Final stats of 2 teams I faced this week 6.50 era..... 239 BA



So my teams go 3-3 and go ..what the ....?

and look back on games trying to figure out whats the deal.



I had not spectacular but solid pitching performances from all pitchers other

than Hamels

            IP/WHIP/Earned runs

Lincecum   9 / 7 / 1

J Johnson   6 / 9 /3

Oswalt      6 / 9 / 1

Hamels      4.2/ 10/ 4

Kazmir      5 / 5 / 2



So what happens?

Game One... Hamels starts?.. so im figuring ok maybe I lose this one as he got

lit up.  Hmm.. but its still bottom of 8th inning and Hamels is still in 

pitching ahead 3-2 and now all my better gloves in IROD, Matusi come in for

defensive purposes. Time for my closer Mike Gonzalez to come in.  He pitched 3

innings this week in real baseball striking out six and not allowing a hit or

walk...But huh???  here comes Chris Perez my # 2 guy out of pen vs RHP.  Denys

Reyes is # 2 vs LHP...OK.. Its Closing time right?  Where the bonk is Mike

Gonzalez?   Not Chris Perez. So what happens in top of ninth in closing

situation non-closer comes in and give up 2 runs. And then. but not until then,

in comes Gonzalez with two outs in top of ninth to get final out (1/3rd inning)

after Perez blew lead.  Well that bites in Game One.



Game Two ..Josh Johnson starts. This game Mike Gonzalez does come in th 8th

inning to hold opponents scorelsss in 8th and 9th innings to win 3-2.  1 and 1

so far.



Game Three.. Lincecum starts.  W 3-0 nine inning shutout.. No clsoe comes in.. 2

and 1 so far.



Game 4   Hamels again? He only pitched 4.2 inning in real baseball, is not my #

1 listed pitcher, plus he has already pitched 8 2/3rds in game # 1. H did pitch

twice the previous week though pitching 14 innings ang only giving up 4 total

earned runs. But Josh Johnson alos pitched twice previous week and is listed

higher in rotation. Johnson gave up 4 runs in 16 innings in two starts.  But

what the hey?  Its top of 7th and Hamels already given up 6 runs  and he give up

3 mor making it nine bebleeping runs.  Where my RPers and how has Hamels givenup

mor u runs in this one game that he gave up in three games of 18.2 IP over past

3 weeks. Especially considering team Opponents as per Scoresheet hit .239. But

now whats this ? In bottom of 7th here comes my closer ?? and we are down 9-6. 

Why is my closer coming into this game?

He pitches 1/3rd of inning and gets his out and get pinch hit for.



Ok, here comes Felipe Paulino (now down 9-7) who pitched fantastically in real

baseball giving up one run and three hits in 7 innings this w past week. Imagien

my surprise (and anothe hair lost) when my .239 batting average opponents

immediately score three runs off Paulino.

But what it continues my 6.52 Era opponents pitcher now use a AAA pitcher, but

in bottom of eight my team does down 1-2-3 and AAA guy pitch another scoreless

ninth.  So now its 2 and 2 for week.



Game 5..Scott Kazmir  (back finally with 5 2 er in 5 ip). But Gives up 3 runs by

middle of fifth inning to .239 hitting opponents coming out with bases loaded

only for Leo Nunez to get lit up for four runs. Probably reaqlsitic in that

Nunez gave up 3 earned runs in one Inning in real basball (Stinks but that is

what is was) . So what . Why is Mike Gonzalez pitchign in 7th inning again in a

non closer situation? behidn 7-1. Sigh. This time Paulino comess in meaningless

game and gets two innings of six-up-six-down after givng up e 3 runs in previous

game.  Now Down 2-3 vs .239 hitting adn 6.50 era pitching opponents



Final Game  Roy Oswalt (Roy is back). vs Bronson Arroyo 7=1 win vs a team with

AA catcher, AAS 1B and AA pitchgin for 4 innings.



Lessons learned about readjusting sp and closer hooks. Still a most frustrating

week. We all have them from time to time



However, Lincecum and Roy Oswalt have started this weeks games on Monday with a

nine inning shutout and one earnd run complete games

Carl

what league is this, Carl? Would like to look at your results.



    Tom



--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <togatx@...> wrote:

>

> Final stats of 2 teams I faced this week 6.50 era..... 239 BA

>

> So my teams go 3-3 and go ..what the ....?

> and look back on games trying to figure out whats the deal.

>

> I had not spectacular but solid pitching performances from all pitchers other

than Hamels

>            IP/WHIP/Earned runs

> Lincecum   9 / 7 / 1

> J Johnson   6 / 9 /3

> Oswalt      6 / 9 / 1

> Hamels      4.2/ 10/ 4

> Kazmir      5 / 5 / 2

>

> So what happens?

> Game One... Hamels starts?.. so im figuring ok maybe I lose this one as he got

lit up.  Hmm.. but its still bottom of 8th inning and Hamels is still in 

pitching ahead 3-2 and now all my better gloves in IROD, Matusi come in for

defensive purposes. Time for my closer Mike Gonzalez to come in.  He pitched 3

innings this week in real baseball striking out six and not allowing a hit or

walk...But huh???  here comes Chris Perez my # 2 guy out of pen vs RHP.  Denys

Reyes is # 2 vs LHP...OK.. Its Closing time right?  Where the bonk is Mike

Gonzalez?   Not Chris Perez. So what happens in top of ninth in closing

situation non-closer comes in and give up 2 runs. And then. but not until then,

in comes Gonzalez with two outs in top of ninth to get final out (1/3rd inning)

after Perez blew lead.  Well that bites in Game One.

>

> Game Two ..Josh Johnson starts. This game Mike Gonzalez does come in th 8th

inning to hold opponents scorelsss in 8th and 9th innings to win 3-2.  1 and 1

so far.

>

> Game Three.. Lincecum starts.  W 3-0 nine inning shutout.. No clsoe comes in..

2 and 1 so far.

>

> Game 4   Hamels again? He only pitched 4.2 inning in real baseball, is not my

# 1 listed pitcher, plus he has already pitched 8 2/3rds in game # 1. H did

pitch twice the previous week though pitching 14 innings ang only giving up 4

total earned runs. But Josh Johnson alos pitched twice previous week and is

listed higher in rotation. Johnson gave up 4 runs in 16 innings in two starts. 

But what the hey?  Its top of 7th and Hamels already given up 6 runs  and he

give up 3 mor making it nine bebleeping runs.  Where my RPers and how has Hamels

givenup mor u runs in this one game that he gave up in three games of 18.2 IP

over past 3 weeks. Especially considering team Opponents as per Scoresheet hit

.239. But now whats this ? In bottom of 7th here comes my closer ?? and we are

down 9-6.  Why is my closer coming into this game?

> He pitches 1/3rd of inning and gets his out and get pinch hit for.

>

> Ok, here comes Felipe Paulino (now down 9-7) who pitched fantastically in real

baseball giving up one run and three hits in 7 innings this w past week. Imagien

my surprise (and anothe hair lost) when my .239 batting average opponents

immediately score three runs off Paulino.

