Shawn Bradley is the right player with the wrong contract. He isn't a
short term fix because once he's on the team he will be there for 4
more years after this one. Thats a long time for a player who's skills
are in serious decline.

I'd just wait for Micheal Bradley to come back for this season. I
think M Bradley is a useless bum with no talent but he does try hard
and there is only about 12 minutes of court time available anyway.

I'd move Murray for some help but not for a player with a longer or
larger contract. I'd rather wait until after this season to try and
add some extra parts because better players will be available.

I really don't believe this is the season to get locked up with any
more long term contracts. The raptors are finally going to have some
flexibility/money to play around with after this season (for a
possible mid level FA). There will also be decisions to make on a few
of our own free agents.

I see this as a transition season although i'm sure all of you would
rather go for it all. ;)


--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "susan" <susan.fyckes@s...> wrote:
> slayerrob, writes the clippers looking to trade elton brand and
drobniack for carter and a first round and second round pick.  you
thought it was insane for me to suggest marion and marbury for carter
and lammond, although i admit mine is really far fetched let's be
honest the clippers giving up their number one player on the boards
and in the paint who also is gaurenteed as double double every night
for a team that really needs it for vince carter who when he's good
he's the best but when he's bad the team goes no where.  that is a
trade i don't see happening.  and as far as shaun bradley is concerned
it all comes down to what he will give us quickly, and bradley is not
ready for that pressure.  LET'S STOP THE SPECULATING AND DEAL WITH THE
TEAM WE HAVE,  as far as i'm concerned we have a full team.  Hopefuls
or hopeless the players on the bench need to be utilized now to save
injury later and to give them a chance to show something to teams that
are looking so it will be easier for dumbwald to make the trade
decision without parting with a talented player.  what about micheal
bradley, you speak of bradley's why wasn't mike resigned or given a
contract extension, let's be honest asd far as talent on the boards
and heart the next best the raptors have in the paint after bosh and
donyell i feel would of been bradley and yet he's not here next year,
WHY!  I feel K.O couldf really appreiciate the heart and hustle that
he would bring off the bench, I mean hell he's alot better and in
better shape then lonny baxter will ever be.  What about the players
on the team, insted of looking outside in try looking inside first,
it'll save money and if it dosen't work there maybe a diamond in the
rough for another team that will have show cased something another
team will want
>
>  Thanks again for giving me a forum to voice my opinion.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: bobbypappas
>   To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 3:14 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Rap Pak] Shawn Bradley?
>
>
>   Should I feel flattered or take the blame that our GM is now being
>   known as Dumbwald by others besides myself.  I should have
>   copyrighted the phrase like Pat Riley copyrighted "3peat".  LOL.
>   Anyway about Bradley, I have conflicting feelings.  I think that he
>   has been unfairly picked on for years, by refs and players alike.  He
>   has showed glimpses of talent but thats all it has been, glimpses.
>   He does have a bit of a mean streak, which is very rare for a big
>   guy, and as the old axiom goes;  you can't teach big.  He's a legit
>   7'6 and he's no longer Chris Bosh skinny.  He has filled out his
>   frame, which is encouraging for CB.  Now the negative:  if their is
>   one team in the league that is more height challenged than the Raps
>   it is the Mavericks.  Their 7'0 stud Dirk Nowitzki plays either small
>   foward or power foward.  Often times 6'10 Danny Fortson or 6'8
>   Eduardo Najera plays center while the aformentioned Shawn Bradley
>   languishes on the bench.  Which bodes the question why?  Why would
>   Dallas who plays in the West where giants Shaq and Yao and Tim Duncan
>   reside refuse to play Bradley?  The trade proposals by y'all are
>   interesting but the last thing the Mavs need is another 2,3 like
>   Murray.  The whole team is made up of small fowards. If we could get
>   him for a future pick and Bateeer or Moiso, I'd do it, but the NBA
>   has a salary cap so  all trades have to match up $ wise.  Frewheel or
>   Rappak know more about the money than I do.  But all in all, I'd take
>   a chance on Bradley, good call by whoever proposed the idea.
>
>
>
>
>   --- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "Reldon Williams" <bodmon55@h...>
>   wrote:
>   > well yea shawn bradley is a good suggestion for the remaining of da
>   season ,
>   > he's got da height but not the body which is ok for the time being,
>   he's not
>   > really worth alot,Lammond Murray for shawn bradley will be an nice
>   necessary
>   > trade for the raps ....glen DUMWALD needs to make some moves
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > >From: dasafa <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
>   > >Reply-To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
>   > >To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
>   > >Subject: [Rap Pak] Shawn Bradley?
>   > >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 04:12:33 -0000
>   > >
>   > >It's obvious and been stated many times that the Raptors need a big
>   > >man.  I've been noticing in the Mavericks box scores that Shawn
>   > >Bradley has been on the bench for the past few games.  I don't
>   think
>   > >he's injured (although I might be wrong which would pretty much get
>   > >rid of the point of this thread but I couldn't find any injury info
>   > >for the Mavs) and the Mavs don't really need him.  I know it's
>   > >definately not a permanent fix and the Raptors would be better
>   with a
>   > >guy a little bigger than a toothpick but it could work for the rest
>   > >of the season.  The only thing that I'm not sure about is his
>   > >contract.  I think he might be making more than the Raptors want to
>   > >pay.  I don't even know what they could trade.  Could they send
>   > >MoPete or Lamond Murray and a second round pick?  I know a lot of
>   you
>   > >guys can give some better input so I just thought I'd throw the
>   idea
>   > >out there.
>   > >
>   >
>   > _________________________________________________________________
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>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

