From: speedstox12

To: oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:31 PM

Subject: [oldtimespeedway] Re: Lionel Van Praag

Ross: That rference to New Cross in 1931/1932 by Jim Shepherd did catch my attention.
New Cross opened in 1934 when Crystal Palace relocated there.

--- In oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com, "Ross Garrigan" <rjgarrigan@...> wrote:
>
> Steve, if you think I'm going to sit down and watch all that DVD and list the errors in it
for you, you're mistaken - I have better things to do.
>
> However, here are a few I remember: -
>
> Right near the start Jim makes the statement that Lionel first went to England in 1932.
He also says Lionel had been chased by a number of clubs including West Ham, Wembley
and New Cross. Even IF Lionel had first gone to England in 1932 as Jim claims, to also say
that New Cross had been chasing him just componds the error. Lionel first went to
England in 1931. Did New Cross exist in 1931? or even in 1932 for that matter?
>
> I recall that, when speaking of the money on offer for the first World Final in 1936, he
erred there as well.
>
> Another person who is interviewed gives the impression that the races at the Sydney
Showground in 1926 were started in what to most would appear to be a most unusual
way. What he was actually describing was how the novelty events were started, and Lionel
had some success in those while he was still trying to come to grips with the actual racing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve
> To: oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 1:02 PM
> Subject: [oldtimespeedway] Re: Lionel Van Praag
>
>
> Ross, you claim that Jim Shepherd made some mistakes in the Van Praag
> DVD. I would suggest you divulge to us what they were, please. We'd
> all like to know what these "clangers" are, I'm sure.
>
> Steve
> --- In oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com, "Ross Garrigan"
> <rjgarrigan@> wrote:
> >
> > John, you aren't the only one to be caught out by Jim's errors. I
> read some glowing reviews of the Australian speedway history book Jim
> wrote a few years back. It was so popular it sold out. Having read
> the reviews (and the book) I realised that those reviewing the book
> knew bugger-all about pre-war Australian speedway. Jim really made
> some blunders when writing that section. One reviewer wrote that it
> was the "definitive history of Australian speedway". Another wrote
> that he only found one error in the book. I have another major beef
> about something he wrote in the book but I prefer not to go into that.
> >
> > Jim also writes for a speedway newsletter in Australia and some of
> the content there is far from accurate.
> >
> > As for the DVD, it is some time since I watched it. After listening
> to what Jim said in his very first appearance early in the DVD I paid
> scant attention to what he said in his appearances after that. In his
> first appearance I seem to recall two clangers - when it was he says
> Lionel first went to England, and the clubs which had been chasing
> his signature. How could I take anything else he said seriously.
> Check the first bit of the DVD out and if my memory is correct about
> those two points, think about what he says in reference to them. It
> was one of those errors which another highly respected speedway
> journalist repeated. There were other errors in the DVD but I really
> can't remember what they were.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Hyam
> > To: oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 6:54 PM
> > Subject: [oldtimespeedway] Lionel Van Praag
> >
> >
> > Hi Ross!
> >
> > That's interesting about the Lionel Van Praag DVD,
> > which I reviewed extensively in the South London Press
> > soon after its release. He rode for New Cross in 1947,
> > which was the main link.
> >
> > I didn't spot the Jim Shepherd error(s) and took the
> > DVD all in good faith. I am a trusting soul! Besides
> > the perpetuation of the error by another journalist
> > which you mention, maybe my SLP review also carried
> > it. I don't know. If it did...and the review is used
> > in future times for research the mistake will live on.
> >
> > There are so many of these 'perpetuating errors' and
> > they get carried on because they are often the source
> > used by subsequent researchers. Once they appear, it
> > is very difficult, if not impossible, to get a
> > correction recognised.
> >
> > I made a similar mistake a while back when writing
> > about the pre-war Canadian and West Ham star Jimmy
> > Gibb.I understood he raced pre-World War Two in
> > Australia with USA's Jack and Cordy Milne - it turned
> > out this was just a piece of local newspaper 'colour'
> > to herald his arrival at Custom House in 1938. If, in
> > future years, a researcher reads my piece, the error
> > is likely to sadly appear again and ad infinitum.
> >
> > I am going to watch my LVP DVD soon and try to see
> > where Jim Shepherd may have erred? Any clues for me?
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
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>