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#16222 From: "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:33 pm
Subject: Re: Pats not sustaining drives
PatriotZip
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Vollmer was fantastic and deserves considerable praise for his excellent game. 
I would prefer he be our Left Tackle if
he continues to play at such a high level.  Kaiczur and Light could either be
the right tackle though I'm not sure how
matt would take to it nor how long he has left playing.  His contract is a left
tackle (higher priced) deal and that
makes it cap wise a little more challenging as well as the youth potential of
Kaiczur to play longer as  a Patriot.

My perfect world puts Light at Right Tackle for now with everyone being
comfortable with the shift...failing that I'd
error on the side of most riding Light's injury a little longer to be more
certain of the decision before Vollmer just
gets the job.

Go Pats!
Zip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Machado.Nicholas" <machado.nicholas@...>
To: <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 11:47 AM
Subject: [patriotzip] Pats not sustaining drives


> Wasn't too long ago that the Pats offense could sustain drives taking 8-12
> minutes regularly. Since Randy Moss came aboard that has changed and
> scoring drives often take just a few minutes with the long bombs down the
> field. The result is that the Pats defense is on the field way too much.
> Last night was a prime example. They scored 34 points, had drives that
> could have produced 14 more points at least yet the defense was walking on
> their tongues early in the fourth quarter. In the old days that much
> offense meant a well rested defense in the fourth. Don't get me wrong I
> like RM a lot but the way he is being used has changed the face of the Pats
> offense and the result is loses where there used to be wins in these big
> games.
>
> Nice to see Vollmer establish himself on the left side. He stood up well to
> a big test with Freeney. Here is a vote to plug Matt Light into Kaczur's spot.
>
> Harry
>


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#16221 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:08 pm
Subject: Re: Handling the Pats Final possession with a lead
Rich_Carr
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With respect to the timeout before the 4th down play.  One of the
media blogs (Extra Points, I think) said that the TO was called
because some members of the punt team started running on the field
which caused some members of the offense to come off the field,
even though BB had already decided to go for it.  Apparently the
decision was not well-communicated to the troops.  Sigh.

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#16220 From: "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:56 pm
Subject: Handling the Pats Final possession with a lead
PatriotZip
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Several things took place on our last possession and even I have some hindsight
so I thought I'd try to break down some
of my perspectives on the various situations and decisions.

I doubt folks will change opinions though hopefully most folk recognize the
difference from opinion to fact.  There are
convincing reasons for several different decisions along the way and ultimately
the only thing which matters for the
team is to get themselves as ready as possible going forward.  Tedy has some
strong opinions today on the insult to the
defense and ultimately the entire team needs to do all possible to make
themselves a better and more successful team
going forward.

Pats take the Ball on the 20 after a kickoff and strangely have the wrong
personell/play which causes a time-out to be
wasted.  This is bad situational football and very frustrating for a team which
has often demonstrated situational
football as a strength.  Sure there are factors like the speed of the Colts
score, the atmosphere and the key absence
of a few players and replacement of inexperience but all of this should have
been managed by the coaching and it had a
derisive impact on the game.

So what did they do with this situation?  On first and 10 with 2:23 they ran
Faulk out of the shotgun formation for no
gain.

This started the clock and first Indy to use their first time-out.  The shotgun
formation made it look like a pass
could be an option and given how Faulk had run against them in the first half it
had some merit.  It was straight up
the middle so unlikely to lose valuable yardage.  It let them see Indy's
formation for their next play in which at 2:18
and having time to chat during Indy's timeout they went to Welker on a WR screen
for 8 yards.  Again this was a high
percentage pass and got better than anticipated yardage for an Indianapolis team
which was selling out on the short
game because they knew a first down ended the game as much as a touchdown.


Colts use their second timeout and with 2:11 the Patriots can once again
evaluate their play and approach.  They run a
very similar play to Welker which is nearly picked off (might have helped us
ultimately to have that be a pick 6) and
featured Brady having immense pressure and very tight coverage at the line. 
This third down call wouldn't have totally
frustrated me beyond the execution errors except for the fact BB knew he would
go for it on fourth down from this
position as well.  If you know that then I wonder at the use of the shotgun
immensely - it buys Brady a precious moment
or two for a quick pass but it actually creates more freedom for the Colts. 
Mathis was getting good pressure and they
spread out their linebackers and line to be stronger against the slot receivers.
Here I would have lined up under
center under the hope of a QB sneak option to gain some if not all the critical
yards.  If the Colts stacked against it
they do so at the weakening of their outside coverage on slot receivers.  It
takes more time off the clock, probably to
the two minute warning if not burning a third and final Colts timeout...and that
if it doesn't get the first down and
effectively win the game.  Hindsight so let's go forward...

