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#3754 From: Sarah Kingan <sarahdoom@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		sarah_kingan
Offline Offline
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Its pretty hard to initiate a block from a strict standstill, you at least have to take a step, which makes it legal. The most effective use of this strategy in a power jam is to trap one member of the other team and completely stop on the track while your jammer laps the pack and racks up points. Under this scenario, you've defined the pack and the trapped skater ("goat") has a really tough time breaking through that wall of the other team. I still don't understand why teams play a stopped back when both jammers are on the track (except to exploit a team who doesn't have a counter strategy for it.) As a fan and skater, I find this boring to watch because it effectively looks like a mosh pit on skates. A bunch of skaters hitting each other, stepping around, and falling. I personally think for the sake of the game (esp for spectators), you should be required to have forward momentum in order to engage in any kind of game play (including positional blocking). As for not skating off the line, if an entire team remains stationary, and the other team starts skating at the whistle, you will soon have a no pack situation. One way to counteract is to hit down all the members of the other team, and then you can become the pack because they are all out of play. But again, this is a mosh pit on roller skates, not roller derby.

To me, the only time a stopped pack makes sense is in a power jam situation, and its fantastic to watch it done effectively. So sooner or later, teams will learn to counteract a stopped pack when both jammers are on the track and hopefully this strategy will go away. Or the rules will be revised to ban it. The skaters on Denver are fantastic skaters and great athletes, I'd rather see them win a game based on athleticism rather than a clever interpretation of the rules.

Sarah Doom
Coach, Roc City Roller Derby
Founder, Providence Roller Derby, Boston Derby Dames

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 5:59 AM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
 

I always thought that you couldn't block from a standstill. It was my impression you had to be 'stepping or skating' in order to block. 5.1.3 in WFTDA 4.0 states that you cannot be at a standstill to block. So were the Refs just not judging this harshly enough at the start of the tourney, and then realised they would have to start calling it to the letter?



--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> I love the slowing strategy but I always thought you had to maintain a
> forward motion to block.
>
> They did have a rules clarification regarding Denver's stopping. "They
> cannot block from a standstill." That is what it should have been from the
> beginning. But this rule was put into effect during the tourney.
> I feel bad for Denver and the teams that were beaten by them. If only this
> was clarified at the beginning then things may have transpired differently
> and Denver wouldn't be booed for being creative.
>
> Rule questions:
> -If one team doesn't move at the whistle and the other does, does the jammer
> whistle blow?
> -If yes, why would refs start play without a pack?
> -If the one team that moves catches back up to the team that has not moved
> initially (lapping them) are they a pack when together?
> -How does the previous scenario affect scoring?
>
> These questions may sound stupid but are possible questions if a team were
> to take the loop hole in these rules further.
>
> Sloppatola
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> > Oh, I see what you mean now about whole teams not starting on the whistle
> > (just saw it happen in the Rocky Mountain/Texas game). Yeah that kinda
> > sucks. I didn't see the Denver game you were referring to, so just thought
> > you meant stopping on the track to create slow packs, or skating clockwise
> > after you've blocked someone out. I reckon what you are referring to will
> > probably be clarified in the next ruleset. No one wants a game where no
> > skating occurs :)
> >
> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
> > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It does have a strong danger factor to it. Especially if your not
> > expecting
> > > a team to do it.
> > >
> > > In regards to "breaking the pack". If one team stays put and the other
> > > continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is breaking
> > the
> > > pack. Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if
> > properly
> > > penalized. This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving and
> > thus
> > > a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy. A very
> > boring
> > > game could be won by a score of 3-2.
> > >
> > > All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in this area
> > as
> > > they have done in other areas. Reminds me of the NBA's necessity for a
> > 24
> > > second clock.
> > >
> > > I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will drastically
> > > effect the sport. Justified or not.
> > >
> > > Sloppatola
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@
> > ...>wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE, although its
> > not
> > > > that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that
> > concerns me
> > > > is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I find
> > that
> > > > dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but its ok
> > to
> > > > return that way.
> > > >
> > > > Dr.Johnny Capote
> > > > Montreal
> > > >
> > > > --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@>* wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Dommie <dommeenation@>
> > > > Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
> > > > To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
> > > > blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
> > > > player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as I
> > > > understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) . However,
> > > > strategically, yes you should take her out :)
> > > >
> > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > Arch Rival Rollergirl
> > > >
> > > > On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo. com<
> > http://mc/compose?to=riziz101%40yahoo.com>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the
> > > > game,
> > > > > while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to
> > counter
> > > > > act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is
> > > > > skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason
> > people
> > > > do
> > > > > it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and
> > personally
> > > > > that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough to
> > > > skate
> > > > > back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to
> > be
> > > > out
> > > > > of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4
> > that do
> > > > > will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team just
> > stands
> > > > > there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to
> > the
> > > > > box.....
> > > > >
> > > > > hope that helps
> > > > >
> > > > > Corp. PunisHer
> > > > > DRB
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say so.
> > ;)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop"
> > > > (fake
> > > > >> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do so but
> > > > >> lacks
> > > > >> sportsmanship.
> > > > >> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are
> > > > within
> > > > >> the rules.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never move
> > and
> > > > >> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes
> > > > expire?
> > > > >> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but strategically
> > sound.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.
> > > > Just
> > > > >> my opinion.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sloppatola
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on
> > the
> > > > >> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating
> > clockwise is
> > > > >> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is
> > not.
> > > > So
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with
> > > > >> > playing
> > > > >> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every
> > ruleset,
> > > > new
> > > > >> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just
> > > > 'clever
> > > > >> > use
> > > > >> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's
> > > > amazing
> > > > >> > how
> > > > >> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not
> > > > >> > practicing
> > > > >> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left
> > behind.
> > > > >> > What
> > > > >> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have
> > to
> > > > >> > know
> > > > >> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by
> > > > >> > staying on
> > > > >> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out'
> > of
> > > > >> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time
> > a
> > > > new
> > > > >> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack'
> > rules, it
> > > > >> > has
> > > > >> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can
> > use
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just
> > about
> > > > >> > smashing people anymore.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of
> > someone
> > > > >> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think
> > of
> > > > it
> > > > >> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
> > > > >> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE
> > HIT,
> > > > >> > so
> > > > >> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > >> > hit,
> > > > >> > so knock 'em over!
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > > > >> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > > > >> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jason Holder
> > > > >> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these
> > > > strategies
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
> > > > >> > > clockwise,
> > > > >> > on
> > > > >> > > the track.
> > > > >> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver
> > doing
> > > > >> > > this
> > > > >> > > often. What is the deal?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied
> > that
> > > > >> > > that
> > > > >> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they
> > may be
> > > > >> > pushed
> > > > >> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses these
> > > > >> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't
> > help
> > > > but
> > > > >> > feel
> > > > >> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion. If
> > > > doing
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > What do ya'll think?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Sloppatola
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > --
> > > > >> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Somnambulate some don't
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > aka Kate Underwood
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for
> > Yahoo!
> > > > *Get it Now for Free!* <
> > http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>




--
Postdoctoral Fellow
Presgraves Laboratory
Department of Biology
University of Rochester
Rochester, NY 14627
Office: 585/275.4509
Lab: 585/276.2183

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3753 From: "qwystn" <qwystn@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:59 am
Subject: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		qwystn
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
I always thought that you couldn't block from a standstill. It was my impression
you had to be 'stepping or skating' in order to block. 5.1.3 in WFTDA 4.0 states
that you cannot be at a standstill to block. So were the Refs just not judging
this harshly enough at the start of the tourney, and then realised they would
have to start calling it to the letter?

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
<j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> I love the slowing strategy but I always thought you had to maintain a
> forward motion to block.
>
> They did have a rules clarification regarding Denver's stopping. "They
> cannot block from a standstill." That is what it should have been from the
> beginning. But this rule was put into effect during the tourney.
> I feel bad for Denver and the teams that were beaten by them. If only this
> was clarified at the beginning then things may have transpired differently
> and Denver wouldn't be booed for being creative.
>
> Rule questions:
> -If one team doesn't move at the whistle and the other does, does the jammer
> whistle blow?
> -If yes, why would refs start play without a pack?
> -If the one team that moves catches back up to the team that has not moved
> initially (lapping them) are they a pack when together?
> -How does the previous scenario affect scoring?
>
> These questions may sound stupid but are possible questions if a team were
> to take the loop hole in these rules further.
>
> Sloppatola
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> > Oh, I see what you mean now about whole teams not starting on the whistle
> > (just saw it happen in the Rocky Mountain/Texas game). Yeah that kinda
> > sucks. I didn't see the Denver game you were referring to, so just thought
> > you meant stopping on the track to create slow packs, or skating clockwise
> > after you've blocked someone out. I reckon what you are referring to will
> > probably be clarified in the next ruleset. No one wants a game where no
> > skating occurs :)
> >
> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
> > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It does have a strong danger factor to it.  Especially if your not
> > expecting
> > > a team to do it.
> > >
> > > In regards to "breaking the pack".  If one team stays put and the other
> > > continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is breaking
> > the
> > > pack.  Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if
> > properly
> > > penalized.  This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving and
> > thus
> > > a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy.  A very
> > boring
> > > game could be won by a score of 3-2.
> > >
> > > All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in this area
> > as
> > > they have done in other areas.  Reminds me of the NBA's necessity for a
> > 24
> > > second clock.
> > >
> > > I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will drastically
> > > effect the sport.  Justified or not.
> > >
> > > Sloppatola
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@
> > ...>wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE, although its
> > not
> > > > that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that
> > concerns me
> > > > is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I find
> > that
> > > > dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but its ok
> > to
> > > > return that way.
> > > >
> > > > Dr.Johnny Capote
> > > > Montreal
> > > >
> > > > --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@>* wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Dommie <dommeenation@>
> > > > Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
> > > > To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
> > > > blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
> > > > player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as I
> > > > understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) . However,
> > > > strategically, yes you should take her out :)
> > > >
> > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > Arch Rival Rollergirl
> > > >
> > > > On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo. com<
> > http://mc/compose?to=riziz101%40yahoo.com>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the
> > > > game,
> > > > > while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to
> > counter
> > > > > act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is
> > > > > skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason
> > people
> > > > do
> > > > > it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and
> > personally
> > > > > that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough to
> > > > skate
> > > > > back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to
> > be
> > > > out
> > > > > of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4
> > that do
> > > > > will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team just
> > stands
> > > > > there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to
> > the
> > > > > box.....
> > > > >
> > > > > hope that helps
> > > > >
> > > > > Corp. PunisHer
> > > > > DRB
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jason Holder
> > > > > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say so.
> > ;)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop"
> > > > (fake
> > > > >> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do so but
> > > > >> lacks
> > > > >> sportsmanship.
> > > > >> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are
> > > > within
> > > > >> the rules.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never move
> > and
> > > > >> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes
> > > > expire?
> > > > >> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but strategically
> > sound.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.
> > > > Just
> > > > >> my opinion.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sloppatola
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on
> > the
> > > > >> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating
> > clockwise is
> > > > >> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is
> > not.
> > > > So
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with
> > > > >> > playing
> > > > >> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every
> > ruleset,
> > > > new
> > > > >> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just
> > > > 'clever
> > > > >> > use
> > > > >> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's
> > > > amazing
> > > > >> > how
> > > > >> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not
> > > > >> > practicing
> > > > >> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left
> > behind.
> > > > >> > What
> > > > >> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have
> > to
> > > > >> > know
> > > > >> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by
> > > > >> > staying on
> > > > >> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out'
> > of
> > > > >> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time
> > a
> > > > new
> > > > >> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack'
> > rules, it
> > > > >> > has
> > > > >> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can
> > use
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just
> > about
> > > > >> > smashing people anymore.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of
> > someone
> > > > >> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think
> > of
> > > > it
> > > > >> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
> > > > >> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE
> > HIT,
> > > > >> > so
> > > > >> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > >> > hit,
> > > > >> > so knock 'em over!
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > > > >> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > > > >> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<
> > http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jason Holder
> > > > >> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these
> > > > strategies
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
> > > > >> > > clockwise,
> > > > >> > on
> > > > >> > > the track.
> > > > >> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver
> > doing
> > > > >> > > this
> > > > >> > > often. What is the deal?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied
> > that
> > > > >> > > that
> > > > >> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they
> > may be
> > > > >> > pushed
> > > > >> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses these
> > > > >> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't
> > help
> > > > but
> > > > >> > feel
> > > > >> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion. If
> > > > doing
> > > > >> > that
> > > > >> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > What do ya'll think?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Sloppatola
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > --
> > > > >> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Somnambulate some don't
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Domme E. Nation
> > > > aka Kate Underwood
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for
> > Yahoo!
> > > > *Get it Now for Free!* <
> > http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3752 From: Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:12 am
Subject: Re: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		sloppy_boggins
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I love the slowing strategy but I always thought you had to maintain a forward motion to block.

