I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince a

couple of managers what they face.  I also asked the question on the LL

website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't answered

a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely answer is waning.



This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that was

stopped due to weather last week.  In the meantime, both teams played complete

games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require rest.  They

want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve as the game-rest

requirement for those pitchers.



A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that resumed

games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are played. 

That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it goes one

inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest basically

turns this into two separate games.



So, does anybody have anything official to offer?  My DA feels that the resumed

game should count, and I disagree.  I feel like I should just tell both managers

that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it the old-fashioned

way (phone calls to LL HQ).



Manny Aponte

VA D9 UIC

I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@...> wrote:

>

> I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince a

couple of managers what they face.  I also asked the question on the LL

website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't answered

a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely answer is waning.

>

> This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that was

stopped due to weather last week.  In the meantime, both teams played complete

games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require rest.  They

want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve as the game-rest

requirement for those pitchers.

>

> A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that resumed

games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are played. 

That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it goes one

inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest basically

turns this into two separate games.

>

> So, does anybody have anything official to offer?  My DA feels that the

resumed game should count, and I disagree.  I feel like I should just tell both

managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it the

old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

>

> Manny Aponte

> VA D9 UIC

>

Manny,







I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule.  If

you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem to be

the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on the

side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

them by making them sit without reasonable cause.







Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and the

wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't believe

there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the system.







Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a big

deal.







All just my opinion, of course.







   _____



From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Of Jerry McKissack

Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

















I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,

"Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@...> wrote:

>

> I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince

a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

answer is waning.

>

> This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that

was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require

rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve

as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

>

> A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are

played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it

goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest

basically turns this into two separate games.

>

> So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell

both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it

the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

>

> Manny Aponte

> VA D9 UIC

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle it is

to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest by

ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.



clay



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@...> wrote:

>

> Manny,

>

>

>

> I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule.  If

> you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem to be

> the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on the

> side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

>

>

>

> Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and the

> wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't believe

> there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the system.

>

>

>

> Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a big

> deal.

>

>

>

> All just my opinion, of course.

>

>

>

>   _____

>

> From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

> Of Jerry McKissack

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

>

> Jerry

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,

> "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> >

> > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince

> a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> answer is waning.

> >

> > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that

> was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require

> rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve

> as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> >

> > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are

> played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it

> goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest

> basically turns this into two separate games.

> >

> > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell

> both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it

> the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> >

> > Manny Aponte

> > VA D9 UIC

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could still

send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Clay Berry" <parkaleo@...> wrote:

>

> If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle it is

to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest by

ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.

>

> clay

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@> wrote:

> >

> > Manny,

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule.  If

> > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem to be

> > the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on the

> > side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> >

> >

> >

> > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and the

> > wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't believe

> > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the system.

> >

> >

> >

> > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a big

> > deal.

> >

> >

> >

> > All just my opinion, of course.

> >

> >

> >

> >   _____

> >

> > From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

> > Of Jerry McKissack

> > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> >

> > Jerry

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,

> > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince

> > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > answer is waning.

> > >

> > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that

> > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require

> > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve

> > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > >

> > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are

> > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it

> > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest

> > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > >

> > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell

> > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it

> > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > >

> > > Manny Aponte

> > > VA D9 UIC

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@...> wrote:

>

> Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could still

send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.

>

> Jerry



Jerry



Check out Green Book page T-10, A (1-5)



Manager lodges a protest. Play ceases.

On field umpires conference and give consensus ruling.

Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects

tournament director gets involved.  TD renders ruling.

Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects,

call placed to regional HQ. Region renders ruling. Both managers accept or

reject. 1 manager rejects, call placed to WP.

WP rules. Final & binding. Play resumes.



I had a regular season game suspended then resumed and prior to resumption, I

requested same info from WR.  WR said that all pitching records of the suspended

portion of the game carried over to the resumed portion. Any pitcher burned in

the suspended portion may not pitch in the resumed portion of the game,

regardless if any game(s) were played in between the suspended portion and the

resumed portion, in which rest requirements could be met.  Pitcher of record at

the time of the suspension may pitch in the resumed portion provided he has

eligibility remaining for the day and week when the game is resumed.   WR also

indicated that all substitution records also carry over for purposes of

mandatory play.



I think their line would be the same for tournament play.



Don

WA D-6



>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Clay Berry" <parkaleo@> wrote:

> >

> > If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle it

is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest by

ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.

> >

> > clay

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Manny,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule.  If

> > > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > > advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem to

be

> > > the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on the

> > > side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> > > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and the

> > > wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't believe

> > > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the system.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a big

> > > deal.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > All just my opinion, of course.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >   _____

> > >

> > > From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> > > Of Jerry McKissack

> > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > > To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> > > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> > >

> > > Jerry

> > >

> > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,

> > > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

convince

> > > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> > > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> > > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > > answer is waning.

> > > >

> > > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game

that

> > > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> > > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require

> > > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve

> > > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > > >

> > > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are

> > > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if

it

> > > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

rest

> > > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > > >

> > > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> > > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell

> > > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with

it

> > > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > > >

> > > > Manny Aponte

> > > > VA D9 UIC

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>

Understand - it has to follow the chain, but no Manager I know of ever accepts

Regions ruling - why stop there.



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hester" <mapnodh@...> wrote:

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@> wrote:

> >

> > Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could

still send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.

> >

> > Jerry

>

> Jerry

>

> Check out Green Book page T-10, A (1-5)

>

> Manager lodges a protest. Play ceases.

> On field umpires conference and give consensus ruling.

> Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects

tournament director gets involved.  TD renders ruling.

> Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects,

call placed to regional HQ. Region renders ruling. Both managers accept or

reject. 1 manager rejects, call placed to WP.

> WP rules. Final & binding. Play resumes.

>

> I had a regular season game suspended then resumed and prior to resumption, I

requested same info from WR.  WR said that all pitching records of the suspended

portion of the game carried over to the resumed portion. Any pitcher burned in

the suspended portion may not pitch in the resumed portion of the game,

regardless if any game(s) were played in between the suspended portion and the

resumed portion, in which rest requirements could be met.  Pitcher of record at

the time of the suspension may pitch in the resumed portion provided he has

eligibility remaining for the day and week when the game is resumed.   WR also

indicated that all substitution records also carry over for purposes of

mandatory play.

>

> I think their line would be the same for tournament play.

>

> Don

> WA D-6

>

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Clay Berry" <parkaleo@> wrote:

> > >

> > > If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle

it is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest

by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.

> > >

> > > clay

> > >

> > > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Manny,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule. 