slayerrob, writes the clippers looking to trade elton brand and drobniack for
carter and a first round and second round pick.  you thought it was insane for
me to suggest marion and marbury for carter and lammond, although i admit mine
is really far fetched let's be honest the clippers giving up their number one
player on the boards and in the paint who also is gaurenteed as double double
every night for a team that really needs it for vince carter who when he's good
he's the best but when he's bad the team goes no where.  that is a trade i don't
see happening.  and as far as shaun bradley is concerned it all comes down to
what he will give us quickly, and bradley is not ready for that pressure.  LET'S
STOP THE SPECULATING AND DEAL WITH THE TEAM WE HAVE,  as far as i'm concerned we
have a full team.  Hopefuls or hopeless the players on the bench need to be
utilized now to save injury later and to give them a chance to show something to
teams that are looking so it will be easier for dumbwald to make the trade
decision without parting with a talented player.  what about micheal bradley,
you speak of bradley's why wasn't mike resigned or given a contract extension,
let's be honest asd far as talent on the boards and heart the next best the
raptors have in the paint after bosh and donyell i feel would of been bradley
and yet he's not here next year, WHY!  I feel K.O couldf really appreiciate the
heart and hustle that he would bring off the bench, I mean hell he's alot better
and in better shape then lonny baxter will ever be.  What about the players on
the team, insted of looking outside in try looking inside first, it'll save
money and if it dosen't work there maybe a diamond in the rough for another team
that will have show cased something another team will want

  Thanks again for giving me a forum to voice my opinion.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: bobbypappas
   To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 3:14 PM
   Subject: Re: [Rap Pak] Shawn Bradley?


   Should I feel flattered or take the blame that our GM is now being
   known as Dumbwald by others besides myself.  I should have
   copyrighted the phrase like Pat Riley copyrighted "3peat".  LOL.
   Anyway about Bradley, I have conflicting feelings.  I think that he
   has been unfairly picked on for years, by refs and players alike.  He
   has showed glimpses of talent but thats all it has been, glimpses.
   He does have a bit of a mean streak, which is very rare for a big
   guy, and as the old axiom goes;  you can't teach big.  He's a legit
   7'6 and he's no longer Chris Bosh skinny.  He has filled out his
   frame, which is encouraging for CB.  Now the negative:  if their is
   one team in the league that is more height challenged than the Raps
   it is the Mavericks.  Their 7'0 stud Dirk Nowitzki plays either small
   foward or power foward.  Often times 6'10 Danny Fortson or 6'8
   Eduardo Najera plays center while the aformentioned Shawn Bradley
   languishes on the bench.  Which bodes the question why?  Why would
   Dallas who plays in the West where giants Shaq and Yao and Tim Duncan
   reside refuse to play Bradley?  The trade proposals by y'all are
   interesting but the last thing the Mavs need is another 2,3 like
   Murray.  The whole team is made up of small fowards. If we could get
   him for a future pick and Bateeer or Moiso, I'd do it, but the NBA
   has a salary cap so  all trades have to match up $ wise.  Frewheel or
   Rappak know more about the money than I do.  But all in all, I'd take
   a chance on Bradley, good call by whoever proposed the idea.




   --- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "Reldon Williams" <bodmon55@h...>
   wrote:
   > well yea shawn bradley is a good suggestion for the remaining of da
   season ,
   > he's got da height but not the body which is ok for the time being,
   he's not
   > really worth alot,Lammond Murray for shawn bradley will be an nice
   necessary
   > trade for the raps ....glen DUMWALD needs to make some moves
   >
   >
   >
   > >From: dasafa <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
   > >Reply-To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
   > >To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
   > >Subject: [Rap Pak] Shawn Bradley?
   > >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 04:12:33 -0000
   > >
   > >It's obvious and been stated many times that the Raptors need a big
   > >man.  I've been noticing in the Mavericks box scores that Shawn
   > >Bradley has been on the bench for the past few games.  I don't
   think
   > >he's injured (although I might be wrong which would pretty much get
   > >rid of the point of this thread but I couldn't find any injury info
   > >for the Mavs) and the Mavs don't really need him.  I know it's
   > >definately not a permanent fix and the Raptors would be better
   with a
   > >guy a little bigger than a toothpick but it could work for the rest
   > >of the season.  The only thing that I'm not sure about is his
   > >contract.  I think he might be making more than the Raptors want to
   > >pay.  I don't even know what they could trade.  Could they send
   > >MoPete or Lamond Murray and a second round pick?  I know a lot of
   you
   > >guys can give some better input so I just thought I'd throw the
   idea
   > >out there.
   > >
   >
   > _________________________________________________________________
   > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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   2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Should I feel flattered or take the blame that our GM is now being
known as Dumbwald by others besides myself.  I should have
copyrighted the phrase like Pat Riley copyrighted "3peat".  LOL.
Anyway about Bradley, I have conflicting feelings.  I think that he
has been unfairly picked on for years, by refs and players alike.  He
has showed glimpses of talent but thats all it has been, glimpses.
He does have a bit of a mean streak, which is very rare for a big
guy, and as the old axiom goes;  you can't teach big.  He's a legit
7'6 and he's no longer Chris Bosh skinny.  He has filled out his
frame, which is encouraging for CB.  Now the negative:  if their is
one team in the league that is more height challenged than the Raps
it is the Mavericks.  Their 7'0 stud Dirk Nowitzki plays either small
foward or power foward.  Often times 6'10 Danny Fortson or 6'8
Eduardo Najera plays center while the aformentioned Shawn Bradley
languishes on the bench.  Which bodes the question why?  Why would
Dallas who plays in the West where giants Shaq and Yao and Tim Duncan
reside refuse to play Bradley?  The trade proposals by y'all are
interesting but the last thing the Mavs need is another 2,3 like
Murray.  The whole team is made up of small fowards. If we could get
him for a future pick and Bateeer or Moiso, I'd do it, but the NBA
has a salary cap so  all trades have to match up $ wise.  Frewheel or
Rappak know more about the money than I do.  But all in all, I'd take
a chance on Bradley, good call by whoever proposed the idea.




