see here...



http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=470789



and then here...



http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=473762



I think that this potentially could be positive if done right...what do

ya'll think?



~matt

I think its a great idea!  I think the main obstacle to look at would

be to make sure we do the ride when it is and has been fairly dry.  A

lot of people are going to try and pick it apart, so the more advanced

planning the better.  Don't we usually get a dry couple of weeks in FEB?

Does anyone know who 'Free Agent' is before I contact him? There are rules

within the

Parks Dept. for organized events in Public Parks, and the main rule that

concerns bicycle

events in a PDX Park is: "Only Permits allowed for Bicycle Related Events

are for Paved Surfaces.". How do I know this?

In March of 2005, I attempted to add a 'Forest Park Loop' for the Bridge

Pedal, working with

Ric Bauman the guy who owns that event. We even had the support of Fred

Nilsen, the Forest Park Manager at the time,

but the Parks Dept came back with that rule.



Before this ride gets some traction, let's make sure we don't create

enemies with Parks, FP Neighborhood Associations

and the Forest Park Conservancy.



I applaud the idea, but it needs to be done right.



This article will explain how the city views events in the

park..........which is interesting, because they STILL allow

the 'Run For The Wildwood', which violates these rules:

----------------------------------------------------

Forest Park goes with scaled-down approach



Thursday, April 06, 2006

Fred Leeson



When members and friends of the Oregon Road Runners Club scampered the

entire length of Forest Park late last month -- some of them twice -- it

marked the last large-scale event in the sprawling park's north end.



The Bureau of Parks & Recreation has eliminated big events in so-called

North Management Unit, considered the most sensitive habitat for wild

plants and animals. Further, the new policy would prefer that informal

group runs or walks that involve more than 20 participants stay out, too,

between Northwest Germantown and Newberry roads. "Protecting natural

resources and wildlife habitat is of utmost importance in this management

unit," the policy states.



The City Council endorsed the restriction more than a decade ago in a

Forest Park management plan, but it never was implemented.



Jim Sjulin, a Parks Bureau nature zone manager, says the new policy stems

from increased human use in the past decade and lobbying from the Friends

of Forest Park.



"The Friends has been asking us for a couple years to look at our event

policies, and to make the policies consistent with the management plan,"

he says.



The new policy also restricts events to a maximum of 100 people and only

in May through October in the Central unit, between Firelane No. 1 and

Northwest Germantown Road. In the South unit closest to the city, between

West Burnside and Firelane No. 1, it limits participants to 500

year-around.



Gail Snyder, director of the Friends, has seen "an explosion" of racing

and other events since the 1995 plan. "I think it's a positive step," she

says. "It does help protect the north end."



Snyder, who also is an ultramarathoner, notes that the new policy does not

restrict individuals from training or from riding horses in the North

Unit. But she notes that the most remote area should be reserved mostly

for passive use such as hiking and bird watching.



"We're trying to maintain the North Unit as a natural area park, and not

have it perceived as an arena for events," Snyder says. "We have plenty of

other places for events."



Snyder counts at least 20 kinds of group activities that occur in Forest

Park. Some, like geocaching, were unheard of when the City Council adopted

the park management plan. Geocachers use global positioning devices to

search for hidden items. Sjulin says people leaving trails do the worst

damage in sensitive habitats such as the North Unit.



Monika Gold, race director for the final "March Mudness" road run, says

she accepts the rule.



"You want the public to utilize this treasure," she says of Forest Park,

"but at the same time you don't want to trample all the plants. If you

take out a single trillium, it can take years to come back."



Fred Leeson: 503-294-5946; fredleeson@...















mforness3000@...

Sent by: pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

12/03/2008 03:43 PM

Please respond to

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com





To

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

cc



Subject

[pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP













see here...



http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=470789



and then here...



http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=473762



I think that this potentially could be positive if done right...what do

ya'll think?



~matt









If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you

have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your

cooperation.  =



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Roger,



Thanks for the background before we go forward.



Jordan



On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:49 AM, <roger.louton@...> wrote:



>   Does anyone know who 'Free Agent' is before I contact him? There are

> rules

> within the

> Parks Dept. for organized events in Public Parks, and the main rule that

> concerns bicycle

> events in a PDX Park is: "Only Permits allowed for Bicycle Related Events

> are for Paved Surfaces.". How do I know this?

> In March of 2005, I attempted to add a 'Forest Park Loop' for the Bridge

> Pedal, working with

> Ric Bauman the guy who owns that event. We even had the support of Fred

> Nilsen, the Forest Park Manager at the time,

> but the Parks Dept came back with that rule.

>

> Before this ride gets some traction, let's make sure we don't create

> enemies with Parks, FP Neighborhood Associations

> and the Forest Park Conservancy.

>

> I applaud the idea, but it needs to be done right.

>

> This article will explain how the city views events in the

> park..........which is interesting, because they STILL allow

> the 'Run For The Wildwood', which violates these rules:

> ----------------------------------------------------

> Forest Park goes with scaled-down approach

>

> Thursday, April 06, 2006

> Fred Leeson

>

> When members and friends of the Oregon Road Runners Club scampered the

> entire length of Forest Park late last month -- some of them twice -- it

> marked the last large-scale event in the sprawling park's north end.