If

> > > > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > > > advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem to

be

> > > > the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on

the

> > > > side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> > > > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and the

> > > > wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't

believe

> > > > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the

system.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a

big

> > > > deal.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > All just my opinion, of course.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >   _____

> > > >

> > > > From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> > > > Of Jerry McKissack

> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > > > To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> > > > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> > > >

> > > > Jerry

> > > >

> > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,

> > > > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

convince

> > > > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> > > > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> > > > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > > > answer is waning.

> > > > >

> > > > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game

that

> > > > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> > > > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now

require

> > > > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to

serve

> > > > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > > > >

> > > > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > > > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings

are

> > > > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game

if it

> > > > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

rest

> > > > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> > > > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just

tell

> > > > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal

with it

> > > > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > > > >

> > > > > Manny Aponte

> > > > > VA D9 UIC

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

Then they should be releived and repaced with someone that respects authoirity

and he/she should never be allowed to manage a team.....simple as that

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®



-----Original Message-----

From: "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@...>



Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:06:04

To: <llumpires@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?





Understand - it has to follow the chain, but no Manager I know of ever accepts

Regions ruling - why stop there.



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hester" <mapnodh@...> wrote:

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@> wrote:

> >

> > Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could

still send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.

> >

> > Jerry

>

> Jerry

>

> Check out Green Book page T-10, A (1-5)

>

> Manager lodges a protest. Play ceases.

> On field umpires conference and give consensus ruling.

> Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects

tournament director gets involved.  TD renders ruling.

> Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects,

call placed to regional HQ. Region renders ruling. Both managers accept or

reject. 1 manager rejects, call placed to WP.

> WP rules. Final & binding. Play resumes.

>

> I had a regular season game suspended then resumed and prior to resumption, I

requested same info from WR.  WR said that all pitching records of the suspended

portion of the game carried over to the resumed portion. Any pitcher burned in

the suspended portion may not pitch in the resumed portion of the game,

regardless if any game(s) were played in between the suspended portion and the

resumed portion, in which rest requirements could be met.  Pitcher of record at

the time of the suspension may pitch in the resumed portion provided he has

eligibility remaining for the day and week when the game is resumed.   WR also

indicated that all substitution records also carry over for purposes of

mandatory play.

>

> I think their line would be the same for tournament play.

>

> Don

> WA D-6

>

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Clay Berry" <parkaleo@> wrote:

> > >

> > > If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle

it is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest

by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.

> > >

> > > clay

> > >

> > > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Manny,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule. 

If

> > > > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > > > advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem to

be

> > > > the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on

the

> > > > side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> > > > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and the

> > > > wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't

believe

> > > > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the

system.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a

big

> > > > deal.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > All just my opinion, of course.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >_____

> > > >

> > > > From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> > > > Of Jerry McKissack

> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > > > To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> > > > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> > > >

> > > > Jerry

> > > >

> > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,

> > > > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

convince

> > > > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> > > > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> > > > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > > > answer is waning.

> > > > >

> > > > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game

that

> > > > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> > > > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now

require

> > > > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to

serve

> > > > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > > > >

> > > > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > > > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings

are

> > > > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game

if it

> > > > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

rest

> > > > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> > > > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just

tell

> > > > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal

with it

> > > > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > > > >

> > > > > Manny Aponte

> > > > > VA D9 UIC

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's not disrespecting authority, it's his privilege within the rules.



Region cannot create interpretations, thus why accept "their" interpretation?

Granted, they may have had the exact same protest from a different tournament,

and got a  ruling from WP; that's great, now they're simply passing on a prior

WP interpretation.



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, rodman0563@... wrote:

>

> Then they should be releived and repaced with someone that respects authoirity

and he/she should never be allowed to manage a team.....simple as that

> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@...>

>

> Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:06:04

> To: <llumpires@yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?

>

>

> Understand - it has to follow the chain, but no Manager I know of ever accepts

Regions ruling - why stop there.

>

> Jerry

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hester" <mapnodh@> wrote:

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could

still send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.

> > >

> > > Jerry

> >

> > Jerry

> >

> > Check out Green Book page T-10, A (1-5)

> >

> > Manager lodges a protest. Play ceases.

> > On field umpires conference and give consensus ruling.

> > Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects

tournament director gets involved.  TD renders ruling.

> > Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects,

call placed to regional HQ. Region renders ruling. Both managers accept or

reject. 1 manager rejects, call placed to WP.

> > WP rules. Final & binding. Play resumes.

> >

> > I had a regular season game suspended then resumed and prior to resumption,

I requested same info from WR.  WR said that all pitching records of the

suspended portion of the game carried over to the resumed portion. Any pitcher

burned in the suspended portion may not pitch in the resumed portion of the

game, regardless if any game(s) were played in between the suspended portion and

the resumed portion, in which rest requirements could be met.  Pitcher of record

at the time of the suspension may pitch in the resumed portion provided he has

eligibility remaining for the day and week when the game is resumed.   WR also

indicated that all substitution records also carry over for purposes of

mandatory play.

> >

> > I think their line would be the same for tournament play.

> >

> > Don

> > WA D-6

> >

> > >

> > > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Clay Berry" <parkaleo@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle

it is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest

by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.

> > > >

> > > > clay

> > > >

> > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Manny,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule.

If

> > > > > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > > > > advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem

to be

> > > > > the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on

the

> > > > > side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not

punish

> > > > > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and

the

> > > > > wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't

believe

> > > > > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the

system.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a

big

> > > > > deal.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > All just my opinion, of course.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >_____

> > > > >

> > > > > From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> > > > > Of Jerry McKissack

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > > > > To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> > > > > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> > > > >

> > > > > Jerry

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>

ps.com,

> > > > > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

convince

> > > > > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the

LL

> > > > > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they

haven't

> > > > > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > > > > answer is waning.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play

game that

> > > > > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams

played

> > > > > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now

require

> > > > > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to

serve

> > > > > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > > > > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings

are

> > > > > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game

if it

> > > > > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

rest

> > > > > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that

the

> > > > > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just

tell

> > > > > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal

with it

> > > > > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Manny Aponte

> > > > > > VA D9 UIC

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

Wow.  How would you treat a manager who protests your decision in a game?  Do

you think that's also disrespecting your authority?



Manny Aponte

VA D9 UIC



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, rodman0563@... wrote:

>

> Then they should be releived and repaced with someone that respects authoirity

and he/she should never be allowed to manage a team.....simple as that

> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@...>

>

> Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:06:04

> To: <llumpires@yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?

>

>

> Understand - it has to follow the chain, but no Manager I know of ever accepts

Regions ruling - why stop there.

>

> Jerry

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hester" <mapnodh@> wrote:

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could

still send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.

> > >

> > > Jerry

> >

> > Jerry

> >

> > Check out Green Book page T-10, A (1-5)

> >

> > Manager lodges a protest. Play ceases.

> > On field umpires conference and give consensus ruling.

> > Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects

tournament director gets involved.  TD renders ruling.

> > Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects,

call placed to regional HQ. Region renders ruling. Both managers accept or

reject. 1 manager rejects, call placed to WP.

> > WP rules. Final & binding. Play resumes.

> >

> > I had a regular season game suspended then resumed and prior to resumption,

I requested same info from WR.  WR said that all pitching records of the

suspended portion of the game carried over to the resumed portion. Any pitcher

burned in the suspended portion may not pitch in the resumed portion of the

game, regardless if any game(s) were played in between the suspended portion and

the resumed portion, in which rest requirements could be met.  Pitcher of record

at the time of the suspension may pitch in the resumed portion provided he has

eligibility remaining for the day and week when the game is resumed.   WR also

indicated that all substitution records also carry over for purposes of

mandatory play.

> >

> > I think their line would be the same for tournament play.

> >

> > Don

> > WA D-6

> >

> > >

> > > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Clay Berry" <parkaleo@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle

it is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest

by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.

> > > >

> > > > clay

> > > >

> > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Manny,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule.

If

> > > > > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > > > > advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem

to be

> > > > > the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on

the

> > > > > side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not

punish

> > > > > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and

the

> > > > > wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't

believe

> > > > > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the

system.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a

big

> > > > > deal.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > All just my opinion, of course.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >_____

> > > > >

> > > > > From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> > > > > Of Jerry McKissack

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > > > > To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> > > > > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> > > > >

> > > > > Jerry

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>

ps.com,

> > > > > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

convince

> > > > > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the

LL

> > > > > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they

haven't

> > > > > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > > > > answer is waning.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play

game that

> > > > > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams

played

> > > > > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now

require

> > > > > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to

serve

> > > > > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > > > > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings

are

> > > > > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game

if it

> > > > > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

rest

> > > > > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that

the

> > > > > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just

tell

> > > > > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal

with it

> > > > > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Manny Aponte

> > > > > > VA D9 UIC

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

My bad, I thought it went up to WP for a ruling.

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®



-----Original Message-----

From: "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@...>



Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:24:09

To: <llumpires@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?





Wow.  How would you treat a manager who protests your decision in a game?  Do

you think that's also disrespecting your authority?



Manny Aponte

VA D9 UIC



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, rodman0563@... wrote:

>

> Then they should be releived and repaced with someone that respects authoirity

and he/she should never be allowed to manage a team.....simple as that

> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@...>

>

> Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:06:04

> To: <llumpires@yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?

>

>

> Understand - it has to follow the chain, but no Manager I know of ever accepts

Regions ruling - why stop there.

>

> Jerry

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hester" <mapnodh@> wrote:

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could

still send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.

> > >

> > > Jerry

> >

> > Jerry

> >

> > Check out Green Book page T-10, A (1-5)

> >

> > Manager lodges a protest. Play ceases.

> > On field umpires conference and give consensus ruling.

> > Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects

tournament director gets involved.  TD renders ruling.

> > Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects,

call placed to regional HQ. Region renders ruling. Both managers accept or

reject. 1 manager rejects, call placed to WP.

> > WP rules. Final & binding. Play resumes.

> >

> > I had a regular season game suspended then resumed and prior to resumption,

I requested same info from WR.  WR said that all pitching records of the

suspended portion of the game carried over to the resumed portion. Any pitcher

burned in the suspended portion may not pitch in the resumed portion of the

game, regardless if any game(s) were played in between the suspended portion and

the resumed portion, in which rest requirements could be met.  Pitcher of record

at the time of the suspension may pitch in the resumed portion provided he has

eligibility remaining for the day and week when the game is resumed.   WR also

indicated that all substitution records also carry over for purposes of

mandatory play.

> >

> > I think their line would be the same for tournament play.

> >

> > Don

> > WA D-6

> >

> > >

> > > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Clay Berry" <parkaleo@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle

it is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest

by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.

> > > >

> > > > clay

> > > >

> > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Manny,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule.

If

> > > > > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > > > > advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem

to be

> > > > > the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on

the

> > > > > side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not

punish

> > > > > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and

the

> > > > > wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't

believe

> > > > > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the

system.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a

big

> > > > > deal.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > All just my opinion, of course.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >_____

> > > > >

> > > > > From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> > > > > Of Jerry McKissack

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > > > > To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> > > > > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> > > > >

> > > > > Jerry

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>

ps.com,

> > > > > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

convince

> > > > > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the

LL

> > > > > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they

haven't

> > > > > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > > > > answer is waning.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play

game that

> > > > > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams

played

> > > > > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now

require

> > > > > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to

serve

> > > > > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > > > > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings

are

> > > > > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game

if it

> > > > > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

rest

> > > > > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that

the

> > > > > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just

tell

> > > > > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal

with it

> > > > > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Manny Aponte

> > > > > > VA D9 UIC

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The situation is BOTH teams want it counted and will protest if it's NOT.







   _____



From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Of Clay Berry

Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 2:30 PM

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

















If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle it

is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest

by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not

guess.



clay



--- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, "Ed

Wiggins" <ewiggins11@...> wrote:

>

> Manny,

>

>

>

> I agree with Jerry. You understand the spirit and intent of the rule. If

> you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> advantage by loop hole that is one thing. However that does not seem to be

> the case. In the absence of official guidance we should come down on the

> side of common sense. The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

>

>

>

> Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them. Go with your DA and the

> wishes of the participants. I cannot see a down side if you don't believe

> there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the system.

>

>

>

> Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a big

> deal.

>

>

>

> All just my opinion, of course.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

[mailto:llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com] On

Behalf

> Of Jerry McKissack

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> To: llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

> Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

>

> Jerry

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,

> "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> >

> > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

convince

> a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> answer is waning.

> >

> > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game

that

> was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require

> rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve

> as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> >

> > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are

> played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if

it

> goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

rest

> basically turns this into two separate games.

> >

> > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell

> both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with

it

> the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> >

> > Manny Aponte

> > VA D9 UIC

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Both of the teams playing the resumed game want it counted, but their next

opponents probably do not :)



On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Ed Wiggins <ewiggins11@...> wrote:



>

>

> The situation is BOTH teams want it counted and will protest if it's NOT.

>

>

> _____

>

> From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com <llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:

> llumpires@yahoogroups.com <llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf

> Of Clay Berry

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 2:30 PM

> To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com <llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

>

> If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle it

> is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a

> protest

> by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not

> guess.

>

> clay

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogrou

<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com<llumpires%2540yahoogroups.com>>

> ps.com, "Ed

> Wiggins" <ewiggins11@...> wrote:

> >

> > Manny,

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree with Jerry. You understand the spirit and intent of the rule. If

> > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > advantage by loop hole that is one thing. However that does not seem to

> be

> > the case. In the absence of official guidance we should come down on the

> > side of common sense. The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> >

> >

> >

> > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them. Go with your DA and the

> > wishes of the participants. I cannot see a down side if you don't believe

> > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the system.