They did have a rules clarification regarding Denver's stopping. "They cannot block from a standstill." That is what it should have been from the beginning. But this rule was put into effect during the tourney.
I feel bad for Denver and the teams that were beaten by them. If only this was clarified at the beginning then things may have transpired differently and Denver wouldn't be booed for being creative.

Rule questions:
-If one team doesn't move at the whistle and the other does, does the jammer whistle blow?
-If yes, why would refs start play without a pack?
-If the one team that moves catches back up to the team that has not moved initially (lapping them) are they a pack when together? 
-How does the previous scenario affect scoring?

These questions may sound stupid but are possible questions if a team were to take the loop hole in these rules further.

Sloppatola

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:44 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
Oh, I see what you mean now about whole teams not starting on the whistle (just saw it happen in the Rocky Mountain/Texas game). Yeah that kinda sucks. I didn't see the Denver game you were referring to, so just thought you meant stopping on the track to create slow packs, or skating clockwise after you've blocked someone out. I reckon what you are referring to will probably be clarified in the next ruleset. No one wants a game where no skating occurs :)

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> It does have a strong danger factor to it.  Especially if your not expecting
> a team to do it.
>
> In regards to "breaking the pack".  If one team stays put and the other
> continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is breaking the
> pack.  Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if properly
> penalized.  This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving and thus
> a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy.  A very boring
> game could be won by a score of 3-2.
>
> All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in this area as
> they have done in other areas.  Reminds me of the NBA's necessity for a 24
> second clock.
>
> I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will drastically
> effect the sport.  Justified or not.
>
> Sloppatola
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE, although its not
> > that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that concerns me
> > is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I find that
> > dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but its ok to
> > return that way.
> >
> > Dr.Johnny Capote
> > Montreal
> >
> > --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@...>* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Dommie <dommeenation@...>
> > Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
> > To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
> > Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
> > blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
> > player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as I
> > understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) . However,
> > strategically, yes you should take her out :)
> >
> > Domme E. Nation
> > Arch Rival Rollergirl
> >
> > On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo. com<http://mc/compose?to=riziz101%40yahoo.com>>
> > wrote:
> > > I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the
> > game,
> > > while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to counter
> > > act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is
> > > skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason people
> > do
> > > it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and personally
> > > that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough to
> > skate
> > > back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
> > >
> > > As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to be
> > out
> > > of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4 that do
> > > will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team just stands
> > > there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to the
> > > box.....
> > >
> > > hope that helps
> > >
> > > Corp. PunisHer
> > > DRB
> > >
> > > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jason Holder
> > > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
> > >>
> > >> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop"
> > (fake
> > >> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do so but
> > >> lacks
> > >> sportsmanship.
> > >> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are
> > within
> > >> the rules.
> > >>
> > >> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never move and
> > >> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes
> > expire?
> > >> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but strategically sound.
> > >>
> > >> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.
> > Just
> > >> my opinion.
> > >>
> > >> Sloppatola
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
> > >> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
> > >> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not.
> > So
> > >> > you
> > >> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> > >> >
> > >> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with
> > >> > playing
> > >> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset,
> > new
> > >> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just
> > 'clever
> > >> > use
> > >> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's
> > amazing
> > >> > how
> > >> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not
> > >> > practicing
> > >> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind.
> > >> > What
> > >> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to
> > >> > know
> > >> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by
> > >> > staying on
> > >> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
> > >> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a
> > new
> > >> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it
> > >> > has
> > >> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use
> > >> > that
> > >> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
> > >> > smashing people anymore.
> > >> >
> > >> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
> > >> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of
> > it
> > >> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
> > >> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT,
> > >> > so
> > >> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to
> > be
> > >> > hit,
> > >> > so knock 'em over!
> > >> >
> > >> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > >> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > >> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com<http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jason Holder
> > >> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these
> > strategies
> > >> > that
> > >> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
> > >> > > clockwise,
> > >> > on
> > >> > > the track.
> > >> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing
> > >> > > this
> > >> > > often. What is the deal?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that
> > >> > > that
> > >> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
> > >> > pushed
> > >> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses these
> > >> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help
> > but
> > >> > feel
> > >> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion. If
> > doing
> > >> > that
> > >> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > What do ya'll think?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sloppatola
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > >> >
> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Somnambulate some don't
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Domme E. Nation
> > aka Kate Underwood
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo!
> > *Get it Now for Free!* <http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>




------------------------------------

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--
Somnambulate some don't

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3751 From: "qwystn" <qwystn@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:44 am
Subject: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		qwystn
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Oh, I see what you mean now about whole teams not starting on the whistle (just
saw it happen in the Rocky Mountain/Texas game). Yeah that kinda sucks. I didn't
see the Denver game you were referring to, so just thought you meant stopping on
the track to create slow packs, or skating clockwise after you've blocked
someone out. I reckon what you are referring to will probably be clarified in
the next ruleset. No one wants a game where no skating occurs :)

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
<j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> It does have a strong danger factor to it.  Especially if your not expecting
> a team to do it.
>
> In regards to "breaking the pack".  If one team stays put and the other
> continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is breaking the
> pack.  Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if properly
> penalized.  This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving and thus
> a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy.  A very boring
> game could be won by a score of 3-2.
>
> All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in this area as
> they have done in other areas.  Reminds me of the NBA's necessity for a 24
> second clock.
>
> I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will drastically
> effect the sport.  Justified or not.
>
> Sloppatola
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE, although its not
> > that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that concerns me
> > is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I find that
> > dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but its ok to
> > return that way.
> >
> > Dr.Johnny Capote
> > Montreal
> >
> > --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@...>* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Dommie <dommeenation@...>
> > Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
> > To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
> > Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
> > blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
> > player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as I
> > understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) . However,
> > strategically, yes you should take her out :)
> >
> > Domme E. Nation
> > Arch Rival Rollergirl
> >
> > On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo.
com<http://mc/compose?to=riziz101%40yahoo.com>>
> > wrote:
> > > I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the
> > game,
> > > while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to counter
> > > act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is
> > > skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason people
> > do
> > > it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and personally
> > > that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough to
> > skate
> > > back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
> > >
> > > As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to be
> > out
> > > of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4 that do
> > > will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team just stands
> > > there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to the
> > > box.....
> > >
> > > hope that helps
> > >
> > > Corp. PunisHer
> > > DRB
> > >
> > > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups.
com<http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jason Holder
> > > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
> > >>
> > >> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop"
> > (fake
> > >> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do so but
> > >> lacks
> > >> sportsmanship.
> > >> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are
> > within
> > >> the rules.
> > >>
> > >> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never move and
> > >> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes
> > expire?
> > >> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but strategically sound.
> > >>
> > >> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.
> > Just
> > >> my opinion.
> > >>
> > >> Sloppatola
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
> > >> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
> > >> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not.
> > So
> > >> > you
> > >> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> > >> >
> > >> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with
> > >> > playing
> > >> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset,
> > new
> > >> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just
> > 'clever
> > >> > use
> > >> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's
> > amazing
> > >> > how
> > >> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not
> > >> > practicing
> > >> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind.
> > >> > What
> > >> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to
> > >> > know
> > >> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by
> > >> > staying on
> > >> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
> > >> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a
> > new
> > >> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it
> > >> > has
> > >> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use
> > >> > that
> > >> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
> > >> > smashing people anymore.
> > >> >
> > >> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
> > >> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of
> > it
> > >> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
> > >> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT,
> > >> > so
> > >> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to
> > be
> > >> > hit,
> > >> > so knock 'em over!
> > >> >
> > >> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > >> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > >> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups.
com<http://mc/compose?to=rollerderbycoaches%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jason Holder
> > >> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these
> > strategies
> > >> > that
> > >> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
> > >> > > clockwise,
> > >> > on
> > >> > > the track.
> > >> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing
> > >> > > this
> > >> > > often. What is the deal?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that
> > >> > > that
> > >> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
> > >> > pushed
> > >> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses these
> > >> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help
> > but
> > >> > feel
> > >> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion. If
> > doing
> > >> > that
> > >> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > What do ya'll think?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sloppatola
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > >> >
> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Somnambulate some don't
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Domme E. Nation
> > aka Kate Underwood
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo!
> > *Get it Now for Free!* <http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3750 From: Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:19 pm
Subject: Re: catching back up 		sloppy_boggins
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi

We do a relay.  With the girls in groups of all different skill levels they have to perform a series of falls at certain places marked by cones.  One knee, superman, etc and then back again and tag the next person in thier group.  At the far end we usually have 10 push-ups or crunches.  After everyone has gone we change up the falls.

Bare in mind that everyone has been taught how to fall properly.  That's the first thing we teach. 

In doing this they feel compelled to get up fast. Their team mates and us coaches can see how they are doing and what might help.  eg. Often there is this tendency to get up straight rather than leaning forward.  By leaning forward they are already moving in a forward direction.  The toe-stop adding the stability and forward push.  Otherwise they get up and then make the decision to move forward which is substantially slower.

Another problem some have is falling to big.  They often forget to just take a knee or two rather than continue with an out-of-control momentum.  If you take the initiative to fall under control rather than waiting on the out come of fighting to stay up you can save time, fall safely, and get back up quick and easy.

