Very cool, thanks for sharing.

--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@...> wrote:
>
> Was home for the Thanksgiving holiday recently--so great to see old friends
and family. Had lots of martial arts training as well. For that, I would like to
give a little run down about how my training went. Will give some an idea on
what I was up to plus give some people out there an idea on how life outside of
the OYD fish tank really is.
>
> Seeing my old gong fu teacher for two lessons was great. Just like old times.
This year he's been teaching Liu style bagua so after the xing yi we would go
through those forms and then work on a particular part of one of the sets. What
was interesting about some of the skills presented is that you really need to
know how to use the right connections in the body and direct the mind to the
right place to make the skill work. You can't make it work by relying on
physical strength...or what you think the movement should be. Can't say I got
that down on those yet but it is something to play with.
>
> Some of the other Liu style applications from the forms were more familiar to
me as those have been presented before at other times, things like set up for
the planting punch, and were some great fighting applications to revisit.
>
> Got to see one of my classmates' school as well. As posted on here before, he
recently opened his own school in Pgh to teach and host classes. We did a lot of
comparison of weapons forms and other skills.
>
> That was mainly it for Pgh. Then I spent a few more days in Boston with the
purpose to train with some people I know there. In terms of martial arts, this
was the heart of my trip.
>
> Firstly, I was able to meet with my Iron Palm teacher, Dale Dugas
(www.bostonbaguazhang.com he has THE best iron palm and injury herbs I have ever
used) to learn his advanced iron palm material. It is no exaggeration to say
that this kind of material is profound. His advanced practices are very
internal, teach how to move the energy in the body up through the center line
and down to the palms, and train striking by mainly using the body. With the
focus on these subtle movements of the waist and spine, and when you start to
really refine the technique you don't look like you are moving much, you are
able to hit with your whole body from a short distance away.
>
> This is going to take some time to get this down but I've been practicing his
program for years now and am glad to get the really advanced stuff. I also got
some pointers on the internal iron vest set that I learned before from him.
Along with that, we spent some time on push hands, some Southern Mantis combat
applications and techniques to strengthen and develop the arms and grip.
>
> I didn't really want to make this post being about a comparison between what
I'm learning now and OYD (not that there's anything wrong with a comparison, but
it's just pretty self evident by now for anyone who has been out for a length of
time) but I do have to say that this kind of material is not and will not be
found in OYD. Ever. This is the point I want to make about it: having trained in
OYD for 11 years, and having known people who were in OYD for years, decades
even, longer that I was, nothing like this was ever presented....and it won't
be. No matter how long you stay there, no matter what they promise you, no
matter what you pay them, they can't teach what they don't know and they simply
don't have access to high level gong fu like this.
>
> I can remember when they brought out their various iron hand programs over the
years. None of them had the internal and body mechanics that are present with
the material I am exposed to now. It's just not there and is not going to be
there. So I ask those who are still in, if skill is what you want, how much
longer are you going to stay, making yourself believe that you can get it there
when year after year goes by and you are not getting it?
>
> Anyway,
>
> the next day I took a trip to a different group and experienced a style that I
have seen but not trained before, by the name of Xin Yi Liu He Chuan. Much
different from the two styles of Xing Yi that I practice, some say the style of
Xin Yi predates Xing Yi, which is a very old internal style in its own right.
This group was taught by a master from Shanghai who was short but very powerful.
He can hit like a truck and was also very agile.
>
> He had me doing the main foundational movement of Xin Yi, the chicken step, or
Ji Bu. There are many requirements to do it right, but once you get it down and
build the strength that it can give you, you'll have a base to do the rest of
the style well. But it is in no way easy. Walking the chicken step is like a
linear low basin bagua walk. The class was two hours and that was nearly all I
was doing. Once I got the technique down enough I would do a few times up and
down the room and then take a break and then hit it again. Needless to say, I
had a serious case of DOMS (delayed onset of muscle soreness) in the following
days after class.
>
> Several of the students there are older and don't really train the forms hard
so the teacher was happy with me--I could hang with how he wanted me to move and
showed that I already had a good foundation. Towards the end he showed me the
other two foundation movements (which still have the requirements of the chicken
step) plus their method of standing chi gong (as you may have guessed, it's a
low stance).
>
> Here's a clip of the master doing a form you get the fundamentals:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abzr3Y3ChFk
>
>
> The class was excellent and I have some good foundational skills to practice.
I was very warmly received by that teacher and his group and was welcomed to
come back anytime. He encouraged me to practice and said "welcome to the class".
It was very touching to me as this man was very generous and basically sees me
as one of his students now.
>
> Later that day I was also going train back with Dale, this time in his group
class that he teaches in a school in Chinatown. That right there was a mini
dream come true, to train some old school gong fu in Chinatown. Well, the school
was a mix of the new and the old, but the skills were old school enough and it
was a very informative class. The first hour we did combat applications from his
style of bagua (Jiulong) and the next hour was all about Shuai Jiao (traditional
Chinese wrestling).
>
> We did some shuai jiao drills, which are very similar to other styles of gong
fu (which is why some believe that many styles have shuai jiao as a base). Then
we stepped into the ring that the school has to work on the throws. Dale teaches
combat shuai, not the sport version, so there were all kinds of useful combat
applications and principles to play with and consider. Things like how to get a
person off of their balance and so forth. The skills taught from the iron palm
body mechanics and the bagua we went over all worked well together, as someone
skilled with all that could deliver a short strike to momentarily stun (or even
hurt) someone which would then set up for the throw.
>
> After we were all done, I got to play around with the sets of kettlebells that
were in the school's weight room. Very fun to do, as of yet I don't have many
sets of two of the same size bells to do the various double drills and lifts.
>
> My teacher and I then went down to get some Chinese food, and I mean real
Chinese food in the heart of Chinatown. Not fancy but I couldn't help but feel
like I was in a movie, sitting in a restaurant, drinking tea, eating frog,
talking gong fu.
>
> That was it for my training trip. Hope to be able to make a similar trip next
year. Great to see my old teachers once again and make a new one. The skills are
out there. All you have to do is go find them and then practice hard.
>

Chris, you got me jealous!

Learning gong fu, eating Chinese food, drinking tea in Chinatown...must have
been a great experience.

--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@...> wrote:
>
> Was home for the Thanksgiving holiday recently--so great to see old friends
and family. Had lots of martial arts training as well. For that, I would like to
give a little run down about how my training went. Will give some an idea on
what I was up to plus give some people out there an idea on how life outside of
the OYD fish tank really is.
>
> Seeing my old gong fu teacher for two lessons was great. Just like old times.
This year he's been teaching Liu style bagua so after the xing yi we would go
through those forms and then work on a particular part of one of the sets. What
was interesting about some of the skills presented is that you really need to
know how to use the right connections in the body and direct the mind to the
right place to make the skill work. You can't make it work by relying on
physical strength...or what you think the movement should be. Can't say I got
that down on those yet but it is something to play with.
>
> Some of the other Liu style applications from the forms were more familiar to
me as those have been presented before at other times, things like set up for
the planting punch, and were some great fighting applications to revisit.
>
> Got to see one of my classmates' school as well. As posted on here before, he
recently opened his own school in Pgh to teach and host classes. We did a lot of
comparison of weapons forms and other skills.
>
> That was mainly it for Pgh. Then I spent a few more days in Boston with the
purpose to train with some people I know there. In terms of martial arts, this
was the heart of my trip.
>
> Firstly, I was able to meet with my Iron Palm teacher, Dale Dugas
(www.bostonbaguazhang.com he has THE best iron palm and injury herbs I have ever
used) to learn his advanced iron palm material. It is no exaggeration to say
that this kind of material is profound. His advanced practices are very
internal, teach how to move the energy in the body up through the center line
and down to the palms, and train striking by mainly using the body. With the
focus on these subtle movements of the waist and spine, and when you start to
really refine the technique you don't look like you are moving much, you are
able to hit with your whole body from a short distance away.
>
> This is going to take some time to get this down but I've been practicing his
program for years now and am glad to get the really advanced stuff. I also got
some pointers on the internal iron vest set that I learned before from him.
Along with that, we spent some time on push hands, some Southern Mantis combat
applications and techniques to strengthen and develop the arms and grip.
>
> I didn't really want to make this post being about a comparison between what
I'm learning now and OYD (not that there's anything wrong with a comparison, but
it's just pretty self evident by now for anyone who has been out for a length of
time) but I do have to say that this kind of material is not and will not be
found in OYD. Ever. This is the point I want to make about it: having trained in
OYD for 11 years, and having known people who were in OYD for years, decades
even, longer that I was, nothing like this was ever presented....and it won't
be. No matter how long you stay there, no matter what they promise you, no
matter what you pay them, they can't teach what they don't know and they simply
don't have access to high level gong fu like this.
>
> I can remember when they brought out their various iron hand programs over the
years. None of them had the internal and body mechanics that are present with
the material I am exposed to now. It's just not there and is not going to be
there. So I ask those who are still in, if skill is what you want, how much
longer are you going to stay, making yourself believe that you can get it there
when year after year goes by and you are not getting it?
>
> Anyway,
>
> the next day I took a trip to a different group and experienced a style that I
have seen but not trained before, by the name of Xin Yi Liu He Chuan. Much
different from the two styles of Xing Yi that I practice, some say the style of
Xin Yi predates Xing Yi, which is a very old internal style in its own right.
This group was taught by a master from Shanghai who was short but very powerful.
He can hit like a truck and was also very agile.
>
> He had me doing the main foundational movement of Xin Yi, the chicken step, or
Ji Bu. There are many requirements to do it right, but once you get it down and
build the strength that it can give you, you'll have a base to do the rest of
the style well. But it is in no way easy. Walking the chicken step is like a
linear low basin bagua walk. The class was two hours and that was nearly all I
was doing. Once I got the technique down enough I would do a few times up and
down the room and then take a break and then hit it again. Needless to say, I
had a serious case of DOMS (delayed onset of muscle soreness) in the following
days after class.
>
> Several of the students there are older and don't really train the forms hard
so the teacher was happy with me--I could hang with how he wanted me to move and
showed that I already had a good foundation. Towards the end he showed me the
other two foundation movements (which still have the requirements of the chicken
step) plus their method of standing chi gong (as you may have guessed, it's a
low stance).
>
> Here's a clip of the master doing a form you get the fundamentals:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abzr3Y3ChFk
>
>
> The class was excellent and I have some good foundational skills to practice.
I was very warmly received by that teacher and his group and was welcomed to
come back anytime. He encouraged me to practice and said "welcome to the class".
It was very touching to me as this man was very generous and basically sees me
as one of his students now.
>
> Later that day I was also going train back with Dale, this time in his group
class that he teaches in a school in Chinatown. That right there was a mini
dream come true, to train some old school gong fu in Chinatown. Well, the school
was a mix of the new and the old, but the skills were old school enough and it
was a very informative class. The first hour we did combat applications from his
style of bagua (Jiulong) and the next hour was all about Shuai Jiao (traditional
Chinese wrestling).
>
> We did some shuai jiao drills, which are very similar to other styles of gong
fu (which is why some believe that many styles have shuai jiao as a base). Then
we stepped into the ring that the school has to work on the throws. Dale teaches
combat shuai, not the sport version, so there were all kinds of useful combat
applications and principles to play with and consider. Things like how to get a
person off of their balance and so forth. The skills taught from the iron palm
body mechanics and the bagua we went over all worked well together, as someone
skilled with all that could deliver a short strike to momentarily stun (or even
hurt) someone which would then set up for the throw.
>
> After we were all done, I got to play around with the sets of kettlebells that
were in the school's weight room. Very fun to do, as of yet I don't have many
sets of two of the same size bells to do the various double drills and lifts.
>
> My teacher and I then went down to get some Chinese food, and I mean real
Chinese food in the heart of Chinatown. Not fancy but I couldn't help but feel
like I was in a movie, sitting in a restaurant, drinking tea, eating frog,
talking gong fu.
>
> That was it for my training trip. Hope to be able to make a similar trip next
year. Great to see my old teachers once again and make a new one. The skills are
out there. All you have to do is go find them and then practice hard.
>

Was home for the Thanksgiving holiday recently--so great to see old friends and
family. Had lots of martial arts training as well. For that, I would like to
give a little run down about how my training went. Will give some an idea on
what I was up to plus give some people out there an idea on how life outside of
the OYD fish tank really is.