They decide to go and I know there are stats to argue all sorts of ways and
belief structures about who you insult by
going or not going.  Neither our offense or defense had inspired sufficient
confidence on the previous two possessions
each and either can take insult from the situation but ultimately Bellichick
chose his believed best percentage of
winning.  I could have been fine with either call really and I can understand
why folks with differing opinions feel
strongly either way - I do not.  My problem is that Brady walked off the field,
he was surprised by the decision in at
least that much and in that he wasn't ready to get the play and personell and
run the play.  Instead New England called
a time-out in part because of that lack of decision and or preparedness by the
coaches and by Brady.  This gave the
Colts time to rest and evaluate as well.  Now Bellichick pulls out his 'best
play' for this situation which begs the
question, why didn't you use your best play for the situation on third down? 
Accepting that curiosity we run from the
shotgun again which once again prevents Brady from even considerring the QB
sneak if they leave the middle too soft.
I'd at least have stressed lining up under center and dropping back to the
shotgun as needed if the play isn't there.
So Faulk runs just barely enough yardage but has a slight bobble just before
being hit.  Maybe angles or replays might
have given us some slack but we had no room to call for them and I personally
doubt the replays would have conclusively
changed anything there.  Still the larger question is why did the route of the
best play call for so little margin for
error?  Why did it target the right side where Mathis was having so much success
and thus tie up another blocker to
help and create some concern for the throwing lane?  Why was Moss' route
identical to help let extra defenders stay
right along that line and not have to give a little more slack and/or attention
to his form of a similar but more
separated route?

It's moot they made the choice and it was Colts ball.  This still left the
defense a chance to make a stop which they
didn't and worse still they took just enough time in doing such to not let the
offense have any reasonable chance at a
field goal because Peyton for all the annoying things wisely had his team take
their time in getting to the touchdown -
that is how (accurately) confident he was on the score.

Giving Addai 14 yards to the one was the effective nail and the coffin and
highlighted how worn down our D-line was
already with injuries and a long game with a particularly high paced and long
fourth quarter.  I would have played a
few things differently including the over-soft prevent in the fourth and the bad
call on Butler for a free 31 yards.
Ultimately though I'm comfortable we had a very talented battle in which our
team wa performing pretty well for much of
it and they did nothing to make me not proud of them nor of my appreciation for
such games.  I want to win and be the
best team - we were not but we were not so far from it that I think it's beyond
reach this very season

Go Pats!
Zip    There were many plays and choices we could have made differently and we
really can't know the results of them
but we know several results of significance.

#16219 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:32 pm
Subject: BB admitted he deciding to go for it after the 3rd down
Rich_Carr
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According to various blog posts covering this morning's press
conference BB said he decided to go for it after the 3rd down
failure.  I know he has more coaching knowledge in his pinky
fingernail than I have, but I have to think you need to make
the GFI decision before the series starts and feed that into
your playcalling for the series.

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#16218 From: Monty Rodrigues <patfan1@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:22 pm
Subject: Re: What an exciting game!
patfan1
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You shouldn't have.
 
I don't even know if it was that bad a decision, and there are quite a few others that feel that way. 
 
Anyway, back to topic ... it'll be interesting to see how this team responds.  I know Bruschi's already come out and said that the defense just can't be happy about this.


From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@...>
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 1:00:08 PM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] What an exciting game!



No, Mr. Rodrigues, I am not sure what motivates a man who has always been as smart as Mr. Belichick. It just seemed like such a crazy decision that it made me wonder if perhaps he had some problems in his life. Drinking is just one example, marital problems could be another, or maybe it is nothing at all and just a rare bad decision for him. The decision seemed almost suicidal to me. That's why I mentioned it. Perhaps I shouldn't have.


From: Monty Rodrigues <patfan1@...>
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 12:04:19 PM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] What an exciting game!

 

A drinking problem?  Seriously?  That's where people (OK, one person) is taking this?