Sloppatola

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Carrie Joshlyn <cjoshlyn@...> wrote:


Hello All!!
I have a group of freshies as well as vets that have a helluva time catching back up with the pack after being hit OOB, falling, etc. Other than these girls needing serious work on there endurance and basic skating skill, are there any other drills anyone could recommend? thanks!!
Typhoid
SCRG
Roanoke, VA






--
Somnambulate some don't

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#3749 From: Carrie Joshlyn <cjoshlyn@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:28 pm
Subject: catching back up 		cjoshlyn
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello All!!
I have a group of freshies as well as vets that have a helluva time catching back up with the pack after being hit OOB, falling, etc. Other than these girls needing serious work on there endurance and basic skating skill, are there any other drills anyone could recommend? thanks!!
Typhoid
SCRG
Roanoke, VA


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#3748 From: Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:45 am
Subject: Re: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		sloppy_boggins
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
It does have a strong danger factor to it.  Especially if your not expecting a team to do it.

In regards to "breaking the pack".  If one team stays put and the other continues it isn't clear, by the rules, that only one team is breaking the pack.  Therefore each team would surrender a player to the box if properly penalized.  This can go on indefinitely with no jammers ever moving and thus a team need only to get the lead and continue this strategy.  A very boring game could be won by a score of 3-2.

All I'm saying is that the rules will need to be fine tuned in this area as they have done in other areas.  Reminds me of the NBA's necessity for a 24 second clock.

I'd also say that if the fans find it boring then that will drastically effect the sport.  Justified or not.

Sloppatola

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@...> wrote:


This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE, although its not that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that concerns me is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I find that dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but its ok to return that way.

Dr.Johnny Capote
Montreal

--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@...> wrote:

From: Dommie <dommeenation@...>
Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM

 

Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as I
understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) . However,
strategically, yes you should take her out :)

Domme E. Nation
Arch Rival Rollergirl

On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo. com> wrote:
> I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the game,
> while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to counter
> act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is
> skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason people do
> it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and personally
> that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough to skate
> back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
>
> As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to be out
> of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4 that do
> will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team just stands
> there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to the
> box.....
>
> hope that helps
>
> Corp. PunisHer
> DRB
>
> --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com, Jason Holder
> <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
>>
>> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
>>
>> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop" (fake
>> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do so but
>> lacks
>> sportsmanship.
>> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are within
>> the rules.
>>
>> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never move and
>> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes expire?
>> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but strategically sound.
>>
>> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me. Just
>> my opinion.
>>
>> Sloppatola
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>>
>> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
>> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
>> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So
>> > you
>> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
>> >
>> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with
>> > playing
>> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new
>> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever
>> > use
>> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing
>> > how
>> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not
>> > practicing
>> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind.
>> > What
>> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to
>> > know
>> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by
>> > staying on
>> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
>> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a new
>> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it
>> > has
>> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use
>> > that
>> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
>> > smashing people anymore.
>> >
>> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
>> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it
>> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
>> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT,
>> > so
>> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to be
>> > hit,
>> > so knock 'em over!
>> >
>> > Kitty DeCapitate
>> > Victorian Roller Derby League
>> > London Rollergirls Alumni
>> >
>> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com, Jason Holder
>> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies
>> > that
>> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
>> > > clockwise,
>> > on
>> > > the track.
>> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing
>> > > this
>> > > often. What is the deal?
>> > >
>> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that
>> > > that
>> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
>> > pushed
>> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses these
>> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but
>> > feel
>> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion. If doing
>> > that
>> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
>> > >
>> > > What do ya'll think?
>> > >
>> > > Sloppatola
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Somnambulate some don't
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Somnambulate some don't
>>
>
>
>

--
Domme E. Nation
aka Kate Underwood

The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free!




--
Somnambulate some don't

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3747 From: johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:22 am
Subject: Re: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		sirjohnnycapote
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
This whole discussion on stopping also happened after ECE, although its not that entertaining, it can be easily countered. The only one that concerns me is returning to play from the penalty box in the referee lane, I find that dangerous. You get a major for going in to the box that way, but its ok to return that way.

Dr.Johnny Capote
Montreal

--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Dommie <dommeenation@...> wrote:

From: Dommie <dommeenation@...>
Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Stopping on the track???
To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:13 PM

 

Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as I
understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed) . However,
strategically, yes you should take her out :)

Domme E. Nation
Arch Rival Rollergirl

On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@yahoo. com> wrote:
> I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the game,
> while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to counter
> act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is
> skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her. The reason people do
> it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and personally
> that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough to skate
> back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
>
> As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to be out
> of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4 that do
> will be subject to other penalties by doing that. If one team just stands
> there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to the
> box.....
>
> hope that helps
>
> Corp. PunisHer
> DRB
>
> --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com, Jason Holder
> <j.voodoowitchdocto r@...> wrote:
>>
>> I never said it was "unfair". If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
>>
>> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop" (fake
>> illegal contact) I cringe. Sure, it is within the rules to do so but
>> lacks
>> sportsmanship.
>> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are within
>> the rules.
>>
>> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there? Never move and
>> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes expire?
>> That would be within the rules. Not a fun game but strategically sound.
>>
>> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me. Just
>> my opinion.
>>
>> Sloppatola
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>>
>> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
>> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
>> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So
>> > you
>> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
>> >
>> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with
>> > playing
>> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new
>> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever
>> > use
>> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing
>> > how
>> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not
>> > practicing
>> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind.
>> > What
>> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to
>> > know
>> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by
>> > staying on
>> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
>> > subsequent rulesets.... it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a new
>> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it
>> > has
>> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use
>> > that
>> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
>> > smashing people anymore.
>> >
>> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
>> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it
>> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
>> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT,
>> > so
>> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to be
>> > hit,
>> > so knock 'em over!
>> >
>> > Kitty DeCapitate
>> > Victorian Roller Derby League
>> > London Rollergirls Alumni
>> >
>> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com, Jason Holder
>> > <j.voodoowitchdocto r@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies
>> > that
>> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
>> > > clockwise,
>> > on
>> > > the track.
>> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing
>> > > this
>> > > often. What is the deal?
>> > >
>> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that
>> > > that
>> > > isn't cool. I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
>> > pushed
>> > > out on the next rules draft. No offense to anyone who uses these
>> > > techniques. In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but
>> > feel
>> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion. If doing
>> > that
>> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
>> > >
>> > > What do ya'll think?
>> > >
>> > > Sloppatola
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Somnambulate some don't
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Somnambulate some don't
>>
>
>
>

--
Domme E. Nation
aka Kate Underwood


The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free!

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3746 From: Dommie <dommeenation@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:13 am
Subject: Re: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		dommeenation
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Hey, in response to the last post, just wanted to point out that
blocking a reverse skating player will not incur a penalty on that
player because she did not initiate the contact (at least as far as I
understand- rules gurus please correct if I am misinformed). However,
strategically, yes you should take her out :)

Domme E. Nation
Arch Rival Rollergirl

On 11/13/09, riziz101 <riziz101@...> wrote:
> I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the game,
> while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to counter
> act that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is
> skating the wrong way so nail her and penalty on her.  The reason people do
> it is number one to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and personally
> that is the only time it should be used or if your skilled enough to skate
> back to back of pack to help your jammer without making contact.
>
> As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to be out
> of play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4 that do
> will be subject to other penalties by doing that.  If one team just stands
> there i would hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to the
> box.....
>
> hope that helps
>
> Corp. PunisHer
> DRB
>
> --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
> <j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>>
>> I never said it was "unfair".  If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
>>
>> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop" (fake
>> illegal contact) I cringe.  Sure, it is within the rules to do so but
>> lacks
>> sportsmanship.
>> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are within
>> the rules.
>>
>> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there?  Never move and
>> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes expire?
>> That would be within the rules.  Not a fun game but strategically sound.
>>
>> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.  Just
>> my opinion.
>>
>> Sloppatola
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>>
>> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
>> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
>> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So
>> > you
>> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
>> >
>> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with
>> > playing
>> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new
>> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever
>> > use
>> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing
>> > how
>> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not
>> > practicing
>> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind.
>> > What
>> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to
>> > know
>> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by
>> > staying on
>> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
>> > subsequent rulesets....it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a new
>> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it
>> > has
>> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use
>> > that
>> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
>> > smashing people anymore.
>> >
>> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
>> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it
>> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
>> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT,
>> > so
>> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to be
>> > hit,
>> > so knock 'em over!
>> >
>> > Kitty DeCapitate
>> > Victorian Roller Derby League
>> > London Rollergirls Alumni
>> >
>> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
>> > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies
>> > that
>> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards,
>> > > clockwise,
>> > on
>> > > the track.
>> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing
>> > > this
>> > > often.  What is the deal?
>> > >
>> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that
>> > > that
>> > > isn't cool.  I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
>> > pushed
>> > > out on the next rules draft.  No offense to anyone who uses these
>> > > techniques.  In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but
>> > feel
>> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.  If doing
>> > that
>> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
>> > >
>> > > What do ya'll think?
>> > >
>> > > Sloppatola
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Somnambulate some don't
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Somnambulate some don't
>>
>
>
>


--
Domme E. Nation
aka Kate Underwood

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3745 From: "riziz101" <riziz101@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:42 am
Subject: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		riziz101
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
I agree with what your saying slop but it brings more strategy to the game,
while it is within the rules to counterclock wise skate, a way to counter act
that is just to block her slighty so she incurs a penalty, she is skating the
wrong way so nail her and penalty on her.  The reason people do it is number one
to rejoin the pack as quickly as possible and personally that is the only time
it should be used or if your skilled enough to skate back to back of pack to
help your jammer without making contact.

As far as skaters just standing there at some point they are going to be out of
play not all 8 blockers would just stand there so those 3 or 4 that do will be
subject to other penalties by doing that.  If one team just stands there i would
hope the ref calls a split pack and their pivot goes to the box.....

hope that helps

Corp. PunisHer
DRB

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
<j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> I never said it was "unfair".  If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
>
> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop" (fake
> illegal contact) I cringe.  Sure, it is within the rules to do so but lacks
> sportsmanship.
> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are within
> the rules.
>
> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there?  Never move and
> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes expire?
> That would be within the rules.  Not a fun game but strategically sound.
>
> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.  Just
> my opinion.
>
> Sloppatola
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So you
> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> >
> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with playing
> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new
> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever use
> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing how
> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not practicing
> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind. What
> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to know
> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by staying on
> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
> > subsequent rulesets....it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a new
> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it has
> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use that
> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
> > smashing people anymore.
> >
> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it
> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT, so
> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to be hit,
> > so knock 'em over!
> >
> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> >
> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
> > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies
> > that
> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards, clockwise,
> > on
> > > the track.
> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing this
> > > often.  What is the deal?
> > >
> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that that
> > > isn't cool.  I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
> > pushed
> > > out on the next rules draft.  No offense to anyone who uses these
> > > techniques.  In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but
> > feel
> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.  If doing
> > that
> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > >
> > > What do ya'll think?
> > >
> > > Sloppatola
> > >
> > > --
> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3744 From: "qwystn" <qwystn@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:35 am
Subject: Re: Strategy 		qwystn
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
ooh, also, how do your blockers roles' change from 'initital pass' to then
subsequent scoring passes?

