I'm hoping to get more activity on this list, and I'm desperate
enough to hope that a topic on hockey will do it.

In today's Star Tribune (Sunday, March 25, 2007), Michael Russo had
a column suggesting that the NHL might have to really come down on
fighting because the goons are getting so big that players are
starting to really get hurt in the fights.

Now, I'm grateful that for insight into this column, Russo did not
go to a new book written by a local alleged writer (one who has put
out books that could be the worst of the 21st century--not to
mention the 20th century and maybe even the 19th century).  Instead,
Russo sought the opinions of Derek Boogaard of the Minnesota Wild,
to wit:

Boogaard, Minnesota's 6-7, 250-pound fighter, says the fans'
reaction -- the crowd was cheering and standing -- when he fought
St. Louis' D.J. King on Thursday "shows it's meant to be in the
game. If you take fighting out of hockey, it might be exciting for
10, 30 games, and then the rinks will start emptying," Boogaard said.

To his credit, Russo did get comments from others, including those
who don't have a vested interest in preserving fighting.  In
Boogard's case, it seems clear he wouldn't be in the NHL, and maybe
not anywhere in professional hockey, if goons weren't needed.

As for Boogaard's attempt at logic in saying that that hockey won't
be able to survive without fighting, what about the popularity of
international hockey, college hockey, high school hockey?  The sport
at these levels may still have some, as they say, "chippiness," but
the penalties for fighting are severe enough that it pretty much has
eliminated it.  That hasn't emptied Mariucci Arena.

Another comment by Boogaard is too stupid to respond to: "Guys get
knocked out when they get hit. Why don't they take body checking out
of hockey?"

Meanwhile, last night Boogaard was named the number three star of
the game.  His contribution was a fight with the Kings' top goon in
the closing minutes.  We've long been able to see how meaningless
these three stars selections are, but the inclusion of Boogaard on
the star list brought it to a new low.

Stew

There was an interesting Netlet on the Star Tribune web site today
at: http://www.startribune.com/563/story/1056999.html

It contained some different insights on the subject.  Here is the
letter:

High School League transfer rule puts adults before students

My daughter is a student who transferred from a charter to another
district's public school after the beginning of her ninth grade.
(She already swam for the public school team through a collaborative
agreement with her charter.) However, she needed to transfer to
maximize her time, in addition to educational and athletic reasons.

To my daughter, varsity swimming is a lifeline for her academic and
holistic health, and it teaches far more than winning. It teaches
time management, working with fellow swimmers to set team standards
high, and balancing a sport with academics. To sit out varsity
participation would have been devastating for her.

I would imagine, too, that many low-income students of color who
attend charters have benefited from the freedom to move to public
school district athletic programs. To make it incumbent upon these
students and their families to fill out waivers, or to have their
students sit out varsity participation at a time that is critical to
their development as students and as athletes, is unfairly
restrictive. I have to wonder if the Minnesota State High School
League's board of directors, with only one member of color and no
representatives from Minneapolis or St. Paul urban areas, is
thinking at all of the needs of urban children.

Why should even a small group of students be punished because of
abuse of the system by adults? Why should they have to take on the
burden of adult miscommunication and unethical behavior? Students
must never be penalized because coaches and other adults
aggressively recruit star athletes. Their needs must come first.


KATE TOWLE, MINNEAPOLIS

A celebrity dunk competition that includes Ken Griffey Jr., Deion Sanders and Mike Conley Sr. (Olympic long jump champion and father of current Ohio State guard.)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKDDJH_aU9s

I can't find a link to an on-line story on this, but I read in the Star
Tribune this morning that a legislator has a bill regarding the High
School League's new rule on transfers.  It doesn't sound like he's
serious on stopping the rule, just bringing in the League to explain it
more.

Marc, do you have any insights on this?  Is this one of the legislators
you lobbied?

Stew

The Vikings have a pretty good deal on season tickets, their 1961
package, meaning they are selling season tickets for $196.10 each,
plus a $4 processing fee per order.  These are for tickets in the
corners in the top rows of the upper deck.

George Rekela and I bought a half-season ticket (5 games, including
one exhibition game) for about $200 last year, and this year they
are selling full season tickets for about the same amount.  Today
George and I bought a pair of season tickets, which are in Section
233, Row 31, Seats 7 and 8.  Row 31 is the top row, so we're up
there a ways, but it's nice to be in the top row since it's easy to
stand up and not worry about blocking people behind you in case
people in front of you are standing up.