> But what it continues my 6.52 Era opponents pitcher now use a AAA pitcher, but

in bottom of eight my team does down 1-2-3 and AAA guy pitch another scoreless

ninth.  So now its 2 and 2 for week.

>

> Game 5..Scott Kazmir  (back finally with 5 2 er in 5 ip). But Gives up 3 runs

by middle of fifth inning to .239 hitting opponents coming out with bases loaded

only for Leo Nunez to get lit up for four runs. Probably reaqlsitic in that

Nunez gave up 3 earned runs in one Inning in real basball (Stinks but that is

what is was) . So what . Why is Mike Gonzalez pitchign in 7th inning again in a

non closer situation? behidn 7-1. Sigh. This time Paulino comess in meaningless

game and gets two innings of six-up-six-down after givng up e 3 runs in previous

game.  Now Down 2-3 vs .239 hitting adn 6.50 era pitching opponents

>

> Final Game  Roy Oswalt (Roy is back). vs Bronson Arroyo 7=1 win vs a team with

AA catcher, AAS 1B and AA pitchgin for 4 innings.

>

> Lessons learned about readjusting sp and closer hooks. Still a most

frustrating week. We all have them from time to time

>

> However, Lincecum and Roy Oswalt have started this weeks games on Monday with

a nine inning shutout and one earnd run complete games

> Carl

>

--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hanrahan" <Han60Man@...> wrote:

NL 322  Maybe I am missing something in my settings but I dont understand how a

guy like Paulino can give up 3 runs in one game  in which he pithed one inning

in Scoresheet when he pitched one 7 inning game and gave up only 3 hits and 1

earned run in real baseball especially when the opponents hit .239 for the week.

Perhaps you can offer  me some insight on this team regarding a better lineup or

better use of hook #s based on the team makeup and your experiences that would

maximize the results of this team in games in Scoresheet



Thanks Carl

>

> what league is this, Carl? Would like to look at your results.

>

>    Tom

>

> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <togatx@> wrote:

> >

> > Final stats of 2 teams I faced this week 6.50 era..... 239 BA

> >

> > So my teams go 3-3 and go ..what the ....?

> > and look back on games trying to figure out whats the deal.

> >

> > I had not spectacular but solid pitching performances from all pitchers

other than Hamels

> >            IP/WHIP/Earned runs

> > Lincecum   9 / 7 / 1

> > J Johnson   6 / 9 /3

> > Oswalt      6 / 9 / 1

> > Hamels      4.2/ 10/ 4

> > Kazmir      5 / 5 / 2

> >

> > So what happens?

> > Game One... Hamels starts?.. so im figuring ok maybe I lose this one as he

got lit up.  Hmm.. but its still bottom of 8th inning and Hamels is still in 

pitching ahead 3-2 and now all my better gloves in IROD, Matusi come in for

defensive purposes. Time for my closer Mike Gonzalez to come in.  He pitched 3

innings this week in real baseball striking out six and not allowing a hit or

walk...But huh???  here comes Chris Perez my # 2 guy out of pen vs RHP.  Denys

Reyes is # 2 vs LHP...OK.. Its Closing time right?  Where the bonk is Mike

Gonzalez?   Not Chris Perez. So what happens in top of ninth in closing

situation non-closer comes in and give up 2 runs. And then. but not until then,

in comes Gonzalez with two outs in top of ninth to get final out (1/3rd inning)

after Perez blew lead.  Well that bites in Game One.

> >

> > Game Two ..Josh Johnson starts. This game Mike Gonzalez does come in th 8th

inning to hold opponents scorelsss in 8th and 9th innings to win 3-2.  1 and 1

so far.

> >

> > Game Three.. Lincecum starts.  W 3-0 nine inning shutout.. No clsoe comes

in.. 2 and 1 so far.

> >

> > Game 4   Hamels again? He only pitched 4.2 inning in real baseball, is not

my # 1 listed pitcher, plus he has already pitched 8 2/3rds in game # 1. H did

pitch twice the previous week though pitching 14 innings ang only giving up 4

total earned runs. But Josh Johnson alos pitched twice previous week and is

listed higher in rotation. Johnson gave up 4 runs in 16 innings in two starts. 

But what the hey?  Its top of 7th and Hamels already given up 6 runs  and he

give up 3 mor making it nine bebleeping runs.  Where my RPers and how has Hamels

givenup mor u runs in this one game that he gave up in three games of 18.2 IP

over past 3 weeks. Especially considering team Opponents as per Scoresheet hit

.239. But now whats this ? In bottom of 7th here comes my closer ?? and we are

down 9-6.  Why is my closer coming into this game?

> > He pitches 1/3rd of inning and gets his out and get pinch hit for.

> >

> > Ok, here comes Felipe Paulino (now down 9-7) who pitched fantastically in

real baseball giving up one run and three hits in 7 innings this w past week.

Imagien my surprise (and anothe hair lost) when my .239 batting average

opponents immediately score three runs off Paulino.

> > But what it continues my 6.52 Era opponents pitcher now use a AAA pitcher,

but in bottom of eight my team does down 1-2-3 and AAA guy pitch another

scoreless ninth.  So now its 2 and 2 for week.

> >

> > Game 5..Scott Kazmir  (back finally with 5 2 er in 5 ip). But Gives up 3

runs by middle of fifth inning to .239 hitting opponents coming out with bases

loaded only for Leo Nunez to get lit up for four runs. Probably reaqlsitic in

that Nunez gave up 3 earned runs in one Inning in real basball (Stinks but that

is what is was) . So what . Why is Mike Gonzalez pitchign in 7th inning again in

a non closer situation? behidn 7-1. Sigh. This time Paulino comess in

meaningless game and gets two innings of six-up-six-down after givng up e 3 runs

in previous game.  Now Down 2-3 vs .239 hitting adn 6.50 era pitching opponents

> >

> > Final Game  Roy Oswalt (Roy is back). vs Bronson Arroyo 7=1 win vs a team

with AA catcher, AAS 1B and AA pitchgin for 4 innings.

> >

> > Lessons learned about readjusting sp and closer hooks. Still a most

frustrating week. We all have them from time to time

> >

> > However, Lincecum and Roy Oswalt have started this weeks games on Monday

with a nine inning shutout and one earnd run complete games

> > Carl

> >

>

well Carl, since Paulino hadn't pitched in a few weeks prior, & you prob. had

him in back then or prior anyway?: I'd say it's a combined stat result. He's

been brutal other than that 1 outing?





  Date  IP  ERA(on date)



  Jun 27 7.0  5.51

  Jun 7  1.2  6.18







--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <togatx@...> wrote:

  NL 322  Maybe I am missing something in my settings but I dont understand how a

guy like Paulino can give up 3 runs in one game  in which he pithed one inning

in Scoresheet when he pitched one 7 inning game and gave up only 3 hits and 1

earned run in real baseball especially when the opponents hit .239 for the week.

Perhaps you can offer  me some insight on this team regarding a better lineup or

better use of hook #s based on the team makeup and your experiences that would

maximize the results of this team in games in Scoresheet

>

> Thanks Carl

mislabelled (sp?), that's really season ERA (on date)... oh & as long as I'm

dup. posting meant to start that by saying "well, Carl, my guess is... (etc)".