Seeing my old gong fu teacher for two lessons was great. Just like old times.
This year he's been teaching Liu style bagua so after the xing yi we would go
through those forms and then work on a particular part of one of the sets. What
was interesting about some of the skills presented is that you really need to
know how to use the right connections in the body and direct the mind to the
right place to make the skill work. You can't make it work by relying on
physical strength...or what you think the movement should be. Can't say I got
that down on those yet but it is something to play with.

Some of the other Liu style applications from the forms were more familiar to me
as those have been presented before at other times, things like set up for the
planting punch, and were some great fighting applications to revisit.

Got to see one of my classmates' school as well. As posted on here before, he
recently opened his own school in Pgh to teach and host classes. We did a lot of
comparison of weapons forms and other skills.

That was mainly it for Pgh. Then I spent a few more days in Boston with the
purpose to train with some people I know there. In terms of martial arts, this
was the heart of my trip.

Firstly, I was able to meet with my Iron Palm teacher, Dale Dugas
(www.bostonbaguazhang.com he has THE best iron palm and injury herbs I have ever
used) to learn his advanced iron palm material. It is no exaggeration to say
that this kind of material is profound. His advanced practices are very
internal, teach how to move the energy in the body up through the center line
and down to the palms, and train striking by mainly using the body. With the
focus on these subtle movements of the waist and spine, and when you start to
really refine the technique you don't look like you are moving much, you are
able to hit with your whole body from a short distance away.

This is going to take some time to get this down but I've been practicing his
program for years now and am glad to get the really advanced stuff. I also got
some pointers on the internal iron vest set that I learned before from him.
Along with that, we spent some time on push hands, some Southern Mantis combat
applications and techniques to strengthen and develop the arms and grip.

I didn't really want to make this post being about a comparison between what I'm
learning now and OYD (not that there's anything wrong with a comparison, but
it's just pretty self evident by now for anyone who has been out for a length of
time) but I do have to say that this kind of material is not and will not be
found in OYD. Ever. This is the point I want to make about it: having trained in
OYD for 11 years, and having known people who were in OYD for years, decades
even, longer that I was, nothing like this was ever presented....and it won't
be. No matter how long you stay there, no matter what they promise you, no
matter what you pay them, they can't teach what they don't know and they simply
don't have access to high level gong fu like this.

I can remember when they brought out their various iron hand programs over the
years. None of them had the internal and body mechanics that are present with
the material I am exposed to now. It's just not there and is not going to be
there. So I ask those who are still in, if skill is what you want, how much
longer are you going to stay, making yourself believe that you can get it there
when year after year goes by and you are not getting it?

Anyway,

the next day I took a trip to a different group and experienced a style that I
have seen but not trained before, by the name of Xin Yi Liu He Chuan. Much
different from the two styles of Xing Yi that I practice, some say the style of
Xin Yi predates Xing Yi, which is a very old internal style in its own right.
This group was taught by a master from Shanghai who was short but very powerful.
He can hit like a truck and was also very agile.

He had me doing the main foundational movement of Xin Yi, the chicken step, or
Ji Bu. There are many requirements to do it right, but once you get it down and
build the strength that it can give you, you'll have a base to do the rest of
the style well. But it is in no way easy. Walking the chicken step is like a
linear low basin bagua walk. The class was two hours and that was nearly all I
was doing. Once I got the technique down enough I would do a few times up and
down the room and then take a break and then hit it again. Needless to say, I
had a serious case of DOMS (delayed onset of muscle soreness) in the following
days after class.

Several of the students there are older and don't really train the forms hard so
the teacher was happy with me--I could hang with how he wanted me to move and
showed that I already had a good foundation. Towards the end he showed me the
other two foundation movements (which still have the requirements of the chicken
step) plus their method of standing chi gong (as you may have guessed, it's a
low stance).

Here's a clip of the master doing a form you get the fundamentals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abzr3Y3ChFk


The class was excellent and I have some good foundational skills to practice. I
was very warmly received by that teacher and his group and was welcomed to come
back anytime. He encouraged me to practice and said "welcome to the class". It
was very touching to me as this man was very generous and basically sees me as
one of his students now.

Later that day I was also going train back with Dale, this time in his group
class that he teaches in a school in Chinatown. That right there was a mini
dream come true, to train some old school gong fu in Chinatown. Well, the school
was a mix of the new and the old, but the skills were old school enough and it
was a very informative class. The first hour we did combat applications from his
style of bagua (Jiulong) and the next hour was all about Shuai Jiao (traditional
Chinese wrestling).

We did some shuai jiao drills, which are very similar to other styles of gong fu
(which is why some believe that many styles have shuai jiao as a base). Then we
stepped into the ring that the school has to work on the throws. Dale teaches
combat shuai, not the sport version, so there were all kinds of useful combat
applications and principles to play with and consider. Things like how to get a
person off of their balance and so forth. The skills taught from the iron palm
body mechanics and the bagua we went over all worked well together, as someone
skilled with all that could deliver a short strike to momentarily stun (or even
hurt) someone which would then set up for the throw.

After we were all done, I got to play around with the sets of kettlebells that
were in the school's weight room. Very fun to do, as of yet I don't have many
sets of two of the same size bells to do the various double drills and lifts.

My teacher and I then went down to get some Chinese food, and I mean real
Chinese food in the heart of Chinatown. Not fancy but I couldn't help but feel
like I was in a movie, sitting in a restaurant, drinking tea, eating frog,
talking gong fu.

That was it for my training trip. Hope to be able to make a similar trip next
year. Great to see my old teachers once again and make a new one. The skills are
out there. All you have to do is go find them and then practice hard.

Interesting thread.

I would love to see a "traditional martial artist" compete and win.

That said it's funny how when confronted with a real situation you resort to
what you know will work. Even though in my youth I threw a thousand side kicks
in the class room, never once did use one in a real fight. I did however use a
wresteling take down that I learned when I was like 8 yrs old with great
success. Why the wresteling move? Because all thru grade school (where let's
face it you can make mistakes and not get hurt) it worked every time. So come my
early adult years, as long as they didn't have friends standing by to stomp my
head in, I used it. Once on the ground whoever could stand up first won the
fight via. stomping variouse body parts of their opponent.
Real experience is key.
MMA guys train as close to real combat more than most, hence the injuries they
suffer throughout their training. Hell, forget the broken bones, just look at
their ears.

Not only that but conditioning plays a huge factor. You can know all the
"special moves" in the world, but if you can't spar/fight full go for at least 3
min. chances are you will lose. (if you don't believe me try it some time. 3
mins solid, no hand shakes, no conversation, no oh wait a second,  just pound
pound pound in a pure competitive nature.)
Of course that being said, I'm sure most on this forum have already BTDT... can
the OYD students say the same?


--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, cjim63 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> It is interesting to note how this discussion is going. I certainly don't
consider myself to be more knowledgeable than anyone else here on martial arts,
but I do enjoy keeping up with MMA so I thought I might comment.
>
> For example, while blows to the back of the head are illegal in the UFC, I
don't think blows to the back are. Also, there have been very successful MMA
organizations that were a lot looser on rules than the UFC. For example, in
PRIDE it was entirely legal to kick someone on the ground, and a lot of people
got quite good at stomping people in the face.
>
> Another interesting thing is that while many MMA fighters do practice Jiujitsu
or wrestling, many of the really good fighters right now actually tend to focus
on strikes or "ground and pound". For example, Fedor Emelianenko - a gentleman
who is generally regarded as possible the best pound for pound fighter ever in
MMA - is an accomplished Sambo fighter, but is best known for his ground and
pound fighting. Another one, Wanderlei Silva (a black belt in BJJ) won 2/3 of
his fights by KO.
>
> Another interesting thing to note is that the best fighters tend to be in
their 30s - not in their 20s, unlike many other sports.
>
>
> Anyways, I don't know why more Tai Chi fighters don't make it into MMA.
However, I do know that unlike the hot-headed bruisers going around wearing
Tap-out shirts and what not, the best MMA champions tend to be older, more
experienced, and smarter than some of us might expect.
>
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@> wrote:
> >
> > LOL. I think you better read my post again.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Another interesting observation:  A young friend of mine, an ex college
wrestler who is really into MMA competition (at a low-level of course), told me
he really likes to use the old double-leg takedown.  I told him if he tried that
on me, I would just elbow him directly in the spine and possibly cripple him. 
He responded that that is against the rules.  But, again, he is not a
world-class MMA competitor.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My stance on this is in agreement with much of what has been said so far
but with some differences: Mainly, the vast majority people who train
traditional martial arts do not train hard enough and do not train realistically
enough to make a good showing of themselves in the ring. Not thinking of anyone
in particular here, but just saying that those who say they are training just
for self defense are fooling themselves if they think their "self defense moves"
are going to work in a real situation if sufficient realism is not trained.
> > > >
> > > > Think about it, if you cannot beat an MMA fighter with rules in the
ring, why exactly do some believe that their deadly skills will work when BOTH
parties are fighting WITHOUT rules? It's not about styles, it's about who
fights, who trains hard and realistic. And, if we are talking about an attack on
the street, you'll usually be facing multiple opponents, so either party, the
Brazilian jujitsu MMA fighter and the gong fu practitioner will be hard pressed
to come out of that one unscathed. Like it has been stated already, submission
attempts end real quick when the guy's buddies stomp your head in.
> > > >
> > > > At the same time, I always find it funny just how insecure some
traditional martial arts practitioners get when the topic of MMA comes up. Some
either take the "i'm too deadly/i'm just interested in self defense" way out or
play the "i'm not interested/i'm too enlightened" cop out. Most people would
lose, not because of problems in their style or lack of jujitsu ground game but
simply because they do not fight and are unwilling to train as a fighter and
adapt to conditions for that combat-sport.
> > > >
> > > > That said, there are plenty of old school masters who would mop the
floor with most pro fighters in a no rules fight. They are scary in their gong
fu skill but teach it that way, not in a combat-sport way, and they (at least
the ones that I know) have no inclination to go fight in a cage. They have
families, businesses to run and gong fu classes to teach. It's a matter of
priority.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, John L <wuxiayi@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Taichi and its sister arts were designed to be used by soldiers and
> > > > > bodyguards to effectively and quickly dispatch opponents in a lethal
fight.
> > > > > As an example, shuai chaio techniques incorporated into these arts are
> > > > > designed to throw an opponent to the ground and quickly strike or
impale
> > > > > them with a weapon. You then move on to your next victim.  An
outgrowth of
> > > > > this are the leitei fights where the winner would throw the loser off
an
> > > > > elevated platform.  It is assumed that if your were thrown to the
ground,
> > > > > you lost.  If you were on your back or on the ground, it would be
nearly
> > > > > impossible defend yourself against a weapon wielding opponent.  Are
you
> > > > > going to try to do a triangle choke from your back on some guy trying
to
> > > > > impale you with a jian?
> > > > > The concept of rolling around on the ground or sparring for 5 minutes
in a
> > > > > real fight is ridiculous.  It is over in a few seconds.  In fact I
know a
> > > > > shuai chiao guy who accepts open challenges from all comers, including
> > > > > jiujitsu guys, but the caveat is that if you're rolling around trying
a
> > > > > submission and you're taking longer than 10 seconds, the other people
in the
> > > > > room get to start kicking your head in.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, jonquan26 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe someone can explain something to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how
come
> > > > > > the ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really
anything
> > > > > > like it. They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant
knowledge.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

I just watched the "Polar Express" with my boy's.  I think there is more
evidence to support the existence of Santa Clause, then there is supporting John
C. Kim as champion of all Asia or any of the stories in the "Master Key to
Wisdom."