>

> The Bureau of Parks & Recreation has eliminated big events in so-called

> North Management Unit, considered the most sensitive habitat for wild

> plants and animals. Further, the new policy would prefer that informal

> group runs or walks that involve more than 20 participants stay out, too,

> between Northwest Germantown and Newberry roads. "Protecting natural

> resources and wildlife habitat is of utmost importance in this management

> unit," the policy states.

>

> The City Council endorsed the restriction more than a decade ago in a

> Forest Park management plan, but it never was implemented.

>

> Jim Sjulin, a Parks Bureau nature zone manager, says the new policy stems

> from increased human use in the past decade and lobbying from the Friends

> of Forest Park.

>

> "The Friends has been asking us for a couple years to look at our event

> policies, and to make the policies consistent with the management plan,"

> he says.

>

> The new policy also restricts events to a maximum of 100 people and only

> in May through October in the Central unit, between Firelane No. 1 and

> Northwest Germantown Road. In the South unit closest to the city, between

> West Burnside and Firelane No. 1, it limits participants to 500

> year-around.

>

> Gail Snyder, director of the Friends, has seen "an explosion" of racing

> and other events since the 1995 plan. "I think it's a positive step," she

> says. "It does help protect the north end."

>

> Snyder, who also is an ultramarathoner, notes that the new policy does not

> restrict individuals from training or from riding horses in the North

> Unit. But she notes that the most remote area should be reserved mostly

> for passive use such as hiking and bird watching.

>

> "We're trying to maintain the North Unit as a natural area park, and not

> have it perceived as an arena for events," Snyder says. "We have plenty of

> other places for events."

>

> Snyder counts at least 20 kinds of group activities that occur in Forest

> Park. Some, like geocaching, were unheard of when the City Council adopted

> the park management plan. Geocachers use global positioning devices to

> search for hidden items. Sjulin says people leaving trails do the worst

> damage in sensitive habitats such as the North Unit.

>

> Monika Gold, race director for the final "March Mudness" road run, says

> she accepts the rule.

>

> "You want the public to utilize this treasure," she says of Forest Park,

> "but at the same time you don't want to trample all the plants. If you

> take out a single trillium, it can take years to come back."

>

> Fred Leeson: 503-294-5946;

fredleeson@...<fredleeson%40news.oregonian.com>

>

> mforness3000@... <mforness3000%40hotmail.com>

> Sent by: pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com>

> 12/03/2008 03:43 PM

> Please respond to

> pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com>

>

> To

> pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com>

> cc

>

> Subject

> [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP

>

> see here...

>

> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=470789

>

> and then here...

>

> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=473762

>

> I think that this potentially could be positive if done right...what do

> ya'll think?

>

> ~matt

>

> If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that

> you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your

> cooperation. =

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Doing any sort of ride like this without parks permission will only invite

trouble.



Shane







jordan.norris1@...

Sent by: pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

12/04/2008 11:54 AM

Please respond to

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com





To

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

cc



Subject

Re: [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP













Roger,



Thanks for the background before we go forward.



Jordan



On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:49 AM, <roger.louton@...> wrote:



> Does anyone know who 'Free Agent' is before I contact him? There are

> rules

> within the

> Parks Dept. for organized events in Public Parks, and the main rule that

> concerns bicycle

> events in a PDX Park is: "Only Permits allowed for Bicycle Related

Events

> are for Paved Surfaces.". How do I know this?

> In March of 2005, I attempted to add a 'Forest Park Loop' for the Bridge

> Pedal, working with

> Ric Bauman the guy who owns that event. We even had the support of Fred

> Nilsen, the Forest Park Manager at the time,

> but the Parks Dept came back with that rule.

>

> Before this ride gets some traction, let's make sure we don't create

> enemies with Parks, FP Neighborhood Associations

> and the Forest Park Conservancy.

>

> I applaud the idea, but it needs to be done right.

>

> This article will explain how the city views events in the

> park..........which is interesting, because they STILL allow

> the 'Run For The Wildwood', which violates these rules:

> ----------------------------------------------------

> Forest Park goes with scaled-down approach

>

> Thursday, April 06, 2006

> Fred Leeson

>

> When members and friends of the Oregon Road Runners Club scampered the

> entire length of Forest Park late last month -- some of them twice -- it

> marked the last large-scale event in the sprawling park's north end.

>

> The Bureau of Parks & Recreation has eliminated big events in so-called

> North Management Unit, considered the most sensitive habitat for wild

> plants and animals. Further, the new policy would prefer that informal

> group runs or walks that involve more than 20 participants stay out,

too,

> between Northwest Germantown and Newberry roads. "Protecting natural

> resources and wildlife habitat is of utmost importance in this

management

> unit," the policy states.

>

> The City Council endorsed the restriction more than a decade ago in a

> Forest Park management plan, but it never was implemented.

