I would think that the faster your board speed, the
harder it would be to go upwind.  It's the same
principle as in sailing - to go faster you have to
bear off the wind.  If you go slower, you can point
higher upwind, if you have sufficient wind to stay on
a plane.  Also, the higher aspect ratio kites seem to
go upwind better.  I personally prefer the "high mode"
at 10 o'clock to go upwind as it is far more relaxing
as long as you are not overpowered and can keep an
edge.

George

--- hungvu2000@... wrote:

> Jim,
>
> The "high mode" is when you want to relax a bit or
> when way overpowered.
>
> The "low mode" is for cranking therefore the higher
> speed.
>
> Hung.
>
> ex_cpe wrote:
>
> >
> > The second person I mentioned who flys fast and
> low is an enigma.  Out
> > of a regular crew
> > of about eight people, this person comes in a flys
> in another style.
> > He's easily 20% faster
> > than most people out.
> >
> > On a 12M day with gusts the mid-20kts, his kite
> seems to have a deeper
> > C-shape, his
> > board threw a much higher wake...but I was not
> close enough to him to
> > see what was
> > different about his physical stance.
> >
> > So.. The increased speed assumption about him
> 'riding the fins' rather
> > than the edge
> > perhaps goes out the window because of the high
> wake..   His board and
> > kites are both
> > recent North... and everyone here seems to ride
> about a 130cm board
> > and uses a seat
> > harness, but I'm wondering if foot/body placement
> could be the clue to
> > his speed?
> >
> > When very well powered, have you ever tried a
> heavy back foot plant
> > with almost a 'pull
> > up/negative pressure' on the front foot with the
> body angled
> > rearward?  ...or is a low-butt,
> > near even foot pressure with only a slight reward
> torso postion
> > better?   I can ride either
> > way, but don't seem to be able to measure the
> difference.
> >
> > ........I thought about a wake-styled board with a
> lot of rocker
> > making that wake, but then
> > the speed would be slower due to the drag, no?
> ...thoughts?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> answers
> > to the most frequently asked questions.
> >
> > To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > To subscribe, please send an email to
> ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Sports fund raising
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+fund+raising&w1=Sports+fund+raising&\
w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+cour\
se&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=eLCx4IoGBM3Qau-DGcajsA>
>
> >  Sports psychology degree
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+psychology+degree&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=QUNPM8Okj6FMCJiSt2TYkA>
>
> >  Sport psychology college
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+college&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=cJ6O60rEpspUrqAHiQMllQ>
>
> >
> > Sport psychology course
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+course&w1=Sports+fund+rais\
ing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+\
course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=-2DJpY6wcesYaYCrGVN8SQ>
>
> >  Experience
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Experience&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports\
+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Exp\
erience&c=5&s=130&.sig=9M_cFKXKf4ov-fi0eyPM_w>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >     *  Visit your group "ksurfschool
> >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>"
> on the web.
> >
> >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> >        ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
>
<mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of
> >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>





__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Hey gang...I'm going to Cuba in December to see a friend get married.  We'll be
near Guardalavaca...does anyone know if there's any kiting around there.  I've
inquired at the resort but they don't allow it on their small beaches.

Tom
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: George Sarris<mailto:jakefarley2000@...>
   To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 6:24 PM
   Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] two of two: Speed..


   I would think that the faster your board speed, the
   harder it would be to go upwind.  It's the same
   principle as in sailing - to go faster you have to
   bear off the wind.  If you go slower, you can point
   higher upwind, if you have sufficient wind to stay on
   a plane.  Also, the higher aspect ratio kites seem to
   go upwind better.  I personally prefer the "high mode"
   at 10 o'clock to go upwind as it is far more relaxing
   as long as you are not overpowered and can keep an
   edge.

   George

   --- hungvu2000@... wrote:

   > Jim,
   >
   > The "high mode" is when you want to relax a bit or
   > when way overpowered.
   >
   > The "low mode" is for cranking therefore the higher
   > speed.
   >
   > Hung.
   >
   > ex_cpe wrote:
   >
   > >
   > > The second person I mentioned who flys fast and
   > low is an enigma.  Out
   > > of a regular crew
   > > of about eight people, this person comes in a flys
   > in another style.
   > > He's easily 20% faster
   > > than most people out.
   > >
   > > On a 12M day with gusts the mid-20kts, his kite
   > seems to have a deeper
   > > C-shape, his
   > > board threw a much higher wake...but I was not
   > close enough to him to
   > > see what was
   > > different about his physical stance.
   > >
   > > So.. The increased speed assumption about him
   > 'riding the fins' rather
   > > than the edge
   > > perhaps goes out the window because of the high
   > wake..   His board and
   > > kites are both
   > > recent North... and everyone here seems to ride
   > about a 130cm board
   > > and uses a seat
   > > harness, but I'm wondering if foot/body placement
   > could be the clue to
   > > his speed?
   > >
   > > When very well powered, have you ever tried a
   > heavy back foot plant
   > > with almost a 'pull
   > > up/negative pressure' on the front foot with the
   > body angled
   > > rearward?  ...or is a low-butt,
   > > near even foot pressure with only a slight reward
   > torso postion
   > > better?   I can ride either
   > > way, but don't seem to be able to measure the
   > difference.
   > >
   > > ........I thought about a wake-styled board with a
   > lot of rocker
   > > making that wake, but then
   > > the speed would be slower due to the drag, no?
   > ...thoughts?
   > >
   > > Jim
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
   > >
http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm<http://www.kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.\
htm> for the
   > answers
   > > to the most frequently asked questions.
   > >
   > > To unsubscribe, please send an email to
   > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
   > > To subscribe, please send an email to
   > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > SPONSORED LINKS
   > > Sports fund raising
   > >
   >
  
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+fund+raising&w1=Sports+fund+raising&\
w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+cour\
se&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=eLCx4IoGBM3Qau-DGcajsA<http://groups.yahoo.com/g\
ads?t=ms&k=Sports+fund+raising&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports+psychology+degre\
e&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130\
&.sig=eLCx4IoGBM3Qau-DGcajsA>>
   >
   > >       Sports psychology degree
   > >
   >
  
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+psychology+degree&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=QUNPM8Okj6FMCJiSt2TYkA<http://groups.yahoo.\
com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+psychology+degree&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports+psycho\
logy+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Experience\
&c=5&s=130&.sig=QUNPM8Okj6FMCJiSt2TYkA>>
   >
   > >       Sport psychology college
   > >
   >
  
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+college&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=cJ6O60rEpspUrqAHiQMllQ<http://groups.yahoo.\
com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+college&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports+psycho\
logy+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Experience\
&c=5&s=130&.sig=cJ6O60rEpspUrqAHiQMllQ>>
   >
   > >
   > > Sport psychology course
   > >
   >
  
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+course&w1=Sports+fund+rais\
ing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+\
course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=-2DJpY6wcesYaYCrGVN8SQ<http://groups.yahoo.c\
om/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+course&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports+psycholo\
gy+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Experience&c\
=5&s=130&.sig=-2DJpY6wcesYaYCrGVN8SQ>>
   >
   > >       Experience
   > >
   >
  
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Experience&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports\
+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Exp\
erience&c=5&s=130&.sig=9M_cFKXKf4ov-fi0eyPM_w<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&\
k=Experience&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychol\
ogy+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=9M_cFKXKf4ov\
-fi0eyPM_w>>
   >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   >
   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
   > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
   > >
   > >     *  Visit your group "ksurfschool
   > >      
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfsc\
hool>>"
   > on the web.
   > >
   > >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an
   > email to:
   > >        ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   > >
   >
   <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
   > >
   > >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
   > Yahoo! Terms of
   > >       Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>>.
   > >
   > >
   > >
   >
   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
   > >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been
   > removed]
   >
   >





   __________________________________
   Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
   http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>


   If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
  
http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm<http://www.kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.\
htm> for the answers
   to the most frequently asked questions.