Villa Park

--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker <scottwalker99@...>
wrote:
>
> I just can't remember the location, could it have been Lombard? My
> memory is too shot for that detail. Are there any guys that remember
> what school location that was? It was definitely a strip center
> though... stores and shops all around...
>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:19 AM, mnkjamai wrote:
>
> > I didn't read the Herding the Moo account, but I grew up with one of
> > Chang's sons, and went to the Lombard school for many years. What
> > shopping mall did this battle take place in (?), because Chang's
> > school was right on Main St. in Lombard. Do you mean the strip mall
> > where the Lombard school was located?
> >
> > Just curious...
> >
> > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker
> > <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Good point. It is unlikely if it WAS Chang (i am not 100% sure can
> > > anyone confirm this?) he clearly would not seem to qualify as a true
> > > Master of any style... One thing I believe is the idea of "hero
> > > worship" towards any Master is probably dangerous. I will say that I
> > > am sorry if you were harrassed by moo students I was one of the
> > lucky
> > > ones that seemed to make a clean break and never had any of that
> > occur
> > > with me. I hope you are able to forgive these former moos and
> > remember
> > > at one point we were all "under that spell" and I guarantee you that
> > > if any of my higher belts told me to call and threaten someone
> > back in
> > > the day I would have done it. I am glad I was never put in that
> > > position and I hope that if anyone here was put into that position
> > he
> > > has the heart to apologize for his actions.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 22, 2009, at 4:28 PM, gr8tlsnr wrote:
> > >
> > > > Your initial comments, about that incident, came across (to me)
> > sort
> > > > of like an Animal House event. That's how I took them. As for
> > > > Chang's Hapkido Academy, a Master?...showing that poor judgment.
> > As
> > > > for John Sharkeys' school, I only thought of his school because of
> > > > how long his school has been around. He has trained outstanding
> > > > students (they've been on TV Documentaries). However, much like
> > the
> > > > current OYD students think that jck is a perfect Master, not all
> > of
> > > > John Sharkeys' students turned out good. A former student opened
> > up
> > > > a Martial Arts School only to be later sent to prison for having
> > sex
> > > > with his underage students. I hope there's no hero worshiping
> > there
> > > > too.
> > > > I know I've changed since Moo-School. I'm guessing all the former
> > > > Moo-Stylers have changed for better. It's has been years since I
> > > > received harassing phone calls (from the former students that I
> > > > recognize on this post). I was always curious about that too. Who
> > > > were they trying to impress?
> > > >
> > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker
> > > > <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Good memories of moo??? are you serious? HELLS NO!!! I had a
> > > > memory of
> > > > > a situation where we were in a real live fight that we more or
> > less
> > > > > won. Of course we had more guys than they did which I am sure
> > had to
> > > > > help... But the overall situation was insane. I went against my
> > > > family
> > > > > lived like a freak in an apartment scared to talk, scared to
> > move 18
> > > > > or 19 years old with no father (I would like to know how many
> > moo
> > > > > instructors had solid relationships with a father. I am guessing
> > > > most
> > > > > were like me no father figure so we looked up to higher belts
> > like
> > > > > fathers.) You ask why did I leave? HA I got a job making what I
> > > > > considered good money back in the day. (Maybe 5-10k per month
> > sales
> > > > > job) my friends at work who were in sales (they were not as good
> > > > as I
> > > > > was at this time) and they drove mercedes or new corvettes
> > dated hot
> > > > > girls and I was driving a piece of shit and bringing down every
> > > > penny
> > > > > i had to school. FInally I decided to open a bank account on the
> > > > > "side" and I started to save money on my own. (can you imagine
> > > > this??)
> > > > > sure enough one of my roommates found my "secret" bank book in
> > the
> > > > > apartment and brought it to my head instructor. I was told to
> > get
> > > > out
> > > > > that I was not "true mind" so at about 22 after nearly 5 years
> > in
> > > > moo
> > > > > I was told to leave. I handed in my gear moved out and never
> > looked
> > > > > back. Once I was out life seemed so easy for me. Money, girls,
> > cars,
> > > > > etc.. all seemed so easy. So in a way I have mixed feelings
> > about
> > > > moo.
> > > > > It turned my life around in a weird sick twisted way and made me
> > > > feel
> > > > > like if i could handle that I could handle anything that life
> > > > threw at
> > > > > me... anyway I honestly feel that the bad one in this whole
> > tragic
> > > > > comedy is JCK and every person under him was just that a pawn
> > in his
> > > > > twisted mind. I do not feel bad feelings to any instructors that
> > > > were
> > > > > above me nor would I feel anything bad towards anyone that
> > came up
> > > > > after me. I feel a kinship with everyone who was in and got
> > out. It
> > > > > has been 25 years I am nearly 50 years old now and I am here
> > pouring
> > > > > out my innermost feelings to hundreds of people I have never met
> > > > > because of this. Why is Kim still in business? His mental
> > control
> > > > over
> > > > > people is powerful my friend. Chang or any other martial arts
> > > > school I
> > > > > am sure has positive things to provide to students regardless of
> > > > > whether or not he lost or won a fight on any given night....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Nov 21, 2009, at 8:27 PM, gr8tlsnr wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > It seems you have good memories of Moo-Style. I'd say it even
> > > > worked
> > > > > > (Martial Arts part) for you. Given that, why did you leave?
> > I mean
> > > > > > you were clearly a part of perhaps one of the only things
> > the Moo-
> > > > > > Style could brag about (that could be validated as real). That
> > > > said,
> > > > > > I'm still curious as to why Kim is still in business? Come to
> > > > think
> > > > > > of it, how come Changs' Hapkido Academy is still in business?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker
> > > > > > <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here is what I remember from that day. I came into school 7
> > > > and was
> > > > > > > told that something was up at another school and to go down
> > > > there
> > > > > > > immediately. I got in the car with Jim Brocheck and when we
> > > > arrived
> > > > > > > nothing was going down yet. Paul Furio was in the office
> > on the
> > > > > > phone
> > > > > > > and you could tell someting was up. We had our uniforms on
> > and
> > > > we
> > > > > > were
> > > > > > > standing in the waiting room. Bill and I were there with Jim
> > > > and a
> > > > > > > bunch of other guys. Paul came out and told us he got a call
> > > > from a
> > > > > > > local "dingy" who threatened him and was going to come
> > down to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > school and beat him up. (from what I hear our guys were
> > > > passing out
> > > > > > > flyers all around his school and he asked them to stop
> > several
> > > > times
> > > > > > > and finally freaked out and called Paul) I was like "wow
> > we are
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > to get involved in a gang fight with another martial arts
> > > > school" we
> > > > > > > were all pretty fired up. I am trying to remember everyone's
> > > > rank at
> > > > > > > the time. If memory serves Paul was 2nd or 3rd degree and
> > > > highest
> > > > > > belt
> > > > > > > there. I think Bill and I were 6th section but maybe we
> > were 1st
> > > > > > > degree... anyway there were lessons going on with the lower
> > > > belts in
> > > > > > > the main practice area. Suddenly we see a group of guys
> > walking
> > > > > > > towards the door. I hear Paul on the phone scream "HERE THEY
> > > > > > COME!" (I
> > > > > > > am guessing he was speaking to Forrest) one of the students
> > > > pulls
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > door open and in steps Master Chang (I am pretty sure Chang
> > > > Hapkido)
> > > > > > > We are all standing there lined up and suddenly Paul comes
> > > > flying
> > > > > > out
> > > > > > > of the office and he throws a straight right hand side punch
> > > > to the
> > > > > > > face and follows up with an over the top right hand chop
> > to the
> > > > > > > collarbone of Chang. after that all hell breaks loose a
> > few of
> > > > their
> > > > > > > guys charge in and we all start attacking them. within a few
> > > > seconds
> > > > > > > we hear Paul say "get them out of here" and we all just
> > push,
> > > > punch,
> > > > > > > kick whatever everyone outside into the parking lot. from
> > there
> > > > > > comes
> > > > > > > one of the most memorable moments of my life. I can still
> > > > remember
> > > > > > > this like it happened yesterday. There are about 25 guys
> > or so
> > > > > > total I
> > > > > > > am guessing we have them outnumbered maybe 15 or so of us
> > and
> > > > 10 of
> > > > > > > them. (my rough guess) Anyway I am standing next to Bill
> > in the
> > > > > > > parking lot and one guy gets into some type of Kata form and
> > > > starts
> > > > > > > screaming Bill and I look at each other smile and just jump
> > > > the guy
> > > > > > > and start pounding him. He goes into turtle mode and we all
> > > > run back
> > > > > > > into the school. Next thing I know Paul hands us all
> > Machete's
> > > > (what
> > > > > > > are those swords called again?) and we run out with the
> > swords
> > > > into
> > > > > > > the parking lot looking to have them scatter which is
> > exactly
> > > > what
> > > > > > > happened. After their group scatters we run back and put the
> > > > swords
> > > > > > > away. Now it is like 15 minutes and things are seemingly
> > calming
> > > > > > down.
> > > > > > > SUddenly Sante pulls up in his car and screetches to a halt.
> > > > about
> > > > > > > another half dozen guys pile out. I see Chang standing in
> > the
> > > > middle
> > > > > > > of the parking lot bruised, bleeding and looking very
> > dazed and
> > > > > > > confused. Sante walks up to him and screams "get out of
> > here"
> > > > Chang
> > > > > > > doesnt move so Sante just punches him in the face and he
> > goes
> > > > down.
> > > > > > > From there everyone comes back into the school. Next come
> > the
> > > > cops,
> > > > > > > ambulances, etc... (Can you imagine this whole scene
> > occurred
> > > > in the
> > > > > > > middle of a suburban shopping mall) Later that night we
> > are all
> > > > > > > hanging out when Forrest comes and basically tells everyone
> > > > good job
> > > > > > > protecting the school. I will never forget that night. We
> > were
> > > > very
> > > > > > > proud of ourselves and we really thought we were the
> > shit... Of
> > > > > > course
> > > > > > > we did outnumber their guys and we were on our "home turf"
> > It
> > > > > > > obviously could have been different at their place... I do
> > not
> > > > know
> > > > > > > anything about Forrest getting beat up. I was gone before
> > any of
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > happened...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Scott
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2009, at 9:54 AM, gr8tlsnr wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I thought I read in the book "Herding the Moo" that a
> > local
> > > > > > Martial
> > > > > > > > Arts Master threatened Kim at a parking lot because his
> > > > students
> > > > > > > > were harassing his students. Is that true? If so, who
> > > > exactly was
> > > > > > > > the Martial Arts Teacher/Master.
> > > > > > > > I had thought it may have been Master Chang from Chang's
> > > > Hapkido
> > > > > > > > Acadamy. Maybe it was Master John Sharkey from Sharkeys
> > Karate
> > > > > > Studio?
> > > > > > > > It has always puzzled me how Kim gets away with all of
> > this. I
> > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > the Moo-Style Instructors ganged up and beat up Forest.
> > Why
> > > > did
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > never gang up and beat up Kim?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

It is interesting to note how this discussion is going. I certainly don't
consider myself to be more knowledgeable than anyone else here on martial arts,
but I do enjoy keeping up with MMA so I thought I might comment.

For example, while blows to the back of the head are illegal in the UFC, I don't
think blows to the back are. Also, there have been very successful MMA
organizations that were a lot looser on rules than the UFC. For example, in
PRIDE it was entirely legal to kick someone on the ground, and a lot of people
got quite good at stomping people in the face.

