Decades of training very important in understanding concepts; within kata. Let
alone the PP possibly used as well. Only proper knowledge for ones with Spirit,
Heart, Sole and Life into their martial art. All Martial arts are great, it is
the practitioner, nothing more.

I had almost started to explain or bring PP points to address. Never know
what age individuals or attitudes on web list. This group has some great
individuals with proper understanding what arts are for. Develop ones awarness
and abilities beyond typical individual.

Charles




--- In sabaki@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Miller <bemiller@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2009, at 11:07 AM, Hank Prohm wrote:
>
> > With this group, and this discussion, I'd like to limit the
> > responders to:
> >
> > 1. Experts......this means someone with at LEAST ten years of
> > experience and 10,000 bits of information to share. If your teacher
> > didn't teach you the keys to kata or, if you couldn't find them on
> > line or figure them out for yourself: ask questions but don't waste
> > my time telling me how kata doesn't work, is obsolete, etc.
>
> not sure I consider myself an expert ... am older than most dirt (>40
> in martial arts) and have been in a "few" serious "scuffles" and have
> worked with PP and the like for many years but I hope I am still
> learning and will continue to ... so really don't (personally) like
> the term of expert ...
>
> some times the question of my beginning students make me think the
> most - re-examining what I think I know .. and thus frequently
> improving ... so IMHO experts only may not be the best limiting factor
> >
> > 2. People who understand that there is "real" fighting and there is
> > recreational fighting and that ANY system that has any set of rules
> > is fighting for fun and profit and not for survival because any
> > survival fighter is going to immediately go outside that rule set to
> > take your lunch and eat it....and possibly your face while they are
> > at it.
>
> agree ... it is not a dance .. it is war! and there is really one
> rule ... win or go home in a box ... have no time for people who have
> never been there and think it is some sort of movie fight ... get
> what .. as good as you think you are .. it is NOT going to go down
> like it does in the dojo ... no matter how much you train ... so you
> had better be able to adapt on the fly ... take a hit and deliver
> techniques that change the fight (meaning not just producing pain) or
> you are going to have a REALLY BAD day ...
> >
> > So, assuming we are survival fighting, lets look at first principles:
> >
> > A. Destroy his plan. Every attacker has an idea in his head about
> > what he wants to do to your precious body. Your first job is to hit
> > the reset button on his brain and send that plan to limbo.
> > Disabling his strong hand/arm is a very good beginning.
> >
>
> agree completely ... exactly what I meant when I used the term
> protect ... you HAVE to stop them - immediately!
> >
> > B. Having taken control, decide the level of damage you wish to
> > inflict.
> >
> >
> > Every traditional karate move has at least three applications:
> > incapacitate, damage, kill being he basic three. More subtle ones
> > depend on the style and the practitioner.
> >
> > My chief gripe with the Kenpo based systems is that they tend to be
> > binary in their applications: either kill or not-kill, with no
> > middle ground.
>
> well that is IMHO a fault of the newer katas ... MOST but not all of
> the older ones give you the option of stopping at a KO or choke out
> position ... now I do not believe for a minute that they intended that
> but today that is an important decision ... and they way they are
> designed you do have the option (yes I know several techniques from
> fighting katas that don't give that option but most all do) ... bottom
> line I agree with you
> >
> > You should decide whether you are going to give your drunken brother
> > in law a black eye or rip his arm off, not have the art you practice
> > do it for you.\
>
> I could not agree more ... for both MORAL and legal reasons ... you
> can guarantee that if you kill someone that you are going to have a
> huge pack of trouble and even if you win it will be expensive ...
> while not exactly the same it is estimated that the average legal
> charges in a self defense shooting - WHEN it is decided that it was a
> matter of self defense STILL costs you at least $50,000.00 in legal
> defenses ... I am sure that there is not much difference in martial
> arts ... but admit that personally - luckily I have not been in a
> situation to know
>
> so yes this is a rule that can handicap you but it is not an absolute
> handicap because I (like most) would do what ever needs to be done ...
> but if avoidable would not kill or Quad a person ... without reason
> that is ...
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Hank Prohm
>
> thanks for you comments .. it makes me think
> >
> Bruce
>