They have season tickets open in the seats next to us (3, 4, 5, and
6) in case anyone else is interested in purchasing them and sitting
next to us.  If anyone is, contact Steve Reed at the Vikings at 612-
228-4537 (direct line 952-918-8411).

When I got them today, I went up to the actual seats.  These are
between the 5 and 10 yard line in the left-field corner.  For the
price, they're pretty good.

Stew

 
 

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mnsports%40yahoogroups.com> , "stewthornley" <stew@...> wrote:
>
> Marc's letter will be in the Monday Star Tribune.  It's now on-line at:
>
> http://www.startribune.com/563/story/977849.html
>
>
> Stew
>Apparently all of Marc's letter wasn't used.  He mentions a "nuanced
solution" but the letter published in the Star Tribune doesn't outline
what the solution is. As for the "unscrupulous coaches," how would the
MSHSL go about identifying them, determining their crimes, and
enforcing punishment?
GRR

 
    

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "stewthornley" <stew@...> wrote:
>
> Marc's letter will be in the Monday Star Tribune.  It's now on-line at:
>
> http://www.startribune.com/563/story/977849.html
>
>
> Stew
>Apparently all of Marc's letter wasn't used.  He mentions a "nuanced
solution" but the letter published in the Star Tribune doesn't outline
what the solution is. As for the "unscrupulous coaches," how would the
MSHSL go about identifying them, determining their crimes, and
enforcing punishment?
GRR

Marc's letter will be in the Monday Star Tribune.  It's now on-line at:

http://www.startribune.com/563/story/977849.html


Stew

This is pretty creepy.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/news/story?id=2748372

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@...> wrote:
>
> I think the ruling is based on an idiotic legal premise.  It seems
to be
> allowing certain professions to lie and defame because "that's what
they
> do."
>
> As far as Sid's case, the key part to me wasn't even mentioned in
the
> story.  If Sid was accurate that Hunter performed 12 knee surgeries
in
> 82 and - more importantly for the defamation part - only a third of
them
> or less did play again, then he seems to me to have been on solid
> ground.  Whether the implication was fair or not, his claim
that "hardly
> any" played again would have been correct if viewed with a generous
> interpretation, which I think is called for when charging
defamation.
> And if his claim was factually correct, then to me there is no
case.  If
> half of them - or more - did come back to play, then I don't see
how Sid
> being a sports talk guy absolves him of defamation.


Those are good points, and one might have to look up the actual
lawsuit to find out those things for sure.  For what it's worth, here
is an abstract summary from the August 8, 1995 Star Tribune (page 7B):

"A defamation lawsuit filed almost two years ago against Sid Hartman,
a Star Tribune sports columnist and radio personality, was dismissed
Friday by a Hennepin County judge.

"The suit, filed in December 1993, alleged that Hartman, cohost of
the WCCO-AM Radio call-in show 'Sports Huddle,' said that Dr. Robert
Hunter unsuccessfully operated on 12 football players in 1982 and
that none ever returned to football."

Here's another abstract, this one from the April 16, 1996 Star
Tribune (page 3B):

"The Minnesota Court of Appeals has blocked a defamation lawsuit
against Sid Hartman, a Star Tribune sports columnist and WCCO radio
personality, finding in part that courts must take into account the
opinion-spewing nature of live sports talk shows.

"The Appeals Court upheld a lower court's decision to throw out the
lawsuit against Hartman by Dr. Robert Hunter, a former orthopedic
consultant to the University of Minnesota Athletic Department."

Another abstract, from the December 8, 1993 Star Tribune (page 5B):

Surgeon sues Sid Hartman for defamation
"The suit alleges that [Sid Hartman]'s comments were made because he
was upset that [Robert Hunter] had been interviewed for the
book 'Under the Tarnished Dome,' which criticizes Notre Dame football
coach Lou Holtz. Hartman is a longtime friend of Holtz's, the suit
says."

One could look up the full text of these articles at a library, but
it might be more productive to go to Hennepin County and see what can
be gleaned from their records of the lawsuits.


Stew

Jerry Janzen and I just returned from a night of covering the
Minnesota RollerGirls.  In the bouts, the Atomic Bombshells beat the
Garda Belts 56-24 and the Rockits beat the Dagger Dolls 30-15.

Jawbreaker of the Rockits was probably the best player out there
although her teammate, Harmony Killerbruise, was pretty good, too.  It
was disappointing that Sayonara Pussy didn't play for the Dagger
Dolls; she just served as the team manager, but Dixxxie Wrect had a
fine bout for the Dolls.

