I did not mean that LARA was slamming LISA, I was
making a mroe genral statemtn about PEOPLE slamming
tehr people when they decide to sell.  I felt it was a
little "confrontational" on Lara's part, but not
slamming.  However, I won't back down from my opinion
of rescue organizations and how they operate, it makes
no sense.  My apology to lara, no "slamming" criticism
meant to be directed at her


--- horseforce17 <mymymystery@...> wrote:
> Ok, you guys, STOP right there.
> I don't see that anyone was slamming anyone here. I
> think Lara
> simply asked Lisa why she was selling RRated, as we
> all thought
> everything was going hunky dory with him. I see no
> slamming. PERIOD.
> It was simply a friendly inquiry, which when I read
> Lisa's post, I
> wondered myself how come RRated was being sold and I
> don't think
> that asking a simply question such as Lara did has a
> single thing to
> do with slamming. It was obviously curiosity (and
> I'm glad she asked
> because if she hadn't I would have.)
> If Lisa felt "slammed" I'm sure she would have said
> so herself.
> I see absolutely NOTHING in Lara's post that is
> accusing or anything
> of the sort. And just because Lara works for the UPF
> doesn;t mean
> she is slamming by asking how come RRated is for
> sale, and it also
> doesn't make her a "rescue sort" that condemns
> selling horses as
> obviously she is in the retraining/reselling
> business herself.
>
> I fail to understand where all this
> hyper-sensitivity comes from,
> how could ya'll possibly read a slam into Lara's
> simple, friendly
> question????
> Besides, whenever I'm interested in buying a horse
> for sale from a
> private person, not a trainer or breeder, I'd like
> to know how come
> the horse is for sale. Is there something wrong with
> the horse or is
> it simply a matter of finances, as is the case with
> Lisa?
>
> Like I said, Lisa is a grown person, and if she felt
> like she was
> being slammed by Lara's inquiry, she would have said
> so herself.
> Alluding to Lara's question in a manner that she was
> slamming Lisa
> for selling RRated was INAPPROPRIATE and uncalled
> for.
> Sheeesh.
> Tre
>
>


=====
Carrie Everhart
Shawnee Acres
Wilson, NC

http://www.freewebs.com/shawnee_acres

__________________________________
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----- Original Message -----

From: Mandy

To: retraintbs@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:17 PM

Subject: [retraintbs] Re: to Ivy

Ivy,

As soon as someone sends the sun to Pittsburgh, PA and it stays long
enough to dry the ground so I can get Trevor to my trainers house so
I can start to ride, I'll be sure to pass it on to all in NY - but
until then, if I can't have it neither can you!!!

Congrats on your progress!  I know how you feel about wanting to get
on your horse!  It's only been 5 months for me and I'm having
withdrawl!!!

Have fun now that you can ride - even if it just walking - there's
nothing like the feeling of sitting on your horses back!

Mandy



"I am still under the impression that there is nothing alive quite so beautiful as a Thoroughbred horse." -John Galsworthy

Please Laurie,
Do not go.
I read these list buy rarely post and i personally value what you have to
say about things.
I did not read any disrespect in you questioning wht sell. I wa wondering
too.
Nothing wrong with that. I think you were flamed.
Donna

How fast does the raw rice bran have to be used before it goes bad?

----- Original Message -----

From: Lara Leigh

To: retraintbs@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:24 AM

Subject: Re: [retraintbs] TB Gelding for sale - N. Calif.

OK - I am out of here.

 

Nice knowing all of you but I do not need this crap.  I have been on this list for YEARS and I feel totally disrespected.

 

BYE BYE.

 

-Lara

"I am still under the impression that there is nothing alive quite so beautiful as a Thoroughbred horse." -John Galsworthy

Agreed!  I think you two women are both valuable members of this
list.  Lara, I have been on this list for years also...mostly as a
lurker...but I have learned a lot from you and I think you are an
extrememly knowledgeable and generous woman and it would be a shame
to lose you.

Lately I see this list as kind of the "Lara and Carrie" show.  Not in
a bad way ; )  I think you guys should just agree to disagree on some
points and NO ONE should be leaving the group.

Lara if you do decide to leave I'm sure I'll still talk to you on
COTH (I'm Lucky Roll).