From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 11:49:37 AM
Subject: [patriotzip] What an exciting game!



I have never in my life seen a sporting event as exciting as the game I watched last night! It was a shame it had to end in our defeat. I must wonder why Mr. Belichick did not punt. I have heard from many people that they consider him an arrogant man and I am now wondering if this is so. Even my 7 year old son, who fell asleep and then woke up toward the end of the game asked why we weren't punting. I can not answer this even today. Sometimes I wonder if perhaps Mr. Belichick has a secret drinking problem. It was not a decision a sober man would make. I also must say that I am very impressed with these Colts. I have never seen a team come back so quickly. It was a very exciting game. But even wearing my special Patriots turban could not help us win this one I am afraid.







#16217 From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:00 pm
Subject: Re: What an exciting game!
majeedaamir...
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No, Mr. Rodrigues, I am not sure what motivates a man who has always been as smart as Mr. Belichick. It just seemed like such a crazy decision that it made me wonder if perhaps he had some problems in his life. Drinking is just one example, marital problems could be another, or maybe it is nothing at all and just a rare bad decision for him. The decision seemed almost suicidal to me. That's why I mentioned it. Perhaps I shouldn't have.


From: Monty Rodrigues <patfan1@...>
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 12:04:19 PM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] What an exciting game!

 

A drinking problem?  Seriously?  That's where people (OK, one person) is taking this?


From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 11:49:37 AM
Subject: [patriotzip] What an exciting game!



I have never in my life seen a sporting event as exciting as the game I watched last night! It was a shame it had to end in our defeat. I must wonder why Mr. Belichick did not punt. I have heard from many people that they consider him an arrogant man and I am now wondering if this is so. Even my 7 year old son, who fell asleep and then woke up toward the end of the game asked why we weren't punting. I can not answer this even today. Sometimes I wonder if perhaps Mr. Belichick has a secret drinking problem. It was not a decision a sober man would make. I also must say that I am very impressed with these Colts. I have never seen a team come back so quickly. It was a very exciting game. But even wearing my special Patriots turban could not help us win this one I am afraid.





#16216 From: Monty Rodrigues <patfan1@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:04 pm
Subject: Re: What an exciting game!
patfan1
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A drinking problem?  Seriously?  That's where people (OK, one person) is taking this?


From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@...>
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 11:49:37 AM
Subject: [patriotzip] What an exciting game!



I have never in my life seen a sporting event as exciting as the game I watched last night! It was a shame it had to end in our defeat. I must wonder why Mr. Belichick did not punt. I have heard from many people that they consider him an arrogant man and I am now wondering if this is so. Even my 7 year old son, who fell asleep and then woke up toward the end of the game asked why we weren't punting. I can not answer this even today. Sometimes I wonder if perhaps Mr. Belichick has a secret drinking problem. It was not a decision a sober man would make. I also must say that I am very impressed with these Colts. I have never seen a team come back so quickly. It was a very exciting game. But even wearing my special Patriots turban could not help us win this one I am afraid.




#16215 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:02 pm
Subject: Thoughts on the defensive calls after the 4th down fail
Rich_Carr
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I think this comment from elsewhere has it correctly:

      This is something that no-one's talking about. Belichick (or
      Pees) also deserves blame for another decision...the DEFENSIVE
      calls after Manning took over at the 30. You're up by 6, you have
      no timeouts, less than 2:00 to play. Ideally you want to stop a
      TD, but if you're going to give up a TD, you want to force the
      other team to get it quickly. Plus, you're D-line is gassed and
      unable to get any pressure, and missing their best pass
      rusher. So move those safeties up to the line, and BLITZ BLITZ
      BLITZ. Don't keep anyone back, unless they're supposed to jump
      routes, and instruct them not to tackle a receiver who does catch
      it unless they can force them out of bounds. The disadvantage of
      the blitz is that it risks giving up the "big play"--but this
      isn't that bad of an outcome... you would get the ball back down
      by 1 with plenty of time left. The advantage is that it forces
      the other team to at least do something quickly--and score or no
      score, you want them to do it quickly. Plus, it increases the
      chance of a game-winning turnover. Purds made the good point that
      Indy went all out to stop the first down on 4th-and-two...because
      a first down was just as bad as a TD. This is the reverse. NE
      should have gone all out to try to force a turnover or even an
      incompletion, because giving up a TD is only marginally worse,
      and is much better than giving up a short or medium gain.