>

> Jim Sjulin, a Parks Bureau nature zone manager, says the new policy

stems

> from increased human use in the past decade and lobbying from the

Friends

> of Forest Park.

>

> "The Friends has been asking us for a couple years to look at our event

> policies, and to make the policies consistent with the management plan,"

> he says.

>

> The new policy also restricts events to a maximum of 100 people and only

> in May through October in the Central unit, between Firelane No. 1 and

> Northwest Germantown Road. In the South unit closest to the city,

between

> West Burnside and Firelane No. 1, it limits participants to 500

> year-around.

>

> Gail Snyder, director of the Friends, has seen "an explosion" of racing

> and other events since the 1995 plan. "I think it's a positive step,"

she

> says. "It does help protect the north end."

>

> Snyder, who also is an ultramarathoner, notes that the new policy does

not

> restrict individuals from training or from riding horses in the North

> Unit. But she notes that the most remote area should be reserved mostly

> for passive use such as hiking and bird watching.

>

> "We're trying to maintain the North Unit as a natural area park, and not

> have it perceived as an arena for events," Snyder says. "We have plenty

of

> other places for events."

>

> Snyder counts at least 20 kinds of group activities that occur in Forest

> Park. Some, like geocaching, were unheard of when the City Council

adopted

> the park management plan. Geocachers use global positioning devices to

> search for hidden items. Sjulin says people leaving trails do the worst

> damage in sensitive habitats such as the North Unit.

>

> Monika Gold, race director for the final "March Mudness" road run, says

> she accepts the rule.

>

> "You want the public to utilize this treasure," she says of Forest Park,

> "but at the same time you don't want to trample all the plants. If you

> take out a single trillium, it can take years to come back."

>

> Fred Leeson: 503-294-5946; fredleeson@...

<fredleeson%40news.oregonian.com>

>

> mforness3000@... <mforness3000%40hotmail.com>

> Sent by: pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com>

> 12/03/2008 03:43 PM

> Please respond to

> pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com>

>

> To

> pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com>

> cc

>

> Subject

> [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP

>

> see here...

>

> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=470789

>

> and then here...

>

> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=473762

>

> I think that this potentially could be positive if done right...what do

> ya'll think?

>

> ~matt

>

> If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that

> you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for

your

> cooperation. =

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you

have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your

cooperation.  =



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think they are doing it partly because they know they would never get

permission, it's more of a protest/demonstration type thing.



On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:59 AM, <shane.gould@...> wrote:



>   Doing any sort of ride like this without parks permission will only

> invite

> trouble.

>

> Shane

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Then PUMP or IMBA should not have there name attached to it.  It is a

great way to destroy any relationships that have been built.



Shane









bcr123@...

Sent by: pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

12/04/2008 12:07 PM

Please respond to

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com





To

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

cc



Subject

Re: [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP













I think they are doing it partly because they know they would never get

permission, it's more of a protest/demonstration type thing.



On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:59 AM, <shane.gould@...> wrote:



> Doing any sort of ride like this without parks permission will only

> invite

> trouble.

>

> Shane

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you

have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your

cooperation.  =



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In pumpclub@yahoogroups.com, shane.gould@... wrote:

>

> Then PUMP or IMBA should not have there name attached to it.  It is

a

> great way to destroy any relationships that have been built.

>

> Shane We have enough trouble getting permission bad Idea

>

>

>

>

> bcr123@...

> Sent by: pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

> 12/04/2008 12:07 PM

> Please respond to

> pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

>

>

> To

> pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

> cc

>

> Subject

> Re: [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I think they are doing it partly because they know they would never

get

> permission, it's more of a protest/demonstration type thing.

>

> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:59 AM, <shane.gould@...> wrote:

>

> > Doing any sort of ride like this without parks permission will

only

> > invite

> > trouble.

> >

> > Shane

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

> If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately

that you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank

you for your cooperation.  =

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

Personally, I think the fact that this person is talking about doing this

demonstration ride purely because "it seems there's nothing happening" to

allow mountain biking to expand in FP.   Poster even went so far as to say

the Forest Park section of pumpclub.org hadn't been updated "since 1986"

(obviously being sarcastic but the point was made).



I think this underscores one important fact more than anything... There is a

lack of local mountain biking advocacy communication happening.  People

aren't sure how to get involved, what the important topics/projects are, and

there's serious lack of unified voice.    Just saying... this is one of

those cases that points to a larger issue which has a solution if certain

steps are taken instead of attempting to continuing doing what doesn't work.





On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:17 PM, <shane.gould@...> wrote:



>   Then PUMP or IMBA should not have there name attached to it. It is a

> great way to destroy any relationships that have been built.

>

> Shane

>

>

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joe is right, doing the same thing incorrectly over and over will never

make it happen,

BUT I must note that I personally have received, over the last 5+ years,

15 to 20

emails from various people saying the same thing: "I want to help with

doing something

to build more singletrack, volunteer with talking to Parks/City folks,

plan trails, etc.",

but out of all those contacts I bet 2 or 3 ever showed up when we had a

PUMP meeting or

Forest Park specific meeting they were invited to join in on. Lots of

talk, no action, just poaching.



