Anyone have any comments about what causes a kite to
jellyfish?  Does it have to do with the leading edge
bladder pressure?  Or are there other factors?

Thanks,
George



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It is usually a design error, although if the bladder is underinflated that
may not help.
That said, on some kite designs with poor balance with regard to the COG and
COB pumping the bladder hard may make it worse!
Which kite is is?

Cya and
Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
www.kitepower.com.au


   _____

From: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of George Sarris
Sent: Thursday, 6 October 2005 7:35 AM
To: KSURFSCHOOL
Subject: [ksurfschool] Kite JellyFishing


Anyone have any comments about what causes a kite to
jellyfish?  Does it have to do with the leading edge
bladder pressure?  Or are there other factors?

Thanks,
George



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The kite jelly fish due to the luffing/stalling (collapsing) of the wing
tips.  When the tips luff/stall (collapse), the kite closes-in and opens
up again when the tips fly properly again.

This problem can be reduced by a couple different ways...

Hung.

George Sarris wrote:

>Anyone have any comments about what causes a kite to
>jellyfish?  Does it have to do with the leading edge
>bladder pressure?  Or are there other factors?
>
>Thanks,
>George
>
>
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I was afraid that it may be design error.  The kite is
a new 2003 Airush Lift Pro 19.5m.  I've flown it
twice.  The first time it was in 13-15kts wind and it
seemed that the leading edge and strut bladders could
use more pressure.  I have a tendency of being very
wary of over-inflating.  The second time I tried a
little more pressure and it seemed to help although
the winds were not as strong as the first, only 11
kts.

Hung said in his reply that it is attributable to the
tips stalling and collapsing and then reopening.
Could it possibly be also that I fly my kites mostly
on the front lines and have very little pressure on
the back lines?  Could flying more on the back lines
reduce this problem?

Thanks,
George
--- Kitepower Sydney <sydney@...> wrote:

> It is usually a design error, although if the
> bladder is underinflated that
> may not help.
> That said, on some kite designs with poor balance
> with regard to the COG and
> COB pumping the bladder hard may make it worse!
> Which kite is is?
>
> Cya and
> Goodwinds
>
> Steve McCormack
> www.kitepower.com.au
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of George Sarris
> Sent: Thursday, 6 October 2005 7:35 AM
> To: KSURFSCHOOL
> Subject: [ksurfschool] Kite JellyFishing
>
>
> Anyone have any comments about what causes a kite to
> jellyfish?  Does it have to do with the leading edge
> bladder pressure?  Or are there other factors?
>
> Thanks,
> George
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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George,
If you fly it more on back lines, it will have a tendecy to enter the stall
quickly, becouse while flying more on the back lines ,kite will be flying
with a higher angle of attack , it will produce more lift but will slow down
its maneuvres becouse of producing more drag...
  Thats it from me ,, :) I can only say my desicion about stall but I dont
think you had such a problemm (becouse you said that you r flying more on
the front lines)
  Murat BRONZ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not familiar with that kite, but I would try flying it equally on both
lines, also inflate it
until you can 'ping' it with your fingernail and it sounds like a very taught
drum, like 8-9PSI if
you have a pump gauge.

The bladder won't blow up because it is contained by the ripstop.  (within
reason).

Tom

Thanks Tom.  I'll try more pressure the next time I'm
out.
George
--- Thomas George DeMille <tdemille@...> wrote:

> I'm not familiar with that kite, but I would try
> flying it equally on both lines, also inflate it
> until you can 'ping' it with your fingernail and it
> sounds like a very taught drum, like 8-9PSI if
> you have a pump gauge.
>
> The bladder won't blow up because it is contained by
> the ripstop.  (within reason).
>
> Tom
>
>
>




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----- Original Message -----
   From: George Sarris
   To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:01 AM
   Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Digest Number 1282


   Thanks Tom.  I'll try more pressure the next time I'm
   out.
   George
   --- Thomas George DeMille <tdemille@...> wrote:

   > I'm not familiar with that kite, but I would try
   > flying it equally on both lines, also inflate it
   > until you can 'ping' it with your fingernail and it
   > sounds like a very taught drum, like 8-9PSI if
   > you have a pump gauge.
   >
   > The bladder won't blow up because it is contained by
   > the ripstop.  (within reason).
   >
   > Tom
   >
   >
   >




