George Rekela is the only person I know personally (or at least that I
know of) who has been present twice to see a single-game NFL rushing
record broken.  He and Howard Luloff and Paul Rittenhouse were in
Cincinnati in 2000 when Corey Dillon broke the record.  Today he and I
were at the Vikings game to see Adrian Peterson break the record of
the person who broke Dillon's record.

Stew

The Star Tribune has a story on its web site that will be in the
Sunday edition about the Boogaard's fighting school:

http://www.startribune.com/wild/story/1302464.html

There is also an instant poll about whether the Boogaard's should be
doing this.  So far, the poll shows overwhelming support for it.

If I didn't like the free food at the Wild's dining room (and if I
actually had any principles), I'd turn in my Wild credential.

Stew

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/070625

A fun list from Caple.  Don’t disagree with his ten events to avoid either (except that rhythmic gymnastics – despite my lack of interest in it – does not deserve to be dissed like the other events he mentions do.)

Any event involving your own kids is of course #1.  And if he is going to mention a Little League game “everywhere”, I would do the same for high school boys basketball.

Here are some other events I would add.

·       any high school state basketball or football championship day  -- as much as we long for the days of a single tournament for all schools, it’s a lot of fun to watch 4 or 5 different state championship games in the same day

·       a minor league baseball game

·       a Maccabi Tel Aviv basketball game (really crazy fans)

·       the French Open

·       the Henley Regatta

·       a Strongman competition (what, you wouldn’t enjoy watching a guy pull a semi-truck?)

·       a balloon race (incredible visuals)

·       dog racing (may be sleazy, but exciting)

·       the world basketball and volleyball championships

·       and the World Baseball Classic (hey, I thought it was cool!  Really!)

The Summer Olympics are his #1.  I would add that basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, and track and field (especially 100, 1500 and long jump) would be my top priorities to watch at the games, but that I would also make sure I saw a water polo game – ultimate fighting in water!

For the Winter Olympics, hockey, figure skating, downhill skiing, cross country skiing relay, ski jumping and short track speed skating (sort of like roller derby, only legit) would be my top priorities.  And curling would be too funny to pass up.

Finally, my daughter would kill me if I did not include the national cheerleading championship, so there you have it.

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@...> wrote:

>OK, you think this will not send a message that goonery is
rewarded.  I disagree, obviously, but that is certainly a matter of
interpretation, so I agree that you have answered that.  I am still
not sure what your answer was regarding the severity of the two
suspensions.  Do you think that one game for what Stoudemire did and
only two games for what Horry did are equitable?

The way it's not equitable is that Stoudamire/Stoudemire (I can't
remember which Stoudamire/Stoudemire spells his name which way, but
you know who I'm talking about) is a better player than Horry, but I
don't think that should be taken into account when determining
penalties, even suspensions.  The NHL let the Flyers get away with
this on a systematic basis, no-skill Schultz being able to take a
more-skilled player off the ice for the same period he's off.
What I see the NBA doing by suspending Horry for two games is
clearly indicating that goonish behavior will be dealt with by the
league, meaning that the players need not concern themselves with
their own response to it.  This is far different from the NHL, where
the attitude is to "let the problems be taken care of on the ice"
(translated: if your guy keeps cheap-shotted, send your goon out to
retaliate).  This is even the attitude in baseball with having
pitchers plunk someone in response to some horrendous grievance
(such as a team with a big lead bunting or stealing).

If Stoudamire got a one-game suspension, I'm assuming this is the
standard penalty for leaving the bench during an altercation.  I can
understand why the NBA, a league that I think has been responsive to
goonery but yet has a black eye because of two brawls that really
got out of hand in recent years, wants to keep players on the bench.
This, of course, differs from coming to the aid of a player who is
in imminent danger. (I'm thinking of something like Fred Taylor, the
Ohio State coach, rushing on to the court to keep Ron Behagen from
stomping on Luke Witte, who had just been kneed in the nuts by Corky
Taylor.  Pardon me for a moment while I take a deep breath, because,
even 35 years later, that horrible horrible incident still bothers
the crap out of me.  Behagen and Taylor should have ended up in jail
for that.)

I understand that there is always an urge for players and coaches to
go onto the court when something happens.  I recall a situation at
Minneapolis Community College in the 1980s when there was a minor
scuffle on the court.  Willie Owens, a Minneapolis assistant coach,
took a step or two onto the court but held up, knowing that coaches
weren't to go on to the court except to aid an injured player, and
then only after getting permission from the officials to do so.  It
seemed clear to me that Willie wanted to get onto the court to pull
his own player out of the fray, but he held up.  He was very
agitated and it was obviously difficult to hold up, but he did, and
he let the floor officials handle the situation, which they did.  I
gave Willie a lot of credit for his restraint, seeing how much he
wanted to get out there to get his player away but knowing that, not
only was it against the rules for him to do so, it was also better
to let the officials handle it, that his presence on the court, even
though with good intentions, could actually make the situation worse.

>And yes, Duncan was one of the Spurs who went out on the court.
Should he have been suspended?  And if so, does that not defeat the
idea that Stern acted fairly or wisely?

I'm tempted to paraphrase your answer to my question about why the
Bulls would prohibit their players from wearing headbands (which you
brushed off by saying you can't get into the heads of Skiles and
Paxson so you couldn't answer that), by saying I can't get into the
head of David Stern.

But, like you, not being able to get into someone's head has never
prevented me from being opinionated, so what the heck.
All I can do is speculate on how Stern interpreted the two
situations.  Duncan and another Spur took a few steps off the bench
and onto the floor, were still a pretty good distance away from
where their player had gone down, and immediately backed up back to
the bench on their own.