Nora

----- Original Message -----

From: SBmarino@...

To: retraintbs@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 8:41 AM

Subject: [retraintbs] Re:

Lara Leigh
writes:

But then, I think Strasser, in her literature and ideas, does that with the horses that are nto bad cases.  I think she gets a bad rap sometimes because most of her test subjects are horses that were on the verge of being put down because their feet were so bad.  A lot of people do not understand that. 

  Lara.  I am in total agreement with you on all which you are saying. 

    A long time ago, long before Strasser showed up, my horses went barefoot for the very simple reason that I just couldn't afford shoes on the horses, so they had to make due, and so they did.  It is much easier to start barefoot right from the start and never even bother putting shoes on.  I learned how to trim my own horses after one of my TB mares stuck her foot in a fence and just about ripped it off.  It took a very long time to rehabilitate, and if she hadn't been pregnaant at the time, I might have even opted to have her put down as it really was a bad scene.  She ended up losing a bone in her foot near the bulb of one heel, and because there was no other way, I had to 'rebuild'  her foot, so she would have a bearing surface on that side.
Following a long rehab time, she eventually ended up being pretty sound on that foot, but she was only a broodmare, so she could use that foot at her own free will.
But, because I just had no choice, I learned to trim her foot frequently to keep her balanced, and that alone taught me a lot.  With the horses I breed and raise, I have to do almost no trimming as they are out 24/7 and move about pretty regularly.  That doesn't mean that they all have perfect feet, and I think you just have to deal with each horse individually.  Just like any other living thing, nothing is perfect, but you try to do the best you can for each individual horse.  Some has to do with breeding.  My QHs - or those who have a lot of QH in them- tend to have smaller feet, and one of my guy has naturally narrow heals, so I have to pay more attention to him that to my TBs who tend to not grow as much heals.  In fact, I think the TBs benefit a lot from going barefoot as they tend to have thinner walls, and all that nailing just isn't good for them.
   The interesting thing to me is that actually, the more natural hoof mechanism the horses get, the faster the hoof grows, and this MAY be one reason why a heavily ridden horse might wear their feet down faster than what they can naturally grow, so I don't know about these cases, and whether there are indded some horses which will need shoes just for that reason. 
   I'm not a fanatic about any of these things, but will try my best to do what's best and healthiest for the horses.  I am still not convinced that horses which don't get 24/7 turnout cannot go barefooted.  If they get ridden regularly or at least exercised well once or twice a day, that may accumulate into enough stimulation and still offer good hoof mechanism.  Regularity is the key here, I think.  For the most part, if the right horses get turned out together, they will play and move about for a good while, and if they get ridden well at least once/day, that may, as I said, suffice.

   And as you are saying above, Strasser works mainly with problem feet, and people must understand that many of these problems took a while to come about and will take a good while to be turned around.
   I have a dear friend, a fanatic animal lover, whose home bred horse fell ill with EPM.  It was a long time of touch and go, and any regular person would perhaps have called it quits, but not this friend.  Miraculously, the horse pulled through [it was really a bad case], but was left foundered badly.  I had introduced her to the Strasser method and even bought the books for her to read, so she tried to work together with her vet and ferrier, but the horse kept abscessing for nearly two years, and it was very frustrating as my friend is a busy lawyer, and just can't do all the soaking that is required.  She finally yielded to the advice of her vet, and they put shoes back on him which he had most of his life in front anyway before.  This hasn't been started too long ago, and we shall see how the horse will do.  So far, no abscessing.....
  What can I say?  No two cases are the same?  For the most part, we have to make due with what is available.
    Most people either can't do their own trimming for whatever reason; others can't get a trimmer who is knowledgeable enough to do the Strasser trim.  Others can't afford to have a ferrier out once/week, unless they are at a boarding stable, and he's there often....

  What is important, I think, is to be informed and knowing various options and do the best you can for your horse.