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My old 15.5 Naish AR-5 did it when the outside struts were soft.  My 19.4 Airush
Lift does it when the LE is soft. My 12 Slingshot never does it...- others do it
when it the kite stalls and flies backwards (too much back lines in light air) -
I'm sure there are more reasons...
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: George Sarris
   To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:01 AM
   Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Digest Number 1282


   Thanks Tom.  I'll try more pressure the next time I'm
   out.
   George
   --- Thomas George DeMille <tdemille@...> wrote:

   > I'm not familiar with that kite, but I would try
   > flying it equally on both lines, also inflate it
   > until you can 'ping' it with your fingernail and it
   > sounds like a very taught drum, like 8-9PSI if
   > you have a pump gauge.
   >
   > The bladder won't blow up because it is contained by
   > the ripstop.  (within reason).
   >
   > Tom
   >
   >
   >




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It seems like we are heading the right directions with many improvements
in the sport in the couple years (near 100% depowerable kite, larger
wind range, more kites selections, better board designs, better board
constructions, lower equipment cost, better  technique and instruction
availability online and otherwise, etc).

Am I correct seeing it that way or just too optimistic?

Hung.

We hope so... But for these improvements there must be lots of people who
only focus these areas, I dont think this is the way it goes now ,, but I
hope so..

On 10/8/05, Hung Vu <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
>
> It seems like we are heading the right directions with many improvements
> in the sport in the couple years (near 100% depowerable kite, larger
> wind range, more kites selections, better board designs, better board
> constructions, lower equipment cost, better technique and instruction
> availability online and otherwise, etc).
>
> Am I correct seeing it that way or just too optimistic?
>
> Hung.
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with everything except the lower equipment
cost.  If kitesurfing follows the same pattern as
windsurfing, the equipment gets better, more high-tech
and complex, and as a result, more expensive.  Then
the prices level off to what the market will bear.
Somehow I cannot justify spending $1600 US for a new
Cabrinha Crossbow 16m although I'd love to have one.
I will wait a year and see what the market does with
Slingshot putting a bow kite on the market to compete
with the Cabrinha Crossbow.  In the meantime I'll ride
my homemade light wind board with a 2001 Cabrinha
21.5m Black Tip.

Cheers,
George
--- Murat Bronz <muratbronz@...> wrote:

> We hope so... But for these improvements there must
> be lots of people who
> only focus these areas, I dont think this is the way
> it goes now ,, but I
> hope so..
>
> On 10/8/05, Hung Vu <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
> >
> > It seems like we are heading the right directions
> with many improvements
> > in the sport in the couple years (near 100%
> depowerable kite, larger
> > wind range, more kites selections, better board
> designs, better board
> > constructions, lower equipment cost, better
> technique and instruction
> > availability online and otherwise, etc).
> >
> > Am I correct seeing it that way or just too
> optimistic?
> >
> > Hung.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> answers
> > to the most frequently asked questions.
> >
> > To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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> ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>





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George,

And the Crossbow too will go down in price.  For now, check out the
Globerider Sonic. Some future flat LEI kite manufacturers will reduce
the price even further.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with the CURRENT LEIs.
Actually, from the design and theory standpoints, they do have many
advantages...

Hung.

George Sarris wrote:

>I agree with everything except the lower equipment
>cost.  If kitesurfing follows the same pattern as
>windsurfing, the equipment gets better, more high-tech
>and complex, and as a result, more expensive.  Then
>the prices level off to what the market will bear.
>Somehow I cannot justify spending $1600 US for a new
>Cabrinha Crossbow 16m although I'd love to have one.
>I will wait a year and see what the market does with
>Slingshot putting a bow kite on the market to compete
>with the Cabrinha Crossbow.  In the meantime I'll ride
>my homemade light wind board with a 2001 Cabrinha
>21.5m Black Tip.
>
>Cheers,
>George
>--- Murat Bronz <muratbronz@...> wrote:
>
> > We hope so... But for these improvements there must
> > be lots of people who
> > only focus these areas, I dont think this is the way
> > it goes now ,, but I
> > hope so..
> >
> > On 10/8/05, Hung Vu <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > It seems like we are heading the right directions
> > with many improvements
> > > in the sport in the couple years (near 100%
> > depowerable kite, larger
> > > wind range, more kites selections, better board
> > designs, better board
> > > constructions, lower equipment cost, better
> > technique and instruction
> > > availability online and otherwise, etc).
> > >
> > > Am I correct seeing it that way or just too
> > optimistic?
> > >
> > > Hung.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> > answers
> > > to the most frequently asked questions.
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > To subscribe, please send an email to
> > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
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> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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y+course&w5=Sport+nutrition&w6=Kitesurfing&c=6&s=152&.sig=zyWwYENrueFLndmQ0dJD9w\
>
> Sport psychology college
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+college&w1=Sports+fund+ra\
ising&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psycholog\
y+course&w5=Sport+nutrition&w6=Kitesurfing&c=6&s=152&.sig=OCFlb4WXgxRiwS8KC4hOjw\
>
>
>Sport psychology course
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+course&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Sport+nutrition&w6=Kitesurfing&c=6&s=152&.sig=0qH5FQfEKIaQZp03FRIiVQ>
> Sport nutrition
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+nutrition&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=\
Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&\
w5=Sport+nutrition&w6=Kitesurfing&c=6&s=152&.sig=k9VafUbaJr-niA4rCgvibg>
> Kitesurfing
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Spor\
ts+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=S\
port+nutrition&w6=Kitesurfing&c=6&s=152&.sig=rRmblhY6NoTd2h5f9KfeGA>
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>
>

Many people have asked me this questions.

Besides being comfortable IN the water, some other skills may be
beneficial but not essential and the rest can be LEARNED.

Is it correct?

Hung.

Hi Guys,

If u do have time please jpin me in Vietnam for the winter seasom.
Big wind 20 to 25 knots average it could get up to 30,40 knots.  Bring ur
smaillest kite and no need for wetsuit but lot of sun protection
Our kite=windsurf center iis located in Mui Ne Bay @ Saigon Mui Ne Resort
Please check out our webpage
Please let me know if I can further help

Tien Do

www.kiteboarding-vietnam.com
www.windsurfing-vietnam.com

>From: hungvu2000@...
>Reply-To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
>To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Where are we heading?
>Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 05:15:39 -0400
>
>George,
>
>And the Crossbow too will go down in price.  For now, check out the
>Globerider Sonic. Some future flat LEI kite manufacturers will reduce
>the price even further.
>
>On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with the CURRENT LEIs.
>Actually, from the design and theory standpoints, they do have many
>advantages...
>
>Hung.
>
>George Sarris wrote:
>
> >I agree with everything except the lower equipment
> >cost.  If kitesurfing follows the same pattern as
> >windsurfing, the equipment gets better, more high-tech
> >and complex, and as a result, more expensive.  Then
> >the prices level off to what the market will bear.
> >Somehow I cannot justify spending $1600 US for a new
> >Cabrinha Crossbow 16m although I'd love to have one.
> >I will wait a year and see what the market does with
> >Slingshot putting a bow kite on the market to compete
> >with the Cabrinha Crossbow.  In the meantime I'll ride
> >my homemade light wind board with a 2001 Cabrinha
> >21.5m Black Tip.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >George
> >--- Murat Bronz <muratbronz@...> wrote:
> >
> > > We hope so... But for these improvements there must
> > > be lots of people who
> > > only focus these areas, I dont think this is the way
> > > it goes now ,, but I
> > > hope so..
> > >
> > > On 10/8/05, Hung Vu <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It seems like we are heading the right directions
> > > with many improvements
> > > > in the sport in the couple years (near 100%
> > > depowerable kite, larger
> > > > wind range, more kites selections, better board
> > > designs, better board
> > > > constructions, lower equipment cost, better
> > > technique and instruction
> > > > availability online and otherwise, etc).
> > > >
> > > > Am I correct seeing it that way or just too
> > > optimistic?
> > > >
> > > > Hung.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > > > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> > > answers
> > > > to the most frequently asked questions.
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > > To subscribe, please send an email to
> > > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
> >to the most frequently asked questions.
> >
> >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
>ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >SPONSORED LINKS
> >Sports fund raising
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+fund+raising&w1=Sports+fund+raising\
&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+cou\
rse&w5=Sport+nutrition&w6=Kitesurfing&c=6&s=152&.sig=1Kl8DnhZ1aS-AbmIdOCpAg>
> > Sports psychology degree
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+psychology+degree&w1=Sports+fund+ra\
ising&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psycholog\
y+course&w5=Sport+nutrition&w6=Kitesurfing&c=6&s=152&.sig=zyWwYENrueFLndmQ0dJD9w\
>
> > Sport psychology college
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+college&w1=Sports+fund+ra\
ising&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psycholog\
y+course&w5=Sport+nutrition&w6=Kitesurfing&c=6&s=152&.sig=OCFlb4WXgxRiwS8KC4hOjw\
>
> >
> >Sport psychology course
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+course&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Sport+nutrition&w6=Kitesurfing&c=6&s=152&.sig=0qH5FQfEKIaQZp03FRIiVQ>
> > Sport nutrition
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+nutrition&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=\
Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&\
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> > Kitesurfing
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Spor\
ts+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=S\
port+nutrition&w6=Kitesurfing&c=6&s=152&.sig=rRmblhY6NoTd2h5f9KfeGA>
> >
> >
> >
>
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><mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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>Service
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> >