Another interesting thing is that while many MMA fighters do practice Jiujitsu
or wrestling, many of the really good fighters right now actually tend to focus
on strikes or "ground and pound". For example, Fedor Emelianenko - a gentleman
who is generally regarded as possible the best pound for pound fighter ever in
MMA - is an accomplished Sambo fighter, but is best known for his ground and
pound fighting. Another one, Wanderlei Silva (a black belt in BJJ) won 2/3 of
his fights by KO.

Another interesting thing to note is that the best fighters tend to be in their
30s - not in their 20s, unlike many other sports.


Anyways, I don't know why more Tai Chi fighters don't make it into MMA. However,
I do know that unlike the hot-headed bruisers going around wearing Tap-out
shirts and what not, the best MMA champions tend to be older, more experienced,
and smarter than some of us might expect.


--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@...> wrote:
>
> LOL. I think you better read my post again.
>
>
>
>
> Another interesting observation:  A young friend of mine, an ex college
wrestler who is really into MMA competition (at a low-level of course), told me
he really likes to use the old double-leg takedown.  I told him if he tried that
on me, I would just elbow him directly in the spine and possibly cripple him. 
He responded that that is against the rules.  But, again, he is not a
world-class MMA competitor.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > My stance on this is in agreement with much of what has been said so far
but with some differences: Mainly, the vast majority people who train
traditional martial arts do not train hard enough and do not train realistically
enough to make a good showing of themselves in the ring. Not thinking of anyone
in particular here, but just saying that those who say they are training just
for self defense are fooling themselves if they think their "self defense moves"
are going to work in a real situation if sufficient realism is not trained.
> > >
> > > Think about it, if you cannot beat an MMA fighter with rules in the ring,
why exactly do some believe that their deadly skills will work when BOTH parties
are fighting WITHOUT rules? It's not about styles, it's about who fights, who
trains hard and realistic. And, if we are talking about an attack on the street,
you'll usually be facing multiple opponents, so either party, the Brazilian
jujitsu MMA fighter and the gong fu practitioner will be hard pressed to come
out of that one unscathed. Like it has been stated already, submission attempts
end real quick when the guy's buddies stomp your head in.
> > >
> > > At the same time, I always find it funny just how insecure some
traditional martial arts practitioners get when the topic of MMA comes up. Some
either take the "i'm too deadly/i'm just interested in self defense" way out or
play the "i'm not interested/i'm too enlightened" cop out. Most people would
lose, not because of problems in their style or lack of jujitsu ground game but
simply because they do not fight and are unwilling to train as a fighter and
adapt to conditions for that combat-sport.
> > >
> > > That said, there are plenty of old school masters who would mop the floor
with most pro fighters in a no rules fight. They are scary in their gong fu
skill but teach it that way, not in a combat-sport way, and they (at least the
ones that I know) have no inclination to go fight in a cage. They have families,
businesses to run and gong fu classes to teach. It's a matter of priority.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, John L <wuxiayi@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Taichi and its sister arts were designed to be used by soldiers and
> > > > bodyguards to effectively and quickly dispatch opponents in a lethal
fight.
> > > > As an example, shuai chaio techniques incorporated into these arts are
> > > > designed to throw an opponent to the ground and quickly strike or impale
> > > > them with a weapon. You then move on to your next victim.  An outgrowth
of
> > > > this are the leitei fights where the winner would throw the loser off an
> > > > elevated platform.  It is assumed that if your were thrown to the
ground,
> > > > you lost.  If you were on your back or on the ground, it would be nearly
> > > > impossible defend yourself against a weapon wielding opponent.  Are you
> > > > going to try to do a triangle choke from your back on some guy trying to
> > > > impale you with a jian?
> > > > The concept of rolling around on the ground or sparring for 5 minutes in
a
> > > > real fight is ridiculous.  It is over in a few seconds.  In fact I know
a
> > > > shuai chiao guy who accepts open challenges from all comers, including
> > > > jiujitsu guys, but the caveat is that if you're rolling around trying a
> > > > submission and you're taking longer than 10 seconds, the other people in
the
> > > > room get to start kicking your head in.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, jonquan26 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe someone can explain something to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how
come
> > > > > the ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really
anything
> > > > > like it. They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

LOL. I think you better read my post again.




Another interesting observation:  A young friend of mine, an ex college wrestler
who is really into MMA competition (at a low-level of course), told me he really
likes to use the old double-leg takedown.  I told him if he tried that on me, I
would just elbow him directly in the spine and possibly cripple him.  He
responded that that is against the rules.  But, again, he is not a world-class
MMA competitor.
>
>
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@> wrote:
> >
> > My stance on this is in agreement with much of what has been said so far but
with some differences: Mainly, the vast majority people who train traditional
martial arts do not train hard enough and do not train realistically enough to
make a good showing of themselves in the ring. Not thinking of anyone in
particular here, but just saying that those who say they are training just for
self defense are fooling themselves if they think their "self defense moves" are
going to work in a real situation if sufficient realism is not trained.
> >
> > Think about it, if you cannot beat an MMA fighter with rules in the ring,
why exactly do some believe that their deadly skills will work when BOTH parties
are fighting WITHOUT rules? It's not about styles, it's about who fights, who
trains hard and realistic. And, if we are talking about an attack on the street,
you'll usually be facing multiple opponents, so either party, the Brazilian
jujitsu MMA fighter and the gong fu practitioner will be hard pressed to come
out of that one unscathed. Like it has been stated already, submission attempts
end real quick when the guy's buddies stomp your head in.
> >
> > At the same time, I always find it funny just how insecure some traditional
martial arts practitioners get when the topic of MMA comes up. Some either take
the "i'm too deadly/i'm just interested in self defense" way out or play the
"i'm not interested/i'm too enlightened" cop out. Most people would lose, not
because of problems in their style or lack of jujitsu ground game but simply
because they do not fight and are unwilling to train as a fighter and adapt to
conditions for that combat-sport.
> >
> > That said, there are plenty of old school masters who would mop the floor
with most pro fighters in a no rules fight. They are scary in their gong fu
skill but teach it that way, not in a combat-sport way, and they (at least the
ones that I know) have no inclination to go fight in a cage. They have families,
businesses to run and gong fu classes to teach. It's a matter of priority.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, John L <wuxiayi@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Taichi and its sister arts were designed to be used by soldiers and
> > > bodyguards to effectively and quickly dispatch opponents in a lethal
fight.
> > > As an example, shuai chaio techniques incorporated into these arts are
> > > designed to throw an opponent to the ground and quickly strike or impale
> > > them with a weapon. You then move on to your next victim.  An outgrowth of
> > > this are the leitei fights where the winner would throw the loser off an
> > > elevated platform.  It is assumed that if your were thrown to the ground,
> > > you lost.  If you were on your back or on the ground, it would be nearly
> > > impossible defend yourself against a weapon wielding opponent.  Are you
> > > going to try to do a triangle choke from your back on some guy trying to
> > > impale you with a jian?
> > > The concept of rolling around on the ground or sparring for 5 minutes in a
> > > real fight is ridiculous.  It is over in a few seconds.  In fact I know a
> > > shuai chiao guy who accepts open challenges from all comers, including
> > > jiujitsu guys, but the caveat is that if you're rolling around trying a
> > > submission and you're taking longer than 10 seconds, the other people in
the
> > > room get to start kicking your head in.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, jonquan26 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Maybe someone can explain something to me.
> > > >
> > > > I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how come
> > > > the ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really anything
> > > > like it. They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
> > > >
> > > > I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

I have been in that situation.  I worked with a guy that at one time wrestled
for Iowa State.  He was talking all kinds of trash about mu Black Belt in Tang
Soo Do.  His very words were "what can you do if I take out your legs?"  I
explained that I have not had to worry about it so I don't know.  Give it a try.
We circled around a bit and then suddenly went for my legs.  I lift my leg
merely to try to get it out of his way but I ended up kneeing him in the head.
Pretty damn hard too.  I honestly think I was lucky but it worked.


--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, jonquan26 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> I'm unsure of how to defend against a wrestler going for my legs. They  can
very fast.  I don't think I could elbow them in time, and even if I did it
wouldn't be that hard.  So, I don't know about this suggestion.  Any other
thoughts out there about how to defend agains this sort of thing?
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, dp1929dp <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Quite correct.  99% of today's martial artists are busy people, who cannot
dedicate their lives to it.  Look at the distance runners in America.  Millions
of them run races with not the slightest expectation of winning, but, to see
where they are.  Only the few elite runners win the races.  But, millions run
anyway.  The same is true of martial arts.  They train for health, fitness and
self-defense, not necessarily in that order, depending on the individual's
priorities.  They can take certain solace in the fact that, unlike in "Walker,
Texas Ranger", the streets are not filled with criminals who are also highly
trained martial artists.  Someone training for 3 to 8 hours per week, in a
decent school, should be able to handle the typical street-thug.  Maybe even two
on one.
> >
> > Another interesting observation:  A young friend of mine, an ex college
wrestler who is really into MMA competition (at a low-level of course), told me
he really likes to use the old double-leg takedown.  I told him if he tried that
on me, I would just elbow him directly in the spine and possibly cripple him. 
He responded that that is against the rules.  But, again, he is not a
world-class MMA competitor.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > My stance on this is in agreement with much of what has been said so far
but with some differences: Mainly, the vast majority people who train
traditional martial arts do not train hard enough and do not train realistically
enough to make a good showing of themselves in the ring. Not thinking of anyone
in particular here, but just saying that those who say they are training just
for self defense are fooling themselves if they think their "self defense moves"
are going to work in a real situation if sufficient realism is not trained.
> > >
> > > Think about it, if you cannot beat an MMA fighter with rules in the ring,
why exactly do some believe that their deadly skills will work when BOTH parties
are fighting WITHOUT rules? It's not about styles, it's about who fights, who
trains hard and realistic. And, if we are talking about an attack on the street,
you'll usually be facing multiple opponents, so either party, the Brazilian
jujitsu MMA fighter and the gong fu practitioner will be hard pressed to come
out of that one unscathed. Like it has been stated already, submission attempts
end real quick when the guy's buddies stomp your head in.
> > >
> > > At the same time, I always find it funny just how insecure some
traditional martial arts practitioners get when the topic of MMA comes up. Some
either take the "i'm too deadly/i'm just interested in self defense" way out or
play the "i'm not interested/i'm too enlightened" cop out. Most people would
lose, not because of problems in their style or lack of jujitsu ground game but
simply because they do not fight and are unwilling to train as a fighter and
adapt to conditions for that combat-sport.
> > >
> > > That said, there are plenty of old school masters who would mop the floor
with most pro fighters in a no rules fight. They are scary in their gong fu
skill but teach it that way, not in a combat-sport way, and they (at least the
ones that I know) have no inclination to go fight in a cage. They have families,
businesses to run and gong fu classes to teach. It's a matter of priority.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, John L <wuxiayi@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Taichi and its sister arts were designed to be used by soldiers and
> > > > bodyguards to effectively and quickly dispatch opponents in a lethal
fight.
> > > > As an example, shuai chaio techniques incorporated into these arts are
> > > > designed to throw an opponent to the ground and quickly strike or impale
> > > > them with a weapon. You then move on to your next victim.  An outgrowth
of
> > > > this are the leitei fights where the winner would throw the loser off an
> > > > elevated platform.  It is assumed that if your were thrown to the
ground,
> > > > you lost.  If you were on your back or on the ground, it would be nearly
> > > > impossible defend yourself against a weapon wielding opponent.  Are you
> > > > going to try to do a triangle choke from your back on some guy trying to
> > > > impale you with a jian?
> > > > The concept of rolling around on the ground or sparring for 5 minutes in
a
> > > > real fight is ridiculous.  It is over in a few seconds.  In fact I know
a
> > > > shuai chiao guy who accepts open challenges from all comers, including
> > > > jiujitsu guys, but the caveat is that if you're rolling around trying a
> > > > submission and you're taking longer than 10 seconds, the other people in
the
> > > > room get to start kicking your head in.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, jonquan26 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe someone can explain something to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how
come
> > > > > the ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really
anything
> > > > > like it. They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

I'm unsure of how to defend against a wrestler going for my legs. They  can very
fast.  I don't think I could elbow them in time, and even if I did it wouldn't
be that hard.  So, I don't know about this suggestion.  Any other thoughts out
there about how to defend agains this sort of thing?