--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "soxknation" <chaswiles@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> well Carl, since Paulino hadn't pitched in a few weeks prior, & you prob. had

him in back then or prior anyway?: I'd say it's a combined stat result. He's

been brutal other than that 1 outing?

>

>

>  Date  IP  ERA(on date)

>

>  Jun 27 7.0  5.51

>  Jun 7  1.2  6.18

Yes I get he has been brutal but THIS Particular week Paulino ONLY only pitched

in real baseball as a starter in one 7 inning performance in which he gave up 3

hits, no walks, nine Ks and one earned run. I haven't checked but I think he got

into two game for me this past week in Scoresheet and pitched 3 innings gvign up

3 earned runs in th oen innign in th first game (comign as my # 5 guy out of

pen)  I thought carryforward stats only came into play when a particular player

had unused innings from previous weeks and needed those. If I guy pitches 7

innings in real baseball in a week does the SIMM still use provious stats from

prior weeks?



So am I missing something? Because if the SIMM does go back and average previous

terribly pitching performances might as well bench a guy who started the season

horribly for the remainder of year and Never use him again..



  --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "soxknation" <chaswiles@...> wrote:

>

> mislabelled (sp?), that's really season ERA (on date)... oh & as long as I'm

dup. posting meant to start that by saying "well, Carl, my guess is... (etc)".

>

> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "soxknation" <chaswiles@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > well Carl, since Paulino hadn't pitched in a few weeks prior, & you prob.

had him in back then or prior anyway?: I'd say it's a combined stat result. He's

been brutal other than that 1 outing?

> >

> >

> >  Date  IP  ERA(on date)

> >

> >  Jun 27 7.0  5.51

> >  Jun 7  1.2  6.18

>

Given the recent run of complaints like these, I think the Bartons might find a

less testy market if they just dumped the sim and turned each week's outcomes

into a child's Collectible Card Game:  a-ha, I trump your C.C. Sabathia

strikeout card with my Albert Pujols home run card.  I win again!





--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <togatx@...> wrote:

>

>

> Yes I get he has been brutal but THIS Particular week Paulino ONLY only

pitched in real baseball as a starter in one 7 inning performance in which he

gave up 3 hits, no walks, nine Ks and one earned run. I haven't checked but I

think he got into two game for me this past week in Scoresheet and pitched 3

innings gvign up 3 earned runs in th oen innign in th first game (comign as my #

5 guy out of pen)  I thought carryforward stats only came into play when a

particular player had unused innings from previous weeks and needed those. If I

guy pitches 7 innings in real baseball in a week does the SIMM still use

provious stats from prior weeks?

>

> So am I missing something? Because if the SIMM does go back and average

previous terribly pitching performances might as well bench a guy who started

the season horribly for the remainder of year and Never use him again..

>

>  --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "soxknation" <chaswiles@> wrote:

> >

> > mislabelled (sp?), that's really season ERA (on date)... oh & as long as I'm

dup. posting meant to start that by saying "well, Carl, my guess is... (etc)".

> >

> > --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "soxknation" <chaswiles@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > well Carl, since Paulino hadn't pitched in a few weeks prior, & you prob.

had him in back then or prior anyway?: I'd say it's a combined stat result. He's

been brutal other than that 1 outing?

> > >

> > >

> > >  Date  IP  ERA(on date)

> > >

> > >  Jun 27 7.0  5.51

> > >  Jun 7  1.2  6.18

> >

>

Well, they get complaints that the outcomes and too random and complaints that

the outcomes are not random enough.  The more I read these complaints the more I

believe the sim stikes a reasonable balance.



--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "bostonibis" <bostonibis@...> wrote:

>

> Given the recent run of complaints like these, I think the Bartons might find

a less testy market if they just dumped the sim and turned each week's outcomes

into a child's Collectible Card Game:  a-ha, I trump your C.C. Sabathia

strikeout card with my Albert Pujols home run card.  I win again!

>

>

> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <togatx@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Yes I get he has been brutal but THIS Particular week Paulino ONLY only

pitched in real baseball as a starter in one 7 inning performance in which he

gave up 3 hits, no walks, nine Ks and one earned run. I haven't checked but I

think he got into two game for me this past week in Scoresheet and pitched 3

innings gvign up 3 earned runs in th oen innign in th first game (comign as my #

5 guy out of pen)  I thought carryforward stats only came into play when a

particular player had unused innings from previous weeks and needed those. If I

guy pitches 7 innings in real baseball in a week does the SIMM still use

provious stats from prior weeks?

> >

> > So am I missing something? Because if the SIMM does go back and average

previous terribly pitching performances might as well bench a guy who started

the season horribly for the remainder of year and Never use him again..

> >

> >  --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "soxknation" <chaswiles@> wrote:

> > >

> > > mislabelled (sp?), that's really season ERA (on date)... oh & as long as

I'm dup. posting meant to start that by saying "well, Carl, my guess is...

(etc)".

> > >

> > > --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "soxknation" <chaswiles@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > well Carl, since Paulino hadn't pitched in a few weeks prior, & you

prob. had him in back then or prior anyway?: I'd say it's a combined stat

result. He's been brutal other than that 1 outing?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >  Date  IP  ERA(on date)

> > > >

> > > >  Jun 27 7.0  5.51

> > > >  Jun 7  1.2  6.18

> > >

> >

>

I agree.  I also think people tend to forget that performance in the

sim isn't just based on what your guy did in real life... it's also

based on what the guys he's facing in Scoresheet did in real life.  So

Joe Pitcher pitched 8 innings IRL and only gave up one run while

striking out 9 and walking 1.  That's great.  But if he was facing the

Nationals IRL, and facing a lineup of hot hitters in Scoresheet, he's

not necessarily going to get the same results.



I mean, let's think about it...  If he did... if Joe Pitcher performed

in Scoresheet the same as he did against a weak-hitting real-life

team, wouldn't that just mean the sim was broken in the other

direction?  As the owner of the team with the hot-hitting lineup, I

could then turn around and complain, "Hey! My guys as a lineup had a .

400/.550/.800 line for the week, and we were all but shut down by Joe

Pitcher!  What gives?!?"



There are just going to be times when a good performance IRL doesn't

end up as good in Scoresheet, all because of the way the matchups

break down...



- Derek





On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:26 AM, garthhewitt wrote:



> Well, they get complaints that the outcomes and too random and

> complaints that the outcomes are not random enough.  The more I read

> these complaints the more I believe the sim stikes a reasonable

> balance.

Who a pitcher faced in real life and the park they pitched in is totally

irrelevant.



The simulator treats a game in PETCO Park against the Nationals exactly the same

as it treats a game against the Phillies in Citizens Bank Park.



Your post indicates that you believe that the simulator takes into account the

quality of competition a pitcher had in real life.  It doesn't.







--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hiemforth <derek@...> wrote:

>

> I agree.  I also think people tend to forget that performance in the

> sim isn't just based on what your guy did in real life... it's also

> based on what the guys he's facing in Scoresheet did in real life.  So

> Joe Pitcher pitched 8 innings IRL and only gave up one run while

> striking out 9 and walking 1.  That's great.  But if he was facing the

> Nationals IRL, and facing a lineup of hot hitters in Scoresheet, he's

> not necessarily going to get the same results.

