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I think the problem us amateurs have vs. the professional recruiters is that a well-rounded high school player might be a great high school player. But at the next level at least one of those skills has to be really really really great. Dahlman is well-rounded. Janning can shoot. Abu-Shamala is well-rounded, and of course fundamentally very solid—ah, the kiss of death--but .at least he is physically strong for his size.
Almost all of the players on your 12 man team have done better than I expected (I never ever saw some of them—Martin, Price, Winkelman—in high school). But Woodside is not particularly quick, but kind of does it all—again, usually the kiss of death but, hey, he is at NDSU. OK, just kidding, they’re a great program. Mackenzie is the exception, I thought he would be better, but he is not a strong kid nor exceptionally quick nor exceptionally creative. Nolen is a lot like Mackenzie but quicker and more creative. He wasn’t as good in high school, maybe because he was a little too creative, tried to do too much. Mackenzie at least always played within himself. Nolen might be learning that.
Never thought Brielmaier would play. Never saw Leuer play. Aldrich will be good, not great. Very mechanical, kind of like a Raef LaFrentz, though that would be pretty good at the college level, not in the NBA. Tollackson has been better than expected, good head for the game, so-so physical skills but strong enough and tenacious. Never saw Gullickson, ironically, since I live in the Stillwater school district. Based on his rep, I am shocked that he’s contributing. Never thought Bryce Webster would be a player and I might be right on that one. And I’m not sure the big kid who transferred from Sibley to St. Bernard’s, what the hell was his name?, not sure he’s a player either, not at a Big East level anyway (went to Marquette, right?).
MN is a bit down right now (i.e. Senior class) but the junior class looks good. Hopkins is just rippling with big strong juniors and DeLaSalle and Cooper have one each. A whole bunch of muscular 6-8 clones. As to the seniors, the kid at Princeton (no, not Katie Loberg, the other one, what’s his name?) who is going to Wisconsin, haven’t seen him, by reputation he should be a lot better than Gullickson or Leuer but you never know. The kid from Rosemount who un-verballed after Tubby came...Tubby must have told him to go away, don’t you think? Why would a kid sign with Monson and walk away from Tubby otherwise? I don’t really think he’s a player.
If you’re not following the high schools real close, the big story right now is the consolidation of power. This is one that I did predict. Kids can no longer transfer after the first day of 9th grade, or else they lose a year’s eligibility. Well, nobody is going to do that. So what happened? All the kids are going to Hopkins and DeLaSalle and the other perennial powers right out of 8th grade, and more of them. Think about it. It used to be that a kid would play 9th and 10th grade ball and size up his prospects. If at that point he (or she) figured a D1 scholarship was in their future and if they figured (and somebody would TELL them) that they could play for Hopkins or whomever, THEN they’d transfer to the big name/big visibility school. Now, they can’t wait. They gotta decide. So they ALL go to the big name schools right out of the chute. And if after 9th or 10th grade they figure out that they can’t cut it there, tough shit.
So now you’re got 2 schools with a shot at the AAAA title—Hopkins and ‘Tonka. In AAA it’s Benilde, DeLaSalle and St. Thomas and that’s about it. Oh well, this too shall pass.
The Braham girls, BTW, have Dahlmans in 7th and 9th grade and they’re already starting for the varsity. The youngest Dahlman boy is a sophomore now and scoring about 5 ppg, not a star, never will be. But these girls, look out.
Marc
On 12/31/07 12:35 PM, "Alan Holst" <alanholst@...> wrote:
Thanks. I did not have a chance to see most of these kids play HS ball (the few I did see were on videotape from the State Tournament) but as a group they really are doing pretty well so far this season. From what I saw on those tapes, I agree about Noah Dahlman. Don't know if the Gophers would have been the right choice for him, but I did think he looked like a prospect for a higher level of competition than Wofford. (I could see him doing well even at a strong mid-major like the Missouri Valley Conference, for example.) I have never seen Janning play at any level. What kind of player is he? How is his athleticism, defense, shooting, playmaking etc.? How would you compare him to Hoffarber, for example? Also have never seen Woodside or Winkelman play. Both are on target for 2,000+ point careers for NDSU. Given their performance against good teams (like the upset of Wisconsin last year) they sure seem like Big Ten-caliber players. (Each was 1 point short of scoring 40 this season. I wonder how often two players from the same college team have had 40 point games in the same season?)