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#16214 From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:49 pm
Subject: What an exciting game!
majeedaamir...
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I have never in my life seen a sporting event as exciting as the game I watched last night! It was a shame it had to end in our defeat. I must wonder why Mr. Belichick did not punt. I have heard from many people that they consider him an arrogant man and I am now wondering if this is so. Even my 7 year old son, who fell asleep and then woke up toward the end of the game asked why we weren't punting. I can not answer this even today. Sometimes I wonder if perhaps Mr. Belichick has a secret drinking problem. It was not a decision a sober man would make. I also must say that I am very impressed with these Colts. I have never seen a team come back so quickly. It was a very exciting game. But even wearing my special Patriots turban could not help us win this one I am afraid.


#16213 From: "Machado.Nicholas" <machado.nicholas@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:47 pm
Subject: Pats not sustaining drives
machado.nicholas@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Wasn't too long ago that the Pats offense could sustain drives taking 8-12
minutes regularly. Since Randy Moss came aboard that has changed and
scoring drives often take just a few minutes with the long bombs down the
field. The result is that the Pats defense is on the field way too much.
Last night was a prime example. They scored 34 points, had drives that
could have produced 14 more points at least yet the defense was walking on
their tongues early in the fourth quarter. In the old days that much
offense meant a well rested defense in the fourth. Don't get me wrong I
like RM a lot but the way he is being used has changed the face of the Pats
offense and the result is loses where there used to be wins in these big
games.

Nice to see Vollmer establish himself on the left side. He stood up well to
a big test with Freeney. Here is a vote to plug Matt Light into Kaczur's spot.

Harry

#16212 From: Ed Bryant <edbryant36@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:58 pm
Subject: Re: The Call -OR- My Name is Scott, and I'm a Footballaholic
edbryant36
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Watch ONE game after recording it.  Don't watch it live.  Wait.  Find out the score before you watch it.

If you watch just one game knowing whether OUR team won or lost, in advance, you can watch each play, seeing how that play advanced the cause, or harmed it.  The experience will be far less emotional, much more cerebral.

A word of warning: the NE Patriots are 6 and 3.  A year ago, the NE Patriots were 6 and 3.  The year before, 9 and 0.  So, when subtracting these vicarious rides on the roller coaster that WE take, you might want to consider: have I been luckier in THIS emotional investment than in some others?  At the end of a season in which we did NOT win a championship, can I find a smile remembering Brandon Meriweather sacking Seneca Wallace, sealing the deal on a COME FROM BEHIND win we really needed?

Did Butler get screwed last night any worse than Baltimore got screwed on the holding call when Brady threw to Watson on 4th and game in 2007?  

We lose the occasional game.  I think the payoff as summer to turns to fall is worth MY investement, but hey, if it means too much to you, do what I did as Baltimore went down the field at the end of the 2009 game: work on your breathing!!!!!!!!!!





--- On Mon, 11/16/09, kmacalp@... <kmacalp@...> wrote:

From: kmacalp@... <kmacalp@...>
Subject: [patriotzip] The Call -OR- My Name is Scott, and I'm a Footballaholic
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 3:13 AM

 

Well, I agreed with going for it deep in Dolphins territory last week. I didn't think it was a great idea here. I'd rather make Manning work to get down the field. Of course, he managed the feat in 2006 with what? A minute or so to go? And a year later, where did his brother Eli start from? 85 yards out?
 
I don't know. The result just made me sick. The odds of winning by gaining two yards may be higher than the odds of winning by preventing a 70 yard touchdown drive, but all I can say is, "Arrrggghhhh! !!!" My gut tells me that there's something not right about those Bell theories. I mean you don't want your offense turning the ball over at your own 29, right? Not getting that 4th down is like throwing an interception at your own 29 with about two minutes to play with your team leading. I mean if the analysis is so sound, why not always go for it on 4th and 2 or less from your own territory? I just think something is missing, but I'm not smart enough to do the analysis so what can I say?
 