Stoudamire went further onto the floor into what was already a fray
that had the potential to escalate, and Stern may have viewed this
differently.

That's nothing more than speculation, and I'm only suggesting it as
a means of how I might have interpreted it had I been the one who
had to make decisions regarding penalties.  On the other hand, if it
had been me, maybe I would have given Duncan and the other Spur a
one game suspension, as well.  Since it wasn't me, I really have no
idea on what I would have done.

Some of the media reaction I read intimated that they thought the
penalties were appropriate, but that Stern should have considered
the impact on the playoffs, especially the fact that the loss of
Stoudamire would hurt the Suns more than the loss of Horry would
hurt the Spurs—going back to my first paragraph that this might not
be equitable but that it's not something a commissioner should
consider in determining penalties.  To do that would be creating a
system of inconsistent discipline.

As always, one can infer many messages from an action.  In fact,
that's one of the lines I hate ("This will send the wrong
message . . . ") as much as I hate the term PC (except when it
stands for Pure Crap instead of Politically Correct).  It's not the
message that is sent, it's the message that someone chooses to
receive from the action, and that will vary greatly.  The message I
choose to receive from this is that the players have to leave it to
the league to discipline the players from goonery; if they don't,
they will receive a penalty, as well.

Stew

> ________________________________
>
> From: mnsports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mnsports@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of stewthornley
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:43 AM
> To: mnsports@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [mnsports] Re: zebras blow it again
>
>
>
> --- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mnsports%
40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@> wrote:
> >
> > Duncan knows what the rules are too. So why wasn't he suspended?
> (I
> > sent you the internet link. I hope you looked at it.)
>

Yeah, I did. I saw two Spurs take three steps onto the court and
then step back. Was Duncan one of them?

> And why are you
> > defending Stern for suspending Horry only one more game than he
> > suspended Stoudemire? And I'm still waiting for your explanation
> of why
> > - given how this premeditated cheap shop won the series for the
> Spurs -
> > Stern's decision to suspend Stoudemire (and slap Horry on the
> wrist)
> > does NOT give motivation to other NBA goons to use Dave Schultz
> tactics,
> > when the risk/reward ratio is this favorable.
> >

I gave you my responses to your questions. You don't have to like
them, but they are there. If you like, I could repeat them, but I'd
doubt you like them any better than the first time I gave them.

Stew

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@...> wrote:
>
> Duncan knows what the rules are too.  So why wasn't he suspended?
(I
> sent you the internet link.  I hope you looked at it.)

Yeah, I did.  I saw two Spurs take three steps onto the court and
then step back.  Was Duncan one of them?


   And why are you
> defending Stern for suspending Horry only one more game than he
> suspended Stoudemire?  And I'm still waiting for your explanation
of why
> - given how this premeditated cheap shop won the series for the
Spurs -
> Stern's decision to suspend Stoudemire (and slap Horry on the
wrist)
> does NOT give motivation to other NBA goons to use Dave Schultz
tactics,
> when the risk/reward ratio is this favorable.
>

I gave you my responses to your questions.  You don't have to like
them, but they are there.  If you like, I could repeat them, but I'd
doubt you like them any better than the first time I gave them.

Stew

A rookie wins two races and he “could be the most talented driver ever to sit in a Formula One cockpit”?!?!

And he “is one of those rare athletes who can change a sport forever”?!?!?!

After two victories?!?!?!?!

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=6&columnist=blount_terry&id=2907152

But I knew this would happen.  You know why?  Because this driver is black.  As soon as I saw the headline that he was “the first black to (fill in the blank)” I knew the media would react like this.  Happens EVERY time.  I know we get stupid sports reporting on lots of subjects, but this particular type of stupid sports reporting is the most predictable.  I can’t wait for the story how about how he will inspire black kids in the inner city to be Formula 1 racers.  Gee, I just hope he doesn’t lure away all those blacks that baseball “needs” to survive.  

This stuff is so PC.  And that also stand for pure crap.

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I guess you probably think Rudy Tomjanovich should have suspended
along
> with Kermit Washington, too, for rushing toward the action and getting
> himself clobbered.

Well, hey, he really knocked the shit out of Washington's fist with his
face.


After all, "players have some responsibility to make
> sure their actions don't hurt their team."
>

At the time, I don't know they had any rules about leaving the bench
during an altercation.  Now they do.  The rules make sense, especially
after the ugly ones they've had in the last few years.  The players
know what the rules are.  When there's an altercation, they know they
should stay on the bench and let the referees and then the league
determine the penalties for a cheap shot.  If they don't, they get
drawn into the web of suspensions, too.

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@...> wrote:
>
> Then you're wrong.


Then you're double secret wrong.


Watch this
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RDYD0EUBzY and then check any
> dictionary's definition of "bolting" and "walking".  The only
violent
> aspect of what Stoudemire did was the strength with which his coach
> grabbed him.
>
>
>
> But how about answering the basic questions?
>
>
>
> How is this any different from the Dave Schultz scenario you
described?
>
>

With Schultz, it was a systematic thing to have him to get banished
with an opponent for an equal amount of time, an advantage to the
Flyers because whoever he took off with him was better than he was,
thus the loss being greater to the other team.  This was something
that was done all the time, and I don't know that's the case with
Horry.



>
> How are what Horry did and what Stoudemire did equal?
>
>

I couldn't tell from the video who all was whom.  Horry committed a
foul, a dirty one, that gets whistled at the time and that may get an
additional suspension.

Stoudamire was among those leaving the bench.  Some got all the way
out there after Horry, some were pulled back.  Stoudamire looked like
he was among the ones being pulled back.  You don't know any more
than I do what pulled him out there--concern for a fallen teammate or
being pissed at Horry.  Would he have rushed out there had Nash just
crashed without a dirty foul or would he have just left Nash for the
trainers and coach to check out (as is usually the case)?  I don't
know.