Cleosplatra, Mitzi Massacre, and Flora Flipabitch led the Atomic
Bombshells, a veteran team, in a rout over the Garda Belts, a young
team with many rookies, although they had some fine players, including
Ann E. Briated, Hanna Belle Lector, and Suzie Smashbox.

Stew

Ditto Frank Cirrone, 90’s hockey player for Wisconsin Stevens Point.

_____________________________________________
From: Holst, Alan R
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:15 PM
To: 'mnsports@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: anothe research question

Does anyone know if Amy Albers, Washington (St. Louis) volleyball player, went to high school in Minnesota?

Does anyone know if Amy Albers, Washington (St. Louis) volleyball player, went to high school in Minnesota?

Does anyone know, or know where I can find, the date of birth, place of birth and/or high schools attended for these individuals?

Karl Anderson (Minnesota born track and field athlete)

Bob Fitch (Gopher track and field athlete)

Brad James (Gopher golf coach)

Jim Kelly (Gopher track and field coach)

Bev Vanstrum (Minnesota golfer)

Charles Johnson (Minneapolis Star and Tribune sports editor)

Also, does anyone know of any comprehensive list by place of birth and/or college for NFL all stars (Pro Bowl and/or College All Star Game) and NHL all stars?

Finally, does anyone know if Joe Visner held an all time minor league record?  (Our stuff, including my books, have not yet arrived from the United States.)

 
 

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mnsports%40yahoogroups.com> , "stewthornley" <stew@...> wrote:
>
> In this column, Kate Parry says that Sid told her she'll get 100
> calls in favor of Sid for every call she gets supporting her.
>
> If you would like to e-mail any comments about the column to Kate (in
> support of her or in support of Sid), her e-mail address is:
>
> readerrep@...
>
>
> Stew
>
> --- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mnsports%40yahoogroups.com> , "stewthornley" <stew@> wrote:
>
> >
> > Meanwhile, Sid is the subject of another conflict-of-interest
> > controversy, which Kate Parry covered in her Reader Rep column
> > yesterday:
> >
> > http://www.startribune.com/161/story/947956.html
> >
> > Stew
> >
>
I came across Kate Parry's Readers Rep column of June 19 in which Sid
Hartman is quoted as saying:

"I've got a unique situation.  There can be a little different rules
for all I've done for this newspaper.

"There's nobody else who's done more for this paper.  That's why it
could be right for me and not for someone else.

"If someone else tried to do it, it would be a different story.  What
I do in this newsroom, no one else comes close to."

Perhaps we should consider changing the name of Minneapolis
Star-Tribune to the Minneapolis Hartman Tribune.

Geo

 
    

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "stewthornley" <stew@...> wrote:
>
> In this column, Kate Parry says that Sid told her she'll get 100
> calls in favor of Sid for every call she gets supporting her.
>
> If you would like to e-mail any comments about the column to Kate (in
> support of her or in support of Sid), her e-mail address is:
>
> readerrep@...
>
>
> Stew
>
> --- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "stewthornley" <stew@> wrote:
>
> >
> > Meanwhile, Sid is the subject of another conflict-of-interest
> > controversy, which Kate Parry covered in her Reader Rep column
> > yesterday:
> >
> > http://www.startribune.com/161/story/947956.html
> >
> > Stew
> >
>
I came across Kate Parry's Readers Rep column of June 19 in which Sid
Hartman is quoted as saying:

"I've got a unique situation.  There can be a little different rules
for all I've done for this newspaper.

"There's nobody else who's done more for this paper.  That's why it
could be right for me and not for someone else.

"If someone else tried to do it, it would be a different story.  What
I do in this newsroom, no one else comes close to."

Perhaps we should consider changing the name of Minneapolis
Star-Tribune to the Minneapolis Hartman Tribune.

Geo

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "stewthornley" <stew@...> wrote:
>
> In this column, Kate Parry says that Sid told her she'll get 100
> calls in favor of Sid for every call she gets supporting her.
>
> If you would like to e-mail any comments about the column to Kate (in
> support of her or in support of Sid), her e-mail address is:
>
> readerrep@...
>
>
> Stew
>
> --- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "stewthornley" <stew@> wrote:
>
> >
> > Meanwhile, Sid is the subject of another conflict-of-interest
> > controversy, which Kate Parry covered in her Reader Rep column
> > yesterday:
> >
> > http://www.startribune.com/161/story/947956.html
> >
> > Stew
> >
>

In this column, Kate Parry says that Sid told her she'll get 100
calls in favor of Sid for every call she gets supporting her.