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, "qwystn" <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> I would love some strategy ideas as well. I was literally about to post on
this subject.
>
> I would like to put together a bunch of different ideas that teams use.
Especially involving specific roles for Blockers---how do you use them on the
track? Obviously sometimes it's going to be reactionary, but I would really like
to make a document with the myriad of different 'default' positions/roles
Blockers will have. Eg: how do you use your Pivot and 2...what is their main
goal when they line up on the Pivot Line? What is their plan B? What do your 3
and 4 do on the Pivot Line? Do they focus on offence or defence first? How much
of it is reactionary to the team they are playing against?
> I would like to give my league, as well as leagues that I coach, as many
different ideas as possible. I find that how you play as a team is dependent on
the skills of the individuals in the squad, so trying different ideas would be
great!
>
> If you want to email offline, feel free.
>
> Kitty DeCapitate
> Victorian Roller Derby League
> London Rollergirls Alumni
>
>
> --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Chaneque Connolly <chaneque@>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi All:
> >
> > I would love some strategy or plays emailed to me too!  If anyone has
> > anything on hand they wouldn't mind sharing!  We don't play WFTDA so
> > you don't have to worry about us playing against you anytime.  =)
> >
> > chaneque@
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Chane´que Connolly
> > -------------------------------
> > aka Ann Thrash, #22
> > Captain, Runaway Brides
> > AZ Derby Dames
> >
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (14)
#3743 From: "qwystn" <qwystn@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:28 am
Subject: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		qwystn
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
I would check in with some certified Refs as I am pretty sure there are rules to
govern the two scenarios you mentioned at the end there, mostly in regards to
destruction of the pack.

As a fan, I LOVE watching this clever type of play :) So I guess derby is in the
eye of the beholder :)
Kitty

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
<j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> I never said it was "unfair".  If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)
>
> In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop" (fake
> illegal contact) I cringe.  Sure, it is within the rules to do so but lacks
> sportsmanship.
> I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are within
> the rules.
>
> So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there?  Never move and
> never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes expire?
> That would be within the rules.  Not a fun game but strategically sound.
>
> As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.  Just
> my opinion.
>
> Sloppatola
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
>
> > Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the
> > track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is
> > legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So you
> > have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.
> >
> > I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with playing
> > 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new
> > strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever use
> > of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing how
> > the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not practicing
> > ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind. What
> > happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to know
> > how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by staying on
> > top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of
> > subsequent rulesets....it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a new
> > ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it has
> > made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use that
> > to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about
> > smashing people anymore.
> >
> > I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone
> > stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it
> > round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for
> > me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT, so
> > charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to be hit,
> > so knock 'em over!
> >
> > Kitty DeCapitate
> > Victorian Roller Derby League
> > London Rollergirls Alumni
> >
> > --- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
> > <j.voodoowitchdoctor@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies
> > that
> > > some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards, clockwise,
> > on
> > > the track.
> > > Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing this
> > > often.  What is the deal?
> > >
> > > I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that that
> > > isn't cool.  I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be
> > pushed
> > > out on the next rules draft.  No offense to anyone who uses these
> > > techniques.  In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but
> > feel
> > > that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.  If doing
> > that
> > > is cool how far can you go with it?
> > >
> > > What do ya'll think?
> > >
> > > Sloppatola
> > >
> > > --
> > > Somnambulate some don't
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3742 From: Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:07 am
Subject: Re: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		sloppy_boggins
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I never said it was "unfair".  If fact it would be unfair to say so. ;)

In theory I agree with you but when I see people in any sport "flop" (fake illegal contact) I cringe.  Sure, it is within the rules to do so but lacks sportsmanship.
I don't think stopping on the track is quite the same but both are within the rules.

So when a team gets the lead can they just stand there?  Never move and never allow the jammers whistle to be blown until every 2 minutes expire?  That would be within the rules.  Not a fun game but strategically sound. 

As a coach I can appreciate it as strategy but as a fan it bores me.  Just my opinion.

Sloppatola

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:53 PM, qwystn <qwystn@...> wrote:
Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the track, however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is legal, but again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So you have to make sure you are still playing within those rules.

I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with playing 'to the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new strategies come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever use of the rules' is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing how the game is developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not practicing ways which to stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind. What happens if you play a team who plays with this strategy? You have to know how to counteract it. The only way you can stay competitive is by staying on top of strategy. Don't worry about whether it will be 'ruled out' of subsequent rulesets....it's easy to adapt. We've had to each time a new ruleset comes out. With the current 'no destroying the pack' rules, it has made the game very much about 'where the pack is', and if you can use that to your advantage, I think that's clever play. Derby isn't just about smashing people anymore.

I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone stopping on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it round the other way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for me?'....remember someone skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT, so charge them! Remember someone stopping on the track is also legit to be hit, so knock 'em over!

Kitty DeCapitate
Victorian Roller Derby League
London Rollergirls Alumni

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies that
> some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards, clockwise, on
> the track.
> Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing this
> often.  What is the deal?
>
> I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that that
> isn't cool.  I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be pushed
> out on the next rules draft.  No offense to anyone who uses these
> techniques.  In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but feel
> that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.  If doing that
> is cool how far can you go with it?
>
> What do ya'll think?
>
> Sloppatola
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>




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--
Somnambulate some don't

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3741 From: "qwystn" <qwystn@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:08 am
Subject: Re: Strategy 		qwystn
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
I would love some strategy ideas as well. I was literally about to post on this
subject.

I would like to put together a bunch of different ideas that teams use.
Especially involving specific roles for Blockers---how do you use them on the
track? Obviously sometimes it's going to be reactionary, but I would really like
to make a document with the myriad of different 'default' positions/roles
Blockers will have. Eg: how do you use your Pivot and 2...what is their main
goal when they line up on the Pivot Line? What is their plan B? What do your 3
and 4 do on the Pivot Line? Do they focus on offence or defence first? How much
of it is reactionary to the team they are playing against?
I would like to give my league, as well as leagues that I coach, as many
different ideas as possible. I find that how you play as a team is dependent on
the skills of the individuals in the squad, so trying different ideas would be
great!

If you want to email offline, feel free.

Kitty DeCapitate
Victorian Roller Derby League
London Rollergirls Alumni


--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Chaneque Connolly <chaneque@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi All:
>
> I would love some strategy or plays emailed to me too!  If anyone has
> anything on hand they wouldn't mind sharing!  We don't play WFTDA so
> you don't have to worry about us playing against you anytime.  =)
>
> chaneque@...
>
> Thanks!
> Chane´que Connolly
> -------------------------------
> aka Ann Thrash, #22
> Captain, Runaway Brides
> AZ Derby Dames
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (14)
#3740 From: "qwystn" <qwystn@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:53 am
Subject: Re: Stopping on the track??? 		qwystn
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Well you're dealing with a few things here...stopping is legal on the track,
however blocking whilst stationary is not. Skating clockwise is legal, but
again, making any contact whilst skating clockwise is not. So you have to make
sure you are still playing within those rules.

I think it's awesome derby personally. There is nothing wrong with playing 'to
the rules'. A smart team is a winning team. With every ruleset, new strategies
come up...whether or not they are 'loopholes' or just 'clever use of the rules'
is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's amazing how the game is
developing, and at the end of the day, if you are not practicing ways which to
stay 'current' with the game, you will be left behind. What happens if you play
a team who plays with this strategy? You have to know how to counteract it. The
only way you can stay competitive is by staying on top of strategy. Don't worry
about whether it will be 'ruled out' of subsequent rulesets....it's easy to
adapt. We've had to each time a new ruleset comes out. With the current 'no
destroying the pack' rules, it has made the game very much about 'where the pack
is', and if you can use that to your advantage, I think that's clever play.
Derby isn't just about smashing people anymore.

I would advise not so much thinking about the 'unfairness' of someone stopping
on the track or skating clockwise, but to actually think of it round the other
way: 'how can I counteract or make that work for me?'....remember someone
skating clockwise is totally legal to BE HIT, so charge them! Remember someone
stopping on the track is also legit to be hit, so knock 'em over!

Kitty DeCapitate
Victorian Roller Derby League
London Rollergirls Alumni

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Jason Holder
<j.voodoowitchdoctor@...> wrote:
>
> I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies that
> some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards, clockwise, on
> the track.
> Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing this
> often.  What is the deal?
>
> I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that that
> isn't cool.  I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be pushed
> out on the next rules draft.  No offense to anyone who uses these
> techniques.  In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but feel
> that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.  If doing that
> is cool how far can you go with it?
>
> What do ya'll think?
>
> Sloppatola
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3739 From: Jason Holder <j.voodoowitchdoctor@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:17 am
Subject: Stopping on the track??? 		sloppy_boggins
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I've been dealing with questions from our girls about these strategies that some teams use involving stopping and even moving backwards, clockwise, on the track. 
Again, I'm watching The nationals right now and I see Denver doing this often.  What is the deal? 

I realize that the rules have holes but it is strongly implied that that isn't cool.  I'm reluctant to utilize these techniques as they may be pushed out on the next rules draft.  No offense to anyone who uses these techniques.  In fact I appreciate the originality but I can't help but feel that it is a "loop hole" and not really derby in my opinion.  If doing that is cool how far can you go with it?

What do ya'll think?

Sloppatola

--
Somnambulate some don't

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (44)
#3738 From: "rocknrollergirluk" <rocknrollergirluk@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:43 am
Subject: New League / Teams to Add - UK 		rocknrollerg...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Hello good people of the derby world...

Please add our new league and teams on myspaz & FB:

Tri-County Rollers League:

FB: http://tinyurl.com/ykmpyep
MY: http://tinyurl.com/yghxkrr

  - New Teams within TCR:

Second City Roller Bullies (Birmingham England)
FB: http://tinyurl.com/yl6pnt3
MY: http://www.myspace.com/secondcityrollerbullies

Redditch Rebel Rollers (Redditch England)
FB: http://tinyurl.com/yjsp6hc
MY: http://www.myspace.com/redditchrebelrollers

Cheers me dears!

Bee Sting #101
TCR / Redditch Rebel Rollers
Founder

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#3737 From: "ivanna_s_pankin" <ivanna_s_pankin@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:39 pm
Subject: TA Winter Training Camp Dec 18-20 		ivanna_s_pankin
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Team Awesome is hosting another training camp - this time in Southern
California!

Where: San Diego Doll House (downtown)
When: Dec 18-20
Who: 10 Team Awesome coaches, 150 skater attendees, 50 local skater-staff, the
SDDD training team, 2 competitive derby teams (Team Awesome and Team SeXY - the
Dude All-Stars), and every ref that can make their way to San Diego
Why: TA offers training for up to 150 intermediate skaters to take their game to
the next level.  Regional refs are co-hosting a concurrent CA Ref Clinic. 
Proceeds from the camp will benefit the San Diego Derby Dolls.

How:
The Team Awesome Camp is an intensive roller derby training weekend for
intermediate and advanced bouting roller derby skaters. Each session is designed
to increase playing level, skills, conditioning and strategic understanding for
skaters with bouting experience. Camp will be coached by Team Awesome skaters
with years of playing and coaching experience. Training will include both banked
and flat track classes and hourly scrimmage opportunities to test new skills in
real-world jams. Group classes and individual coaching will be available.
Limited to the first 150 registrants. TA Training Camp provides an excellent
opportunity to learn advanced strategy and skills to take your game to the next
level, and a phenomenal chance for skater-coaches to learn and bring back
advanced training drills for skills and strategy to their teams.