The NBA has done a good job on cracking down on stuff.  Compare it to
the NHL and it's not even close.  Yet it has had two doozies in the
past few years.  What it wants to do is make sure this stuff doesn't
get out of control and having players stay at their benches when
there is an altercation - and that could certainly be described as an
altercation - makes sense.

Beyond that, I don't remember who exactly got suspended and for how
long, so I can't sort all that out.  It would be a better comparison
to look at how Stoudamire's suspension for leaving the bench compares
with those who got farther out and went after Horry.



>
> Why shouldn't Stern have suspended Duncan for the earlier incident,
if
> there is no leeway in these things and there are no excuses for
stepping
> onto the court?
>
>

As I said before, I'm not familiar with what else went on in that
game.


>
> Why shouldn't Stern have interpreted the Horry incident in a way
that
> would not have required suspensions (as he did with Duncan) since
that
> option was available under the rules?
>
>

Why should he have?  Players have some responsibility to make sure
their actions don't hurt their team.  If it sucked for Phoenix, then
put the onus on the players whose actions drew the penalties.



>
> How does this ruling, which rewarded Horry's on court violence, make
> future on court violence less likely?
>
>

Horry was suspended for what he did.  The others were suspended for
what they did.  I think it's far-fetched to believe this is going to
cause players to start throwing hips, figuring that players better
than they are will leave the opposing bench and get suspensions for
themselves.

What I see coming out of what Stern did is the message that dirty
play will be penalized.  Leave it to the league to hand down the
penalties rather than trying to retaliate yourself.  All this will do
is get you suspended.

Stew





>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: mnsports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mnsports@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of stewthornley
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:42 AM
> To: mnsports@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [mnsports] Re: zebras blow it again
>
>
>
> --- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mnsports%
40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@> wrote:
> >
> > Bullshit. They did not "go after " Horry. They took a couple of
> steps
> > towards their fallen teammate - who had just been attacked by
Horry -
> -
> > but did not take an aggressive stance, did not confront another
> player,
> > did not engage with a fan, did NOT DO A DAMN THING that would in
any
> > real world lead to an escalation of the violence.
>
> Double bullshit to you.
>
> Did you actually
> > watch what Stoudemire did? Are you seriously describing that as
> > "bolting" onto the court?
>
> Yes.
>

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@...> wrote:
>
> Bullshit.  They did not "go after " Horry.  They took a couple of
steps
> towards their fallen teammate - who had just been attacked by Horry -
-
> but did not take an aggressive stance, did not confront another
player,
> did not engage with a fan, did NOT DO A DAMN THING that would in any
> real world lead to an escalation of the violence.

Double bullshit to you.

  Did you actually
> watch what Stoudemire did?  Are you seriously describing that as
> "bolting" onto the court?

Yes.

I'm not familiar with all that went on in that game other than Horry
throwing his hip into Nash and a couple players, including Amare
Stoudamire, coming off the bench to go after Horry.  So I'm not
considering this in the full context of what else was going on in the
game.  I saw the replay of the foul over and over and over and
over . . . it was like watching CNN the day Anna Nicole Smith
died . . . but I'm not familiar with the premeditation.

The main thing is that a couple people came off the Phoenix bench.  I
don't blame Stern for being damn concerned about that.  The NBA does
crack down on fighting, yet, because of a couple of brawls that
really got out of hand over the last few years, they've actually
gotten castigated for goonery more than the NHL has.  Having
Stern/stern penalties, and enforcing those penalties, is a way to
keep those brawls from getting out of hand.

So what is Stern supposed to do about the fact that the Phoenix
player who screwed up is better than the San Antonio player who
screwed up?  It's the responsibility of the players to control their
actions.  And if it's a player who is really good and whom their team
depends on, then he better take that responsibility even more
seriously.  It's like in 1998 when McGwire was on his home-run run
and got thrown out of the game by umpire Sam Holbrook, who was
villified by everyone for denying the fans the chance to see
McGwire.  If McGwire was this hot an item (and he was), didn't he
feel a responsibility to not scream Fuck You in an umpire's face?  If
Amare Stoudamire is a key player to the Suns (and he is), doesn't he
understand he has a responsibility to not bolt onto the court as he
did?

I'm not talking about the crap the NHL used to let Dave Schultz get
away with--pick a fight with anyone and go off the ice for an equal
amount of time, an advantage to the Flyers because no matter who else
went off, it was a player better than Dave Schultz.  The NBA has been
good about cracking down on this kind of crap and keeping it from
becoming the NHL.  And I like handing down the suspensions at the
time an action happens, even if it's during the playoffs.  It's too
bad it can have such an impact, but blame the players involved for
that.  I'll take this kind of action over the total mishandling by
baseball with the Roger Clemens suspension for his actions during the
playoffs in 1990.  They didn't even have him suspended at the
beginning of the 1991 season because he appealed the suspension.
Huh?  They had an entire off-season to deal with that.

As for your "good of the game" statement, all you do is remind me how
Bowie Kuhn often invoked that phrase to justify some idiotic
actions.  "For the good of the game" is right up there
with "politically correct" in phrases I have great disdain for.

