Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

The thing that I don't like is that A it sucks to what watch ,and B all this is
gonna do is make another 6 page amendment to the WFTDA rule set , so while it
worked this time a year from now this will all be different ! I watch all these
games in person and just an fyi oly kicked ass without doing this at all !

Hillbilly Hellcat
Dutchland Rollers

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, "skidmarkssrg" <skidmarkssrg@...>
wrote:
>
> i think a big point has been missed, in which i like about what denver did ,
is that it was a multi bout weekend , if they could progress to the next round
by winning a bout with stratey that does not wear otu your players , very very
smart thing to do ,,,,
>
> my 2 cents
>
> mark
> sun state roller girls
>
> --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, "qwystn" <qwystn@> wrote:
> >
> > we've been playing a 'wolves and gazelles' type game with my new league for
the last couple of months and it has totally changed the way we play. Prior to
that, we had played with creating slow packs when we had a powerjam, but nothing
as slow as really trapping a gazelle...we're now calling the trapped Gazelle a
'Carcass':) ...and now that we are rally using the 'trap a carcass' method, it
has revolutionised our game. Same goes for goading the opposition into a mega
fast pack...it's ace to watch such brilliant pack control and above all:
Teamwork!
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Kingan <sarahdoom@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Its pretty hard to initiate a block from a strict standstill, you at least
> > > have to take a step, which makes it legal. The most effective use of this
> > > strategy in a power jam is to trap one member of the other team and
> > > completely stop on the track while your jammer laps the pack and racks up
> > > points. Under this scenario, you've defined the pack and the trapped
skater
> > > ("goat") has a really tough time breaking through that wall of the other
> > > team. I still don't understand why teams play a stopped back when both
> > > jammers are on the track (except to exploit a team who doesn't have a
> > > counter strategy for it.) As a fan and skater, I find this boring to watch
> > > because it effectively looks like a mosh pit on skates. A bunch of skaters
> > > hitting each other, stepping around, and falling. I personally think for
the
> > > sake of the game (esp for spectators), you should be required to have
> > > forward momentum in order to engage in any kind of game play (including
> > > positional blocking). As for not skating off the line, if an entire team
> > > remains stationary, and the other team starts skating at the whistle, you
> > > will soon have a no pack situation. One way to counteract is to hit down
all
> > > the members of the other team, and then you can become the pack because
they
> > > are all out of play. But again, this is a mosh pit on roller skates, not
> > > roller derby.
> > >
> > > To me, the only time a stopped pack makes sense is in a power jam
situation,
> > > and its fantastic to watch it done effectively. So sooner or later, teams
> > > will learn to counteract a stopped pack when both jammers are on the track
> > > and hopefully this strategy will go away. Or the rules will be revised to
> > > ban it. The skaters on Denver are fantastic skaters and great athletes,
I'd
> > > rather see them win a game based on athleticism rather than a clever
> > > interpretation of the rules.
> > >
> > > Sarah Doom
> > > Coach, Roc City Roller Derby
> > > Founder, Providence Roller Derby, Boston Derby Dames
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 5:59 AM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I always thought that you couldn't block from a standstill. It was my
> > > > impression you had to be 'stepping or skating' in order to block. 5.1.3
in
> > > > WFTDA 4.0 states that you cannot be at a standstill to block. So were
the
> > > > Refs just not judging this harshly enough at the start of the tourney,
and
> > > > then realised they would have to start calling it to the letter?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I love the slowing strategy but I always thought you had to maintain a
> > > > > forward motion to block.
> > > > >
> > > > > They did have a rules clarification regarding Denver's stopping. "They
> > > > > cannot block from a standstill." That is what it should have been from
> > > > the
> > > > > beginning. But this rule was put into effect during the tourney.
> > > > > I feel bad for Denver and the teams that were beaten by them. If only
> > > > this
> > > > > was clarified at the beginning then things may have transpired
> > > > differently
> > > > > and Denver wouldn't be booed for being creative.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rule questions:
> > > > > -If one team doesn't move at the whistle and the other does, does the
> > > > jammer
> > > > > whistle blow?
> > > > > -If yes, why would refs start play without a pack?
> > > > > -If the one team that moves catches back up to the team that has not
> > > > moved
> > > > > initially (lapping them) are they a pack when together?
> > > > > -How does the previous scenario affect scoring?
> > > > >
> > > > > These questions may sound stupid but are possible questions if a team
> > > > were
> > > > > to take the loop hole in these rules further.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sloppatola
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Oh, I see what you mean now about whole teams not starting on the
> > > > whistle
> > > > > > (just saw it happen in the Rocky Mountain/Texas game). Yeah that
kinda
> > > > > > sucks. I didn't see the Denver game you were referring to, so just
> > > > thought
> > > > > > you meant stopping on the track to create slow packs, or skating
> > > > clockwise
> > > > > > after you've blocked someone out. I reckon what you are referring to
> > > > will
> > > > > > probably be clarified in the next ruleset. No one wants a game where
no
> > > > > > skating occurs :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It does have a strong danger factor to it. Especially if your not
> > > > > > expecting
> > > > > > > a team to do it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In regards to "breaking the pack". If one team stays put and the
> > > > other
> > > > > > > continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is
> > > > breaking
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > pack. Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if
> > > > > > properly
> > > > > > > penalized. This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving
> > > > and
> > > > > > thus
> > > > > > > a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy. A
very
> > > > > > boring
> > > > > > > game could be won by a score of 3-2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in
this
> > > > area
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > they have done in other areas. Reminds me of the NBA's necessity
for
> > > > a
> > > > > > 24
> > > > > > > second clock.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will
> > > > drastically
> > > > > > > effect the sport. Justified or not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sloppatola
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@
> > > > > > ...>wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE,
although
> > > > its
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that
> > > > > > concerns me
> > > > > > > > is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I
> > > > find
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but
> > > > its ok
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > return that way.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dr.Johnny Capote
> > > > > > > > Montreal
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@>* wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: Dommie <dommeenation@>
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
> > > > > > > > To:
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
> > > > > > > > blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on
that
> > > > > > > > player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far
as
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) .
> > > > However,
> > > > > > > > strategically, yes you should take her out :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > > > > > Arch Rival Rollergirl
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo. com<
> > > > > > http://mc/compose?to=riziz101%40yahoo.com>>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy
to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > game,
> > > > > > > > > while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way
to
> > > > > > counter
> > > > > > > > > act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty,
> > > > she is
> > > > > > > > > skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The
reason
> > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and
> > > > > > personally
> > > > > > > > > that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled
enough
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > skate
> > > > > > > > > back to back of pack to help your jammer without making
contact.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are
> > > > going to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3
or 4
> > > > > > that do
> > > > > > > > > will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team
> > > > just
> > > > > > stands
> > > > > > > > > there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot
> > > > goes to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > box.....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > hope that helps
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Corp. PunisHer
> > > > > > > > > DRB
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > > > > > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > > > > > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to
say
> > > > so.
> > > > > > ;)
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport
> > > > "flop"
> > > > > > > > (fake
> > > > > > > > >> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do
so
> > > > but
> > > > > > > > >> lacks
> > > > > > > > >> sportsmanship.
> > > > > > > > >> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but
both
> > > > are
> > > > > > > > within
> > > > > > > > >> the rules.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never
> > > > move
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2
> > > > minutes
> > > > > > > > expire?
> > > > > > > > >> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but
strategically
> > > > > > sound.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it
bores
> > > > me.
> > > > > > > > Just
> > > > > > > > >> my opinion.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Sloppatola
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is
legal
> > > > on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating
> > > > > > clockwise is
> > > > > > > > >> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating
clockwise
> > > > is
> > > > > > not.
> > > > > > > > So
> > > > > > > > >> > you
> > > > > > > > >> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing
wrong
> > > > with
> > > > > > > > >> > playing
> > > > > > > > >> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every
> > > > > > ruleset,
> > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > >> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or
> > > > just
> > > > > > > > 'clever
> > > > > > > > >> > use
> > > > > > > > >> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > > amazing
> > > > > > > > >> > how
> > > > > > > > >> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you
are
> > > > not
> > > > > > > > >> > practicing
> > > > > > > > >> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be
left
> > > > > > behind.
> > > > > > > > >> > What
> > > > > > > > >> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy?
You
> > > > have
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> > know
> > > > > > > > >> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive
is
> > > > by
> > > > > > > > >> > staying on
> > > > > > > > >> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be
'ruled
> > > > out'
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to
each
> > > > time
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > >> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the
pack'
> > > > > > rules, it
> > > > > > > > >> > has
> > > > > > > > >> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if
you
> > > > can
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > > > >> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't
> > > > just
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > >> > smashing people anymore.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness'
of
> > > > > > someone
> > > > > > > > >> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually
> > > > think
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > >> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that
work
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal
to
> > > > BE
> > > > > > HIT,
> > > > > > > > >> > so
> > > > > > > > >> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also
> > > > legit
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >> > hit,
> > > > > > > > >> > so knock 'em over!
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > > > > > > > >> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > > > > > > > >> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > > > > > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > > > > >> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about
these
> > > > > > > > strategies
> > > > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving
backwards,
> > > > > > > > >> > > clockwise,
> > > > > > > > >> > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > the track.
> > > > > > > > >> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see
Denver
> > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > >> > > this
> > > > > > > > >> > > often. What is the deal?
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly
> > > > implied
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as
> > > > they
> > > > > > may be
> > > > > > > > >> > pushed
> > > > > > > > >> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who
uses
> > > > these
> > > > > > > > >> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I
can't
> > > > > > help
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > >> > feel
> > > > > > > > >> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my
opinion.
> > > > If
> > > > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > > > >> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > What do ya'll think?
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Sloppatola
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > --
> > > > > > > > >> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > > > >> Somnambulate some don't
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > > > > > aka Kate Underwood
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > > > > > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized
for
> > > > > > Yahoo!
> > > > > > > > *Get it Now for Free!* <
> > > > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Postdoctoral Fellow
> > > Presgraves Laboratory
> > > Department of Biology
> > > University of Rochester
> > > Rochester, NY 14627
> > > Office: 585/275.4509
> > > Lab: 585/276.2183
> > >
> >
>