--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, dp1929dp <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Quite correct.  99% of today's martial artists are busy people, who cannot
dedicate their lives to it.  Look at the distance runners in America.  Millions
of them run races with not the slightest expectation of winning, but, to see
where they are.  Only the few elite runners win the races.  But, millions run
anyway.  The same is true of martial arts.  They train for health, fitness and
self-defense, not necessarily in that order, depending on the individual's
priorities.  They can take certain solace in the fact that, unlike in "Walker,
Texas Ranger", the streets are not filled with criminals who are also highly
trained martial artists.  Someone training for 3 to 8 hours per week, in a
decent school, should be able to handle the typical street-thug.  Maybe even two
on one.
>
> Another interesting observation:  A young friend of mine, an ex college
wrestler who is really into MMA competition (at a low-level of course), told me
he really likes to use the old double-leg takedown.  I told him if he tried that
on me, I would just elbow him directly in the spine and possibly cripple him. 
He responded that that is against the rules.  But, again, he is not a
world-class MMA competitor.
>
>
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@> wrote:
> >
> > My stance on this is in agreement with much of what has been said so far but
with some differences: Mainly, the vast majority people who train traditional
martial arts do not train hard enough and do not train realistically enough to
make a good showing of themselves in the ring. Not thinking of anyone in
particular here, but just saying that those who say they are training just for
self defense are fooling themselves if they think their "self defense moves" are
going to work in a real situation if sufficient realism is not trained.
> >
> > Think about it, if you cannot beat an MMA fighter with rules in the ring,
why exactly do some believe that their deadly skills will work when BOTH parties
are fighting WITHOUT rules? It's not about styles, it's about who fights, who
trains hard and realistic. And, if we are talking about an attack on the street,
you'll usually be facing multiple opponents, so either party, the Brazilian
jujitsu MMA fighter and the gong fu practitioner will be hard pressed to come
out of that one unscathed. Like it has been stated already, submission attempts
end real quick when the guy's buddies stomp your head in.
> >
> > At the same time, I always find it funny just how insecure some traditional
martial arts practitioners get when the topic of MMA comes up. Some either take
the "i'm too deadly/i'm just interested in self defense" way out or play the
"i'm not interested/i'm too enlightened" cop out. Most people would lose, not
because of problems in their style or lack of jujitsu ground game but simply
because they do not fight and are unwilling to train as a fighter and adapt to
conditions for that combat-sport.
> >
> > That said, there are plenty of old school masters who would mop the floor
with most pro fighters in a no rules fight. They are scary in their gong fu
skill but teach it that way, not in a combat-sport way, and they (at least the
ones that I know) have no inclination to go fight in a cage. They have families,
businesses to run and gong fu classes to teach. It's a matter of priority.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, John L <wuxiayi@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Taichi and its sister arts were designed to be used by soldiers and
> > > bodyguards to effectively and quickly dispatch opponents in a lethal
fight.
> > > As an example, shuai chaio techniques incorporated into these arts are
> > > designed to throw an opponent to the ground and quickly strike or impale
> > > them with a weapon. You then move on to your next victim.  An outgrowth of
> > > this are the leitei fights where the winner would throw the loser off an
> > > elevated platform.  It is assumed that if your were thrown to the ground,
> > > you lost.  If you were on your back or on the ground, it would be nearly
> > > impossible defend yourself against a weapon wielding opponent.  Are you
> > > going to try to do a triangle choke from your back on some guy trying to
> > > impale you with a jian?
> > > The concept of rolling around on the ground or sparring for 5 minutes in a
> > > real fight is ridiculous.  It is over in a few seconds.  In fact I know a
> > > shuai chiao guy who accepts open challenges from all comers, including
> > > jiujitsu guys, but the caveat is that if you're rolling around trying a
> > > submission and you're taking longer than 10 seconds, the other people in
the
> > > room get to start kicking your head in.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, jonquan26 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Maybe someone can explain something to me.
> > > >
> > > > I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how come
> > > > the ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really anything
> > > > like it. They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
> > > >
> > > > I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Quite correct.  99% of today's martial artists are busy people, who cannot
dedicate their lives to it.  Look at the distance runners in America.  Millions
of them run races with not the slightest expectation of winning, but, to see
where they are.  Only the few elite runners win the races.  But, millions run
anyway.  The same is true of martial arts.  They train for health, fitness and
self-defense, not necessarily in that order, depending on the individual's
priorities.  They can take certain solace in the fact that, unlike in "Walker,
Texas Ranger", the streets are not filled with criminals who are also highly
trained martial artists.  Someone training for 3 to 8 hours per week, in a
decent school, should be able to handle the typical street-thug.  Maybe even two
on one.

Another interesting observation:  A young friend of mine, an ex college wrestler
who is really into MMA competition (at a low-level of course), told me he really
likes to use the old double-leg takedown.  I told him if he tried that on me, I
would just elbow him directly in the spine and possibly cripple him.  He
responded that that is against the rules.  But, again, he is not a world-class
MMA competitor.



--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@...> wrote:
>
> My stance on this is in agreement with much of what has been said so far but
with some differences: Mainly, the vast majority people who train traditional
martial arts do not train hard enough and do not train realistically enough to
make a good showing of themselves in the ring. Not thinking of anyone in
particular here, but just saying that those who say they are training just for
self defense are fooling themselves if they think their "self defense moves" are
going to work in a real situation if sufficient realism is not trained.
>
> Think about it, if you cannot beat an MMA fighter with rules in the ring, why
exactly do some believe that their deadly skills will work when BOTH parties are
fighting WITHOUT rules? It's not about styles, it's about who fights, who trains
hard and realistic. And, if we are talking about an attack on the street, you'll
usually be facing multiple opponents, so either party, the Brazilian jujitsu MMA
fighter and the gong fu practitioner will be hard pressed to come out of that
one unscathed. Like it has been stated already, submission attempts end real
quick when the guy's buddies stomp your head in.
>
> At the same time, I always find it funny just how insecure some traditional
martial arts practitioners get when the topic of MMA comes up. Some either take
the "i'm too deadly/i'm just interested in self defense" way out or play the
"i'm not interested/i'm too enlightened" cop out. Most people would lose, not
because of problems in their style or lack of jujitsu ground game but simply
because they do not fight and are unwilling to train as a fighter and adapt to
conditions for that combat-sport.
>
> That said, there are plenty of old school masters who would mop the floor with
most pro fighters in a no rules fight. They are scary in their gong fu skill but
teach it that way, not in a combat-sport way, and they (at least the ones that I
know) have no inclination to go fight in a cage. They have families, businesses
to run and gong fu classes to teach. It's a matter of priority.
>
>
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, John L <wuxiayi@> wrote:
> >
> > Taichi and its sister arts were designed to be used by soldiers and
> > bodyguards to effectively and quickly dispatch opponents in a lethal fight.
> > As an example, shuai chaio techniques incorporated into these arts are
> > designed to throw an opponent to the ground and quickly strike or impale
> > them with a weapon. You then move on to your next victim.  An outgrowth of
> > this are the leitei fights where the winner would throw the loser off an
> > elevated platform.  It is assumed that if your were thrown to the ground,
> > you lost.  If you were on your back or on the ground, it would be nearly
> > impossible defend yourself against a weapon wielding opponent.  Are you
> > going to try to do a triangle choke from your back on some guy trying to
> > impale you with a jian?
> > The concept of rolling around on the ground or sparring for 5 minutes in a
> > real fight is ridiculous.  It is over in a few seconds.  In fact I know a
> > shuai chiao guy who accepts open challenges from all comers, including
> > jiujitsu guys, but the caveat is that if you're rolling around trying a
> > submission and you're taking longer than 10 seconds, the other people in the
> > room get to start kicking your head in.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, jonquan26 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Maybe someone can explain something to me.
> > >
> > > I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how come
> > > the ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really anything
> > > like it. They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
> > >
> > > I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Hey thanks. It was good to see you there on the first week of my trip. I'll be
doing a write up of my recent training experiences. Too bad though, no one from
OYD took me up on my challenge!

--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "mnkjamai" <mnkjamai@...> wrote:
>
> Chris, sorry I missed you at the lesson last week.  I hope your trip was good,
and you had a great Thanksgiving.
>
> I went to the Sunday lesson for once...having a baby sure takes time away from
my interests!  Anyway, the Dao form is friggin' awesome, way better than
anything we learned in OYD.  Of course, I'm not surprised by that anymore, but
it was just great to start learning that weapon from a real master.
>
> Again, hope you had a good time here, and take care.
>
> MNK
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@> wrote:
> >
> > My stance on this is in agreement with much of what has been said so far but
with some differences: Mainly, the vast majority people who train traditional
martial arts do not train hard enough and do not train realistically enough to
make a good showing of themselves in the ring. Not thinking of anyone in
particular here, but just saying that those who say they are training just for
self defense are fooling themselves if they think their "self defense moves" are
going to work in a real situation if sufficient realism is not trained.
> >
> > Think about it, if you cannot beat an MMA fighter with rules in the ring,
why exactly do some believe that their deadly skills will work when BOTH parties
are fighting WITHOUT rules? It's not about styles, it's about who fights, who
trains hard and realistic. And, if we are talking about an attack on the street,
you'll usually be facing multiple opponents, so either party, the Brazilian
jujitsu MMA fighter and the gong fu practitioner will be hard pressed to come
out of that one unscathed. Like it has been stated already, submission attempts
end real quick when the guy's buddies stomp your head in.
> >
> > At the same time, I always find it funny just how insecure some traditional
martial arts practitioners get when the topic of MMA comes up. Some either take
the "i'm too deadly/i'm just interested in self defense" way out or play the
"i'm not interested/i'm too enlightened" cop out. Most people would lose, not
because of problems in their style or lack of jujitsu ground game but simply
because they do not fight and are unwilling to train as a fighter and adapt to
conditions for that combat-sport.
> >
> > That said, there are plenty of old school masters who would mop the floor
with most pro fighters in a no rules fight. They are scary in their gong fu
skill but teach it that way, not in a combat-sport way, and they (at least the
ones that I know) have no inclination to go fight in a cage. They have families,
businesses to run and gong fu classes to teach. It's a matter of priority.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, John L <wuxiayi@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Taichi and its sister arts were designed to be used by soldiers and
> > > bodyguards to effectively and quickly dispatch opponents in a lethal
fight.
> > > As an example, shuai chaio techniques incorporated into these arts are
> > > designed to throw an opponent to the ground and quickly strike or impale
> > > them with a weapon. You then move on to your next victim.  An outgrowth of
> > > this are the leitei fights where the winner would throw the loser off an
> > > elevated platform.  It is assumed that if your were thrown to the ground,
> > > you lost.  If you were on your back or on the ground, it would be nearly
> > > impossible defend yourself against a weapon wielding opponent.  Are you
> > > going to try to do a triangle choke from your back on some guy trying to
> > > impale you with a jian?
> > > The concept of rolling around on the ground or sparring for 5 minutes in a
> > > real fight is ridiculous.  It is over in a few seconds.  In fact I know a
> > > shuai chiao guy who accepts open challenges from all comers, including
> > > jiujitsu guys, but the caveat is that if you're rolling around trying a
> > > submission and you're taking longer than 10 seconds, the other people in
the
> > > room get to start kicking your head in.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, jonquan26 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Maybe someone can explain something to me.
> > > >
> > > > I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how come
> > > > the ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really anything
> > > > like it. They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
> > > >
> > > > I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Chris, sorry I missed you at the lesson last week.  I hope your trip was good,
and you had a great Thanksgiving.