   To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
   To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com




   SPONSORED LINKS Sports fund
raising<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+fund+raising&w1=Sports+fund+r\
aising&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psycholo\
gy+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=eLCx4IoGBM3Qau-DGcajsA>  Sports
psychology
degree<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+psychology+degree&w1=Sports+fu\
nd+raising&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psyc\
hology+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=QUNPM8Okj6FMCJiSt2TYkA>  Sport
psychology
college<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+college&w1=Sports+f\
und+raising&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psy\
chology+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=cJ6O60rEpspUrqAHiQMllQ>
         Sport psychology
course<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+course&w1=Sports+fun\
d+raising&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psych\
ology+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=-2DJpY6wcesYaYCrGVN8SQ> 
Experience<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Experience&w1=Sports+fund+raising\
&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+cou\
rse&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=9M_cFKXKf4ov-fi0eyPM_w>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

     a..  Visit your group
"ksurfschool<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>" on the web.

     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
     
ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogrou\
ps.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jim,

The ansver may be a concave board. More and more of
the new boards got a lot of concave in the design. I
recently bought one myself and had to adapt my riding
tech to it:

1 - you don't have to edge as much as with a
"conventional" flat board, so you can have lower board
angle and still going upwind. It increases the low end
of kitesurfing and also upwind capabilities.

2 - Due to the concave shape you can use shorter fins
on these boards and thus it increases the speed (my
concave board got 3cm fins, on my "normal" flat boards
I use 5cm fins...) Despite shorter fins the concave
bord got better grip, upwind and general
performance...

Optimal kite angle for going upwind depends a lot on
the kite and wind condition. 45-50 deg is a good bet
for optimal angle with most kites. If you put the kite
too low it normally pulls you downwind but the higher
AR of the kite the lower you can have it. With the
flysurfer speed (extremely high AR) many people advise
to fly it low in the window...

/Jakob


--- George Sarris <jakefarley2000@...> skrev:


---------------------------------
I would think that the faster your board speed, the
harder it would be to go upwind.  It's the same
principle as in sailing - to go faster you have to
bear off the wind.  If you go slower, you can point
higher upwind, if you have sufficient wind to stay on
a plane.  Also, the higher aspect ratio kites seem to
go upwind better.  I personally prefer the "high mode"
at 10 o'clock to go upwind as it is far more relaxing
as long as you are not overpowered and can keep an
edge.

George

--- hungvu2000@... wrote:

> Jim,
>
> The "high mode" is when you want to relax a bit or
> when way overpowered.
>
> The "low mode" is for cranking therefore the higher
> speed.
>
> Hung.
>
> ex_cpe wrote:
>
> >
> > The second person I mentioned who flys fast and
> low is an enigma.  Out
> > of a regular crew
> > of about eight people, this person comes in a flys
> in another style.
> > He's easily 20% faster
> > than most people out.
> >
> > On a 12M day with gusts the mid-20kts, his kite
> seems to have a deeper
> > C-shape, his
> > board threw a much higher wake...but I was not
> close enough to him to
> > see what was
> > different about his physical stance.
> >
> > So.. The increased speed assumption about him
> 'riding the fins' rather
> > than the edge
> > perhaps goes out the window because of the high
> wake..   His board and
> > kites are both
> > recent North... and everyone here seems to ride
> about a 130cm board
> > and uses a seat
> > harness, but I'm wondering if foot/body placement
> could be the clue to
> > his speed?
> >
> > When very well powered, have you ever tried a
> heavy back foot plant
> > with almost a 'pull
> > up/negative pressure' on the front foot with the
> body angled
> > rearward?  ...or is a low-butt,
> > near even foot pressure with only a slight reward
> torso postion
> > better?   I can ride either
> > way, but don't seem to be able to measure the
> difference.
> >
> > ........I thought about a wake-styled board with a
> lot of rocker
> > making that wake, but then
> > the speed would be slower due to the drag, no?
> ...thoughts?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> answers
> > to the most frequently asked questions.
> >
> > To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > To subscribe, please send an email to
> ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Sports fund raising
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+fund+raising&w1=Sports+fund+raising&\
w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+cour\
se&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=eLCx4IoGBM3Qau-DGcajsA>
>
> >       Sports psychology degree
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+psychology+degree&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=QUNPM8Okj6FMCJiSt2TYkA>
>
> >       Sport psychology college
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+college&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=cJ6O60rEpspUrqAHiQMllQ>
>
> >
> > Sport psychology course
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+course&w1=Sports+fund+rais\
ing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+\
course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=-2DJpY6wcesYaYCrGVN8SQ>
>
> >       Experience
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Experience&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports\
+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Exp\
erience&c=5&s=130&.sig=9M_cFKXKf4ov-fi0eyPM_w>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >     *  Visit your group "ksurfschool
> >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>"
> on the web.
> >
> >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> >        ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
>
<mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of
> >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>





__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com


If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
answers
to the most frequently asked questions.

To unsubscribe, please send an email to
ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
To subscribe, please send an email to
ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com




       SPONSORED LINKS
                                                 Sports
fund raising                                    Sports
psychology degree
Sport psychology college
                                  Sport psychology
course                                    Experience


---------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


     Visit your group "ksurfschool" on the web.

     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.


---------------------------------

--- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, jakob Thegerström <jakobjth@y...> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> The ansver may be a concave board. More and more of
> the new boards got a lot of concave in the design. I
> recently bought one myself and had to adapt my riding
> tech to it:
>
> 1 - you don't have to edge as much as with a
> "conventional" flat board, so you can have lower board
> angle and still going upwind. It increases the low end
> of kitesurfing and also upwind capabilities.
>
> 2 - Due to the concave shape you can use shorter fins
> on these boards and thus it increases the speed (my
> concave board got 3cm fins, on my "normal" flat boards
> I use 5cm fins...) Despite shorter fins the concave
> bord got better grip, upwind and general
> performance...
>
> Optimal kite angle for going upwind depends a lot on
> the kite and wind condition. 45-50 deg is a good bet
> for optimal angle with most kites. If you put the kite
> too low it normally pulls you downwind but the higher
> AR of the kite the lower you can have it. With the
> flysurfer speed (extremely high AR) many people advise
> to fly it low in the window...
>
> /Jakob
......................Jakob:  You may have something there.   I remember looking
at the board
and saw "Jaime Pro" with a lot of busy graphics, but did not see the brand.  
His kite is an
06 North Rhino.  It was just so unusual that this particualr person was so much
faster.

He may also simply be able to hold more kite than the rest of us.   I can fly
both high and
low and sometimes like to scare myself with a directional on a beam reach with
the kite
right down on the deck.




> --- George Sarris <jakefarley2000@y...> skrev:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> I would think that the faster your board speed, the
> harder it would be to go upwind.  It's the same
> principle as in sailing - to go faster you have to
> bear off the wind.  If you go slower, you can point
> higher upwind, if you have sufficient wind to stay on
> a plane.  Also, the higher aspect ratio kites seem to
> go upwind better.  I personally prefer the "high mode"
> at 10 o'clock to go upwind as it is far more relaxing
> as long as you are not overpowered and can keep an
> edge.
>
> George
>

................I generally agree with your George, but this guy hauls ass
upwind seemingly as
easily as those who use the traditional method of high-and-slow.   Maybe he
takes longer
tacks and along with the speed get's there in about the same time?!  Don't
know...   I'll
watch him closer next time because there's something he does I'd like to bottle
for myself.

Cheers all.


Jim

I'm goona bug the hell outta this 'getting upwind' stuff..

We all know that: "You end up where you are looking."   Whether it's riding a
horse, MTB,
surfboard..almost 'whatever': keep your head up and look where you want to go.
By
extension, your shoulders and torso follow your head.  ...but on a kiteboard
your feet/legs
can take a couple of positions.

I have seen people with their feet 'duck' (somewhat square on the board)
twisting at the
waist but mostly vertical not leaning forward (god forbid) or back.  The other
stance is the
natural stance you'd have on a 3-strap directional - where the rear leg is bent
and
somewhat tucked under your butt and the forward leg is kept quite straight and
your torso
leans back.

Which seems to work better for you - when/why?


jim

Lots going on in Miami in the next few days including:

-  A party tomorrow night with Champion Kiteboarder Susi Mai and photos from
the Bahamas Crossing.

-  A first ever Cabrinha, Neil Pryde, JP warehouse sale with incredible low
prices this Saturday.