--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "Reldon Williams" <bodmon55@h...>
wrote:
> well yea shawn bradley is a good suggestion for the remaining of da
season ,
> he's got da height but not the body which is ok for the time being,
he's not
> really worth alot,Lammond Murray for shawn bradley will be an nice
necessary
> trade for the raps ....glen DUMWALD needs to make some moves
>
>
>
> >From: dasafa <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
> >Reply-To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
> >To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Rap Pak] Shawn Bradley?
> >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 04:12:33 -0000
> >
> >It's obvious and been stated many times that the Raptors need a big
> >man.  I've been noticing in the Mavericks box scores that Shawn
> >Bradley has been on the bench for the past few games.  I don't
think
> >he's injured (although I might be wrong which would pretty much get
> >rid of the point of this thread but I couldn't find any injury info
> >for the Mavs) and the Mavs don't really need him.  I know it's
> >definately not a permanent fix and the Raptors would be better
with a
> >guy a little bigger than a toothpick but it could work for the rest
> >of the season.  The only thing that I'm not sure about is his
> >contract.  I think he might be making more than the Raptors want to
> >pay.  I don't even know what they could trade.  Could they send
> >MoPete or Lamond Murray and a second round pick?  I know a lot of
you
> >guys can give some better input so I just thought I'd throw the
idea
> >out there.
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%
2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca

well yea shawn bradley is a good suggestion for the remaining of da season ,
he's got da height but not the body which is ok for the time being, he's not
really worth alot,Lammond Murray for shawn bradley will be an nice necessary
trade for the raps ....glen DUMWALD needs to make some moves



>From: dasafa <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
>Reply-To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
>To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Rap Pak] Shawn Bradley?
>Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 04:12:33 -0000
>
>It's obvious and been stated many times that the Raptors need a big
>man.  I've been noticing in the Mavericks box scores that Shawn
>Bradley has been on the bench for the past few games.  I don't think
>he's injured (although I might be wrong which would pretty much get
>rid of the point of this thread but I couldn't find any injury info
>for the Mavs) and the Mavs don't really need him.  I know it's
>definately not a permanent fix and the Raptors would be better with a
>guy a little bigger than a toothpick but it could work for the rest
>of the season.  The only thing that I'm not sure about is his
>contract.  I think he might be making more than the Raptors want to
>pay.  I don't even know what they could trade.  Could they send
>MoPete or Lamond Murray and a second round pick?  I know a lot of you
>guys can give some better input so I just thought I'd throw the idea
>out there.
>

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
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%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca

It's obvious and been stated many times that the Raptors need a big
man.  I've been noticing in the Mavericks box scores that Shawn
Bradley has been on the bench for the past few games.  I don't think
he's injured (although I might be wrong which would pretty much get
rid of the point of this thread but I couldn't find any injury info
for the Mavs) and the Mavs don't really need him.  I know it's
definately not a permanent fix and the Raptors would be better with a
guy a little bigger than a toothpick but it could work for the rest
of the season.  The only thing that I'm not sure about is his
contract.  I think he might be making more than the Raptors want to
pay.  I don't even know what they could trade.  Could they send
MoPete or Lamond Murray and a second round pick?  I know a lot of you
guys can give some better input so I just thought I'd throw the idea
out there.

any predictions on tonights tilt between the raps and nuggets?  who
will be on top in the make or break match up between bosh and melo?
what about lenard and either carter or peterson and what vince will
we see tonight? will it be air canada or just hot air?  and will the
raps score more then 100 points tonight or will the nuggets defence
shut them down in the paint and on the glass? will you see roger
mason match up against earl boykins or perhaps milt palacio coming
off the bench to guard the spark plug for the nuggets?  Finally, will
you see a jerome moiso sighting or lammond murray sighting if the
nuggets start running the raps starters into the ground with there
fast break plays and run and gun offence.

  Looking forward to all your predictions for tonights questions and
the game.

i appreciate the vote of approval bobbypappas from what i read from
you in the past you seem to be very knowledgeable of all facets of
the nba.  Because of this perhaps you could help with my other ? and
that was how and when is it good to actually chat on the chat lines
for the raptors, i really would like to know so that i can get into
discussions with knowledgable raptor and nba fans like yourself.
Thanks and looking forward to a good and helpful reply from someone.

Astute observations from purplefox.  I agree 100%.  If you look at
other teams box scores the play 10 or 11 guys no matter what the
score.  O'Neill seems very stubborn in the fact that he only plays 8
guys no matter what.  Whatever happened to the theory of playing the
guy with the hot hand?  lamond Murray can score, yet KO doesn't even
look at him.  It's gonna make for a very tired starting 5 come March
and April.




--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "purplefox12000" <susan.fyckes@s...>
wrote:
> all i can say is stop harping on the things we need and start using
> what we got, if we want a trade we got to start showing these
players
> on the bench so that we can trade them later on.  Lenny went with a
> short bench last year and it did nothing for us i can see the
> samething happening with the raps this year as far as o'neill using
> an 8 man rotation when he has a 10 man rotation available to him.
As
> far as grumwald is concerned he made bad choices that hurt the
team.
> However, you really have to go down the list to scouting to find
> fault with some of the mistakes that have been made.  You have to
> give credit to gg for the draft of chris bosh, as far as immediate
> impact is concerned on the floor.  The key is that's all grunwald
> wants right now is the quick fix to get them through the year, so
> play the team you have and make the best of it because we will not
> get a "quality centre and a quality point guard" unless we trade
for
> the same and as far as i am concerned o'neill dosen't play the
bench
> enough to show then off for people to have a look at.  Whether
their
> good or not is not the question it's the fact that they are giving
t
> eams an opportunity to see these players that could be used in
future
> trades, plus it gives the starters some much earned rest in games.
> My prediction is come early to late january the raps are going to
> have very abused players in the form of chris bosh, donyell
marshall,
> alvin williams and vince carter, then it'll be to late to do
anything
> but play your mediocre bench that has had no playing time to speak
of
> and then watch the season go down hill.
>
>   Thanks very much, i have one more question why is it that nobody
> uses the chat section, and if they do maybe you could tell me when
it
> is a good time to get on.