Anyway, anyone know of any football anonymous type groups? Seriously, I think I need to stop getting so wrapped up in these games like I have some really vital personal stakes involved. When we lose games like this, it's miserable. Here I am at nearly  3:00 AM, unable to sleep. Even when we win a game like this, it's draining. I mean, come on! As a fan, I should have fun win or lose. It should be more fun watching my team win, of course, but there should also be a certain amount of fun just watching the competition and cheering for my team. The knowledge that my team could lose is what should enhance my enjoyment of their wins. It's not like I'm getting paid if my team wins. It's not like anything I do influences the outcome. So, why do I let it matter so much? For my part, this game and my reaction makes me realize I need to put this stuff in better perspective. What I accomplish in my own life should matter more to me than what Bill Belichick or Tom Brady or Adalius Thomas accomplish in their lives. What I do at my own job should matter more to me than what they do at theirs, right? Wow! I'm going to be useful to my employer in about 4 hours. I'll probably not be at my best when I go in, and yet, I think it's okay to criticize Belichick for what he did at his work last night? What's up with that? 
 
I mean look at what I wrote above. "When we lose games like this" and "even when we win a game like this." I didn't notice that until I went back to proofread. "We?" As if I was out there contributing to wins and losses.
 
Does anyone know how I can change this mind set? I hope no one thinks I'm being flippant about alcoholism, it's just that taking these games so seriously seems to be an addiction too. Maybe it's not as destructive as other addictions, but being unable to sleep after certain losses (not all losses, just certain ones) isn't good. There's probably more constructive things I can do with my free time than obsessing too much over the games. I mean watching the games, and reading some news, and interacting with fellow fans is okay. But maybe I go overboard, ya know? 
 
Sincerely,
 
Scott   


#16211 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:28 pm
Subject: On reflection, he was stupid for a slightly different reason
Rich_Carr
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Knowing that he was going to go for it on 4th down, the 3rd-and-2
play should have been a run.  It would have eliminated the two
minute warning as a clock stoppage, may well have picked up the
first down on its own, and even if it didn't, the 4th down may
well have been 4th-and-1 or 4th-and-inches.

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#16210 From: kmacalp@...
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:13 am
Subject: The Call -OR- My Name is Scott, and I'm a Footballaholic
kmacalp
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Well, I agreed with going for it deep in Dolphins territory last week. I didn't think it was a great idea here. I'd rather make Manning work to get down the field. Of course, he managed the feat in 2006 with what? A minute or so to go? And a year later, where did his brother Eli start from? 85 yards out?
 
I don't know. The result just made me sick. The odds of winning by gaining two yards may be higher than the odds of winning by preventing a 70 yard touchdown drive, but all I can say is, "Arrrggghhhh!!!!" My gut tells me that there's something not right about those Bell theories. I mean you don't want your offense turning the ball over at your own 29, right? Not getting that 4th down is like throwing an interception at your own 29 with about two minutes to play with your team leading. I mean if the analysis is so sound, why not always go for it on 4th and 2 or less from your own territory? I just think something is missing, but I'm not smart enough to do the analysis so what can I say?
 
Anyway, anyone know of any football anonymous type groups? Seriously, I think I need to stop getting so wrapped up in these games like I have some really vital personal stakes involved. When we lose games like this, it's miserable. Here I am at nearly  3:00 AM, unable to sleep. Even when we win a game like this, it's draining. I mean, come on! As a fan, I should have fun win or lose. It should be more fun watching my team win, of course, but there should also be a certain amount of fun just watching the competition and cheering for my team. The knowledge that my team could lose is what should enhance my enjoyment of their wins. It's not like I'm getting paid if my team wins. It's not like anything I do influences the outcome. So, why do I let it matter so much? For my part, this game and my reaction makes me realize I need to put this stuff in better perspective. What I accomplish in my own life should matter more to me than what Bill Belichick or Tom Brady or Adalius Thomas accomplish in their lives. What I do at my own job should matter more to me than what they do at theirs, right? Wow! I'm going to be useful to my employer in about 4 hours. I'll probably not be at my best when I go in, and yet, I think it's okay to criticize Belichick for what he did at his work last night? What's up with that? 
 
I mean look at what I wrote above. "When we lose games like this" and "even when we win a game like this." I didn't notice that until I went back to proofread. "We?" As if I was out there contributing to wins and losses.
 
Does anyone know how I can change this mind set? I hope no one thinks I'm being flippant about alcoholism, it's just that taking these games so seriously seems to be an addiction too. Maybe it's not as destructive as other addictions, but being unable to sleep after certain losses (not all losses, just certain ones) isn't good. There's probably more constructive things I can do with my free time than obsessing too much over the games. I mean watching the games, and reading some news, and interacting with fellow fans is okay. But maybe I go overboard, ya know? 
 
