We had this battle about sled .vs. flat long time ago.

Sled more or less won due to its inherent stability and the "mysterious"
sled boosting effect.  Read
http://www.kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Sled_Boosting for the sled
boosting effect.

Even with flat LEI, the kiters' preference is SLE, not flat bow.  SLE
has more stability and "sled boosting" effect while offering full
depower (actually, it's the full depower that is important and not the
flatness of the kite).

Do we want a flatter flat LEI?  flatter than bow?  We have foils which
are probably better and more efficient.  Back to the future with foil?
I had this wonderfully sled/foil kite that can behave as a foil or sled
up to the desire of the kiter a while ago...

What is next for kites?

P.S., I was posting a message about bridle on the trailing edge of flat
LEI a while ago on these groups and it looks like someone is seriously
working on it.  Sounds like our discussions at the various Yahoo
kitesurf groups are always first in trend and direction (the same thing
happened with Flat LEI via the original discussion at
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/message/67005 )

Hung

Faction kites produced a kite with a second skin on the underside near
the leading edge. I never flew one but I understand that it was not a
tremendous improvement. The company is now defunct. I do recall
launching one and having a tough time holding the kite since I
couldn't get my hand around the leading edge.

Incidentally an airplane wing works when air pressure pulls the upper
surface upward from above, not pushes from below. It is more critical
that smooth laminar airflow occur above the wing than below.

Chris Glazier


--- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, George Sarris <jakefarley2000@...>
wrote:
>
> I believe that kite designers can improve on their
> designs in one other way.  That being the drag
> produced by turbulence around the leading edge
> bladder.  They have improved in making the LE bladders
> smaller in diameter and this has required increased
> pressure for the kite to hold its shape.  However, I
> wonder if there have been any experiments with adding
> another "skin" to smooth out the bottom of the kite
> reducing the turbulence and the drag making it more
> like an airfoil.
> Just curious.
>
> Cheers,
> George
>
> --- hungvu2000@... wrote:
>
> > I have been using and playing with a number of bow
> > (or almost bow) and
> > SLE kites in the past year.
> >
> > What I have found is that SLE is better in term of
> > stability (remember
> > the flatter is less stable formula with Seasmik) and
> > jumping performance
> > (the Sled Boosting effect).  On the other hand, the
> > bow is probably
> > better in term of speed performance (less fabric,
> > lighter kite for same
> > construction)
> >
> > So at one end you have SLE like Waroo, the other
> > end, you have bow like
> > the Crossbow, and a bit compromised Waroo-Pro (this
> > is between SLE and
> > mid-SLE), SwitchBlade, One, etc.
> >
> > The flatter the kite, the more concave the trailing
> > edge need to be
> > (probably only a true bow kite need to have concave
> > trailing edge) or
> > use a trailing edge bridle like the Seasmik.
> >
> > It is very interesting to observe that the flat kite
> > revolution that
> > started with the Seasmik, the Nexus (a bit too foil
> > oriented), this
> > experiment:
> >
> http://www.template-toolkit.org/tpc5/kitesurfing/index.html
> >
> > (has both curve LE and bow trailing edge) , the
> > Flexifoil curve leading
> > edge (probably taken from the previous experiment),
> > the bow patent
> > application from Bruno and ended with the SLE.
> >
> > Personally, the main reason why I want a SLE/bow
> > kite is for this reason
> >
> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/message/67005
> > (and the
> > market in 2006 has probably showed the preference).
> >
> > Hung.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
> Cheap talk?
> Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
> http://voice.yahoo.com
>

Don, Bruno and some others have made some experiment about "double skin"
inflatable in the past.  It's never gotten to the market stage
successfully..

Hung.

George Sarris wrote:

>I believe that kite designers can improve on their
>designs in one other way.  That being the drag
>produced by turbulence around the leading edge
>bladder.  They have improved in making the LE bladders
>smaller in diameter and this has required increased
>pressure for the kite to hold its shape.  However, I
>wonder if there have been any experiments with adding
>another "skin" to smooth out the bottom of the kite
>reducing the turbulence and the drag making it more
>like an airfoil.
>Just curious.
>
>Cheers,
>George
>
>--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
>
>
>
>>I have been using and playing with a number of bow
>>(or almost bow) and
>>SLE kites in the past year.
>>
>>What I have found is that SLE is better in term of
>>stability (remember
>>the flatter is less stable formula with Seasmik) and
>>jumping performance
>>(the Sled Boosting effect).  On the other hand, the
>>bow is probably
>>better in term of speed performance (less fabric,
>>lighter kite for same
>>construction)
>>
>>So at one end you have SLE like Waroo, the other
>>end, you have bow like
>>the Crossbow, and a bit compromised Waroo-Pro (this
>>is between SLE and
>>mid-SLE), SwitchBlade, One, etc.
>>
>>The flatter the kite, the more concave the trailing
>>edge need to be
>>(probably only a true bow kite need to have concave
>>trailing edge) or
>>use a trailing edge bridle like the Seasmik.
>>
>>It is very interesting to observe that the flat kite
>>revolution that
>>started with the Seasmik, the Nexus (a bit too foil
>>oriented), this
>>experiment:
>>
>>
>>
>http://www.template-toolkit.org/tpc5/kitesurfing/index.html
>
>
>>(has both curve LE and bow trailing edge) , the
>>Flexifoil curve leading
>>edge (probably taken from the previous experiment),
>>the bow patent
>>application from Bruno and ended with the SLE.
>>
>>Personally, the main reason why I want a SLE/bow
>>kite is for this reason
>>
>>
>>
>http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/message/67005
>
>
>>(and the
>>market in 2006 has probably showed the preference).
>>
>>Hung.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________\
_____
>Cheap talk?
>Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
>http://voice.yahoo.com
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I believe that kite designers can improve on their
designs in one other way.  That being the drag
produced by turbulence around the leading edge
bladder.  They have improved in making the LE bladders
smaller in diameter and this has required increased
pressure for the kite to hold its shape.  However, I
wonder if there have been any experiments with adding
another "skin" to smooth out the bottom of the kite
reducing the turbulence and the drag making it more
like an airfoil.
Just curious.

Cheers,
George

--- hungvu2000@... wrote:

> I have been using and playing with a number of bow
> (or almost bow) and
> SLE kites in the past year.
>
> What I have found is that SLE is better in term of
> stability (remember
> the flatter is less stable formula with Seasmik) and
> jumping performance
> (the Sled Boosting effect).  On the other hand, the
> bow is probably
> better in term of speed performance (less fabric,
> lighter kite for same
> construction)
>
> So at one end you have SLE like Waroo, the other
> end, you have bow like
> the Crossbow, and a bit compromised Waroo-Pro (this
> is between SLE and
> mid-SLE), SwitchBlade, One, etc.
>
> The flatter the kite, the more concave the trailing
> edge need to be
> (probably only a true bow kite need to have concave
> trailing edge) or
> use a trailing edge bridle like the Seasmik.
>
> It is very interesting to observe that the flat kite
> revolution that
> started with the Seasmik, the Nexus (a bit too foil
> oriented), this
> experiment:
>
http://www.template-toolkit.org/tpc5/kitesurfing/index.html
>
> (has both curve LE and bow trailing edge) , the
> Flexifoil curve leading
> edge (probably taken from the previous experiment),
> the bow patent
> application from Bruno and ended with the SLE.
>
> Personally, the main reason why I want a SLE/bow
> kite is for this reason
>
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/message/67005
> (and the
> market in 2006 has probably showed the preference).
>
> Hung.
>




________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com

I have been using and playing with a number of bow (or almost bow) and
SLE kites in the past year.

What I have found is that SLE is better in term of stability (remember
the flatter is less stable formula with Seasmik) and jumping performance
(the Sled Boosting effect).  On the other hand, the bow is probably
better in term of speed performance (less fabric, lighter kite for same
construction)

So at one end you have SLE like Waroo, the other end, you have bow like
the Crossbow, and a bit compromised Waroo-Pro (this is between SLE and
mid-SLE), SwitchBlade, One, etc.

The flatter the kite, the more concave the trailing edge need to be
(probably only a true bow kite need to have concave trailing edge) or
use a trailing edge bridle like the Seasmik.

It is very interesting to observe that the flat kite revolution that
started with the Seasmik, the Nexus (a bit too foil oriented), this
experiment: http://www.template-toolkit.org/tpc5/kitesurfing/index.html
(has both curve LE and bow trailing edge) , the Flexifoil curve leading
edge (probably taken from the previous experiment), the bow patent
application from Bruno and ended with the SLE.

Personally, the main reason why I want a SLE/bow kite is for this reason
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/message/67005 (and the
market in 2006 has probably showed the preference).

Hung.

I was at Playa Del Carmen a couple weeks ago and I had to walk 10 to 15
minutes from my hotel to get to a spot where there was enough beach
space to launch my 2006 kites  (with 25m lines).

I could have launched my kite next to the hotel with 20m line.

Yesterday one of my instructors went out with a 11m Rastaroo with 23m
line while others were out with 14m to 16m Waroo and 17m Fuel (with 25m
lines)

Looks like newer generation kites are more efficient now that we can
shorten our line to 20m or 23m.

This would reduce the space requirement 20%, reduce lots of hassel, more
riders per spots (and hopefully less danger ?)

P.S., We used to ride with 30m lines, then 27m, last couple years 25m,
now 23m, 20m and hopefully down to 15m, the minimum length for kiting ?

