Messages In This Digest (21 Messages)

It seems a bit like you took my part of the defense as a defense of Pete Carroll. He steadily lost his teams and had a sad but deserved end to his coaching career. I defended the 1997 team which lost a Divisional playoff game by one point allowing only a single touchdown on defense. That's not a collapse that is solid defensive football.

Parcells Jets and the Dolphins were highly competitive opponents in those days and we were a top team in a top division with only Indy as a sub-par team.

I think the true collapse came when Bledsoe was exposed for having too great a weakness and the Curtis Martin dependency was too great as well. Martin allowed the team to escape with bledsoe's mobility weakness and the offensive over-emphasis on the pass. When Martin was hurt and then lost to t he Jets the team had no effective answer to keep pressure off Bledsoe and end the once seeming dynamic offense. Meanwhile Coates past his prime and the draft of Bobby Grier's regime speaks volumes. Bellichick took that same team he got in 2000 from Bellichick and got worse as well with a 5-11 record which brought us Seymour and a renewed team the following season. He really cleaned house though as our talent base had been entirely eroded through the late 90s.

Go Pats!

Zip

Reply | Messages in this Topic (18)

#15929

From: kmacalp@...
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 9:36 am
Subject: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

kmacalp

Aamir,

Even though it's only been 3 games so far, I think it's possible that the Ravens might be the best team in the NFL. They have the second best offense in both and yards and points. Plus it's a balanced ofense like Atlanta's is. They're good both at running and passing so opponents can't just concentrate on taking one or the other away.

Their defense is 7th, one spot behind the Patriots' defense which slipped to 6th last week even though they actually improved their yards per game average. They're allowing one more point per game than the Pats. (That average also includes points given up by the offense and special teams as well as the defense.) With their defensive track record and talent, it's possible that their defense could get even better as the season goes on.

So, yes, the Ravens will be a very strong opponent.

Sincerely,

Scott

#15930

From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 1:56 pm
Subject: Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

majeedaamir...

This is what I was afraid of. But you make good points that we are closely matched so anything can happen. I am watching the game with my 7 year old son and his boy friends from school will join us. Many of them have Patriot shirts with the names of their favorite players on the back.

From: "kmacalp@..." <kmacalp@...>
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 9:36:28 AM
Subject: [patriotzip] Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Aamir,

So, yes, the Ravens will be a very strong opponent.

Sincerely,

Scott

#15931

From: kmacalp@...
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 10:23 am
Subject: Re: 1997 Defended

kmacalp

Hi Randy,

I'm not looking at a single loss, and saying that the single loss constitutes a collapse all by itself. I'm looking at a 4-0 start, followed by a 7-7 record the rest of the way. (6-6 in the regular season. 1-1 in the playoffs.) I'm looking at 14 games of mediocre football. That's the collapse, 4-0 (5-1 even) with easy, blowout wins, followed by .500 football.

That's my point. I'm not saying the 97 team had no talent. They were loaded with talent. I'm not saying it didn't have good people. Some of my favorite players were on that team. My point is to say that Carroll and Ryan employ similar coaching styles (not press conference styles), and I think Carroll's approach had something to do with the late collapse pattern seen in all 4 seasons he was an NFL head coach.

Yes, bad drafts and horrible cap management played a role so that the team was hamstrung on making quick improvements when Belichick came in. Belichick didn't just inherit a team in cap trouble and a few bad drafts though. I can't remember if I read it in Patriot Reign or The Blue Print, but when he came back, he inherited a team where half the players couldn't finish something which was a routine conditioning drill for Parcells's Jets, Pats, and Giants teams. Guys were off to the side vomiting, unable to finish the drill. Players had gotten used to lax rules and no discipline and some were beyond salvage in this area. So, Belichick had to tear down and clear out dead wood. It was a case of getting worse short term to get better long term. (Something Cleveland ownership, media, and fans fiercely resisted when Belichick attempted it there because they thought the aging players who'd just missed the Super Bowl a few times were still "just around the corner" from getting there.) The classic example is Jimmie Johnson's Dallas Cowboys. Johnson came in and cleaned house, got rid of big name players. The team went 1-15 his first year, but he set the foundation for 3 Super Bowl Championships.

I was heartbroken when that '97 team lost 7-6 too. I was aggravated by that long Kordell Stewart run which I recall as the key play of the game. But looking back at the big picture, I see it fits a pattern.

Sincerely,

Scott Sheaffer

Reply | Messages in this Topic (18)

#15932

From: Diane Ghelfi <purrralicious69@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 3:20 pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2484

purrralicious69

Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web

Enuff of this chit!!!

From: "patriotzip@yahoogroups.com" <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 8:19:35 AM
Subject: [patriotzip] Digest Number 2484

Messages In This Digest (21 Messages)

1a.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium From: Mike Benson
1b.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium From: David Brunat
1c.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium From: Aamir Majeed
1d.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium From: Don Diamant
1e.: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium From: kmacalp@...
1f.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium From: Aamir Majeed
1g.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium From: Monty Rodrigues
1h.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium From: Aamir Majeed

2a.: Re: 1976 Patriots From: George
2b.: Re: 1976 Patriots From: Aamir Majeed
2c.: Re: 1976 Patriots From: John Boehner
2d.: Re: 1976 Patriots From: John Boehner
2e.: Re: 1976 Patriots From: Don Diamant

3a.: Re: 1997 Defended From: kmacalp@...
3b.: Re: 1997 Defended From: RandyZ. Pierce

4a.: My Trip to the Atlanta Game... From: dres74
4b.: Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game... From: Aamir Majeed

5a.: About these Ravens From: Mark Morse
5b.: Re: About these Ravens From: Aamir Majeed
5c.: Re: About these Ravens From: Mark Morse
5d.: Re: About these Ravens From: Aamir Majeed

View All Topics | Create New Topic

Messages

1a.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Posted by: "Mike Benson" mbenson321@... mbenson321

Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:41 am (PDT)

I believe you, Aamir. I can't imagine what making up such a story would accomplish. And I apologize for the fan who harassed you that day. You enthusiam for learning everything you can about the game of football has brought instant karma to this list:)

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:43:43 PM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

I feel I must humbly reply to Randy's post to defend myself because the incident I recently described is very true. I think that Randy contacted me originally with very good intentions to find out my row and seat numbers so that this matter could be investigated. However, I told Randy why I do not want an investigation. It is because I fear for
my family if this were to get into the newspapers or on the TV. I fear for
my employer who grabbed the big fat man by the throat and could get in
trouble himself and I now fear for my job because of this. I did
not report to this group anything false. I do not to wish to give Randy
any personal information because he seems determined to investigate
this and put the things I cherish at risk. I have done nothing wrong here and have spoken nothing but the
truth. I do not enjoy these accusations. But I want Randy and this group to know that I enjoy listening and contributing. I have learned much about the game from the time I spend here and I hope to continue in the future. Many thanks to all of you who have offered your sympathies, but I will not let one bigoted man ruin my enthusiasm for the Patriots.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:56:36 PM
Subject: [patriotzip] More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Several years ago news reports told of a
Grandmother who was attending the Pats vs. Dolphins game to cheer on her
Dolphins when a group of Patriot fan houligans beat her up and, if I recall
correctly, threw her into a trash bin. The report got a reasonable amount
of attention and everyone was appropriately shocked and disgusted that such
behaviour could take place. The stadium did some research and were able to
determine a bit of truth n this fraudulent report. That fan had stumbled
drunkenly to a staircase and fallen down those stairs - on video. When the
new information was presented it made less news but the charges were quickly
retracted.

Racism, bigotry, violence and many other forms of
less ugly behavior can and do happen at various times and places around the
world. Sadly they happen at football stadiums and probably have taken
place even at Gilette in the past. The team and other fans have gone a
long way towards vastly improving the atmosphere which doesn't make it immune to
these acts but generally have taken solid preventitive actions and
appropriate reactions to such when it occurs. Fraudulent claims of such are a
gross detriment to those efforts and a significant slight to the organization
and fans.

I cannot tell you factually that Aamir's claim
is false but only that the facts add up with enough question to me that I
highly doubt it. My point here is to not assume or presume the story is
factual just for the telling. I have spoken to Aamir off list and
could not resolve my doubts and concerns. Obviously, I hope it's obvious, I have
no tolerance or appreciation for bigotry, cruelty and other inappropriate
actions or inactions which are suggested in the tale. It is by that same approach I chose to take action
and share that the injustice may be different than what is claimed.

I am not seeking a lobby of opinion on the matter
and would prefer that as few if any comments or replies be made to this
topic. If you have something you feel needs be said then do so but I'd
rather not start a poll of opinion on whether it did or did not happen. I
would absolutely not wish to have any personal bashing of anyone in regards to
this topic. Please consider all replies carefully as I assure you I have
attempted in my private emails with Aamir and in this public post. Aamir
is still present on the list and my only request has been to minimize commentary
on things not related to football and to be prepared to substantiate any
allegations of impropriety on non-football issues.

Thank yu for your understanding and respect to this
sensitive topic,
Randy
(and as always - Go
Pats!)

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Messages in this topic (11)
1b.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Posted by: "David Brunat" brewgnat@... BrewGnat

Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:04 am (PDT)

I am with you on this. Something about this guy didn't sound right when he first came on the list. The story resonates bullshit. I can't imagine someone not getting hold of security or security not seeing any of this happen. Not sure what this guys agenda is but his intentions are very suspect in my opinion.

Dave Brunat

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
Subject: [patriotzip] More On incidents at Gilette Stadium
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 4:56 PM

Several years ago news reports told of a Grandmother who was attending the Pats vs. Dolphins game to cheer on her Dolphins when a group of Patriot fan houligans beat her up and, if I recall correctly, threw her into a trash bin. The report got a reasonable amount of attention and everyone was appropriately shocked and disgusted that such behaviour could take place. The stadium did some research and were able to determine a bit of truth n this fraudulent report. That fan had stumbled drunkenly to a staircase and fallen down those stairs - on video. When the new information was presented it made less news but the charges were quickly retracted.

