On Jul 9, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Tom Ross wrote:

> In the spirit of hopefully getting a good conversation going i've
> some thoughts as well.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hank Prohm
> To: sabaki@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 1:56 PM
> Subject: [sabaki] Grappling/striking/pressure points
>
>
>
>
>
> Since it's been a while since we've had a good conversation about
> fighting, let's back up a bit and review our common assumptions:
>
> 1. The basic paradigm should be: Move, block, counter, with
> movement of the target always being a first priority. If you take a
> look at kata, you will see that all of the "traditional" kata start
> with these premises.
>
>
>
> *******No arguement here...however there are many who do not know
> this, do not receive indepth instructions as to the potential of
> their own forms and or are forced to figure things out completely by
> themselves. Lacking any practical real world experience you must
> admit there are some pretty far fetched things being taught out
> there! :-) TR
>
> 2. Lumans First Law of the Martial Arts (Broken Bones HURT!) is
> always in effect. The best application of a pressure point strike is
> to hit the spot hard enough to activate the point and destroy any
> bones in the area. This strategy guarantees that everyone is a
> responder.
>
> ****No offense but i'm not completely sure on this one. I have seen
> people continue to fight with broken bones and some pretty wild
> serious injuries in the course of my career in law Enforcement. Sure
> they felt likely felt pain afterward (whether they admitted it or
> not) but the adrenalin and endorphins or sheer anger and
> determination or what have you kept them going and only two I can
> think of were on drugs. TR

NOt true ... if you ever have to deal with someone that is high on
drugs like Meth or PCP or is seriously mentally ill then you will
KNOW (or learn) very quickly that this is not even close to true ..,
many of these people continue to attack regardless of the pain they
SHOULD be in - meaning that compound fractures do NOT STOP THEM
>
> 3. Properly done, using short power, knowledge of physiology and
> anatomy, etc. a grapple IS a pressure point strike, is a hit. That's
> why you spend all those years becoming an "expert" so that you can
> use short power, fajing, internal energy and all that cool stuff.
> This might seem like hocus pocus to the guys who've only been waving
> their hands and feet about for a couple of years, but someone who's
> been training for 20-30 or 40 years should be able to put his or her
> hands on the their attacker and break their ribs without pulling
> their hands back.
>
> **** I agree with whole heartedly in principle but to paraphase my
> teacher, I think it's not the number of years one has been training
> but the quality of the hours put into said training. I live not all
> that far from a fellow (unnamed) who has spent many many years in
> Karate and working and teaching pressure points , only to get
> seriously embaressed on national geographic. So in essence I
> respectfully agree with you Hank but i''l emphysize the "properly
> done" part of your comments to others on the list. :-) TR
>
> Finally, a comment about how people react to attacks: I have been
> in fights, under gun fire, in auto accidents and my heart and
> adrenelin never go nuts until AFTER the event. I've never lost fine
> motor control or an awareness of what was going on, the tunnel
> vision they talk about. Only some people panic under pressure.
> Others go into survival mode and have the panic attack afterwards.
>
> *****With all Honesty, ya know it's strange. I know it doesn't
> sound Macho but I partially agree with the writer of the article,
> and you as well.
>
> Speaking from personal experience. The first altercation I ever had
> (I mean serious , not school yard nonsense) was as a young man in my
> 20's on Rikers Island. I did in fact have tunnel vision.. I began to
> notice that Incidents which just occured spontaneously didn't give
> me enough time to think and worry about my safety. Those which
> followed a long verbal discussion, heated arguement or threats
> sometimes did. Strangely I began to notice as time went on, the
> more I was forced into positions of having to use force the less
> nervous I was. I became more relaxed and functioned more naturally
> and smoothly, until it was only really an after thought and
> sometimes not even then (as you mention) but it was a personal
> evolution or sorts, if that makes sense?
>
> So personally I think it is a matter of experience and realizing
> confidence in ones self and that they will come out of things ok,
> that allows our brain to smoothly apply and utilize our training as
> the super computer it can be, Or it could just be a lack of common
> sense on my part! :-)

Tom you are completely right .. as long as OUR brains can utilize an
effective coping strategy it does not succumb to adrenaline ...
however if you give the adrenaline enough time to build or after the
episode is over ... well the adrenaline is there ...

and yes repetitive training does give the brain the answer it needs at
that moment in time ... I have and article I can post in a bit that
explains more details about adrenaline coping techniques and why we
sometime are not affected and other times are

Bruce
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> Regards,
>
> Tom R
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