So we must work on a way to do things differently, BUT everyone must

realize that Parks

Dept. is very leery in anyway of changing anything access-wsie that is not

specifically written in the

1995 Forest Park plan. A bunch of people just jumping up and down, crying

about it

won't make any impression with the people that make the decisions.









jrykowski@...

Sent by: pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

12/04/2008 12:27 PM

Please respond to

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com





To

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

cc



Subject

Re: [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP













Personally, I think the fact that this person is talking about doing this

demonstration ride purely because "it seems there's nothing happening" to

allow mountain biking to expand in FP. Poster even went so far as to say

the Forest Park section of pumpclub.org hadn't been updated "since 1986"

(obviously being sarcastic but the point was made).



I think this underscores one important fact more than anything... There is

a

lack of local mountain biking advocacy communication happening. People

aren't sure how to get involved, what the important topics/projects are,

and

there's serious lack of unified voice. Just saying... this is one of

those cases that points to a larger issue which has a solution if certain

steps are taken instead of attempting to continuing doing what doesn't

work.



On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:17 PM, <shane.gould@...> wrote:



> Then PUMP or IMBA should not have there name attached to it. It is a

> great way to destroy any relationships that have been built.

>

> Shane

>

>

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you

have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your

cooperation.  =



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am 100% for the idea of the massive group ride. It brings attention to the

need for more bike access on Forest Park Trails.  If the event is big enough

and planned well enough it will be news worthy.  This is a lot better way of

getting the cities attention than the current approach of people poaching

trails.  We need to act now, before the illegal actions of a few sets us

back.







With a clear vision and leadership this can be a successful event.







The question is who is leading this thing?  Will the leader(s) please stand

up.







Ted D















    _____



From: pumpclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pumpclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Of roger.louton@...

Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:46 PM

To: pumpclub@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP







Joe is right, doing the same thing incorrectly over and over will never

make it happen,

BUT I must note that I personally have received, over the last 5+ years,

15 to 20

emails from various people saying the same thing: "I want to help with

doing something

to build more singletrack, volunteer with talking to Parks/City folks,

plan trails, etc.",

but out of all those contacts I bet 2 or 3 ever showed up when we had a

PUMP meeting or

Forest Park specific meeting they were invited to join in on. Lots of

talk, no action, just poaching.



So we must work on a way to do things differently, BUT everyone must

realize that Parks

Dept. is very leery in anyway of changing anything access-wsie that is not

specifically written in the

1995 Forest Park plan. A bunch of people just jumping up and down, crying

about it

won't make any impression with the people that make the decisions.



HYPERLINK "mailto:jrykowski%40gmail.com"jrykowski@gmail.-com

Sent by: HYPERLINK

"mailto:pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com"pumpclub@...

12/04/2008 12:27 PM

Please respond to

HYPERLINK "mailto:pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com"pumpclub@...



To

HYPERLINK "mailto:pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com"pumpclub@...

cc



Subject

Re: [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP



Personally, I think the fact that this person is talking about doing this

demonstration ride purely because "it seems there's nothing happening" to

allow mountain biking to expand in FP. Poster even went so far as to say

the Forest Park section of pumpclub.org hadn't been updated "since 1986"

(obviously being sarcastic but the point was made).



I think this underscores one important fact more than anything... There is

a

lack of local mountain biking advocacy communication happening. People

aren't sure how to get involved, what the important topics/projects are,

and

there's serious lack of unified voice. Just saying... this is one of

those cases that points to a larger issue which has a solution if certain

steps are taken instead of attempting to continuing doing what doesn't

work.



On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:17 PM, <HYPERLINK

"mailto:shane.gould%40daimler.com"shane.gould@-daimler.com> wrote:



> Then PUMP or IMBA should not have there name attached to it. It is a

> great way to destroy any relationships that have been built.

>

> Shane

>

>

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you

have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your

cooperation. =



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1832 - Release Date: 12/5/2008

9:57 AM







No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1832 - Release Date: 12/5/2008

9:57 AM







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Everybody has good ideas both for or against.  The biggest reason I am

for it is due to the fact that the effort is fairly splintered.  That

makes it easy for those with the power to brush off a small number of

people with no repercussions.  A large group ride that gets media

attention shows that there is a big user group that is being

under-served.  The idea would be that it puts pressure on the City and

the Forest Park Conservancy to do something about it.  It might be

helpful to frame this 'event' in the context of Portland being a

Platinum bike city, but not really having singletrack.



I would agree that PUMP and IMBA shouldn't have their names attached

so they don't get accused of planning or inciting the whole thing.  It

almost ends up being a two-pronged campaign.  PUMP and IMBA working

with the planners and large groups hitting the dirt to emphasis what

we are working for.  This way PUMP can say, "We've been telling you

this for years!"



The ride should be respectful, slower paced and jovial.  There are

always some a-holes in critical mass rides, so ideally there would be

marshalls of some sort to mediate conflict.



Has anybody been able to reach FreeAgent?