Racism, bigotry, violence and many other forms of less ugly behavior can and do happen at various times and places around the world. Sadly they happen at football stadiums and probably have taken place even at Gilette in the past. The team and other fans have gone a long way towards vastly improving the atmosphere which doesn't make it immune to these acts but generally have taken solid preventitive actions and appropriate reactions to such when it occurs. Fraudulent claims of such are a gross detriment to those efforts and a significant slight to the organization and fans.

I cannot tell you factually that Aamir's claim is false but only that the facts add up with enough question to me that I highly doubt it. My point here is to not assume or presume the story is factual just for the telling. I have spoken to Aamir off list and could not resolve my doubts and concerns. Obviously, I hope it's obvious, I have no tolerance or appreciation for bigotry, cruelty and other inappropriate actions or inactions which are suggested in the tale. It is by that same approach I chose to take action and share that the injustice may be different than what is claimed.

I am not seeking a lobby of opinion on the matter and would prefer that as few if any comments or replies be made to this topic. If you have something you feel needs be said then do so but I'd rather not start a poll of opinion on whether it did or did not happen. I would absolutely not wish to have any personal bashing of anyone in regards to this topic. Please consider all replies carefully as I assure you I have attempted in my private emails with Aamir and in this public post. Aamir is still present on the list and my only request has been to minimize commentary on things not related to football and to be prepared to substantiate any allegations of impropriety on non-football issues.

Thank yu for your understanding and respect to this sensitive topic,
Randy
(and as always - Go Pats!)

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Messages in this topic (11)
1c.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Posted by: "Aamir Majeed" majeedaamir@... majeedaamir@...

Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:11 am (PDT)

Mr. Brunat,

I am sorry I am not sounding right to you. But please believe me when I tell you my story is not "bullshit" as you say. I told Randy why I do not want an investigation. It is because I fear for
my family if this were to get into the newspapers or on the TV. I fear for
my employer who grabbed the big fat man by the throat and could get in
trouble himself now and I fear for my job because of this. I did
not report to this group anything false. I do not to wish to give Randy
any personal information because he seems determined to investigate
this and put the things I cherish at risk. I assure you I have no agenda other than learning as much as I can about the game of football and supporting the Patriots.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: David Brunat <brewgnat@yahoo. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:04:41 AM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

I am with you on this. Something about this guy didn't sound right when he first came on the list. The story resonates bullshit. I can't imagine someone not getting hold of security or security not seeing any of this happen. Not sure what this guys agenda is but his intentions are very suspect in my opinion.

Dave Brunat

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

>From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
>Subject: [patriotzip] More On incidents at Gilette Stadium
>To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
>Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 4:56 PM
>
>
>
>Several years ago news reports told of a Grandmother who was attending the Pats vs. Dolphins game to cheer on her Dolphins when a group of Patriot fan houligans beat her up and, if I recall correctly, threw her into a trash bin. The report got a reasonable amount of attention and everyone was appropriately shocked and disgusted that such behaviour could take place. The stadium did some research and were able to determine a bit of truth n this fraudulent report. That fan had stumbled drunkenly to a staircase and fallen down those stairs - on video. When the new information was presented it made less news but the charges were quickly retracted.
>
>Racism, bigotry, violence and many other forms of less ugly behavior can and do happen at various times and places around the world. Sadly they happen at football stadiums and probably have taken place even at Gilette in the past. The team and other fans have gone a long way towards vastly improving the atmosphere which doesn't make it immune to these acts but generally have taken solid preventitive actions and appropriate reactions to such when it occurs. Fraudulent claims of such are a gross detriment to those efforts and a significant slight to the organization and fans.
>
>I cannot tell you factually that Aamir's claim is false but only that the facts add up with enough question to me that I highly doubt it. My point here is to not assume or presume the story is factual just for the telling. I have spoken to Aamir off list and could not resolve my doubts and concerns. Obviously, I hope it's obvious, I have no tolerance or appreciation for bigotry, cruelty and other inappropriate actions or inactions which are suggested in the tale. It is by that same approach I chose to take action and share that the injustice may be different than what is claimed.
>
>I am not seeking a lobby of opinion on the matter and would prefer that as few if any comments or replies be made to this topic. If you have something you feel needs be said then do so but I'd rather not start a poll of opinion on whether it did or did not happen. I would absolutely not wish to have any personal bashing of anyone in regards to this topic. Please consider all replies carefully as I assure you I have attempted in my private emails with Aamir and in this public post. Aamir is still present on the list and my only request has been to minimize commentary on things not related to football and to be prepared to substantiate any allegations of impropriety on non-football issues.
>
>Thank yu for your understanding and respect to this sensitive topic,
>Randy
>(and as always - Go Pats!)

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Messages in this topic (11)
1d.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Posted by: "Don Diamant" jeepndd@... jeepndd

Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:10 am (PDT)

Thank you Aamir, you don't need to defend yourself further. This is a
non-subject at this time.

I would like to add a friendly reminder that this subject should not be
continued on this list. If you feel strongly enough to continue this thread
of discussion please do so off list.

Don

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Messages in this topic (11)
1e.: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Posted by: "kmacalp@..." kmacalp@... kmacalp

Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:06 am (PDT)

I support Aamir on this one. I urge him to go to security next time, but
his reasons for not doing so on this occasion make sense. I won't debate
this on list because I respect Randy's request. Nonetheless, after seeing
public doubt, I felt it was only fair to offer my public support.

Sincerely,
Scott Sheaffer

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Messages in this topic (11)
1f.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Posted by: "Aamir Majeed" majeedaamir@... majeedaamir@...

Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:16 am (PDT)

Thank you, Scott. Randy gave me a phone number so that I can alert security if there is ever a problem again. How do you think the Patriots will do against these Ravens? They seem like a very tough team. I see that they have not lost a game so far. This troubles me. But I was troubled by these Falcons and we beat them by a good score.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: "kmacalp@aol. com" <kmacalp@aol. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:05:30 PM
Subject: [patriotzip] Re:More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

I support Aamir on this one. I urge him to go to security
next time, but his reasons for not doing so on this occasion make
sense. I won't debate this on list because I respect Randy's request.
Nonetheless, after seeing public doubt, I felt it was only fair to offer my
public support.

Sincerely,
Scott Sheaffer

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Messages in this topic (11)
1g.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Posted by: "Monty Rodrigues" patfan1@... patfan1

Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:18 am (PDT)

The Ravens defense is good, and seemingly has been for a long long time. The difference is that this year they actually have players on the offensive skill positions. Flacco's proving himself well, Rice can run, Heaps is one of the best tight ends in the league, and both Mason and Clayton are good receivers. This will not be an easy game. The Ravens have played two crap teams and one good one (the Chargers) who aren't playing well so far. So this'll be their first test of the year.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:16:19 PM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re:More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Thank you, Scott. Randy gave me a phone number so that I can alert security if there is ever a problem again. How do you think the Patriots will do against these Ravens? They seem like a very tough team. I see that they have not lost a game so far. This troubles me. But I was troubled by these Falcons and we beat them by a good score.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: "kmacalp@aol. com" <kmacalp@aol. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:05:30 PM
Subject: [patriotzip] Re:More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

I support Aamir on this one. I urge him to go to security next time, but his reasons for not doing so on this occasion make sense. I won't debate this on list because I respect Randy's request. Nonetheless, after seeing public doubt, I felt it was only fair to offer my public support.

Sincerely,
Scott Sheaffer

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Messages in this topic (11)
1h.: Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Posted by: "Aamir Majeed" majeedaamir@... majeedaamir@...

Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:27 am (PDT)

My employer tells me that this man Ray Lewis is a very brutal player and has spent time in jail.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Monty Rodrigues <patfan1@yahoo. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:18:51 PM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re:More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

The Ravens defense is good, and seemingly has been for a long long time. The difference is that this year they actually have players on the offensive skill positions. Flacco's proving himself well, Rice can run, Heaps is one of the best tight ends in the league, and both Mason and Clayton are good receivers. This will not be an easy game. The Ravens have played two crap teams and one good one (the Chargers) who aren't playing well so far. So this'll be their first test of the year.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:16:19 PM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re:More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Thank you, Scott. Randy gave me a phone number so that I can alert security if there is ever a problem again. How do you think the Patriots will do against these Ravens? They seem like a very tough team. I see that they have not lost a game so far. This troubles me. But I was troubled by these Falcons and we beat them by a good score.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: "kmacalp@aol. com" <kmacalp@aol. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:05:30 PM
Subject: [patriotzip] Re:More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

I support Aamir on this one. I urge him to go to security next time, but his reasons for not doing so on this occasion make sense. I won't debate this on list because I respect Randy's request. Nonetheless, after seeing public doubt, I felt it was only fair to offer my public support.

Sincerely,
Scott Sheaffer

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Messages in this topic (11)

2a.: Re: 1976 Patriots

Posted by: "George" patswingr@... patswingr

Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:29 am (PDT)

Many of you have heard this story before, but this seems like an occasion
that demands a re-telling.

Back in 1970, I was serving as an Infantry Officer in Vietnam. I was every
bit as dedicated to my Patriots then as I am today. I arrived in Vietnam in
March. As the Draft approached, my thoughts remained back in Massachusetts,
wondering who would be added to my team. I wrote a letter to founder and
owner, Billy Sullivan, asking if he could send me any details about the
team's activities, since news was both scarce and late where I was.

Well, Billy was more than a bit surprised that a person in my situation was
concerned about his football team. Much to my surprise, he wrote back
personally, and directed his staff to put me onto the media list for all
press releases and materials. I received those throughout my tour; as well
as continued personal correspondence with Billy. He promised to put me at
the head of the Season Ticket list when I returned.

Sadly, I wasn't able to take advantage of his offer; as I moved to
California very shortly after I returned from Vietnam. But our relationship
continued. For the next several seasons, every time the Patriots came out to
the West Coast to play (then LA, San Diego, Oakland, and San Francisco),
Billy provided tickets for me and my wife. When they played in cities other
than LA, he reserved a room for us in the team hotel, so that we could meet
with him, and mingle with players. (The tickets were free, but I did have to
pay for the rooms.) :-)

In the subject year of 1976, I was seated on the 30 yard line, about half
way up in the Oakland-Alameda Coliseum, directly over the notorious
"Roughing the Passer" call on Sugar Bear Hamilton, by Ben Dreith. It's a
memory that will live with me forever, as I saw what should have been our
first trip to the Super Bowl disappear, when Raiders' QB, Ken Stabler,
followed his Academy Award winning dive with the TD pass that sent them on
the way to the championship that should have been OURS!