We're also hosting a grudge match banked track bout on Saturday night that will
be open to campers, sponsors and Derby Dolls.  TEAM AWESOME vs TEAM SEXY (the
dudes that beat TA at RollerCon).

More info about the camp and the coaches, or to purchase tickets:
awesomederby.com

For opinions on the level of awesomeness, ask the Burning River Rollergirls, who
hosted the last TA Camp!

Sincerely, Ivanna S. Pankin
Team Awesome Captain
San Diego Derby Doll

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#3736 From: Jenyfer Ewig <jen.freedomgirl@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:13 pm
Subject: Come join me at 50 Shows in 50 States on girls rock! seattle 		vixen_jenocidal
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
girls rock! seattle
volunteer social network
Jenyfer Ewig
Jenyfer Ewig has invited you to the event '50 Shows in 50 States' on girls rock! seattle!
 
Check out "50 Shows in 50 States" on girls rock! seattle

Jenyfer Ewig

50 Shows in 50 States Time: November 20, 2009 from 8pm to 11:45pm
Location: The High Dive
Organized By: GR!S

Event Description:
Girls Rock! Seattle Proudly Presents 50 Shows in 50 States
Featuring:


GOODNESS
THE REDWOOD PLAN
EIGHTEEN INDIVIDUAL EYES
ALICIA DARA

This Fall, Girls Rock! Seattle will once again join organizations across the country in hosting one of 50 benefit shows to raise money and awareness for the Girls Rock Camp Alliance. The GRCA provides resources and networking opportunities for its affiliate camps including GR!S and promotes the establishment of like-minded institutions worldwide.

Tickets available here: http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/82948

NOTE: No one under 21 years old will be admitted.

See more details and RSVP on girls rock! seattle:
http://girlsrockseattle.ning.com/events/event/show?id=3553949%3AEvent%3A883&xgi=4M5qk3ztb9gXFz&xg_source=msg_invite_event
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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#3735 From: "amy_fister" <amy.fister@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:09 am
Subject: Re: Team Building Activities 		amy_fister
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
We had some intraleague challenges with our team as we had so many brand new
girls playing with vets...

We did "kumbaya" where we sat in a circle and said something positive about the
girl to the right / left. It has to be specific to derby and a skill (not just
"you are a good jammer")

We also did the cheesy trust falls like at summer camp. Off skates, we were in a
tight circle. The girl in the middle closed her eyes and fell backwards, and the
group gently pushed her around the circle and she had to be dead weight.

Simple things like that went a long way for us.

amy fister
charlotte roller girls
charlotte nc

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, Amanda Proko <amanda-jamison@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> I know that a league retreat worked VERY WELL in the past for more then one
group I've worked with.  Camping, the beach, a weekend away watching another
league's big game (or maybe Nationals in Philly? ;) Getting away together
definitely works like a champ! :)
>
> Hugs and Shoves
> Coach Havoc
> NEPA/NJ Independent Coach/ Private Instructor
>
>
>
> To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
> From: j.voodoowitchdoctor@...
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:43:20 -0500
> Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Team Building Activities
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       One thing we did that surprised us how effective it was, was to play
roller hockey.  Yes, we're Cannucks so no surprise there but it seemed to bring
out a playful, positive energy.
> I guess when you're serious about derby playing something else has a lighter
expectation.  It's 'all' about fun.  Strong derbygirls may not be so strong and
weaker derbygirls might thrive.  It just seems to put everything into
perspective and the girls seem to bring that idea of fun back into practice
more.
>
>
> Another is Tag.  We save that for the end of a practice every once in a while.
The girl who is "it" skates aroung trying to get as many others as posible. 
When you are touched you have to freeze until someone else skates through your
legs.  Who is it is determined by a coach or ref and will just switch it up.  Or
you can make a few people "it" and see if they can freeze everyone.
>
>
> Don't get me wrong, our girls have fun at practice but they want to compete
and sometimes the fun element can get lost.  I'd recommend a fun little drill to
break up that serious tone even if it isn't needed.  Side effects include
comaradery which seems to help team building.
>
>
> Not sure if that was what you were looking for?
>
> I know other teams that skydive or bungee jump together for the purpose of
team building by concuring fear together.
>
> Sloppatola
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:00 PM, switchbladerosie <rb2001@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone use any "team building" activities at their practices?  On or off
skates?  Can you recommend some fun ones?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Switchblade Rosie
>
> OKC Roller Derby
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rollerderbycoaches/
>
>
>
>     Individual Email | Traditional
>
>
>
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rollerderbycoaches/join
>
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
>
>
>     rollerderbycoaches-digest@yahoogroups.com
>
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>
>
>
>     rollerderbycoaches-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Somnambulate some don't
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.
>
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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#3734 From: Claudia OKeefe <mathpunk13@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pack Communication 		mathpunk13
Offline Offline
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We also tried this drill this week (you know it's a good one if everyone's using it right away!).  The nifty added benefit to it was change of speed.  We can drill "speed up on one whistle", "slow down on two" or the like, but watching them come around a corner and suddenly sprint to get through the middle before the other skater, or slow down to let the other pass was pretty great.  One of my skaters loved last night's practice since, as she said, I "tricked them into some serious work by making it look like something else". 
 
Thanks!  Keep sharing!
 
Punk'N Pi
Queen City Roller Girls
Buffalo, NY


--- On Tue, 11/10/09, johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@...> wrote:

From: johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@...>
Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Pack Communication
To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 12:43 PM

 
Hey Kelly,

I tried this drill last sunday during our first practice since the off-season. Like you said, at first it was chaotic but the girls insisted on finding the flow to make it work. It was a good way to get them used to traffic before the pack drills. Simple set up, simple drill, quick results.

Dr.Johnny Capote
La Racaille
Montreal Roller Derby

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ yahoo.ca> wrote:

From: Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches ] Re: Pack Communication
To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 6:58 PM

 

Like I said when I posted it, this drill is very hard to visualize, and I wasn't talking about which way to skate the pylons either. This drill isn't just about communicating who is going where and when, but it also brings in cooperation and trust. Two elements that all good teams have to have to be successful. The first time you run this drill, it is a complete gong show, especially if the skaters aren't used to talking to each other. They crash into each other, and use the entire middle to get by each other instead of going thru in 2 straight lines. But as they get the hang of it, they start talking more and saying things to the skater approaching like "you go first, then I'll go." From that simple beginning, they then progress to a few players really taking charge and starting to direct the traffic flow for almost everyone else. The leaders on the team really step it up, and start yelling instructions. When everyone starts to listen and cooperate with each other, the drill flows very smoothly. My girls now can skate this drill with their hands at their sides, because they trust their teammates to be listening and talking, so everyone knows where to be and when to go. In the beginning, they used their hands alot to fend off the other skaters, or to get around each other. Skaters also need to skate with the heads up to look for openings in the traffic flow, and need to do speed changes to slow down or speed up to get thru without colliding with anyone else. I've really found it intersting that the skaters who do most of the talking in this drill are usually playing either the pivot or the 4 position on my team. The jammers rarely say anything at all, but then they tend not to talk much in packs anyway. I only occasionally run this drill at practice now. But when I do, the skaters understand it is because they have stopped communicating in the pack. Once they get how to do it, have them run it with NO TALKING once they get the hang of it. It is almost impossible to run that way. It really underscores the need to speak to each other while in a pack. It will not teach them what to do to communicate in a pack, but it does give them a great idea of why communication is important, and that they all need to work together on the track to be successful. Once they finally understand this concept, then you can move on to building true pack communication. My team tends to yell key words at each other. They are very simple, but do re-direct everyones attention to the task at hand. Even if we can only get 2 or 3 of the blockers working together, it is still way better than 4 blockers working individually. This is really the best I can explain the drill. It is a very conceptual excercise, and is really a building block to introduce the concept of communication, and why it is important. I can talk about an idea until I'm blue in the face, but until they can see, feel, taste whatever I'm trying to tell them, they tend not to listen. This drill shows them in no uncertain terms why they need to communicate. Plain and simple. When we played The LA Derby Dolls in Feb last year, and the Montreal in the spring, we had a serious communication problem. There wasn't any. Nor did we work as a team. They for the most part skated against 5 individuals. This is not true anymore. We now communicate and work together much better. The difference it has made is incredible. The girls are much more comfortable with each other, and know how to "talk" to each other both to get and give help on the track. If we played the same teams again, they would  still win, but not by nearly as much as they did the last time. Sometimes getting your ass handed to you is the best way to learn, about team strenghts,  and weaknesses. Razor Slut told me after the game, that we weren't as bad as the score showed. We just needed to tweak a few things to be a better team. She was right, and communication and not working together were 2 of our failings. We are definitely not the best team around when it comes to the final score, but we are now definitely a team when we hit the track.

Major Agony, OCDG

 

 

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Gillian <gillian@layer9. net> wrote:


From: Gillian <gillian@layer9. net>
Subject: [rollerderbycoaches ] Re: Pack Communication
To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 3:33 AM

 
This drill sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I completely get it. (I mean, girls yelling "outta my way!" at each other probably isn't what you mean by communication. ..) Could you explain what a successful drill looks like? I mean, what sort of things are the girls saying or signalling to each other? "I'm going left, you go right" is about all I can think of. Is there a pack element to this or is it every skater for herself?

I've been pondering about pack communication for a while. I think it works best if you use pre-arranged calls for specific situations. Like "20 feet" to alert the pack when the opposing jammer is approaching the pack, "reset" when the pack needs to reset, the skater's name when you need them to look at you.. Otherwise there's a limited number of things you can yell in a pack that are actually useful, most are confusing or distracting. (My pet hate is "inside!" or "outside!" because if you aren't already looking it's too late and likely already the opposite.)

Thoughts?

G-Force!! Toronto Roller Derby

--- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ ...> wrote:
>
> It depends on how many skaters are in the drill. The more skaters you have the further apart the cones need to be. For 24 skaters, I would put the cones about 8-10' apart.
> I also don't recommend doing this drill with more than 30 people, unless they're split into 2 separate groups. It can get very messy in the beginning.
> Major Agony, OCDG,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Mon, 11/2/09, Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...>
> Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Monday, November 2, 2009, 8:12 AM
>
> This is an excellent exercise and thanks for posting. How far apart do you put the cones at the start?
>
> Also, does anyone else have any other suggestions? This is something we really need to work on as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vital Sadistic
> London Rollergirls
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> This drill is one of my favorites for communication. Unfortunately, I have no idea where I got it from, so I can't credit the originator. This might be a little hard to visualize, so bear with me. Put out 4 pylons in a square. Number them 1, 2, 3, 4. Put an equal amount of girls at each cone.
>  
> 1           2
>  
>  
> 3           4
>  
> The girls at cone 1 skate the cones in this progression. 1,4 3, 2.
> The girls at cone 2 skate  the cones in this progression 2,1,4,3
> etc. You end up having 2 lines of girls crossing from different directions in the middle. If they don't talk to each other, there will be collisions. To make it more difficult once they get the hang of it, move the cones closer together, and/or have random skaters fall on purpose in the middle.
> Once they understand how much easier the drill is using communication, I stop it, and run a regular pack drill. It's surprising how much more chatter there is in the drill now.
>  
> Major Agony, Oil City Derby Girls,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com>
> Subject: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 5:17 AM
>
> I have been trying to teach and show how important it is to communicate in the pack. I know there are different ways of doing this and I was wondering if anyone had any drills or input to help our progression.
>
> Coach Spanx
>
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger .yahoo.com/ webmessengerprom o.php
>


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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (12)
#3733 From: johnny capote <sirjohnnycapote@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:43 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pack Communication 		sirjohnnycapote
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey Kelly,

I tried this drill last sunday during our first practice since the off-season. Like you said, at first it was chaotic but the girls insisted on finding the flow to make it work. It was a good way to get them used to traffic before the pack drills. Simple set up, simple drill, quick results.