Hung.

Hi Hung

An old whitewater trick is to wear a super thin polyester sock and a smart wool
sock combo inside your wetsuit booties. Both are available at Mec or Trailhead.

Another and better option in my opinion, is to use a drysuit with attached feet
and then you can wear the above combo of socks inside the dry suit and use
whatever type of footware that best suit your purpose. A helmet liner also keeps
the the head warm.

Cheers Ishtar


----- Original Message ----
From: hungvu2000@...
To: cankitesurf@yahoogroups.com; kitesurf@yahoogroups.com;
ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 7:37:54 PM
Subject: [ksurfschool] Socks inside booties for cold day


I get cold  very easily as I don't have as much "protection" as heavier
guys.

Normally by this time of the year, my feet feel "numb" after half hour
of kiting.

Today, I used regular socks inside the booties (and also to cover my ankle).

It made lots of differences.

I felt "hot" and only my fingers (inside neoprene gloves) were a bit
cold at the end of the day.

I will wear some thin layer of glove inside the neoprene glove next time
and that should make me "invincible" for this cold Canadian mid to late
fall water.

P.S., Yes, the Ocean Rodeo Gyro Pro dry suit works great!

Hung.


If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
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to the most frequently asked questions.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I get cold  very easily as I don't have as much "protection" as heavier
guys.

Normally by this time of the year, my feet feel "numb" after half hour
of kiting.

Today, I used regular socks inside the booties (and also to cover my ankle).

It made lots of differences.

I felt "hot" and only my fingers (inside neoprene gloves) were a bit
cold at the end of the day.

I will wear some thin layer of glove inside the neoprene glove next time
and that should make me "invincible" for this cold Canadian mid to late
fall water.

P.S., Yes, the Ocean Rodeo Gyro Pro dry suit works great!

Hung.

The calm days of summer are past and the fall winds are starting to come
through and riders are stoked!  There are a ton of great events on the way
to Florida riders and the guys on the Net have been busy.  Check it out ...

- Florida Kiting Events!!!
Massive downwinders, kite parties and more.

- Snow in Ft. Lauderdale?

- New Island Discovery
Well worth a look.  Makes me want to hop a flight today!

- Kiter Munched By Monster Wave
Caught on camera, check it out.

- TIKI BEACH SEASON OPENER PARTY!!!
Neil really knows how to throw a party.  Lots of Gals and Guys showed up,
see the photos.

- Windsurfing is NOT Cancelled, good thing too!

- SURF ... a new way
Standup paddle surfing is coming on in a big way.  Catch the wave, paddle
style.

All this and more at:
http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=73

***

- Florida Ride Guide
Checkout the New SBC Kiteboard "Ride Guide" to Florida complete with links
to weather, launch info, shops, schools, etc..

- ** KITEBOARDING TRAVEL DISASTERS - Avoiding Them! **
There's a mouthful and a useful read.

Check it out in the FKA Travel section at:
http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=101

***

The guys in Tampa/St. Pete are going off with the fall winds.  Read about
the Kite Masters Competition, Parties, riding sessions and more at:
http://fksa.org/index.php?c=29

***

It's still better in the Bahamas, learn how first hand from the guys the
live and ride there at:
http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=98

***

There is a forum for all points within Florida, a place for riders to
connect, seek tips, swap gear, answer local questions and a great deal more.
   If the wind just turned on, there is HOWZAWIND?! a valuable aid that helps
to share the good news particularly when it cranks up out of the blue.

Checkout the various Florida Forums at:
http://fksa.org/index.php?c=23

***

Do you have questions about how to start kitesurfing, what gear to get,
instruction and more?

Here you go ...
http://fksa.org/index.php?c=28

***

Life teaches us lessons, whether we want them or not.  If guys share these
hard won lessons, why not tune in and perhaps spare ourselves a up close and
personal collision with reality.

That is what "Lessons From the Hardside" is all about ...
http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=81

and a great deal more!  Windzon, here anyway some slide on in and shred a
while.


FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi

We are finishing off our first season teaching with flat kite (Waroo
mainly) and  here is our report:
     1- Don't teach a student with a C kite (too much trouble)
     2- It is much easier and safer for the students to learn with flat kites
     3- The students will have no problem using a C kite after the lesson
     4- When teaching water relaunch, only teach the standard method to
relaunch the kite, that way, the student will have no problem using the
C kites afterward.
     5- The successful rate is very  high almost 100% while the
successful rate with the C kite is around 80%
     6- The student learn much faster and have more confident in the kite
     7- If you need to teach the student to use his own C kite, use a
flat kite bar, it will gives much more depowering capability than a
regular C kite bar.

Hung.