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Please pass out this info to your league.

THANK YOU,
~Hell Kat Thrasher
Shore Points Roller Derby NJ
Boardwalk Brawlers


Attention B/C skaters... we want you!!!

ALL male skaters regardless of skill level invited as well!

NEED REFS and NSOs, A skaters interested in helping outl!!

Come join the "B-Cup Brawl" tournament Saturday Dec. 5, 2009 in Egg Harbor, NJ.
It is your day to shine, show off your skills, meet girls and guys from all over
and most of all have FUN!!!

This tournament is under WFTDA ruleset and will feature full length bouts for
women as well as men. This is NOT a coed bout.

For more INFO and REGISTRATION visit:
http://shorepointsrollerderby.com/bcupbrawl

i think a big point has been missed, in which i like about what denver did , is
that it was a multi bout weekend , if they could progress to the next round by
winning a bout with stratey that does not wear otu your players , very very
smart thing to do ,,,,

my 2 cents

mark
sun state roller girls

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, "qwystn" <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> we've been playing a 'wolves and gazelles' type game with my new league for
the last couple of months and it has totally changed the way we play. Prior to
that, we had played with creating slow packs when we had a powerjam, but nothing
as slow as really trapping a gazelle...we're now calling the trapped Gazelle a
'Carcass':) ...and now that we are rally using the 'trap a carcass' method, it
has revolutionised our game. Same goes for goading the opposition into a mega
fast pack...it's ace to watch such brilliant pack control and above all:
Teamwork!
>
>
>
> --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Kingan <sarahdoom@> wrote:
> >
> > Its pretty hard to initiate a block from a strict standstill, you at least
> > have to take a step, which makes it legal. The most effective use of this
> > strategy in a power jam is to trap one member of the other team and
> > completely stop on the track while your jammer laps the pack and racks up
> > points. Under this scenario, you've defined the pack and the trapped skater
> > ("goat") has a really tough time breaking through that wall of the other
> > team. I still don't understand why teams play a stopped back when both
> > jammers are on the track (except to exploit a team who doesn't have a
> > counter strategy for it.) As a fan and skater, I find this boring to watch
> > because it effectively looks like a mosh pit on skates. A bunch of skaters
> > hitting each other, stepping around, and falling. I personally think for the
> > sake of the game (esp for spectators), you should be required to have
> > forward momentum in order to engage in any kind of game play (including
> > positional blocking). As for not skating off the line, if an entire team
> > remains stationary, and the other team starts skating at the whistle, you
> > will soon have a no pack situation. One way to counteract is to hit down all
> > the members of the other team, and then you can become the pack because they
> > are all out of play. But again, this is a mosh pit on roller skates, not
> > roller derby.
> >
> > To me, the only time a stopped pack makes sense is in a power jam situation,
> > and its fantastic to watch it done effectively. So sooner or later, teams
> > will learn to counteract a stopped pack when both jammers are on the track
> > and hopefully this strategy will go away. Or the rules will be revised to
> > ban it. The skaters on Denver are fantastic skaters and great athletes, I'd
> > rather see them win a game based on athleticism rather than a clever
> > interpretation of the rules.
> >
> > Sarah Doom
> > Coach, Roc City Roller Derby
> > Founder, Providence Roller Derby, Boston Derby Dames
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 5:59 AM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I always thought that you couldn't block from a standstill. It was my
> > > impression you had to be 'stepping or skating' in order to block. 5.1.3 in
> > > WFTDA 4.0 states that you cannot be at a standstill to block. So were the
> > > Refs just not judging this harshly enough at the start of the tourney, and
> > > then realised they would have to start calling it to the letter?
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I love the slowing strategy but I always thought you had to maintain a
> > > > forward motion to block.
> > > >
> > > > They did have a rules clarification regarding Denver's stopping. "They
> > > > cannot block from a standstill." That is what it should have been from
> > > the
> > > > beginning. But this rule was put into effect during the tourney.
> > > > I feel bad for Denver and the teams that were beaten by them. If only
> > > this
> > > > was clarified at the beginning then things may have transpired
> > > differently
> > > > and Denver wouldn't be booed for being creative.
> > > >
> > > > Rule questions:
> > > > -If one team doesn't move at the whistle and the other does, does the
> > > jammer
> > > > whistle blow?
> > > > -If yes, why would refs start play without a pack?
> > > > -If the one team that moves catches back up to the team that has not
> > > moved
> > > > initially (lapping them) are they a pack when together?
> > > > -How does the previous scenario affect scoring?
> > > >
> > > > These questions may sound stupid but are possible questions if a team
> > > were
> > > > to take the loop hole in these rules further.
> > > >
> > > > Sloppatola
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Oh, I see what you mean now about whole teams not starting on the
> > > whistle
> > > > > (just saw it happen in the Rocky Mountain/Texas game). Yeah that kinda
> > > > > sucks. I didn't see the Denver game you were referring to, so just
> > > thought
> > > > > you meant stopping on the track to create slow packs, or skating
> > > clockwise
> > > > > after you've blocked someone out. I reckon what you are referring to
> > > will
> > > > > probably be clarified in the next ruleset. No one wants a game where
no
> > > > > skating occurs :)
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > Jason Holder
> > > > > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It does have a strong danger factor to it. Especially if your not
> > > > > expecting
> > > > > > a team to do it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In regards to "breaking the pack". If one team stays put and the
> > > other
> > > > > > continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is
> > > breaking
> > > > > the
> > > > > > pack. Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if
> > > > > properly
> > > > > > penalized. This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving
> > > and
> > > > > thus
> > > > > > a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy. A very
> > > > > boring
> > > > > > game could be won by a score of 3-2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in this
> > > area
> > > > > as
> > > > > > they have done in other areas. Reminds me of the NBA's necessity for
> > > a
> > > > > 24
> > > > > > second clock.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will
> > > drastically
> > > > > > effect the sport. Justified or not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sloppatola
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@
> > > > > ...>wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE,
although
> > > its
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that
> > > > > concerns me
> > > > > > > is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I
> > > find
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but
> > > its ok
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > return that way.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dr.Johnny Capote
> > > > > > > Montreal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@>* wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: Dommie <dommeenation@>