More about both events at:

http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=73

Lots going on in Miami in the next few days including:

-  A party tomorrow night with Champion Kiteboarder Susi Mai and photos from
the Bahamas Crossing.

-  A first ever Cabrinha, Neil Pryde, JP warehouse sale with incredible low
prices this Saturday.

More about both events at:

http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=73

Just some thought for the end of 2005.

In 1998 a large number of kitesurfing pioneers started learning the
sport and many have argued that was the year kitesurfing "really started".

Now it is somewhat 7 years old.  Some info:

-   The original patent has expired
-   The new flat inflatable kite is getting more popular
-   Foils have been defeated
-   Arc is a bit weak
-   Kiteski (water) is gone
-   Kiteship or kiteboat is still limited and somewhat disappointing
-   A new innovation for kiteship or kiteboat is needed to make it more
popular
-   Kitesnowboarding and kiteskiing is even more popular than
kitesurfing in colder climate
-   2,320,000 sites found on Google for "kitesurfing" (only 1,220,000
for "kiteboarding")
-   3 top kitesurfing sites on Google: http://kitesurfing.com (Don's
site?), http://kitesurfingschool.org (Opensource kitesurfing site) and
http://kitesurfing.org (British Kitesurfing Association)

Hung.

Hi!

I can't really agree on all these conclusions.

-   Foils have been defeated

I think that thanks a lot to the amazing developpment
of flat foils and especially the flysurfer kites, tube
manufacturers "had" to make a flat kite (more
accessible and safer, not more performance as I've
understand it).

The fs speed foil still got the best L/D ratio... I
think it's just a matter of time before they take the
speed record on first snow (I think they already have
it with 108km/h) and when on water as soon as they
find a good enough rider for this purpose...

For winter use foils are by far the first choice for
serious snowkiting. This is mainly due to the ease of
handling on ground. (Arcs and tubes are simply not
convenient for launching & landing on snow + the mess
of pumping up a LEI with freezing fingers).


-   Arc is a bit weak

The arc concept doesn't seam to be fully developped. I
think this is due to the small size of the peterlynn
company and also to an exclusive license in the
technology that doesn't push for R&D. (what would have
happened to the tubes if we only had wipika as
exclusive producer?!?) Although the arc kites are bad
in low winds they are superior to traditional C kites
in the upper wind ranges, and in gusty wind
conditions. If you read the last "developpment" on
arcusers you will also see that there seam to be a lot
of possibilities to increase low end on these kites.



well if you want to convince me of the opposite you
have to give me arguments ;)

cheers
/Jakob



In 1998 a large number of kitesurfing pioneers started
learning the
sport and many have argued that was the year
kitesurfing "really started".

Now it is somewhat 7 years old.  Some info:

-   The original patent has expired
-   The new flat inflatable kite is getting more
popular
-   Foils have been defeated
-   Arc is a bit weak
-   Kiteski (water) is gone
-   Kiteship or kiteboat is still limited and somewhat
disappointing
-   A new innovation for kiteship or kiteboat is
needed to make it more
popular
-   Kitesnowboarding and kiteskiing is even more
popular than
kitesurfing in colder climate
-   2,320,000 sites found on Google for "kitesurfing"
(only 1,220,000
for "kiteboarding")
-   3 top kitesurfing sites on Google:
http://kitesurfing.com (Don's
site?), http://kitesurfingschool.org (Opensource
kitesurfing site) and
http://kitesurfing.org (British Kitesurfing
Association)

Hung.




If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
answers
to the most frequently asked questions.

To unsubscribe, please send an email to
ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
To subscribe, please send an email to
ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com




---------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


     Visit your group "ksurfschool" on the web.

     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.


---------------------------------

I'm going on vacation in the Bahamas in Feb. and want to take kitesurf
lessons.  Can someone recommend a good school and instructor?

I only have a couple days and want to get the most out of it.

Thanks

Winter is easing on, the holidays are past and frontal winds should be
coming.  Lots of events are coming to be sure.  More about that and other
matters appear at the FKA, Inc. site including:

- PRESERVE ACCESS at Tiger Tail Park, Marco Island, FL
This easily accessible, traditional shoreside west wind launch is under
threat of closure.

- JUPITER KITE INVASION RETURNS!!!
This excellent competition comes on line within three weeks!

- TAMPA BAY KITEMASTERS RACE
This first ever Downwinder and Boarder Cross Competition in Tampa Bay!
The competition is to come off between February 3rd through February 19th,
2006.

- Winter Winds in Florida
An area guide to historic winds in some parts of Florida and what to look
for in wx planning and monitoring for sessions.

- Susi Mai, Damian Leroy and Ty's Pole as a fast track to better
riding/tricks?!
Great stuff all around, check it out!

- WINTER WINDS - When To Ride?
A practical set of ideas to plan when to ride to try to catch those clean
frontal winds when they turn on in your area and hopefully avoid annoying
squall lines.  The ones that sink boats, loft riders, etc..

and a great deal more at:
http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=73


- A serious update on Hobie Beach
Not looking good guys for this traditional SW to W wind launch. It seems we
are closing off our west wind options currently.
more at:  http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=67


AND ...

Do you have news about how riding has been, upcoming or past events, great
sessions, guys who are really ripping, access concerns, ideas, questions ...

Tell us here, at http://fksa.org/


FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi

http://fksa.org/
http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131

After the successful first large scale kite demonstration event last
year, Kitesurfingschool.org (VL Kites) is again invited by the National
Capital Commission to provide another kiteskiing/kitesnowboarding
demonstration event for 2006 Winterlude (Feb 11 and 12, 2006) at Dow's
lake, the heart of the world's longest skating ring.

This year Winterlude is expected to attract around 700,000 spectators
mostly from Canada, Northern US and Europe.

Again, we are looking for sponsoring kite manufacturers to provide kites
for the riders. Last year event was sponsored by Best and Kiteloose and
for this year we hope to get more sponsors. Please contact me directly
at kite@... <mailto:kite@...> (kite at netcom dot ca) if you
want to sponsor the event.

P.S., Go to http://kitesurfingschool.org/Winterlude/Winterlude.htm or
http://kitesurfingschool.org/Winterlude/Winterlude2.htm to view the last
year event and photos of some "real" Best and Kiteloose kites on snow.

Hung.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Friends,

We are programing to organise a KiteFair in JULY 06 at Kitesurfbeach Turkey.We
invite all the manufacturers and international kitemags for free of charge.(no
fair charges) Pls contact us at info@...

For all the Kiteboarders around the globe,There will be demos for 06 and 07
kites and boards(new bows,foil and c kites),(new board designs) ,longdistance
and freestyle races.24 hrs of partying.

Early reservation will have up to % 30 off for the accomodation prices.
Best Regards.Husnu Baylav.


www.kitesurbeach.com
info@...

Sponsored by
EuroKite MailGroup just click kitesurf-eu-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and send an
empty mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello

I'm selling a Cabrinha Auto Pilot Directional 5 Fin Board NEW. 6'6
version of the board, and im selling it on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&rd=1&item=7210798315&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Will post anywhere in the world, and I WONT make anything on delivery.

Cheers

Hello all, I am new to this group and have been riding for about 2-3
months now.  My question is this:  I saw that a vote had been made
in the polls for which kite was the best 2002 kite and frankly I am
baffled that only one person voted for the 2002 Slingshot Fuel.
These kites were made to withstand major abuse and you can tell by
just looking at the material.  2002 Slingy Fuels are the only kite I
really like to ride because they seem to stay stationary better than
any other kite I have flown when at 12 o'clock.  In my opinion, it
really creates a safe learning environment as you are not struggling
to learn how to keep the kite overhead while walking upwind or
getting your feet in the straps.

On another note, have you guys seen the new Slingshot leashes?  Ever
since I started flying my trainer kite about 5 months ago, I was
wondering why leashes did not have quick releases on them.  Yes, if
you throw the bar or pull the plug on your control bar it SHOULD
depower your kite but if your kite begins looping and pulling you
toward an obstacle or your lines are tied up with another kiters,
you don't have that luxury...now with the new Slingy leash, you can
also pull your leash QR and dump the kite if you are in real
trouble...GREAT advancement in kiting safety IMO!!!