Stew


--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@...> wrote:
>
> Be a leader instead of making a non-decision that any low-level
> by-the-book functionary could have made.  He could have acted like a
> commissioner and said that - for the good of the game - it would be
> wrong to reward foul play by the Spurs and that the two Suns would
> instead be suspended for one game during the 2007-2008 regular
season.
> (And then suspended Robert Horry for one month, without pay.)  Too
much
> like a commissioner?  OK, he could have ruled that the Duncan move
onto
> the court earlier in the game was also an altercation and suspended
him
> too.  Too Solomonic?  OK, then here's the decision he certainly
could
> have made.  He could have ruled that there was no altercation with
Horry
> and Nash - absolutely within his power since there is no clearcut
> definition of what constitutes an altercation in the NBA
rulebook.   How
> many playoff games have hard fouls and players jawing at each other?
> Except that Horry's foul was absolutely premeditated - for which
Stern
> REWARDED his team - this was a helluva lot closer to that than it
was to
> Pistons-Pacers.  Yeah, it was a flagrant foul.  But were any punches
> thrown?  Did anyone get assessed a foul for fighting?  Did anyone
> interact even verbally with any fans?  So how is that an
altercation any
> more than Duncan's moment IF NOBODY ACTUALLY FOUGHT?  Sure there
would
> be some spin doctoring in that ruling.  But is it MORE honest to
pretend
> that justice was served, or that the fans were served, or that
future
> on-court violence was made LESS likely, by suspending the Suns and
> ruining the playoffs?  How the hell was that good for the game?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: mnsports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mnsports@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of stewthornley
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:30 PM
> To: mnsports@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [mnsports] Re: zebras blow it again
>
>
>
> --- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mnsports%
40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@> wrote:
> >
> > Like much of the officiating this season, and David Stern's petty
> bureaucrat non-leadership with the Suns' suspension, this was
pathetic.
>
> I'm not going to argue about your issues with officiating, but
what, in
> your opinion, should Stern have done in the Suns-Spurs series
regarding
> that situation?
>
> Stew
>

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@...> wrote:
>
> Like much of the officiating this season, and David Stern's petty
bureaucrat non-leadership with the Suns' suspension, this was pathetic.


I'm not going to argue about your issues with officiating, but what, in
your opinion, should Stern have done in the Suns-Spurs series regarding
that situation?

Stew

Athletes are routinely expected to shoulder all the blame when their team loses.  You know what I mean – “even if that call was wrong, blah blah blah” they are supposed to overcome it.  The bad call didn’t lose it, THEY lost if by not being perfect.  Doesn’t matter that the same is true of the other team, who could have done more to win but won anyway because they got the call.

Now we have this clichéd crap again in response to game 3 of the NBA finals.  Sure, there is no guarantee James would have hit all 3 free throws (as he should have been awarded since by common NBA continuation interpretation) or the Cavs would have won in overtime if he did.  But they should have had the chance.  What I would like to know is why the refs always get a free pass from the mainstream on this?  Why always “yeah, bad call, BUT…” and then blame the losing team?  Well, to use the zebraphiles logic back on them, “EVEN IF” the Cavaliers had earlier chances, that doesn’t change the fact that Bob Delaney missed the biggest call of the game – that EVERY DAMN PERSON BUT HIM saw live WITHOUT the benefit of replay – and eliminated any chance this series had of becoming competitive.  Yeah, he does not get the hero worship and salary of the star athletes.  But his career last a helluva long longer, and he still gets paid a helluva lot more than me.  Why the hell SHOULDN’T he get roasted for his incompetence?  How the hell can he miss an INTENTIONAL foul RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIS NOSE?  Like much of the officiating this season, and David Stern’s petty bureaucrat non-leadership with the Suns’ suspension, this was pathetic.        

Interesting item by Patrick Reusse in his Between the Quotes column
today about Derek Boogard, now teaching a school for fighting in
hockey while also facing charges of his own for aggravated assault.

http://www.startribune.com/508/story/1239690.html

Derek and Aaron Boogaard, the battling brothers from Saskatchewan,
performed a tremendous public service last week when they conducted a
fighting camp for hockey players ages 12-to-18 at the Puckmasters
training center in Regina. More than 30 registered players attended.

"We're out here to show kids how to look after themselves when
they're on the ice," Derek told the Regina Leader-Post. "We're
showing them the little things that would help them out, rather than
them learning the hard way and getting hurt."

Derek is the Wild's enforcer at 6-7, 260 pounds. Younger brother
Aaron is 6-3, 245 and recently signed with Pittsburgh. He was among
the most prolific fighters in the junior Western Hockey League.

"It's a greasy job, but somebody has to do it," Aaron said.

Derek has a more serious issue that involves fighting: He faces a
June 18 trial in Regina on an aggravated assault charge stemming from
a fight outside a nightclub last Aug. 12.

* * * * *

Who says there are no good role models left in sports?

Stew

I’m offering a list of my ten favorite games of all time, for each venue (live, television, videotape, radio) that I have experienced.  (I’ve watched a couple of games via internet, so I guess that will be a new category when I update this in the future.)

I tried to avoid “historic” moments, like the Heidi game or Jim Marshall running the wrong way, unless they were terrific games too.

I tried to avoid personal “historic” moments as well.  My first hockey game (a minor league game my Dad took me to around 1960), or my first Twins game (when you could still see the cows in the pasture beyond leftfield), or my first NBA game, or the first time I saw the Japanese national high school baseball tournament on television, were all great stuff, but grist for a different list.

I tried to avoid games where the setting was the star, like a soccer game I saw in the Amazonian jungle in Bolivia played on a clifftop, or when I won a sports radio challenge to score two tickets to a Timberwolves luxury box, or when I got to go on the field (with my sons) at the Tokyo Dome to deliver the Embassy’s message to a Japan-U.S. all star game.  Those were all pretty cool, but they had nothing to do with the games that were played. 

And while this whole list is personal (lots of these games would ever make a non-Minnesotan list) I skipped the completely personal moments.  Watching my sons and daughter play was better than anything on these lists.