On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 12:27:33PM -0800, Joe Rykowski wrote:

> I think this underscores one important fact more than anything... There is a

> lack of local mountain biking advocacy communication happening.  People

> aren't sure how to get involved, what the important topics/projects are, and

> there's serious lack of unified voice.    Just saying... this is one of

> those cases that points to a larger issue which has a solution if certain

> steps are taken instead of attempting to continuing doing what doesn't work.



What is the larger issue?



And what steps need to be taken?



Look at what has happened and where we're at now.



We waited years just to get a small bit of single track on FL5 opened, and

AFAIK there are no plans for any single track in the near future!



I'm not saying any organization or club should support a large

unsanctioned ride in FP, since that would obviously violate the parks

rules (as posted here).



But if a large number of bikers happen to bike FP on the same day, and

non-bikers complain, the parks department will have to deal with the issue

rather than letting the status quo continue. It would be difficult if not

impossible for them to ban bikes in FP.



The squeaky wheel does get the oil ...



-- Patrick Mansfield

Larger issue - lots of splinter groups of riders, lack of clear lines of

communication, a lack of cohesive group lead by a strong organization with a

clear stategy, good management practices, and involvement of bike industry,

tourism advocacy groups, and other resources.   (Solutions? IMBA's new

Regional structure will help, but also a unified Portland area/vacinity

regional alliance organization groups could align under).



(Alternate) steps to be taken?  Contact a local bike shop a local mountain

biking group (such as PUMP) and figure out how to best get involved to

support efforts (positively without crushing good gains already struggled to

achieve)...     Get plugged into existing efforts is what I'm saying (and if

group fails to engage you, get involved with a different...)     Perhaps,

and this is just a suggestion (if this hasn't already happened), help land

managers conduct a true study to gauge the real number of users gunning to

ride their bikes on single-track in forest park.   COMMUNICATE (with each

other).



The squeeky wheel is usually caused by a loose or broken spoke (and so the

other spokes are doing extra work)... so usually I yank the spoke out or

retention it... maybe even get the whole wheel laced back up nicely by an

expert.





On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Patrick Mansfield <patman@...>wrote:



>   On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 12:27:33PM -0800, Joe Rykowski wrote:

> > I think this underscores one important fact more than anything... There

> is a

> > lack of local mountain biking advocacy communication happening. People

> > aren't sure how to get involved, what the important topics/projects are,

> and

> > there's serious lack of unified voice. Just saying... this is one of

> > those cases that points to a larger issue which has a solution if certain

> > steps are taken instead of attempting to continuing doing what doesn't

> work.

>

> What is the larger issue?

>

> And what steps need to be taken?

>

> Look at what has happened and where we're at now.

>

> We waited years just to get a small bit of single track on FL5 opened, and

> AFAIK there are no plans for any single track in the near future!

>

> I'm not saying any organization or club should support a large

> unsanctioned ride in FP, since that would obviously violate the parks

> rules (as posted here).

>

> But if a large number of bikers happen to bike FP on the same day, and

> non-bikers complain, the parks department will have to deal with the issue

> rather than letting the status quo continue. It would be difficult if not

> impossible for them to ban bikes in FP.

>

> The squeaky wheel does get the oil ...

>

> -- Patrick Mansfield

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My first thought when I saw this was critical mass. There always seems to be a

few a-holes in those rides.



To: pumpclub@...: shane.gould@...: Thu, 4 Dec 2008

11:59:55 -0800Subject: Re: [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP







Doing any sort of ride like this without parks permission will only invite

trouble.Shanejordan.norris1@... Sent by:

pumpclub@.../04/2008 11:54 AMPlease respond

topumpclub@...@yahoogroups.comccSubjectRe: [pumpclub]

possible massive group ride in FPRoger,Thanks for the background before we go

forward.JordanOn Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:49 AM, <roger.louton@...>

wrote:> Does anyone know who 'Free Agent' is before I contact him? There are>

rules> within the> Parks Dept. for organized events in Public Parks, and the

main rule that> concerns bicycle> events in a PDX Park is: "Only Permits allowed

for Bicycle Related Events> are for Paved Surfaces.". How do I know this?> In

March of 2005, I attempted to add a 'Forest Park Loop' for the Bridge> Pedal,

working with> Ric Bauman the guy who owns that event. We even had the support of

Fred> Nilsen, the Forest Park Manager at the time,> but the Parks Dept came back

with that rule.>> Before this ride gets some traction, let's make sure we don't

create> enemies with Parks, FP Neighborhood Associations> and the Forest Park

Conservancy.>> I applaud the idea, but it needs to be done right.>> This article

will explain how the city views events in the> park..........which is

interesting, because they STILL allow> the 'Run For The Wildwood', which

violates these rules:> ---------------------------------------------------->

Forest Park goes with scaled-down approach>> Thursday, April 06, 2006> Fred

Leeson>> When members and friends of the Oregon Road Runners Club scampered the>

entire length of Forest Park late last month -- some of them twice -- it> marked

the last large-scale event in the sprawling park's north end.>> The Bureau of

Parks & Recreation has eliminated big events in so-called> North Management

Unit, considered the most sensitive habitat for wild> plants and animals.