Hope to chat with you all real soon!

Happy kiting,

Toby (St. Petersburg, FL)

SS dealer then Toby?

Or just wildly enthousiastic about it?

Mark


> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com] Namens Toby Wilson
> Verzonden: dinsdag 31 januari 2006 18:36
> Aan: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: [ksurfschool] Best 2002 kites...
>
> Hello all, I am new to this group and have been riding for
> about 2-3 months now.  My question is this:  I saw that a
> vote had been made in the polls for which kite was the best
> 2002 kite and frankly I am baffled that only one person voted
> for the 2002 Slingshot Fuel.
> These kites were made to withstand major abuse and you can
> tell by just looking at the material.  2002 Slingy Fuels are
> the only kite I really like to ride because they seem to stay
> stationary better than any other kite I have flown when at 12
> o'clock.  In my opinion, it really creates a safe learning
> environment as you are not struggling to learn how to keep
> the kite overhead while walking upwind or getting your feet
> in the straps.
>
> On another note, have you guys seen the new Slingshot
> leashes?  Ever since I started flying my trainer kite about 5
> months ago, I was wondering why leashes did not have quick
> releases on them.  Yes, if you throw the bar or pull the plug
> on your control bar it SHOULD depower your kite but if your
> kite begins looping and pulling you toward an obstacle or
> your lines are tied up with another kiters, you don't have
> that luxury...now with the new Slingy leash, you can also
> pull your leash QR and dump the kite if you are in real
> trouble...GREAT advancement in kiting safety IMO!!!
>
> Hope to chat with you all real soon!
>
> Happy kiting,
>
> Toby (St. Petersburg, FL)
>
>
>
>
>
> If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers to
> the most frequently asked questions.
>
> To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> To subscribe, please send an email to
> ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

It is great to have all these cold front winds to play with.  Who would have
thought those smaller  kites would come in so handy.  Here are some of the
developments on the FKSA.org website:

- JUPITER KITEBOARDING INVASION - YEAR III
The photos are in and the FIRST (of a few) articles is up.  Waves and wind,
life is good, dial in to see just how good.

- TAMPA KITEBOARD MASTERS
This is the first west coast event in over four years but it is a good one.
Part I, the Boardercross was completed last weekend in strong winds.  Lots
of interesting images came out of it and appear in a couple of articles.

BE SURE to checkout the great action video clips from the Jupiter and Tampa
events at:  http://kiteflix.com/  Nobody does it better than George, well
maybe James Bond, but he uses a juried foil!?


- MIAMI BOARDERCROSS COMPETITION
Is scheduled for TOMORROW!  This may even become a regular event from what
Neil tells me.  Tune in and see what is going on.

- History of Safety in Kiteboarding and tips on Florida Riding
Ryan of ASNEWS.NET interviews yours truly in Podcast # 19 about the history
of safety in kiteboarding, why I bother with this stuff and some comments
about riding around Florida

- AERIAL ASSAULT
The latest and greatest from the video gnomes of Kiteflix.com.  George has
out done himself with the talents of Dimitri going off on the water and in
his sons electric toy jeep on impressive road trips.  Stay tuned and
illustrated review is in the works.  Buy your copy at:  http://kiteflix.com/

- Islamorada Invitational
NOT for the Fifth year, sad to say unless ...

- Winter Riding Conditions in Florida
Thinking about a trip to Florida or to a new launch in the state?  Be sure
to stop by here and check things out.

and a great deal more at:
http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=73

AND ...

- Watersboards IS LOOKING for team riders
Nice boards, check 'em out and see what Lloyd has to say
and more at:
http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=67

AND ...

Thinking about a trip to the Bahamas?
Talk to AJ and the gang, the guys that live, work and ride there at ...
http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=98

AND ...

Tired of reefs, need more vegetables in your diving diet?
Checkout the underwater kelp forests of Catalina Island, California in Off
Topic Extreme ..
http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=38



Do you have news about how riding has been, upcoming or past events, great
sessions, guys who are really ripping, access concerns, ideas, questions ...

Tell us here, at http://fksa.org/


FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi

http://fksa.org/
http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131

Following the success of the 2005 Winterlude Kite Demonstration event,
the school Kitesurfingschool.org Ottawa (VL Kites) and the NCC again
teamed up to organize a kite demonstration event for Winterlude 2006 on
Feb 11 and 12.  Again, this is the world first large scale winter kite
demonstration event for a very large number of non-kiter audiences,
fully insured with $2,000,000 public liability insurance.  Due to the
large number of surrounding audiences, only instructors or riders with
more than 3-year experiences were invited to ride in the event.

The main objectives of the event are to:

    1.      Show the northern climate way of life
    2.      Promote kiting to a very large group of non-kiters (650,000+)
    3.      Make kiting a legitimate and official sport.

The event was fully supported by the kite manufacturers and the kite
magazines.

Full report and lots of photos at
http://kitesurfingschool.org/Winterlude2006/Winterlude.htm

Hung.

Hi all I'm looking to buy a new kite. I'm looking at the new bow style
kites but are they really worth the extra money? I can get a new 2005
naish V4 16m half the price of one of the new bow kites. I want to use
my kites for flat water as well as wave riding.

I have the following:

2003 naish Aero2 12m
2003 155mm naish twin tip
2005 140mm Cyclone twin tip

Thanks

Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple weeks on snow, my response
is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all flat LEIs are somewhat
similar).

So far, there are almost no negative things about the flat LEI kite I used.

The positive things are:
     - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever DEpower.  I've never had to
use the safety leash and wonder whether you need it.  There was a time I
crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the kite lost control and shot
across the wind window.  I was not dragged around at all for that.
     - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.  You just let go off the
bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at the window edge waiting
for relaunch.  When you relaunch, it goes up slowly and not dragging you
around like foil.
     - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m feels like a 8m/10m combo
(or even a 7m/11m combo).  Two kite quiver is now possible.  For me
probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.

Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.  The condition have
never been ideal so I did not have a chance to "take it to the limit";
however, I would think its "take it to the limit" jumping and hang time
performance would be better if not the same as the traditional LEIs.

I will know more about it on water in spring.

Hung.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
read forums regarding the kite inverting.  Supposedly
after that happens, there is little control in
depowering.  I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by late
spring if the prices come down to what I would
consider reasonable.  The prices for a Cabrinha Xbow
16m are around $1700 complete.  I would consider
purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.

George

--- hungvu2000@... wrote:

> Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple weeks
> on snow, my response
> is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all flat
> LEIs are somewhat
> similar).
>
> So far, there are almost no negative things about
> the flat LEI kite I used.
>
> The positive things are:
>     - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
> DEpower.  I've never had to
> use the safety leash and wonder whether you need it.
>  There was a time I
> crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the kite
> lost control and shot
> across the wind window.  I was not dragged around at
> all for that.
>     - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.  You
> just let go off the
> bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at the
> window edge waiting
> for relaunch.  When you relaunch, it goes up slowly
> and not dragging you
> around like foil.
>     - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m feels
> like a 8m/10m combo
> (or even a 7m/11m combo).  Two kite quiver is now
> possible.  For me
> probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
>
> Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
> The condition have
> never been ideal so I did not have a chance to "take
> it to the limit";
> however, I would think its "take it to the limit"
> jumping and hang time
> performance would be better if not the same as the
> traditional LEIs.
>
> I will know more about it on water in spring.
>
> Hung.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

George,

Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to their flatness.  The
flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert.  I think that all future
flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this problem.

Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the "sled boosting" effect
as described in
http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
(heavy duty reading)

Hung.