Dr.Johnny Capote
La Racaille
Montreal Roller Derby

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@...> wrote:

From: Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@...>
Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Pack Communication
To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 6:58 PM

 

Like I said when I posted it, this drill is very hard to visualize, and I wasn't talking about which way to skate the pylons either. This drill isn't just about communicating who is going where and when, but it also brings in cooperation and trust. Two elements that all good teams have to have to be successful. The first time you run this drill, it is a complete gong show, especially if the skaters aren't used to talking to each other. They crash into each other, and use the entire middle to get by each other instead of going thru in 2 straight lines. But as they get the hang of it, they start talking more and saying things to the skater approaching like "you go first, then I'll go." From that simple beginning, they then progress to a few players really taking charge and starting to direct the traffic flow for almost everyone else. The leaders on the team really step it up, and start yelling instructions. When everyone starts to listen and cooperate with each other, the drill flows very smoothly. My girls now can skate this drill with their hands at their sides, because they trust their teammates to be listening and talking, so everyone knows where to be and when to go. In the beginning, they used their hands alot to fend off the other skaters, or to get around each other. Skaters also need to skate with the heads up to look for openings in the traffic flow, and need to do speed changes to slow down or speed up to get thru without colliding with anyone else. I've really found it intersting that the skaters who do most of the talking in this drill are usually playing either the pivot or the 4 position on my team. The jammers rarely say anything at all, but then they tend not to talk much in packs anyway. I only occasionally run this drill at practice now. But when I do, the skaters understand it is because they have stopped communicating in the pack. Once they get how to do it, have them run it with NO TALKING once they get the hang of it. It is almost impossible to run that way. It really underscores the need to speak to each other while in a pack. It will not teach them what to do to communicate in a pack, but it does give them a great idea of why communication is important, and that they all need to work together on the track to be successful. Once they finally understand this concept, then you can move on to building true pack communication. My team tends to yell key words at each other. They are very simple, but do re-direct everyones attention to the task at hand. Even if we can only get 2 or 3 of the blockers working together, it is still way better than 4 blockers working individually. This is really the best I can explain the drill. It is a very conceptual excercise, and is really a building block to introduce the concept of communication, and why it is important. I can talk about an idea until I'm blue in the face, but until they can see, feel, taste whatever I'm trying to tell them, they tend not to listen. This drill shows them in no uncertain terms why they need to communicate. Plain and simple. When we played The LA Derby Dolls in Feb last year, and the Montreal in the spring, we had a serious communication problem. There wasn't any. Nor did we work as a team. They for the most part skated against 5 individuals. This is not true anymore. We now communicate and work together much better. The difference it has made is incredible. The girls are much more comfortable with each other, and know how to "talk" to each other both to get and give help on the track. If we played the same teams again, they would  still win, but not by nearly as much as they did the last time. Sometimes getting your ass handed to you is the best way to learn, about team strenghts,  and weaknesses. Razor Slut told me after the game, that we weren't as bad as the score showed. We just needed to tweak a few things to be a better team. She was right, and communication and not working together were 2 of our failings. We are definitely not the best team around when it comes to the final score, but we are now definitely a team when we hit the track.

Major Agony, OCDG

 

 

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Gillian <gillian@layer9. net> wrote:


From: Gillian <gillian@layer9. net>
Subject: [rollerderbycoaches ] Re: Pack Communication
To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 3:33 AM

 
This drill sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I completely get it. (I mean, girls yelling "outta my way!" at each other probably isn't what you mean by communication. ..) Could you explain what a successful drill looks like? I mean, what sort of things are the girls saying or signalling to each other? "I'm going left, you go right" is about all I can think of. Is there a pack element to this or is it every skater for herself?

I've been pondering about pack communication for a while. I think it works best if you use pre-arranged calls for specific situations. Like "20 feet" to alert the pack when the opposing jammer is approaching the pack, "reset" when the pack needs to reset, the skater's name when you need them to look at you.. Otherwise there's a limited number of things you can yell in a pack that are actually useful, most are confusing or distracting. (My pet hate is "inside!" or "outside!" because if you aren't already looking it's too late and likely already the opposite.)

Thoughts?

G-Force!! Toronto Roller Derby

--- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ ...> wrote:
>
> It depends on how many skaters are in the drill. The more skaters you have the further apart the cones need to be. For 24 skaters, I would put the cones about 8-10' apart.
> I also don't recommend doing this drill with more than 30 people, unless they're split into 2 separate groups. It can get very messy in the beginning.
> Major Agony, OCDG,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Mon, 11/2/09, Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...>
> Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Monday, November 2, 2009, 8:12 AM
>
> This is an excellent exercise and thanks for posting. How far apart do you put the cones at the start?
>
> Also, does anyone else have any other suggestions? This is something we really need to work on as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vital Sadistic
> London Rollergirls
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> This drill is one of my favorites for communication. Unfortunately, I have no idea where I got it from, so I can't credit the originator. This might be a little hard to visualize, so bear with me. Put out 4 pylons in a square. Number them 1, 2, 3, 4. Put an equal amount of girls at each cone.
>  
> 1           2
>  
>  
> 3           4
>  
> The girls at cone 1 skate the cones in this progression. 1,4 3, 2.
> The girls at cone 2 skate  the cones in this progression 2,1,4,3
> etc. You end up having 2 lines of girls crossing from different directions in the middle. If they don't talk to each other, there will be collisions. To make it more difficult once they get the hang of it, move the cones closer together, and/or have random skaters fall on purpose in the middle.
> Once they understand how much easier the drill is using communication, I stop it, and run a regular pack drill. It's surprising how much more chatter there is in the drill now.
>  
> Major Agony, Oil City Derby Girls,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com>
> Subject: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 5:17 AM
>
> I have been trying to teach and show how important it is to communicate in the pack. I know there are different ways of doing this and I was wondering if anyone had any drills or input to help our progression.
>
> Coach Spanx
>
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger .yahoo.com/ webmessengerprom o.php
>


Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!


Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (12)
#3732 From: Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@...>
Date: Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:35 pm
Subject: Fw: Re: Re: Pack Communication 		kelly.mcguire97
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Sorry hit tab and sent before I wanted to.
As I was saying. Have them run the drill silently once they get the hang of it. It is almost impossible to run that way. It really underscores the need to speak to each other while in a pack. It will not teach them what to do to communicate in a pack, but it does give them a great idea of why communication is important, and that they all need to work together on the track to be successful. Once they finally understand this concept, then you can move on to building true pack communication. My team tends to yell key words at each other. They are very simple, but do re-direct everyones attention to the task at hand. Even if we can only get 2 or 3 of the blockers working together, it is still way better than 4 blockers working individually. This is really the best I can explain the drill. It is a very conceptual excercise, and is really a building block to introduce the concept of commuication, and why it is important. I can talk about an idea until I'm blue in the face, but until they can see, feel, taste whatever I'm trying to tell them, they tend not to listen. This drill shows them in no uncertain terms why they need to communicate. Plain and simple. When we played The LA Derby Dolls in Feb last year, and the Montreal in the spring, we had a serious communication problem. There wasn't any. Nor did we work as a team. They for the most part skated against 5 individuals. This is not true anymore. We now communicate and work together much better. The difference it has made is incredible. The girls are much more comfortable with each other, and know how to "talk" to each other both to get and give help on the track. If we played the same teams again, they would  still win, but not by nearly as much as they did the last time. Sometimes getting your ass handed to you is the best way to learn, about team strenghts,  and weaknesses. Razor Slut told me after the game, that we weren't as bad as the score showed. We just needed to tweak a few things to be a better team. She was right, and communication and not working together were 2 of our failings. We are definitely not the best team around when it comes to the final score, but we are now definitely a team when we hit the track.
Major Agony, OCDG

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@...> wrote:

From: Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@...>
Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Pack Communication
To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 12:02 PM

Like I said when I posted it, this drill is very hard to visualize, and I wasn't talking about which way to skate the pylons either. This drill isn't just about communicating who is going where and when, but it also brings in cooperation and trust. Two elements that all good teams have to have to be successful. The first time you run this drill, it is a complete gong show, especially if the skaters aren't used to talking to each other. They crash into each other, and use the entire middle to get by each other instead of going thru in 2 straight lines. But as they get the hang of it, they start talking more and saying things to the skater approaching like "you go first, then I'll go." From that simple beginning, they then progress to a few players really taking charge and starting to direct the traffic flow for almost everyone else. The leaders on the team really step it up, and start yelling instructions. When everyone starts to listen and cooperate with each other, the drill flows very smoothly. My girls now can skate this drill with their hands at their sides, because they trust their teammates to be listening and talking, so everyone knows where to be and when to go. In the beginning, they used their hands alot to fend off the other skaters, or to get around each other. Skaters also need to skate with the heads up to look for openings in the traffic flow, and need to do speed changes to slow down or speed up to get thru without colliding with anyone else. I've really found it intersting that the skaters who do most of the talking in this drill are usually playing either the pivot or the 4 position on my team. The jammers rarely say anything at all, but then they tend not to talk much in packs anyway. I only occasionally run this drill at practice now. But when I do, the skaters understand it is because they have stopped communicating in the pack. Once they get how to do it, have them run it with NO TALKING

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Gillian <gillian@...> wrote:

From: Gillian <gillian@...>
Subject: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Pack Communication
To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 3:33 AM

 
This drill sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I completely get it. (I mean, girls yelling "outta my way!" at each other probably isn't what you mean by communication. ..) Could you explain what a successful drill looks like? I mean, what sort of things are the girls saying or signalling to each other? "I'm going left, you go right" is about all I can think of. Is there a pack element to this or is it every skater for herself?

I've been pondering about pack communication for a while. I think it works best if you use pre-arranged calls for specific situations. Like "20 feet" to alert the pack when the opposing jammer is approaching the pack, "reset" when the pack needs to reset, the skater's name when you need them to look at you.. Otherwise there's a limited number of things you can yell in a pack that are actually useful, most are confusing or distracting. (My pet hate is "inside!" or "outside!" because if you aren't already looking it's too late and likely already the opposite.)

Thoughts?