I did not take too long to do this, so I might have to add something if anyone responds with different favorites.  (I did not see some obvious choices – at least for Minnesotans – like the 1995 Sweet 16 final between Minneapolis North and Staples-Motley.)  Even more than most lists, this is personal and has no right or wrong choices, and I would be interested in hearing everybody else’s favorites as well.  It would be interesting to see how different the lists are for members of different ages too.  I look forward to everyone’s thoughts on this.

Alan  

LIVE

1962 (college football) Minnesota vs UCLA Rose Bowl

Minnesota triumphs, and I got to go to Disneyland.

1963 (high school basketball) Marshall vs Cloquet state championship game

The greatest tournament game ever, until this year.

1966 (high school basketball) the three Edina games in the state tournament

I don’t think any team has had a more exciting run in the tournament.  Great games, great drama.  I think this was Edina’s first championship of any kind, wasn’t it?  Oh, well.  Nothing’s perfect.

1977 (international men’s basketball) Athletes in Action vs. Soviet national team

Great basketball, and when the Soviet ref continued to blatantly cheat to help the Soviet win a tough game, the American (Pac 10) ref started cheating back to give the Americans a chance.  Besides the political drama, it was a great game of basketball.

1977 (college football) Minnesota vs Michigan

Gophers upset #1 Wolverines to win the Little Brown Jug for the first time in years.  Exciting game capped by sour-faced moneybags Michigan alums behind me shouting at me to sit down, and me shouting back at them to stand up.  Sweet victory.

1979 (high school boys basketball) Minnesota vs Indiana all star game

Randy Breuer, Ben Coleman, Greg Downing and company thumped ‘em.  Really the first time I saw what Minnesota high school basketball COULD be.

1987 (baseball) Twins vs Cardinal World Series game 7

Game 6 was probably a more exciting game (Don Baylor home run fuels comeback capped by Hrbie’s grand slam) but how can I not include my team finally winning it all?

1991 (high school hockey) sectional finals

I guess I’m breaking my “personal” rule here (it was either this or my high school winning its only football game of the season my senior year – homecoming yet – by defeating a team that didn’t lose another game all season) but this was the first game that I took my still-new Japanese bride to in Minnesota, and she enjoyed it so much (first hockey game, the big school then the small schools, the crowd) that I loved it too.  Everything that’s great about high school sports, including the Mom for one player who kept imploring “Joe! Joe! Joe!” and then falling silent whenever her baby was on the bench.  Loved it.

1991 (baseball) Twins vs Braves World Series game 6

Hard to have a better game – in a more thrilling setting – than Kirby had in this one.  Still remember Leibrandt weeping as he walked off the mound at the end. 

1997 (men’s college basketball) Minnesota vs Clemson NCAA regional semifinal

Perfect timing, we were in San Antonio for one night on a big car trip (Disneyland, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon etc.) brining my in-laws to California for their return to Japan after visiting us in Mexico, where I was working at the time.  I got a great seat from a scalper for a great game.  Sam I Am was great in the fist half, Jackson was unreal (playing a jillion minutes with 4 fouls) in the second half and overtimes.   

Don’t know if the 1972 college basketball game between Minnesota and Indiana counts as live or television, since I saw it a couple of hundred feet away from the action on the big screen in the hockey arena with the crowd that couldn’t get into the game.

Special historic note for tiny Sherburn winning the final single class Minnesota high school basketball tournament.  They proved that non-metro teams could win long before my old alma mater did.

Special mention to the “Niedermeyer – dead!” baseball game between Minnesota and Northwestern.

TELEVISION

1967 (baseball) Twins vs Red Sox final weekend

The last two games of the regular season were awful for a Twins fan, but great games to cap a great season.

1969 (high school hockey) Warroad vs. Edina state championship game

Edina could have made a seamless transition to WWF villain after this one.

1972 (Olympic basketball) USA vs USSR Olympic gold medal game

Great game, great ending, great drama that never ends.

1974 (men’s college basketball) UCLA vs North Carolina State national semi final

UCLA had a lot of exciting games that season (Notre Dame came from 11 down with 3 minutes left to end their 88 game winning streak, there was a great Maryland game I saw live, and a couple of earlier nailbiters in the tournament) but this was a classic.  David Thompson, Tom Burleson, Monte Towe (6’4, 7’4 and 5’4) and future MLB journeyman Tim Stoddard beat John Wooden and Bill Walton, Keith Wilkes, Dave (brother of Ann) Meyers, a team so deep they had Marques Johnson and Richard Washington (and 7’2 Ralph Drollinger) coming off the bench!  Won’t see college basketball like that anymore, even with the one year stay in school rule. 

1975 (NBA basketball) Phoenix Suns vs. Boston Celtics game 6 NBA Finals

Not only the shot “Heard” round the world, but a great, great game by Paul Westphal.  It was great to shut up Red Auerbach and Tommy Heinsohn and Johnny Most and the Celtic crowd in mid celebration.  Too bad they got to celebrate anyway when it was over.

1982 (men’s college basketball) Minnesota vs Iowa

Gophers beat Hawkeyes to take the Big Ten lead (they officially won the title the next week with their last game, against Ohio State as I recall.)  So many things to like about this one.  The Gophers won on the road in front of rabid fans – in the last game ever at the old Iowa fieldhouse.  Each clock ending was dramatic, from Breuer’s block at the end of regulation to send it to overtime, to Zebedee Howell’s steal to close one overtime period, to the final foul that allowed Darryl Mitchell to hit the winning free throws with no time left on the clock.  And we beat Lute.  Great stuff.  

1991 (baseball) Twins vs Braves World Series game 7

A great game, a great performance, and the climax to the best series I have seen in any sport.