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
> > > > > > > To:
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
> > > > > > > blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
> > > > > > > player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far
as
> > > I
> > > > > > > understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) .
> > > However,
> > > > > > > strategically, yes you should take her out :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > > > > Arch Rival Rollergirl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo. com<
> > > > > http://mc/compose?to=riziz101%40yahoo.com>>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy
to
> > > the
> > > > > > > game,
> > > > > > > > while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way
to
> > > > > counter
> > > > > > > > act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty,
> > > she is
> > > > > > > > skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason
> > > > > people
> > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and
> > > > > personally
> > > > > > > > that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled
enough
> > > to
> > > > > > > skate
> > > > > > > > back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are
> > > going to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or
4
> > > > > that do
> > > > > > > > will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team
> > > just
> > > > > stands
> > > > > > > > there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot
> > > goes to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > box.....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > hope that helps
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Corp. PunisHer
> > > > > > > > DRB
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > > > > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > > > > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say
> > > so.
> > > > > ;)
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport
> > > "flop"
> > > > > > > (fake
> > > > > > > >> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do
so
> > > but
> > > > > > > >> lacks
> > > > > > > >> sportsmanship.
> > > > > > > >> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both
> > > are
> > > > > > > within
> > > > > > > >> the rules.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never
> > > move
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2
> > > minutes
> > > > > > > expire?
> > > > > > > >> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but
strategically
> > > > > sound.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it
bores
> > > me.
> > > > > > > Just
> > > > > > > >> my opinion.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Sloppatola
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is
legal
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating
> > > > > clockwise is
> > > > > > > >> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise
> > > is
> > > > > not.
> > > > > > > So
> > > > > > > >> > you
> > > > > > > >> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong
> > > with
> > > > > > > >> > playing
> > > > > > > >> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every
> > > > > ruleset,
> > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > >> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or
> > > just
> > > > > > > 'clever
> > > > > > > >> > use
> > > > > > > >> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think
> > > it's
> > > > > > > amazing
> > > > > > > >> > how
> > > > > > > >> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are
> > > not
> > > > > > > >> > practicing
> > > > > > > >> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left
> > > > > behind.
> > > > > > > >> > What
> > > > > > > >> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You
> > > have
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > know
> > > > > > > >> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive
is
> > > by
> > > > > > > >> > staying on
> > > > > > > >> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled
> > > out'
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > >> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each
> > > time
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > >> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack'
> > > > > rules, it
> > > > > > > >> > has
> > > > > > > >> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you
> > > can
> > > > > use
> > > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > > >> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't
> > > just
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > >> > smashing people anymore.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of
> > > > > someone
> > > > > > > >> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually
> > > think
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > >> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work
> > > for
> > > > > > > >> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal
to
> > > BE
> > > > > HIT,
> > > > > > > >> > so
> > > > > > > >> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also
> > > legit
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > >> > hit,
> > > > > > > >> > so knock 'em over!
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > > > > > > >> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > > > > > > >> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > > > > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > > > >> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these
> > > > > > > strategies
> > > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > > >> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving
backwards,
> > > > > > > >> > > clockwise,
> > > > > > > >> > on
> > > > > > > >> > > the track.
> > > > > > > >> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see
Denver
> > > > > doing
> > > > > > > >> > > this
> > > > > > > >> > > often. What is the deal?
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly
> > > implied
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> > > that
> > > > > > > >> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as
> > > they
> > > > > may be
> > > > > > > >> > pushed
> > > > > > > >> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses
> > > these
> > > > > > > >> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I
can't
> > > > > help
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > >> > feel
> > > > > > > >> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my
opinion.
> > > If
> > > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > > >> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > What do ya'll think?
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Sloppatola
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > --
> > > > > > > >> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > > >> Somnambulate some don't
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > > > > aka Kate Underwood
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > > > > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized
for
> > > > > Yahoo!
> > > > > > > *Get it Now for Free!* <
> > > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Postdoctoral Fellow
> > Presgraves Laboratory
> > Department of Biology
> > University of Rochester
> > Rochester, NY 14627
> > Office: 585/275.4509
> > Lab: 585/276.2183
> >
>

we've been playing a 'wolves and gazelles' type game with my new league for the
last couple of months and it has totally changed the way we play. Prior to that,
we had played with creating slow packs when we had a powerjam, but nothing as
slow as really trapping a gazelle...we're now calling the trapped Gazelle a
'Carcass':) ...and now that we are rally using the 'trap a carcass' method, it
has revolutionised our game. Same goes for goading the opposition into a mega
fast pack...it's ace to watch such brilliant pack control and above all:
Teamwork!