G-Force!! Toronto Roller Derby

--- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ ...> wrote:
>
> It depends on how many skaters are in the drill. The more skaters you have the further apart the cones need to be. For 24 skaters, I would put the cones about 8-10' apart.
> I also don't recommend doing this drill with more than 30 people, unless they're split into 2 separate groups. It can get very messy in the beginning.
> Major Agony, OCDG,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Mon, 11/2/09, Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...>
> Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Monday, November 2, 2009, 8:12 AM
>
> This is an excellent exercise and thanks for posting. How far apart do you put the cones at the start?
>
> Also, does anyone else have any other suggestions? This is something we really need to work on as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vital Sadistic
> London Rollergirls
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> This drill is one of my favorites for communication. Unfortunately, I have no idea where I got it from, so I can't credit the originator. This might be a little hard to visualize, so bear with me. Put out 4 pylons in a square. Number them 1, 2, 3, 4. Put an equal amount of girls at each cone.
>  
> 1           2
>  
>  
> 3           4
>  
> The girls at cone 1 skate the cones in this progression. 1,4 3, 2.
> The girls at cone 2 skate  the cones in this progression 2,1,4,3
> etc. You end up having 2 lines of girls crossing from different directions in the middle. If they don't talk to each other, there will be collisions. To make it more difficult once they get the hang of it, move the cones closer together, and/or have random skaters fall on purpose in the middle.
> Once they understand how much easier the drill is using communication, I stop it, and run a regular pack drill. It's surprising how much more chatter there is in the drill now.
>  
> Major Agony, Oil City Derby Girls,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com>
> Subject: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 5:17 AM
>
> I have been trying to teach and show how important it is to communicate in the pack. I know there are different ways of doing this and I was wondering if anyone had any drills or input to help our progression.
>
> Coach Spanx
>
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger .yahoo.com/ webmessengerprom o.php
>


Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now!


Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free!

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#3731 From: Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@...>
Date: Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pack Communication 		kelly.mcguire97
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Like I said when I posted it, this drill is very hard to visualize, and I wasn't talking about which way to skate the pylons either. This drill isn't just about communicating who is going where and when, but it also brings in cooperation and trust. Two elements that all good teams have to have to be successful. The first time you run this drill, it is a complete gong show, especially if the skaters aren't used to talking to each other. They crash into each other, and use the entire middle to get by each other instead of going thru in 2 straight lines. But as they get the hang of it, they start talking more and saying things to the skater approaching like "you go first, then I'll go." From that simple beginning, they then progress to a few players really taking charge and starting to direct the traffic flow for almost everyone else. The leaders on the team really step it up, and start yelling instructions. When everyone starts to listen and cooperate with each other, the drill flows very smoothly. My girls now can skate this drill with their hands at their sides, because they trust their teammates to be listening and talking, so everyone knows where to be and when to go. In the beginning, they used their hands alot to fend off the other skaters, or to get around each other. Skaters also need to skate with the heads up to look for openings in the traffic flow, and need to do speed changes to slow down or speed up to get thru without colliding with anyone else. I've really found it intersting that the skaters who do most of the talking in this drill are usually playing either the pivot or the 4 position on my team. The jammers rarely say anything at all, but then they tend not to talk much in packs anyway. I only occasionally run this drill at practice now. But when I do, the skaters understand it is because they have stopped communicating in the pack. Once they get how to do it, have them run it with NO TALKING

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Gillian <gillian@...> wrote:

From: Gillian <gillian@...>
Subject: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Pack Communication
To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 3:33 AM

 
This drill sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I completely get it. (I mean, girls yelling "outta my way!" at each other probably isn't what you mean by communication. ..) Could you explain what a successful drill looks like? I mean, what sort of things are the girls saying or signalling to each other? "I'm going left, you go right" is about all I can think of. Is there a pack element to this or is it every skater for herself?

I've been pondering about pack communication for a while. I think it works best if you use pre-arranged calls for specific situations. Like "20 feet" to alert the pack when the opposing jammer is approaching the pack, "reset" when the pack needs to reset, the skater's name when you need them to look at you.. Otherwise there's a limited number of things you can yell in a pack that are actually useful, most are confusing or distracting. (My pet hate is "inside!" or "outside!" because if you aren't already looking it's too late and likely already the opposite.)

Thoughts?

G-Force!! Toronto Roller Derby

--- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ ...> wrote:
>
> It depends on how many skaters are in the drill. The more skaters you have the further apart the cones need to be. For 24 skaters, I would put the cones about 8-10' apart.
> I also don't recommend doing this drill with more than 30 people, unless they're split into 2 separate groups. It can get very messy in the beginning.
> Major Agony, OCDG,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Mon, 11/2/09, Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...>
> Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Monday, November 2, 2009, 8:12 AM
>
> This is an excellent exercise and thanks for posting. How far apart do you put the cones at the start?
>
> Also, does anyone else have any other suggestions? This is something we really need to work on as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vital Sadistic
> London Rollergirls
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> This drill is one of my favorites for communication. Unfortunately, I have no idea where I got it from, so I can't credit the originator. This might be a little hard to visualize, so bear with me. Put out 4 pylons in a square. Number them 1, 2, 3, 4. Put an equal amount of girls at each cone.
>  
> 1           2
>  
>  
> 3           4
>  
> The girls at cone 1 skate the cones in this progression. 1,4 3, 2.
> The girls at cone 2 skate  the cones in this progression 2,1,4,3
> etc. You end up having 2 lines of girls crossing from different directions in the middle. If they don't talk to each other, there will be collisions. To make it more difficult once they get the hang of it, move the cones closer together, and/or have random skaters fall on purpose in the middle.
> Once they understand how much easier the drill is using communication, I stop it, and run a regular pack drill. It's surprising how much more chatter there is in the drill now.
>  
> Major Agony, Oil City Derby Girls,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com>
> Subject: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 5:17 AM
>
> I have been trying to teach and show how important it is to communicate in the pack. I know there are different ways of doing this and I was wondering if anyone had any drills or input to help our progression.
>
> Coach Spanx
>
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger .yahoo.com/ webmessengerprom o.php
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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (12)
#3730 From: Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@...>
Date: Tue Nov 3, 2009 11:58 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pack Communication 		kelly.mcguire97
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Like I said when I posted it, this drill is very hard to visualize, and I wasn't talking about which way to skate the pylons either. This drill isn't just about communicating who is going where and when, but it also brings in cooperation and trust. Two elements that all good teams have to have to be successful. The first time you run this drill, it is a complete gong show, especially if the skaters aren't used to talking to each other. They crash into each other, and use the entire middle to get by each other instead of going thru in 2 straight lines. But as they get the hang of it, they start talking more and saying things to the skater approaching like "you go first, then I'll go." From that simple beginning, they then progress to a few players really taking charge and starting to direct the traffic flow for almost everyone else. The leaders on the team really step it up, and start yelling instructions. When everyone starts to listen and cooperate with each other, the drill flows very smoothly. My girls now can skate this drill with their hands at their sides, because they trust their teammates to be listening and talking, so everyone knows where to be and when to go. In the beginning, they used their hands alot to fend off the other skaters, or to get around each other. Skaters also need to skate with the heads up to look for openings in the traffic flow, and need to do speed changes to slow down or speed up to get thru without colliding with anyone else. I've really found it intersting that the skaters who do most of the talking in this drill are usually playing either the pivot or the 4 position on my team. The jammers rarely say anything at all, but then they tend not to talk much in packs anyway. I only occasionally run this drill at practice now. But when I do, the skaters understand it is because they have stopped communicating in the pack. Once they get how to do it, have them run it with NO TALKING once they get the hang of it. It is almost impossible to run that way. It really underscores the need to speak to each other while in a pack. It will not teach them what to do to communicate in a pack, but it does give them a great idea of why communication is important, and that they all need to work together on the track to be successful. Once they finally understand this concept, then you can move on to building true pack communication. My team tends to yell key words at each other. They are very simple, but do re-direct everyones attention to the task at hand. Even if we can only get 2 or 3 of the blockers working together, it is still way better than 4 blockers working individually. This is really the best I can explain the drill. It is a very conceptual excercise, and is really a building block to introduce the concept of communication, and why it is important. I can talk about an idea until I'm blue in the face, but until they can see, feel, taste whatever I'm trying to tell them, they tend not to listen. This drill shows them in no uncertain terms why they need to communicate. Plain and simple. When we played The LA Derby Dolls in Feb last year, and the Montreal in the spring, we had a serious communication problem. There wasn't any. Nor did we work as a team. They for the most part skated against 5 individuals. This is not true anymore. We now communicate and work together much better. The difference it has made is incredible. The girls are much more comfortable with each other, and know how to "talk" to each other both to get and give help on the track. If we played the same teams again, they would  still win, but not by nearly as much as they did the last time. Sometimes getting your ass handed to you is the best way to learn, about team strenghts,  and weaknesses. Razor Slut told me after the game, that we weren't as bad as the score showed. We just needed to tweak a few things to be a better team. She was right, and communication and not working together were 2 of our failings. We are definitely not the best team around when it comes to the final score, but we are now definitely a team when we hit the track.

Major Agony, OCDG

 

 

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Gillian <gillian@...> wrote:


From: Gillian <gillian@...>
Subject: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Pack Communication
To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 3:33 AM

 
This drill sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I completely get it. (I mean, girls yelling "outta my way!" at each other probably isn't what you mean by communication. ..) Could you explain what a successful drill looks like? I mean, what sort of things are the girls saying or signalling to each other? "I'm going left, you go right" is about all I can think of. Is there a pack element to this or is it every skater for herself?

I've been pondering about pack communication for a while. I think it works best if you use pre-arranged calls for specific situations. Like "20 feet" to alert the pack when the opposing jammer is approaching the pack, "reset" when the pack needs to reset, the skater's name when you need them to look at you.. Otherwise there's a limited number of things you can yell in a pack that are actually useful, most are confusing or distracting. (My pet hate is "inside!" or "outside!" because if you aren't already looking it's too late and likely already the opposite.)

Thoughts?

G-Force!! Toronto Roller Derby

--- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ ...> wrote:
>
> It depends on how many skaters are in the drill. The more skaters you have the further apart the cones need to be. For 24 skaters, I would put the cones about 8-10' apart.
> I also don't recommend doing this drill with more than 30 people, unless they're split into 2 separate groups. It can get very messy in the beginning.
> Major Agony, OCDG,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Mon, 11/2/09, Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...>
> Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Monday, November 2, 2009, 8:12 AM
>
> This is an excellent exercise and thanks for posting. How far apart do you put the cones at the start?
>
> Also, does anyone else have any other suggestions? This is something we really need to work on as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vital Sadistic
> London Rollergirls
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> This drill is one of my favorites for communication. Unfortunately, I have no idea where I got it from, so I can't credit the originator. This might be a little hard to visualize, so bear with me. Put out 4 pylons in a square. Number them 1, 2, 3, 4. Put an equal amount of girls at each cone.
>  
> 1           2
>  
>  
> 3           4
>  
> The girls at cone 1 skate the cones in this progression. 1,4 3, 2.
> The girls at cone 2 skate  the cones in this progression 2,1,4,3
> etc. You end up having 2 lines of girls crossing from different directions in the middle. If they don't talk to each other, there will be collisions. To make it more difficult once they get the hang of it, move the cones closer together, and/or have random skaters fall on purpose in the middle.
> Once they understand how much easier the drill is using communication, I stop it, and run a regular pack drill. It's surprising how much more chatter there is in the drill now.
>  
> Major Agony, Oil City Derby Girls,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com>
> Subject: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 5:17 AM
>
> I have been trying to teach and show how important it is to communicate in the pack. I know there are different ways of doing this and I was wondering if anyone had any drills or input to help our progression.
>
> Coach Spanx
>
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger .yahoo.com/ webmessengerprom o.php
>


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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (12)
#3729 From: fromart2ashes@...
Date: Thu Nov 5, 2009 10:15 pm
Subject: Video of OK vs TX - Oct. 30th 		suzi_uzi44
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
IT'S FINISHED! Watch the video clip from the bout between Red Dirt Rebellion-OKC (vs) Route 66 Rollergirls-Amarillo,TX
 
The bout was a HUGE success!!! We finally played in the MAIN ARENA at the OKC Cox Convention Center :) Thank you to everyone who has brought roller derby to the main stream as a real SPORT!!! :) And especially thank you to the skaters / volunteers / bout production / fearleaders / etc... who helped produce such an amazing event in Oklahoma City.
 