> >

> >

> >

> > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a big

> > deal.

> >

> >

> >

> > All just my opinion, of course.

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: llumpires@yahoogrou

<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com<llumpires%2540yahoogroups.com>>

> ps.com

> [mailto:llumpires@yahoogrou

<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com<llumpires%2540yahoogroups.com>>

> ps.com] On

> Behalf

> > Of Jerry McKissack

> > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > To: llumpires@yahoogrou

<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com<llumpires%2540yahoogroups.com>>

> ps.com

>

> > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> >

> > Jerry

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou

<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com<llumpires%2540yahoogroups.com>>

> ps.com,

> > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

> convince

> > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > answer is waning.

> > >

> > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game

> that

> > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require

> > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to

> serve

> > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > >

> > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings

> are

> > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if

> it

> > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

> rest

> > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > >

> > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell

> > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with

> it

> > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > >

> > > Manny Aponte

> > > VA D9 UIC

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is irrelevant.







   _____



From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Of Mark Perkins

Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 5:20 PM

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

















Both of the teams playing the resumed game want it counted, but their next

opponents probably do not :)



On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Ed Wiggins <ewiggins11@comcast.

<mailto:ewiggins11%40comcast.net> net> wrote:



>

>

> The situation is BOTH teams want it counted and will protest if it's NOT.

>

>

> _____

>

> From: llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

<llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:

> llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

<llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf

> Of Clay Berry

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 2:30 PM

> To: llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

<llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

>

> If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle

it

> is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a

> protest

> by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not

> guess.

>

> clay

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogrou

<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com<llumpires%2540yahoogroups.com>>

> ps.com, "Ed

> Wiggins" <ewiggins11@...> wrote:

> >

> > Manny,

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree with Jerry. You understand the spirit and intent of the rule. If

> > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > advantage by loop hole that is one thing. However that does not seem to

> be

> > the case. In the absence of official guidance we should come down on the

> > side of common sense. The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> >

> >

> >

> > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them. Go with your DA and the

> > wishes of the participants. I cannot see a down side if you don't

believe

> > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the

system.

> >

> >

> >

> > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a

big

> > deal.

> >

> >

> >

> > All just my opinion, of course.

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: llumpires@yahoogrou

<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com<llumpires%2540yahoogroups.com>>

> ps.com

> [mailto:llumpires@yahoogrou

<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com<llumpires%2540yahoogroups.com>>

> ps.com] On

> Behalf

> > Of Jerry McKissack

> > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > To: llumpires@yahoogrou

<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com<llumpires%2540yahoogroups.com>>

> ps.com

>

> > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> >

> > Jerry

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou

<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com<llumpires%2540yahoogroups.com>>

> ps.com,

> > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

> convince

> > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > answer is waning.

> > >

> > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game

> that

> > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now

require

> > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to

> serve

> > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > >

> > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings

> are

> > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game

if

> it

> > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

> rest

> > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > >

> > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just

tell

> > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal

with

> it

> > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > >

> > > Manny Aponte

> > > VA D9 UIC

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Manny!



I asked a similar question of Corey Wright and he said that the suspended game

counts.  I have placed our conversation below.  Hope it helps!



Marty:



Yes, it would count as a game of rest.  But one point of clarification, just

because the suspended game counts as a game of rest for this specific pitcher,

please remember that he is still in eligible to pitch in the resumption (if that

is the game next before a new game).  Why?  Because he is still ineligible to

pitch in the resumption because it's the SAME game that he was ineligible to

pitch in the first place.



Thanks.



Corey M. Wright

Assistant East Region Director

Little League Baseball and Softball

East Region Headquarters

PO Box 2926

Bristol, CT  06011-2926

Email: cwright@...<mailto:cwright@...>

Website: www.LittleLeague.org/East<http://www.LittleLeague.org/East>

-----Original Message-----

From: Marty Ort [mailto:mort@...]

Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:12 PM

To: Corey Wright

Subject: Pitching Rule Question



Hello my friend!  I hope that all is well with you as the tournaments are

progressing.



I have a quick question, and Mike and I are pretty sure we know the right

answer, but before we tell the coaches anything I want to be sure we have the

right answer.



A pitcher threw 85 pitches on Sunday in a 9 - 10 Baseball tournament game.  His

team's game on Tuesday was suspended in the fourth inning.  Does the suspended

game count for the rest requirement allowing the pitcher from Sunday to throw

again on Thursday?







________________________________

From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

Manny Aponte

Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:01 AM

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [llumpires] Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?











I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince a

couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL website's

"Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't answered a

question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely answer is waning.



This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that was

stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played complete

games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require rest. They want

to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve as the game-rest

requirement for those pitchers.



A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that resumed

games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are played.

That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it goes one

inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest basically

turns this into two separate games.



So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the resumed

game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell both managers

that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it the old-fashioned

way (phone calls to LL HQ).



Manny Aponte

VA D9 UIC







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Now that's an interesting ruling and I (personally) have a problem with it -

because the rule allows for the pitcher of record to return "if he's eligible"

based on whatever has happened in the intervening  games before the suspended

game is resumed. Therefore, if that's the case, seems to me, any pitcher that

was ineligible at the time the original game was played, but is now eligible

(having met his rest requirements), should be allowed to pitch. Otherwise, the

teams could be royally screwed potentially having no eligible pitchers.  Again,

keeping the "spirit and intent" of the rule in mind. (We let players who were

absent at the original game, play in the suspended game.)



I would like to hear from the Ivory Tower on this one.



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, Marty Ort <MOrt@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Manny!

>

> I asked a similar question of Corey Wright and he said that the suspended game

counts.  I have placed our conversation below.  Hope it helps!

>

> Marty:

>

> Yes, it would count as a game of rest.  But one point of clarification, just

because the suspended game counts as a game of rest for this specific pitcher,

please remember that he is still in eligible to pitch in the resumption (if that

is the game next before a new game).  Why?  Because he is still ineligible to

pitch in the resumption because it's the SAME game that he was ineligible to

pitch in the first place.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Corey M. Wright

> Assistant East Region Director

> Little League Baseball and Softball

> East Region Headquarters

> PO Box 2926

> Bristol, CT  06011-2926

> Email: cwright@...<mailto:cwright@...>

> Website: www.LittleLeague.org/East<http://www.LittleLeague.org/East>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Marty Ort [mailto:mort@...]

> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:12 PM

> To: Corey Wright

> Subject: Pitching Rule Question

>

> Hello my friend!  I hope that all is well with you as the tournaments are

progressing.