all i can say is stop harping on the things we need and start using
what we got, if we want a trade we got to start showing these players
on the bench so that we can trade them later on.  Lenny went with a
short bench last year and it did nothing for us i can see the
samething happening with the raps this year as far as o'neill using
an 8 man rotation when he has a 10 man rotation available to him.  As
far as grumwald is concerned he made bad choices that hurt the team.
However, you really have to go down the list to scouting to find
fault with some of the mistakes that have been made.  You have to
give credit to gg for the draft of chris bosh, as far as immediate
impact is concerned on the floor.  The key is that's all grunwald
wants right now is the quick fix to get them through the year, so
play the team you have and make the best of it because we will not
get a "quality centre and a quality point guard" unless we trade for
the same and as far as i am concerned o'neill dosen't play the bench
enough to show then off for people to have a look at.  Whether their
good or not is not the question it's the fact that they are giving t
eams an opportunity to see these players that could be used in future
trades, plus it gives the starters some much earned rest in games.
My prediction is come early to late january the raps are going to
have very abused players in the form of chris bosh, donyell marshall,
alvin williams and vince carter, then it'll be to late to do anything
but play your mediocre bench that has had no playing time to speak of
and then watch the season go down hill.

   Thanks very much, i have one more question why is it that nobody
uses the chat section, and if they do maybe you could tell me when it
is a good time to get on.

Hey Rapsfan, first of all welcome to the board.  I think your first
post was about a week and a half ago.  The more Raps fans the
merrier.  If you look at the message archives you'll see that I am a
very harsh, but I think fair critic (Rappak and Freewheel might
disagree, LOL) of Glen Dumbwald.  I don't believe that he has the
foresight or creativity to ever be a top notch gm.  It's been
apparent to everyone, Ray Charles included that we need frontcourt
help.  BIG TIME!!  There have been numerous trade proposals posted
here, some very good, some not so much.  Rappak  suggested that we
pick up Mikki Moore, who was putting up 20 and 10 a night in the
developmental league.  Alas, New Jersey beat us to the punch.  The
Nets signed him, however for whatever reason he isn't getting off the
bench.  Others suggested that GG take a flyer on Eddie Griffin, a
troubled but talented 6'10 foward.  Yet again the Nets signed him
last night.  The moral of the story is for the Raps to sign the Nets
gm.  LOL.  In all seriousness I think Dumbwald might be a litle gun
shy about trading for a big man, considering his track record on the
matter.  Think about it for a second.  A couple of years ago, he
drafted Eurostiff Alex Radojovich with his #1 even though most GM'S
didn't even have him projected as a first rounder.  We see how that
one turned out.  Next he signed an over the hill Hakeem Olajuwon to
a huge contract, which we're still paying off.  Rumor has it Dumbwald
tried to sign Wilt Chamberlain but he was having too much fun chasing
the nurses in the old folks home.  LOL  Dumbwald also signed Antonio
Davis to a long term deal, way overpaying for an undersized 6'9
centre.  Thank God the Bulls GM is dumber than ours.  This year he
tried to acquire an over the hiil, overpaid, untalented center named
Dikembe Mutombo.  See a pattern here?  There are also credible
reports that he continually tried to shop Bosh.  GEESH!!!  Lastly in
the second round of this years draft when Canadian feel good story
Carl English was still available Dumbwald drafted Remon Van DeHere a
Radojovich clone.  7'1 with absolutely no talent whatsoever.  He was
so bad in the summer league he wasn't even invited to training camp
in TO.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice call me Dumbwald.
Some people will defend that pick saying that second rounders are
irrelevant.  To that I say Nick Van Exel, Carlos Boozer and Gilbert
Arenas.  All 2nd rounders.  In summary I believe that GG has such a
horrible track record with big men that he is afraid to make a deal,
for fear of criticism.  Remember, he's playing for a contract renewal
also.  Look for the center position to be addressed in the draft.
There are quite a few good ones this year.



- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "rapsfan03" <bodmon55@h...> wrote:
> GRUNWALN NEEDS TO MAKE A DEAL VERY SOON RAPS ARE DYING IN THE PAINT

GRUNWALN NEEDS TO MAKE A DEAL VERY SOON RAPS ARE DYING IN THE PAINT

I don't mind reading these overhaul-type trades once and while.
They're usually an interesting read and sometimes they spark heated
debate.

Personally I don't think there's any way we're giving up Rose, MoPete
and Moiso for little used players in White and Elson, and likely a
middle-to-late 1st round pick. It may seem like an even deal to you,
bobbypappas, because you seem to be high on Elson and White. But I
think the general consensus around the league is that you can acquire
White (whose been on the block for a long time now) and Elson (a
former second round pick and still a 27-year-old project) for a lot
less talented players. Add Skita to the deal, maybe the talent evens
out. Still if GG does this trade, the local and US media would have a
field day on his azz which may lead to his firing if the trade
doesn't payoff in the short run. Wait, that would be a good thing in
your book, right? The trade is too risky for GG.

I don't think Denver does the trade either because Vershon Lenard has
been more than adequate lately as their starting SG. Rose would be a
very expensive backup. I should also add the salaries don't come
close to matching because of Rose's salary. The trade, as is, is not
possible.

The Vince trade is actually close to the talent we would receive if
we were to trade VC now. I would want more though. A high 1st round
pick at the very least. Gino and Parker are good but IMHO will never
be superstars. We lose Vince, we have to get a superstar or at least
a potential superstar in return.