If you would like to e-mail any comments about the column to Kate (in
support of her or in support of Sid), her e-mail address is:

readerrep@...


Stew

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "stewthornley" <stew@...> wrote:

>
> Meanwhile, Sid is the subject of another conflict-of-interest
> controversy, which Kate Parry covered in her Reader Rep column
> yesterday:
>
> http://www.startribune.com/161/story/947956.html
>
> Stew
>

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, marc hugunin <marc@...> wrote:
>
> Headlines I¹d like to see:
>
> Court rules that ³sports journalism² is an oxymoron
>
> Marc
>


Well, it would certainly be an oxymoron with regard to sports talk
radio, but I shot my wad in a recent rant on that topic.

Meanwhile, Sid is the subject of another conflict-of-interest
controversy, which Kate Parry covered in her Reader Rep column
yesterday:

http://www.startribune.com/161/story/947956.html

Stew

 
 

I'm posting this more for George's benefit, but I thought I'd put it
here in case anyone else is interested.

This was from a lawsuit filed by Dr. Robert Hunter, who had leveled
some charges against Lou Holst, which resulted in Sid Hartman trying
to discredit him.

The dismissal of the lawsuit wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement of
Sid's accuracy, especially this part of the opinion:

The court observed that "sports commentary is marked not only by
spontaneity, but by the often exaggerated and uncareful exchange of
vehemently held opinions; listeners understand the atmosphere of
overstatement and 'take such railings with a grain of salt'."

In his autobiography, Sid mentioned that he won this lawsuit,
implying that Hunter's charges against him were without merit. If
anything, it's a rebuke of sports talk radio.

Below is the story from a "News Media Update" website.

Stew

Sports radio remarks 'exaggerated and uncareful,' but protected
05/20/96

MINNESOTA--Remarks made during a live sports talk radio program
should be considered in context and taken with a grain of salt, a
three-judge panel of the state Court of Appeals in St. Paul ruled in
a unanimous opinion in mid-April.

The court upheld the summary judgment dismissal of a defamation suit
brought against local sports commentator Sid Hartman and CBS that was
based on comments Hartman made about a former orthopedic consultant
to the University of Minnesota football team.

The plaintiff, Robert Hunter, contended that Hartman's remark that
Hunter had performed knee surgery on 12 players in 1982 and "hardly
any of them came back to play at all" was a charge of incompetence.
But the court found "at least five layers of context" that negated
that claim.

The court observed that "sports commentary is marked not only by
spontaneity, but by the often exaggerated and uncareful exchange of
vehemently held opinions; listeners understand the atmosphere of
overstatement and 'take such railings with a grain of salt'."

The court noted that Hartman's remark was ambiguous, especially
considered along with other comments he made during the radio show.
At one point, Hartman said, "I did not say he was incompetent."

In addition, the court considered "the larger context of public
debate" in which Hunter had criticized former Minnesota football
coach Lou Holtz for pushing injured athletes to play before they were
ready. In that context, Hartman's comments could be seen as "an
attack on [Hunter's] prudence rather than his professional skill,"
the court found.

The court concluded that Hartman's remarks were, "if not mere
hyperbole, at least supportable interpretations that do not assert an
objective fact." (Hunter v. Hartman; Media Counsel: John Borger, Eric
Jorstad, Minneapolis)

The link to this story is:

http://www.rcfp.org/news/1996/0520n.html

 
    

I'm posting this more for George's benefit, but I thought I'd put it
here in case anyone else is interested.

This was from a lawsuit filed by Dr. Robert Hunter, who had leveled
some charges against Lou Holst, which resulted in Sid Hartman trying
to discredit him.

The dismissal of the lawsuit wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement of
Sid's accuracy, especially this part of the opinion:

The court observed that "sports commentary is marked not only by
spontaneity, but by the often exaggerated and uncareful exchange of
vehemently held opinions; listeners understand the atmosphere of
overstatement and 'take such railings with a grain of salt'."

In his autobiography, Sid mentioned that he won this lawsuit,
implying that Hunter's charges against him were without merit. If
anything, it's a rebuke of sports talk radio.

Below is the story from a "News Media Update" website.

Stew


Sports radio remarks 'exaggerated and uncareful,' but protected
05/20/96

MINNESOTA--Remarks made during a live sports talk radio program
should be considered in context and taken with a grain of salt, a
three-judge panel of the state Court of Appeals in St. Paul ruled in
a unanimous opinion in mid-April.