>

> I have a quick question, and Mike and I are pretty sure we know the right

answer, but before we tell the coaches anything I want to be sure we have the

right answer.

>

> A pitcher threw 85 pitches on Sunday in a 9 - 10 Baseball tournament game. 

His team's game on Tuesday was suspended in the fourth inning.  Does the

suspended game count for the rest requirement allowing the pitcher from Sunday

to throw again on Thursday?

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Of Manny Aponte

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:01 AM

> To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [llumpires] Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

>

>

>

>

>

> I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince a

couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL website's

"Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't answered a

question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely answer is waning.

>

> This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that was

stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played complete

games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require rest. They want

to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve as the game-rest

requirement for those pitchers.

>

> A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that resumed

games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are played.

That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it goes one

inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest basically

turns this into two separate games.

>

> So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the resumed

game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell both managers

that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it the old-fashioned

way (phone calls to LL HQ).

>

> Manny Aponte

> VA D9 UIC

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

I agree, Jerry.  You can manipulate this rule more ways than Sunday to determine

that every pitcher is eligible, or every pitcher is ineligible.  LL HQ needs to

speak up once and for all on how they want this handled.  Better yet, they

should just get rid of the game rest requirement altogether.



Manny Aponte

VA D9 UIC



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@...> wrote:

>

> Now that's an interesting ruling and I (personally) have a problem with it -

because the rule allows for the pitcher of record to return "if he's eligible"

based on whatever has happened in the intervening  games before the suspended

game is resumed. Therefore, if that's the case, seems to me, any pitcher that

was ineligible at the time the original game was played, but is now eligible

(having met his rest requirements), should be allowed to pitch. Otherwise, the

teams could be royally screwed potentially having no eligible pitchers.  Again,

keeping the "spirit and intent" of the rule in mind. (We let players who were

absent at the original game, play in the suspended game.)

>

> I would like to hear from the Ivory Tower on this one.

>

> Jerry

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, Marty Ort <MOrt@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Manny!

> >

> > I asked a similar question of Corey Wright and he said that the suspended

game counts.  I have placed our conversation below.  Hope it helps!

> >

> > Marty:

> >

> > Yes, it would count as a game of rest.  But one point of clarification, just

because the suspended game counts as a game of rest for this specific pitcher,

please remember that he is still in eligible to pitch in the resumption (if that

is the game next before a new game).  Why?  Because he is still ineligible to

pitch in the resumption because it's the SAME game that he was ineligible to

pitch in the first place.

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

> > Corey M. Wright

> > Assistant East Region Director

> > Little League Baseball and Softball

> > East Region Headquarters

> > PO Box 2926

> > Bristol, CT  06011-2926

> > Email: cwright@<mailto:cwright@>

> > Website: www.LittleLeague.org/East<http://www.LittleLeague.org/East>

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Marty Ort [mailto:mort@]

> > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:12 PM

> > To: Corey Wright

> > Subject: Pitching Rule Question

> >

> > Hello my friend!  I hope that all is well with you as the tournaments are

progressing.

> >

> > I have a quick question, and Mike and I are pretty sure we know the right

answer, but before we tell the coaches anything I want to be sure we have the

right answer.

> >

> > A pitcher threw 85 pitches on Sunday in a 9 - 10 Baseball tournament game. 

His team's game on Tuesday was suspended in the fourth inning.  Does the

suspended game count for the rest requirement allowing the pitcher from Sunday

to throw again on Thursday?

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Of Manny Aponte

> > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:01 AM

> > To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: [llumpires] Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince a

couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL website's

"Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't answered a

question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely answer is waning.

> >

> > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that

was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require rest.

They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve as the

game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> >

> > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that resumed

games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are played.

That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it goes one

inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest basically

turns this into two separate games.

> >

> > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell both

managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it the

old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> >

> > Manny Aponte

> > VA D9 UIC

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

Marty,



Thank you for asking, but your question was not the same as the situation I'm

facing.  Here's the scenario as it played out.



Two Juniors teams, Central and South, played each other on 7/1.  The game was

called after three innings due to rain.  They will resume the game on 7/7.



In the meantime, Central played a game on 7/3.  The Central manager used three

pitchers, two of which exceeded 20 pitches.  South plays tomorrow (7/6).  Let's

assume they use two pitchers who also exceed 20 pitches.



When they finish their game against each other on 7/7, will those four pitchers

become eligible to pitch in their next games on 7/9?  In other words, does the

resumption of that suspended game count as a game of rest for those four

pitchers?



Manny Aponte

VA D9 UIC



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, Marty Ort <MOrt@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Manny!

>

> I asked a similar question of Corey Wright and he said that the suspended game

counts.  I have placed our conversation below.  Hope it helps!

>

> Marty:

>

> Yes, it would count as a game of rest.  But one point of clarification, just

because the suspended game counts as a game of rest for this specific pitcher,

please remember that he is still in eligible to pitch in the resumption (if that

is the game next before a new game).  Why?  Because he is still ineligible to

pitch in the resumption because it's the SAME game that he was ineligible to

pitch in the first place.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Corey M. Wright

> Assistant East Region Director

> Little League Baseball and Softball

> East Region Headquarters

> PO Box 2926

> Bristol, CT  06011-2926

> Email: cwright@...<mailto:cwright@...>

> Website: www.LittleLeague.org/East<http://www.LittleLeague.org/East>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Marty Ort [mailto:mort@...]

> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:12 PM

> To: Corey Wright

> Subject: Pitching Rule Question

>

> Hello my friend!  I hope that all is well with you as the tournaments are

progressing.

>

> I have a quick question, and Mike and I are pretty sure we know the right

answer, but before we tell the coaches anything I want to be sure we have the

right answer.

>

> A pitcher threw 85 pitches on Sunday in a 9 - 10 Baseball tournament game. 

His team's game on Tuesday was suspended in the fourth inning.  Does the

suspended game count for the rest requirement allowing the pitcher from Sunday

to throw again on Thursday?

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Of Manny Aponte

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:01 AM

> To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [llumpires] Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

>

>

>

>

>

> I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince a

couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL website's

"Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't answered a

question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely answer is waning.

>

> This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that was

stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played complete

games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require rest. They want

to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve as the game-rest

requirement for those pitchers.

>

> A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that resumed

games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are played.

That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it goes one

inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest basically

turns this into two separate games.

>

> So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the resumed

game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell both managers

that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it the old-fashioned

way (phone calls to LL HQ).

>

> Manny Aponte

> VA D9 UIC

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

I should have read your email more clearly.



However based on what they told me I would assume that the continuation counts,

just as the suspended game counts.



Marty

PA 17



________________________________

From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

Manny Aponte

Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 10:52 PM

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?