>

> I mean, let's think about it...  If he did... if Joe Pitcher performed

> in Scoresheet the same as he did against a weak-hitting real-life

> team, wouldn't that just mean the sim was broken in the other

> direction?  As the owner of the team with the hot-hitting lineup, I

> could then turn around and complain, "Hey! My guys as a lineup had a .

> 400/.550/.800 line for the week, and we were all but shut down by Joe

> Pitcher!  What gives?!?"

>

> There are just going to be times when a good performance IRL doesn't

> end up as good in Scoresheet, all because of the way the matchups

> break down...

>

> - Derek

>

>

> On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:26 AM, garthhewitt wrote:

>

> > Well, they get complaints that the outcomes and too random and

> > complaints that the outcomes are not random enough.  The more I read

> > these complaints the more I believe the sim stikes a reasonable

> > balance.

>

So you're telling me that if Tim Lincecum pitches a shutout against

the Nationals, then he's equally likely to pitch a shutout against the

toughest lineup in my Scoresheet BL league?  And if that's not what

you're telling me, then you misunderstood my post.



- Derek





On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:32 AM, kwarrenca wrote:



> Who a pitcher faced in real life and the park they pitched in is

> totally irrelevant.

>

> The simulator treats a game in PETCO Park against the Nationals

> exactly the same as it treats a game against the Phillies in

> Citizens Bank Park.

>

> Your post indicates that you believe that the simulator takes into

> account the quality of competition a pitcher had in real life.  It

> doesn't.

Well, the Nationals' offense isn't actually that bad, so your examle isn't

the best.  But the sim does NOT compensate for quality of competition or for

the place where the stats were accrued when calculating your team's

results.  If he pitches a shutout in Coors Field, or Yankees Stadium,

against a great offense, it will be treated just the same as if he shut out

the Padres in Petco, and the ONLY adjustment to those numbers will be based

on the quality of his Scoresheet opponent.



On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Derek Hiemforth <derek@...>wrote:



>

>

> So you're telling me that if Tim Lincecum pitches a shutout against

> the Nationals, then he's equally likely to pitch a shutout against the

> toughest lineup in my Scoresheet BL league? And if that's not what

> you're telling me, then you misunderstood my post.

>

> - Derek

>

> On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:32 AM, kwarrenca wrote:

>

> > Who a pitcher faced in real life and the park they pitched in is

> > totally irrelevant.

> >

> > The simulator treats a game in PETCO Park against the Nationals

> > exactly the same as it treats a game against the Phillies in

> > Citizens Bank Park.

> >

> > Your post indicates that you believe that the simulator takes into

> > account the quality of competition a pitcher had in real life. It

> > doesn't.

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Ian Thistle wrote:

> the ONLY adjustment to those numbers will be based

> on the quality of his Scoresheet opponent.





And that's the only adjustment I was ever talking about.  :-)



- Derek

Not quite, but close.  The strength of the real life lineup faced by a

pitcher is irrelevent for scoresheet purposes.  That having been said, Timmy

goes 9 against the Nationals and gives up 3 hits and 1 run, the best lineup

in scoresheet is likely to fare better.  That's the All-Star effect at

work.  It just doesn't matter who Timmy put his line up against.



On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Derek Hiemforth <derek@...>wrote:



>

>

> So you're telling me that if Tim Lincecum pitches a shutout against

> the Nationals, then he's equally likely to pitch a shutout against the

> toughest lineup in my Scoresheet BL league? And if that's not what

> you're telling me, then you misunderstood my post.

>

> - Derek

>

> On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:32 AM, kwarrenca wrote:

>

> > Who a pitcher faced in real life and the park they pitched in is

> > totally irrelevant.

> >

> > The simulator treats a game in PETCO Park against the Nationals

> > exactly the same as it treats a game against the Phillies in

> > Citizens Bank Park.

> >

> > Your post indicates that you believe that the simulator takes into

> > account the quality of competition a pitcher had in real life. It

> > doesn't.

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Paul Finkelstein wrote:

> Not quite, but close.  The strength of the real life lineup faced by a

> pitcher is irrelevent for scoresheet purposes.



But it's not irrelevant for real-life purposes.  How well a pitcher

fares in Scoresheet is going to be based on:



1.  His pitching results that week (raw results, not adjusted for

caliber of opposition, run environment, etc.)

2.  The batting results of his SS opposition that week.



True, the sim doesn't discount his pitching results in any way based

on who he faced.  I didn't say it does.  The point is simply that --

in real-world terms -- it will be easier for him to rack up good

pitching results to feed into SS if he's facing a weak offense in real

life that week.



- Derek

you wrote:



"So Joe Pitcher pitched 8 innings IRL and only gave up one run while

striking out 9 and walking 1. That's great. But if he was facing the

Nationals IRL, and facing a lineup of hot hitters in Scoresheet, he's

not necessarily going to get the same results."



"if Joe Pitcher performed in Scoresheet the same as he did against a

weak-hitting real-life team, wouldn't that just mean the sim was broken in the

other direction?"





You seem to be inferring that the quality of a pitcher's major league opposition

has something to do with how he will do in his Scoresheet game.  I think people

should understand that this is not the case.



Joe Pitcher will pitch against an average Scoresheet team exactly as he did

against a weak-hitting real-life team.



It's totally irrelevant who Lincecum pitched his real life shutout against.  He

could have pitched a shutout against a bunch of minor league call-ups in PETCO

Park or he could have pitched a shutout against the Phillies in Citizen Bank

Park.  His Scoresheet performance will be the same in either circumstance.



The simulator is not even aware of who Lincecum faced in real life.  The quality

of his major league opposition plays no role whatsoever in what he can be

expected to do in Scoresheet.



"He is equally likely to pitch a shutout against the toughest lineup in your

Scoresheet league", regardless of whom he shutout in real life.













--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hiemforth <derek@...> wrote:

>

> So you're telling me that if Tim Lincecum pitches a shutout against

> the Nationals, then he's equally likely to pitch a shutout against the

> toughest lineup in my Scoresheet BL league?  And if that's not what

> you're telling me, then you misunderstood my post.

>

> - Derek

>

>

> On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:32 AM, kwarrenca wrote:

>

> > Who a pitcher faced in real life and the park they pitched in is

> > totally irrelevant.

> >

> > The simulator treats a game in PETCO Park against the Nationals

> > exactly the same as it treats a game against the Phillies in

> > Citizens Bank Park.

> >

> > Your post indicates that you believe that the simulator takes into

> > account the quality of competition a pitcher had in real life.  It

> > doesn't.

>

I think I was muddling the issue by mentioning who he faced in real

life.  It isn't really relevant (and I knew it didn't affect the

sim)... I guess I was just mentioning it to illustrate my point that

real-life teams' lineups are weaker overall than Scoresheet teams'

lineups are.



We're really comparing apples and oranges.  You're noting (correctly,

of course) that regardless of whether he shutout the Phillies or the

Padres in real life, either was equally likely to net him a shutout in

Scoresheet.  My point was just that he's less likely to throw a

shutout in Scoresheet than he is to throw a shutout in real life.