That, to be sure, was a painful experience. But the overall memories of that
very special relationship with Billy Sullivan are among the best of my life.
They later included my first opportunity to attend a Super Bowl. Billy
provided me with tickets to the classic game in 1980, when the Steelers beat
the Rams 31-19, with immortal highlight catches by Lynn Swann and Donte
Stallworth. By the way, the face value of those Super Bowl tickets in 1980
was $35!!

I know that many people either remember, or have been told, many negative
things about Billy Sullivan. But I knew him as a guy who loved the game, and
loved the fans, with all his heart. His children, to be sure, were a bunch
of spoiled, arrogant a$$es. But Billy was as down to earth as they come.
Just an ordinary neighborhood Irishman, who never lost the personality that
goes with that background. We truly enjoyed his company every bit as much as
his hospitality. It should never be forgotten that, while he wasn't able to
bring us the championships we've had from Bob Kraft's management; it was
Billy Sullivan that gave us our team!

OK. That's my trip down memory lane. Probably the last time I'll bore some
of you with it. I hope those for whom it was new enjoyed it.

George

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Messages in this topic (6)
2b.: Re: 1976 Patriots

Posted by: "Aamir Majeed" majeedaamir@... majeedaamir@...

Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:51 am (PDT)

This is a truly amazing story, George. Mr. Sullivan sounds very, very generous. What special things he did for you! Is he still alive?

____________ _________ _________ __
From: George <patswingr@gmail. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:28:41 AM
Subject: [patriotzip] Re: 1976 Patriots

Many of you have heard this story before, but this seems like an occasion
that demands a re-telling.

Back in 1970, I was serving as an Infantry Officer in Vietnam. I was every
bit as dedicated to my Patriots then as I am today. I arrived in Vietnam in
March. As the Draft approached, my thoughts remained back in Massachusetts,
wondering who would be added to my team. I wrote a letter to founder and
owner, Billy Sullivan, asking if he could send me any details about the
team's activities, since news was both scarce and late where I was.

Well, Billy was more than a bit surprised that a person in my situation was
concerned about his football team. Much to my surprise, he wrote back
personally, and directed his staff to put me onto the media list for all
press releases and materials. I received those throughout my tour; as well
as continued personal correspondence with Billy. He promised to put me at
the head of the Season Ticket list when I returned.

Sadly, I wasn't able to take advantage of his offer; as I moved to
California very shortly after I returned from Vietnam. But our relationship
continued. For the next several seasons, every time the Patriots came out to
the West Coast to play (then LA, San Diego, Oakland, and San Francisco),
Billy provided tickets for me and my wife. When they played in cities other
than LA, he reserved a room for us in the team hotel, so that we could meet
with him, and mingle with players. (The tickets were free, but I did have to
pay for the rooms.) :-)

In the subject year of 1976, I was seated on the 30 yard line, about half
way up in the Oakland-Alameda Coliseum, directly over the notorious
"Roughing the Passer" call on Sugar Bear Hamilton, by Ben Dreith. It's a
memory that will live with me forever, as I saw what should have been our
first trip to the Super Bowl disappear, when Raiders' QB, Ken Stabler,
followed his Academy Award winning dive with the TD pass that sent them on
the way to the championship that should have been OURS!

That, to be sure, was a painful experience. But the overall memories of that
very special relationship with Billy Sullivan are among the best of my life.
They later included my first opportunity to attend a Super Bowl. Billy
provided me with tickets to the classic game in 1980, when the Steelers beat
the Rams 31-19, with immortal highlight catches by Lynn Swann and Donte
Stallworth. By the way, the face value of those Super Bowl tickets in 1980
was $35!!

I know that many people either remember, or have been told, many negative
things about Billy Sullivan. But I knew him as a guy who loved the game, and
loved the fans, with all his heart. His children, to be sure, were a bunch
of spoiled, arrogant a$$es. But Billy was as down to earth as they come.
Just an ordinary neighborhood Irishman, who never lost the personality that
goes with that background. We truly enjoyed his company every bit as much as
his hospitality. It should never be forgotten that, while he wasn't able to
bring us the championships we've had from Bob Kraft's management; it was
Billy Sullivan that gave us our team!

OK. That's my trip down memory lane. Probably the last time I'll bore some
of you with it. I hope those for whom it was new enjoyed it.

George

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Messages in this topic (6)
2c.: Re: 1976 Patriots

Posted by: "John Boehner" johnboehner@... johnboehner@...

Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:07 am (PDT)

Billy Sullivan was an amazing man, Aamir. He bought the Patriot franchise for $25,000 in 1959. If I remember correctly, he served in the Navy during World War II. Being a vet may have prompted him to be so generous to George. Then again, maybe he was just a really nice guy. I'd guess it was both.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:50:58 AM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: 1976 Patriots

This is a truly amazing story, George. Mr. Sullivan sounds very, very generous. What special things he did for you! Is he still alive?

____________ _________ _________ __
From: George <patswingr@gmail. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:28:41 AM
Subject: [patriotzip] Re: 1976 Patriots

Many of you have heard this story before, but this seems like an occasion
that demands a re-telling.

Back in 1970, I was serving as an Infantry Officer in Vietnam. I was every
bit as dedicated to my Patriots then as I am today. I arrived in Vietnam in
March. As the Draft approached, my thoughts remained back in Massachusetts,
wondering who would be added to my team. I wrote a letter to founder and
owner, Billy Sullivan, asking if he could send me any details about the
team's activities, since news was both scarce and late where I was.

Well, Billy was more than a bit surprised that a person in my situation was
concerned about his football team. Much to my surprise, he wrote back
personally, and directed his staff to put me onto the media list for all
press releases and materials. I received those throughout my tour; as well
as continued personal correspondence with Billy. He promised to put me at
the head of the Season Ticket list when I returned.

Sadly, I wasn't able to take advantage of his offer; as I moved to
California very shortly after I returned from Vietnam. But our relationship
continued. For the next several seasons, every time the Patriots came out to
the West Coast to play (then LA, San Diego, Oakland, and San Francisco),
Billy provided tickets for me and my wife. When they played in cities other
than LA, he reserved a room for us in the team hotel, so that we could meet
with him, and mingle with players. (The tickets were free, but I did have to
pay for the rooms.) :-)

In the subject year of 1976, I was seated on the 30 yard line, about half
way up in the Oakland-Alameda Coliseum, directly over the notorious
"Roughing the Passer" call on Sugar Bear Hamilton, by Ben Dreith. It's a
memory that will live with me forever, as I saw what should have been our
first trip to the Super Bowl disappear, when Raiders' QB, Ken Stabler,
followed his Academy Award winning dive with the TD pass that sent them on
the way to the championship that should have been OURS!

That, to be sure, was a painful experience. But the overall memories of that
very special relationship with Billy Sullivan are among the best of my life.
They later included my first opportunity to attend a Super Bowl. Billy
provided me with tickets to the classic game in 1980, when the Steelers beat
the Rams 31-19, with immortal highlight catches by Lynn Swann and Donte
Stallworth. By the way, the face value of those Super Bowl tickets in 1980
was $35!!

I know that many people either remember, or have been told, many negative
things about Billy Sullivan. But I knew him as a guy who loved the game, and
loved the fans, with all his heart. His children, to be sure, were a bunch
of spoiled, arrogant a$$es. But Billy was as down to earth as they come.
Just an ordinary neighborhood Irishman, who never lost the personality that
goes with that background. We truly enjoyed his company every bit as much as
his hospitality. It should never be forgotten that, while he wasn't able to
bring us the championships we've had from Bob Kraft's management; it was
Billy Sullivan that gave us our team!

OK. That's my trip down memory lane. Probably the last time I'll bore some
of you with it. I hope those for whom it was new enjoyed it.

George

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Messages in this topic (6)
2d.: Re: 1976 Patriots

Posted by: "John Boehner" johnboehner@... johnboehner@...

Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:11 am (PDT)

Aamir - Billy Sullivan passed away in 1998 of prostate cancer.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:50:58 AM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: 1976 Patriots

This is a truly amazing story, George. Mr. Sullivan sounds very, very generous. What special things he did for you! Is he still alive?

____________ _________ _________ __
From: George <patswingr@gmail. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:28:41 AM
Subject: [patriotzip] Re: 1976 Patriots

Many of you have heard this story before, but this seems like an occasion
that demands a re-telling.

Back in 1970, I was serving as an Infantry Officer in Vietnam. I was every
bit as dedicated to my Patriots then as I am today. I arrived in Vietnam in
March. As the Draft approached, my thoughts remained back in Massachusetts,
wondering who would be added to my team. I wrote a letter to founder and
owner, Billy Sullivan, asking if he could send me any details about the
team's activities, since news was both scarce and late where I was.

Well, Billy was more than a bit surprised that a person in my situation was
concerned about his football team. Much to my surprise, he wrote back
personally, and directed his staff to put me onto the media list for all
press releases and materials. I received those throughout my tour; as well
as continued personal correspondence with Billy. He promised to put me at
the head of the Season Ticket list when I returned.

Sadly, I wasn't able to take advantage of his offer; as I moved to
California very shortly after I returned from Vietnam. But our relationship
continued. For the next several seasons, every time the Patriots came out to
the West Coast to play (then LA, San Diego, Oakland, and San Francisco),
Billy provided tickets for me and my wife. When they played in cities other
than LA, he reserved a room for us in the team hotel, so that we could meet
with him, and mingle with players. (The tickets were free, but I did have to
pay for the rooms.) :-)

In the subject year of 1976, I was seated on the 30 yard line, about half
way up in the Oakland-Alameda Coliseum, directly over the notorious
"Roughing the Passer" call on Sugar Bear Hamilton, by Ben Dreith. It's a
memory that will live with me forever, as I saw what should have been our
first trip to the Super Bowl disappear, when Raiders' QB, Ken Stabler,
followed his Academy Award winning dive with the TD pass that sent them on
the way to the championship that should have been OURS!