--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypappas" <bobbypappas@y...> wrote:
> Well, it's the day after Christmas and I have plenty of time on my
> hands so I've been dreaming up some crazy, but I believe, good
> trades.  I ask in advance that no one read this post while holding
a
> baby or taking heart medication.  LOL.  Okay here goes:  Jalen
Rose,
> Moiso and Mo Pete to Denver for White, Elson ( 7'1 260, who I love)
> and their # 1 pick.  Denver is without a doubt the suprise of the
NBA
> and now has to reprioritize thier goals from rebuilding to getting
> ready for the playoffs.  Rose would be an upgrade at the 2 guard
for
> them, giving them Miller, Rose and Carmelo Anthony at the 3 spots.
> MoPete would give them the offense off the bench that he's been
> giving us and Moiso can backup Camby and Nene.  Now here's why it
> would be a good trade for the Raps.  Elson would give us actual
size
> and talent up front.  He was leading all rookies in rebounds, yes
> even over Bosh, and blocked shots before Bezdelik for whatever
reason
> pulled him out of the rotation in favor of  Camby and Chris
> Anderson.  I read some Denver papers and he was a fan favorite.  He
> is a big man with fire in his belly ( a rarity).  He also has shown
> the ability to score double figures when given minutes.  Rodney
White
> came out of college after his freshman season, usually a mistake,
> Bosh being the exception.  He's a legit 6'8 and can flat out
score.
> As he matures mentally and physically he could be our starting 3
for
> the next 10 years.  He reminds me a lot of Maggette, who I get to
see
> every game and is becoming an all star.  What about point guard you
> ask.  OK before you all accuse me of heresy I ask that you think
> about my proposal before you hurl expletives at me.  LOL  Trade
Alvin
> Williams and Vince Carter, yes I had the temeridity to say trade
> Vince to San Antonio for Parker and Ginobili , the best young
> backcourt in the NBA and the Spurs #1.  If anyone has seen Manu
play
> defense you just shake your head at how good this guy is.  He also,
> unlike Vinny loves to drive to the hole and get the "and 1".  He
will
> be a 20 ppg, 5 assist, 7 rebound guy for the next 10 years.  Parker
> is only 21 and has already won a championship and would be the
first
> true pg we've had since crackhead Stoudamire.  I know that Vince is
> the Raptors and vice versa but dare I say I believe that he is over
> rated.  Yes he still has the occasional flair for the dramatic but
> how many more 7 for 28 nights can we endure.  Who does he think he
is
> Allen Iverson?  Besides as I've already stated he rarely goes to
the
> hole anymore and more and more jacks up a crazy jumper as the shot
> clock is about to expire.  Don't get me wrong, I love Vince, but
you
> have to give up good to get good.  So if my trades happened, which
> they won't so please no one get your panties in a bunch, our
starting
> 5 would be Parker, Ginobili, White, Marshall and Bosh.  Murray,
Elson
> Baxter and unfortunatly Curry would come off the bench.  Keep in
mid
> however that we would have 3 first round picks, ours, Denvers,
which
> when all is said and done will probably be a good one.  They can't
be
> as good as they're playing, their in the West remember?  San
> Antonios' would be at the bottom of the round but remember Gilbert
> Arenas ans Carlos Boozer were 2nd round picks.  We could draft a
true
> center, their are actually a few good ones in this years draft and
> build depth.  I believe that this would be a great, not just a
good,
> team in a few years.

well, i didn't say trade j rose what i had said was move him to small forward
and put vince at the shooting guard spot.  bobbypappas made the comment, as for
tonights game i didn't watch the whole game but if i could comment on the fact
that alvin williams did make the clutch 3 free throws near the end of the game
to help put it into overtime, i still feel that with the playing time split up
with boogie and milt palacio at the pg spot it would be  benificial to the team.
Also another comment i have is when is o neill going to use the bench, wee seen
last year what happened with lenny when he no choice but to shorten his bench
due to all the injuries, now they have a healthy bench core of more then 2
people, i think if the team is skidding like it is they will soon have injuries
to the players because they are overplayed and this will happen mid season when
i really don't think they need that to happen.  Break it down like this the
raptors are losing with the star players playing heavy minutes and really all
it's accomplishing is they are paddng there stats, meanwhile the bench is under
used.  Here's a ? to ponder they lose with the stars on the floor maybe they
should give the bench a chance it's not like they are going to save the team or
anything but it would give the regulars rest time.  Bascially you have a healthy
bench play the whole bench win or lose it will only help down the stretch of the
season

give me your opinion and thoughts on that and what ever else you would like to
discuss.  thanks very much for letting me share my thoughts on raptor ball
      ----- Original Message -----
   From: Reldon Williams
   To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 10:54 PM
   Subject: RE: [Rap Pak] Radical trade proposals


   im sorry i have to disagree with da first trade, TRADING JALEN ROSE????
   NNOOOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAYYYYYYY  Jalen Rose is a good scorer he's a special
   player dat can play 3 differnt position there is hardly no point guards out
   there like Jalen (6"8') point guard its a mix match compare to all da oother
   point guards out there in da league but i do agree with you about da vince
   carter trade to san antonio Manu Ginobili is a excellent player bottom line
   : DONT TRADE JALEN ROSE