--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Kingan <sarahdoom@...> wrote:
>
> Its pretty hard to initiate a block from a strict standstill, you at least
> have to take a step, which makes it legal. The most effective use of this
> strategy in a power jam is to trap one member of the other team and
> completely stop on the track while your jammer laps the pack and racks up
> points. Under this scenario, you've defined the pack and the trapped skater
> ("goat") has a really tough time breaking through that wall of the other
> team. I still don't understand why teams play a stopped back when both
> jammers are on the track (except to exploit a team who doesn't have a
> counter strategy for it.) As a fan and skater, I find this boring to watch
> because it effectively looks like a mosh pit on skates. A bunch of skaters
> hitting each other, stepping around, and falling. I personally think for the
> sake of the game (esp for spectators), you should be required to have
> forward momentum in order to engage in any kind of game play (including
> positional blocking). As for not skating off the line, if an entire team
> remains stationary, and the other team starts skating at the whistle, you
> will soon have a no pack situation. One way to counteract is to hit down all
> the members of the other team, and then you can become the pack because they
> are all out of play. But again, this is a mosh pit on roller skates, not
> roller derby.
>
> To me, the only time a stopped pack makes sense is in a power jam situation,
> and its fantastic to watch it done effectively. So sooner or later, teams
> will learn to counteract a stopped pack when both jammers are on the track
> and hopefully this strategy will go away. Or the rules will be revised to
> ban it. The skaters on Denver are fantastic skaters and great athletes, I'd
> rather see them win a game based on athleticism rather than a clever
> interpretation of the rules.
>
> Sarah Doom
> Coach, Roc City Roller Derby
> Founder, Providence Roller Derby, Boston Derby Dames
>
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 5:59 AM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I always thought that you couldn't block from a standstill. It was my
> > impression you had to be 'stepping or skating' in order to block. 5.1.3 in
> > WFTDA 4.0 states that you cannot be at a standstill to block. So were the
> > Refs just not judging this harshly enough at the start of the tourney, and
> > then realised they would have to start calling it to the letter?
> >
> >
> > --- In
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I love the slowing strategy but I always thought you had to maintain a
> > > forward motion to block.
> > >
> > > They did have a rules clarification regarding Denver's stopping. "They
> > > cannot block from a standstill." That is what it should have been from
> > the
> > > beginning. But this rule was put into effect during the tourney.
> > > I feel bad for Denver and the teams that were beaten by them. If only
> > this
> > > was clarified at the beginning then things may have transpired
> > differently
> > > and Denver wouldn't be booed for being creative.
> > >
> > > Rule questions:
> > > -If one team doesn't move at the whistle and the other does, does the
> > jammer
> > > whistle blow?
> > > -If yes, why would refs start play without a pack?
> > > -If the one team that moves catches back up to the team that has not
> > moved
> > > initially (lapping them) are they a pack when together?
> > > -How does the previous scenario affect scoring?
> > >
> > > These questions may sound stupid but are possible questions if a team
> > were
> > > to take the loop hole in these rules further.
> > >
> > > Sloppatola
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Oh, I see what you mean now about whole teams not starting on the
> > whistle
> > > > (just saw it happen in the Rocky Mountain/Texas game). Yeah that kinda
> > > > sucks. I didn't see the Denver game you were referring to, so just
> > thought
> > > > you meant stopping on the track to create slow packs, or skating
> > clockwise
> > > > after you've blocked someone out. I reckon what you are referring to
> > will
> > > > probably be clarified in the next ruleset. No one wants a game where no
> > > > skating occurs :)
> > > >
> > > > --- In
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jason Holder
> > > > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It does have a strong danger factor to it. Especially if your not
> > > > expecting
> > > > > a team to do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > In regards to "breaking the pack". If one team stays put and the
> > other
> > > > > continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is
> > breaking
> > > > the
> > > > > pack. Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if
> > > > properly
> > > > > penalized. This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving
> > and
> > > > thus
> > > > > a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy. A very
> > > > boring
> > > > > game could be won by a score of 3-2.
> > > > >
> > > > > All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in this
> > area
> > > > as
> > > > > they have done in other areas. Reminds me of the NBA's necessity for
> > a
> > > > 24
> > > > > second clock.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will
> > drastically
> > > > > effect the sport. Justified or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sloppatola
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@
> > > > ...>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE, although
> > its
> > > > not
> > > > > > that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that
> > > > concerns me
> > > > > > is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I
> > find
> > > > that
> > > > > > dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but
> > its ok
> > > > to
> > > > > > return that way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr.Johnny Capote
> > > > > > Montreal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@>* wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Dommie <dommeenation@>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
> > > > > > To:
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
> > > > > > blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
> > > > > > player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as
> > I
> > > > > > understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) .
> > However,
> > > > > > strategically, yes you should take her out :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > > > Arch Rival Rollergirl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo. com<
> > > > http://mc/compose?to=riziz101%40yahoo.com>>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to
> > the
> > > > > > game,
> > > > > > > while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to
> > > > counter
> > > > > > > act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty,
> > she is
> > > > > > > skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason
> > > > people
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and
> > > > personally
> > > > > > > that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough
> > to
> > > > > > skate
> > > > > > > back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are
> > going to
> > > > be
> > > > > > out
> > > > > > > of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4
> > > > that do
> > > > > > > will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team
> > just
> > > > stands
> > > > > > > there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot
> > goes to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > box.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > hope that helps
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Corp. PunisHer
> > > > > > > DRB
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > > > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > > > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say
> > so.
> > > > ;)
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport
> > "flop"
> > > > > > (fake
> > > > > > >> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do so
> > but
> > > > > > >> lacks
> > > > > > >> sportsmanship.
> > > > > > >> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both
> > are
> > > > > > within
> > > > > > >> the rules.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never
> > move
> > > > and
> > > > > > >> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2
> > minutes
> > > > > > expire?
> > > > > > >> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but strategically
> > > > sound.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores
> > me.
> > > > > > Just
> > > > > > >> my opinion.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Sloppatola
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating
> > > > clockwise is
> > > > > > >> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise
> > is
> > > > not.
> > > > > > So
> > > > > > >> > you
> > > > > > >> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong
> > with
> > > > > > >> > playing
> > > > > > >> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every
> > > > ruleset,
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > >> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or
> > just
> > > > > > 'clever
> > > > > > >> > use
> > > > > > >> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think
> > it's
> > > > > > amazing
> > > > > > >> > how
> > > > > > >> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are
> > not
> > > > > > >> > practicing
> > > > > > >> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left
> > > > behind.
> > > > > > >> > What
> > > > > > >> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > > >> > know
> > > > > > >> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is
> > by
> > > > > > >> > staying on
> > > > > > >> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled
> > out'
> > > > of
> > > > > > >> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each
> > time
> > > > a
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > >> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack'
> > > > rules, it
> > > > > > >> > has
> > > > > > >> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you
> > can
> > > > use
> > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > >> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't
> > just
> > > > about
> > > > > > >> > smashing people anymore.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of
> > > > someone
> > > > > > >> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually
> > think
> > > > of
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > >> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work
> > for
> > > > > > >> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to
> > BE
> > > > HIT,
> > > > > > >> > so
> > > > > > >> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also
> > legit
> > > > to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > >> > hit,
> > > > > > >> > so knock 'em over!
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > > > > > >> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > > > > > >> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > > > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > > >> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these
> > > > > > strategies
> > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > >> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
> > > > > > >> > > clockwise,
> > > > > > >> > on
> > > > > > >> > > the track.
> > > > > > >> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver
> > > > doing
> > > > > > >> > > this
> > > > > > >> > > often. What is the deal?
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly
> > implied
> > > > that
> > > > > > >> > > that
> > > > > > >> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as
> > they
> > > > may be
> > > > > > >> > pushed
> > > > > > >> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses
> > these
> > > > > > >> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't
> > > > help
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > >> > feel
> > > > > > >> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.
> > If
> > > > > > doing
> > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > >> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > What do ya'll think?
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > Sloppatola
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > --
> > > > > > >> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > >> Somnambulate some don't
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > > > aka Kate Underwood
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > > > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for
> > > > Yahoo!
> > > > > > *Get it Now for Free!* <
> > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Postdoctoral Fellow
> Presgraves Laboratory
> Department of Biology
> University of Rochester
> Rochester, NY 14627
> Office: 585/275.4509
> Lab: 585/276.2183
>

Please bear with me, as I'm trying to visualize this.  I work third shift and
this was my weekend on so unfortunately I didn't get to see any of the bouts
this weekend.