We could actually field TWO decent Big Ten teams with Minnesota kids this season. Funny how Isaiah Dahlman and Cory Johnson, who were 2 of the 3 biggest recruits (along with Cole Aldrich) to come out of Minnesota since Kris Humphries, would not make my cut for the all-Minnesota Gopher team this season. I am not real surprised by Dahlman (despite all his skills, not enough quickness to compensate for being so skinny) but I did think Johnson would do a little better than he has so far. You just never know about recruits. (By the way, Aldrich is a freshman on the #3 team in the nation, so I don't think we should take his limited minutes so far this season as anything except an indication of his team's depth. He still could have a fine college career for one of the premier teams in the country.)
Actually, who would you have recruited if you could have had any 12 in-state players for the Gophers, and who would you actually want as your 12 players now that we have actually seen how they play at the college level? Some hard choices. After eliminating Andrew Henke and Ryan Wittman from consideration (I assume basketball was not the only reason they chose Air Force and Cornell) these have probably been the best 12 players this year.
GUARDS Blake Hoffarber, Matt Janning, Romaine Martin, Lawrence McKenzie, Bruce Price, Ben Woodside
FORWARDS Dan Coleman, Eric Coleman, Bret Winkelman
CENTERS Cole Aldrich, Longar Longar, Spencer Tollackson
(Andre Gilbert has played more for Kansas State and had a 20 point game, but he has been very up and down. Aldrich has been very productive when he has played for Kansas -- nearly 15 rebounds per 40 minutes, and making over 60% of his FG attempts -- and the team could use another big man, so he would be my 12th man on this team.)
Realistically, for team chemistry and all, I would want some guys like Abu-Shamala, Brielmaier, Busch and Gullikson on my bench after the top 8. Freshmen Leuer and Nolen -- who have already shown more potential than Dahlman and Johnson -- would also be pretty good choices to fill out the bench, better still as redshirts. Maybe I should add Deonte Roberts to that list of promising freshmen. Did anyone predict that?
Of course if the Gophers had gotten all the biggest recruits we had wanted at the time, Dahlman and Johnson would be taking a couple of scholarships away from better college players. The list of the 12 players we most wanted to be Gophers coming out of HS would be quite different from the list of 12 best college players. When you look at the list at the end of this email, and consider who any of us would have given scholarships to at the time, there is no way the Gophers could have ended up with the current 12 best players. Who would have been your choices, at the time? Your thoughts please!
Anyway, lots of Minnesota talent in D1 right now. I really do wish at least one other Minnesota school would go D1, maybe two -- one mid-major and one at the NDSU/Wofford level. Some day.
Alan
P.S. I erred when I said Bruce Price leads Tennessee State in scoring and rebounding. I meant to say he leads them in scoring and assists. And I missed 3 Minnesota HS products I had not been aware of -- P.J. Hill of Minneapolis North (and Minneapolis South) now playing for Ohio State, Ben Nelson of Atwater-Cosmos-Grove City (now playing for Nebraska) and Angelo Johnson of USC, who played at prep schools his last 2 years of HS ball after starting at Minneapolis Patrick Henry. That brings the total to 55 Minnesota HS products who have played for D1 men's basketball teams this season, and 33 who have had double figure scoring games (Johnson scored 17 vs. Mercer.)
Here are those MN HS products since the 2001 class of Rick Rickert, Alan Anderson and Maurice Hargrow (which also included Luke Anderson, Erik Crawford, Zach Puchtel, Jamel Staten -- and Joe Mauer) who have played D1 basketball, plus current freshmen who received D1 scholarships but have not yet played. Please tell me if I am missing anyone.
2007 Cole Aldrich, Brad Brown, Eric Carlson, Noah Dahlman, Zach Filzen, James Granstra, Blake Hoffarber, Jon Leuer, Drew Lundberg, Trevor Mbakwe, Al Nolen, Xavier Reed, Alex Rubin, Justin Stommes, Chris Taylor, Blake Williams
Aldrich was clearly the #1 recruit, then maybe Mbakwe, then Leuer or Hoffarber. Before he left, Monson actually got the Gophers two keepers in Hoffarber and Nolen.