The court upheld the summary judgment dismissal of a defamation suit
brought against local sports commentator Sid Hartman and CBS that was
based on comments Hartman made about a former orthopedic consultant
to the University of Minnesota football team.

The plaintiff, Robert Hunter, contended that Hartman's remark that
Hunter had performed knee surgery on 12 players in 1982 and "hardly
any of them came back to play at all" was a charge of incompetence.
But the court found "at least five layers of context" that negated
that claim.

The court observed that "sports commentary is marked not only by
spontaneity, but by the often exaggerated and uncareful exchange of
vehemently held opinions; listeners understand the atmosphere of
overstatement and 'take such railings with a grain of salt'."

The court noted that Hartman's remark was ambiguous, especially
considered along with other comments he made during the radio show.
At one point, Hartman said, "I did not say he was incompetent."

In addition, the court considered "the larger context of public
debate" in which Hunter had criticized former Minnesota football
coach Lou Holtz for pushing injured athletes to play before they were
ready. In that context, Hartman's comments could be seen as "an
attack on [Hunter's] prudence rather than his professional skill,"
the court found.

The court concluded that Hartman's remarks were, "if not mere
hyperbole, at least supportable interpretations that do not assert an
objective fact." (Hunter v. Hartman; Media Counsel: John Borger, Eric
Jorstad, Minneapolis)


The link to this story is:

http://www.rcfp.org/news/1996/0520n.html

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, "Holst, Alan R" <holstar@...> wrote:
>
> For someone with a year on his hands, reading through every Sid
Hartman and Charley Walters column, and all the Strib all state
teams, would be a great way to add forgotten names to the list.


Check Joel Rippel's Minnesota Sports Almanac?  It has all-state
teams at least for football, and a lot of other info.  For those not
in this area, it's available through amazon.com at:

http://www.amazon.com/Minnesota-Sports-Almanac-Joel-
Rippel/dp/0873515587/sr=1-2/qid=1169307571/ref=sr_1_2/104-0955394-
1649500?ie=UTF8&s=books

Stew

(I'm going to invite Joel to be on this list.)

 
 

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mnsports%40yahoogroups.com> , marc hugunin <marc@...> wrote:
>
> Ouch.
>
> >
> > George and I went to the news conference yesterday and it became
> > eerie after a while as Brewster sounded more and more like Jim
> > Wacker.
> >
> > Stew
> >

The description that accompanied the link to the jump page on Nick
Coleman's typically inane column today said, "Tim Brewster is a
likable spouter of bromides."  That seems to be a pretty accurate
description.

Sid Hartman reports that Brewster, when he first met his players
Wednesday morning, had them chant "Big Ten champs" 10 times
and "Rose Bowl" about 10 times.  I guess if Brewster doesn't work
out as a football coach, they can retain him as head of the spirit
squad.

Stew

 
    

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com, marc hugunin <marc@...> wrote:
>
> Ouch.
>
> >
> > George and I went to the news conference yesterday and it became
> > eerie after a while as Brewster sounded more and more like Jim
> > Wacker.
> >
> > Stew
> >


The description that accompanied the link to the jump page on Nick
Coleman's typically inane column today said, "Tim Brewster is a
likable spouter of bromides."  That seems to be a pretty accurate
description.

Sid Hartman reports that Brewster, when he first met his players
Wednesday morning, had them chant "Big Ten champs" 10 times
and "Rose Bowl" about 10 times.  I guess if Brewster doesn't work
out as a football coach, they can retain him as head of the spirit
squad.

Stew

 
 

--- In mnsports@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mnsports%40yahoogroups.com> , SSmith2084@... wrote:
>
>  
> Hard to evaluate.  Iowa's hiring of Ferentz was essentially  
equivalent to
> hiring of Brewster in terms of experience.  The primary  
difference was that
> Ferentz was on Hayden Fry's staff for a decade at Iowa  before
spending another
> decade in the pros.   Illinois apparantly  hired Zook over
Brewster (who played
> at Illinois) a couple of years  ago.  Anyway, the hiring of
someone who has
> not had head coaching  experience is a crapshoot.  Remember that
the Iowa fans
> didn't think highly  of Ferentz his first couple of years.
>  
> I have to admit I was somewhat surprised as I expected a hire of
someone  
> with significant head coaching experience.
>  
> Steve Smith
> Burnsville MN

George and I went to the news conference yesterday and it became
eerie after a while as Brewster sounded more and more like Jim
Wacker.

Stew