Hey, i am fairly new at the sport and am able to self launch with ease in 7+
knot winds. my problem is self landing the kite, i am using a cabrinha contra
with the gen2 recon system. i try landing the kite in the edge of the wind
window, but when its windy, the kite always catches and fills with air, then the
kite pulls really hard making it difficult to get to the kite and grab it. any
suggestions?
much appreciated,
joe


hungvu2000@... wrote:          I the past, with C kites, the chicken loop
were dangerous as it is often
very difficult to get out of the chicken loop when under extreme load.

So the manufacturers have made it over the years easy to get out of the
chicken loop (when under heavy loaded or not)

With the new generation of flat kite, the chicken loop is now the safety
leash (with a back up safety leash) and it is NO LONGER require to get
out of the chicken loop when under load because as soon as one let go of
the bar, the load is often light and one can leisurely get out of the
chicken loop in light load (I did that yesterday while self landing my
Waroo 9m in 30+ knots)..

Personally, it happen to me at least twice that my chicken loop (from at
least 2 different manufacturers) of my flat kites popped out when under
extreme load and that make the situation dangerous (the kite powered up
even more or become uncontrollable). In this situation, the kiter may
not be in danger but the bystanders may be heavily hit by the kite or
the kite could hit hard obstacle and get damaged.

So is it now the time for the manufacturers to consider making the
chicken loop more heavy duty and difficult to get out under heavy load?

Hung.





---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
  Everyone is raving about the  all-new Yahoo! Mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey, i am fairly new at the sport and am able to self launch with ease in 7+
knot winds. my problem is self landing the kite, i am using a cabrinha contra
with the gen2 recon system. i try landing the kite in the edge of the wind
window, but when its windy, the kite always catches and fills with air, then the
kite pulls really hard making it difficult to get to the kite and grab it. any
suggestions?
   much appreciated,
   joe

hungvu2000@... wrote:
           I the past, with C kites, the chicken loop were dangerous as it is
often
very difficult to get out of the chicken loop when under extreme load.

So the manufacturers have made it over the years easy to get out of the
chicken loop (when under heavy loaded or not)

With the new generation of flat kite, the chicken loop is now the safety
leash (with a back up safety leash) and it is NO LONGER require to get
out of the chicken loop when under load because as soon as one let go of
the bar, the load is often light and one can leisurely get out of the
chicken loop in light load (I did that yesterday while self landing my
Waroo 9m in 30+ knots)..

Personally, it happen to me at least twice that my chicken loop (from at
least 2 different manufacturers) of my flat kites popped out when under
extreme load and that make the situation dangerous (the kite powered up
even more or become uncontrollable). In this situation, the kiter may
not be in danger but the bystanders may be heavily hit by the kite or
the kite could hit hard obstacle and get damaged.

So is it now the time for the manufacturers to consider making the
chicken loop more heavy duty and difficult to get out under heavy load?

Hung.





---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hung,

I believe that even for flat/SLE/hybrid
kites, there is a need to have a way to get out of the

C-loop, and release to a kite leash.  I can see
a scenario in real gusty conditions, when a flat
kite starts falling back in the wind window due to
a major lull, then suddenly a huge gust hits, and
'Baaam!'  Or in the case of a bridle or other kite
failure where the kite goes into a death-loop and
cannot be depowered.  You need to release the power
from the C-loop without losing the kite/injuring
others.

Being lead into this false sense of security with the
new kites, can actually make them more dangerous than
C-kites, in the event the 'sh&* hits the fan!"

George.

--- hungvu2000@... wrote:

> I the past, with C kites, the chicken loop were
> dangerous as it is often
> very difficult to get out of the chicken loop when
> under extreme load.
>
> So the manufacturers have made it over the years
> easy to get out of the
> chicken loop (when under heavy loaded or not)
>
> With the new generation of flat kite, the chicken
> loop is now the safety
> leash (with a back up safety leash) and it is NO
> LONGER require to get
> out of the chicken loop when under load because as
> soon as one let go of
> the bar, the load is often light and one can
> leisurely get out of the
> chicken loop in light load (I did that yesterday
> while self landing my
> Waroo 9m in 30+ knots)..
>
> Personally, it happen to me at least twice that my
> chicken loop (from at
> least 2 different manufacturers) of my flat kites
> popped out when under
> extreme load and that make the situation dangerous
> (the kite powered up
> even more or become uncontrollable).  In this
> situation, the kiter may
> not be in danger but the bystanders may be heavily
> hit by the kite or
> the kite could hit hard obstacle and get damaged.
>
> So is it now the time for the manufacturers to
> consider making the
> chicken loop more heavy duty and difficult to get
> out under heavy load?
>
> Hung.
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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I the past, with C kites, the chicken loop were dangerous as it is often
very difficult to get out of the chicken loop when under extreme load.