Final score:
OKC: 104
Amarillo: 39
 
Suzi Uzi
Coach / Co-Founder
Red Dirt Rebellion Rollergirls
Oklahoma Banked Track Roller Derby
www.reddirtrebellion.com
contact@...
fromart2ashes@...

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#3728 From: Slay West <slaywest@...>
Date: Fri Nov 6, 2009 12:42 am
Subject: Re: Re:Strategy 		slay_west
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks everyone for your responses.  They were all very helpful!!
 
Slay West
CNY Roller Derby

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Sarah Kingan <sarahdoom@...> wrote:

From: Sarah Kingan <sarahdoom@...>
Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Re:Strategy
To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 1:22 PM

 
Bear with this novel...

I find it helpful to work up to strategy drills by spending 10-15 minutes working on the actual skills involved in the drill. For the drill you described, I would start out with skaters in pairs and have them work on booty blocking each other. Then I would add the third skater to hit the trapped jammer. You can have a few groups of 3 working on the track at the same time and give each group feedback. Then, you could work this into a line drill to really give the skaters several chances to practice the move once they get it right. For the "goat drill", I would have skaters practice in pairs, hitting each other out of bounds and slowing down, before I added the complexity of all 4 skaters. Sometimes sloppy play can get in the way of a drill that requires more thought, so if you have the skaters get the moves down, they can then focus mentally on WHAT they are doing rather than HOW they are doing it.

It is also helpful to have a couple skaters demo the positions in slo-mo. Or pull a few of the stronger skaters aside, explain the drill to them in advance, and have them demo while you talk the skaters through it.

When you start out with a new strategy I tell the skaters to allow the move to be executed on the first few times, and then gradually increase the intensity and allow skaters to counter act the move. Its important for people to see something work successfully a few times to truly understand it. Skaters may complain that it is artificial to put constraints on their play. But like in all sports, all drills are artificial. The intent is to build the muscle memory and intuition so that you are able to recognize and situation in which a particular strategy will work, and be able to execute it smoothy. You want to get the thinking out of the way at practice and it will become second nature in a game. For some skaters it can help them to think about particular bout scenarios in which the strategy your practicing will be useful.

Hope this helps,

Sarah Doom
Founder, Providence Roller Derby
Co-Founder, Boston Derby Dames
A Team Coach, Roc City Roller Derby (Rochester, NY)





On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Deuce Gunner <holder_carly@ yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Let me know if you need some strategy drills. I can definitely help you with that. As far as explaining it to them, I think you just have to have a few girls that can do it well, and understand and have them demonstrate. If your skaters still don't get it. they just need time, and tell them to go to  www.rollersport. tv  , they have tons of recorded bouts they can watch. Perhaps they just need to know a little more about then game!

.

yahoosig.jpg picture by deucegunner


--- On Thu, 11/5/09, slay_west <slaywest@cnyrollerd erby.com> wrote:

From: slay_west <slaywest@cnyrollerd erby.com>
Subject: [rollerderbycoaches] Strategy
To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 8:31 AM


 
I think that I'm going to phrase this funny, but here goes:

Does anyone have any tips for teaching more specific strategies during practice? Everyone time I try to do a strategy type drill, I don't think some of the girls understand what the point of the drill is.

For example, at practice the other day I had groups of three where one girl was a jammer and the other two were blockers on the same team. One blocker booty blocks the jammer while the other hits the jammer. I told them that this was not a drill where the jammer tries to get around the blocker and has to let the other blocker hit them. It was also not at 100% so we could just get a sense of the particular idea.

Maybe what I really need is just a better way to explain why we practice some things in that particular way.

Thanks in advance.

Slay West
CNY Roller Derby
www.cnyrollerderby. com





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Department of Biology
University of Rochester
Rochester, NY 14627
Office: 585/275.4509
Lab: 585/276.2183

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (14)
#3727 From: south jersey <sjderbygirls@...>
Date: Tue Nov 3, 2009 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pack Communication 		sjderbygirls
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
We did this last night. While it was fun and good for agility. Practically noone needed to talk. We had 30+ people going through at once, and noone collided. If they were close to running into someone they would just go "wohhh". But was really fun...we kept moving the cones in 4 feet at a time to see how small we could go. We ended up with a 5X5 box.
 
Mos Deathly
SJDG

--- On Mon, 11/2/09, Gillian <gillian@...> wrote:

From: Gillian <gillian@...>
Subject: [rollerderbycoaches] Re: Pack Communication
To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 10:33 PM

 
This drill sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I completely get it. (I mean, girls yelling "outta my way!" at each other probably isn't what you mean by communication. ..) Could you explain what a successful drill looks like? I mean, what sort of things are the girls saying or signalling to each other? "I'm going left, you go right" is about all I can think of. Is there a pack element to this or is it every skater for herself?

I've been pondering about pack communication for a while. I think it works best if you use pre-arranged calls for specific situations. Like "20 feet" to alert the pack when the opposing jammer is approaching the pack, "reset" when the pack needs to reset, the skater's name when you need them to look at you.. Otherwise there's a limited number of things you can yell in a pack that are actually useful, most are confusing or distracting. (My pet hate is "inside!" or "outside!" because if you aren't already looking it's too late and likely already the opposite.)

Thoughts?

G-Force!! Toronto Roller Derby

--- In rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ ...> wrote:
>
> It depends on how many skaters are in the drill. The more skaters you have the further apart the cones need to be. For 24 skaters, I would put the cones about 8-10' apart.
> I also don't recommend doing this drill with more than 30 people, unless they're split into 2 separate groups. It can get very messy in the beginning.
> Major Agony, OCDG,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Mon, 11/2/09, Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Vital Sadistic <vitalsadistic@ ...>
> Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Monday, November 2, 2009, 8:12 AM
>
> This is an excellent exercise and thanks for posting. How far apart do you put the cones at the start?
>
> Also, does anyone else have any other suggestions? This is something we really need to work on as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vital Sadistic
> London Rollergirls
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Kelly McGuire <kelly.mcguire97@ yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> This drill is one of my favorites for communication. Unfortunately, I have no idea where I got it from, so I can't credit the originator. This might be a little hard to visualize, so bear with me. Put out 4 pylons in a square. Number them 1, 2, 3, 4. Put an equal amount of girls at each cone.
>  
> 1           2
>  
>  
> 3           4
>  
> The girls at cone 1 skate the cones in this progression. 1,4 3, 2.
> The girls at cone 2 skate  the cones in this progression 2,1,4,3
> etc. You end up having 2 lines of girls crossing from different directions in the middle. If they don't talk to each other, there will be collisions. To make it more difficult once they get the hang of it, move the cones closer together, and/or have random skaters fall on purpose in the middle.
> Once they understand how much easier the drill is using communication, I stop it, and run a regular pack drill. It's surprising how much more chatter there is in the drill now.
>  
> Major Agony, Oil City Derby Girls,
> Edmonton
>
> --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Shane <deadcasper76@ yahoo.com>
> Subject: [rollerderbycoaches ] Pack Communication
> To: rollerderbycoaches@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 5:17 AM
>
> I have been trying to teach and show how important it is to communicate in the pack. I know there are different ways of doing this and I was wondering if anyone had any drills or input to help our progression.
>
> Coach Spanx
>
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger .yahoo.com/ webmessengerprom o.php
>



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (12)
#3726 From: "masterblasterno2" <molly.stenzel@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:42 pm
Subject: Re: Pack Communication 		masterblaste...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
My biggest lesson to my players about communication is that it comes down to
trust.  If you don't trust your teammate, then why should you listen to them?
This has had a two-fold result:

1. Players have really stepped up their personal knowledge of the game and
tactic.

2. My players are a team and feel that everytime they talk in play.

We work on this 2 ways:

1. Constant communicating.  We will run jams with everyone talking the entire
jam through.  Where are you? What do you see? It almöst doesn't mater what you
are saying as long as it's relvant and NON-STOP.  This helps you tune into what
is important as well.

2. I will pair up skaters and have one skate blind while the other directs her. 
Eyes closed at a normal pace with other blind skaters on the track and only your
teammate to help you.  When you trust your teammates it's a blast!

Master Blaster
Bear City Roller Derby
Berlin

--- In rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com, "Shane" <deadcasper76@...> wrote:
>
> I have been trying to teach and show how important it is to communicate in the
pack. I know there are different ways of doing this and I was wondering if
anyone had any drills or input to help our progression.
>
> Coach Spanx
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (12)
#3725 From: Amanda Proko <amanda-jamison@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:21 am
Subject: RE: Team Building Activities 		bionicderbyb...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

I know that a league retreat worked VERY WELL in the past for more then one group I've worked with.  Camping, the beach, a weekend away watching another league's big game (or maybe Nationals in Philly? ;) Getting away together definitely works like a champ! :)

Hugs and Shoves
Coach Havoc
NEPA/NJ Independent Coach/ Private Instructor



To: rollerderbycoaches@yahoogroups.com
From: j.voodoowitchdoctor@...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:43:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [rollerderbycoaches] Team Building Activities

 
One thing we did that surprised us how effective it was, was to play roller hockey.  Yes, we're Cannucks so no surprise there but it seemed to bring out a playful, positive energy. 
I guess when you're serious about derby playing something else has a lighter expectation.  It's 'all' about fun.  Strong derbygirls may not be so strong and weaker derbygirls might thrive.  It just seems to put everything into perspective and the girls seem to bring that idea of fun back into practice more.

Another is Tag.  We save that for the end of a practice every once in a while.  The girl who is "it" skates aroung trying to get as many others as posible.  When you are touched you have to freeze until someone else skates through your legs.  Who is it is determined by a coach or ref and will just switch it up.  Or you can make a few people "it" and see if they can freeze everyone.

Don't get me wrong, our girls have fun at practice but they want to compete and sometimes the fun element can get lost.  I'd recommend a fun little drill to break up that serious tone even if it isn't needed.  Side effects include comaradery which seems to help team building.

Not sure if that was what you were looking for?

I know other teams that skydive or bungee jump together for the purpose of team building by concuring fear together. 

Sloppatola


On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:00 PM, switchbladerosie <rb2001@hotmail.com> wrote:
Does anyone use any "team building" activities at their practices?  On or off skates?  Can you recommend some fun ones?

Thanks,
Switchblade Rosie
OKC Roller Derby



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