Marty,



Thank you for asking, but your question was not the same as the situation I'm

facing. Here's the scenario as it played out.



Two Juniors teams, Central and South, played each other on 7/1. The game was

called after three innings due to rain. They will resume the game on 7/7.



In the meantime, Central played a game on 7/3. The Central manager used three

pitchers, two of which exceeded 20 pitches. South plays tomorrow (7/6). Let's

assume they use two pitchers who also exceed 20 pitches.



When they finish their game against each other on 7/7, will those four pitchers

become eligible to pitch in their next games on 7/9? In other words, does the

resumption of that suspended game count as a game of rest for those four

pitchers?



Manny Aponte

VA D9 UIC



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>, Marty Ort

<MOrt@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Manny!

>

> I asked a similar question of Corey Wright and he said that the suspended game

counts. I have placed our conversation below. Hope it helps!

>

> Marty:

>

> Yes, it would count as a game of rest. But one point of clarification, just

because the suspended game counts as a game of rest for this specific pitcher,

please remember that he is still in eligible to pitch in the resumption (if that

is the game next before a new game). Why? Because he is still ineligible to

pitch in the resumption because it's the SAME game that he was ineligible to

pitch in the first place.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Corey M. Wright

> Assistant East Region Director

> Little League Baseball and Softball

> East Region Headquarters

> PO Box 2926

> Bristol, CT 06011-2926

> Email: cwright@...<mailto:cwright@...>

> Website: www.LittleLeague.org/East<http://www.LittleLeague.org/East>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Marty Ort [mailto:mort@...]

> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:12 PM

> To: Corey Wright

> Subject: Pitching Rule Question

>

> Hello my friend! I hope that all is well with you as the tournaments are

progressing.

>

> I have a quick question, and Mike and I are pretty sure we know the right

answer, but before we tell the coaches anything I want to be sure we have the

right answer.

>

> A pitcher threw 85 pitches on Sunday in a 9 - 10 Baseball tournament game. His

team's game on Tuesday was suspended in the fourth inning. Does the suspended

game count for the rest requirement allowing the pitcher from Sunday to throw

again on Thursday?

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf

Of Manny Aponte

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:01 AM

> To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com<mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [llumpires] Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

>

>

>

>

>

> I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince a

couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL website's

"Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't answered a

question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely answer is waning.

>

> This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that was

stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played complete

games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require rest. They want

to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve as the game-rest

requirement for those pitchers.

>

> A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that resumed

games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are played.

That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it goes one

inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest basically

turns this into two separate games.

>

> So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the resumed

game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just tell both managers

that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it the old-fashioned

way (phone calls to LL HQ).

>

> Manny Aponte

> VA D9 UIC

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is that you Cartman?



Respect my A-Thor-A=TAY!







-----Original Message-----

From: rodman0563@...

Sent: July 06, 2009 1:14 PM

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?



Then they should be releived and repaced with someone that respects authoirity

and he/she should never be allowed to manage a team.....simple as that

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®



-----Original Message-----

From: "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@...>



Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:06:04

To: <llumpires@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?





Understand - it has to follow the chain, but no Manager I know of ever accepts

Regions ruling - why stop there.



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hester" <mapnodh@...> wrote:

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@> wrote:

> >

> > Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could

still send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.

> >





[The entire original message is not included]

Not so simple at all, and it really doesn't have anything to do with respect

for authority.  WP has the final authority on any protests.  If you aren't

satisfied with a regional answer it is your right to kick it up the chain.  No a

lot different than appealing a court decision to a higher court. 

 

TG

CA - D3

 





--- On Mon, 7/6/09, rodman0563@... <rodman0563@...> wrote:





From: rodman0563@... <rodman0563@...>

Subject: Re: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 1:14 PM





Then they should be releived and repaced with someone that respects authoirity

and he/she should never be allowed to manage a team.....simple as that

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®



-----Original Message-----

From: "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@...>



Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:06:04

To: <llumpires@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?





Understand - it has to follow the chain, but no Manager I know of ever accepts

Regions ruling - why stop there.



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hester" <mapnodh@...> wrote:

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@> wrote:

> >

> > Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could

still send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.

> >

> > Jerry

>

> Jerry

>

> Check out Green Book page T-10, A (1-5)

>

> Manager lodges a protest. Play ceases.

> On field umpires conference and give consensus ruling.

> Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects

tournament director gets involved.  TD renders ruling.

> Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects,

call placed to regional HQ. Region renders ruling. Both managers accept or

reject. 1 manager rejects, call placed to WP.

> WP rules. Final & binding. Play resumes.

>

> I had a regular season game suspended then resumed and prior to resumption, I

requested same info from WR.  WR said that all pitching records of the suspended

portion of the game carried over to the resumed portion. Any pitcher burned in

the suspended portion may not pitch in the resumed portion of the game,

regardless if any game(s) were played in between the suspended portion and the

resumed portion, in which rest requirements could be met.  Pitcher of record at

the time of the suspension may pitch in the resumed portion provided he has

eligibility remaining for the day and week when the game is resumed.   WR also

indicated that all substitution records also carry over for purposes of

mandatory play.

>

> I think their line would be the same for tournament play.

>

> Don

> WA D-6

> 

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Clay Berry" <parkaleo@> wrote:

> > >

> > > If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle

it is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest

by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.

> > >

> > > clay

> > >

> > > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Manny,

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule. 

If

> > > > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > > > advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem to

be

> > > > the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on

the

> > > > side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> > > > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and the

> > > > wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't

believe

> > > > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the

system.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a

big

> > > > deal.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > All just my opinion, of course.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > >_____ 

> > > >

> > > > From: llumpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> > > > Of Jerry McKissack

> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > > > To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

> > > > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> > > >

> > > > Jerry

> > > >

> > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,

> > > > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

convince

> > > > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> > > > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> > > > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > > > answer is waning.

> > > > >

> > > > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game

that

> > > > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> > > > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now

require

> > > > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to

serve

> > > > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > > > >

> > > > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > > > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings

are

> > > > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game

if it

> > > > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

rest

> > > > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> > > > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just

tell

> > > > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal

with it

> > > > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > > > >

> > > > > Manny Aponte

> > > > > VA D9 UIC

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







------------------------------------



--

The Little League Umpires Mailing List is not affiliated with Little League

Baseball, Inc.



To UNSUBSCRIBE send mail to: llumpires-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Please respect the content of other people's messages and ask permission for

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

just a reminder.......  TG = Token Greek









________________________________

From: Theodore Gazulis <tgazulis@...>

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 10:12:05 PM

Subject: Re: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?











Not so simple at all, and it really doesn't have anything to do with respect

for authority.   WP has the final authority on any protests.  If you aren't

satisfied with a regional answer it is your right to kick it up the chain.  No a

lot different than appealing a court decision to a higher court. 