So the manufacturers have made it over the years easy to get out of the
chicken loop (when under heavy loaded or not)

With the new generation of flat kite, the chicken loop is now the safety
leash (with a back up safety leash) and it is NO LONGER require to get
out of the chicken loop when under load because as soon as one let go of
the bar, the load is often light and one can leisurely get out of the
chicken loop in light load (I did that yesterday while self landing my
Waroo 9m in 30+ knots)..

Personally, it happen to me at least twice that my chicken loop (from at
least 2 different manufacturers) of my flat kites popped out when under
extreme load and that make the situation dangerous (the kite powered up
even more or become uncontrollable).  In this situation, the kiter may
not be in danger but the bystanders may be heavily hit by the kite or
the kite could hit hard obstacle and get damaged.

So is it now the time for the manufacturers to consider making the
chicken loop more heavy duty and difficult to get out under heavy load?

Hung.

There is some advice on the kitesurfingschool.org web
site that may prove beneficial.  It shows how to in
light winds and strong wind.  Below are some things
that helped me.

1. Limit the time you have the kite overhead at the
zenith when you are putting your feet into the straps.
  In shifting, gusty winds the kite may overfly and
then "Hindenburg", falling out of the sky.  This tip
is also good for strong gusty winds as you could get
lofted out of the water.  If at all possible, go out
in steady wind conditions where you are not
overpowered.

2. In light winds you may have to start the kite at
around 1 or 2 o'clock diving the kite to 9 o'clock to
get sufficient power to get you up out of the water.
In higher winds you can start around 12 o'clock
(zenith).  It's better at first to have less power and
fall backwards.  That way you won't get pulled over
the board and get dragged with your feet probably
coming out of the straps.  Then you will spend time
body dragging back to the board.

3. Wear some type of floatation vest.  If you fall
backwards, it will keep your head above water and
you'll spend less energy trying to stay afloat.  If
you are using a board leash, be sure to wear a helmet.
  All beginners should wear floatation and a helmet.

3. You should point the board downwind when you are
diving the kite to get power.  As soon as you are up,
start edging the board so as not to get overpowered on
a downwind run.  It make take some practice finding
the  balance of power and speed so not to get pulled
over the board.

4. Make sure you have plenty of room downwind, several
hundred yards, in case you go on a downwind run. If
you do get overpowered, edge hard with your back foot
and sheet out with the bar.

Hope this helps and you have good winds.

George

--- zack_1246 <Bob@...> wrote:

> I'm looking for some beginner how-to advice on water
> starting.
>
> Thanks for any advice or links.
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Yesterday, I was testing with a student using his 2005 Yarga and the
Waroo bar just to verify that the Waroo bar can also be used with the
student Yarga (a classic C kite) -  The student is buying a Waroo
completed and just want to make sure he can share the Waroo bar between
the 2 kites.

It's is amazing that the Yarga can depower so much with the Waroo bar
(almost to the same level as the Waroo).

So don't throw away your C kites or sell it for dirt cheap just yet,
just extend the chicken loop line on your old bar to use with your
classic C kites and you'll find that you will have a poor-man version a
the modern flat kite set up.

Hung.

For this summer, I started to rediscover my 5'9" Clam directional board
as a light wind board (I used to use it as a moderate to strong wind board).

I rigged my straps very forward the front so the board normally acts as
a 150 cm board and by pressing more on the back foot, the board feels
like a 140 board.  By putting the back foot just forward of the back
strap, the board feels like a 160 cm.

To use the board in its full 5'9" length (175cm), I just put my feet
centered on the board (the front foot is front of the front straps and
the back foot is forward of  the back strap) or in other words, treat
the directional as a bidirectional and ride it no-strap similar to a
skim board.

Since the board is so light, I notice that to jump I just need to have
only the front foot in the strap and can grab the tail of the board with
my hand when in the air for more balance in bigger jumps, and of course,
nowhip back loop feel great on a directional, especially in under 10 knots.

P.S., Of course this 5'9" board won't be able to compete with my
legendary FOne 230 in the light wind cruising department but this board
is only 6.5 lbs and great for jumping when the wind pick ups.

P.P.S., For most of this summer, I was using the Waroo 16m for light
wind.  A heavier weight kiter would need a 20m+.  I have read somewhere
that someone exagerate that they only need 12m kites for lightwind.
This is a bit exagerated or they don't really know what is really light
wind kiting.  While I am out on my 16m Waroo I have seen too many
heavier weight kiters wasting their time with 12m or even 16m kites
while they should be on 20m kites.

Hung.

I have just discovered the best new combination today: ligh wind,
directional and flat kite.

I rigged up my Waroo 16m with a 5'9" directional today and they worked
excellent in lightwind (probably around 8 to 10 knots)

Since the board was light (only 7 lbs fully loaded), the jumps were
excellent for such light condition.