- Derek





On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:32 PM, kwarrenca wrote:



> you wrote:

>

> "So Joe Pitcher pitched 8 innings IRL and only gave up one run while

> striking out 9 and walking 1. That's great. But if he was facing the

> Nationals IRL, and facing a lineup of hot hitters in Scoresheet, he's

> not necessarily going to get the same results."

>

> "if Joe Pitcher performed in Scoresheet the same as he did against a

> weak-hitting real-life team, wouldn't that just mean the sim was

> broken in the other direction?"

>

>

> You seem to be inferring that the quality of a pitcher's major

> league opposition has something to do with how he will do in his

> Scoresheet game.  I think people should understand that this is not

> the case.

>

> Joe Pitcher will pitch against an average Scoresheet team exactly as

> he did against a weak-hitting real-life team.

>

> It's totally irrelevant who Lincecum pitched his real life shutout

> against.  He could have pitched a shutout against a bunch of minor

> league call-ups in PETCO Park or he could have pitched a shutout

> against the Phillies in Citizen Bank Park.  His Scoresheet

> performance will be the same in either circumstance.

>

> The simulator is not even aware of who Lincecum faced in real life.

> The quality of his major league opposition plays no role whatsoever

> in what he can be expected to do in Scoresheet.

>

> "He is equally likely to pitch a shutout against the toughest lineup

> in your Scoresheet league", regardless of whom he shutout in real

> life.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hiemforth <derek@...>

> wrote:

>>

>> So you're telling me that if Tim Lincecum pitches a shutout against

>> the Nationals, then he's equally likely to pitch a shutout against

>> the

>> toughest lineup in my Scoresheet BL league?  And if that's not what

>> you're telling me, then you misunderstood my post.

>>

>> - Derek

>>

>>

>> On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:32 AM, kwarrenca wrote:

>>

>>> Who a pitcher faced in real life and the park they pitched in is

>>> totally irrelevant.

>>>

>>> The simulator treats a game in PETCO Park against the Nationals

>>> exactly the same as it treats a game against the Phillies in

>>> Citizens Bank Park.

>>>

>>> Your post indicates that you believe that the simulator takes into

>>> account the quality of competition a pitcher had in real life.  It

>>> doesn't.

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> List owners:  brian@..., grum@...,

phfinkelstein@...

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

From Carl (origianl poster)

I think my original post got lost in the various translations. Derek and otehrs

have made some very astute observations though.



What I was trying to ask, in general, does it really make any material

difference in Scoresheet game to match pitchers up or are we better off to leave

that up to the way the SIMM matches pitchers up week to week.?



On the surface, it makes sense that it would should make a difference. However,

the BA/OBA/Slugging adjustments made when leftys face LH batters seems much

greater than when Rightys face RH batters, so I tend to look for matchups when

the other team's best hitters are leftys and don't think the adjustments are

materially enough to do RH pitcher vs RH hitters matchups unless I am playing a

powerful team (even if they are loaded with predominantly RH hitters) whom I

want someone like Lincecum to start against.



If I'm playing a weaker team, I will typically use my 4th and 5th best starters.

That, in itself, may be why I seem to lose more games against teams that I think

my team should roll over.



So the question is??  If you DO NOT use any pitcher ..Prefer to Face teams..how

does the SIMM determine which specific pitcher would pitch vs Team A and which

pitcher would pitch vs Team B?  Does it start each week with pitcher # 1 and

then to go # 2 and then # 3 and so forth? If so, would anything be effected

(either positively or negatively) by changing the order of your pitching

rotation each week, say moving your # 1 (say Lincecum as an example) one week,

to # 3 another week, and then back to # 1 another?



Since I suppose teams can look at other team's starting rotation orders, they

can try to match up specific pitcher vs specific pitcher matchups to their

advantage by not matching their best pitcher up as # 1 (maybe using their worst)

when Lincecum starts.  Maybe their best pitcher is slotted as # 2 or # 3 so they

dont have to matchup vs Lincecum and just write that one game off by using their

worst pitcher in the # 1 slot.



But if the SIMM doesn't follow any particular order of starters when playing out

games, then that would not have any bearing. If it does, then I think it would.

Wouldn't it?  Anyone have any thoughts?



And in a typical 6 game week, if three pitchers get two starts in Real Baseball,

if you DO NOT use pitching matchup preference, how does the Scoresheet SIMM

decide which of those 3 pitchers gets that 6th game in Scoresheet game?



Carl

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



"kwarrenca" <kenwarren77@...> wrote:

>

> you wrote:

>

> "So Joe Pitcher pitched 8 innings IRL and only gave up one run while

> striking out 9 and walking 1. That's great. But if he was facing the

> Nationals IRL, and facing a lineup of hot hitters in Scoresheet, he's

> not necessarily going to get the same results."

>

> "if Joe Pitcher performed in Scoresheet the same as he did against a

weak-hitting real-life team, wouldn't that just mean the sim was broken in the

other direction?"

>

>

> You seem to be inferring that the quality of a pitcher's major league

opposition has something to do with how he will do in his Scoresheet game.  I

think people should understand that this is not the case.

>

> Joe Pitcher will pitch against an average Scoresheet team exactly as he did

against a weak-hitting real-life team.

>

> It's totally irrelevant who Lincecum pitched his real life shutout against. 

He could have pitched a shutout against a bunch of minor league call-ups in

PETCO Park or he could have pitched a shutout against the Phillies in Citizen

Bank Park.  His Scoresheet performance will be the same in either circumstance.

>

> The simulator is not even aware of who Lincecum faced in real life.  The

quality of his major league opposition plays no role whatsoever in what he can

be expected to do in Scoresheet.

>

> "He is equally likely to pitch a shutout against the toughest lineup in your

Scoresheet league", regardless of whom he shutout in real life.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hiemforth <derek@> wrote:

> >

> > So you're telling me that if Tim Lincecum pitches a shutout against

> > the Nationals, then he's equally likely to pitch a shutout against the

> > toughest lineup in my Scoresheet BL league?  And if that's not what

> > you're telling me, then you misunderstood my post.

> >

> > - Derek

> >

> >

> > On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:32 AM, kwarrenca wrote:

> >

> > > Who a pitcher faced in real life and the park they pitched in is

> > > totally irrelevant.

> > >

> > > The simulator treats a game in PETCO Park against the Nationals

> > > exactly the same as it treats a game against the Phillies in

> > > Citizens Bank Park.

> > >

> > > Your post indicates that you believe that the simulator takes into

> > > account the quality of competition a pitcher had in real life.  It

> > > doesn't.

> >

>

Couple of points...



The order you list your starters determines who gets any extra starts. So #1

will get the extra start if he has extra start available. If not #2 will get and

so on.



The order you list your starters has no bearing on the order they will appear in

a given week. Your #1 may get the 4th game of the week for instance.



For matchups, think about it like this. You face two teams and for simplicity

sake lets say one has a huge offensive week and the other has a poor hitting

week. Don't you think the sim will try and match up your starting pitchers who

got hit harder against the lineup that hit well? and vice versa, any of your

pitchers who threw great games will get to face the opposition with the weak

hitting. The sim can't make everything work out as well as it does in general

without some kind of manipulation. It's not random.