Sabine


"I am still under the impression that there is nothing alive quite so beautiful as a Thoroughbred horse." -John Galsworthy

Hi everyone-
I wanted to get one of those Natural Horsemanship halters and then
checked the prices and almost fainted!!! Anyways, so I figured that
I'd make my own. I found several different instructions on the web
but I'm wondering, does anyone here KNOW whether a Natural
Horsemanship Halter is made of Fiador knots or other knots? The
instructions I found either call for the Fiador knots, or a
different type of halter is using another kind of, simpler knot.
I want the halter to work "properly", so which is the right way?
Thanks :o)
Tre

I'm totally stunned here!!!
I don;t want either of you to leave this list!!!! I'm sure I speak
for most everyone else here as well.
This is not so hard to figure out... we all have to sit back and try
not to over-react to things people ask or say.
We all have our opinions and that's fine. But I really think that
reacting in such a way to someone else that both parties than want
to quit being on this list, ladies, come on, we're not teenagers (no
offense Kelsey you know I love you and your grown self), there
really is no reason to be going through all this.
Now shake hands and forget this happened.
I mean it! Or else!!! <G>
Tre

Enjoyed meeting you all, Lara is upset and I don't
feel I was getting on HER but on people in general,
she sounded confrontational, I misread that
apparently, so I am now taking myself off the lsit

Carrie

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My apologeis, however I felt you sounded
confrontational, I will get off the lsit, that way you
won't feel "disrespected"

Carrie
--- Lara Leigh <LaraLeigh@...> wrote:
> OK - I am out of here.
>
> Nice knowing all of you but I do not need this crap.
>  I have been on this list for YEARS and I feel
> totally disrespected.
>
> BYE BYE.
>
> -Lara


=====
Carrie Everhart
Shawnee Acres
Wilson, NC

http://www.freewebs.com/shawnee_acres

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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Carrie:

Are you attacking me now just for inquiring?  When I sell horses and people
ask me why I am selling - I think it is a legitimate question.  JEEZ.
Sometimes I wonder why you always seem to attack the things I say on here.

And what are you talking about "rescue groups" that won;t allow you to sell
horses?  Where in the hell did that come from?  Are you trying to say that
the UPF doesn't allow people to sell their horses?
I will have you know that we welcome people to sell their horses but due to
our mission and our contract - we require people to inform us where they go
and who bought them.  If they do not agree to do that - then they do not
adopt horses from us in the first place.  We do not care about anyone's
agenda - except our mission - as once a horse is under our roof - they
always have that roof.  For instance, we just want to make sure the horse is
always taken care of and never ends up neglected or abused again and we also
offer a free retirement.

You know what - your email is a serious pet peeve of mine - to turn around
with your capital letters and scream in writing at me.

Now, if anyone wants to slam me on this and if I start reading emails like
this directed at me - I AM OUT OF HERE.  I do not need to spend 24-7 on
rescuing horses and trying to rehab horses that are in very bad shape -
train dangerous horses and spend all my time trying to raise money for a
nonprofit and then read this kind of email.  It total breaks my heart.

-Lara

--- In retraintbs@yahoogroups.com, SBmarino@a... wrote:

> Have you tried Rice Bran?  I'm using it for the first time,
> because I have decided to cut out the whole corn from their diet as
> I believe it may be bad for their teeth over the long haul, unless
> you can get it rolled*.

Good idea!  We'll see for the future . . . but I've settled on a diet
for now and am not going to mess w/ it for a while. :-)  He gets
Purina Equine Senior (b/c it is highly digestible, and he gets a
LOT), plus Strategy, plus a little Purina Athlete, plus Weight
Builder, plus Source.  So far, so good -- he is getting twice the
calories he was getting where he lived before, but 1/2 the bulk.  He
looks better already (gaining weight slowly, coat looking better).

Elizabeth

Ok, you guys, STOP right there.
I don't see that anyone was slamming anyone here. I think Lara
simply asked Lisa why she was selling RRated, as we all thought
everything was going hunky dory with him. I see no slamming. PERIOD.
It was simply a friendly inquiry, which when I read Lisa's post, I
wondered myself how come RRated was being sold and I don't think
that asking a simply question such as Lara did has a single thing to
do with slamming. It was obviously curiosity (and I'm glad she asked
because if she hadn't I would have.)
If Lisa felt "slammed" I'm sure she would have said so herself.
I see absolutely NOTHING in Lara's post that is accusing or anything
of the sort. And just because Lara works for the UPF doesn;t mean
she is slamming by asking how come RRated is for sale, and it also
doesn't make her a "rescue sort" that condemns selling horses as
obviously she is in the retraining/reselling business herself.