Directional is for sure much faster than bidirectional in light wind as
you can pick up speed almost instantaneously.

Wind picks up and being overpower on a directional?  No problem with a
flat kite, just sheet out as far as your arm can go.

Jibing is so much fun.  I almost forgot how much fun it was when I first
successfully did my first jibe 7 years ago.

So don't write off directional just yet, they are definitely fun to ride
and jump in light wind, especially with the help of flat kites ...

Hung.

In a message dated 8/16/2006 4:25:49 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
mohr41@... writes:

Am  very curious about the sport and would like to get together with
some  local surfers to check it out. I'm in Hermosa Beach anyone close?

I've  never tried kitesurfing but have extensive ocean experience. I
would be  awesome to have one of you guys show me what's involved
instead of going  to a shop.

Blue Skies,
Morri



If you get down to the San Diego area there is a great spot to learn ( also
lessons available from Manta kitesurfing , great instructor) any weekend with
more than 10 MPH wind forecast and you will see 20 or so kiters, drop an
e-mail if you are coming and we can help inform you and perhaps let you have a
go at flying one of our kites. closer to the LA area is " Belmont Shores" in
long beach, I have kited there several times and the people seem friendly,
check  out " Captain Kirk's" kite store when you are there and ask for "Mel" ,
he
is an  upfront guy who will steer you right on equipment.
Denise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Am very curious about the sport and would like to get together with
some local surfers to check it out.  I'm in Hermosa Beach anyone close?

I've never tried kitesurfing but have extensive ocean experience.  I
would be awesome to have one of you guys show me what's involved
instead of going to a shop.

Blue Skies,
Morri

More info regarding PFD use in Canada.

Hung.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:  [OttawaKiting] FW: PFD requirements
Date:  Thu, 10 Aug 2006 15:06:49 -0400
From:  Steve Slaby <Steve.Slaby@...>
Reply-To:  OttawaKiting@yahoogroups.com
To:  <OttawaKiting@yahoogroups.com>



"Official" answer from the horse's mouth!

Based on the response It sounds like a grey area; I wonder whether that court
case would have been a winner or loser depending on how a judge would interpret
the "navigating" going from point "A" to point "B" part.

The good news is that either way it seems like Hung's Bay and Brent's Bay are
ticket free zones !!

Hung, feel free to forward to whatever mailing list the guy who had his ticket
cancelled; they may be interested in the TC response.

Steve.

From: Regnier, Patrick [mailto:REGNIEP@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:51 PM
To: Steve Slaby
Subject: RE: PFD requirements

Dear Mr. Slaby

With regard to kitesurfing.

Subsection 3.2 under Application in the Small Vessel Regulations
(http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/GENERAL/C/csa/regulations/070/csa076/csa76\
.html) stipulates the following:

"3. (2) These Regulations do not apply to floating devices that measure less
than 2 m in length and that are not designed to be fitted with a motor."

This subsection applies when the device is used near shore.

Please be aware, however, that if you operate the device amongst marine traffic
then the activity becomes "navigation" and the device becomes a vessel (and
would likely be treated as a sailboard therefore requiring the appropriate
safety equipment.)  At that point, the provisions of the Canada Shipping Act
apply and the vessel becomes subject to the requirements of the Small Vessel
Regulations and the Collision Regulations.

In order to ensure that your device remains within the confines of subsection
3.2 above, you should remain close to shore and refrain from embarking on a
visibly deliberate passage from a Point A to a Point B.

Please do not hesitate to contact me directly should you have any more
questions.

For further information, please visit www.boatingsafety.gc.ca
<http://www.boatingsafety.gc.ca>

Best Regards

Patrick Regnier
Design, Equipment and Boating Safety | Conception, équipement et sécurité
nautique
(613) 949-3816 | TTY / ATS 1-888-675-6863
REGNIEP@... <mailto:REGNIEP@...>
Transport Canada | Place de Ville (AMSR), Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0N5
Transports Canada | Place de Ville (AMSR) Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0N5
Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Life jacket as a mandatory requirement for kiters?

Hung.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:  [ottawaws] $355 no lifejacket fine
Date:  Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:28:41 -0400
From:  Andrew Devries <adevries@...>
Reply-To:  ottawaws@yahoogroups.com
To:  <ottawaws@yahoogroups.com>



Bottom line: If you have your driver's licence (or reasonable waterproof
facsimile thereof), whistle and an approved life jacket you will not get
the fines that I got last night. Also, do not try and explain your sport
to the officers as they don't really care and you may end up bumping a
warning ticket into the fines I got.



The guide:  Safe Boating Guide
http://www.tc.gc.ca/publications/EN/TP511/PDF/HR/TP511E.pdf (see
sailboards on page 29)



The story: I got pulled over by the Ottawa police boat last night in the
Greencreek area (west of Petrie Island) for sailing without a life
jacket- $235.