2006 Kwadzo Ahelegbe, Kit Avery, Freddy Coleman, Isaiah Dahlman, P.J. Hill, Matt Janning, Cory Johnson, Nevin Lubarski, Romaine Martin, Jefferson Mason, Cameron Rundles, Dan Vandervieren, Bryce Webster, Ryan Wittman
Dahlman and Johnson were definitely the highest rated recruits, than maybe one of the big men -- Vandervieren or Webster. Janning has turned into a terrific college player, but I don't think he was on any national charts coming out of high school. Janning, Wittman and Martin have been the 3 best college players so far.
2005 Jamal Abu-Shamala, Ray Brown, Travis Brown, Travis Busch, Mark Engen, Ross Forman, Kevin Gullikson, Andrew Henke, Urule Igbavboa, Darren Kent, Austin Pennick, Arden Skoglund, Brandon Smith, Sam Sussenguth, Josh Vaughan
Not a particularly strong year. I'm guessing Kent and the Browns were the highest rated recruits, or maybe Smith. I'd say Henke has been the best college player of the bunch, with Igbavboa or Abu-Shamala #2.
2004 Ryan Amoroso, Bret Brielmaier, Matt Cadwell, Eric Coleman, Andre Gilbert, Mitch Henke, Jadee Jones, Tom Lunde, Patrick O'Bryant, Matt Rosenberg, Ryan Saunders, Spencer Tollackson, Miles Webb, Bret Winkelman, Ben Woodside
The 3 best college players -- Woodside, Winkelman and Coleman -- were definitely not the top 3 recruits, who I assume were Tollackson, Amoroso and O'Bryant, or Longar coming out of prep school. (Why exactly did Monson give Miles Webb a scholarship?)
2003 Akbar Abdul-Ahad, Darren Clarke, Dan Coleman, James Davis, Dan Fitzgerald, Matt Hanson, Kevin Henderson, Kris Humphries, Longar Longar, John Manley, Lawrence McKenzie, Jordan Nuness, Isaac Rosefelt, Andre Smith, Kammron Taylor, Zach Thurow, Calvin Walls, Eric Webb, Jonathan Williams (plus Notre Dame football player John Carlson, a likely NFL draft choice in the spring)
A very good year for Minnesota high school basketball products. The top 3 recruits were probably Humphries, McKenzie and Taylor, although Dan Coleman has had a nice career for the Gophers. Or were Davis and Longar higher rated than McKenzie and Taylor?
2002 Jeff Halbert, Stephen King, Mike Kinsella, Zerek Knight, Terry Pettis, Bruce Price, Steve Sir (plus David Zellmann)
A weak year, perhaps the weakest for Minnesota recruits in the past 15 years. Bruce Price was probably the top recruit, and by far the best college player of the bunch, although Zellmann has an argument at D2. Halbert and Sir had decent careers, and Knight did start as a senior. And then there was Terry Pettis...
To: mnbuckets@yahoogroups.com
From: marc@...
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 06:52:08 -0600
Subject: Re: [mnbuckets] top recent performances by Minnesota HS products, and the season so far
I am shocked at how well these kids are doing, as a whole. I mean, who really thought that Nolen and Hoffarber would be contributing like they are so soon, or that they could be contributing this much and the Gophers being so successful. I admit that I did not.
And Deonte Roberts, and Zach Filzen!
I will say, however, that I thought that Matt Janning and Noah Dahlmann would be good. I have to say that with Noah Dahlmann outweighing brother Isaiah by probably 50 pounds, maybe more, and being a very skilled player, that Noah would not only do well but possibly be better than Isaiah. I just can’t believe that somebody “bigger” than Wofford didn’t take a shot at Noah. If he stays at Wofford for four years he will be an all-time great at that level. There’s no question at all in my mind that he could contribute for the Gophers if they could get him to come back home.
And watch out for Janning’s little sister Marissa who is now just an 8th grader at Watertown-Mayer and already a starter and their leading scorer. Hope the Gophers are aware of the genes she’s got going for her.
Thanks for the info, Alan. Great stuff.
Marc
On 12/31/07 5:52 AM, "Alan Holst" <alanholst@...> wrote:
Minnesota kids did pretty well as the men's teams returned to action following Christmas.
SUNDAY
Bruce Price (Minneapolis South) led Tennessee State with 17 points in their upset road win over Illinois.