2003 (college football) St. John’s vs. Mount Union Division 3  national championship game

I wrote at length about this game elsewhere.  The perfect corny Hollywood script come to life.

2004 (women’s college basketball) Minnesota vs Duke NCAA regional final

Lindsay beats (gak) Duke’s player of the year (no regional or demographic bias in that selection) to cap the great turnaround following the long deserved ouster of Cheryl (I was fired for racial reasons!) Littlejohn.

2006 (men’s college basketball) Winona State vs Virginia Union Division 2 national championship game 

Winona State was in charge much of the game, but great to see Minnesota small college basketball triumph.

The 2006 playoff run by the Phoenix Suns, and all those great Magic-Bird matchups from the 80’s, deserve to be here somewhere, but which games?

Speaking of Bird and Magic, the special historic note would be their 1979 NCAA championship game.  Not really as a great game as many remember, but what a portent of things to come.

Special mention the 1998 World Cup, where I watched the end of the game at the Consulate in Monterrey as the Mexican’s team diminutive star squeezed past two giant Dutch defenders to score the tying goal as time expired.  As I said at the time, when I watched that final rush I saw him pass from star to hero to legend within the space of a few seconds.  The Mexican staff at the Consulate absolutely went wild with joy.  Really great moment. 

I hate the Red Sox, so I won’t include the 2004 ALCS.

VIDEOTAPE -1

1976 (ABA basketball) Nets vs Nuggets championship game

I saw this many years later on ESPN Classic.  What a great game, and what a perfect way for the ABA to go out.

1980 (Olympic hockey) USA vs USSR Olympic hockey semi final

You may have heard of this one.

1982 (college football) Stanford vs Cal

“Oh my God, the band is on the field!”  I went to UCLA, and our most hated rival was not USC, it was the Stanford band.  Seriously.  They were the most obnoxious bunch of spoiled brats you could imagine.  As I watched the greatest play of all time in any sport, I was screaming (in joy) at the television “Daddy can’t get you out of this one!”

2007 (high school boys hockey) Hermantown vs Warroad class A state semifinal

2007 (high school boys hockey) St. Thomas Academy vs Duluth Marshall class A state semifinal

2007 (high school boys hockey) Grand Rapids vs Burnsville class AA state semifinal

Don’t know if these three hockey games will make the lists next year, but they were great games that are still fresh in my mind, and this is a comparatively new category.  The three basketball games that follow, however, will stay on the list forever.

2007 (high school boys basketball) Ellsworth vs Cass Lake-Bena class A state championship game

Just a great game, with a great star from a high school with less than 50 students, and a great opponent whose fans sing the Chippewa tribal anthem along with the national anthem.

2007 (high school boys basketball) Buffalo vs Lakeville South class AAAA state semifinal

I wrote about this at length too, but with the injured star, the big mean football players from the big bad suburban school, it was thrilling stuff for a Buffalo alum to watch.

2007 (high school boys basketball) Buffalo vs Robbinsdale Armstrong class AAAA state championship game

I also wrote about this at length, but the game itself was better played than the semifinal, and the double digit comeback in the second half – with an injured star, a second star woozy from a fall, a third starter playing ill with the flu, a distinct size disadvantage at every position, and the star of the game battling foul trouble – with a last second basket to win the championship in my alma mater’s first appearance in the state tournament in 76 YEARS was really like a dream come true.  (And the fact that the team genuinely seemed like really good kids, and the fact that the crowd was clearly rooting my school on, was icing on the cake.)

Special historic note would be the 2001 Cretin-Derham Hall vs Osseo high school boys basketball class AAAA state semifinal.  Cretin put on the greatest three-point shooting display in the first half that I had seen to that point, but Osseo came back in the second half to beat them.  Good game, but not ten best.  I will hang onto that videotape, though, to watch a very talented Joe Mauer play basketball.

RADIO

Don’t have ten, but I have a couple.

1968 (college football) Minnesota vs USC

John Wintermute’s late, slow motion kickoff return touchdown after receiving a lateral gave the Gophers a fourth quarter lead, but O.J. broke our hearts on the final drive.

1973 (college baseball) Minnesota vs USC College World Series

Speaking of breaking our hearts, I remember listening to this while squirming in my car at Lake Minnetonka.

True, but.  Some choices are so egregiously bad they deserve mention.
And the article did defend other choices that have been criticized, so
they weren't merely dissing anyone in sight.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve and Felicia Holgate [mailto:holgatefamily@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:29 PM
To: Holst, Alan R; brian_burns@...; halseyhall@yahoogroups.com;
mnbuckets@yahoogroups.com; mnsports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: FW: ESPN.com: Schoenfield: Lamest MVP winners


Can't judge on most of those, but I get a little weary of the tons of
articles about who is overrated.  It's like the writers feel a need to
be
superior to someone, anyone.  And we eat it up.

I remember some article in Esquire years and years ago, asking various
writers to say who they thought were the most overrated and underrated
writers.  Most of them happily agreed to dish.  But Tennesse Williams (I

said it was a long time ago), after giving the name of a writer he
thought
underrated said that no writer who takes his craft seriously is
overrated.
Good for him.

>From: "Holst, Alan R" <HolstAR@...>
>To: "brian burns" <brian_burns@...>,"Steve and Felicia Holgate"
><holgatefamily@...>,<halseyhall@yahoogroups.com>,<mnbuckets@yah
oogroups.com>,<mnsports@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: FW: ESPN.com: Schoenfield: Lamest MVP winners
>Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:14:31 +0300
>
>
>Some pretty good choices, including defense of those that were not
lame.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: alanholst@... [mailto:alanholst@...]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:33 PM
>To: Holst, Alan R
>Subject: ESPN.com: Schoenfield: Lamest MVP winners
>
>You have received this ESPN.com mail from:
>
>Alan
>alanholst@...
>
>The "Schoenfield: Lamest MVP winners" story is located at
>http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/070515&spor
t
>Cat=nba
>
>I thought you might find this story interesting.
>Alan
>
>ESPN SportsFlash - Customized Headlines and Scores sent daily.
>ESPN.com's daily headlines can be delivered to you each day by
>subscribing to SportsFlash today.
>http://dynamic.espn.go.com/espn/beacon/email

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now!
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

Some pretty good choices, including defense of those that were not lame.