   >From: "bobbypappas" <bobbypappas@...>
   >Reply-To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
   >To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
   >Subject: [Rap Pak] Radical trade proposals
   >Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:37:34 -0000
   >
   >Well, it's the day after Christmas and I have plenty of time on my
   >hands so I've been dreaming up some crazy, but I believe, good
   >trades.  I ask in advance that no one read this post while holding a
   >baby or taking heart medication.  LOL.  Okay here goes:  Jalen Rose,
   >Moiso and Mo Pete to Denver for White, Elson ( 7'1 260, who I love)
   >and their # 1 pick.  Denver is without a doubt the suprise of the NBA
   >and now has to reprioritize thier goals from rebuilding to getting
   >ready for the playoffs.  Rose would be an upgrade at the 2 guard for
   >them, giving them Miller, Rose and Carmelo Anthony at the 3 spots.
   >MoPete would give them the offense off the bench that he's been
   >giving us and Moiso can backup Camby and Nene.  Now here's why it
   >would be a good trade for the Raps.  Elson would give us actual size
   >and talent up front.  He was leading all rookies in rebounds, yes
   >even over Bosh, and blocked shots before Bezdelik for whatever reason
   >pulled him out of the rotation in favor of  Camby and Chris
   >Anderson.  I read some Denver papers and he was a fan favorite.  He
   >is a big man with fire in his belly ( a rarity).  He also has shown
   >the ability to score double figures when given minutes.  Rodney White
   >came out of college after his freshman season, usually a mistake,
   >Bosh being the exception.  He's a legit 6'8 and can flat out score.
   >As he matures mentally and physically he could be our starting 3 for
   >the next 10 years.  He reminds me a lot of Maggette, who I get to see
   >every game and is becoming an all star.  What about point guard you
   >ask.  OK before you all accuse me of heresy I ask that you think
   >about my proposal before you hurl expletives at me.  LOL  Trade Alvin
   >Williams and Vince Carter, yes I had the temeridity to say trade
   >Vince to San Antonio for Parker and Ginobili , the best young
   >backcourt in the NBA and the Spurs #1.  If anyone has seen Manu play
   >defense you just shake your head at how good this guy is.  He also,
   >unlike Vinny loves to drive to the hole and get the "and 1".  He will
   >be a 20 ppg, 5 assist, 7 rebound guy for the next 10 years.  Parker
   >is only 21 and has already won a championship and would be the first
   >true pg we've had since crackhead Stoudamire.  I know that Vince is
   >the Raptors and vice versa but dare I say I believe that he is over
   >rated.  Yes he still has the occasional flair for the dramatic but
   >how many more 7 for 28 nights can we endure.  Who does he think he is
   >Allen Iverson?  Besides as I've already stated he rarely goes to the
   >hole anymore and more and more jacks up a crazy jumper as the shot
   >clock is about to expire.  Don't get me wrong, I love Vince, but you
   >have to give up good to get good.  So if my trades happened, which
   >they won't so please no one get your panties in a bunch, our starting
   >5 would be Parker, Ginobili, White, Marshall and Bosh.  Murray, Elson
   >Baxter and unfortunatly Curry would come off the bench.  Keep in mid
   >however that we would have 3 first round picks, ours, Denvers, which
   >when all is said and done will probably be a good one.  They can't be
   >as good as they're playing, their in the West remember?  San
   >Antonios' would be at the bottom of the round but remember Gilbert
   >Arenas ans Carlos Boozer were 2nd round picks.  We could draft a true
   >center, their are actually a few good ones in this years draft and
   >build depth.  I believe that this would be a great, not just a good,
   >team in a few years.
   >

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

im sorry i have to disagree with da first trade, TRADING JALEN ROSE????
NNOOOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAYYYYYYY  Jalen Rose is a good scorer he's a special
player dat can play 3 differnt position there is hardly no point guards out
there like Jalen (6"8') point guard its a mix match compare to all da oother
point guards out there in da league but i do agree with you about da vince
carter trade to san antonio Manu Ginobili is a excellent player bottom line
: DONT TRADE JALEN ROSE



>From: "bobbypappas" <bobbypappas@...>
>Reply-To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
>To: rappak@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Rap Pak] Radical trade proposals
>Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:37:34 -0000
>
>Well, it's the day after Christmas and I have plenty of time on my
>hands so I've been dreaming up some crazy, but I believe, good
>trades.  I ask in advance that no one read this post while holding a
>baby or taking heart medication.  LOL.  Okay here goes:  Jalen Rose,
>Moiso and Mo Pete to Denver for White, Elson ( 7'1 260, who I love)
>and their # 1 pick.  Denver is without a doubt the suprise of the NBA
>and now has to reprioritize thier goals from rebuilding to getting
>ready for the playoffs.  Rose would be an upgrade at the 2 guard for
>them, giving them Miller, Rose and Carmelo Anthony at the 3 spots.
>MoPete would give them the offense off the bench that he's been
>giving us and Moiso can backup Camby and Nene.  Now here's why it
>would be a good trade for the Raps.  Elson would give us actual size
>and talent up front.  He was leading all rookies in rebounds, yes
>even over Bosh, and blocked shots before Bezdelik for whatever reason
>pulled him out of the rotation in favor of  Camby and Chris
>Anderson.  I read some Denver papers and he was a fan favorite.  He
>is a big man with fire in his belly ( a rarity).  He also has shown
>the ability to score double figures when given minutes.  Rodney White
>came out of college after his freshman season, usually a mistake,
>Bosh being the exception.  He's a legit 6'8 and can flat out score.
>As he matures mentally and physically he could be our starting 3 for
>the next 10 years.  He reminds me a lot of Maggette, who I get to see
>every game and is becoming an all star.  What about point guard you
>ask.  OK before you all accuse me of heresy I ask that you think
>about my proposal before you hurl expletives at me.  LOL  Trade Alvin
>Williams and Vince Carter, yes I had the temeridity to say trade
>Vince to San Antonio for Parker and Ginobili , the best young
>backcourt in the NBA and the Spurs #1.  If anyone has seen Manu play
>defense you just shake your head at how good this guy is.  He also,
>unlike Vinny loves to drive to the hole and get the "and 1".  He will
>be a 20 ppg, 5 assist, 7 rebound guy for the next 10 years.  Parker
>is only 21 and has already won a championship and would be the first
>true pg we've had since crackhead Stoudamire.  I know that Vince is
>the Raptors and vice versa but dare I say I believe that he is over
>rated.  Yes he still has the occasional flair for the dramatic but
>how many more 7 for 28 nights can we endure.  Who does he think he is
>Allen Iverson?  Besides as I've already stated he rarely goes to the
>hole anymore and more and more jacks up a crazy jumper as the shot
>clock is about to expire.  Don't get me wrong, I love Vince, but you
>have to give up good to get good.  So if my trades happened, which
>they won't so please no one get your panties in a bunch, our starting
>5 would be Parker, Ginobili, White, Marshall and Bosh.  Murray, Elson
>Baxter and unfortunatly Curry would come off the bench.  Keep in mid
>however that we would have 3 first round picks, ours, Denvers, which
>when all is said and done will probably be a good one.  They can't be
>as good as they're playing, their in the West remember?  San
>Antonios' would be at the bottom of the round but remember Gilbert
>Arenas ans Carlos Boozer were 2nd round picks.  We could draft a true
>center, their are actually a few good ones in this years draft and
>build depth.  I believe that this would be a great, not just a good,
>team in a few years.
>

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peace,

Alex.

well bobby that's pretty good for a starting line up but who's the
people on the bench, and let's be honest people don't want results a
year from now, they want the results yesterday.  So even though you
have a very goor idea that would help the raps out, gg as you refer
to him has the problem of being thrust into a situation now of doing
the best he can in the fastest time to make up for the disgrace he
faced last year, as well as getting his contract renewed.  Therefore
you can say that gg is jumping into the water before he checks the
temperature and it's getting hotter and hotter for, so he has got to
keep jumping to conclusions to find the fastest, cheapest and easiest
way to get us to the playoffs.