Further, the new policy would prefer that informal> group runs or walks that

involve more than 20 participants stay out, too,> between Northwest Germantown

and Newberry roads. "Protecting natural> resources and wildlife habitat is of

utmost importance in this management> unit," the policy states.>> The City

Council endorsed the restriction more than a decade ago in a> Forest Park

management plan, but it never was implemented.>> Jim Sjulin, a Parks Bureau

nature zone manager, says the new policy stems> from increased human use in the

past decade and lobbying from the Friends> of Forest Park.>> "The Friends has

been asking us for a couple years to look at our event> policies, and to make

the policies consistent with the management plan,"> he says.>> The new policy

also restricts events to a maximum of 100 people and only> in May through

October in the Central unit, between Firelane No. 1 and> Northwest Germantown

Road. In the South unit closest to the city, between> West Burnside and Firelane

No. 1, it limits participants to 500> year-around.>> Gail Snyder, director of

the Friends, has seen "an explosion" of racing> and other events since the 1995

plan. "I think it's a positive step," she> says. "It does help protect the north

end.">> Snyder, who also is an ultramarathoner, notes that the new policy does

not> restrict individuals from training or from riding horses in the North>

Unit. But she notes that the most remote area should be reserved mostly> for

passive use such as hiking and bird watching.>> "We're trying to maintain the

North Unit as a natural area park, and not> have it perceived as an arena for

events," Snyder says. "We have plenty of> other places for events.">> Snyder

counts at least 20 kinds of group activities that occur in Forest> Park. Some,

like geocaching, were unheard of when the City Council adopted> the park

management plan. Geocachers use global positioning devices to> search for hidden

items. Sjulin says people leaving trails do the worst> damage in sensitive

habitats such as the North Unit.>> Monika Gold, race director for the final

"March Mudness" road run, says> she accepts the rule.>> "You want the public to

utilize this treasure," she says of Forest Park,> "but at the same time you

don't want to trample all the plants. If you> take out a single trillium, it can

take years to come back.">> Fred Leeson: 503-294-5946;

fredleeson@...<fredleeson%40news.oregonian.com>>>

mforness3000@... <mforness3000%40hotmail.com>> Sent by:

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com>> 12/03/2008 03:43 PM>

Please respond to> pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com>>> To>

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com>> cc>> Subject> [pumpclub]

possible massive group ride in FP>> see here...>>

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=470789>> and then here...>>

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=473762>> I think that this potentially

could be positive if done right...what do> ya'll think?>> ~matt>> If you are not

the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that> you have received

this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your> cooperation. =>>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>> >[Non-text portions of

this message have been removed]If you are not the intended addressee, please

inform us immediately that you have received this e-mail in error, and delete

it. We thank you for your cooperation. =[Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So, this reminded me a little of prohibition years.  Yes, I'm that old.  So

the government outlawed alcohol and up sprouted the mafia, speakeasy's, and

breaking of laws left and right.  Not to mention the continued massive

amounts of drinking.  But, low and behold, they couldn't control it.  So

they dropped the laws, taxed alcohol, the government got rich, and then they

shifted their concerns to the psychotic affects of marijuana.



So, I propose this:



We hit the local bar, get thoroughly juiced, and then have drunken forest

park mtb ride fests flying banners and signs every day.  We hit the trails

with tommy guns, and pop a cap in anyone trying to score on our turf.

Eventually we'll get to the point that we can't be controlled and therefore

the powers that be have to legalize it, and who knows, maybe tax it.  In the

process they'll shift their eyes to the real trouble makers.  Pot smoking

dog walkers that don't pick up their poop.  Insanity I tell ya.



There you go, dennis logic.







See my response to free agent



http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=473762







.





<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=170959/grpspId=1705067479/msgId=

14691/stime=1228432729/nc1=4767086/nc2=3848621/nc3=4025304>









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You mean you and me?



On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Aaron Althauser <AaronAlthauser@...>wrote:



>

> My first thought when I saw this was critical mass. There always seems to

> be a few a-holes in those rides.

>

> To: pumpclub@... <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.comFrom>:

> shane.gould@... <shane.gould%40daimler.comDate>: Thu, 4 Dec

> 2008 11:59:55 -0800Subject: Re: [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP

>

> Doing any sort of ride like this without parks permission will only invite

>

trouble.Shanejordan.norris1@...<trouble.Shanejordan.norris1%40gmail.com>Se\

nt by:

> pumpclub@... <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com12>/04/2008 11:54

> AMPlease respond

topumpclub@...<topumpclub%40yahoogroups.comTopumpclub>@yah\

oogroups.comccSubjectRe:

> [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FPRoger,Thanks for the background

> before we go forward.JordanOn Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:49 AM, <

