a 5th starter unless I
> thought he was good enough to maybe be a 1 or 2 starter. But of course,
> that's my own strategy; if you want to keep these types of guys, that might
> work out for you. I'm just saying *I* wouldn't and I don't advise it; this
> thread started from someone asking advice, right?"
>
> This makes me wonder, and don't take it wrong, but if you don;t like to keep a
5th starter (and i do understand if hes a 4.5 era kind of guy I would not
either) but how would you keep your 13 keepers? Ya got to keep someone. How do
you divvy it up? Just curious, looking for ideas.
>
> R
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I think it depends on who you have, rather than a hard fast rule.




________________________________
From: roland158 <rb_iii@...>
To: scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 12, 2009 10:22:08 PM
Subject: ## Lineup Card


15 pitchers and 15 hitters, 16 pitchers and 14 hitters or something else? 
What's the norm and are there any specific reasons why one or the other is
better?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]