--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <togatx@...> wrote:

>

> From Carl (origianl poster)

> I think my original post got lost in the various translations. Derek and

otehrs have made some very astute observations though.

>

> What I was trying to ask, in general, does it really make any material

difference in Scoresheet game to match pitchers up or are we better off to leave

that up to the way the SIMM matches pitchers up week to week.?

>

> On the surface, it makes sense that it would should make a difference.

However, the BA/OBA/Slugging adjustments made when leftys face LH batters seems

much greater than when Rightys face RH batters, so I tend to look for matchups

when the other team's best hitters are leftys and don't think the adjustments

are materially enough to do RH pitcher vs RH hitters matchups unless I am

playing a powerful team (even if they are loaded with predominantly RH hitters)

whom I want someone like Lincecum to start against.

>

> If I'm playing a weaker team, I will typically use my 4th and 5th best

starters.  That, in itself, may be why I seem to lose more games against teams

that I think my team should roll over.

>

> So the question is??  If you DO NOT use any pitcher ..Prefer to Face

teams..how does the SIMM determine which specific pitcher would pitch vs Team A

and which pitcher would pitch vs Team B?  Does it start each week with pitcher #

1 and then to go # 2 and then # 3 and so forth? If so, would anything be

effected (either positively or negatively) by changing the order of your

pitching rotation each week, say moving your # 1 (say Lincecum as an example)

one week, to # 3 another week, and then back to # 1 another?

>

> Since I suppose teams can look at other team's starting rotation orders, they

can try to match up specific pitcher vs specific pitcher matchups to their

advantage by not matching their best pitcher up as # 1 (maybe using their worst)

when Lincecum starts.  Maybe their best pitcher is slotted as # 2 or # 3 so they

dont have to matchup vs Lincecum and just write that one game off by using their

worst pitcher in the # 1 slot.

>

> But if the SIMM doesn't follow any particular order of starters when playing

out games, then that would not have any bearing. If it does, then I think it

would. Wouldn't it?  Anyone have any thoughts?

>

> And in a typical 6 game week, if three pitchers get two starts in Real

Baseball, if you DO NOT use pitching matchup preference, how does the Scoresheet

SIMM decide which of those 3 pitchers gets that 6th game in Scoresheet game?

>

> Carl

No no.  Some of this is very wrong.  The sim does not match bad pitching with

good opponents.  It is randomish with adjustment for prefer-to-face and not

allowing the same SP to go more than once against the same opponent.



Moreover, matching bad pitching to good hitting would accomplish absolutely

nothing toward matching stats.  This is something Jeff and Dave have explained

countless times on this list.



A pitcher who allowed double the league's batting average will allow about

double the batting average of every hitter he faces; a .200 hitter will hit .400

and a .400 hitter will hit .800.  Matching him to good hitting would in no way

help achieve the targets.



I am always so curious about where these assumptions come from. Did you think

you heard someplace that pitching assignments are manipulated to aid

stat-matching, or did you make that up on your own somehow?  We should try to be

careful about stating assumptions as statements.  There is always a lot of

confusion around how pitching is reconciled with hitting.



--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "bluechip_10" <bluechip_10@...> wrote:

>

> Couple of points...

>

> The order you list your starters determines who gets any extra starts. So #1

will get the extra start if he has extra start available. If not #2 will get and

so on.

>

> The order you list your starters has no bearing on the order they will appear

in a given week. Your #1 may get the 4th game of the week for instance.

>

> For matchups, think about it like this. You face two teams and for simplicity

sake lets say one has a huge offensive week and the other has a poor hitting

week. Don't you think the sim will try and match up your starting pitchers who

got hit harder against the lineup that hit well? and vice versa, any of your

pitchers who threw great games will get to face the opposition with the weak

hitting. The sim can't make everything work out as well as it does in general

without some kind of manipulation. It's not random.

>

>

>

> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <togatx@> wrote:

> >

> > From Carl (origianl poster)

> > I think my original post got lost in the various translations. Derek and

otehrs have made some very astute observations though.

> >

> > What I was trying to ask, in general, does it really make any material

difference in Scoresheet game to match pitchers up or are we better off to leave

that up to the way the SIMM matches pitchers up week to week.?

> >

> > On the surface, it makes sense that it would should make a difference.

However, the BA/OBA/Slugging adjustments made when leftys face LH batters seems

much greater than when Rightys face RH batters, so I tend to look for matchups

when the other team's best hitters are leftys and don't think the adjustments

are materially enough to do RH pitcher vs RH hitters matchups unless I am

playing a powerful team (even if they are loaded with predominantly RH hitters)

whom I want someone like Lincecum to start against.

> >

> > If I'm playing a weaker team, I will typically use my 4th and 5th best

starters.  That, in itself, may be why I seem to lose more games against teams

that I think my team should roll over.

> >

> > So the question is??  If you DO NOT use any pitcher ..Prefer to Face

teams..how does the SIMM determine which specific pitcher would pitch vs Team A

and which pitcher would pitch vs Team B?  Does it start each week with pitcher #

1 and then to go # 2 and then # 3 and so forth? If so, would anything be

effected (either positively or negatively) by changing the order of your

pitching rotation each week, say moving your # 1 (say Lincecum as an example)

one week, to # 3 another week, and then back to # 1 another?

> >

> > Since I suppose teams can look at other team's starting rotation orders,

they can try to match up specific pitcher vs specific pitcher matchups to their

advantage by not matching their best pitcher up as # 1 (maybe using their worst)

when Lincecum starts.  Maybe their best pitcher is slotted as # 2 or # 3 so they

dont have to matchup vs Lincecum and just write that one game off by using their

worst pitcher in the # 1 slot.

> >

> > But if the SIMM doesn't follow any particular order of starters when playing

out games, then that would not have any bearing. If it does, then I think it

would. Wouldn't it?  Anyone have any thoughts?

> >

> > And in a typical 6 game week, if three pitchers get two starts in Real

Baseball, if you DO NOT use pitching matchup preference, how does the Scoresheet

SIMM decide which of those 3 pitchers gets that 6th game in Scoresheet game?

> >

> > Carl

>

Ok, then why, unless the prefer to face option is used, would the order of

appearance for starters in a given week not follow the order they are listed?



Of course which starter is making the extra start would factor in but why

wouldn't it go for example 123451 or 234512 or 345123 etc if there is no

manipulation?





--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "garthhewitt" <garthhewitt@...> wrote:

>

> No no.  Some of this is very wrong.  The sim does not match bad pitching with

good opponents.  It is randomish with adjustment for prefer-to-face and not

allowing the same SP to go more than once against the same opponent.

>

Thank you for addressing this .. this is one of the unknowns I have always

wondered about in Scoresheet.



I get that one pitcher can't start agaisnt the same team twice in any week.

That's an understood.  But if you don't use thet PREFER To FACE option why would

the SIMM do anything but go 1.2.3.4.5..1.2, in say a typical week,..first though

seeing if pitcher #1 had a second start that week or enough innings?  Then just

go down the SP list in order to see which other pitcher had a second start



What if all 5 SPers pitched twice (not likely)?  What order would the SIMM

follow then for games 1-5, and then games 6 and 7?