> roger.louton@... <roger.louton%40daimler.com>> wrote:> Does anyone

> know who 'Free Agent' is before I contact him? There are> rules> within the>

> Parks Dept. for organized events in Public Parks, and the main rule that>

> concerns bicycle> events in a PDX Park is: "Only Permits allowed for Bicycle

> Related Events> are for Paved Surfaces.". How do I know this?> In March of

> 2005, I attempted to add a 'Forest Park Loop' for the Bridge> Pedal, working

> with> Ric Bauman the guy who owns that event. We even had the support of

> Fred> Nilsen, the Forest Park Manager at the time,> but the Parks Dept came

> back with that rule.>> Before this ride gets some traction, let's make sure

> we don't create> enemies with Parks, FP Neighborhood Associations> and the

> Forest Park Conservancy.>> I applaud the idea, but it needs to be done

> right.>> This article will explain how the city views events in the>

> park..........which is interesting, because they STILL allow> the 'Run For

> The Wildwood', which violates these rules:>

> ----------------------------------------------------> Forest Park goes with

> scaled-down approach>> Thursday, April 06, 2006> Fred Leeson>> When members

> and friends of the Oregon Road Runners Club scampered the> entire length of

> Forest Park late last month -- some of them twice -- it> marked the last

> large-scale event in the sprawling park's north end.>> The Bureau of Parks &

> Recreation has eliminated big events in so-called> North Management Unit,

> considered the most sensitive habitat for wild> plants and animals. Further,

> the new policy would prefer that informal> group runs or walks that involve

> more than 20 participants stay out, too,> between Northwest Germantown and

> Newberry roads. "Protecting natural> resources and wildlife habitat is of

> utmost importance in this management> unit," the policy states.>> The City

> Council endorsed the restriction more than a decade ago in a> Forest Park

> management plan, but it never was implemented.>> Jim Sjulin, a Parks Bureau

> nature zone manager, says the new policy stems> from increased human use in

> the past decade and lobbying from the Friends> of Forest Park.>> "The

> Friends has been asking us for a couple years to look at our event>

> policies, and to make the policies consistent with the management plan,"> he

> says.>> The new policy also restricts events to a maximum of 100 people and

> only> in May through October in the Central unit, between Firelane No. 1

> and> Northwest Germantown Road. In the South unit closest to the city,

> between> West Burnside and Firelane No. 1, it limits participants to 500>

> year-around.>> Gail Snyder, director of the Friends, has seen "an explosion"

> of racing> and other events since the 1995 plan. "I think it's a positive

> step," she> says. "It does help protect the north end.">> Snyder, who also

> is an ultramarathoner, notes that the new policy does not> restrict

> individuals from training or from riding horses in the North> Unit. But she

> notes that the most remote area should be reserved mostly> for passive use

> such as hiking and bird watching.>> "We're trying to maintain the North Unit

> as a natural area park, and not> have it perceived as an arena for events,"

> Snyder says. "We have plenty of> other places for events.">> Snyder counts

> at least 20 kinds of group activities that occur in Forest> Park. Some, like

> geocaching, were unheard of when the City Council adopted> the park

> management plan. Geocachers use global positioning devices to> search for

> hidden items. Sjulin says people leaving trails do the worst> damage in

> sensitive habitats such as the North Unit.>> Monika Gold, race director for

> the final "March Mudness" road run, says> she accepts the rule.>> "You want

> the public to utilize this treasure," she says of Forest Park,> "but at the

> same time you don't want to trample all the plants. If you> take out a

> single trillium, it can take years to come back.">> Fred Leeson:

> 503-294-5946; fredleeson@...<fredleeson%40news.oregonian.com>

> <fredleeson%40news.oregonian.com>>>

mforness3000@...<mforness3000%40hotmail.com><mforness3000%

> 40hotmail.com>> Sent by:

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com<pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com><pumpclub%

> 40yahoogroups.com>> 12/03/2008 03:43 PM> Please respond to>

> pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com> <pumpclub%

> 40yahoogroups.com>>> To>

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com<pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com><pumpclub%

> 40yahoogroups.com>> cc>> Subject> [pumpclub] possible massive group ride

> in FP>> see here...>> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=470789>> and

> then here...>> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=473762>> I think

> that this potentially could be positive if done right...what do> ya'll

> think?>> ~matt>> If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us

> immediately that> you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We

> thank you for your> cooperation. =>> [Non-text portions of this message have

> been removed]>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]If you

> are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you have

> received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your

> cooperation. =[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>







--

iamerichearmeroar





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My wife keeps telling me this too.