Sincerely,
 
Scott   

#16209 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:24 am
Subject: Re: One defense of Belichick
Rich_Carr
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#16208 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:21 am
Subject: One defense of Belichick
Rich_Carr
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http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/defending-belichicks-fourth-down-d\
ecision/

As for people asking about why more prevent later in the game,
they did lose both Banta-Cain and Ninkovitch to injuries during
the game.  Maybe the loss of depth at LB and the loss of QB pressure
(esp from losing TBC) is why they went more to a prevent?

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#16207 From: Ed Bryant <edbryant36@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:10 am
Subject: It's pretty damn easy on the couch
edbryant36
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The Collie PI penalty covered 31 yards, and Coach Belichick will never say if he thought there was another PI penalty or two in store. 
The 2006 and 2007 seasons ended with Mannings trailing by too many points to tie with a FG, so they had to go for a TD.
A year ago in Indy, BB ran out of time-outs and couldn't challenge the spot on 3rd down, so NE wound up with a 3rd and long instead of 1st and a chance to hold onto the ball longer, still with a chance both to score and run out the clock, but with no time outs to lodge a challenge, we had third and long and then fourth and lost 18-15.
This time, what was left standing of the defense was taken off the hook by the coach, but we had no time-outs, either to challenge where Kevin caught the ball, nor to manage the clock, but I'm OK with the coach going for it on fourth down against Atlanta or Baltimore at home, and I'm OK with the decision to go for it at Indy.
This was the best road game by far we've played this year, and it was done without Ty Warren and Jarvis Green on defense.  At the end, BB showed confidence in Sebastian Vollmer and Dan Connolly, playing in place of Matt Light and Steve Neal.  He also showed confidence in Brady and Faulk.   Last time we won at Indy, Faulk scored the winning TD.  Tonight, he just needed two yards.
I wish Brady would stop throwing to Bethea, and Maroney has used up a lifetime of goal line fumbles in Indy.
We are in good shape to win our division.  We are not in good shape to make Indy come to Foxboro.  I doubt anyone on our team thinks we can't win at Indy, but I hope the team knows we can't afford to lose to the the Jets in the division next Sunday.

 

--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Bob George <soxpats413@...> wrote:

From: Bob George <soxpats413@...>
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] The Worst Single Game Coaching Job In The History of The Patriots!
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 12:59 AM

 

While I would have punted, it was obvious that the Patriot defense was gassed.  Be it 30 yards or 70 or 80 yards, the Colts probably still score with less than 20 seconds left.  But I would have at least given the defense a fighting chance.
 
Bob G


 
On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 8:59 PM, George <patswingr@gmail. com> wrote:
 

Absolutely the worst coaching job that Bill Belichick has EVER done, anywhere, anytime. HOW THE F*** CAN YOU NOT PUNT THE BALL IN THAT SITUATION?!
 
Not to mention the inability to stop the Colts on the TWO previous drives, when they scored TWO TDs over a period of 3 MINUTES AND 54 SECONDS!!
 
It's been a very long time since I have said that I am ashamed of my team. But, right now, I am thoroughly ashamed of the Patriots! And I am absolutely LIVID at Bill Belichick!

George

 



#16206 From: Bob George <soxpats413@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:59 am
Subject: Re: The Worst Single Game Coaching Job In The History of The Patriots!
soxpats413@...
Send Email Send Email
 
While I would have punted, it was obvious that the Patriot defense was gassed.  Be it 30 yards or 70 or 80 yards, the Colts probably still score with less than 20 seconds left.  But I would have at least given the defense a fighting chance.
 
Bob G


 
On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 8:59 PM, George <patswingr@...> wrote:
 

Absolutely the worst coaching job that Bill Belichick has EVER done, anywhere, anytime. HOW THE F*** CAN YOU NOT PUNT THE BALL IN THAT SITUATION?!
 
Not to mention the inability to stop the Colts on the TWO previous drives, when they scored TWO TDs over a period of 3 MINUTES AND 54 SECONDS!!
 
It's been a very long time since I have said that I am ashamed of my team. But, right now, I am thoroughly ashamed of the Patriots! And I am absolutely LIVID at Bill Belichick!