George Sarris wrote:

>Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
>read forums regarding the kite inverting.  Supposedly
>after that happens, there is little control in
>depowering.  I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by late
>spring if the prices come down to what I would
>consider reasonable.  The prices for a Cabrinha Xbow
>16m are around $1700 complete.  I would consider
>purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
>
>George
>
>--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
>
> > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple weeks
> > on snow, my response
> > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all flat
> > LEIs are somewhat
> > similar).
> >
> > So far, there are almost no negative things about
> > the flat LEI kite I used.
> >
> > The positive things are:
> >     - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
> > DEpower.  I've never had to
> > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need it.
> >  There was a time I
> > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the kite
> > lost control and shot
> > across the wind window.  I was not dragged around at
> > all for that.
> >     - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.  You
> > just let go off the
> > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at the
> > window edge waiting
> > for relaunch.  When you relaunch, it goes up slowly
> > and not dragging you
> > around like foil.
> >     - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m feels
> > like a 8m/10m combo
> > (or even a 7m/11m combo).  Two kite quiver is now
> > possible.  For me
> > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
> >
> > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
> > The condition have
> > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to "take
> > it to the limit";
> > however, I would think its "take it to the limit"
> > jumping and hang time
> > performance would be better if not the same as the
> > traditional LEIs.
> >
> > I will know more about it on water in spring.
> >
> > Hung.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
>http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
>to the most frequently asked questions.
>
>To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
>Sport fun
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfi\
ng&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>
> Fun
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3\
&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>
> Kitesurfing
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesur\
fing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>    *  Visit your group "ksurfschool
>      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>" on the web.
>
>    *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>    *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
>      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>
>
>

Hung,
Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a
few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the
leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil?  I've
never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've not
read much about foils.  In rating foils versus bow
kites, which would your recommend?  I may try a foil
if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer versus
Cabrinha Xbow).
Thanks,
George

--- hungvu2000@... wrote:

> George,
>
> Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to
> their flatness.  The
> flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert.  I
> think that all future
> flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this
> problem.
>
> Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the
> "sled boosting" effect
> as described in
>
http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
>
> (heavy duty reading)
>
> Hung.
>
> George Sarris wrote:
>
> >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
> >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
> Supposedly
> >after that happens, there is little control in
> >depowering.  I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by
> late
> >spring if the prices come down to what I would
> >consider reasonable.  The prices for a Cabrinha
> Xbow
> >16m are around $1700 complete.  I would consider
> >purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
> >
> >George
> >
> >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> >
> > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple
> weeks
> > > on snow, my response
> > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all
> flat
> > > LEIs are somewhat
> > > similar).
> > >
> > > So far, there are almost no negative things
> about
> > > the flat LEI kite I used.
> > >
> > > The positive things are:
> > >     - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
> > > DEpower.  I've never had to
> > > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need
> it.
> > >  There was a time I
> > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the
> kite
> > > lost control and shot
> > > across the wind window.  I was not dragged
> around at
> > > all for that.
> > >     - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
> You
> > > just let go off the
> > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at
> the
> > > window edge waiting
> > > for relaunch.  When you relaunch, it goes up
> slowly
> > > and not dragging you
> > > around like foil.
> > >     - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
> feels
> > > like a 8m/10m combo
> > > (or even a 7m/11m combo).  Two kite quiver is
> now
> > > possible.  For me
> > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
> > >
> > > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
> > > The condition have
> > > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to
> "take
> > > it to the limit";
> > > however, I would think its "take it to the
> limit"
> > > jumping and hang time
> > > performance would be better if not the same as
> the
> > > traditional LEIs.
> > >
> > > I will know more about it on water in spring.
> > >
> > > Hung.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> answers
> >to the most frequently asked questions.
> >
> >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >To subscribe, please send an email to
> ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >SPONSORED LINKS
> >Sport fun
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfi\
ng&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>
>
> > Fun
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3\
&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>
>
> > Kitesurfing
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesur\
fing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >    *  Visit your group "ksurfschool
> >      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>"
> on the web.
> >
> >    *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> >       ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
>
<mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> >    *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service
> >      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> >
> >
> >
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

But wouldn't that make it like the Seasmik that we had few years ago?

I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future kites should be
(both for water and snow).

We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken loop is the safety
leash" concept a few years back and now the flat LEIs seems to deliver
it alright without any (or much) compromise.

I was a long supporter of foils and still am in some respects but the
new flat LEIs really impressed me.

Some of them have the invert problem (being too flat) but most of them
(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this completely by being
less flat or a firmer LE.

P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong wind), I attached the
chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite to launch it at the
edge of the wind window.   I went back to my snowboard and  casually
removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and attached it to my
harness.  I then sit down, put the snowboard binding on and slowly
brought the kite up and kited.  This is pretty amazing!

Hung.

George Sarris wrote:

>Hung,
>Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a
>few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the
>leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil?  I've
>never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've not
>read much about foils.  In rating foils versus bow
>kites, which would your recommend?  I may try a foil
>if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer versus
>Cabrinha Xbow).
>Thanks,
>George
>
>--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
>
> > George,
> >
> > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to
> > their flatness.  The
> > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert.  I
> > think that all future
> > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this
> > problem.
> >
> > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the
> > "sled boosting" effect
> > as described in
> >
>http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
> >
> > (heavy duty reading)
> >
> > Hung.
> >
> > George Sarris wrote:
> >
> > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
> > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
> > Supposedly
> > >after that happens, there is little control in
> > >depowering.  I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by
> > late
> > >spring if the prices come down to what I would
> > >consider reasonable.  The prices for a Cabrinha
> > Xbow
> > >16m are around $1700 complete.  I would consider
> > >purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
> > >
> > >George
> > >
> > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> > >
> > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple
> > weeks
> > > > on snow, my response
> > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all
> > flat
> > > > LEIs are somewhat
> > > > similar).
> > > >
> > > > So far, there are almost no negative things
> > about
> > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
> > > >
> > > > The positive things are:
> > > >     - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
> > > > DEpower.  I've never had to
> > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need
> > it.
> > > >  There was a time I
> > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the
> > kite
> > > > lost control and shot
> > > > across the wind window.  I was not dragged
> > around at
> > > > all for that.
> > > >     - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
> > You
> > > > just let go off the
> > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at
> > the
> > > > window edge waiting
> > > > for relaunch.  When you relaunch, it goes up
> > slowly
> > > > and not dragging you
> > > > around like foil.
> > > >     - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
> > feels
> > > > like a 8m/10m combo
> > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo).  Two kite quiver is
> > now
> > > > possible.  For me
> > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
> > > >
> > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
> > > > The condition have
> > > > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to
> > "take
> > > > it to the limit";
> > > > however, I would think its "take it to the
> > limit"
> > > > jumping and hang time
> > > > performance would be better if not the same as
> > the
> > > > traditional LEIs.
> > > >
> > > > I will know more about it on water in spring.
> > > >
> > > > Hung.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> > answers
> > >to the most frequently asked questions.
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >To subscribe, please send an email to
> > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >SPONSORED LINKS
> > >Sport fun
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfi\
ng&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfi\
ng&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>>
> >
> > >      Fun
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3\
&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3\
&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>>
> >
> > >      Kitesurfing
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesur\
fing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesur\
fing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >    *  Visit your group "ksurfschool
> > >      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>"
> > on the web.
> > >
> > >    *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > email to:
> > >       ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> >
><mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >    *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > >      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
>http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
>to the most frequently asked questions.
>
>To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
>Sport fun
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfi\
ng&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>
> Fun
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3\
&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>
> Kitesurfing
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesur\
fing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>    *  Visit your group "ksurfschool
>      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>" on the web.
>
>    *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>    *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
>      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung, could you point me to a history
of different kite design and performance. Could you also give a few examples of
the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar

hungvu2000@... wrote:  But wouldn't that make it like the Seasmik that we
had few years ago?

I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future kites should be
(both for water and snow).

We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken loop is the safety
leash" concept a few years back and now the flat LEIs seems to deliver
it alright without any (or much) compromise.

I was a long supporter of foils and still am in some respects but the
new flat LEIs really impressed me.

Some of them have the invert problem (being too flat) but most of them
(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this completely by being
less flat or a firmer LE.

P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong wind), I attached the
chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite to launch it at the
edge of the wind window. I went back to my snowboard and casually
removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and attached it to my
harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding on and slowly
brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty amazing!

Hung.

