The best the Jets can do are 10-6.  The best they
can do in the division now is 2-4.

Pats are 3-1 in the division, so even if NE only makes
it to 10-6, they'll hold the tiebreaker over NYJ (now
that the teams have split).

And 10-6 isn't going to make it as an AFC wildcard.  So
the Jets are pretty much toast for 2009.

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

RB Fred Taylor
DB Shawn Springs
RB Sammy Morris
LB Rob Ninkovich
OL Stephen Neal
OL Matt Light
WR Sam Aiken
DL Jarvis Green

--
Rich Carreiro                            rlcarr@...

One other key ingredient George which I know you know but wasn't stated.  A
defender has to make contact which
absolutely took place here.  If without contact you surrender yards on your own
power than those yards are lost.  No
change to this play by that clarification just thought it should be added.

----- Original Message -----
From: "George" <patswingr@...>
To: <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:21 PM
Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Re: The Play


> Of course, Rob. It's ball position, with possession, when forward progress
> stops, that determines the spot.
> George

So Bill Simmons isn't my first choice for the analytical part yet I noticed in
his column he blamed Welker for cutting
outside on the third down play before the infamous call.  ALlegedly Welker had
the middle entirely open and Brady was
looking there but when Wes cut out Brady tried to adjust and force the throw we
all know was almost picked off for six
the other way.  Anyone still got the play to peek at and see if Simmons has any
merit in this claim?

Can't wait to have Welker against the Jets on Sunday!

Go Pats!
Zip
Randy
& the Mighty Quinn
www.zipdogblog.com

While I still have an different opinion on the particular call, the article is
hillarious and has some good humor as
usual.



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnflpicks/091120

> his body and the ball are directly over the stripe. He is hit AFTER >that,

That's what I take to be critical, where the ball is when forward progress
stops.

-Rog




--- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "George" <patswingr@...> wrote:
>
> I've made all of the comments I need to make about BB's coaching and
> decision making on that last series. But I do want to add something about
> the actual play, based upon the review I've seen tonight on 'NFL Total
> Access'. (It broadcasts a day later here in Thailand.)
>
> They showed the play from an angle I hadn't seen before. I was shot from a
> camera to the right rear of Brady. That angle clearly shows that the ball
> DID bounce off of Faulk's hands when it first hit them. It bounced INWARD,
> toward his body; and Faulk clutched it to his chest immediately. That
> happened in a fraction of a second. Faulk's left foot was on the ground,
> past the 30-yard line, when the ball first hit his hands, and bounced off.
> From that angle, you can clearly see that Faulk has full possession of the
> ball as his right foot hits the ground, also PAST the 30 yard line; and both
> his body and the ball are directly over the stripe. He is hit AFTER that,
> and driven back to the spot where the officials marked the ball. The
> "closer" on it comes from viewing the more commonly shown angle - the
> original "live" shot from behind Faulk. It's that shot that confirms that
> Faulk's body is over the line when his right foot hits the ground. Combine
> that with the other shot, showing that he HAD possession of the ball when
> that right foot hit the ground, and you have clear evidence that it WAS a
> bad call. The Patriots should have had the 1st down; and I think there's a
> good chance (though not a certainty) that it would have been re-marked as a
> 1st down on a review.
>
> All moot, as we've said before. I do not blame the official for his call on
> such a "bang-bang" play. There WAS a bobble, as he called. From his angle,
> without a view of the ball after it first hit Faulk's hands, it was a
> reasonable call. I just wanted to point out that, from what I've seen, it
> should have been a 1st down; and might have been reversed, IF we'd had a TO
> left with which to challenge it.
>
> OK. On to the Jets!
>
> George
>

Al, the line is "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in." ...
Oh, wait, I forgot. A cop can't be quoting a gangster. Just wouldn't be
right. :-)

But ... Yeah, since they had already blown the series with wasted time outs,
and the wrong play on 3rd down, they should have punted!
George




-----Original Message-----
From: patriots-bounces@... [mailto:patriots-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of patsfanlt@...
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 3:14 AM
To: Patriot List; Zip List; Mark Morse; Ed Bryant
Subject: Re: Disrespect the Jets

Ed,

You are so right!!!  I said I would'nt post about the Colts game and I get
sucked right back in.