 

TG

CA - D3

 



--- On Mon, 7/6/09, rodman0563@yahoo. com <rodman0563@yahoo. com> wrote:



From: rodman0563@yahoo. com <rodman0563@yahoo. com>

Subject: Re: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

To: llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com

Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 1:14 PM



Then they should be releived and repaced with someone that respects authoirity

and he/she should never be allowed to manage a team.....simple as that

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®



-----Original Message-----

From: "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@ yahoo.com>



Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:06:04

To: <llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com>

Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?



Understand - it has to follow the chain, but no Manager I know of ever accepts

Regions ruling - why stop there.



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Hester" <mapnodh@... > wrote:

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@ > wrote:

> >

> > Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could

still send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.

> >

> > Jerry

>

> Jerry

>

> Check out Green Book page T-10, A (1-5)

>

> Manager lodges a protest. Play ceases.

> On field umpires conference and give consensus ruling.

> Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects

tournament director gets involved.  TD renders ruling.

> Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects,

call placed to regional HQ. Region renders ruling. Both managers accept or

reject. 1 manager rejects, call placed to WP.

> WP rules. Final & binding. Play resumes.

>

> I had a regular season game suspended then resumed and prior to resumption, I

requested same info from WR.  WR said that all pitching records of the suspended

portion of the game carried over to the resumed portion. Any pitcher burned in

the suspended portion may not pitch in the resumed portion of the game,

regardless if any game(s) were played in between the suspended portion and the

resumed portion, in which rest requirements could be met.  Pitcher of record at

the time of the suspension may pitch in the resumed portion provided he has

eligibility remaining for the day and week when the game is resumed.   WR also

indicated that all substitution records also carry over for purposes of

mandatory play.

>

> I think their line would be the same for tournament play.

>

> Don

> WA D-6

> 

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com, "Clay Berry" <parkaleo@> wrote:

> > >

> > > If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle

it is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest

by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.

> > >

> > > clay

> > >

> > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@ > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Manny,

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule. 

If

> > > > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > > > advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem to

be

> > > > the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on

the

> > > > side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> > > > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and the

> > > > wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't

believe

> > > > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the

system.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a

big

> > > > deal.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > All just my opinion, of course.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > >_____ 

> > > >

> > > > From: llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com] On

Behalf

> > > > Of Jerry McKissack

> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > > > To: llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com

> > > > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> > > >

> > > > Jerry

> > > >

> > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires% 40yahoogroups. com>

ps.com,

> > > > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@ > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

convince

> > > > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> > > > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> > > > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > > > answer is waning.

> > > > >

> > > > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game

that

> > > > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> > > > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now

require

> > > > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to

serve

> > > > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > > > >

> > > > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > > > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings

are

> > > > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game

if it

> > > > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

rest

> > > > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> > > > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just

tell

> > > > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal

with it

> > > > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > > > >

> > > > > Manny Aponte

> > > > > VA D9 UIC

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------ --------- --------- ------



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The Little League Umpires Mailing List is not affiliated with Little League

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To UNSUBSCRIBE send mail to: llumpires-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Finally got something official from Williamsport.



A continuation game WILL serve as a game of rest for pitchers requiring it, as

long as it goes one complete inning.



Manny Aponte

VA D9 UIC



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@...> wrote:

>

> I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince a

couple of managers what they face.  I also asked the question on the LL

website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't answered

a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely answer is waning.

>

> This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that was

stopped due to weather last week.  In the meantime, both teams played complete

games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require rest.  They

want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve as the game-rest

requirement for those pitchers.

>

> A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that resumed

games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are played. 

That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it goes one

inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest basically

turns this into two separate games.

>

> So, does anybody have anything official to offer?  My DA feels that the

resumed game should count, and I disagree.  I feel like I should just tell both

managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it the

old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

>

> Manny Aponte

> VA D9 UIC

>

Cool - now ask them about which pitchers are eligible.



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@...> wrote:

>

> Finally got something official from Williamsport.

>

> A continuation game WILL serve as a game of rest for pitchers requiring it, as

long as it goes one complete inning.

>

> Manny Aponte

> VA D9 UIC

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> >

> > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince a

couple of managers what they face.  I also asked the question on the LL

website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't answered

a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely answer is waning.

> >

> > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that

was stopped due to weather last week.  In the meantime, both teams played

complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require rest. 

They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve as the

game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> >

> > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that resumed

games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are played. 

That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it goes one

inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest basically

turns this into two separate games.

> >

> > So, does anybody have anything official to offer?  My DA feels that the

resumed game should count, and I disagree.  I feel like I should just tell both

managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it the

old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> >

> > Manny Aponte

> > VA D9 UIC

> >

>

Here are the rules covering the pitching eligibility for the continuation of a

suspended game: Tournament rule 4.



c.Junior League: a pitcher remaining in the game, but moving to a different

position, can return as a pitcher anytime in the remainder of the game, but only

once per game.



h. In a game suspended by darkness, weather, or other causes and resumed the

following calendar day, the pitcher of record at the time the game was halted

may continue to the extent of his/her eligibility, provided he/she delivered 40

or less pitches, and subject to each of these conditions:

1. If the pitcher delivered 20 or less pitches before the game was suspended,

that pitcher's pitch count will begin at zero for the continuation portion of

the game;

2. If the pitcher delivered between 21 and 40 pitches before the game was

suspended, that pitcher's pitch count will begin with the number of pitches

delivered in that game;



i. In a game (Game A) suspended by darkness, weather, or other causes and

resumed more than one calenday day later, the provisions of (h.) above shall

apply, unless the pitcher of record pitched in another game or games after Game

A was halted. In that event, eligibility to pitch in continuation portion of

Game A shall be determined by the number of pitches delivered in the game or

games after Game A was halted.



so WHO IS ELIGIBLE in the continued game? This is my opinion only.



  The pitcher of record unless he pitched in the weekend game and became

ineligible. He could continue pitching, OR if remains in the game at another

position, then he could return later once.



  Any pitcher once removed and remaining in the game could then return once. (if

other pitchers had pitched before the suspension and remained in the game at

another position and did not become ineligble in the weekend game they could

pitch again)



  Any player other than the players inelgible from previous games due to rest

requirements.



  As was noted this would count as a game of rest for any pitchers needing a game

rest before they could pitch again as long as one complete inning is played.











--- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@...> wrote:

>

> Cool - now ask them about which pitchers are eligible.

>

> Jerry

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> >

> > Finally got something official from Williamsport.

> >

> > A continuation game WILL serve as a game of rest for pitchers requiring it,

as long as it goes one complete inning.