This is our first season having a travel team, and we've been working all summer
on knowing when to use the slow and trap strategy.  But I'm seeing a lot of talk
about the "stop and trap" on different forums.  Am I correct in thinking this is
along the same lines as how a press is used in basketball?  You isolate and
swarm the player with the ball using two or three defenders,  leaving her unable
to dribble or pivot.  Is this essentially what you are doing to the "goat?" 
Stopping on the track while having her boxed in, then just basically stepping
around when she tries to get around?

Like I said, just trying to visualize what everyone is
talking/complaining/arfing about!

Tilly Screams
Fox Cityz Foxz
Appleton, WI


--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Kingan <sarahdoom@...> wrote:
>
> Its pretty hard to initiate a block from a strict standstill, you at least
> have to take a step, which makes it legal. The most effective use of this
> strategy in a power jam is to trap one member of the other team and
> completely stop on the track while your jammer laps the pack and racks up
> points. Under this scenario, you've defined the pack and the trapped skater
> ("goat") has a really tough time breaking through that wall of the other
> team. I still don't understand why teams play a stopped back when both
> jammers are on the track (except to exploit a team who doesn't have a
> counter strategy for it.) As a fan and skater, I find this boring to watch
> because it effectively looks like a mosh pit on skates. A bunch of skaters
> hitting each other, stepping around, and falling. I personally think for the
> sake of the game (esp for spectators), you should be required to have
> forward momentum in order to engage in any kind of game play (including
> positional blocking). As for not skating off the line, if an entire team
> remains stationary, and the other team starts skating at the whistle, you
> will soon have a no pack situation. One way to counteract is to hit down all
> the members of the other team, and then you can become the pack because they
> are all out of play. But again, this is a mosh pit on roller skates, not
> roller derby.
>
> To me, the only time a stopped pack makes sense is in a power jam situation,
> and its fantastic to watch it done effectively. So sooner or later, teams
> will learn to counteract a stopped pack when both jammers are on the track
> and hopefully this strategy will go away. Or the rules will be revised to
> ban it. The skaters on Denver are fantastic skaters and great athletes, I'd
> rather see them win a game based on athleticism rather than a clever
> interpretation of the rules.
>
> Sarah Doom
> Coach, Roc City Roller Derby
> Founder, Providence Roller Derby, Boston Derby Dames
>
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 5:59 AM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I always thought that you couldn't block from a standstill. It was my
> > impression you had to be 'stepping or skating' in order to block. 5.1.3 in
> > WFTDA 4.0 states that you cannot be at a standstill to block. So were the
> > Refs just not judging this harshly enough at the start of the tourney, and
> > then realised they would have to start calling it to the letter?
> >
> >
> > --- In
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I love the slowing strategy but I always thought you had to maintain a
> > > forward motion to block.
> > >
> > > They did have a rules clarification regarding Denver's stopping. "They
> > > cannot block from a standstill." That is what it should have been from
> > the
> > > beginning. But this rule was put into effect during the tourney.
> > > I feel bad for Denver and the teams that were beaten by them. If only
> > this
> > > was clarified at the beginning then things may have transpired
> > differently
> > > and Denver wouldn't be booed for being creative.
> > >
> > > Rule questions:
> > > -If one team doesn't move at the whistle and the other does, does the
> > jammer
> > > whistle blow?
> > > -If yes, why would refs start play without a pack?
> > > -If the one team that moves catches back up to the team that has not
> > moved
> > > initially (lapping them) are they a pack when together?
> > > -How does the previous scenario affect scoring?
> > >
> > > These questions may sound stupid but are possible questions if a team
> > were
> > > to take the loop hole in these rules further.
> > >
> > > Sloppatola
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Oh, I see what you mean now about whole teams not starting on the
> > whistle
> > > > (just saw it happen in the Rocky Mountain/Texas game). Yeah that kinda
> > > > sucks. I didn't see the Denver game you were referring to, so just
> > thought
> > > > you meant stopping on the track to create slow packs, or skating
> > clockwise
> > > > after you've blocked someone out. I reckon what you are referring to
> > will
> > > > probably be clarified in the next ruleset. No one wants a game where no
> > > > skating occurs :)
> > > >
> > > > --- In
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jason Holder
> > > > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It does have a strong danger factor to it. Especially if your not
> > > > expecting
> > > > > a team to do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > In regards to "breaking the pack". If one team stays put and the
> > other
> > > > > continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is
> > breaking
> > > > the
> > > > > pack. Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if
> > > > properly
> > > > > penalized. This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving
> > and
> > > > thus
> > > > > a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy. A very
> > > > boring
> > > > > game could be won by a score of 3-2.
> > > > >
> > > > > All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in this
> > area
> > > > as
> > > > > they have done in other areas. Reminds me of the NBA's necessity for
> > a
> > > > 24
> > > > > second clock.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will
> > drastically
> > > > > effect the sport. Justified or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sloppatola
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@
> > > > ...>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE, although
> > its
> > > > not
> > > > > > that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that
> > > > concerns me
> > > > > > is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I
> > find
> > > > that
> > > > > > dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but
> > its ok
> > > > to
> > > > > > return that way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr.Johnny Capote
> > > > > > Montreal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@>* wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Dommie <dommeenation@>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
> > > > > > To:
rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com<rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
> > > > > > blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
> > > > > > player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as
> > I
> > > > > > understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) .
> > However,
> > > > > > strategically, yes you should take her out :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > > > Arch Rival Rollergirl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo. com<
> > > > http://mc/compose?to=riziz101%40yahoo.com>>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to
> > the
> > > > > > game,
> > > > > > > while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to
> > > > counter
> > > > > > > act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty,
> > she is
> > > > > > > skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason
> > > > people
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and
> > > > personally
> > > > > > > that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough
> > to
> > > > > > skate
> > > > > > > back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are
> > going to
> > > > be
> > > > > > out
> > > > > > > of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4
> > > > that do
> > > > > > > will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team
> > just
> > > > stands
> > > > > > > there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot
> > goes to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > box.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > hope that helps
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Corp. PunisHer
> > > > > > > DRB
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > > > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > > > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say
> > so.
> > > > ;)
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport
> > "flop"
> > > > > > (fake
> > > > > > >> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do so
> > but
> > > > > > >> lacks
> > > > > > >> sportsmanship.
> > > > > > >> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both
> > are
> > > > > > within
> > > > > > >> the rules.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never
> > move
> > > > and
> > > > > > >> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2
> > minutes
> > > > > > expire?
> > > > > > >> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but strategically
> > > > sound.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores
> > me.
> > > > > > Just
> > > > > > >> my opinion.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Sloppatola
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating
> > > > clockwise is
> > > > > > >> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise
> > is
> > > > not.
> > > > > > So
> > > > > > >> > you
> > > > > > >> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong
> > with
> > > > > > >> > playing
> > > > > > >> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every
> > > > ruleset,
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > >> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or
> > just
> > > > > > 'clever
> > > > > > >> > use
> > > > > > >> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think
> > it's
> > > > > > amazing
> > > > > > >> > how
> > > > > > >> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are
> > not
> > > > > > >> > practicing
> > > > > > >> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left
> > > > behind.
> > > > > > >> > What
> > > > > > >> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > > >> > know
> > > > > > >> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is
> > by
> > > > > > >> > staying on
> > > > > > >> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled
> > out'
> > > > of
> > > > > > >> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each
> > time
> > > > a
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > >> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack'
> > > > rules, it
> > > > > > >> > has
> > > > > > >> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you
> > can
> > > > use
> > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > >> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't
> > just
> > > > about
> > > > > > >> > smashing people anymore.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of
> > > > someone
> > > > > > >> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually
> > think
> > > > of
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > >> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work
> > for
> > > > > > >> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to
> > BE
> > > > HIT,
> > > > > > >> > so
> > > > > > >> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also
> > legit
> > > > to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > >> > hit,
> > > > > > >> > so knock 'em over!
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > > > > > >> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > > > > > >> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > > > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > > >> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these
> > > > > > strategies
> > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > >> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
> > > > > > >> > > clockwise,
> > > > > > >> > on
> > > > > > >> > > the track.
> > > > > > >> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver
> > > > doing
> > > > > > >> > > this
> > > > > > >> > > often. What is the deal?
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly
> > implied
> > > > that
> > > > > > >> > > that
> > > > > > >> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as
> > they
> > > > may be
> > > > > > >> > pushed
> > > > > > >> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses
> > these
> > > > > > >> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't
> > > > help
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > >> > feel
> > > > > > >> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.
> > If
> > > > > > doing
> > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > >> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > What do ya'll think?
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > Sloppatola
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > --
> > > > > > >> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > >> Somnambulate some don't
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > > > aka Kate Underwood
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > > > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for
> > > > Yahoo!
> > > > > > *Get it Now for Free!* <
> > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Postdoctoral Fellow
> Presgraves Laboratory
> Department of Biology
> University of Rochester
> Rochester, NY 14627
> Office: 585/275.4509
> Lab: 585/276.2183
>