To: pumpclub@...: ewascent@...: Fri, 5 Dec 2008

12:45:35 -0800Subject: Re: [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP







You mean you and me?On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Aaron Althauser

<AaronAlthauser@...>wrote:>> My first thought when I saw this was critical

mass. There always seems to> be a few a-holes in those rides.>> To:

pumpclub@... <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.comFrom>:>

shane.gould@... <shane.gould%40daimler.comDate>: Thu, 4 Dec> 2008

11:59:55 -0800Subject: Re: [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in FP>> Doing

any sort of ride like this without parks permission will only invite>

trouble.Shanejordan.norris1@...<trouble.Shanejordan.norris1%40gmail.com>Se\

nt by:> pumpclub@... <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com12>/04/2008 11:54>

AMPlease respond

topumpclub@...<topumpclub%40yahoogroups.comTopumpclub>@yah\

oogroups.comccSubjectRe:> [pumpclub] possible massive group ride in

FPRoger,Thanks for the background> before we go forward.JordanOn Thu, Dec 4,

2008 at 11:49 AM, <> roger.louton@... <roger.louton%40daimler.com>>

wrote:> Does anyone> know who 'Free Agent' is before I contact him? There are>

rules> within the>> Parks Dept. for organized events in Public Parks, and the

main rule that>> concerns bicycle> events in a PDX Park is: "Only Permits

allowed for Bicycle> Related Events> are for Paved Surfaces.". How do I know

this?> In March of> 2005, I attempted to add a 'Forest Park Loop' for the

Bridge> Pedal, working> with> Ric Bauman the guy who owns that event. We even

had the support of> Fred> Nilsen, the Forest Park Manager at the time,> but the

Parks Dept came> back with that rule.>> Before this ride gets some traction,

let's make sure> we don't create> enemies with Parks, FP Neighborhood

Associations> and the> Forest Park Conservancy.>> I applaud the idea, but it

needs to be done> right.>> This article will explain how the city views events

in the>> park..........which is interesting, because they STILL allow> the 'Run

For> The Wildwood', which violates these rules:>>

----------------------------------------------------> Forest Park goes with>

scaled-down approach>> Thursday, April 06, 2006> Fred Leeson>> When members> and

friends of the Oregon Road Runners Club scampered the> entire length of> Forest

Park late last month -- some of them twice -- it> marked the last> large-scale

event in the sprawling park's north end.>> The Bureau of Parks &> Recreation has

eliminated big events in so-called> North Management Unit,> considered the most

sensitive habitat for wild> plants and animals. Further,> the new policy would

prefer that informal> group runs or walks that involve> more than 20

participants stay out, too,> between Northwest Germantown and> Newberry roads.

"Protecting natural> resources and wildlife habitat is of> utmost importance in

this management> unit," the policy states.>> The City> Council endorsed the

restriction more than a decade ago in a> Forest Park> management plan, but it

never was implemented.>> Jim Sjulin, a Parks Bureau> nature zone manager, says

the new policy stems> from increased human use in> the past decade and lobbying

from the Friends> of Forest Park.>> "The> Friends has been asking us for a

couple years to look at our event>> policies, and to make the policies

consistent with the management plan,"> he> says.>> The new policy also restricts

events to a maximum of 100 people and> only> in May through October in the

Central unit, between Firelane No. 1> and> Northwest Germantown Road. In the

South unit closest to the city,> between> West Burnside and Firelane No. 1, it

limits participants to 500>> year-around.>> Gail Snyder, director of the

Friends, has seen "an explosion"> of racing> and other events since the 1995

plan. "I think it's a positive> step," she> says. "It does help protect the

north end.">> Snyder, who also> is an ultramarathoner, notes that the new policy

does not> restrict> individuals from training or from riding horses in the

North> Unit. But she> notes that the most remote area should be reserved mostly>

for passive use> such as hiking and bird watching.>> "We're trying to maintain

the North Unit> as a natural area park, and not> have it perceived as an arena

for events,"> Snyder says. "We have plenty of> other places for events.">>

Snyder counts> at least 20 kinds of group activities that occur in Forest> Park.

Some, like> geocaching, were unheard of when the City Council adopted> the park>

management plan. Geocachers use global positioning devices to> search for>

hidden items. Sjulin says people leaving trails do the worst> damage in>

sensitive habitats such as the North Unit.>> Monika Gold, race director for> the

final "March Mudness" road run, says> she accepts the rule.>> "You want> the

public to utilize this treasure," she says of Forest Park,> "but at the> same

time you don't want to trample all the plants. If you> take out a> single

trillium, it can take years to come back.">> Fred Leeson:> 503-294-5946;

fredleeson@...<fredleeson%40news.oregonian.com>>

<fredleeson%40news.oregonian.com>>>

mforness3000@...<mforness3000%40hotmail.com><mforness3000%>

40hotmail.com>> Sent by:

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com<pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com><pumpclub%>

40yahoogroups.com>> 12/03/2008 03:43 PM> Please respond to>>

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com <pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com> <pumpclub%>

40yahoogroups.com>>> To>

pumpclub@yahoogroups.com<pumpclub%40yahoogroups.com><pumpclub%>

40yahoogroups.com>> cc>> Subject> [pumpclub] possible massive group ride> in

FP>> see here...>> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=470789>> and> then

here...>> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=473762>> I think> that this

potentially could be positive if done right...what do> ya'll> think?>> ~matt>>

If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us> immediately that> you

have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We> thank you for your>

cooperation. =>> [Non-text portions of this message have> been removed]>>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]If you> are not the

intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you have> received this

e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your> cooperation. =[Non-text

portions of this message have been removed]>> [Non-text portions of this message

have been removed]>> >-- iamerichearmeroar[Non-text portions of this message

have been removed]













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]