That, to be sure, was a painful experience. But the overall memories of that
very special relationship with Billy Sullivan are among the best of my life.
They later included my first opportunity to attend a Super Bowl. Billy
provided me with tickets to the classic game in 1980, when the Steelers beat
the Rams 31-19, with immortal highlight catches by Lynn Swann and Donte
Stallworth. By the way, the face value of those Super Bowl tickets in 1980
was $35!!

I know that many people either remember, or have been told, many negative
things about Billy Sullivan. But I knew him as a guy who loved the game, and
loved the fans, with all his heart. His children, to be sure, were a bunch
of spoiled, arrogant a$$es. But Billy was as down to earth as they come.
Just an ordinary neighborhood Irishman, who never lost the personality that
goes with that background. We truly enjoyed his company every bit as much as
his hospitality. It should never be forgotten that, while he wasn't able to
bring us the championships we've had from Bob Kraft's management; it was
Billy Sullivan that gave us our team!

OK. That's my trip down memory lane. Probably the last time I'll bore some
of you with it. I hope those for whom it was new enjoyed it.

George

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Messages in this topic (6)
2e.: Re: 1976 Patriots

Posted by: "Don Diamant" jeepndd@... jeepndd

Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:28 am (PDT)

That is a great story George! It gives us a look at the Billy Sullivan that
many of us never knew of.

I would also like to thank you for your service to our country, thank you
George.

Don

_____

From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:29 AM
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: [patriotzip] Re: 1976 Patriots

Many of you have heard this story before, but this seems like an occasion
that demands a re-telling.

Back in 1970, I was serving as an Infantry Officer in Vietnam. I was every
bit as dedicated to my Patriots then as I am today. I arrived in Vietnam in
March. As the Draft approached, my thoughts remained back in Massachusetts,
wondering who would be added to my team. I wrote a letter to founder and
owner, Billy Sullivan, asking if he could send me any details about the
team's activities, since news was both scarce and late where I was.

Well, Billy was more than a bit surprised that a person in my situation was
concerned about his football team. Much to my surprise, he wrote back
personally, and directed his staff to put me onto the media list for all
press releases and materials. I received those throughout my tour; as well
as continued personal correspondence with Billy. He promised to put me at
the head of the Season Ticket list when I returned.

Sadly, I wasn't able to take advantage of his offer; as I moved to
California very shortly after I returned from Vietnam. But our relationship
continued. For the next several seasons, every time the Patriots came out to
the West Coast to play (then LA, San Diego, Oakland, and San Francisco),
Billy provided tickets for me and my wife. When they played in cities other
than LA, he reserved a room for us in the team hotel, so that we could meet
with him, and mingle with players. (The tickets were free, but I did have to
pay for the rooms.) :-)

In the subject year of 1976, I was seated on the 30 yard line, about half
way up in the Oakland-Alameda Coliseum, directly over the notorious
"Roughing the Passer" call on Sugar Bear Hamilton, by Ben Dreith. It's a
memory that will live with me forever, as I saw what should have been our
first trip to the Super Bowl disappear, when Raiders' QB, Ken Stabler,
followed his Academy Award winning dive with the TD pass that sent them on
the way to the championship that should have been OURS!

That, to be sure, was a painful experience. But the overall memories of that
very special relationship with Billy Sullivan are among the best of my life.
They later included my first opportunity to attend a Super Bowl. Billy
provided me with tickets to the classic game in 1980, when the Steelers beat
the Rams 31-19, with immortal highlight catches by Lynn Swann and Donte
Stallworth. By the way, the face value of those Super Bowl tickets in 1980
was $35!!

I know that many people either remember, or have been told, many negative
things about Billy Sullivan. But I knew him as a guy who loved the game, and
loved the fans, with all his heart. His children, to be sure, were a bunch
of spoiled, arrogant a$$es. But Billy was as down to earth as they come.
Just an ordinary neighborhood Irishman, who never lost the personality that
goes with that background. We truly enjoyed his company every bit as much as
his hospitality. It should never be forgotten that, while he wasn't able to
bring us the championships we've had from Bob Kraft's management; it was
Billy Sullivan that gave us our team!

OK. That's my trip down memory lane. Probably the last time I'll bore some
of you with it. I hope those for whom it was new enjoyed it.

George

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Messages in this topic (6)

3a.: Re: 1997 Defended

Posted by: "kmacalp@..." kmacalp@... kmacalp

Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:39 am (PDT)

Were we talking about one season, I might be buying guys. But Carroll's
Patriot teams collapsed three years in a row. Throw in his 1994 Jets who were
playing for a first place tie in Week 12, but ended up in last place on a 5
game losing streak, and you have four seasons, four collapses. All with
the same head coach. Every team has injuries and calls that go against them.
Last year's Pats sure had injuries, but they still managed a 4-0 finish,
and at 11-5 finished ahead of Carroll's best NFL team, the 10-6 '97 Pats.) I
think coaching style contributed, and Ryan's got a similar style. I can
see it happening now and then, but when you coach for four years, and it
happens to your team every year . . . Maybe Ryan's teams will end up
different, but I'll wait and see.

Sincerely,
Scott Sheaffer

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Messages in this topic (16)
3b.: Re: 1997 Defended

Posted by: "RandyZ. Pierce" alaric02@... PatriotZip

Thu Oct 1, 2009 4:27 am (PDT)

It seems a bit like you took my part of the defense as a defense of Pete Carroll. He steadily lost his teams and had a sad but deserved end to his coaching career. I defended the 1997 team which lost a Divisional playoff game by one point allowing only a single touchdown on defense. That's not a collapse that is solid defensive football.

Parcells Jets and the Dolphins were highly competitive opponents in those days and we were a top team in a top division with only Indy as a sub-par team.

I think the true collapse came when Bledsoe was exposed for having too great a weakness and the Curtis Martin dependency was too great as well. Martin allowed the team to escape with bledsoe's mobility weakness and the offensive over-emphasis on the pass. When Martin was hurt and then lost to t he Jets the team had no effective answer to keep pressure off Bledsoe and end the once seeming dynamic offense. Meanwhile Coates past his prime and the draft of Bobby Grier's regime speaks volumes. Bellichick took that same team he got in 2000 from Bellichick and got worse as well with a 5-11 record which brought us Seymour and a renewed team the following season. He really cleaned house though as our talent base had been entirely eroded through the late 90s.

Go Pats!
Zip

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Messages in this topic (16)

4a.: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

Posted by: "dres74" dres74@... dres74

Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:37 pm (PDT)

So I just wanted to share my trip with you all. About a month before the game my wife and I wanted to do something for our one year anniversary. Being the good husband that I am I suggested a trip to the stadium to watch a game. Honestly thinking that I would get some type of look that would burn a hole right into me! Much to my surprise my wife thought that this was a great idea.... we could spend the weekend up in that area (which would include a downtown trip to Boston for some shopping for her)

So with it said... time to plan. We decided to stay at Patriot Place in the hotel. Thinking that this would make our life a little easier on Sunday morning, eliminating the traffic into the stadium. I hit up Stubhub.com to find myself some tickets! This being my first time to a game (as I have lived all over the place and never seem to be able to get to New England) I wanted to get some nice tickets. Club box seats here I come!!!!

Tickets purchased, hotel booked, trip to Boston Saturday morning planned and dinner at Davio's at Patriot Place set!

I did not mind driving and the 5 to 6 hour drive from center city Philadelphia was not a bad trip. We got in Foxboro around 7pm Friday night. We checked into the hotel and got some room service as we planned to just relax and get some sleep. The hotel is great, clean, comfortable and the staff is more than happy to help you with anything you need. In fact they are overly nice! I have only been to one hotel in my life that has treated me better and that was on my honeymoon! It really is great to have a hotel like that right there at the stadium!

Saturday morning and off to Boston... have to make my wife happy. Spent much of the day there and headed back to the hotel to get cleaned up for dinner. Dinner at Davio's was great. If you have not had the pleasure, I highly recommend it. We have one here in Philly and it is just as good! Food is great, service is on par with what you would expect from a nice restaurant, just a great place to eat.

Sunday morning... FINALLY! I was excited... I really did not get much sleep! Threw on the jersey and went for breakfast! The weather was not the best, however, what did I care? I was there to see the game! Walking to the stadium I figured it would be a good idea to get myself a poncho and I was right. It just seemed to mist/rain off an on the entire game. But I was dry thanks to the poncho!

We walk to the stadium and seeing as though I was not familiar with it I was not sure where to go in order to get into the club box seats. Finally found were we where supposed to be and all I can say is WOW. What a great way to start out seeing the Patriots live! The club box is really nice, lots of food, beer, you name it. They had some of the old Patriots players there signing autographs and the cheerleaders came up around halftime. It was a fantastic way to be part of the game.

As for the game itself. What can I say, they won! We all know that by now. But what really got my interests was the fact that during the TV timeouts the team would be out on the field (mostly the defense) pumping the crowd up! That was great to see! My wife loved that they were dancing around and getting the crowd into the game!

All in all, it was a great time and I really plan on doing it again. Hopefully this year!!!!!

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Messages in this topic (2)
4b.: Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

Posted by: "Aamir Majeed" majeedaamir@... majeedaamir@...

Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:34 pm (PDT)

This is a truly wonderful story. I am happy you have finally taken a trip to New England! When I first came to this country, I was also in the Philadelphia area which I found to be very nice indeed.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: dres74 <dres74@yahoo. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 4:36:28 PM
Subject: [patriotzip] My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

So I just wanted to share my trip with you all. About a month before the game my wife and I wanted to do something for our one year anniversary. Being the good husband that I am I suggested a trip to the stadium to watch a game. Honestly thinking that I would get some type of look that would burn a hole right into me! Much to my surprise my wife thought that this was a great idea.... we could spend the weekend up in that area (which would include a downtown trip to Boston for some shopping for her)

So with it said... time to plan. We decided to stay at Patriot Place in the hotel. Thinking that this would make our life a little easier on Sunday morning, eliminating the traffic into the stadium. I hit up Stubhub.com to find myself some tickets! This being my first time to a game (as I have lived all over the place and never seem to be able to get to New England) I wanted to get some nice tickets. Club box seats here I come!!!!

Tickets purchased, hotel booked, trip to Boston Saturday morning planned and dinner at Davio's at Patriot Place set!