I always thought that you couldn't block from a standstill. It was my impression
you had to be 'stepping or skating' in order to block. 5.1.3 in WFTDA 4.0 states
that you cannot be at a standstill to block. So were the Refs just not judging
this harshly enough at the start of the tourney, and then realised they would
have to start calling it to the letter?

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
<j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> I love the slowing strategy but I always thought you had to maintain a
> forward motion to block.
>
> They did have a rules clarification regarding Denver's stopping. "They
> cannot block from a standstill." That is what it should have been from the
> beginning. But this rule was put into effect during the tourney.
> I feel bad for Denver and the teams that were beaten by them. If only this
> was clarified at the beginning then things may have transpired differently
> and Denver wouldn't be booed for being creative.
>
> Rule questions:
> -If one team doesn't move at the whistle and the other does, does the jammer
> whistle blow?
> -If yes, why would refs start play without a pack?
> -If the one team that moves catches back up to the team that has not moved
> initially (lapping them) are they a pack when together?
> -How does the previous scenario affect scoring?
>
> These questions may sound stupid but are possible questions if a team were
> to take the loop hole in these rules further.
>
> Sloppatola
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> > Oh, I see what you mean now about whole teams not starting on the whistle
> > (just saw it happen in the Rocky Mountain/Texas game). Yeah that kinda
> > sucks. I didn't see the Denver game you were referring to, so just thought
> > you meant stopping on the track to create slow packs, or skating clockwise
> > after you've blocked someone out. I reckon what you are referring to will
> > probably be clarified in the next ruleset. No one wants a game where no
> > skating occurs :)
> >
> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
> > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It does have a strong danger factor to it.  Especially if your not
> > expecting
> > > a team to do it.
> > >
> > > In regards to "breaking the pack".  If one team stays put and the other
> > > continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is breaking
> > the
> > > pack.  Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if
> > properly
> > > penalized.  This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving and
> > thus
> > > a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy.  A very
> > boring
> > > game could be won by a score of 3-2.
> > >
> > > All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in this area
> > as
> > > they have done in other areas.  Reminds me of the NBA's necessity for a
> > 24
> > > second clock.
> > >
> > > I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will drastically
> > > effect the sport.  Justified or not.
> > >
> > > Sloppatola
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@
> > ...>wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE, although its
> > not
> > > > that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that
> > concerns me
> > > > is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I find
> > that
> > > > dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but its ok
> > to
> > > > return that way.
> > > >
> > > > Dr.Johnny Capote
> > > > Montreal
> > > >
> > > > --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@>* wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Dommie <dommeenation@>
> > > > Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
> > > > To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
> > > > blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
> > > > player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as I
> > > > understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) . However,
> > > > strategically, yes you should take her out :)
> > > >
> > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > Arch Rival Rollergirl
> > > >
> > > > On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo. com<
> > http://mc/compose?to=riziz101%40yahoo.com>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the
> > > > game,
> > > > > while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to
> > counter
> > > > > act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is
> > > > > skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason
> > people
> > > > do
> > > > > it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and
> > personally
> > > > > that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough to
> > > > skate
> > > > > back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to
> > be
> > > > out
> > > > > of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4
> > that do
> > > > > will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team just
> > stands
> > > > > there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to
> > the
> > > > > box.....
> > > > >
> > > > > hope that helps
> > > > >
> > > > > Corp. PunisHer
> > > > > DRB
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say so.
> > ;)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop"
> > > > (fake
> > > > >> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do so but
> > > > >> lacks
> > > > >> sportsmanship.
> > > > >> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are
> > > > within
> > > > >> the rules.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never move
> > and
> > > > >> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes
> > > > expire?
> > > > >> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but strategically
> > sound.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.
> > > > Just
> > > > >> my opinion.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sloppatola
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on
> > the
> > > > >> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating
> > clockwise is
> > > > >> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is
> > not.
> > > > So
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with
> > > > >> > playing
> > > > >> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every
> > ruleset,
> > > > new
> > > > >> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just
> > > > 'clever
> > > > >> > use
> > > > >> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's
> > > > amazing
> > > > >> > how
> > > > >> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not
> > > > >> > practicing
> > > > >> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left
> > behind.
> > > > >> > What
> > > > >> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have
> > to
> > > > >> > know
> > > > >> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by
> > > > >> > staying on
> > > > >> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out'
> > of
> > > > >> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time
> > a
> > > > new
> > > > >> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack'
> > rules, it
> > > > >> > has
> > > > >> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can
> > use
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just
> > about
> > > > >> > smashing people anymore.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of
> > someone
> > > > >> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think
> > of
> > > > it
> > > > >> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
> > > > >> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE
> > HIT,
> > > > >> > so
> > > > >> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > >> > hit,
> > > > >> > so knock 'em over!
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > > > >> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > > > >> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jason Holder
> > > > >> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these
> > > > strategies
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
> > > > >> > > clockwise,
> > > > >> > on
> > > > >> > > the track.
> > > > >> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver
> > doing
> > > > >> > > this
> > > > >> > > often. What is the deal?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied
> > that
> > > > >> > > that
> > > > >> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they
> > may be
> > > > >> > pushed
> > > > >> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses these
> > > > >> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't
> > help
> > > > but
> > > > >> > feel
> > > > >> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion. If
> > > > doing
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > What do ya'll think?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Sloppatola
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > --
> > > > >> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Somnambulate some don't
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > aka Kate Underwood
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for
> > Yahoo!
> > > > *Get it Now for Free!* <
> > http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>

Oh, I see what you mean now about whole teams not starting on the whistle (just
saw it happen in the Rocky Mountain/Texas game). Yeah that kinda sucks. I didn't
see the Denver game you were referring to, so just thought you meant stopping on
the track to create slow packs, or skating clockwise after you've blocked
someone out. I reckon what you are referring to will probably be clarified in
the next ruleset. No one wants a game where no skating occurs :)