-----Original Message-----
From: alanholst@... [mailto:alanholst@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:33 PM
To: Holst, Alan R
Subject: ESPN.com: Schoenfield: Lamest MVP winners

You have received this ESPN.com mail from:

Alan
alanholst@...

The "Schoenfield: Lamest MVP winners" story is located at
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/070515&sport
Cat=nba

I thought you might find this story interesting.
Alan

ESPN SportsFlash - Customized Headlines and Scores sent daily.
ESPN.com's daily headlines can be delivered to you each day by
subscribing to SportsFlash today.
http://dynamic.espn.go.com/espn/beacon/email

Here's an interesting article on the future of fighting from the New
York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/08/sports/hockey/08hockey.html?
ref=hockey

It's especially insightful in that the names Boogaard and Bernstein
are not mentioned.


By the way, is anyone else besides George and me out there?  Are
others at least reading these posts even if you're not chiming in,
which is ok?  I'm just wondering.  If this forum has gotten down to
just George and me, we can just communicate directly.

Thanks.

Stew

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "grekela" <grekela@...> wrote:
hockey hack Ross Bernstein, who
> reveals:  "I thought I knew a lot about hockey.  It turns out I knew
> nothing."  Ross, why use past tense, when present will do nicely?

Now there's a great line.

Oh, well, City Pages is still good for reading the personal ads and
fantasizing (not that I could beat what I now have).

Stew

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "stewthornley" <stew@...> wrote:
>
> Letter of the day in the March 31 Star Tribune:
>
> http://www.startribune.com/563/story/1091104.html
>
>
> Michael Russo's March 25 column about the possible elimination of
> fighting in the National Hockey League has some quotes from Derek
> Boogaard that indicate Boogaard seems to think he's the main
> attraction at the Xcel Energy Center.  Boogaard says, "If you take
> fighting out of hockey, it might be exciting for 10, 30 games, and
> then the rinks will start emptying." All one has to do is look at
> the popularity of the sport at levels where fighting is dealt with
> in terms of suspensions, not just a five-minute penalty, to see that
> this is not the case. Mariucci Arena is packed every game, and the
> high school tournament is as popular as ever. And I have no doubt
> that my fellow fans at Wild games would continue to enthusiastically
> turn out and cheer their team even if Boogaard and his fighting were
> to disappear.
>
> It should be remembered that Boogaard has a vested interest in what
> happens. His limited hockey skills means he will be out a job if
> fighting is eliminated.
>
>
> JAE HUDSON, MINNEAPOLIS
>
City Pages, once a reliable weekly tabloid, now a shadow of its former
self (ace reporter Britt Robson couldn't take it anymore and left),
has a cover story on St. Paul's Darling, Derek Boogaard:  Boogeyman
Drops The Gloves, March 28, 2007.  Of course no such article would be
complete without "insight" from hockey hack Ross Bernstein, who
reveals:  "I thought I knew a lot about hockey.  It turns out I knew
nothing."  Ross, why use past tense, when present will do nicely?
City Pages writer Kevin Hoffman went down wrong a terribly wrong path
the moment he consulted Bernstein, and it gets worse.  Hoffman
positively idolizes Boogey, who responds with wrongheaded quotes such
as:  "There's a ton of people who say I shouldn't play in the NHL.
It's a good feeling to prove those people wrong." and "When I go out
there and fight, it's just like scoring a goal."  Apparently Boogaard
knows less about hockey than Ross Bernstein, if that's possible.
Hoffman sums up with a blow-by-blow account of Boogey vs. the Blues'
D.J. King at the Excel Center:  "The Wild are up 4-1 and menace hangs
in the air.  The next faceoff, the Boogeyman lines up opposite Blues
left wing D.J. King.  The Boogeyman hesitates.  He looks to coach
Lemaire for approval.  Getting it, the Boogeyman drops his gloves."

In other words, like some pre-programmed Frankenstein, Boogey looks to
his creator, who tells him:  "Go my son.  Go and kill."  The monster
slowly replies, "YES, MASTER."  Beautiful.
Geo

My editing in the first paragraph of Eveleth Goalies posting did not
take.  Consequently, "Canadiens" was not substituted for "Rangers"

Roger Godin came up with an interesting newspaper clipping detailing a
NHL hockey game between Boston and Montreal on Feb. 29, 1940.  In the
nets for the Bruins was Frankie Brimsek.  The Montreal goalie was Mike
Karakas.  (Bruins won 4-2.)  This was one of only five games in which
Karakas appeared in goal for the Rangers that season.  A

I seem to recall a posting in which it was stated that at one time in
the history of the game the three best goaltenders in the league
hailed from Eveleth, Minn.  The apparent implication was that Brimsek,
Karakas, and Sam Lopresti were dazzling the NHL in the nets at the
same time in league history.  (Brimsek with Boston, Karakas with
Montreal, and Lopresti with Chicago.) That season would have to have
been 1939-40, which coincides with the clip that Roger found.
However, Lopresti did not appear on the NHL scene until the 1940-41
season. By this time, Karakas is in the AHL with Providence.  Lopresti
departs the NHL following the 1941-42 season, never to return.
Karakas, however makes it back to the league in the 1943-44 season
when Brimsek is in the Coast Guard.  Karakas is in goal for the
Chicago Black Hawks in the 1945-46 season when Brimsek returns from
the service.  However, he is back in Providence for the 1946-47 season
and never returns to the NHL.  Brimsek continues to play until 1950.