I will say this though.  This last week the list was very active and we had
a great debate.  We all gave our opinions and not one person got out of
hand. There was no name calling.  I thought it was lots of fun.

So lets all move on and focus at the task at hand.  Beat the Jets and move
closer in wrapping up our division and securing a spot in the playoffs.

I still say they should have punted the ball.  Guys relax I was only
kidding!!!   LOL

Big Al (trying to add humor)
---- Ed Bryant <edbryant36@...> wrote:
> I'm concerned here.  Sleuth supposedly moved on to thoughts of a 28th
World Championship and a win over the Jets this coming Sunday in the four
o'clock, nationally televised time slot.
>
> Let me refresh: we love Green, we hate green.  We love Green-Ellis, we
> hate green Ellis.
>
> And playing for the Eagles did not make Hobbs Green-Ellis, but only green
Ellis.  We should all pray for him, but the way.  If he ever plays again,
it's against my medical advice, which I am unqualified to give!!!
>
> The Jets are still in our division.  Indy's in our past.  We are
guaranteed one game in Miami, and one game versus the Saints, but if we want
two more of each, we need paradoxically to focus on one game at a time, and
the Colts aren't in it!!!!
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, patsfanlt@... <patsfanlt@...> wrote:
>
> From: patsfanlt@... <patsfanlt@...>
> Subject: Re: Defense disrespected
> To: "Patriot List" <patriots@...>, "Zip List"
> <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com>, "Mark Morse" <packy001@...>
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 10:10 AM
>
> Mark,
>
> I can't take much value into Green's response to your question.  Its the
Patriot way.  He wont go against his coach and the coach wont go against
them.
>
> I do find it interesting what two former DEFENSIVE CAPTAINS had to say who
dont play for the Pats anymore.
>
> Big Al (got you thinking huh?)
> ---- Mark Morse <packy001@...> wrote:
> > I had a chance to chat with Jarvis Green Monday night at the signing and
fundraiser for his charity.  I asked Jarvis if he felt disrespected as
defensive player when BB went for it on 4 and 2.  Jarvis rollled his eyes
and shook his head and sttaed that he did feel disrespected.
> >
> > I think the leaders on defense (Wilfork, Mayo, Seau, Meriweather) will
jack up the defense this week in practice and they should come out with fire
in their eyes against the JESTS!
> >  
> >  <font face="comic sans ms" color="#438059" size="5">Mark </font>
> >
> >
> >       
> > _______________________________________________
> > patriots mailing list
> > patriots@...
> > http://lists.bosco.net/mailman/listinfo/patriots
>
> _______________________________________________
> patriots mailing list
> patriots@...
> http://lists.bosco.net/mailman/listinfo/patriots

_______________________________________________
patriots mailing list
patriots@...
http://lists.bosco.net/mailman/listinfo/patriots

I agree with Cecil that while we can't tell whether Mayo is feeding us the
Patriot Way line or not, this is exactly how
I would hope they looked at it.

After tonight I'll be fully on the Jets but I'm trying to clean through email
and get my preview finished...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cecil Wright" <cecilw45@...>
To: "New England Patriots" <patriots@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:33 PM
Subject: RE: Defense disrespected



I like the way Jerod Mayo phrased it in saying that the D looked at it as a
"challenge".  If the O didn't make it, he
had faith that we could stop them on a short field.  Now whether that's true or
not is open to question.  But that came
from someone who should know, who was actually involved in the game.



”We looked at it as a challenge. People say it was a lack of confidence in us.
But we looked at it as a challenge,”
Mayo said. ”We looked at it as coach having enough confidence in us to have a
short field. Unfortunately, we were
unable to step up to the challenge and get the job done. Hopefully we can get it
done this week. ”



Regarding Tedy's comments, Mayo had these comments:



To be honest, I have the ultimate respect for Tedy and everything he’s done for
this organization. But he’s not in this
locker room at this point in time,” Mayo said. ”He doesn’t know the feelings
that this defense or that this team has.
We still have our confidence. We still have our swagger. We’re going to go out
Sunday and show the media, I guess.”



Cecil (likes Mayo more and more and...)