Matt Janning (Watertown-Mayer) led Northeastern with 26 points vs. Syracuse.
Andrew Henke (Hopkins) scored 10 points (with 6 rebounds and 0 turnovers) for Air Force vs. Wake Forest.
Freshman Zach Filzen (Northfield) is starting for Northern Arizona, and scored 10 points vs. Northern Colorado, which got 14 points from Jefferson Mason (Robbinsdale Cooper.)
Freshman Blake Hoffarber (Hopkins) led the Gopher with 13 points in their loss to UNLV.
SATURDAY
Kevin Gullikson (Stillwater) and freshman Jon Leuer (Orono) combined for 10 points (only one other reserve played) for Wisconsin in their road upset of #9 Texas.
Dan Fitzgerald (St. Thomas Academy) scored 11 points for Marquette as they clobbered Savannah State.
Andre Gilbert (Park Center) led Kansas State with 6 assists as they clobbered Wagner.
Ryan Wittman (Eden Prairie) led Cornell with 23 points as they defeated Stony Brook.
Eric Coleman (Tartan) led Northern Iowa with 17 points and 14 rebounds as they defeated Bradley.
Romain Martin (Minneapolis North) led Northern Illinois with 20 points in their loss to Bowling Green.
Freshman Deonte Roberts (St. Bernard's) scored 17 points and led Wisconsin Milwaukee with 9 assists as they defeated Wyoming.
Longar Longar (Rochester John Marshall) led Oklahoma with 22 points as they upset #23 West Virginia on the road.
Freshman Cole Aldrich (Bloomington Jefferson) led #3 Kansas with 7 rebounds as they rolled over Yale.
Dan Coleman (Hopkins) led the Gophers with 24 points as they defeated Kennesaw State, aided by fellow Hopkins alum Blake Hoffarber (10 points) and Minneapolis Patrick Henry's Lawrence McKenzie (11 points.)
Bret Winkelman (Morris Area) led North Dakota State in points (17) rebounds (10) and assists (4) in their loss to Cal.
FRIDAY
Ben Woodside (Albert Lea) led North Dakota State with 31 points, while Bret Winkelman added 21 points and a team-high 14 rebounds in their victory over Bucknell.
Lawrence McKenzie led the Gophers with 16 points, aided by Dan Coleman (14 points) and Blake Hoffarber (13 points) as the Gophers crushed Nicholls State.
SO FAR THIS SEASON
Dan Coleman and Eric Coleman each lead their teams in both scoring and rebounding.
Ben Woodside leads NDSU in scoring (23 ppg) and assists, while Bret Winkelman leads NDSU in rebounding and is scoring 22 ppg.
Bruce Price (20 ppg) leads Tennessee State in scoring and rebounding.
Romain Martin leads Eastern Illinois in scoring.
Freshman Noah Dahlman (Braham) leads Wofford in rebounding, while freshmen Al Nolen (Gophers via Minneapolis Patrick Henry) and Deonte Roberts (Wisconsin Milwaukee) lead their teams in assists. Cameron Rundles (DeLaSalle) leads Montana in assists.
Andrew Henke leads Air Force in rebounding, and is the team's second-leading scorer.
Tartan's Urule Igbavboa (Valparaiso) and Maranatha's Matt Hanson (Cal Poly) lead their teams in rebounding.
14 Minnesota high school products are averaging double figures in scoring for D1 teams -- Woodside, Winkelman, Price, Janning, Martin, Wittman, Longar, Henke, Igbavboa, Eric Coleman, Dan Coleman, McKenzie, Hoffarber and Spencer Tollackson. (4 Gophers!)
Woodside, Winkelman and Price are averaging 20+ppg.
4 Minnesota high school products have had 30+ point games for D1 teams -- Woodside, Winkelman, Price and Janning.
14 Minnesota high school products have had 20+ point games for D1 teams, including Andre Gilbert (Kansas State) and yet another Hopkins grad, Mitch Henke (Santa Clara.)
32 Minnesota high school products had had double figure scoring games for D1 teams, and 8 more have been with a basket of double figure scoring games for D1 teams.
Bret Brielmaier (Mankato Loyola) has started several games for top-20 Arizona.
To the best of my knowledge, 52 Minnesota high school products have played for D1 men's basketball teams so far this season.
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