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
<j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> It does have a strong danger factor to it.  Especially if your not expecting
> a team to do it.
>
> In regards to "breaking the pack".  If one team stays put and the other
> continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is breaking the
> pack.  Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if properly
> penalized.  This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving and thus
> a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy.  A very boring
> game could be won by a score of 3-2.
>
> All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in this area as
> they have done in other areas.  Reminds me of the NBA's necessity for a 24
> second clock.
>
> I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will drastically
> effect the sport.  Justified or not.
>
> Sloppatola
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE, although its not
> > that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that concerns me
> > is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I find that
> > dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but its ok to
> > return that way.
> >
> > Dr.Johnny Capote
> > Montreal
> >
> > --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@...>* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Dommie <dommeenation@...>
> > Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
> > To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
> > Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
> > blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
> > player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as I
> > understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) . However,
> > strategically, yes you should take her out :)
> >
> > Domme E. Nation
> > Arch Rival Rollergirl
> >
> > On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo.
com<http://mc/compose?to=riziz101%40yahoo.com>>
> > wrote:
> > > I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the
> > game,
> > > while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to counter
> > > act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is
> > > skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason people
> > do
> > > it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and personally
> > > that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough to
> > skate
> > > back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
> > >
> > > As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to be
> > out
> > > of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4 that do
> > > will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team just stands
> > > there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to the
> > > box.....
> > >
> > > hope that helps
> > >
> > > Corp. PunisHer
> > > DRB
> > >
> > > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups.
com<http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jason Holder
> > > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
> > >>
> > >> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop"
> > (fake
> > >> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do so but
> > >> lacks
> > >> sportsmanship.
> > >> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are
> > within
> > >> the rules.
> > >>
> > >> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never move and
> > >> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes
> > expire?
> > >> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but strategically sound.
> > >>
> > >> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.
> > Just
> > >> my opinion.
> > >>
> > >> Sloppatola
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
> > >> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
> > >> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not.
> > So
> > >> > you
> > >> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> > >> >
> > >> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with
> > >> > playing
> > >> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset,
> > new
> > >> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just
> > 'clever
> > >> > use
> > >> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's
> > amazing
> > >> > how
> > >> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not
> > >> > practicing
> > >> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind.
> > >> > What
> > >> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to
> > >> > know
> > >> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by
> > >> > staying on
> > >> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
> > >> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a
> > new
> > >> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it
> > >> > has
> > >> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use
> > >> > that
> > >> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
> > >> > smashing people anymore.
> > >> >
> > >> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
> > >> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of
> > it
> > >> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
> > >> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT,
> > >> > so
> > >> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to
> > be
> > >> > hit,
> > >> > so knock 'em over!
> > >> >
> > >> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > >> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > >> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups.
com<http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jason Holder
> > >> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these
> > strategies
> > >> > that
> > >> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
> > >> > > clockwise,
> > >> > on
> > >> > > the track.
> > >> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing
> > >> > > this
> > >> > > often. What is the deal?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that
> > >> > > that
> > >> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
> > >> > pushed
> > >> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses these
> > >> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help
> > but
> > >> > feel
> > >> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion. If
> > doing
> > >> > that
> > >> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > What do ya'll think?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sloppatola
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > >> >
> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Somnambulate some don't
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Domme E. Nation
> > aka Kate Underwood
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo!
> > *Get it Now for Free!* <http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>

Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as I
understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed). However,
strategically, yes you should take her out :)

Domme E. Nation
Arch Rival Rollergirl

On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@...> wrote:
> I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the game,
> while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to counter
> act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is
> skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her.  The reason people do
> it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and personally
> that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough to skate
> back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
>
> As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to be out
> of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4 that do
> will be subject to other penalties by doing that.  If one team just stands
> there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to the
> box.....
>
> hope that helps
>
> Corp. PunisHer
> DRB
>
> --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
> <j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>>
>> I never said it was "unfair".  If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
>>
>> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop" (fake
>> illegal contact) I cringe.  Sure, it is within the rules to do so but
>> lacks
>> sportsmanship.
>> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are within
>> the rules.
>>
>> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there?  Never move and
>> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes expire?
>> That would be within the rules.  Not a fun game but strategically sound.
>>
>> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.  Just
>> my opinion.
>>
>> Sloppatola
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>>
>> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
>> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
>> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So
>> > you
>> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
>> >
>> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with
>> > playing
>> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new
>> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever
>> > use
>> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing
>> > how
>> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not
>> > practicing
>> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind.
>> > What
>> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to
>> > know
>> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by
>> > staying on
>> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
>> > subsequent rulesets....it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a new
>> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it
>> > has
>> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use
>> > that
>> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
>> > smashing people anymore.
>> >
>> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
>> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it
>> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
>> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT,
>> > so
>> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to be
>> > hit,
>> > so knock 'em over!
>> >
>> > Kitty DeCapitate
>> > Victorian Roller Derby League
>> > London Rollergirls Alumni
>> >
>> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
>> > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies
>> > that
>> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
>> > > clockwise,
>> > on
>> > > the track.
>> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing
>> > > this
>> > > often.  What is the deal?
>> > >
>> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that
>> > > that
>> > > isn't cool.  I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
>> > pushed
>> > > out on the next rules draft.  No offense to anyone who uses these
>> > > techniques.  In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but
>> > feel
>> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.  If doing
>> > that
>> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
>> > >
>> > > What do ya'll think?
>> > >
>> > > Sloppatola
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Somnambulate some don't
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Somnambulate some don't
>>
>
>
>


--
Domme E. Nation
aka Kate Underwood

I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the game,
while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to counter act
that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is skating the
wrong way so nail her and penalty on her.  The reason people do it is number one
to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and personally that is the only time
it should be used or if your skilled enough to skate back to back of pack to
help your jammer without making contact.

As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to be out of
play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4 that do will be
subject to other penalties by doing that.  If one team just stands there i would
hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to the box.....

hope that helps

Corp. PunisHer
DRB

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
<j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> I never said it was "unfair".  If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
>
> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop" (fake
> illegal contact) I cringe.  Sure, it is within the rules to do so but lacks
> sportsmanship.
> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are within
> the rules.
>
> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there?  Never move and
> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes expire?
> That would be within the rules.  Not a fun game but strategically sound.
>
> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.  Just
> my opinion.
>
> Sloppatola
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So you
> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> >
> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with playing
> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new
> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever use
> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing how
> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not practicing
> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind. What
> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to know
> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by staying on
> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
> > subsequent rulesets....it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a new
> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it has
> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use that
> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
> > smashing people anymore.
> >
> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it
> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT, so
> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to be hit,
> > so knock 'em over!
> >
> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> >
> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
> > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies
> > that
> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards, clockwise,
> > on
> > > the track.
> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing this
> > > often.  What is the deal?
> > >
> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that that
> > > isn't cool.  I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
> > pushed
> > > out on the next rules draft.  No offense to anyone who uses these
> > > techniques.  In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but
> > feel
> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.  If doing
> > that
> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > >
> > > What do ya'll think?
> > >
> > > Sloppatola
> > >
> > > --
> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>

ooh, also, how do your blockers roles' change from 'initital pass' to then
subsequent scoring passes?