I did not mind driving and the 5 to 6 hour drive from center city Philadelphia was not a bad trip. We got in Foxboro around 7pm Friday night. We checked into the hotel and got some room service as we planned to just relax and get some sleep. The hotel is great, clean, comfortable and the staff is more than happy to help you with anything you need. In fact they are overly nice! I have only been to one hotel in my life that has treated me better and that was on my honeymoon! It really is great to have a hotel like that right there at the stadium!

Saturday morning and off to Boston... have to make my wife happy. Spent much of the day there and headed back to the hotel to get cleaned up for dinner. Dinner at Davio's was great. If you have not had the pleasure, I highly recommend it. We have one here in Philly and it is just as good! Food is great, service is on par with what you would expect from a nice restaurant, just a great place to eat.

Sunday morning... FINALLY! I was excited... I really did not get much sleep! Threw on the jersey and went for breakfast! The weather was not the best, however, what did I care? I was there to see the game! Walking to the stadium I figured it would be a good idea to get myself a poncho and I was right. It just seemed to mist/rain off an on the entire game. But I was dry thanks to the poncho!

We walk to the stadium and seeing as though I was not familiar with it I was not sure where to go in order to get into the club box seats. Finally found were we where supposed to be and all I can say is WOW. What a great way to start out seeing the Patriots live! The club box is really nice, lots of food, beer, you name it. They had some of the old Patriots players there signing autographs and the cheerleaders came up around halftime. It was a fantastic way to be part of the game.

As for the game itself. What can I say, they won! We all know that by now. But what really got my interests was the fact that during the TV timeouts the team would be out on the field (mostly the defense) pumping the crowd up! That was great to see! My wife loved that they were dancing around and getting the crowd into the game!

All in all, it was a great time and I really plan on doing it again. Hopefully this year!!!!!

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Messages in this topic (2)

5a.: About these Ravens

Posted by: "Mark Morse" packy001@... packy001

Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:26 pm (PDT)

I am feeling pretty good about playing the Ravens on Sunday. Oh I expect they will try and put pressure on Brady like they did two weeks ago, I mean the Jets did a couple weeks ago. The point is we have seen this.

Key is Welker ...

Like the O Line play and expect good things from Taylor.

Ravens haven't seen a Defense as good as ours (did I just say that?). They are way ahead of where I thought they would be without the veteran leadership and the loss of Mayo.

Mark

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5b.: Re: About these Ravens

Posted by: "Aamir Majeed" majeedaamir@... majeedaamir@...

Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:37 pm (PDT)

This is what troubles me, Mark. I am afraid that these Ravens could be as successful as these Jets were in being a very aggressive defense.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Mark Morse <packy001@yahoo. com>
To: Patriot List <patriots@bosco. net>; Zip List <patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:26:52 PM
Subject: [patriotzip] About these Ravens

I am feeling pretty good about playing the Ravens on Sunday. Oh I expect they will try and put pressure on Brady like they did two weeks ago, I mean the Jets did a couple weeks ago. The point is we have seen this.

Key is Welker ...

Like the O Line play and expect good things from Taylor.

Ravens haven't seen a Defense as good as ours (did I just say that?). They are way ahead of where I thought they would be without the veteran leadership and the loss of Mayo.

Mark

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Messages in this topic (4)
5c.: Re: About these Ravens

Posted by: "Mark Morse" packy001@... packy001

Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:00 pm (PDT)

Home Field Advantage ... don't have to use cue cards and wrist bands to signal in the plays. Baltimore does not have the CB's the Jets have. I guarantee you see a big play downfield by the Patriots this week.

Mark

--- On Wed, 9/30/09, Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com> wrote:

From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com>
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] About these Ravens
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 7:37 PM

This is what troubles me, Mark. I am afraid that these Ravens could be as successful as these Jets were in being a very aggressive defense.

From: Mark Morse <packy001@yahoo. com>
To: Patriot List <patriots@bosco. net>; Zip List <patriotzip@ yahoogro ups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:26:52 PM
Subject: [patriotzip] About these Ravens

I am feeling pretty good about playing the Ravens on Sunday. Oh I expect they will try and put pressure on Brady like they did two weeks ago, I mean the Jets did a couple weeks ago. The point is we have seen this.

Key is Welker ...

Like the O Line play and expect good things from Taylor.

Ravens haven't seen a Defense as good as ours (did I just say that?). They are way ahead of where I thought they would be without the veteran leadership and the loss of Mayo.

Mark

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Messages in this topic (4)
5d.: Re: About these Ravens

Posted by: "Aamir Majeed" majeedaamir@... majeedaamir@...

Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:51 pm (PDT)

Thank you, this is very reassuring.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Mark Morse <packy001@yahoo. com>
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:00:16 PM
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] About these Ravens

Home Field Advantage ... don't have to use cue cards and wrist bands to signal in the plays. Baltimore does not have the CB's the Jets have. I guarantee you see a big play downfield by the Patriots this week.

Mark

--- On Wed, 9/30/09, Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com> wrote:

>From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@ rocketmail. com>
>Subject: Re: [patriotzip] About these Ravens
>To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
>Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 7:37 PM
>
>
>
>This is what troubles me, Mark. I am afraid that these Ravens could be as successful as these Jets were in being a very aggressive defense.
>
>
>
>
____________ _________ _________ __
From: Mark Morse <packy001@yahoo. com>
>To: Patriot List <patriots@bosco. net>; Zip List <patriotzip@ yahoogro ups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:26:52 PM
>Subject: [patriotzip] About these Ravens
>
>
>I am feeling pretty good about playing the Ravens on Sunday. Oh I expect they will try and put pressure on Brady like they did two weeks ago, I mean the Jets did a couple weeks ago. The point is we have seen this.
>
>Key is Welker ...
>
>Like the O Line play and expect good things from Taylor.
>
>Ravens haven't seen a Defense as good as ours (did I just say that?). They are way ahead of where I thought they would be without the veteran leadership and the loss of Mayo.
>
>Mark
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (4)

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#15933

From: "the Shmoo" <ps2dad@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 4:56 pm
Subject: Re: 1997 Defended

ps2dad

Scott is quite correct in his assessment of these two coaches and their similar
coaching styles.  As for the analysis of the 97 team, numbers do not lie.  He
puts it out there in black & white.  It would seem his argument is infallable.

--- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, kmacalp@... wrote:
>
> Hi Randy,
>
> I'm not looking at a single loss, and saying that the single loss
> constitutes a collapse all by itself. I'm looking at a 4-0 start, followed by
a  7-7
> record the rest of the way. (6-6 in the regular season. 1-1 in the
> playoffs.) I'm looking at 14 games of mediocre football. That's the  collapse,
4-0
> (5-1 even) with easy, blowout wins, followed by .500  football.
>
> That's my point. I'm not saying the 97 team had no talent. They were loaded
>  with talent. I'm not saying it didn't have good people. Some of my
> favorite  players were on that team. My point is to say that Carroll and Ryan
> employ  similar coaching styles (not press conference styles), and I think
> Carroll's  approach had something to do with the late collapse pattern seen in
all
> 4  seasons he was an NFL head coach.
>
> Yes, bad drafts and horrible cap management played a role so that the team
> was hamstrung on making quick improvements when Belichick came in.
> Belichick  didn't just inherit a team in cap trouble and a few bad drafts
though. I
> can't  remember if I read it in Patriot Reign or The Blue Print,  but when
> he came back, he inherited a team where half the players couldn't  finish
> something which was a routine conditioning drill for Parcells's  Jets, Pats,
> and Giants teams. Guys were off to the side vomiting, unable to  finish the
> drill. Players had gotten used to lax rules and no discipline and  some were
> beyond salvage in this area. So, Belichick had to tear down  and clear out
> dead wood. It was a case of getting worse short term to  get better long term.
> (Something Cleveland ownership, media, and fans fiercely  resisted when
> Belichick attempted it there because they thought the aging  players who'd
just
> missed the Super Bowl a few times were still "just around the  corner" from
> getting there.) The classic example is Jimmie Johnson's Dallas  Cowboys.
> Johnson came in and cleaned house, got rid of big name players. The  team went
> 1-15 his first year, but he set the foundation for 3 Super Bowl
> Championships.
>
> I was heartbroken when that '97 team lost 7-6 too. I was aggravated by that
>  long Kordell Stewart run which I recall as the key play of the game. But
> looking  back at the big picture, I see it fits a pattern.
>
> Sincerely,
> Scott Sheaffer
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (18)

#15934

From: "George" <patswingr@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 5:04 pm
Subject: RE: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

patswingr

Scott, let's not put the Ravens into the same class as the recent offenses of the Patriots, Colts, and Saints just yet. They've played 3 teams with a combined record of 2-7. Those 3 teams rank 14th, 21st, and 30th in yards allowed; and 19th, 27th, and 32nd in points allowed.

The Ravens, meanwhile, rank 9th in points allowed, and 7th in yardage allowed, which is behind the Patriots in both categories.

The Patriots three opponents have a combined record of 6-3.

Comparing the top net points of their opponents (points for minus points against), the Ravens 3 opponents are a combined -94. The Patriots 3 opponents are a combined +27.

So, in terms of pure statistical comparison, the Patriots have faced significantly stronger competition.

But we all know that statistics never tell the whole story. When I look at the Ravens personnel, I see a 2nd year QB, who was just above average last year; a pair of RBs who've done nothing spectacular in recent years; and a pair of WRs who've been average, or just above average, at best, over the past couple of seasons. The records of the Patriots skill position players, over the last 3 years, has been much more impressive. Given their performance over the past 3 seasons, which would you rate stronger:

Brady, Fred Taylor, Kevin Faulk, Randy Moss, Wes Welker ... or ...

Flacco, Ray Rice, Willis McGahee, Derrick Mason, Mark Clayton?

I feel reasonably confident that the Patriots will win this game. I certainly don't expect a blow out. But I do believe that they are the better team, overall. The only thing that can stop them, IMO, is if Brady does not continue to improve on his timing and accuracy. He needs to play at least close to his previous level to keep our offense moving. If he does that, the Patriots will win.

George

From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kmacalp@...
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:36 PM
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [patriotzip] Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Aamir,

So, yes, the Ravens will be a very strong opponent.