George Sarris wrote:

>Hung,
>Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a
>few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the
>leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil? I've
>never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've not
>read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
>kites, which would your recommend? I may try a foil
>if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer versus
>Cabrinha Xbow).
>Thanks,
>George
>
>--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
>
> > George,
> >
> > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to
> > their flatness. The
> > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert. I
> > think that all future
> > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this
> > problem.
> >
> > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the
> > "sled boosting" effect
> > as described in
> >
>http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
> >
> > (heavy duty reading)
> >
> > Hung.
> >
> > George Sarris wrote:
> >
> > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
> > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
> > Supposedly
> > >after that happens, there is little control in
> > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by
> > late
> > >spring if the prices come down to what I would
> > >consider reasonable. The prices for a Cabrinha
> > Xbow
> > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would consider
> > >purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
> > >
> > >George
> > >
> > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> > >
> > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple
> > weeks
> > > > on snow, my response
> > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all
> > flat
> > > > LEIs are somewhat
> > > > similar).
> > > >
> > > > So far, there are almost no negative things
> > about
> > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
> > > >
> > > > The positive things are:
> > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
> > > > DEpower. I've never had to
> > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need
> > it.
> > > > There was a time I
> > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the
> > kite
> > > > lost control and shot
> > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
> > around at
> > > > all for that.
> > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
> > You
> > > > just let go off the
> > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at
> > the
> > > > window edge waiting
> > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes up
> > slowly
> > > > and not dragging you
> > > > around like foil.
> > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
> > feels
> > > > like a 8m/10m combo
> > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver is
> > now
> > > > possible. For me
> > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
> > > >
> > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
> > > > The condition have
> > > > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to
> > "take
> > > > it to the limit";
> > > > however, I would think its "take it to the
> > limit"
> > > > jumping and hang time
> > > > performance would be better if not the same as
> > the
> > > > traditional LEIs.
> > > >
> > > > I will know more about it on water in spring.
> > > >
> > > > Hung.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> > answers
> > >to the most frequently asked questions.
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >To subscribe, please send an email to
> > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >SPONSORED LINKS
> > >Sport fun
> >
> >>>
> >
> > > Fun
> >
> >>>
> >
> > > Kitesurfing
> >
> >>>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
> > > "
> > on the web.
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > email to:
> > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> >
>
> > >
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > > .
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
>http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
>to the most frequently asked questions.
>
>To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
>Sport fun
>
> Fun
>
> Kitesurfing
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "ksurfschool
> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> .
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
to the most frequently asked questions.

To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com

Yahoo! Groups Links










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ishtar,

The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use
.  Also here is a very brief summary of kite designs:
     - Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to relaunch, stable, low
performance, non-depowerable
     - Kiteski Kites: High performance, cumbersome to relaunch but
reliable, non-depowerable
     - Closed cell foil: High performance, non depowerable, easy to relaunch
     - Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar pressure, depowerable
     - 4 line inflatable: High performance, depowerable, light bar pressure
     - Arc: High performance, depowerable, light bar pressure
     - Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100% depowerable, light bar
pressure, very easy to relaunch

Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow.  Second generation: Waroo,
Sonic, etc.

Hung.

ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:

>As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung, could you point me to a history
>of different kite design and performance. Could you also give a few examples of
>the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
>
>hungvu2000@... wrote:  But wouldn't that make it like the Seasmik that
we
>had few years ago?
>
>I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future kites should be
>(both for water and snow).
>
>We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken loop is the safety
>leash" concept a few years back and now the flat LEIs seems to deliver
>it alright without any (or much) compromise.
>
>I was a long supporter of foils and still am in some respects but the
>new flat LEIs really impressed me.
>
>Some of them have the invert problem (being too flat) but most of them
>(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this completely by being
>less flat or a firmer LE.
>
>P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong wind), I attached the
>chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite to launch it at the
>edge of the wind window. I went back to my snowboard and casually
>removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and attached it to my
>harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding on and slowly
>brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty amazing!
>
>Hung.
>
>George Sarris wrote:
>
> >Hung,
> >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a
> >few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the
> >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil? I've
> >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've not
> >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
> >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a foil
> >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer versus
> >Cabrinha Xbow).
> >Thanks,
> >George
> >
> >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> >
> > > George,
> > >
> > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to
> > > their flatness. The
> > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert. I
> > > think that all future
> > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the
> > > "sled boosting" effect
> > > as described in
> > >
> >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
> > >
> > > (heavy duty reading)
> > >
> > > Hung.
> > >
> > > George Sarris wrote:
> > >
> > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
> > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
> > > Supposedly
> > > >after that happens, there is little control in
> > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by
> > > late
> > > >spring if the prices come down to what I would
> > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a Cabrinha
> > > Xbow
> > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would consider
> > > >purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
> > > >
> > > >George
> > > >
> > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple
> > > weeks
> > > > > on snow, my response
> > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all
> > > flat
> > > > > LEIs are somewhat
> > > > > similar).
> > > > >
> > > > > So far, there are almost no negative things
> > > about
> > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
> > > > >
> > > > > The positive things are:
> > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
> > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
> > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need
> > > it.
> > > > > There was a time I
> > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the
> > > kite
> > > > > lost control and shot
> > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
> > > around at
> > > > > all for that.
> > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
> > > You
> > > > > just let go off the
> > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at
> > > the
> > > > > window edge waiting
> > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes up
> > > slowly
> > > > > and not dragging you
> > > > > around like foil.
> > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
> > > feels
> > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
> > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver is
> > > now
> > > > > possible. For me
> > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
> > > > > The condition have
> > > > > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to
> > > "take
> > > > > it to the limit";
> > > > > however, I would think its "take it to the
> > > limit"
> > > > > jumping and hang time
> > > > > performance would be better if not the same as
> > > the
> > > > > traditional LEIs.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will know more about it on water in spring.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hung.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > > removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > > protection around
> > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> > > answers
> > > >to the most frequently asked questions.
> > > >
> > > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >To subscribe, please send an email to
> > > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >SPONSORED LINKS
> > > >Sport fun
> > >
> > >>>
> > >
> > > > Fun
> > >
> > >>>
> > >
> > > > Kitesurfing
> > >
> > >>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > >
> > > > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
> > > > "
> > > on the web.
> > > >
> > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > > email to:
> > > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
> >to the most frequently asked questions.
> >
> >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >SPONSORED LINKS
> >Sport fun
> >
> > Fun
> >
> > Kitesurfing
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
> > " on the web.
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > .
> >
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
>http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
>to the most frequently asked questions.
>
>To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
>http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
>to the most frequently asked questions.
>
>To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
>Sport fun
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfi\
ng&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>
> Fun
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3\
&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>
> Kitesurfing
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesur\
fing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>    *  Visit your group "ksurfschool
>      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>" on the web.
>
>    *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>    *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
>      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>
>
>

Thanks Hung!

   I am really looking forward to the Waroo today!

   Cheers Ishtar

   ps Do you have any xtra large kite harness for sale?

hungvu2000@... wrote:
   Ishtar,

The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use
. Also here is a very brief summary of kite designs:
- Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to relaunch, stable, low
performance, non-depowerable
- Kiteski Kites: High performance, cumbersome to relaunch but
reliable, non-depowerable
- Closed cell foil: High performance, non depowerable, easy to relaunch
- Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar pressure, depowerable
- 4 line inflatable: High performance, depowerable, light bar pressure
- Arc: High performance, depowerable, light bar pressure
- Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100% depowerable, light bar
pressure, very easy to relaunch

Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow. Second generation: Waroo,
Sonic, etc.

Hung.

ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:

>As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung, could you point me to a history
>of different kite design and performance. Could you also give a few examples of
>the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
>
>hungvu2000@... wrote: But wouldn't that make it like the Seasmik that we
>had few years ago?
>
>I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future kites should be
>(both for water and snow).
>
>We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken loop is the safety
>leash" concept a few years back and now the flat LEIs seems to deliver
>it alright without any (or much) compromise.
>
>I was a long supporter of foils and still am in some respects but the
>new flat LEIs really impressed me.
>
>Some of them have the invert problem (being too flat) but most of them
>(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this completely by being
>less flat or a firmer LE.
>
>P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong wind), I attached the
>chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite to launch it at the
>edge of the wind window. I went back to my snowboard and casually
>removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and attached it to my
>harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding on and slowly
>brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty amazing!
>
>Hung.
>
>George Sarris wrote:
>
> >Hung,
> >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a
> >few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the
> >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil? I've
> >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've not
> >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
> >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a foil
> >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer versus
> >Cabrinha Xbow).
> >Thanks,
> >George
> >
> >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> >
> > > George,
> > >
> > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to
> > > their flatness. The
> > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert. I
> > > think that all future
> > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the
> > > "sled boosting" effect
> > > as described in
> > >
> >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
> > >
> > > (heavy duty reading)
> > >
> > > Hung.
> > >
> > > George Sarris wrote:
> > >
> > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
> > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
> > > Supposedly
> > > >after that happens, there is little control in
> > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by
> > > late
> > > >spring if the prices come down to what I would
> > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a Cabrinha
> > > Xbow
> > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would consider
> > > >purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
> > > >
> > > >George
> > > >
> > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple
> > > weeks
> > > > > on snow, my response
> > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all
> > > flat
> > > > > LEIs are somewhat
> > > > > similar).
> > > > >
> > > > > So far, there are almost no negative things
> > > about
> > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
> > > > >
> > > > > The positive things are:
> > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
> > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
> > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need
> > > it.
> > > > > There was a time I
> > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the
> > > kite
> > > > > lost control and shot
> > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
> > > around at
> > > > > all for that.
> > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
> > > You
> > > > > just let go off the
> > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at
> > > the
> > > > > window edge waiting
> > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes up
> > > slowly
> > > > > and not dragging you
> > > > > around like foil.
> > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
> > > feels
> > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
> > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver is
> > > now
> > > > > possible. For me
> > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
> > > > > The condition have
> > > > > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to
> > > "take
> > > > > it to the limit";
> > > > > however, I would think its "take it to the
> > > limit"
> > > > > jumping and hang time
> > > > > performance would be better if not the same as
> > > the
> > > > > traditional LEIs.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will know more about it on water in spring.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hung.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > > removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > > protection around
> > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> > > answers
> > > >to the most frequently asked questions.
> > > >
> > > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >To subscribe, please send an email to
> > > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >SPONSORED LINKS
> > > >Sport fun
> > >
> > >>>
> > >
> > > > Fun
> > >
> > >>>
> > >
> > > > Kitesurfing
> > >
> > >>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > >
> > > > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
> > > > "
> > > on the web.
> > > >
> > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > > email to:
> > > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
> >to the most frequently asked questions.
> >
> >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >SPONSORED LINKS
> >Sport fun
> >
> > Fun
> >
> > Kitesurfing
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
> > " on the web.
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > .
> >
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
>http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
>to the most frequently asked questions.
>
>To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
>http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
>to the most frequently asked questions.
>
>To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
>Sport fun
>
> Fun
>
> Kitesurfing
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "ksurfschool
> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> .
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>
>
>


If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
to the most frequently asked questions.

To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com

Yahoo! Groups Links









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hung,
How much difference is there between the "first
generation" and "second generation" flat LEI kites?
Are the second generation kites less flat such as the
Cabrinha Switchblade versus the Crossbow?  Or is it
bar pressure or something else?

Thanks,
George

--- hungvu2000@... wrote:

> Ishtar,
>
> The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
>
http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use
>
> .  Also here is a very brief summary of kite
> designs:
>     - Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to relaunch,
> stable, low
> performance, non-depowerable
>     - Kiteski Kites: High performance, cumbersome to
> relaunch but
> reliable, non-depowerable
>     - Closed cell foil: High performance, non
> depowerable, easy to relaunch
>     - Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar pressure,
> depowerable
>     - 4 line inflatable: High performance,
> depowerable, light bar pressure
>     - Arc: High performance, depowerable, light bar
> pressure
>     - Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100%
> depowerable, light bar
> pressure, very easy to relaunch
>
> Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow.  Second
> generation: Waroo,
> Sonic, etc.
>
> Hung.
>
> ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:
>
> >As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung,
> could you point me to a history
> >of different kite design and performance. Could you
> also give a few examples of
> >the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
> >
> >hungvu2000@... wrote:  But wouldn't that
> make it like the Seasmik that we
> >had few years ago?
> >
> >I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future
> kites should be
> >(both for water and snow).
> >
> >We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken
> loop is the safety
> >leash" concept a few years back and now the flat
> LEIs seems to deliver
> >it alright without any (or much) compromise.
> >
> >I was a long supporter of foils and still am in
> some respects but the
> >new flat LEIs really impressed me.
> >
> >Some of them have the invert problem (being too
> flat) but most of them
> >(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this
> completely by being
> >less flat or a firmer LE.
> >
> >P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong
> wind), I attached the
> >chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite
> to launch it at the
> >edge of the wind window. I went back to my
> snowboard and casually
> >removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and
> attached it to my
> >harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding
> on and slowly
> >brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty
> amazing!
> >
> >Hung.
> >
> >George Sarris wrote:
> >
> > >Hung,
> > >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by
> adding a
> > >few more bridle lines that attach to points not
> on the
> > >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil?
> I've
> > >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've
> not
> > >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
> > >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a
> foil
> > >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer
> versus
> > >Cabrinha Xbow).
> > >Thanks,
> > >George
> > >
> > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> > >
> > > > George,
> > > >
> > > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems
> due to
> > > > their flatness. The
> > > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert.
> I
> > > > think that all future
> > > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove
> this
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get
> the
> > > > "sled boosting" effect
> > > > as described in
> > > >
> >
>
>http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
> > > >
> > > > (heavy duty reading)
> > > >
> > > > Hung.
> > > >
> > > > George Sarris wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I
> have
> > > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
> > > > Supposedly
> > > > >after that happens, there is little control
> in
> > > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite
> by
> > > > late
> > > > >spring if the prices come down to what I
> would
> > > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a
> Cabrinha
> > > > Xbow
> > > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would
> consider
> > > > >purchasing one if the price was around
> $1200-$1300.
> > > > >
> > > > >George
> > > > >
> > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last
> couple
> > > > weeks
> > > > > > on snow, my response
> > > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that
> all
> > > > flat
> > > > > > LEIs are somewhat
> > > > > > similar).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So far, there are almost no negative
> things
> > > > about
> > > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The positive things are:
> > > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
> > > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
> > > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether
> you need
> > > > it.
> > > > > > There was a time I
> > > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand,
> the
> > > > kite
> > > > > > lost control and shot
> > > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
> > > > around at
> > > > > > all for that.
> > > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
> > > > You
> > > > > > just let go off the
> > > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and
> hover at
> > > > the
> > > > > > window edge waiting
> > > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes
> up
> > > > slowly
> > > > > > and not dragging you
> > > > > > around like foil.
> > > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
> > > > feels
> > > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
> > > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver
> is
> > > > now
> > > > > > possible. For me
> > > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is
> excellent.
>
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I personally have not used the first generartion flat LEI but via direct
talk with others who have tried it, the differences mainly in relaunch
problem, invert problem and somewhat heavier bar pressure.

I would think that most 2nd generation flat LEIs would not have the same
problem as the first and by next year, all flat LEIs (third generation?)
would solve all of the first generation weaknesses...

The flatness of the kite directly influences its behaviour.  The flatter
the LEI, the more it flies like foil.  The less flat the kite the more
it flies like a traditional LEI and therefore more familiar to most kiters.

Hung.