George

 



#16205 From: "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:41 am
Subject: Re: The Worst Single Game Coaching Job In The History of The Patriots!
PatriotZip
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Send Email Send Email
 
It's late and I'm off to bed but I agreed with the fourth and 2 call then...and
now.

Go Pats!
Zip
----- Original Message -----
From: "George" <patswingr@...>
To: <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:59 PM
Subject: [patriotzip] The Worst Single Game Coaching Job In The History of The
Patriots!


> Absolutely the worst coaching job that Bill Belichick has EVER done,
> anywhere, anytime. HOW THE F*** CAN YOU NOT PUNT THE BALL IN THAT
> SITUATION?!
>
> Not to mention the inability to stop the Colts on the TWO previous drives,
> when they scored TWO TDs over a period of 3 MINUTES AND 54 SECONDS!!
>
> It's been a very long time since I have said that I am ashamed of my team.
> But, right now, I am thoroughly ashamed of the Patriots! And I am absolutely
> LIVID at Bill Belichick!
> George
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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19:50:00

#16204 From: "George" <patswingr@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:59 am
Subject: The Worst Single Game Coaching Job In The History of The Patriots!
patswingr
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Send Email Send Email
 
Absolutely the worst coaching job that Bill Belichick has EVER done, anywhere, anytime. HOW THE F*** CAN YOU NOT PUNT THE BALL IN THAT SITUATION?!
 
Not to mention the inability to stop the Colts on the TWO previous drives, when they scored TWO TDs over a period of 3 MINUTES AND 54 SECONDS!!
 
It's been a very long time since I have said that I am ashamed of my team. But, right now, I am thoroughly ashamed of the Patriots! And I am absolutely LIVID at Bill Belichick!

George

 

#16203 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:57 am
Subject: Re: Arrogance cost us the game
Rich_Carr
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packy001@... (Mark Morse) writes:

> I don't know why there wasn't a review by the officials upstairs on
> the spot of the ball. Faulk didn't bobble the ball as the official
> behind him called it. Thats why he made the placement behind the
> 1st down mark.

Because the ball was snapped before the 2 minute warning, only
the Pats or Colts could challenge it.  But because NE was out of
timeouts due to their incredibly stupid use of timeouts, they
were not allowed to challenege it.  Booth review only happens
for plays that begin with 2:00 on the clock or less.

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#16202 From: Mark Morse <packy001@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:49 am
Subject: Arrogance cost us the game
packy001
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Ultimately, BB will be criticized for the call to go fo it on 4th down. 
However, the Patriots prevent defense, prevented them from winning this game. 
The conservative play calling in the second half didn't help and Maromey's
fumble was huge.

I don't know why there wasn't a review by the officials upstairs on the spot of
the ball.  Faulk didn't bobble the ball as the official behind him called it. 
Thats why he made the placement behind the 1st down mark. 

 <font face="comic sans ms" color="#438059" size="5">Mark </font>

#16201 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:48 am
Subject: WTF?!
Rich_Carr
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How can you not punt there?  Do you distrust your D that badly?
Not to mention the absolutely terrible clock and timeout management
that left you unable to challenge the call.  Big-time F for BB in
this one.

(Of course, if Faulk had caught in cleanly it would have been
a first down.  By juggling it a bit he didn't have possession
until he was driven back behind the sticks.)

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#16200 From: David Price <castsashadow@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:44 am
Subject: Nice call, coach
castsashadow
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WTF????  How do you not punt in that situation?  I don't know what else to say.


Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star.

#16199 From: kmacalp@...
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:58 am
Subject: Re: Some of the walking wounded return to practice
kmacalp
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The Patriots also placed rookie WR Brandon Tate (knee) on season-ending injured reserve and signed former Cowboys WR Isaiah Stanback from the practice squad."
 
<Scott> NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Oh well, I guess someone needs to keep Shawn Crable company.
 
Scott

#16198 From: "Machado.Nicholas" <machado.nicholas@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:46 am
Subject: Re: Re: Some of the walking wounded return to practice
machado.nicholas@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Good Sammy is getting close.

Too bad about Tate. Is that the same knee that he tore up in college?

Harry


At 04:22 AM 11/15/2009 +0000, you wrote:
 

The latest from NFL.com...