Sincerely,

Scott

#15935

From: "drscherrey" <drscherrey@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 6:50 pm
Subject: NFL PICKS

drscherrey

NFL PICKS OF THE WEEK
http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/intelligencerreport/nfl.html

#15936

From: "Dave L" <usrtdsl@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 6:52 pm
Subject: Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

usrtdsl

This was indeed a fantastic way to spend an anniversary.  It sounds like you had
fun.  I envy you.

On a side note, was it just me or did everyone else who read this just wait for
something bad to happen.  I was waiting for "they lost our reservation" or "our
tickets were scalped".  I am so glad it was a happy story, not a sad one.

Dave



--- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "dres74" <dres74@...> wrote:
>
> So I just wanted to share my trip with you all.  About a month before the game
my wife and I wanted to do something for our one year anniversary.  Being the
good husband that I am I suggested a trip to the stadium to watch a game. 
Honestly thinking that I would get some type of look that would burn a hole
right into me!  Much to my surprise my wife thought that this was a great
idea.... we could spend the weekend up in that area (which would include a
downtown trip to Boston for some shopping for her)
>
> So with it said... time to plan.  We decided to stay at Patriot Place in the
hotel.  Thinking that this would make our life a little easier on Sunday
morning, eliminating the traffic into the stadium.  I hit up Stubhub.com to find
myself some tickets!  This being my first time to a game (as I have lived all
over the place and never seem to be able to get to New England) I wanted to get
some nice tickets.  Club box seats here I come!!!!
>
> Tickets purchased, hotel booked, trip to Boston Saturday morning planned and
dinner at Davio's at Patriot Place set!
>
> I did not mind driving and the 5 to 6 hour drive from center city Philadelphia
was not a bad trip.  We got in Foxboro around 7pm Friday night.  We checked into
the hotel and got some room service as we planned to just relax and get some
sleep.  The hotel is great, clean, comfortable and the staff is more than happy
to help you with anything you need.  In fact they are overly nice!  I have only
been to one hotel in my life that has treated me better and that was on my
honeymoon!  It really is great to have a hotel like that right there at the
stadium!
>
> Saturday morning and off to Boston... have to make my wife happy.  Spent much
of the day there and headed back to the hotel to get cleaned up for dinner. 
Dinner at Davio's was great.  If you have not had the pleasure, I highly
recommend it.  We have one here in Philly and it is just as good!  Food is
great, service is on par with what you would expect from a nice restaurant, just
a great place to eat.
>
> Sunday morning... FINALLY!  I was excited... I really did not get much sleep! 
Threw on the jersey and went for breakfast!  The weather was not the best,
however, what did I care?  I was there to see the game!  Walking to the stadium
I figured it would be a good idea to get myself a poncho and I was right.  It
just seemed to mist/rain off an on the entire game.  But I was dry thanks to the
poncho!
>
> We walk to the stadium and seeing as though I was not familiar with it I was
not sure where to go in order to get into the club box seats. Finally found were
we where supposed to be and all I can say is WOW.  What a great way to start out
seeing the Patriots live!  The club box is really nice, lots of food, beer, you
name it.  They had some of the old Patriots players there signing autographs and
the cheerleaders came up around halftime.  It was a fantastic way to be part of
the game.
>
> As for the game itself.  What can I say, they won!  We all know that by now. 
But what really got my interests was the fact that during the TV timeouts the
team would be out on the field (mostly the defense) pumping the crowd up!  That
was great to see!  My wife loved that they were dancing around and getting the
crowd into the game!
>
> All in all, it was a great time and I really plan on doing it again. 
Hopefully this year!!!!!
>

#15937

From: Laureen Mazalewski Modder <l_mazalewski@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 7:27 pm
Subject: RE: Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

patssoxrevsc...

I was absolutely right there with you. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop...

To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
From: usrtdsl@...
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 18:52:18 +0000
Subject: [patriotzip] Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

This was indeed a fantastic way to spend an anniversary. It sounds like you had fun. I envy you.

On a side note, was it just me or did everyone else who read this just wait for something bad to happen. I was waiting for "they lost our reservation" or "our tickets were scalped". I am so glad it was a happy story, not a sad one.

Dave

--- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "dres74" <dres74@...> wrote:
>
> So I just wanted to share my trip with you all. About a month before the game my wife and I wanted to do something for our one year anniversary. Being the good husband that I am I suggested a trip to the stadium to watch a game. Honestly thinking that I would get some type of look that would burn a hole right into me! Much to my surprise my wife thought that this was a great idea.... we could spend the weekend up in that area (which would include a downtown trip to Boston for some shopping for her)
>
> So with it said... time to plan. We decided to stay at Patriot Place in the hotel. Thinking that this would make our life a little easier on Sunday morning, eliminating the traffic into the stadium. I hit up Stubhub.com to find myself some tickets! This being my first time to a game (as I have lived all over the place and never seem to be able to get to New England) I wanted to get some nice tickets. Club box seats here I come!!!!
>
> Tickets purchased, hotel booked, trip to Boston Saturday morning planned and dinner at Davio's at Patriot Place set!
>
> I did not mind driving and the 5 to 6 hour drive from center city Philadelphia was not a bad trip. We got in Foxboro around 7pm Friday night. We checked into the hotel and got some room service as we planned to just relax and get some sleep. The hotel is great, clean, comfortable and the staff is more than happy to help you with anything you need. In fact they are overly nice! I have only been to one hotel in my life that has treated me better and that was on my honeymoon! It really is great to have a hotel like that right there at the stadium!
>
> Saturday morning and off to Boston... have to make my wife happy. Spent much of the day there and headed back to the hotel to get cleaned up for dinner. Dinner at Davio's was great. If you have not had the pleasure, I highly recommend it. We have one here in Philly and it is just as good! Food is great, service is on par with what you would expect from a nice restaurant, just a great place to eat.
>
> Sunday morning... FINALLY! I was excited... I really did not get much sleep! Threw on the jersey and went for breakfast! The weather was not the best, however, what did I care? I was there to see the game! Walking to the stadium I figured it would be a good idea to get myself a poncho and I was right. It just seemed to mist/rain off an on the entire game. But I was dry thanks to the poncho!
>
> We walk to the stadium and seeing as though I was not familiar with it I was not sure where to go in order to get into the club box seats. Finally found were we where supposed to be and all I can say is WOW. What a great way to start out seeing the Patriots live! The club box is really nice, lots of food, beer, you name it. They had some of the old Patriots players there signing autographs and the cheerleaders came up around halftime. It was a fantastic way to be part of the game.
>
> As for the game itself. What can I say, they won! We all know that by now. But what really got my interests was the fact that during the TV timeouts the team would be out on the field (mostly the defense) pumping the crowd up! That was great to see! My wife loved that they were dancing around and getting the crowd into the game!
>
> All in all, it was a great time and I really plan on doing it again. Hopefully this year!!!!!
>

Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail�. See how.

#15938

From: chris dressler <dres74@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 7:34 pm
Subject: RE: Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

dres74

No, no other shoe... it was a great trip and hope to be able to repeat it this year! The energy in the stadium was fantastic! And... I picked myself up a nice signed Authentic Helmet! (signed by recently retired #54 Tedy) to add to my growing collection of Patriots items!

All in all it was a very nice mini-vacation for my wife and I

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Laureen Mazalewski Modder <l_mazalewski@...> wrote:

From: Laureen Mazalewski Modder <l_mazalewski@...>
Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...
To: "Zip's Email List" <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 3:27 PM

I was absolutely right there with you. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop...

To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
From: usrtdsl@yahoo. com
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 18:52:18 +0000
Subject: [patriotzip] Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

This was indeed a fantastic way to spend an anniversary. It sounds like you had fun. I envy you.

On a side note, was it just me or did everyone else who read this just wait for something bad to happen. I was waiting for "they lost our reservation" or "our tickets were scalped". I am so glad it was a happy story, not a sad one.

Dave

--- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, "dres74" <dres74@...> wrote:
>
> So I just wanted to share my trip with you all. About a month before the game my wife and I wanted to do something for our one year anniversary. Being the good husband that I am I suggested a trip to the stadium to watch a game. Honestly thinking that I would get some type of look that would burn a hole right into me! Much to my surprise my wife thought that this was a great idea.... we could spend the weekend up in that area (which would include a downtown trip to Boston for some shopping for her)
>
> So with it said... time to plan. We decided to stay at Patriot Place in the hotel. Thinking that this would make our life a little easier on Sunday morning, eliminating the traffic into the stadium. I hit up Stubhub.com to find myself some tickets! This being my first time to a game (as I have lived all over the place and never seem to be able to get to New England) I wanted to get some nice tickets. Club box seats here I come!!!!
>
> Tickets purchased, hotel booked, trip to Boston Saturday morning planned and dinner at Davio's at Patriot Place set!
>
> I did not mind driving and the 5 to 6 hour drive from center city Philadelphia was not a bad trip. We got in Foxboro around 7pm Friday night. We checked into the hotel and got some room service as we planned to just relax and get some sleep. The hotel is great, clean, comfortable and the staff is more than happy to help you with anything you need. In fact they are overly nice! I have only been to one hotel in my life that has treated me better and that was on my honeymoon! It really is great to have a hotel like that right there at the stadium!
>
> Saturday morning and off to Boston... have to make my wife happy. Spent much of the day there and headed back to the hotel to get cleaned up for dinner. Dinner at Davio's was great. If you have not had the pleasure, I highly recommend it. We have one here in Philly and it is just as good! Food is great, service is on par with what you would expect from a nice restaurant, just a great place to eat.
>
> Sunday morning... FINALLY! I was excited... I really did not get much sleep! Threw on the jersey and went for breakfast! The weather was not the best, however, what did I care? I was there to see the game! Walking to the stadium I figured it would be a good idea to get myself a poncho and I was right. It just seemed to mist/rain off an on the entire game. But I was dry thanks to the poncho!
>
> We walk to the stadium and seeing as though I was not familiar with it I was not sure where to go in order to get into the club box seats. Finally found were we where supposed to be and all I can say is WOW. What a great way to start out seeing the Patriots live! The club box is really nice, lots of food, beer, you name it. They had some of the old Patriots players there signing autographs and the cheerleaders came up around halftime. It was a fantastic way to be part of the game.
>
> As for the game itself. What can I say, they won! We all know that by now. But what really got my interests was the fact that during the TV timeouts the team would be out on the field (mostly the defense) pumping the crowd up! That was great to see! My wife loved that they were dancing around and getting the crowd into the game!
>
> All in all, it was a great time and I really plan on doing it again. Hopefully this year!!!!!
>

Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail�. See how.