I tried to explain that my waist harness had floatation but was not
approved and my board also had tons of floatation (160l).  The officer
did not like what he thought were my "smartalec remarks" and asked if I
was carrying a driver's licence (I was not).  He then threatened me with
$1000 in fines.  I proceeded to shut my mouth and take what I feel
boardered on harassment.



Failing to have a lifejacket I got nailed for an additional $120 ticket
for failing to carry: watertight flashlight or flares, manual propelling
device (paddle) and 15 m of buoyant heaving line (?!). (You do not need
these if you have a lifejacket). (and no, hands do not count as a paddle
I asked after I got my tickets)



Fortunately I did have a whistle on my harness otherwise I might have
tallied up a few extra dollars as well. However, the officer suggested
that my whistle was probably not adequate and I should consider carrying
a Fox 40 (fair enough).



The officer did not fine me for a failure to carry a driver's licence,
although apparently he could have.



One of the officers suggested I was engaged in a very dangerous sport,
risking life and limb and "what would happened if I hit my head". I
suggested to the officer  that indeed windsurfing was pretty safe and
people all over the world sail without life vests and which point the
officer replied "well you are in Canada now". I shut up again.



At one point the police cruiser floated over top of my sail and mast
with the engine running and I pointed out that my sail might get caught
in the motor could they please kill the motor.  They did but only after
I was criticized for not being a good enough sailor to keep my sail from
going under the boat (ummm, you guys pulled along side me not vice-versa
I said in my head).



It took about 30 minutes of floating downriver with the cops to fill out
the tickets and radio in my driver's licence at which point the wind
died and I walked back home.



I am wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and wondering what
they did.  I find these requirements and the Ottawa police service
approach a little out of touch with the nature of the sport.



I am willing to challenge this silly precedent, including a letter
writing campaign to Transport Canada (the federal agency responsible for
the Canada Shipping Act under which I was charged (Sec 4 and 16.01) and
the Ottawa Police Service but would not want to turn this into a
crackdown on windsurfers.  This is the first time I have ever been
stopped by the cops and I know the lifejacket debate has been around for
years in the windsurfing community (I wear one about 50% of the time)
but have not worn one this summer.



Thoughts anyone?



AdV







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Everyone involved with kitesurfing in the early days knows about the
foil .vs. inflatable battle.

Foils are too flat and inflatables are too C.

Foils are more efficient and inflatables are more stable and there is
this "sled boosting" effect.

Now with flat LEIs, there may be similar battle between too flat flat
LEIs (e.g. Bows) and too C flat LEIs (e.g. SLEs)

I have flown a couple flat LEIs and found that for a too flat LEI, the
kite is efficient but at the same time very slow turning (similar to
foil) unless you have a longer bar or a pulley bar

Of course, too C flat LEI is not as efficient but it has similar effects
as a classic LEI.

Wondering which type of flat LEI will win eventually....

P.S., Personally, I think flatter, more efficient kites (like foil) are
more for high speed, advanced kiters who want to juice as much power
from the kite and stable, "sled boosting" kites are more for everyone
else who simply want to have fun, boosting high and tricks.

Hung.

It allows you to:
     1- Set up the kite in tiny spot (20' by 20' spot will do)
     2- Drift launch the kite alone without the danger of getting the
lines tangled.

This device will allow kiters to launch where the windsurfers, canoers
can launch without all the hassles of carrying heavy windsurfing or
canoeing equipment.

Hung.

Thomas George DeMille wrote:

>Hey Hung, the turbolauncher web site doesn't do a good job of showing
>exactly what this thing
>does, can you explain?  It looks like a compilcated line winder.  Does
>it allow you to acually
>launch the kite and then let the lines out slowly while the kite is in
>the air?  Or does it allow
>you to drift launch the kite without the lines getting tangled?
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hey Hung, the turbolauncher web site doesn't do a good job of showing
exactly what this thing
does, can you explain?  It looks like a compilcated line winder.  Does
it allow you to acually
launch the kite and then let the lines out slowly while the kite is in
the air?  Or does it allow
you to drift launch the kite without the lines getting tangled?

Tom

hi,
i'm just getting into kiting. have been out on land a
few times and hope to do a session in water with some
friends this week.  next week my work takes me to
ottawa for over a month. i'd like to bring my kites
with me and get out on the weekends.  i'm sure i can
find patches of land to fly on but what about water?
are there areas where kiters go to for surfing? being
new, i'd prefer to be in an area where others are out
and about that can help if needed.
cheers
matt

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I have been vacationing with the family at Sandbridge, VA in the last
couple summers.

In the past, I normally only kite in the Ocean as the Back Bay area has
no beach and only tiny access spots for canoe or small boat.

The wind is normall very strong from the S or SW (the dominant wind
direction for northern hemisphere).