Would the # of second starts any of the pitchers had in one week OVER-RIDE the

unused starts from a previous week?  As an example, Pitcher 1 pitches two games

of 17 innings in previous week, but only gets one start in Scoresheet..but then

in second week Pitcher 1 gets one start and Pitchers 4 and 5 get two. In that

week, if it were a 7 game week, would Both Pitcher 4 and 5 get that 6th and 7th

game start and override the unused start from pitcher a in previous week? Or

would the SIMM use the offensive stats of opponents in the 7 game week and 

attempt to match with the pitcher whose stats most closely matched up with their

offensive output. Does that make sense? Probably not.



Lastly, and I dont think anyone has answered this.  Is there any advantage

whatsoever of juggling the order of your starters from week to week if you use

the same 5 pitchers week in in and week out (assuming no injuries or DL time)

and  either use, or dont use, the PREFER TO FACE Option?



Carl





--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "bluechip_10" <bluechip_10@...> wrote:

>

> Ok, then why, unless the prefer to face option is used, would the order of

appearance for starters in a given week not follow the order they are listed?

>

> Of course which starter is making the extra start would factor in but why

wouldn't it go for example 123451 or 234512 or 345123 etc if there is no

manipulation?

>

>

> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "garthhewitt" <garthhewitt@> wrote:

> >

> > No no.  Some of this is very wrong.  The sim does not match bad pitching

with good opponents.  It is randomish with adjustment for prefer-to-face and not

allowing the same SP to go more than once against the same opponent.

> >

>

The answer to most of these questions were just covered last week in

the notes the Bartons included with your results.



For example, " ... 'carry-over' starts do count the same as real

starts when figuring out who should start twice for you in a week.

This means that if more than one pitcher has 2 starts available the

pitcher higher in your rotation gets two starts, except when a lower

listed pitcher is facing a team you have listed in his 'prefer to

face' column."



Two weeks ago, the fifth starter on on of my teams had two very good

starts, one of which was saved.  Since I realized that this week I was

facing two teams which are perhaps my chief competition in that league

for a playoff spot, I moved that pitcher up to the top of my rotation

for this week.







On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Carl<togatx@...> wrote:

> Thank you for addressing this .. this is one of the unknowns I have always

wondered about in Scoresheet.

>

> I get that one pitcher can't start agaisnt the same team twice in any week.

That's an understood.  But if you don't use thet PREFER To FACE option why would

the SIMM do anything but go 1.2.3.4.5..1.2, in say a typical week,..first though

seeing if pitcher #1 had a second start that week or enough innings?  Then just

go down the SP list in order to see which other pitcher had a second start

>

> What if all 5 SPers pitched twice (not likely)?  What order would the SIMM

follow then for games 1-5, and then games 6 and 7?

>

> Would the # of second starts any of the pitchers had in one week OVER-RIDE the

unused starts from a previous week?  As an example, Pitcher 1 pitches two games

of 17 innings in previous week, but only gets one start in Scoresheet..but then

in second week Pitcher 1 gets one start and Pitchers 4 and 5 get two. In that

week, if it were a 7 game week, would Both Pitcher 4 and 5 get that 6th and 7th

game start and override the unused start from pitcher a in previous week? Or

would the SIMM use the offensive stats of opponents in the 7 game week and

 attempt to match with the pitcher whose stats most closely matched up with

their offensive output. Does that make sense? Probably not.

>

> Lastly, and I dont think anyone has answered this.  Is there any advantage

whatsoever of juggling the order of your starters from week to week if you use

the same 5 pitchers week in in and week out (assuming no injuries or DL time)

and  either use, or dont use, the PREFER TO FACE Option?

>

> Carl

>

>

> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "bluechip_10" <bluechip_10@...> wrote:

>>

>> Ok, then why, unless the prefer to face option is used, would the order of

appearance for starters in a given week not follow the order they are listed?

>>

>> Of course which starter is making the extra start would factor in but why

wouldn't it go for example 123451 or 234512 or 345123 etc if there is no

manipulation?

>>

>>

>> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "garthhewitt" <garthhewitt@> wrote:

>> >

>> > No no.  Some of this is very wrong.  The sim does not match bad pitching

with good opponents.  It is randomish with adjustment for prefer-to-face and not

allowing the same SP to go more than once against the same opponent.

>> >

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> List owners:  brian@..., grum@...,

phfinkelstein@...

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

Ive had that situation come up several times but didnt make any changes. LMK if

that # 5 guys get two starts this week.  Even then, since this week has seven

games, I suppose it would depend on if you had others SPer who were #s 1-4 the

previous week also had two starts this week.



--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Shelby <sdshelby@...> wrote:

>

> The answer to most of these questions were just covered last week in

> the notes the Bartons included with your results.

>

> For example, " ... 'carry-over' starts do count the same as real

> starts when figuring out who should start twice for you in a week.

> This means that if more than one pitcher has 2 starts available the

> pitcher higher in your rotation gets two starts, except when a lower

> listed pitcher is facing a team you have listed in his 'prefer to

> face' column."

>

> Two weeks ago, the fifth starter on on of my teams had two very good

> starts, one of which was saved.  Since I realized that this week I was

> facing two teams which are perhaps my chief competition in that league

> for a playoff spot, I moved that pitcher up to the top of my rotation

> for this week.

>

>

>

> On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Carl<togatx@...> wrote:

> > Thank you for addressing this .. this is one of the unknowns I have always

wondered about in Scoresheet.

> >

> > I get that one pitcher can't start agaisnt the same team twice in any week.

That's an understood.  But if you don't use thet PREFER To FACE option why would

the SIMM do anything but go 1.2.3.4.5..1.2, in say a typical week,..first though

seeing if pitcher #1 had a second start that week or enough innings?  Then just

go down the SP list in order to see which other pitcher had a second start

> >

> > What if all 5 SPers pitched twice (not likely)?  What order would the SIMM

follow then for games 1-5, and then games 6 and 7?

> >

> > Would the # of second starts any of the pitchers had in one week OVER-RIDE

the unused starts from a previous week?  As an example, Pitcher 1 pitches two

games of 17 innings in previous week, but only gets one start in Scoresheet..but

then in second week Pitcher 1 gets one start and Pitchers 4 and 5 get two. In

that week, if it were a 7 game week, would Both Pitcher 4 and 5 get that 6th and

7th game start and override the unused start from pitcher a in previous week? Or

would the SIMM use the offensive stats of opponents in the 7 game week and

 attempt to match with the pitcher whose stats most closely matched up with

their offensive output. Does that make sense? Probably not.

> >

> > Lastly, and I dont think anyone has answered this.  Is there any advantage

whatsoever of juggling the order of your starters from week to week if you use

the same 5 pitchers week in in and week out (assuming no injuries or DL time)

and  either use, or dont use, the PREFER TO FACE Option?

> >

> > Carl

> >

> >

> > --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "bluechip_10" <bluechip_10@> wrote:

> >>

> >> Ok, then why, unless the prefer to face option is used, would the order of

appearance for starters in a given week not follow the order they are listed?