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, "qwystn" <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> I would love some strategy ideas as well. I was literally about to post on
this subject.
>
> I would like to put together a bunch of different ideas that teams use.
Especially involving specific roles for Blockers---how do you use them on the
track? Obviously sometimes it's going to be reactionary, but I would really like
to make a document with the myriad of different 'default' positions/roles
Blockers will have. Eg: how do you use your Pivot and 2...what is their main
goal when they line up on the Pivot Line? What is their plan B? What do your 3
and 4 do on the Pivot Line? Do they focus on offence or defence first? How much
of it is reactionary to the team they are playing against?
> I would like to give my league, as well as leagues that I coach, as many
different ideas as possible. I find that how you play as a team is dependent on
the skills of the individuals in the squad, so trying different ideas would be
great!
>
> If you want to email offline, feel free.
>
> Kitty DeCapitate
> Victorian Roller Derby League
> London Rollergirls Alumni
>
>
> --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Chaneque Connolly <chaneque@>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi All:
> >
> > I would love some strategy or plays emailed to me too!  If anyone has
> > anything on hand they wouldn't mind sharing!  We don't play WFTDA so
> > you don't have to worry about us playing against you anytime.  =)
> >
> > chaneque@
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Chane´que Connolly
> > -------------------------------
> > aka Ann Thrash, #22
> > Captain, Runaway Brides
> > AZ Derby Dames
> >
>

I would check in with some certified Refs as I am pretty sure there are rules to
govern the two scenarios you mentioned at the end there, mostly in regards to
destruction of the pack.

As a fan, I LOVE watching this clever type of play :) So I guess derby is in the
eye of the beholder :)
Kitty

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
<j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> I never said it was "unfair".  If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
>
> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop" (fake
> illegal contact) I cringe.  Sure, it is within the rules to do so but lacks
> sportsmanship.
> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are within
> the rules.
>
> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there?  Never move and
> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes expire?
> That would be within the rules.  Not a fun game but strategically sound.
>
> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.  Just
> my opinion.
>
> Sloppatola
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So you
> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> >
> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with playing
> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new
> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever use
> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing how
> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not practicing
> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind. What
> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to know
> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by staying on
> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
> > subsequent rulesets....it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a new
> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it has
> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use that
> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
> > smashing people anymore.
> >
> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it
> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT, so
> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to be hit,
> > so knock 'em over!
> >
> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> >
> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
> > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies
> > that
> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards, clockwise,
> > on
> > > the track.
> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing this
> > > often.  What is the deal?
> > >
> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that that
> > > isn't cool.  I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
> > pushed
> > > out on the next rules draft.  No offense to anyone who uses these
> > > techniques.  In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but
> > feel
> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.  If doing
> > that
> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > >
> > > What do ya'll think?
> > >
> > > Sloppatola
> > >
> > > --
> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>

I would love some strategy ideas as well. I was literally about to post on this
subject.

I would like to put together a bunch of different ideas that teams use.
Especially involving specific roles for Blockers---how do you use them on the
track? Obviously sometimes it's going to be reactionary, but I would really like
to make a document with the myriad of different 'default' positions/roles
Blockers will have. Eg: how do you use your Pivot and 2...what is their main
goal when they line up on the Pivot Line? What is their plan B? What do your 3
and 4 do on the Pivot Line? Do they focus on offence or defence first? How much
of it is reactionary to the team they are playing against?
I would like to give my league, as well as leagues that I coach, as many
different ideas as possible. I find that how you play as a team is dependent on
the skills of the individuals in the squad, so trying different ideas would be
great!

If you want to email offline, feel free.

Kitty DeCapitate
Victorian Roller Derby League
London Rollergirls Alumni


--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Chaneque Connolly <chaneque@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi All:
>
> I would love some strategy or plays emailed to me too!  If anyone has
> anything on hand they wouldn't mind sharing!  We don't play WFTDA so
> you don't have to worry about us playing against you anytime.  =)
>
> chaneque@...
>
> Thanks!
> Chane´que Connolly
> -------------------------------
> aka Ann Thrash, #22
> Captain, Runaway Brides
> AZ Derby Dames
>

Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the track,
however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is legal, but
again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So you have to make
sure you are still playing within those rules.

I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with playing 'to
the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new strategies
come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever use of the rules'
is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing how the game is
developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not practicing ways which to
stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind. What happens if you play
a team who plays with this strategy? You have to know how to counteract it. The
only way you can stay competitive is by staying on top of strategy. Don't worry
about whether it will be 'ruled out' of subsequent rulesets....it's easy to
adapt. We've had to each time a new ruleset comes out. With the current 'no
destroying the pack' rules, it has made the game very much about 'where the pack
is', and if you can use that to your advantage, I think that's clever play.
Derby isn't just about smashing people anymore.

I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone stopping
on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it round the other
way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for me?'....remember someone
skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT, so charge them! Remember someone
stopping on the track is also legit to be hit, so knock 'em over!

Kitty DeCapitate
Victorian Roller Derby League
London Rollergirls Alumni

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
<j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies that
> some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards, clockwise, on
> the track.
> Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing this
> often.  What is the deal?
>
> I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that that
> isn't cool.  I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be pushed
> out on the next rules draft.  No offense to anyone who uses these
> techniques.  In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but feel
> that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.  If doing that
> is cool how far can you go with it?
>
> What do ya'll think?
>
> Sloppatola
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>

Hello good people of the derby world...

Please add our new league and teams on myspaz & FB:

Tri-County Rollers League:

FB: http://tinyurl.com/ykmpyep
MY: http://tinyurl.com/yghxkrr

  - New Teams within TCR:

Second City Roller Bullies (Birmingham England)
FB: http://tinyurl.com/yl6pnt3
MY: http://www.myspace.com/secondcityrollerbullies

Redditch Rebel Rollers (Redditch England)
FB: http://tinyurl.com/yjsp6hc
MY: http://www.myspace.com/redditchrebelrollers

Cheers me dears!

Bee Sting #101
TCR / Redditch Rebel Rollers
Founder

Team Awesome is hosting another training camp - this time in Southern
California!

Where: San Diego Doll House (downtown)
When: Dec 18-20
Who: 10 Team Awesome coaches, 150 skater attendees, 50 local skater-staff, the
SDDD training team, 2 competitive derby teams (Team Awesome and Team SeXY - the
Dude All-Stars), and every ref that can make their way to San Diego
Why: TA offers training for up to 150 intermediate skaters to take their game to
the next level.  Regional refs are co-hosting a concurrent CA Ref Clinic. 
Proceeds from the camp will benefit the San Diego Derby Dolls.

How:
The Team Awesome Camp is an intensive roller derby training weekend for
intermediate and advanced bouting roller derby skaters. Each session is designed
to increase playing level, skills, conditioning and strategic understanding for
skaters with bouting experience. Camp will be coached by Team Awesome skaters
with years of playing and coaching experience. Training will include both banked
and flat track classes and hourly scrimmage opportunities to test new skills in
real-world jams. Group classes and individual coaching will be available.
Limited to the first 150 registrants. TA Training Camp provides an excellent
opportunity to learn advanced strategy and skills to take your game to the next
level, and a phenomenal chance for skater-coaches to learn and bring back
advanced training drills for skills and strategy to their teams.

We're also hosting a grudge match banked track bout on Saturday night that will
be open to campers, sponsors and Derby Dolls.  TEAM AWESOME vs TEAM SEXY (the
dudes that beat TA at RollerCon).

More info about the camp and the coaches, or to purchase tickets:
awesomederby.com

For opinions on the level of awesomeness, ask the Burning River Rollergirls, who
hosted the last TA Camp!

Sincerely, Ivanna S. Pankin
Team Awesome Captain
San Diego Derby Doll