> >

> > Manny Aponte

> > VA D9 UIC

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogroups.com, "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to convince

a couple of managers what they face.  I also asked the question on the LL

website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't answered

a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely answer is waning.

> > >

> > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game that

was stopped due to weather last week.  In the meantime, both teams played

complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now require rest. 

They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to serve as the

game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > >

> > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings are

played.  That's because the first part of the game does count as a game if it

goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of rest

basically turns this into two separate games.

> > >

> > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer?  My DA feels that the

resumed game should count, and I disagree.  I feel like I should just tell both

managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal with it the

old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > >

> > > Manny Aponte

> > > VA D9 UIC

> > >

> >

>

We need another Greek in here... that way we can use another of the truisms: 

Two Greeks, three opinions.

 

TG

CA - D3

(Currently only one opinion at a time)



--- On Tue, 7/7/09, Bill Bruce <dybumpire@...> wrote:





From: Bill Bruce <dybumpire@...>

Subject: Re: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 4:23 AM





just a reminder.......  TG = Token Greek









________________________________

From: Theodore Gazulis <tgazulis@...>

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 10:12:05 PM

Subject: Re: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?











Not so simple at all, and it really doesn't have anything to do with respect

for authority.   WP has the final authority on any protests.  If you aren't

satisfied with a regional answer it is your right to kick it up the chain.  No a

lot different than appealing a court decision to a higher court. 

 

TG

CA - D3

 



--- On Mon, 7/6/09, rodman0563@yahoo. com <rodman0563@yahoo. com> wrote:



From: rodman0563@yahoo. com <rodman0563@yahoo. com>

Subject: Re: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

To: llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com

Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 1:14 PM



Then they should be releived and repaced with someone that respects authoirity

and he/she should never be allowed to manage a team.....simple as that

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®



-----Original Message-----

From: "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@ yahoo.com>



Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:06:04

To: <llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com>

Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?



Understand - it has to follow the chain, but no Manager I know of ever accepts

Regions ruling - why stop there.



Jerry



--- In llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Hester" <mapnodh@... > wrote:

>

> --- In llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com, "Jerry McKissack" <jlmckissack@ > wrote:

> >

> > Regions can't rule on protests - it has to go to LL HQ, but Manny could

still send the question up the chain in order to avoid a protest.

> >

> > Jerry

>

> Jerry

>

> Check out Green Book page T-10, A (1-5)

>

> Manager lodges a protest. Play ceases.

> On field umpires conference and give consensus ruling.

> Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects

tournament director gets involved.  TD renders ruling.

> Both managers accept or reject. Accepted, play continues. 1 manager rejects,

call placed to regional HQ. Region renders ruling. Both managers accept or

reject. 1 manager rejects, call placed to WP.

> WP rules. Final & binding. Play resumes.

>

> I had a regular season game suspended then resumed and prior to resumption, I

requested same info from WR.  WR said that all pitching records of the suspended

portion of the game carried over to the resumed portion. Any pitcher burned in

the suspended portion may not pitch in the resumed portion of the game,

regardless if any game(s) were played in between the suspended portion and the

resumed portion, in which rest requirements could be met.  Pitcher of record at

the time of the suspension may pitch in the resumed portion provided he has

eligibility remaining for the day and week when the game is resumed.   WR also

indicated that all substitution records also carry over for purposes of

mandatory play.

>

> I think their line would be the same for tournament play.

>

> Don

> WA D-6

> 

> >

> > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com, "Clay Berry" <parkaleo@> wrote:

> > >

> > > If I was the opposing manager I would protest. So the best way to handle

it is to call your region and get a ruling. So you are not preventing a protest

by ruling one way or the other. It is best to get a clarification and not guess.

> > >

> > > clay

> > >

> > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com, "Ed Wiggins" <ewiggins11@ > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Manny,

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > I agree with Jerry.  You understand the spirit and intent of the rule. 

If

> > > > you believe a pitcher is being over used, or a team is trying to gain

> > > > advantage by loop hole that is one thing.  However that does not seem to

be

> > > > the case.  In the absence of official guidance we should come down on

the

> > > > side of common sense.  The rule is there to protect pitchers, not punish

> > > > them by making them sit without reasonable cause.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Our job is to prevent protests, not cause them.  Go with your DA and the

> > > > wishes of the participants.  I cannot see a down side if you don't

believe

> > > > there is any harm to the players and no one is trying to game the

system.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Since LL is not responding is seems obvious they do not see this as a

big

> > > > deal.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > All just my opinion, of course.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > >_____ 

> > > >

> > > > From: llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com] On

Behalf

> > > > Of Jerry McKissack

> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:45 AM

> > > > To: llumpires@yahoogrou ps.com

> > > > Subject: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game: Any Official Ruling?

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think it counts as a game. (Meets the spirit of the rule.)

> > > >

> > > > Jerry

> > > >

> > > > --- In llumpires@yahoogrou <mailto:llumpires% 40yahoogroups. com>

ps.com,

> > > > "Manny Aponte" <aponte5412@ > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I asked this on eteamz, and didn't get anything that I can use to

convince

> > > > a couple of managers what they face. I also asked the question on the LL

> > > > website's "Ask the Tournament Director" feature, but since they haven't

> > > > answered a question since June 30th, my confidence in getting a timely

> > > > answer is waning.

> > > > >

> > > > > This Tuesday (7/7), we are resuming a Juniors district pool-play game

that

> > > > was stopped due to weather last week. In the meantime, both teams played

> > > > complete games over the weekend where they used pitchers that now

require

> > > > rest. They want to know if the resumed game this Tuesday is going to

serve

> > > > as the game-rest requirement for those pitchers.

> > > > >

> > > > > A couple of folks on eteamz claim that they were told by Andy K that

> > > > resumed games never count as games of rest, no matter how many innings

are

> > > > played. That's because the first part of the game does count as a game

if it

> > > > goes one inning, and making the completion of the game another game of

rest

> > > > basically turns this into two separate games.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, does anybody have anything official to offer? My DA feels that the

> > > > resumed game should count, and I disagree. I feel like I should just

tell

> > > > both managers that it doesn't count, let them protest, and then deal

with it

> > > > the old-fashioned way (phone calls to LL HQ).

> > > > >

> > > > > Manny Aponte

> > > > > VA D9 UIC

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don't forget to argue it in half English/half  Greek.



Despite having a German surname, I am of 3/4  Greek heritage.





Alex







________________________________

From: Theodore Gazulis <tgazulis@...>

To: llumpires@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 12:39:18 AM

Subject: Re: [llumpires] Re: Rest for Resumed Game:  Any Official Ruling?











We need another Greek in here... that way we can use another of the truisms: 

Two Greeks, three opinions.



TG

CA - D3

(Currently only one opinion at a time)















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]