I went to the Sunday lesson for once...having a baby sure takes time away from
my interests!  Anyway, the Dao form is friggin' awesome, way better than
anything we learned in OYD.  Of course, I'm not surprised by that anymore, but
it was just great to start learning that weapon from a real master.

Again, hope you had a good time here, and take care.

MNK

--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <onemindonespirit@...> wrote:
>
> My stance on this is in agreement with much of what has been said so far but
with some differences: Mainly, the vast majority people who train traditional
martial arts do not train hard enough and do not train realistically enough to
make a good showing of themselves in the ring. Not thinking of anyone in
particular here, but just saying that those who say they are training just for
self defense are fooling themselves if they think their "self defense moves" are
going to work in a real situation if sufficient realism is not trained.
>
> Think about it, if you cannot beat an MMA fighter with rules in the ring, why
exactly do some believe that their deadly skills will work when BOTH parties are
fighting WITHOUT rules? It's not about styles, it's about who fights, who trains
hard and realistic. And, if we are talking about an attack on the street, you'll
usually be facing multiple opponents, so either party, the Brazilian jujitsu MMA
fighter and the gong fu practitioner will be hard pressed to come out of that
one unscathed. Like it has been stated already, submission attempts end real
quick when the guy's buddies stomp your head in.
>
> At the same time, I always find it funny just how insecure some traditional
martial arts practitioners get when the topic of MMA comes up. Some either take
the "i'm too deadly/i'm just interested in self defense" way out or play the
"i'm not interested/i'm too enlightened" cop out. Most people would lose, not
because of problems in their style or lack of jujitsu ground game but simply
because they do not fight and are unwilling to train as a fighter and adapt to
conditions for that combat-sport.
>
> That said, there are plenty of old school masters who would mop the floor with
most pro fighters in a no rules fight. They are scary in their gong fu skill but
teach it that way, not in a combat-sport way, and they (at least the ones that I
know) have no inclination to go fight in a cage. They have families, businesses
to run and gong fu classes to teach. It's a matter of priority.
>
>
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, John L <wuxiayi@> wrote:
> >
> > Taichi and its sister arts were designed to be used by soldiers and
> > bodyguards to effectively and quickly dispatch opponents in a lethal fight.
> > As an example, shuai chaio techniques incorporated into these arts are
> > designed to throw an opponent to the ground and quickly strike or impale
> > them with a weapon. You then move on to your next victim.  An outgrowth of
> > this are the leitei fights where the winner would throw the loser off an
> > elevated platform.  It is assumed that if your were thrown to the ground,
> > you lost.  If you were on your back or on the ground, it would be nearly
> > impossible defend yourself against a weapon wielding opponent.  Are you
> > going to try to do a triangle choke from your back on some guy trying to
> > impale you with a jian?
> > The concept of rolling around on the ground or sparring for 5 minutes in a
> > real fight is ridiculous.  It is over in a few seconds.  In fact I know a
> > shuai chiao guy who accepts open challenges from all comers, including
> > jiujitsu guys, but the caveat is that if you're rolling around trying a
> > submission and you're taking longer than 10 seconds, the other people in the
> > room get to start kicking your head in.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, jonquan26 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Maybe someone can explain something to me.
> > >
> > > I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how come
> > > the ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really anything
> > > like it. They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
> > >
> > > I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

My stance on this is in agreement with much of what has been said so far but
with some differences: Mainly, the vast majority people who train traditional
martial arts do not train hard enough and do not train realistically enough to
make a good showing of themselves in the ring. Not thinking of anyone in
particular here, but just saying that those who say they are training just for
self defense are fooling themselves if they think their "self defense moves" are
going to work in a real situation if sufficient realism is not trained.

Think about it, if you cannot beat an MMA fighter with rules in the ring, why
exactly do some believe that their deadly skills will work when BOTH parties are
fighting WITHOUT rules? It's not about styles, it's about who fights, who trains
hard and realistic. And, if we are talking about an attack on the street, you'll
usually be facing multiple opponents, so either party, the Brazilian jujitsu MMA
fighter and the gong fu practitioner will be hard pressed to come out of that
one unscathed. Like it has been stated already, submission attempts end real
quick when the guy's buddies stomp your head in.

At the same time, I always find it funny just how insecure some traditional
martial arts practitioners get when the topic of MMA comes up. Some either take
the "i'm too deadly/i'm just interested in self defense" way out or play the
"i'm not interested/i'm too enlightened" cop out. Most people would lose, not
because of problems in their style or lack of jujitsu ground game but simply
because they do not fight and are unwilling to train as a fighter and adapt to
conditions for that combat-sport.

That said, there are plenty of old school masters who would mop the floor with
most pro fighters in a no rules fight. They are scary in their gong fu skill but
teach it that way, not in a combat-sport way, and they (at least the ones that I
know) have no inclination to go fight in a cage. They have families, businesses
to run and gong fu classes to teach. It's a matter of priority.



--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, John L <wuxiayi@...> wrote:
>
> Taichi and its sister arts were designed to be used by soldiers and
> bodyguards to effectively and quickly dispatch opponents in a lethal fight.
> As an example, shuai chaio techniques incorporated into these arts are
> designed to throw an opponent to the ground and quickly strike or impale
> them with a weapon. You then move on to your next victim.  An outgrowth of
> this are the leitei fights where the winner would throw the loser off an
> elevated platform.  It is assumed that if your were thrown to the ground,
> you lost.  If you were on your back or on the ground, it would be nearly
> impossible defend yourself against a weapon wielding opponent.  Are you
> going to try to do a triangle choke from your back on some guy trying to
> impale you with a jian?
> The concept of rolling around on the ground or sparring for 5 minutes in a
> real fight is ridiculous.  It is over in a few seconds.  In fact I know a
> shuai chiao guy who accepts open challenges from all comers, including
> jiujitsu guys, but the caveat is that if you're rolling around trying a
> submission and you're taking longer than 10 seconds, the other people in the
> room get to start kicking your head in.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, jonquan26 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Maybe someone can explain something to me.
> >
> > I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how come
> > the ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really anything
> > like it. They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
> >
> > I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
>

Stopped by the Sonny's BBQ on Red Bug near the Oviedo Marketplace mall this
weekend and noticed a sad little OYD sign in front of the strip mall next door.
It looks like the Winter Springs school has been squeezed into the tiniest
little storefront there next to an abandoned flooring store. They don't even
have a sign over the door, just one on the group directory sign near the road.
The lights were off and nobody was around even though the OPEN sign was up.
Nice.

The Winter Springs sign is still up at the original location, but given how
narrow this new store is--about the width of three doors--they'd have to install
it like so:

OOM
YUNG
(Not enough vertical room for the DOE or Moomaster Kim's logo)

Here's the Google Maps overhead if anyone's interested:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=CYkspTkwhnwEFdgvtQEdIVc\
o-yHzK2QU7jhe2w&q=7505+Red+Bug+Lake+Road,+Oviedo,+FL&sll=28.656465,-81.249862&ss\
pn=0,0&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=7505+Red+Bug+Lake+Rd,+Oviedo,+Seminole,+Florida+32765&m\
rt=rblall&ll=28.651927,-81.242888&spn=0.007946,0.013937&t=h&z=17

Strip mall address: 7505 Red Bug Lake Road, Oviedo, FL

Fact is, traditionalists in Kung Fu & Tai Chi don't think of their martial arts
as a sport.  They spar, and practice competitively to develop their skills. 
But, it's about being able to defend yourself on the streets, not about whether
you can win a trophy.  I am not concerned about whether I can beat Mike Tyson in
the ring with gloves on.  But, if he attacked me in the streets (a real threat
here in Phoenix, since he lives here and has attacked a few people), I want to
be able to handle him.

Those of you who are old enough may remember when Daniel LaRusso said to Mr.
Miyagi, "I thought you said you did a lot a fighting when you were younger". 
The response, "Yes, fight for life, not for points".

Certainly, those who train in Tai Chi long enough to uderstand and utilize it as
a complete self-defense, would be totally indifferent to UFCs.


--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "mnkjamai" <mnkjamai@...> wrote:
>
> Well, a quick answer is that there are not too many GOOD Tai Chi fighters out
there.  It takes many years just to be able to apply any of that stuff, and I
think someone who is younger, likes to pump iron and kick ass in the ring is
gonna try to learn something that is effective and can be applied quickly.
>
> My two cents...I could say more, but I've gotta go out and make some money!
>
> MNK
>
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, jonquan26 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe someone can explain something to me.
> >
> > I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how come the
ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really anything like it.
They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
> >
> > I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
>

Well, a quick answer is that there are not too many GOOD Tai Chi fighters out
there.  It takes many years just to be able to apply any of that stuff, and I
think someone who is younger, likes to pump iron and kick ass in the ring is
gonna try to learn something that is effective and can be applied quickly.

My two cents...I could say more, but I've gotta go out and make some money!

MNK


--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, jonquan26 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe someone can explain something to me.
>
> I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how come the
ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really anything like it.
They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.
>
> I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.
>
> Any thoughts?
>

Maybe someone can explain something to me.

I believe Tai Chi to be an effective fighting style. That said, how come the
ultimate fighting championship guys don't use it--or really anything like it.
They fight like boxers, kickboxers, and wrestlers.

I doubt that they simply don't have access to the relevant knowledge.

Any thoughts?

No, but I think going out and experiencing REAL martial arts teaching has been
the best therapy for me.  I basically just kept going on with my life, over
time, had to remove some of the strange moo behavior I was taught in the Moo
organization.  Not to mention, fixing some of my bad body mechanics, and
learning some principles of martial arts from the beginning.



--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, nanis0218 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
> Congratulations,
> I wonder if you just  left and kept going on with your life or you needed some
therapy or some kind of help besides the love and support of your family
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker <scottwalker99@>
wrote:
> >
> > Happy Anniversary and congratulations to you!
> >
> > On Dec 2, 2009, at 7:15 AM, mnkjamai wrote:
> >
> > > Well?
> > >
> > > I guess this is the 4th anniversary of the week I left OYD for good.
> > >
> > > It was not the nicest of break-ups, and I left very frustrated,
> > > confused and upset that I made the choice to leave, because
> > > actually, I REALLY wanted to stay in some ways.
> > >
> > > Just glad I had a great support group consisting of the wife,
> > > friends and family that helped make it a little easier. Now I am
> > > learning REAL martial arts, from REAL martial artists, and the
> > > training is light years ahead of the junk taught in CMQ/CMD/OYD. My
> > > elbow and knee problems are all gone, FYI.
> > >
> > > Happy Holidays all!
> > >
> > > MNK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Congratulations,
I wonder if you just  left and kept going on with your life or you needed some
therapy or some kind of help besides the love and support of your family

--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker <scottwalker99@...>
wrote:
>
> Happy Anniversary and congratulations to you!
>
> On Dec 2, 2009, at 7:15 AM, mnkjamai wrote:
>
> > Well?
> >
> > I guess this is the 4th anniversary of the week I left OYD for good.
> >
> > It was not the nicest of break-ups, and I left very frustrated,
> > confused and upset that I made the choice to leave, because
> > actually, I REALLY wanted to stay in some ways.
> >
> > Just glad I had a great support group consisting of the wife,
> > friends and family that helped make it a little easier. Now I am
> > learning REAL martial arts, from REAL martial artists, and the
> > training is light years ahead of the junk taught in CMQ/CMD/OYD. My
> > elbow and knee problems are all gone, FYI.
> >
> > Happy Holidays all!
> >
> > MNK
> >
> >
> >
>

Olders?

Yes, he's one of the last few remaining that's been in the organization for at
least 25 years.

I never heard that description before, but it fits.