Today I launch my 9m Waroo myself with the Turbo Launcher from a tiny
canoe launch at Back Bay across from the Little Island Park (you can pay
$5 to park in the park or park free on the road side 50m from the park -
very limited parking spaces here, also watch out for soft sand if you
don't have 4x4)

Launching is no problem once you walk your kite out into open water
around waist deep.

The kiting was excellent at Back Bay (mostly waist deep), strong, clean
wind and pretty flat water.

Two other kiters joined me afterward, they did have the Turbo Launcher
but they had two and helped each other to get launch.

Hung.

Denise,

All flat kites 12m or under can be raise to a vertical C easily by
pulling on one of the back line in ridable wind.

For larger flat kites (e.g. Waroo 14m and larger), you can launch them
the same way as a classic but don't have to swim much toward the kite.

The other option is to push the bar out, pull around 1m or 2m of  one of
the back lines and swim/walk toward the other direction to help the kite
to raise to a vertical C.  We taught that method to the student and we
can raise the 16m Waroo fairly confidently (haven't try to raise the 20m
Waroo yet) in wind just enough to ride and learn.  For other flat kites,
you can probably do similarly.

Hung.

DeniseSEWA@... wrote:

>
>In a message dated 7/12/2006 5:17:57 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
>hungvu2000@... writes:
>
>
>
>I have been using the Waroo extensively for the whole winter, spring and
>almost half of the summer now!
>
>P.S., The stopper ball on the  chicken loop is great and make the kite
>behave similar to a classic when  you are not holding the bar (for
>deadman trick or other reasons), but at  the same time, it makes the kite
>only as safe as the classic unless the  tension on the stopper ball is
>set to real low (then you cannot do the  deadman trick anyway).
>Personally, I would set the stopper ball as far as  possible on land and
>may move it in closer when in deep water. The other  option is to always
>set it to as far as your arm can reach or not having  the stopper ball at
>all especially if you want a safer flat  kite.
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi, Check out the "punch through" stopper on the sonic, I made one of these
>for my Waroo 14, it has enough tension for tricks and unspinning the bar but
>can  be pushed through with your bar to get full depower back.
>Also, I am having a difficult time water relaunching the 14 waroo in light
>winds, any advice or Vids out there, I have tried everything on Bests site and
>do eventually get it but often after a long time in the water and have not
>had  to try it without my board yet.
> I have been self landing as you described in an earlier post and it  works
>perfect, thanks for that one ;)
>Denise
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>

For flat kites, you can launch hook in.

All you need to do is to release the bar, the kite should stop pulling.
If not then you don't have it rigged properly.

All of our students can dive the Waroos across the power zone and just
let go of the bar without much pulling (it's one of the thrills we
practice in the water).

Hung.

David Alger wrote:

>Thanks for all the input on the flat kites!
>
>I'm a novice but had no trouble with a 5 Waroo in 35 knots at Real. I
>now have a 12 I used once with no problem.  But it was a little under
>powered, so I moved the back lines up from the second knot to the
>third.  Then I got pulled over the board a couple of times, finally
>losing control and having the bar ripped out of my hands.  Somehow the
>donkey/loop unhooked, luckily, and I was wrist leashed to a depowered
>soaked kite.  Any ideas?  Just a bad control day on my part?  (I did
>have one back line going around a front line, but it seems to fly OK.)
>
>I now must launch and stay hooked in so I can depower; I guess that's
>where the (missing) stopper ball comes in.  So that seems more
>dangerous.  As long as you stay upright and in control, I guess the
>depower works great, but in the fog of no control, I feel no safer.
>Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 7/12/2006 5:17:57 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
hungvu2000@... writes:



I have been using the Waroo extensively for the whole winter, spring and
almost half of the summer now!

P.S., The stopper ball on the  chicken loop is great and make the kite
behave similar to a classic when  you are not holding the bar (for
deadman trick or other reasons), but at  the same time, it makes the kite
only as safe as the classic unless the  tension on the stopper ball is
set to real low (then you cannot do the  deadman trick anyway).
Personally, I would set the stopper ball as far as  possible on land and
may move it in closer when in deep water. The other  option is to always
set it to as far as your arm can reach or not having  the stopper ball at
all especially if you want a safer flat  kite.





Hi, Check out the "punch through" stopper on the sonic, I made one of these
for my Waroo 14, it has enough tension for tricks and unspinning the bar but
can  be pushed through with your bar to get full depower back.
Also, I am having a difficult time water relaunching the 14 waroo in light
winds, any advice or Vids out there, I have tried everything on Bests site and
do eventually get it but often after a long time in the water and have not
had  to try it without my board yet.
  I have been self landing as you described in an earlier post and it  works
perfect, thanks for that one ;)
Denise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]