   In response to your answer about boogie at the point, even i know
he is not statistically great at the point but let's be honest j rose
is horrible at the pg spot, the way i see it is vince and alvin and
moo all know each other and no matter what happens i still feel
boogie has the court knowledge and a better sense with the ball the j
rose does.

   My next ? is with defence being the key with coach o neill why does
he want a person in the middle when the centre spot is so hard to
fill, when instead he start from say the small forward or the point
and work his way in, perimeter defence to me is more important to me
then low post defence because everything seems to start at the point
and work it's way in.  In closing they do well on the defensive glass
most games it's the long rebounds that come out ten  feet or more
that they can't get a handle on.  One more thing if anybody reads
this down to hear can i just say that i commend bobby for saying
the "T" word in the same sentence with vince because whether it's do
to lack of leadership on the floor or the coach expecting to much of
him eithre way consistency is not a word used to describe vince's
game and the more i watch the more i have a tendency of seeing
shareef abdur rahim
the invisible man in the 4th.

Well, it's the day after Christmas and I have plenty of time on my
hands so I've been dreaming up some crazy, but I believe, good
trades.  I ask in advance that no one read this post while holding a
baby or taking heart medication.  LOL.  Okay here goes:  Jalen Rose,
Moiso and Mo Pete to Denver for White, Elson ( 7'1 260, who I love)
and their # 1 pick.  Denver is without a doubt the suprise of the NBA
and now has to reprioritize thier goals from rebuilding to getting
ready for the playoffs.  Rose would be an upgrade at the 2 guard for
them, giving them Miller, Rose and Carmelo Anthony at the 3 spots.
MoPete would give them the offense off the bench that he's been
giving us and Moiso can backup Camby and Nene.  Now here's why it
would be a good trade for the Raps.  Elson would give us actual size
and talent up front.  He was leading all rookies in rebounds, yes
even over Bosh, and blocked shots before Bezdelik for whatever reason
pulled him out of the rotation in favor of  Camby and Chris
Anderson.  I read some Denver papers and he was a fan favorite.  He
is a big man with fire in his belly ( a rarity).  He also has shown
the ability to score double figures when given minutes.  Rodney White
came out of college after his freshman season, usually a mistake,
Bosh being the exception.  He's a legit 6'8 and can flat out score.
As he matures mentally and physically he could be our starting 3 for
the next 10 years.  He reminds me a lot of Maggette, who I get to see
every game and is becoming an all star.  What about point guard you
ask.  OK before you all accuse me of heresy I ask that you think
about my proposal before you hurl expletives at me.  LOL  Trade Alvin
Williams and Vince Carter, yes I had the temeridity to say trade
Vince to San Antonio for Parker and Ginobili , the best young
backcourt in the NBA and the Spurs #1.  If anyone has seen Manu play
defense you just shake your head at how good this guy is.  He also,
unlike Vinny loves to drive to the hole and get the "and 1".  He will
be a 20 ppg, 5 assist, 7 rebound guy for the next 10 years.  Parker
is only 21 and has already won a championship and would be the first
true pg we've had since crackhead Stoudamire.  I know that Vince is
the Raptors and vice versa but dare I say I believe that he is over
rated.  Yes he still has the occasional flair for the dramatic but
how many more 7 for 28 nights can we endure.  Who does he think he is
Allen Iverson?  Besides as I've already stated he rarely goes to the
hole anymore and more and more jacks up a crazy jumper as the shot
clock is about to expire.  Don't get me wrong, I love Vince, but you
have to give up good to get good.  So if my trades happened, which
they won't so please no one get your panties in a bunch, our starting
5 would be Parker, Ginobili, White, Marshall and Bosh.  Murray, Elson
Baxter and unfortunatly Curry would come off the bench.  Keep in mid
however that we would have 3 first round picks, ours, Denvers, which
when all is said and done will probably be a good one.  They can't be
as good as they're playing, their in the West remember?  San
Antonios' would be at the bottom of the round but remember Gilbert
Arenas ans Carlos Boozer were 2nd round picks.  We could draft a true
center, their are actually a few good ones in this years draft and
build depth.  I believe that this would be a great, not just a good,
team in a few years.

Why on earth would you want AWill to move back to the starting pg
when he's proven for the last 4 odd years that when given starters
minutes at that position he has consistently been last or close to
last in the NBA in assists?  In a perfect world he would be the 6th
or 7th man, coming off the bench for about 20-25 mpg.  The problem
with our beloved Raps is that we lack a truely defined point guard
and 2 guard.  Rose is doing an admirable job but he's not a
clasic "1".  Vinnie should be a two guard not a small foward.  I'm
getting more and more disturbed with his refusal to drive to the hoop
and settle for an off balance jumper.  What made Vince so dangerous
in the first few years in the league was his willingness to drive to
the bucket and get the "and 1".  He just doesn't do that any more.
We have a guy here in LA, Corey Maggette, who is doing just that and
is in the top 3 in free throws.  Vince needs to remember what made
him so special.  We also desperately need size.  Desperately.  And
not just "big" for the sake of "big".  As most of you  know, I've
been extremely critical of Glen Dumbwald for his lack of foresight as
a GM.  I did think the deal last month ws a good one and I gave him
his just due.  That being said all of the free agents he signed this
year suck!!  Bateer is awful, Moiso is passionless and confused and
Palacio was signed over Rafer Alston, 'nuff said.  GG show us
something and do something radical.  SAVE OUR RAPS!!!!