--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, nanis0218 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Is Frank Hunley one  of the olders??
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, frankperry1998 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Corporation  TRADITIONAL MOO DOE EQUIPMENT   Number: C2287354  Date
> > Filed: 2/11/2002  Status: active   Jurisdiction: California  Address
> > 4907 MORENA BLVD  SUITE 1402  SAN DIEGO, CA 92117   Agent for Service of
> > Process  L. SUE LOFTIN   5760 FLEET STREET   SUITE 110   CARLSBAD, CA
> > 92008
> >
> > Corporation  OOM YUNG DOE, A CALIFORNIA CORPORATION   Number: C2040458
> > Date Filed: 10/6/1998  Status: suspended   Jurisdiction: California
> > Address   7514 GRAND AVE STE F  LA JOLLA, CA 92037   Agent for Service
> > of Process  THOMAS WHITE   4965 VIA PAPEL   SAN DIEGO, CA 92122
> >
> > LP/LLC  JADIENCE LLC   Number: 200904310006  Date Filed: 2/6/2009
> > Status: active  Jurisdiction: CALIFORNIA   Address   4901 MORENA BLVD
> > #1104   SAN DIEGO, CA 92117   Agent for Service of Process  ROBERT C
> > SAWINSKI   7403 BURBANK ST   SAN DIEGO, CA 92111
> >
> > LP/LLC  OOM YUNG DOE LLC   Number: 200205910043  Date Filed: 1/18/2002
> > Status: active  Jurisdiction: CALIFORNIA   Address   4901 MORENA BLVD.
> > #1102   SAN DIEGO, CA 92117   Agent for Service of Process  L. SUE
> > LOFTIN   4901 MORENA BLVD. #1102   SAN DIEGO, CA 92117
> >
> >
> > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker
> > <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Are you serious? All those guys are living in San Diego area? I am 45
> > > minutes away... That is freaky as hell. Mike McKay was like an older
> > > brother to me. I am not sure how I would feel seeing him now knowing
> > > he is still involved in the fraud of the moo crap... I assumed for
> > > sure he would have left. He must be really messed up in the head... I
> > > will tell you a quick funny story from about 1982 I was staying in
> > > McKay apartment and we were driving to open school somewhere. He takes
> > > his shower and we are both getting dressed to head in and open school.
> > > I am ready and waiting for him (of course) and he comes out and starts
> > > taking his hands and frantically shaking his hair.... I watch and say
> > > "Instructor Mike what are you doing?" You know you can use a towel or
> > > hair dryer to dry your hair right? (smiling) and he looks at me and
> > > says: "this is how master dries his hair" In a crazy way it made sense
> > > to me at the time...
> > >
> > > Maybe he is still under that guys "spell" oh well...
> > >
> > > On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:03 AM, mnkjamai wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If you are anywhere near San Diego (Moo central), you can also
> > > > invite Kim, Tom White, Mike McKay, Jerry, Joe J., and maybe a few
> > > > others.
> > > >
> > > > However, I don't think they drink beer.
> > > >
> > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, frankperry1998
> > > > no_reply@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Throw in some hot wings and I'm there!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker
> > > > <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am the same as you. I am not good with names either. Of course
> > > > it
> > > > > > was 25 years ago! Anyway it is great to "meet" you now. If you
> > are
> > > > > > ever in the Southern California area let me know and I will buy
> > > > you a
> > > > > > beer and share some stores of the old days...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Nov 21, 2009, at 9:24 AM, frankperry1998 wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your name is not familiar to me, but I tend to be more visual.
> > > > I do
> > > > > > > know all the other players you mentioned.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker
> > > > > > > <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Frank,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Were you in Chicago near my time there? Have we ever met?
> > > > You seem
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > know a lot of the players from the same time more or less...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Scott
> > > > > > > > On Nov 20, 2009, at 9:38 AM, frankperry1998 wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hey Doyle
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Since when are war veterns so sensitive.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your experience in the moo was sugar coated, you were
> > > > cuddled and
> > > > > > > > > treated differently because you were being set up to be
> > > > sucked dry
> > > > > > > > > of money. You were moved up because they needed a dupe to
> > > > put
> > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > name on school "A" when every one else was jumping ship
> > > > and peter
> > > > > > > > > ross was calling and saying that he was done and wanted
> > > > nothing to
> > > > > > > > > do with the moo and he wanted his name off of the school.
> > > > They
> > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > find no one else and jerry wanted no part of it. So they
> > > > found a
> > > > > > > > > dupe you.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Others had a horrific experience, some it still has a deep
> > > > hold on
> > > > > > > > > them today. Some were in school at a young age 16 or 17,
> > > > they
> > > > > > > > > believed in True, Right and Correct. They left there
> > > > families to
> > > > > > > > > live with other student 4 or 5 to an apartment. They
> > > > worked 2
> > > > > > > jobs,
> > > > > > > > > slept very little. Drove junk cars, mistreated
> > > > girlfriends, All to
> > > > > > > > > live the moo life. Belief systems were installed that Kim
> > > > was the
> > > > > > > > > only way they could go to the next life.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Crazy as this sounds, this is what was going on at the
> > > > time. As
> > > > > > > a 40
> > > > > > > > > year old or a 30 year old I could never fall for this now,
> > > > but a
> > > > > > > 18
> > > > > > > > > year old kid looking for direction in his life can. You
> > > > did not
> > > > > > > > > experience the extreme Moo that a lot of us did. Is this
> > > > > > > comparable
> > > > > > > > > to being in Nam, probably not. But again it was just a
> > > > fucking
> > > > > > > > > analogy. Get over it. Do not be so sensitive.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Frank Perry (No relation)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, dp1929dp
> > > > <no_reply@>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Scott,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Unless you are a war veteran, I recommend you steer
> > > > clear of
> > > > > > > > > insulting returning war veterans by comparing your
> > > > experience in
> > > > > > > moo
> > > > > > > > > with theirs. Their experience was more pronounced and more
> > > > > > > > > psychologically affective by at least a factor of 1000.
> > > > I'm not
> > > > > > > > > belittling the emotional effects of your voluntary
> > > > involvement
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > moo. It just is not in a category with going to war.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com,
> > "scottwalker99"
> > > > > > > > > <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hey everyone. I apologize in advance for this long
> > > > post! But I
> > > > > > > > > was a Moo back in the early 80's and I am really trying to
> > > > find
> > > > > > > > > anyone who has made it out of Moo from the Chicago area. I
> > > > was in
> > > > > > > > > for 5 years and I feel like a Vietnam Vet because I have
> > > > so many
> > > > > > > > > experiences I have wanted to talk about for so long but I
> > > > have
> > > > > > > lost
> > > > > > > > > touch with everyone. Paul Furio, John Liska, Bill
> > McCracken,
> > > > > > > Stuart
> > > > > > > > > Degrath, Mike Mckay (Is he still a Moo?) Sante Furio.
> > > > There are so
> > > > > > > > > many more. Is anyone still around? Can anyone help me find
> > > > any
> > > > > > > of my
> > > > > > > > > old friends and roommates? If anyone has been involved
> > > > with Moo
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > has not read "herding the Moo" PLEASE read it. (I was
> > > > roommates
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > "Joe Smith") and it brought back SO many vivid memories of
> > a
> > > > > > > CRAZY 5
> > > > > > > > > years in a young mans life. I would just love to share
> > > > stories
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > anyone from Chicago (especially school #7) Thanks to
> > > > everyone who
> > > > > > > > > has set up this board, posted information, videos, etc.
> > > > You are
> > > > > > > > > really helping people and if there is anything I can do to
> > > > help I
> > > > > > > > > would be happy to.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Scott Walker aka instructor "Luke Skywalker" to my
> > > > friends at
> > > > > > > > > School 7
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Is Frank Hunley one  of the olders??

--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, frankperry1998 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
> Corporation  TRADITIONAL MOO DOE EQUIPMENT   Number: C2287354  Date
> Filed: 2/11/2002  Status: active   Jurisdiction: California  Address
> 4907 MORENA BLVD  SUITE 1402  SAN DIEGO, CA 92117   Agent for Service of
> Process  L. SUE LOFTIN   5760 FLEET STREET   SUITE 110   CARLSBAD, CA
> 92008
>
> Corporation  OOM YUNG DOE, A CALIFORNIA CORPORATION   Number: C2040458
> Date Filed: 10/6/1998  Status: suspended   Jurisdiction: California
> Address   7514 GRAND AVE STE F  LA JOLLA, CA 92037   Agent for Service
> of Process  THOMAS WHITE   4965 VIA PAPEL   SAN DIEGO, CA 92122
>
> LP/LLC  JADIENCE LLC   Number: 200904310006  Date Filed: 2/6/2009
> Status: active  Jurisdiction: CALIFORNIA   Address   4901 MORENA BLVD
> #1104   SAN DIEGO, CA 92117   Agent for Service of Process  ROBERT C
> SAWINSKI   7403 BURBANK ST   SAN DIEGO, CA 92111
>
> LP/LLC  OOM YUNG DOE LLC   Number: 200205910043  Date Filed: 1/18/2002
> Status: active  Jurisdiction: CALIFORNIA   Address   4901 MORENA BLVD.
> #1102   SAN DIEGO, CA 92117   Agent for Service of Process  L. SUE
> LOFTIN   4901 MORENA BLVD. #1102   SAN DIEGO, CA 92117
>
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker
> <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> >
> > Are you serious? All those guys are living in San Diego area? I am 45
> > minutes away... That is freaky as hell. Mike McKay was like an older
> > brother to me. I am not sure how I would feel seeing him now knowing
> > he is still involved in the fraud of the moo crap... I assumed for
> > sure he would have left. He must be really messed up in the head... I
> > will tell you a quick funny story from about 1982 I was staying in
> > McKay apartment and we were driving to open school somewhere. He takes
> > his shower and we are both getting dressed to head in and open school.
> > I am ready and waiting for him (of course) and he comes out and starts
> > taking his hands and frantically shaking his hair.... I watch and say
> > "Instructor Mike what are you doing?" You know you can use a towel or
> > hair dryer to dry your hair right? (smiling) and he looks at me and
> > says: "this is how master dries his hair" In a crazy way it made sense
> > to me at the time...
> >
> > Maybe he is still under that guys "spell" oh well...
> >
> > On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:03 AM, mnkjamai wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > If you are anywhere near San Diego (Moo central), you can also
> > > invite Kim, Tom White, Mike McKay, Jerry, Joe J., and maybe a few
> > > others.
> > >
> > > However, I don't think they drink beer.
> > >
> > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, frankperry1998
> > > no_reply@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Throw in some hot wings and I'm there!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker
> > > <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am the same as you. I am not good with names either. Of course
> > > it
> > > > > was 25 years ago! Anyway it is great to "meet" you now. If you
> are
> > > > > ever in the Southern California area let me know and I will buy
> > > you a
> > > > > beer and share some stores of the old days...
> > > > >
> > > > > On Nov 21, 2009, at 9:24 AM, frankperry1998 wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your name is not familiar to me, but I tend to be more visual.
> > > I do
> > > > > > know all the other players you mentioned.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker
> > > > > > <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Frank,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Were you in Chicago near my time there? Have we ever met?
> > > You seem
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > know a lot of the players from the same time more or less...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Scott
> > > > > > > On Nov 20, 2009, at 9:38 AM, frankperry1998 wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey Doyle
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Since when are war veterns so sensitive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your experience in the moo was sugar coated, you were
> > > cuddled and
> > > > > > > > treated differently because you were being set up to be
> > > sucked dry
> > > > > > > > of money. You were moved up because they needed a dupe to
> > > put
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > name on school "A" when every one else was jumping ship
> > > and peter
> > > > > > > > ross was calling and saying that he was done and wanted
> > > nothing to
> > > > > > > > do with the moo and he wanted his name off of the school.
> > > They
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > find no one else and jerry wanted no part of it. So they
> > > found a
> > > > > > > > dupe you.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Others had a horrific experience, some it still has a deep
> > > hold on
> > > > > > > > them today. Some were in school at a young age 16 or 17,
> > > they
> > > > > > > > believed in True, Right and Correct. They left there
> > > families to
> > > > > > > > live with other student 4 or 5 to an apartment. They
> > > worked 2
> > > > > > jobs,
> > > > > > > > slept very little. Drove junk cars, mistreated
> > > girlfriends, All to
> > > > > > > > live the moo life. Belief systems were installed that Kim
> > > was the
> > > > > > > > only way they could go to the next life.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Crazy as this sounds, this is what was going on at the
> > > time. As
> > > > > > a 40
> > > > > > > > year old or a 30 year old I could never fall for this now,
> > > but a
> > > > > > 18
> > > > > > > > year old kid looking for direction in his life can. You
> > > did not
> > > > > > > > experience the extreme Moo that a lot of us did. Is this
> > > > > > comparable
> > > > > > > > to being in Nam, probably not. But again it was just a
> > > fucking
> > > > > > > > analogy. Get over it. Do not be so sensitive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Frank Perry (No relation)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, dp1929dp
> > > <no_reply@>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Scott,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Unless you are a war veteran, I recommend you steer
> > > clear of
> > > > > > > > insulting returning war veterans by comparing your
> > > experience in
> > > > > > moo
> > > > > > > > with theirs. Their experience was more pronounced and more
> > > > > > > > psychologically affective by at least a factor of 1000.
> > > I'm not
> > > > > > > > belittling the emotional effects of your voluntary
> > > involvement
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > moo. It just is not in a category with going to war.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com,
> "scottwalker99"
> > > > > > > > <scottwalker99@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hey everyone. I apologize in advance for this long
> > > post! But I
> > > > > > > > was a Moo back in the early 80's and I am really trying to
> > > find
> > > > > > > > anyone who has made it out of Moo from the Chicago area. I
> > > was in
> > > > > > > > for 5 years and I feel like a Vietnam Vet because I have
> > > so many
> > > > > > > > experiences I have wanted to talk about for so long but I
> > > have
> > > > > > lost
> > > > > > > > touch with everyone. Paul Furio, John Liska, Bill
> McCracken,
> > > > > > Stuart
> > > > > > > > Degrath, Mike Mckay (Is he still a Moo?) Sante Furio.
> > > There are so
> > > > > > > > many more. Is anyone still around? Can anyone help me find
> > > any
> > > > > > of my
> > > > > > > > old friends and roommates? If anyone has been involved
> > > with Moo
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > has not read "herding the Moo" PLEASE read it. (I was
> > > roommates
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > "Joe Smith") and it brought back SO many vivid memories of
> a
> > > > > > CRAZY 5
> > > > > > > > years in a young mans life. I would just love to share
> > > stories
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > anyone from Chicago (especially school #7) Thanks to
> > > everyone who
> > > > > > > > has set up this board, posted information, videos, etc.
> > > You are
> > > > > > > > really helping people and if there is anything I can do to
> > > help I
> > > > > > > > would be happy to.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Scott Walker aka instructor "Luke Skywalker" to my
> > > friends at
> > > > > > > > School 7
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