For the record, Karakas was born in Aurora, Minn., and Lopresti was
born in Virginia, Minn.  Only Mister Zero was born in Eveleth.
GEO

Letter of the day in the March 31 Star Tribune:

http://www.startribune.com/563/story/1091104.html


Michael Russo's March 25 column about the possible elimination of
fighting in the National Hockey League has some quotes from Derek
Boogaard that indicate Boogaard seems to think he's the main
attraction at the Xcel Energy Center.  Boogaard says, "If you take
fighting out of hockey, it might be exciting for 10, 30 games, and
then the rinks will start emptying." All one has to do is look at
the popularity of the sport at levels where fighting is dealt with
in terms of suspensions, not just a five-minute penalty, to see that
this is not the case. Mariucci Arena is packed every game, and the
high school tournament is as popular as ever. And I have no doubt
that my fellow fans at Wild games would continue to enthusiastically
turn out and cheer their team even if Boogaard and his fighting were
to disappear.

It should be remembered that Boogaard has a vested interest in what
happens. His limited hockey skills means he will be out a job if
fighting is eliminated.


JAE HUDSON, MINNEAPOLIS

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "stewthornley" <stew@...> wrote:
>
> I'm hoping to get more activity on this list, and I'm desperate
> enough to hope that a topic on hockey will do it.
>
> In today's Star Tribune (Sunday, March 25, 2007), Michael Russo had
> a column suggesting that the NHL might have to really come down on
> fighting because the goons are getting so big that players are
> starting to really get hurt in the fights.
>
> Now, I'm grateful that for insight into this column, Russo did not
> go to a new book written by a local alleged writer (one who has put
> out books that could be the worst of the 21st century--not to
> mention the 20th century and maybe even the 19th century).  Instead,
> Russo sought the opinions of Derek Boogaard of the Minnesota Wild,
> to wit:
>
> Boogaard, Minnesota's 6-7, 250-pound fighter, says the fans'
> reaction -- the crowd was cheering and standing -- when he fought
> St. Louis' D.J. King on Thursday "shows it's meant to be in the
> game. If you take fighting out of hockey, it might be exciting for
> 10, 30 games, and then the rinks will start emptying," Boogaard said.
>
> To his credit, Russo did get comments from others, including those
> who don't have a vested interest in preserving fighting.  In
> Boogard's case, it seems clear he wouldn't be in the NHL, and maybe
> not anywhere in professional hockey, if goons weren't needed.
>
> As for Boogaard's attempt at logic in saying that that hockey won't
> be able to survive without fighting, what about the popularity of
> international hockey, college hockey, high school hockey?  The sport
> at these levels may still have some, as they say, "chippiness," but
> the penalties for fighting are severe enough that it pretty much has
> eliminated it.  That hasn't emptied Mariucci Arena.
>
> Another comment by Boogaard is too stupid to respond to: "Guys get
> knocked out when they get hit. Why don't they take body checking out
> of hockey?"
>
> Meanwhile, last night Boogaard was named the number three star of
> the game.  His contribution was a fight with the Kings' top goon in
> the closing minutes.  We've long been able to see how meaningless
> these three stars selections are, but the inclusion of Boogaard on
> the star list brought it to a new low.
>
> Stew
>
It's clear that Boogaard's occupation is something other than hockey
player.  He is employed in the NHL to play the role of goon.  Further,
the Russo story ended with this Boogaard quote about Todd Fedoruk:
"Hopefully he gets it together over this summer and gets back at it
next year."  Question:  What is "it"?

Geo

I'm hoping to get more activity on this list, and I'm desperate
enough to hope that a topic on hockey will do it.

In today's Star Tribune (Sunday, March 25, 2007), Michael Russo had
a column suggesting that the NHL might have to really come down on
fighting because the goons are getting so big that players are
starting to really get hurt in the fights.

Now, I'm grateful that for insight into this column, Russo did not
go to a new book written by a local alleged writer (one who has put
out books that could be the worst of the 21st century--not to
mention the 20th century and maybe even the 19th century).  Instead,
Russo sought the opinions of Derek Boogaard of the Minnesota Wild,
to wit:

Boogaard, Minnesota's 6-7, 250-pound fighter, says the fans'
reaction -- the crowd was cheering and standing -- when he fought
St. Louis' D.J. King on Thursday "shows it's meant to be in the
game. If you take fighting out of hockey, it might be exciting for
10, 30 games, and then the rinks will start emptying," Boogaard said.

To his credit, Russo did get comments from others, including those
who don't have a vested interest in preserving fighting.  In
Boogard's case, it seems clear he wouldn't be in the NHL, and maybe
not anywhere in professional hockey, if goons weren't needed.

As for Boogaard's attempt at logic in saying that that hockey won't
be able to survive without fighting, what about the popularity of
international hockey, college hockey, high school hockey?  The sport
at these levels may still have some, as they say, "chippiness," but
the penalties for fighting are severe enough that it pretty much has
eliminated it.  That hasn't emptied Mariucci Arena.

Another comment by Boogaard is too stupid to respond to: "Guys get
knocked out when they get hit. Why don't they take body checking out
of hockey?"

Meanwhile, last night Boogaard was named the number three star of
the game.  His contribution was a fight with the Kings' top goon in
the closing minutes.  We've long been able to see how meaningless
these three stars selections are, but the inclusion of Boogaard on
the star list brought it to a new low.

Stew