I fail to understand where all this hyper-sensitivity comes from,
how could ya'll possibly read a slam into Lara's simple, friendly
question????
Besides, whenever I'm interested in buying a horse for sale from a
private person, not a trainer or breeder, I'd like to know how come
the horse is for sale. Is there something wrong with the horse or is
it simply a matter of finances, as is the case with Lisa?

Like I said, Lisa is a grown person, and if she felt like she was
being slammed by Lara's inquiry, she would have said so herself.
Alluding to Lara's question in a manner that she was slamming Lisa
for selling RRated was INAPPROPRIATE and uncalled for.
Sheeesh.
Tre

--- In retraintbs@yahoogroups.com, "Lara Leigh" <LaraLeigh@s...>
wrote:
> What I am getting is not that he is just slower and quieter but
> that he is not a forward thinker.... And I know that what everyone
> is saying is - it sure is nice to have one sane and quiet rather
> than otherwise.... but if you want to do dressage -
> you need them forward.

Mmmm. I'm not sure about that.  He is actually more forward on the
lunge, so I think there are some riding issues there.  I have no idea
about how he was previously ridden, but it's interesting that he will
sometimes buck or get a little quick on the lunge, but never under
saddle (i.e., I can lunge him first one day and he'll buck, and the
next day skip lunging altogether and he's FINE under saddle).  To me,
this means that he has perhaps been punished for acting up under
saddle and that it has translated into caution.  We'll see, I guess!

He's also much more forward when working out on the grass as opposed
to the arena.

> I guess the key is - 1. take lessons - even though you are a lifer
> horse person - we all can use help with our riding - sometimes it
> is good too to have someone push us to push the horse (in a good
> way)

I have a fabulous teacher (who I first worked w/ 20 years ago!) and
Per and I take a lesson once a week or so.  She isn't concerned about
this at all, so I guess I won't be!  B/c we have noticed that he is
only hard to get to go forward when he's confused, I think she feels,
as I do, that he'll get over it as he understands more.  And yes, I
do push him through his confusion. :-)

I'll add a dressage whip eventually, but my teacher says not yet and
I agree.

Elizabeth

I normally don't forward things like this when I can't verify for certain
that they are true.  The message came from a friend of a friend (all sent
yesterday), not a long list of forwarded messages (that I could tell.)
However, it is specific enough that I figured it might be worth posting.  I
suppose a reminder to pay attention to our horses' reactions to food/meds is
a good thing. Please forgive me if this is irrelevant!
Anne
....
Hi,
I am writing to everyone I know to give them this info:
Yesterday I wormed all 5 horses here at my barn with Zimectrin Gold. In
about an hour 3 of the 5 started showing allergic reactions to the
wormer. The insides of their mouths on the side where I administered the
drug got very swollen, one area was the size of an egg. And they started
drooling. I called my vet out immediately and he administered steroids and
antihistamines. He also had us rinse their mouths out with saline solution.
After about 4 hrs everything returned to normal and they now seem fine. It
is very scary to think what may have happened had I not caught this in time.
Maybe nothing, but maybe a very severe reaction causing their throats to
swell closed. Since at least one of the horses
here had been given this wormer before and since the vet had never seen any
reaction like this to this product we have to assume we got a bad
batch. I am not suggesting that anyone not use this product. It is a good
wormer. Just check your lot number on the back right side of the box. All of
mine said MBK0240 with an expiration date of 06-2006. I am going to be
writing to the company to tell them what happened and hopefully they will
notify people but for now please warn others and make sure you give them the
batch number.
Thanks
Louise

----- Original Message -----

From: Carrie Everhart

To: retraintbs@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 5:08 AM

Subject: Re: [retraintbs] TB Gelding for sale - N. Calif.