George Sarris wrote:

>Hung,
>How much difference is there between the "first
>generation" and "second generation" flat LEI kites?
>Are the second generation kites less flat such as the
>Cabrinha Switchblade versus the Crossbow?  Or is it
>bar pressure or something else?
>
>Thanks,
>George
>
>--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
>
> > Ishtar,
> >
> > The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
> >
>http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use
> >
> > .  Also here is a very brief summary of kite
> > designs:
> >     - Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to relaunch,
> > stable, low
> > performance, non-depowerable
> >     - Kiteski Kites: High performance, cumbersome to
> > relaunch but
> > reliable, non-depowerable
> >     - Closed cell foil: High performance, non
> > depowerable, easy to relaunch
> >     - Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar pressure,
> > depowerable
> >     - 4 line inflatable: High performance,
> > depowerable, light bar pressure
> >     - Arc: High performance, depowerable, light bar
> > pressure
> >     - Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100%
> > depowerable, light bar
> > pressure, very easy to relaunch
> >
> > Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow.  Second
> > generation: Waroo,
> > Sonic, etc.
> >
> > Hung.
> >
> > ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:
> >
> > >As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung,
> > could you point me to a history
> > >of different kite design and performance. Could you
> > also give a few examples of
> > >the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
> > >
> > >hungvu2000@... wrote:  But wouldn't that
> > make it like the Seasmik that we
> > >had few years ago?
> > >
> > >I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future
> > kites should be
> > >(both for water and snow).
> > >
> > >We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken
> > loop is the safety
> > >leash" concept a few years back and now the flat
> > LEIs seems to deliver
> > >it alright without any (or much) compromise.
> > >
> > >I was a long supporter of foils and still am in
> > some respects but the
> > >new flat LEIs really impressed me.
> > >
> > >Some of them have the invert problem (being too
> > flat) but most of them
> > >(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this
> > completely by being
> > >less flat or a firmer LE.
> > >
> > >P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong
> > wind), I attached the
> > >chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite
> > to launch it at the
> > >edge of the wind window. I went back to my
> > snowboard and casually
> > >removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and
> > attached it to my
> > >harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding
> > on and slowly
> > >brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty
> > amazing!
> > >
> > >Hung.
> > >
> > >George Sarris wrote:
> > >
> > > >Hung,
> > > >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by
> > adding a
> > > >few more bridle lines that attach to points not
> > on the
> > > >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil?
> > I've
> > > >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've
> > not
> > > >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
> > > >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a
> > foil
> > > >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer
> > versus
> > > >Cabrinha Xbow).
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >George
> > > >
> > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > George,
> > > > >
> > > > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems
> > due to
> > > > > their flatness. The
> > > > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert.
> > I
> > > > > think that all future
> > > > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove
> > this
> > > > > problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get
> > the
> > > > > "sled boosting" effect
> > > > > as described in
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
> > > > >
> > > > > (heavy duty reading)
> > > > >
> > > > > Hung.
> > > > >
> > > > > George Sarris wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I
> > have
> > > > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
> > > > > Supposedly
> > > > > >after that happens, there is little control
> > in
> > > > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite
> > by
> > > > > late
> > > > > >spring if the prices come down to what I
> > would
> > > > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a
> > Cabrinha
> > > > > Xbow
> > > > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would
> > consider
> > > > > >purchasing one if the price was around
> > $1200-$1300.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >George
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last
> > couple
> > > > > weeks
> > > > > > > on snow, my response
> > > > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that
> > all
> > > > > flat
> > > > > > > LEIs are somewhat
> > > > > > > similar).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So far, there are almost no negative
> > things
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The positive things are:
> > > > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
> > > > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
> > > > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether
> > you need
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > > There was a time I
> > > > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand,
> > the
> > > > > kite
> > > > > > > lost control and shot
> > > > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
> > > > > around at
> > > > > > > all for that.
> > > > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
> > > > > You
> > > > > > > just let go off the
> > > > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and
> > hover at
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > window edge waiting
> > > > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes
> > up
> > > > > slowly
> > > > > > > and not dragging you
> > > > > > > around like foil.
> > > > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
> > > > > feels
> > > > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
> > > > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver
> > is
> > > > > now
> > > > > > > possible. For me
> > > > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is
> > excellent.
> >
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
>http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
>to the most frequently asked questions.
>
>To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
>Sport fun
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfi\
ng&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>
> Fun
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3\
&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>
> Kitesurfing
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesur\
fing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>    *  Visit your group "ksurfschool
>      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>" on the web.
>
>    *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>    *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
>      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
>
>
>

Thanks Hung.  I appreciate the information.

George

--- hungvu2000@... wrote:

> I personally have not used the first generartion
> flat LEI but via direct
> talk with others who have tried it, the differences
> mainly in relaunch
> problem, invert problem and somewhat heavier bar
> pressure.
>
> I would think that most 2nd generation flat LEIs
> would not have the same
> problem as the first and by next year, all flat LEIs
> (third generation?)
> would solve all of the first generation
> weaknesses...
>
> The flatness of the kite directly influences its
> behaviour.  The flatter
> the LEI, the more it flies like foil.  The less flat
> the kite the more
> it flies like a traditional LEI and therefore more
> familiar to most kiters.
>
> Hung.
>
> George Sarris wrote:
>
> >Hung,
> >How much difference is there between the "first
> >generation" and "second generation" flat LEI kites?
> >Are the second generation kites less flat such as
> the
> >Cabrinha Switchblade versus the Crossbow?  Or is it
> >bar pressure or something else?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >George
> >
> >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> >
> > > Ishtar,
> > >
> > > The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
> > >
>
>http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use
> > >
> > > .  Also here is a very brief summary of kite
> > > designs:
> > >     - Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to
> relaunch,
> > > stable, low
> > > performance, non-depowerable
> > >     - Kiteski Kites: High performance,
> cumbersome to
> > > relaunch but
> > > reliable, non-depowerable
> > >     - Closed cell foil: High performance, non
> > > depowerable, easy to relaunch
> > >     - Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar
> pressure,
> > > depowerable
> > >     - 4 line inflatable: High performance,
> > > depowerable, light bar pressure
> > >     - Arc: High performance, depowerable, light
> bar
> > > pressure
> > >     - Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100%
> > > depowerable, light bar
> > > pressure, very easy to relaunch
> > >
> > > Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow.
> Second
> > > generation: Waroo,
> > > Sonic, etc.
> > >
> > > Hung.
> > >
> > > ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:
> > >
> > > >As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung,
> > > could you point me to a history
> > > >of different kite design and performance. Could
> you
> > > also give a few examples of
> > > >the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
> > > >
> > > >hungvu2000@... wrote:  But wouldn't that
> > > make it like the Seasmik that we
> > > >had few years ago?
> > > >
> > > >I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the
> future
> > > kites should be
> > > >(both for water and snow).
> > > >
> > > >We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the
> "chicken
> > > loop is the safety
> > > >leash" concept a few years back and now the
> flat
> > > LEIs seems to deliver
> > > >it alright without any (or much) compromise.
> > > >
> > > >I was a long supporter of foils and still am in
> > > some respects but the
> > > >new flat LEIs really impressed me.
> > > >
> > > >Some of them have the invert problem (being too
> > > flat) but most of them
> > > >(and all of them eventually) would eliminate
> this
> > > completely by being
> > > >less flat or a firmer LE.
> > > >
> > > >P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong
> > > wind), I attached the
> > > >chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the
> kite
> > > to launch it at the
> > > >edge of the wind window. I went back to my
> > > snowboard and casually
> > > >removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and
> > > attached it to my
> > > >harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard
> binding
> > > on and slowly
> > > >brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty
> > > amazing!
> > > >
> > > >Hung.
> > > >
> > > >George Sarris wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Hung,
> > > > >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by
> > > adding a
> > > > >few more bridle lines that attach to points
> not
> > > on the
> > > > >leading edge of the kite such as that of a
> foil?
> > > I've
> > > > >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but
> I've
> > > not
> > > > >read much about foils. In rating foils versus
> bow
> > > > >kites, which would your recommend? I may try
> a
> > > foil
> > > > >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer
> > > versus
> > > > >Cabrinha Xbow).
> > > > >Thanks,
> > > > >George
> > > > >
> > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > George,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert
> problems
> > > due to
> > > > > > their flatness. The
> > > > > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to
> invert.
> > > I
> > > > > > think that all future
> > > > > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to
> remove
> > > this
> > > > > > problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to
> get
> > > the
> > > > > > "sled boosting" effect
> > > > > > as described in
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (heavy duty reading)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hung.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > George Sarris wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow
> kite) I
> > > have
> > > > > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
> > > > > > Supposedly
> > > > > > >after that happens, there is little
> control
> > > in
> > > > > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow
> kite
> > > by
> > > > > > late
> > > > > > >spring if the prices come down to what I
>
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com