> From: vraymond8@...
> To: patsfanlt@...; patriots@...; patriotzip@yahoogroups.com;
packy001@...
> Subject: RE: Defense disrespected
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:28:14 -0500
>
> I personaly don't value Tedy's and Rodney's opinions on that. What do they
know about coaching and managing a game
> compared to BB? Sunday's game had 2006 AFCCG written all over it from the
beginning. You would think that they should
> know better.
>
> Again, Archie Manning was reportedly praying for the Pats to punt in that
situation which pretty much telling that a
> lot of people on the Colts side were scared to death to see Pats going for it.
We should ask Tedy if we have prefer
> the Raiders to go for it on 4th and 1 during the Snow Bowl instead of punting.
I'm sure he was glad the Raidahs
> punted the ball.
>
> Ask yourself the question the other way around and you will apprecaite BB's
call.
>
> VR - does that mean that Gruden disrespected his offense?
>
> > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:10:11 -0500
> > From: patsfanlt@...
> > To: patriots@...; patriotzip@yahoogroups.com; packy001@...
> > Subject: Re: Defense disrespected
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > I can't take much value into Green's response to your question. Its the
Patriot way. He wont go against his coach
> > and the coach wont go against them.
> >
> > I do find it interesting what two former DEFENSIVE CAPTAINS had to say who
dont play for the Pats anymore.
> >
> > Big Al (got you thinking huh?)
> > ---- Mark Morse <packy001@...> wrote:
> > > I had a chance to chat with Jarvis Green Monday night at the signing and
fundraiser for his charity. I asked
> > > Jarvis if he felt disrespected as defensive player when BB went for it on
4 and 2. Jarvis rollled his eyes and
> > > shook his head and sttaed that he did feel disrespected.
> > >
> > > I think the leaders on defense (Wilfork, Mayo, Seau, Meriweather) will
jack up the defense this week in practice
> > > and they should come out with fire in their eyes against the JESTS!
> > >
> > > <font face="comic sans ms" color="#438059" size="5">Mark </font>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > patriots mailing list
> > > patriots@...
> > > http://lists.bosco.net/mailman/listinfo/patriots
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > patriots mailing list
> > patriots@...
> > http://lists.bosco.net/mailman/listinfo/patriots
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on
Facebook.
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691816
> _______________________________________________
> patriots mailing list
> patriots@...
> http://lists.bosco.net/mailman/listinfo/patriots

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691815
_______________________________________________
patriots mailing list
patriots@...
http://lists.bosco.net/mailman/listinfo/patriots


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09
07:51:00

The Herald says that Edelman has suffered a broken arm.
(And that the Pats cut Galloway knowing it.)

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2009/10/20/bad-break-at-receiver-patriots-rookie-julian-edelman-suffers-a-broken-arm/

Vincent while I agree with you on this I would expect them to feel
disrespected as defensive and former defensive players.  They should want to
be out there and not happy when they are not.  Good players want to play
whether they can or can not.  They are in my opinion wrong but I like the
attitude.

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: patriots-bounces@... [mailto:patriots-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Vincent Raymond
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:28 PM
To: patsfanlt@...; Patriot List; Zip List; Mark Morse
Subject: RE: Defense disrespected

I personaly don't value Tedy's and Rodney's opinions on that. What do they
know about coaching and managing a game compared to BB? Sunday's game had
2006 AFCCG written all over it from the beginning. You would think that they
should know better.

Again, Archie Manning was reportedly praying for the Pats to punt in that
situation which pretty much telling that a lot of people on the Colts side
were scared to death to see Pats going for it. We should ask Tedy if we have
prefer the Raiders to go for it on 4th and 1 during the Snow Bowl instead of
punting. I'm sure he was glad the Raidahs punted the ball.

Ask yourself the question the other way around and you will apprecaite BB's
call.

VR - does that mean that Gruden disrespected his offense?

I've made all of the comments I need to make about BB's coaching and decision making on that last series. But I do want to add something about the actual play, based upon the review I've seen tonight on 'NFL Total Access'. (It broadcasts a day later here in Thailand.)