> >>

> >> Of course which starter is making the extra start would factor in but why

wouldn't it go for example 123451 or 234512 or 345123 etc if there is no

manipulation?

> >>

> >>

> >> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "garthhewitt" <garthhewitt@> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > No no.  Some of this is very wrong.  The sim does not match bad pitching

with good opponents.  It is randomish with adjustment for prefer-to-face and not

allowing the same SP to go more than once against the same opponent.

> >> >

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > List owners:  brian@..., grum@..., phfinkelstein@...

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

Which pitcher starts which game is randomly generated, within the constraint

that a pitcher can't start twice against the same team in one week, and the

"prefer to face" tends to mean that a particular pitcher will be far more likely

to face that particular team than any other team.



I don't think I would call random generation, "manipulation".





--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "bluechip_10" <bluechip_10@...> wrote:

>



> Of course which starter is making the extra start would factor in but why

wouldn't it go for example 123451 or 234512 or 345123 etc if there is no

manipulation?

>

>

I thought it meant he WILL face that team, not is MORE Likely to face"

Is that not correct?



If I understand it correctly, one poster mentioned something about his # 5

getting two really good starts last week, so he changed his # 5 last week to # 1

thinking this week he would then get two starts for sure this week (July 5-12)

and his good banked start from his # 5 (now changed to # 1) would definitely

count this week and he would get two starts for sure from that guys with one of

them guaranteed to be good.



Does it work like that?

Carl

.............................



--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "kwarrenca" <kenwarren77@...> wrote:

>

> Which pitcher starts which game is randomly generated, within the constraint

that a pitcher can't start twice against the same team in one week, and the

"prefer to face" tends to mean that a particular pitcher will be far more likely

to face that particular team than any other team.

>

> I don't think I would call random generation, "manipulation".

  is no manipulation?

Carl, you confused a couple of issues. Steve was saying he's sure about his #1

guy getting two starts.  Ken was saying the SP is more likely to be assigned to

a give ptf team.  It's "Whether" to start versus who to start against.  I'm

pretty sure Steve and Ken are both right about how the program makes each of

those discrete decisions.





--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <togatx@...> wrote:

>

> I thought it meant he WILL face that team, not is MORE Likely to face"

> Is that not correct?

>

> If I understand it correctly, one poster mentioned something about his # 5

getting two really good starts last week, so he changed his # 5 last week to # 1

thinking this week he would then get two starts for sure this week (July 5-12)

and his good banked start from his # 5 (now changed to # 1) would definitely

count this week and he would get two starts for sure from that guys with one of

them guaranteed to be good.

>

> Does it work like that?

> Carl

> .............................

>

> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "kwarrenca" <kenwarren77@> wrote:

> >

> > Which pitcher starts which game is randomly generated, within the constraint

that a pitcher can't start twice against the same team in one week, and the

"prefer to face" tends to mean that a particular pitcher will be far more likely

to face that particular team than any other team.

> >

> > I don't think I would call random generation, "manipulation".

>  is no manipulation?

>

I'm not sure where, in one of the instructions, the weekly notes or here, Jeff

or Dave explained that they didn't want #1 pitchers facing the other number ones

each and every week.  Remember that at the time the algorithms were written, the

instructions came by mail and owners made very few changes.  In other words, the

order was never locked to the ranking because the Bartons thought their game

would be more fun with the order changing each week.



--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "bluechip_10" <bluechip_10@...> wrote:

>

> Ok, then why, unless the prefer to face option is used, would the order of

appearance for starters in a given week not follow the order they are listed?

>

> Of course which starter is making the extra start would factor in but why

wouldn't it go for example 123451 or 234512 or 345123 etc if there is no

manipulation?

>

>

> --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "garthhewitt" <garthhewitt@> wrote:

> >

> > No no.  Some of this is very wrong.  The sim does not match bad pitching

with good opponents.  It is randomish with adjustment for prefer-to-face and not

allowing the same SP to go more than once against the same opponent.

> >

>

Carryover stats should NOT have affected Paulino's crappy appearance for you; it

appears to be a case, as best I can tell, of the fact that some randomness (bad

'dice roll') occurs, and you got bit badly. But the luck balancing should help

you; his future scoresheet stats (maybe in tonight's games!) should be BETTER

than his MLB ones, as his ERA for you in NL322 is 6.87, as compared to his MLB

ERA of 5.55. So no, I don't think there is any tweaking you need to do on your

lineup card. In the short-term, stuff happens, but in the long-term, it tends to

even out.



OTOH.... I count 9 pitchers who have tossed most of your innings. Most are on

track to match their MLB stats closely, with Pualino being the ugly exception.

But your Cole Hamels is almost a run per game BETTER than the Phillies' Hamels.

Ditto for Kazmir. Ditto for Nunez. Your Perez is more than one pt of ERA better

than his MLB ##s, and Mike Gonzzlez is practically untouchable on your team, an

ERA of about HALF of his in real life. So I suspect your staff is due to get

roughed up real soon, solely due to your hurlers having been VERY lucky so far.

Unless you've faced unusually poor hitting so far this year.



   Tom





--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <togatx@...> wrote:

>

> Yes I get he has been brutal but THIS Particular week Paulino ONLY only

pitched in real baseball as a starter in one 7 inning performance in which he

gave up 3 hits, no walks, nine Ks and one earned run. I haven't checked but I

think he got into two game for me this past week in Scoresheet and pitched 3

innings gvign up 3 earned runs in th oen innign in th first game (comign as my #

5 guy out of pen)  I thought carryforward stats only came into play when a

particular player had unused innings from previous weeks and needed those. If I

guy pitches 7 innings in real baseball in a week does the SIMM still use

provious stats from prior weeks?

>

> So am I missing something? Because if the SIMM does go back and average

previous terribly pitching performances might as well bench a guy who started

the season horribly for the remainder of year and Never use him again..

>

> > --- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "soxknation" wrote:

> > >

> > > well Carl, since Paulino hadn't pitched in a few weeks prior, & you prob.

had him in back then or prior anyway?: I'd say it's a combined stat result. He's

been brutal other than that 1 outing?

> > >

> > >

> > >  Date  IP  ERA(on date)

> > >

> > >  Jun 27 7.0  5.51

> > >  Jun 7  1.2  6.18

> >

>

Shhhhh. People only want to point at the sim when they think they're getting

screwed over. Conversely, when players are overacheiving in scoresheet, it's due

to the expert managing skills of the owner, not good fortune....







--- In scoresheet-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hanrahan" <Han60Man@...> wrote:

>

>

> OTOH.... I count 9 pitchers who have tossed most of your innings. Most are on

track to match their MLB stats closely, with Pualino being the ugly exception.

But your Cole Hamels is almost a run per game BETTER than the Phillies' Hamels.

Ditto for Kazmir. Ditto for Nunez. Your Perez is more than one pt of ERA better

than his MLB ##s, and Mike Gonzzlez is practically untouchable on your team, an

ERA of about HALF of his in real life. So I suspect your staff is due to get

roughed up real soon, solely due to your hurlers having been VERY lucky so far.

Unless you've faced unusually poor hitting so far this year.

>

>   Tom

>

>