--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, purplefox12000 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> here's the new line up i'd like the see the raps play with, at pg
> alvin williams, sg vince carter, sf jalen rose, pf donyell marshall
> and centre the t.o phenom chris bosh.  If you would like to talk
> please your more then welcomed to e mail me anytime with thoughts
and
> comments, because i love talking raptors ball. Thanks and have a
> happy new year to all the true raptor faithful.

here's the new line up i'd like the see the raps play with, at pg
alvin williams, sg vince carter, sf jalen rose, pf donyell marshall
and centre the t.o phenom chris bosh.  If you would like to talk
please your more then welcomed to e mail me anytime with thoughts and
comments, because i love talking raptors ball. Thanks and have a
happy new year to all the true raptor faithful.

Go Raps! :)

--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypappas" <bobbypappas@y...> wrote:
>

:) <=== Me after signing a bigman of the Ratliff calibre.

:/ <=== Me after signing Cherokee Parks or Tyrone Hill.

:( <=== Me after drinking a litre of egg nog.

Season's greetings!

--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypappas" <bobbypappas@y...> wrote:
> --- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, rappak <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> >Rappak, why the sarcasm?  You're usually more insightful than
that.
> Turn that frown upside down my friend.  Remember as bad as the Raps
> are playing we're still in the east.  Lets hear it for mediocrity!!!
> LOL
> SIGN HIM!!!! NBA finals here we come!!!! ;)
> >
> > --- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, freewheel_99 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > > I don't like Parks but would I sign him? Yes. He does play hard
> and
> > > has a bit of a nasty side. I'd probably choose him over Hill
too.
> > Its
> > > a good idea and I hope Grunwald takes a look.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypappas" <bobbypappas@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > Golden State just released him.  I got to see him a lot when
he
> > > > played for the Clippers a few years ago.  He's big 6'11, 265
> and
> > he
> > > > actually has a little offensive ability, nice mid range
jumper
> > and
> > > > Rappak you'll like this one;  he loves to bang underneath the
> > > > boards.  Lets go get him.

--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, rappak <no_reply@y...> wrote:
>Rappak, why the sarcasm?  You're usually more insightful than that.
Turn that frown upside down my friend.  Remember as bad as the Raps
are playing we're still in the east.  Lets hear it for mediocrity!!!
LOL
SIGN HIM!!!! NBA finals here we come!!!! ;)
>
> --- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, freewheel_99 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > I don't like Parks but would I sign him? Yes. He does play hard
and
> > has a bit of a nasty side. I'd probably choose him over Hill too.
> Its
> > a good idea and I hope Grunwald takes a look.
> >
> >
> > --- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypappas" <bobbypappas@y...>
> wrote:
> > > Golden State just released him.  I got to see him a lot when he
> > > played for the Clippers a few years ago.  He's big 6'11, 265
and
> he
> > > actually has a little offensive ability, nice mid range jumper
> and
> > > Rappak you'll like this one;  he loves to bang underneath the
> > > boards.  Lets go get him.

SIGN HIM!!!! NBA finals here we come!!!! ;)

--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, freewheel_99 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> I don't like Parks but would I sign him? Yes. He does play hard and
> has a bit of a nasty side. I'd probably choose him over Hill too.
Its
> a good idea and I hope Grunwald takes a look.
>
>
> --- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypappas" <bobbypappas@y...>
wrote:
> > Golden State just released him.  I got to see him a lot when he
> > played for the Clippers a few years ago.  He's big 6'11, 265 and
he
> > actually has a little offensive ability, nice mid range jumper
and
> > Rappak you'll like this one;  he loves to bang underneath the
> > boards.  Lets go get him.

I don't like Parks but would I sign him? Yes. He does play hard and
has a bit of a nasty side. I'd probably choose him over Hill too. Its
a good idea and I hope Grunwald takes a look.


--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypappas" <bobbypappas@y...> wrote:
> Golden State just released him.  I got to see him a lot when he
> played for the Clippers a few years ago.  He's big 6'11, 265 and he
> actually has a little offensive ability, nice mid range jumper and
> Rappak you'll like this one;  he loves to bang underneath the
> boards.  Lets go get him.

Golden State just released him.  I got to see him a lot when he
played for the Clippers a few years ago.  He's big 6'11, 265 and he
actually has a little offensive ability, nice mid range jumper and
Rappak you'll like this one;  he loves to bang underneath the
boards.  Lets go get him.

--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, "nbafan_6969" <andy_dude_381@h...>
wrote:
> I don't know but I think Donyall Marshall should be an allstar this
> year. If he keeps putting on these numbers, I think he should be
> accompaning Carter to LA. Your thoughts?
  to tell you da truth i agree u kno he's really puttin up big numbers
u kno actually carrying the team afeter vince u kno i think he does
deserve to make da all star team

Raptors need to make  the deal with the knicks as soon as possible ,
please respond to this

--- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, freewheel_99 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Thomas has nine lives. How many times can you screw up before you
> can't get a job?
>
> The only guy I think did a worse job in the NBA is Pitino.
>
>
>
> --- In rappak@yahoogroups.com, rappak <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > One lousy GM for another.
> >
> > "NEW YORK -- Scott Layden was fired Monday as president of the
New
> > York Knicks and Isiah Thomas was hired to replace him, a source
told
> > The Associated Press."
> >
> > http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1692143
> >
> > Also the Nets picked up Mikki Moore from the NBDL.
I think da knicks did a smart thing by hiring isaiah Thomas, he's
smart and he know wat he's doinn with lots of experince and hopefully
can make adjustments with the knicks roster

I don't know but I think Donyall Marshall should be an allstar this
year. If he keeps putting on these numbers, I think he should be
accompaning Carter to LA. Your thoughts?