#15939

From: Monty Rodrigues <patfan1@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 7:59 pm
Subject: Re: Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

patfan1

He was fortunate enough to not meet me, so there was no sad story. :)

From: Laureen Mazalewski Modder <l_mazalewski@...>
To: Zip's Email List <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 3:27:33 PM
Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

I was absolutely right there with you. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop...

To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
From: usrtdsl@...
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 18:52:18 +0000
Subject: [patriotzip] Re: My Trip to the Atlanta Game...

This was indeed a fantastic way to spend an anniversary. It sounds like you had fun. I envy you.

On a side note, was it just me or did everyone else who read this just wait for something bad to happen. I was waiting for "they lost our reservation" or "our tickets were scalped". I am so glad it was a happy story, not a sad one.

Dave

--- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, "dres74" <dres74@...> wrote:
>
> So I just wanted to share my trip with you all. About a month before the game my wife and I wanted to do something for our one year anniversary. Being the good husband that I am I suggested a trip to the stadium to watch a game. Honestly thinking that I would get some type of look that would burn a hole right into me! Much to my surprise my wife thought that this was a great idea.... we could spend the weekend up in that area (which would include a downtown trip to Boston for some shopping for her)
>
> So with it said... time to plan. We decided to stay at Patriot Place in the hotel. Thinking that this would make our life a little easier on Sunday morning, eliminating the traffic into the stadium. I hit up Stubhub.com to find myself some tickets! This being my first time to a game (as I have lived all over the place and never seem to be able to get to New England) I wanted to get some nice tickets. Club box seats here I come!!!!
>
> Tickets purchased, hotel booked, trip to Boston Saturday morning planned and dinner at Davio's at Patriot Place set!
>
> I did not mind driving and the 5 to 6 hour drive from center city Philadelphia was not a bad trip. We got in Foxboro around 7pm Friday night. We checked into the hotel and got some room service as we planned to just relax and get some sleep. The hotel is great, clean, comfortable and the staff is more than happy to help you with anything you need. In fact they are overly nice! I have only been to one hotel in my life that has treated me better and that was on my honeymoon! It really is great to have a hotel like that right there at the stadium!
>
> Saturday morning and off to Boston... have to make my wife happy. Spent much of the day there and headed back to the hotel to get cleaned up for dinner. Dinner at Davio's was great. If you have not had the pleasure, I highly recommend it. We have one here in Philly and it is just as good! Food is great, service is on par with what you would expect from a nice restaurant, just a great place to eat.
>
> Sunday morning... FINALLY! I was excited... I really did not get much sleep! Threw on the jersey and went for breakfast! The weather was not the best, however, what did I care? I was there to see the game! Walking to the stadium I figured it would be a good idea to get myself a poncho and I was right. It just seemed to mist/rain off an on the entire game. But I was dry thanks to the poncho!
>
> We walk to the stadium and seeing as though I was not familiar with it I was not sure where to go in order to get into the club box seats. Finally found were we where supposed to be and all I can say is WOW. What a great way to start out seeing the Patriots live! The club box is really nice, lots of food, beer, you name it. They had some of the old Patriots players there signing autographs and the cheerleaders came up around halftime. It was a fantastic way to be part of the game.
>
> As for the game itself. What can I say, they won! We all know that by now. But what really got my interests was the fact that during the TV timeouts the team would be out on the field (mostly the defense) pumping the crowd up! That was great to see! My wife loved that they were dancing around and getting the crowd into the game!
>
> All in all, it was a great time and I really plan on doing it again. Hopefully this year!!!!!
>

Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail�. See how.

#15940

From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 9:16 pm
Subject: Ochocinco on BB

Rich_Carr

Chad has a new book out.  Couple of BB-related quotes
according to ESPN:

"Spygate, my ass!  The Patriots are good, but there's a reason why
they are winning even though everybody is over age 50. It's the
fucking coaching. It ain't no secret."

and

"[Marvin Lewis] doesn't have control of the football team the same way
Belichick has control.  No way."

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#15941

From: "Machado.Nicholas" <machado.nicholas@...>
Date: Thu Oct 1, 2009 9:30 pm
Subject: Re: Ochocinco on BB

machado.nicholas@...

At 05:16 PM 10/1/2009 -0400, you wrote:

"Spygate, my ass! The Patriots are good, but there's a reason why
they are winning even though everybody is over age 50. It's the
fucking coaching. It ain't no secret."

Great quote.

I think I may frame this . . . .

Harry

#15942

From: "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...>
Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

PatriotZip

Good post George though I tend a little more with Scott in appreciation of the talent of this Ravens team. Certainly you didn't slight them by any means though I am honestly worried about the game. My preview is up and I certainly agree the home crowed advantage of our offense being able to communicate and thus better deal with the blitzes will be significant. If Brady and the receivers as well as the offensive coordinator in his choices, handle those blitzes better then we can beat this team. If, however they do not make those adjustments it could be a long day.

So just a reminder that while the preview isn't posted here weekly, it's on the site every Friday around noon.

Go Pats!

Zip

#15943

From: "Machado.Nicholas" <machado.nicholas@...>
Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 9:34 pm
Subject: Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

machado.nicholas@...

I have some concerns about the Ravens and I think this is the toughest test for the Pats so far this year. If the Falcons didn't bring their 'A' game like my son says - I disagree - I know the Ravens will. But I'm not overly worried because the Pats have shown so much improvement each week. I did not expect the defense to be at the level it is this early. And that's not to say they don't have a lot further to go but the upgrade to the backfield has allowed the LB's and the safety's to give a little more support to the DL and make up much of what was lost with the departure of Richard Seymour. It looks like Wilfork will play but if not I think they will be able to make up for that too. I expect Brady to take another step in his come back and be harder to defend. Could be the breakout game for TB. The OL played the best it has all season last week and I expect that to continue. The running game is more of a threat than it has been in a while which will tend to keep a very good Ravens defense from blitzing at will. I expect a tough, physical, close game but I think the Pats will be able to prevail especially if Welker is able to play.

Harry

At 02:48 PM 10/2/2009 -0400, you wrote:

�

Good post George though I tend a little more with Scott in appreciation of the talent of this Ravens team.� Certainly you didn't slight them by any means though I am honestly worried about the game.� My preview is up and I certainly agree the home crowed advantage of our offense being able to communicate and thus better deal with the blitzes will be significant.� If�Brady and the receivers as well as the offensive coordinator in his choices, handle those blitzes better then we can beat this team.� If, however they do not make those adjustments it could�be a long day.
�
So just a reminder that while the preview isn't posted here weekly, it's on the site every Friday around noon.
�
Go Pats!
Zip�

#15944

From: "George" <patswingr@...>
Date: Sat Oct 3, 2009 3:46 am
Subject: RE: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

patswingr

Oh, I am a long way from being without worry, Randy! :-)

I worry about every Patriots game; and much more so when they play a team that is clearly a playoff contender, as the Ravens are.

As I said, my confidence rests upon the shaky assumption that Brady will continue to progress in a return to his best levels of accuracy and timely delivery of his passes. That's certainly not a certainty until we see it happen. But I do believe that he's on the way back, and I do believe that the Patriots will win, if he plays at least close to his best game on Sunday.

George

From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 1:49 AM
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

So just a reminder that while the preview isn't posted here weekly, it's on the site every Friday around noon.

Go Pats!

Zip

#15945

From: "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...>
Date: Sat Oct 3, 2009 10:56 am
Subject: Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

PatriotZip

With the help of the NFL network I re-'watched' the 2007 meeting in week 12 this morning. One fact I hadn't fully appreciated was how well they shut down Randy Moss and We Welker in that game. Granted Brady was off the mark but there was a reason it took Gaffney to catch the game winner.

The infamous 4th and 6 had a failed QB sneak which Brady claims was due to his hearing the TO whistle from Rex Ryan's call of time-out. Stephen Neal then made it an illegal motion five yards further and how do we convert? Brady runs (yep you heard it right) for 13 yards and Rolle adds on five yards for illegal contact allegedly. Brady runs for 13 yards on that Ravens defense. They either blitzed or dropped into coverage with an umbrella deep enough for Brady to have that much room...very strange.

Their blitz was so successful, I'm surprised they didn't finish the game with more blitzes...I think that's a lesson Ryan took forward with him to this year's Jets game and one for which New England had better be prepared.

Go Pats!

Zip

#15946

From: Ed Bryant <edbryant36@...>
Date: Sat Oct 3, 2009 2:50 pm
Subject: Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

edbryant36

I could say your suggestion of Steve Neal needing to be corrected, but truly, it was your suggestion yesterday that provided motivation, and for the sake of history, I finished the poem, prepared it to be cut and pasted, and then, like in a too-convenient TV plot device, found an e-mail to which I might reply, rather than being forced to type out a "to" line. I used the time, and then some more, alas, to write this little intro to the following brand new old poem:

The Raven (s Game)

Poe and Bryant

Once, upon a moon at harvest,

Vincent, Ty, Mike Wright, and Jarvis,

Over Dunkin Donuts coffee (which they made the rookies pour)

Derrick Burgess (disappointing) suddenly found himself anointing,

Yet another former Raider, knocking there, on heaven’s door.

Gathering more Moss? Ty muttered, let him enter heaven’s door!

Pepper, can he play 3-4?

And distinctly, we remember, Monday night one past December,

As each separate dying ember of the streak fell towards the floor,

Skeptically, the true believers, all implored the Great Deceiver,

“Guide to pay dirt, one receiver: give the Pats another score.”

Still, apparent random pressure, purple blackbirds, cat-quick (Cheshire?)

Came at Brady, causing terror fans had rarely felt before.

So that now, to still the beating, zebras helpfully repeating,

In response to our entreating, Ryan, Hochstein, still, down four!

Twenty-four subtracting twenty, always, always, still, down four!