sorry to jump in here but it REALLY is her business
why she sells her hrose.  I do not like people
slamming other people for selling a horse.  I
personally train usually one off track hrose a year,
they are always "for sale", because that is what
allows me tog et another one later down the road.
Usually takes about ayear to retrain and sell them.  I
get VERY ANGRY at these "rescue groups" that won't
allow you to sell their hroses.  They are doing
themselves adn the hroses a disservice if a REPUTABLE
person gets the horse, works on bringing it back to
shape (frankly SO many of these OT horses cost a LOT
to get them looking good etc.)  spends tiem and moeny
retraining it and then finds it a good productive
home.  Then that person can do this again for another
hrose that likely would ahve had a MUCH WORSE fate, a
LOT of these adopted hroses go to people who shouldn't
ahve them and then the person becomes disillusioned
etc. adn the hrose gets retruned and never really
learns a good job.  Sorry, this is my pet peeve, there
fore I NEVER "Adopt" hroses I go to the trainers
directly and buy them so NOONE can tell me waht to do
with my hrose!  I think the organizations are good,
but they ened to realize that selling a hrose isn't
always a bad thing.  Yes, there ARE unscrupulous
people out there that will pretend to be something
they aren't but a simple background check and
references can easily weed those out

Carrie
--- "Lisa U." <lisax4156@...> wrote:
> Lara..
>
> I have to move and I need money. That's the only
> reason why I am selling him. And no.. I get along
> with him the same than I do utah, my ottb.  He's not
> nearly as 'lively' as utah is. He's more quieter.
> There's no way I'm selling Utah.. I love that
> horse.. He's awesome.  So thats' that :)
>
> Lisa
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Lara Leigh
>   To: retraintbs@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:01 PM
>   Subject: Re: [retraintbs] TB Gelding for sale - N.
> Calif.
>
>
>   Why are you selling him?  I must have missed
> something....
>
>   Did you say several times that you gel better with
> him than your other horse?
>
>   -Lara
>
>
>   "I am still under the impression that there is
> nothing alive quite so beautiful as a Thoroughbred
> horse." -John Galsworthy
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/retraintbs/
>      
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
>     retraintbs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


=====
Carrie Everhart
Shawnee Acres
Wilson, NC

http://www.freewebs.com/shawnee_acres

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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"I am still under the impression that there is nothing alive quite so beautiful as a Thoroughbred horse." -John Galsworthy

sorry to jump in here but it REALLY is her business
why she sells her hrose.  I do not like people
slamming other people for selling a horse.  I
personally train usually one off track hrose a year,
they are always "for sale", because that is what
allows me tog et another one later down the road.
Usually takes about ayear to retrain and sell them.  I
get VERY ANGRY at these "rescue groups" that won't
allow you to sell their hroses.  They are doing
themselves adn the hroses a disservice if a REPUTABLE
person gets the horse, works on bringing it back to
shape (frankly SO many of these OT horses cost a LOT
to get them looking good etc.)  spends tiem and moeny
retraining it and then finds it a good productive
home.  Then that person can do this again for another
hrose that likely would ahve had a MUCH WORSE fate, a
LOT of these adopted hroses go to people who shouldn't
ahve them and then the person becomes disillusioned
etc. adn the hrose gets retruned and never really
learns a good job.  Sorry, this is my pet peeve, there
fore I NEVER "Adopt" hroses I go to the trainers
directly and buy them so NOONE can tell me waht to do
with my hrose!  I think the organizations are good,
but they ened to realize that selling a hrose isn't
always a bad thing.  Yes, there ARE unscrupulous
people out there that will pretend to be something
they aren't but a simple background check and
references can easily weed those out

Carrie
--- "Lisa U." <lisax4156@...> wrote:
> Lara..
>
> I have to move and I need money. That's the only
> reason why I am selling him. And no.. I get along
> with him the same than I do utah, my ottb.  He's not
> nearly as 'lively' as utah is. He's more quieter.
> There's no way I'm selling Utah.. I love that
> horse.. He's awesome.  So thats' that :)
>
> Lisa
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Lara Leigh
>   To: retraintbs@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:01 PM
>   Subject: Re: [retraintbs] TB Gelding for sale - N.
> Calif.
>
>
>   Why are you selling him?  I must have missed
> something....
>
>   Did you say several times that you gel better with
> him than your other horse?
>
>   -Lara
>
>
>   "I am still under the impression that there is
> nothing alive quite so beautiful as a Thoroughbred
> horse." -John Galsworthy
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/retraintbs/
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
>     retraintbs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


=====
Carrie Everhart
Shawnee Acres
Wilson, NC

http://www.freewebs.com/shawnee_acres

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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