As soon as the dates and location are set, I'll make sure it gets posted here.





--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, frankperry1998 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Can you post more details, for the ones who might be interested?
>
>
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "mas_judt" <mas_judt@> wrote:
> >
> > Bapak Willem DeThouars will be back in May 2010. I encourage folks to make
the effort to see him before he retires in December 2010.  A very rare chance to
experience the hand of a true master of the martial arts.
> >
> > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "angrywhiteghost"
<angrywhiteghost@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > He is a legend, Thanks for sharing, I'm envious.
> > >
> > > AWG
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, wujji2000 <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker <scottwalker99@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Come on Wujji how about putting names to the faces for some of us new
> > > > > guys to the board???
> > > > >
> > > > > On Nov 25, 2009, at 3:04 PM, angrywhiteghost wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I just notice the new photo in the photo section
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oomyungdoe_discuss/photos/recent/687781983/view
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Very cool Willem Dethouars, I know of him only by rep. Kun Tao Silat
> > > > > > DE Thouras.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even cooler is that I noticed the diagram on the floor, I use the
> > > > > > same diagram for "angle for taking ones center" I can only imagine
> > > > > > what was practiced.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Very cool.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Who is the Handome stud, back row far left???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > AWG
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > When I posted that picture I was unsure what I wanted to say about it
but I wanted to share something not moo. Not moo in the fact that any moo energy
would not be welcomed with that group. One reason why is that any trace of moo
energy would be a contamination for developing any true martial art skill.
> > > >
> > > > What we did in that basement that day was very cool. I have bruises all
over my body in that picture from guy's being nice to me.
> > > >
> > > > Practicing a true martial art is about become free and not fighting. You
need to be free in your own body, this freedom brings a sense of well being many
people strive for but never reach. The best part is your mind needs to be free.
This is hard describe because you have to taste it to understand it but one way
is to let go as if you know nothing. If you do not you are tied down to what you
think you know thus never gaining the freedom of mind to reach a high level.
> > > >
> > > > Uncle Bill thru example he taught us how to move and think freely and
then express that thru our technique. That is all I want to say about that here
but since this is a moo board I will say I can compare Uncle Bills energy to
that of the Big Hair One,(I do not want to say his name on the same page)and the
reults of my comparison is that Uncle Bill is a Martial Artist and the Big Hair
One is not. It is that simple. In fact IMOP, anything you hang onto from the Big
Hair One will not allow you to become a martial artist. If you think you can you
are wrong. You just cannot see it, the mind in not free to see it.
> > > >
> > > > Oh yeah, Uncle Bill is 75 and moves more freely than a young man.
> > > >
> > > > Happy Thanksgiving!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Can you post more details, for the ones who might be interested?



--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "mas_judt" <mas_judt@...> wrote:
>
> Bapak Willem DeThouars will be back in May 2010. I encourage folks to make the
effort to see him before he retires in December 2010.  A very rare chance to
experience the hand of a true master of the martial arts.
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "angrywhiteghost"
<angrywhiteghost@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > He is a legend, Thanks for sharing, I'm envious.
> >
> > AWG
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, wujji2000 <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker <scottwalker99@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Come on Wujji how about putting names to the faces for some of us new
> > > > guys to the board???
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 25, 2009, at 3:04 PM, angrywhiteghost wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I just notice the new photo in the photo section
> > > > >
> > > > >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oomyungdoe_discuss/photos/recent/687781983/view
> > > > >
> > > > > Very cool Willem Dethouars, I know of him only by rep. Kun Tao Silat
> > > > > DE Thouras.
> > > > >
> > > > > Even cooler is that I noticed the diagram on the floor, I use the
> > > > > same diagram for "angle for taking ones center" I can only imagine
> > > > > what was practiced.
> > > > >
> > > > > Very cool.
> > > > >
> > > > > Who is the Handome stud, back row far left???
> > > > >
> > > > > AWG
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > When I posted that picture I was unsure what I wanted to say about it but
I wanted to share something not moo. Not moo in the fact that any moo energy
would not be welcomed with that group. One reason why is that any trace of moo
energy would be a contamination for developing any true martial art skill.
> > >
> > > What we did in that basement that day was very cool. I have bruises all
over my body in that picture from guy's being nice to me.
> > >
> > > Practicing a true martial art is about become free and not fighting. You
need to be free in your own body, this freedom brings a sense of well being many
people strive for but never reach. The best part is your mind needs to be free.
This is hard describe because you have to taste it to understand it but one way
is to let go as if you know nothing. If you do not you are tied down to what you
think you know thus never gaining the freedom of mind to reach a high level.
> > >
> > > Uncle Bill thru example he taught us how to move and think freely and then
express that thru our technique. That is all I want to say about that here but
since this is a moo board I will say I can compare Uncle Bills energy to that of
the Big Hair One,(I do not want to say his name on the same page)and the reults
of my comparison is that Uncle Bill is a Martial Artist and the Big Hair One is
not. It is that simple. In fact IMOP, anything you hang onto from the Big Hair
One will not allow you to become a martial artist. If you think you can you are
wrong. You just cannot see it, the mind in not free to see it.
> > >
> > > Oh yeah, Uncle Bill is 75 and moves more freely than a young man.
> > >
> > > Happy Thanksgiving!
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Mana-tees roasting on an open fire,

Anti-Moos nipping at their nose,

Courses failing due to fraud & scam,

Moo-moos be-coming the damned.

All we can say, in ev-er-ry way...

Merry Anti-Moo-Mass, this day...


--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker <scottwalker99@...>
wrote:
>
> Happy Anniversary and congratulations to you!
>
> On Dec 2, 2009, at 7:15 AM, mnkjamai wrote:
>
> > Well?
> >
> > I guess this is the 4th anniversary of the week I left OYD for good.
> >
> > It was not the nicest of break-ups, and I left very frustrated,
> > confused and upset that I made the choice to leave, because
> > actually, I REALLY wanted to stay in some ways.
> >
> > Just glad I had a great support group consisting of the wife,
> > friends and family that helped make it a little easier. Now I am
> > learning REAL martial arts, from REAL martial artists, and the
> > training is light years ahead of the junk taught in CMQ/CMD/OYD. My
> > elbow and knee problems are all gone, FYI.
> >
> > Happy Holidays all!
> >
> > MNK
> >
> >
> >
>

Bapak Willem DeThouars will be back in May 2010. I encourage folks to make the
effort to see him before he retires in December 2010.  A very rare chance to
experience the hand of a true master of the martial arts.

--- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, "angrywhiteghost"
<angrywhiteghost@...> wrote:
>
>
> He is a legend, Thanks for sharing, I'm envious.
>
> AWG
>
>
>
> --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, wujji2000 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In oomyungdoe_discuss@yahoogroups.com, scott walker <scottwalker99@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Come on Wujji how about putting names to the faces for some of us new
> > > guys to the board???
> > >
> > > On Nov 25, 2009, at 3:04 PM, angrywhiteghost wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just notice the new photo in the photo section
> > > >
> > > >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oomyungdoe_discuss/photos/recent/687781983/view
> > > >
> > > > Very cool Willem Dethouars, I know of him only by rep. Kun Tao Silat
> > > > DE Thouras.
> > > >
> > > > Even cooler is that I noticed the diagram on the floor, I use the
> > > > same diagram for "angle for taking ones center" I can only imagine
> > > > what was practiced.
> > > >
> > > > Very cool.
> > > >
> > > > Who is the Handome stud, back row far left???
> > > >
> > > > AWG
> > > >
> >
> >
> > When I posted that picture I was unsure what I wanted to say about it but I
wanted to share something not moo. Not moo in the fact that any moo energy would
not be welcomed with that group. One reason why is that any trace of moo energy
would be a contamination for developing any true martial art skill.
> >
> > What we did in that basement that day was very cool. I have bruises all over
my body in that picture from guy's being nice to me.
> >
> > Practicing a true martial art is about become free and not fighting. You
need to be free in your own body, this freedom brings a sense of well being many
people strive for but never reach. The best part is your mind needs to be free.
This is hard describe because you have to taste it to understand it but one way
is to let go as if you know nothing. If you do not you are tied down to what you
think you know thus never gaining the freedom of mind to reach a high level.
> >
> > Uncle Bill thru example he taught us how to move and think freely and then
express that thru our technique. That is all I want to say about that here but
since this is a moo board I will say I can compare Uncle Bills energy to that of
the Big Hair One,(I do not want to say his name on the same page)and the reults
of my comparison is that Uncle Bill is a Martial Artist and the Big Hair One is
not. It is that simple. In fact IMOP, anything you hang onto from the Big Hair
One will not allow you to become a martial artist. If you think you can you are
wrong. You just cannot see it, the mind in not free to see it.
> >
> > Oh yeah, Uncle Bill is 75 and moves more freely than a young man.
> >
> > Happy Thanksgiving!
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>