"The Patriots declared RB Sammy Morris out of Sunday night's game against the Colts after originally listing him as questionable with a knee injury.

The Patriots also placed rookie WR Brandon Tate (knee) on season-ending injured reserve and signed former Cowboys WR Isaiah Stanback from the practice squad."

fdb

--- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...> wrote:
>
> RB Sammy Morris, LT Matt Light, WR Julian Edelman, S Brandon Meriweather,
> ST Eric Alexander, and C Dan Koppen all practiced today.
>
> But will they play?
>
> --
> Rich Carreiro rlcarr@...
>




#16197 From: "frankdanabrewster" <frank.dana@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:22 am
Subject: Re: Some of the walking wounded return to practice
frankdanabre...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
The latest from NFL.com...

"The Patriots declared RB Sammy Morris out of Sunday night's game against the
Colts after originally listing him as questionable with a knee injury.

The Patriots also placed rookie WR Brandon Tate (knee) on season-ending injured
reserve and signed former Cowboys WR Isaiah Stanback from the practice squad."

fdb


--- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...> wrote:
>
> RB Sammy Morris, LT Matt Light, WR Julian Edelman, S Brandon Meriweather,
> ST Eric Alexander, and C Dan Koppen all practiced today.
>
> But will they play?
>
> --
> Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...
>

#16196 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:32 pm
Subject: Some of the walking wounded return to practice
Rich_Carr
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
RB Sammy Morris, LT Matt Light, WR Julian Edelman, S Brandon Meriweather,
ST Eric Alexander, and C Dan Koppen all practiced today.

But will they play?

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#16195 From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:46 pm
Subject: Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then
Rich_Carr
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Send Email Send Email
 
Wrong Borges actually has a decent Brady interview today:

http://bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1211592&forma\
t=text

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#16194 From: kmacalp@...
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:30 am
Subject: Re: Wildcat White
kmacalp
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<Randy> Great information to hear the Pats coverred Henne as a receiver, I wonder how they decided who would draw that
assignment on each play and sure hope they weren't putting the top cover on him each time. I hadn't heard anyone break
down that detail.
 
<Scott> I watched on TV so I was limited to what the camera showed. On the wildcat play where I noticed Henne being covered, the cover guy was Patrick Chung. Chung was right up in Henne's face, but I didn't see if Chung got a good jam on him or not.
 
Scott Sheaffer  

#16193 From: Ed Bryant <edbryant36@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:57 pm
Subject: Re: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Dolphins)
edbryant36
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A couple of years ago, Tony Dungy screwed around this clock management tool in back to back games.  He got burned when Adam Vinatieri missed from 29 a field goal attempt that would have been good from 24.  So they lost to the Chargers and have since made it a habit.  But if you can bleed the clock, do it.  The Rams left the ball on about the 4 after running out the final eight minutes of the 11 18 2001 game in Foxboro.  Just left it there.  They led by 7, but NE never got a chance to respond one last time.  Well, never on that day!!!!!

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, kmacalp@... <kmacalp@...> wrote:

From: kmacalp@... <kmacalp@...>
Subject: [patriotzip] Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Dolphins)
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:25 AM

 
- Late in the game, why did we even consider going for it on 4th down. The
gimme FG from 35 yards out makes it a 2 score game. Don't even fool around
with it and take the points. Instead we line up to go for it and take a
false start penalty. It moved us back 5 yards and made it a more difficult
kick. Any other penalty at that point and we are looking at a really tough
FG. If BB was even considering going for it, I say that was dumb.
<George's Response> *** Again, I didn't, and still don't, understand it. With only 1:12
remaining, and the Dolphins lacking a deep passing game, and a very reliable
FG kicker ready, just kick the damn thing! A 10-point lead all but puts it
in the bank against this team ...or any team, for that matter.
 
<Scott> A first down ends the game. Dolphins never touch the ball again.
 
A made field goal still allows the very remote possibility that the Dolphins score and get the onside kick.
 
A missed field goal could be slightly worse than failing to pick up the first down. (Dolphins would have gotten the ball at the spot of the kick.)
 
A blocked field goal returned for a touchdown ties the game.
 
Either decision, go for it or kick it, has its pros and cons. I don't think either decision is bad. Bad results would bring criticism to either choice. Once the penalty moved the Patriots back, it became more difficult to get a first down and the field goal became the clearer choice.
 
Scott Sheaffer

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