Presently, things were improving,

Brady scrambled, chains were moving,

Surely now, the Pats are grooving,

Heading for one final score!

Destiny, we kept insisting,

Why, then are those birds resisting?

(Is that image our necks, twisting?)

Once again, down number four.

(Kornheiser is such a bore!)

Need a holding call: (free Watson!)

And a Jet son (not some flot-son)

And some marksmanship from Brady,

Just to earn a simple score!

Open, there, for just an instant,

Eight yards downfield, far left, distant,

After review, Walt insistent,

Gaffney grabbed it for the score!

Twenty-seven, twenty-four!

(Boy, did that make Bart Scott sore!)

Even though Scott blew his top-per,

League rules say we end it proper,

Did the Ravens come a cropper,

On the short end of the score?

Down just three, the Birds were in it,

One time-out, less than a minute,

Let them play, no need to spin it,

Seconds? They had forty-four!

Might we now exhale together?

Boller throws to Meriweather,

But he drops it (nice play, Heather!):

Baltimore may try once more!

Deep into that darkness peering,

Where’s that oblate spheroid veering?

See them leap, it must be nearing

Pats and Ravens at the four.

Mercifully, an end to waitin’,

But: it’s in the hands of Clayton

Why’s New England hesitatin’?

Wrap him up, don’t let him score!

Twenty-seven, twenty-four!

Terdell listened, deep in rapture,

Mayo hoped the glimpse might capture,

Sands’ attention, (like the ap’ture of a Nikon SL4).

From the First State, now, comes Flacco,

Stakes are head to head (not RACO)!

(Pluralizing the late Jacko), this New England fans implore:

Beat them, beat them (beat Mike Oher!).

Beat the Ravens, ever more!

Beat them on October 4!

I hope it's true enough to the history and the meter, but it was Russ Hochstein, who, like Heath Evans, was eventually sent packing, but not because of any on-field mistake; it's just a cruel business sometimes!

#15947

From: kmacalp@...
Date: Sat Oct 3, 2009 1:25 pm
Subject: Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

kmacalp

George gave a good analysis as he often does. (Witness his call for putting Brady under center more and using more two back sets in the days before the Atlanta game. He hit the mark with that one.) It makes me feel better. This is definitely the toughest test so far, and it's still daunting. We'll see how the Pats measure up. I see the Pats as a team which can continue to improve no matter what they do this week, but I'd be overjoyed with a win here.

Sincerely,

Scott Sheaffer

#15948

From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@...>
Date: Sat Oct 3, 2009 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

majeedaamir...

Yes I believe a win here is critical to our success. It will mark one quarter of the football season. We will be having a pizza party while my 7 year old son and his boy friends from the school watch this game. He tells me they are all very excited.

From: "kmacalp@..." <kmacalp@...>
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 1:25:19 PM
Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Sincerely,

Scott Sheaffer

#15949

From: "George" <patswingr@...>
Date: Sat Oct 3, 2009 6:12 pm
Subject: Midnight Magic

patswingr

I was staying up late tonight to prepare for the "overnighter" I have every Sunday night/Monday morning. As most of you know, I live in Thailand. The Sunday games begin at midnight, Sunday night here. So I try to "ease into" that long night by staying up into the morning Saturday night, and sleeping in on Sunday mornings.

So I was looking for something decent to watch on TV. Nuthin'. I decided that I'd log into my 'NFL Game Pass', and see what was on 'live' on NFL Network. Much to my surprise, it was the 'America's Game' series, featuring none other than the 2004 Patriots season! Great program. I hope that many of you saw it. Lots of Tedy Bruschi comments throughout the recounting of that great season, which was capped, of course, by the Patriots 3rd Super Bowl championship - the only one for which I was in the stadium. Great memories!

And now, it's being followed by the Patriots 2007 game against the Baltimore Ravens.

I hope the Patriots are tuned in to NFL Network on their Saturday afternoon. What a way to get their mind set!!

George

#15950

From: "Don Diamant" <jeepndd@...>
Date: Sat Oct 3, 2009 8:47 pm
Subject: RE: Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

jeepndd

While I certainly hope we do win it isn’t a game that is really critical to our success. This team is not a division rival and it is early in the season yet. We don’t have to win every game we just have to win enough of the right games. We saw that poignantly so last season as we went 11-5 to become the second team in the history of the NFL not to make the playoffs with such a dominant record. But we didn’t win the right games so our season ended early.

Don

From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aamir Majeed
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:08 PM
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

#15951

From: Aamir Majeed <majeedaamir@...>
Date: Sat Oct 3, 2009 9:02 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

majeedaamir...

Yes, Don, this is true. You make a very good point!

From: Don Diamant <jeepndd@...>
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 4:47:48 PM
Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

Don

From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Aamir Majeed
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:08 PM
To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Ravens Was Re: More On incidents at Gilette Stadium

#15952

From: Ed Bryant <edbryant36@...>
Date: Sat Oct 3, 2009 10:25 pm
Subject: Re: Midnight Magic

edbryant36

Super Bowl 39? Why can't we get guys like Greg Lewis?????

--- On Sat, 10/3/09, George <patswingr@...> wrote:

From: George <patswingr@...>
Subject: [patriotzip] Midnight Magic
To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 2:12 PM

I was staying up late tonight to prepare for the "overnighter" I have every Sunday night/Monday morning. As most of you know, I live in Thailand. The Sunday games begin at midnight, Sunday night here. So I try to "ease into" that long night by staying up into the morning Saturday night, and sleeping in on Sunday mornings.

So I was looking for something decent to watch on TV. Nuthin'. I decided that I'd log into my 'NFL Game Pass', and see what was on 'live' on NFL Network. Much to my surprise, it was the 'America's Game' series, featuring none other than the 2004 Patriots season! Great program. I hope that many of you saw it. Lots of Tedy Bruschi comments throughout the recounting of that great season, which was capped, of course, by the Patriots 3rd Super Bowl championship - the only one for which I was in the stadium. Great memories!

And now, it's being followed by the Patriots 2007 game against the Baltimore Ravens.

I hope the Patriots are tuned in to NFL Network on their Saturday afternoon. What a way to get their mind set!!

George

#15953

From: Rich Carreiro <rlcarr@...>
Date: Sun Oct 4, 2009 3:40 am
Subject: Light, Warren downgraded to "probable"

Rich_Carr

Matt Light (knee) and Ty Warren (illness) have been downgraded
to "probable" for tomorrow's game.

*sigh*

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

#15954

From: "George" <patswingr@...>
Date: Sun Oct 4, 2009 12:34 pm
Subject: My Playbook

patswingr

Here are some things I'd like to see from the Patriots against the Ravens:

1. Get outside and/or over the pressure. Plays that I think would be effective in this game are: quick slants to Moss, Watson, and Welker (or Edelman)off of a 3-step drop; quick pitchouts to the weak side of the Ravens D when they overload; lobs to a RB over Ravens coming from an overloaded formation; checking out to running plays to the opposite side of those overload blitzes.

2. Continue with a good mix of 'T' sets that include both runs and passes from that formation. Include some "quick hitters", right up the gut, from the T. Seems to me that most of the Patriots running plays are relatively slow to get going. Defenses always seem to have time to react well before our RBs hit the target hole. Hitting 'em quick a few times will slow down the penetration that so often kills our runs.

3. Defensively, we have to stop the run, and make Flacco beat us. Bodden and Springs have both looked good in coverage. Try more man coverage, at least early in the game, and play 8 in the box to shut down McGahee and Rice. That also gives us a better option for pressure, when Flacco drops back.

4. Although the 8 in the box is there to stop the run, the first check for either the SS or Thomas from his LB spot has to be Todd Heap. Do NOT let him slip behind them.

George

#15955

From: "George" <patswingr@...>
Date: Sun Oct 4, 2009 4:02 pm
Subject: Galloway OUT, Welker IN

patswingr

So, what does this mean for our formations?

This may be a silly, way off base, guess, BUT ...

What if the Patriots came out with 2 RBs, a TE, and 2 WRs? (I'm old enough to remember when most teams did that every week!) They could start with the two RBs behind Brady, and shift into all kinds of variations. All 4 of our RBs are good receivers. They could really confuse the Ravens LBs and DBs with shifts and motion from the RBs. Stay in for a run? Stay in to block? Shift one or both RBs into a wing or slot position? Send a RB in motion before the snap? Great versatility to handle the overload tactic of the Ravens, too!

Of course, this would only happen if they have planned it, and practiced it, during the week. But I love the idea!

The one thing I feel comfortable in saying is that we won't miss Galloway. Whether they do something like I've described above, or just put Aiken and/or Edelman out there as the WR opposite Moss, with Welker in his usual slot position; it can't be worse than having Galloway, who has zero sync with Brady, taking up space.

George

#15956

From: Steve Basile <avatar@...>
Date: Sun Oct 4, 2009 4:08 pm
Subject: Re: Galloway OUT, Welker IN

austin_fella

Mayo is still out, but Wilfork is IN too according to Sal Palantonio at ESPN.

Hopeful as ever,

Baze

--
Steve Basile
Manager
B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
Austin, TX
Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
Web: www.bdrileys.com

From: George <patswingr@...>
Reply-To: "patriotzip@yahoogroups.com" <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 23:02:16 +0700
To: "patriotzip@yahoogroups.com" <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [patriotzip] Galloway OUT, Welker IN

So, what does this mean for our formations?

This may be a silly, way off base, guess, BUT ...

What if the Patriots came out with 2 RBs, a TE, and 2 WRs? (I'm old enough to remember when most teams did that every week!) They could start with the two RBs behind Brady, and shift into all kinds of variations. All 4 of our RBs are good receivers. They could really confuse the Ravens LBs and DBs with shifts and motion from the RBs. Stay in for a run? Stay in to block? Shift one or both RBs into a wing or slot position? Send a RB in motion before the snap? Great versatility to handle the overload tactic of the Ravens, too!

Of course, this would only happen if they have planned it, and practiced it, during the week. But I love the idea!

The one thing I feel comfortable in saying is that we won't miss Galloway. Whether they do something like I've described above, or just put Aiken and/or Edelman out there as the WR opposite Moss, with Welker in his usual slot position; it can't be worse than having Galloway, who has zero sync with Brady, taking up space.

George