They showed the play from an angle I hadn't seen before. I was shot from a camera to the right rear of Brady. That angle clearly shows that the ball DID bounce off of Faulk's hands when it first hit them. It bounced INWARD, toward his body; and Faulk clutched it to his chest immediately. That happened in a fraction of a second. Faulk's left foot was on the ground, past the 30-yard line, when the ball first hit his hands, and bounced off. From that angle, you can clearly see that Faulk has full possession of the ball as his right foot hits the ground, also PAST the 30 yard line; and both his body and the ball are directly over the stripe. He is hit AFTER that, and driven back to the spot where the officials marked the ball. The "closer" on it comes from viewing the more commonly shown angle - the original "live" shot from behind Faulk. It's that shot that confirms that Faulk's body is over the line when his right foot hits the ground. Combine that with the other shot, showing that he HAD possession of the ball when that right foot hit the ground, and you have clear evidence that it WAS a bad call. The Patriots should have had the 1st down; and I think there's a good chance (though not a certainty) that it would have been re-marked as a 1st down on a review.

All moot, as we've said before. I do not blame the official for his call on such a "bang-bang" play. There WAS a bobble, as he called. From his angle, without a view of the ball after it first hit Faulk's hands, it was a reasonable call. I just wanted to point out that, from what I've seen, it should have been a 1st down; and might have been reversed, IF we'd had a TO left with which to challenge it. 

OK. On to the Jets! 

I had a chance to chat with Jarvis Green Monday night at the signing and
fundraiser for his charity.  I asked Jarvis if he felt disrespected as defensive
player when BB went for it on 4 and 2.  Jarvis rollled his eyes and shook his
head and sttaed that he did feel disrespected.

I think the leaders on defense (Wilfork, Mayo, Seau, Meriweather) will jack up
the defense this week in practice and they should come out with fire in their
eyes against the JESTS!
 
 <font face="comic sans ms" color="#438059" size="5">Mark </font>

> I love your scenario for a few reasons.  Back in 2003 Bellichick cut the
defensive captain Lawyer Milloy.  Then as now
> Tedy Bruschi made some very strong comments about it and that was exactly what
the team needed.  I think it was Ed who
> pointed this out to me in a side discussion but basically Bruschi getting the
words out kept it from being the
> lingering unsaid thing for several weeks.

That's what I'm talking about.  A veteran can take the lead and see that the
conversation is a positive conversation.

-Roger






--- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "RandyZ.  Pierce" <alaric02@...> wrote:
>
> I love your scenario for a few reasons.  Back in 2003 Bellichick cut the
defensive captain Lawyer Milloy.  Then as now
> Tedy Bruschi made some very strong comments about it and that was exactly what
the team needed.  I think it was Ed who
> pointed this out to me in a side discussion but basically Bruschi getting the
words out kept it from being the
> lingering unsaid thing for several weeks.
>
> I have no idea how Bellichick would directly handle it because I'm never
privvy to such internal discussions but some
> of the potential in his arsenal include:
>
> 1) statistically my decision is the best choice for victory.
> 2) My offense could ask the same thing if I didn't give them the chance and
frankly they  were facing the weaker part
> of the Colts team (their defense) as opposed to you facing the strength of the
colts (their offense)
> 3)  THey had put up 34 points and moved the ball generally well while you had
allowed 28 and particularly struggled on
> your last two drives. (a.k.a. earn it by dominating)
> 4)  This way I gave both of you a chance and both units failed - so both of
you have a lot of work on executin ahead.
> 5)  I had a punt unit problem with several key members of the team missing...
> 6) I make the choices to best win the games and that was my choice your roles
are to execute in every sitation as well
> as you can - do your job.  I will evaluate all the choices I make to ensure
I'm still giving us the best chance to win
> and your job is to do the same here (film example) ...here...(film example) ad
infinitum)
>
> Bottom line is that I do believe BB mishandled the whole series leading up to
that one decision and I do believe he
> hand-cuffed the defense with his schemes prior to this.  I even think he blew
the strategy immediately after the
> turnover on downs in which I'd have sold the farm defensively to use single
coverage and all out blitz...if it burned
> us then it did so quickly and we get a chance to drive for a field goal.  If
it doesn't...well that would be good too!
>
> Go Pats!
> Zip.
>

Both are excellent quarterbacks and both are part of a team which decides
whether we win or lose.  I'd happily take
Brady over Manning every time thus far I've evaluated their games.  I'd take
Peyton above any other present quarterback
though.

Go Pats!
Zip