One of my students got on the board and go both ways (for around 25 to
100m) on the second day of lesson.

Now that's a very fast learner!!!

Hung.

I hope everyone is getting more time on the water as fall eases on.  Fewer
hurricanes would be good but we'll just have to deal with it as best we can.

So, what's new?


* MATANZAS HALLOWEEN BLAST!!!
The first great kiteboarding event of  Fall in Florida.

* The GK Sonic

* The JN Kitesports - Prima Donna

* Info on CUMBUCO in BRAZIL

* GOING THE DISTANCE ... Ideas for long kiteboarding runs

***  WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE ON THE FKA SITE???
         (Reply to:  http://www.fksa.org/viewtopic.php?t=989 )

*  800 FOOT LOFTING REVISITED

*  CABRINHA PARTY IN STILTSVILLE!!!

* Hurricane Riding, A Story

ALL at Kite Buzz at:  http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=73


and

We have a new moderator in the SE Florida Forum, Miguel Clavero!  Welcome
aboard Miguel.  We could use some more moderators for the Forums, so if you
would like to join in, please PM ricki.

Some access issues have heated up in various parts of Miami-Dade Country,
details inside

At http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=67


and

The guys in the Bahamas are going off as winds return.  There's talk of
tow-in surfing, island downwinders, a barbaque and more!

At http://www.fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=98


and

Incredible High Wind & Sea Rescue in Australia

In "WAY TO GO" at http://www.fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=92



and in Lessons From the Hardside,

News of a local riderseverely  injured in a bad lofting three years ago.

A severe accident in Mauritius

A lofting caught on video

At http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=81


and

New articles from The Kiteboarder and SBC Kiteboard Magazines

at:  http://fksa.org/index.php?c=26


and a lot more!

Be sure to tell us what you want to see and have fun out there.

FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:  Mark Shinn - Boosting from kitefilm.com
Date:  Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:06:23 +0200
From:  <info@...>
To:  <hungvu2000@...>



The new Trick of the week from www.kitefilm.com is "Mark Shinn - Boosting"

The direct link to the new video is
http://www.kitefilm.com/video/shinn1024.wmv

Check out all our downloads on this address
http://www.kitefilm.com/download.asp


Here's a video of Mark Shinn, filmed in Tenerife August 2005.
Mark is using the Crossbow 12 in around 30 knots wind.
And getting some good jumps and nice waves.
As you can imagine this is from one of our upcoming
films..................................say no more


The video download with a new trick every week is completely free for
everyone.


Tell your friends and let them share the goods as well.

Enjoy

Check out our new kiteboarding T-shirts, cool designs and bright colors.
And we are still looking for distributors in a lot of countries so give us
a hint.

Best Regards
Ronny Basso
www.kitefilm.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks for the link!
really amazing jumps... looks like 20-30m ?!

is it the kite or the rider?

/Jakob

--- hungvu2000@... skrev:


---------------------------------


-------- Original Message --------
Subject:       Mark Shinn - Boosting from kitefilm.com
Date:       Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:06:23 +0200
From:       <info@...>
To:       <hungvu2000@...>



The new Trick of the week from www.kitefilm.com is
"Mark Shinn - Boosting"

The direct link to the new video is
http://www.kitefilm.com/video/shinn1024.wmv

Check out all our downloads on this address
http://www.kitefilm.com/download.asp


Here's a video of Mark Shinn, filmed in Tenerife
August 2005.
Mark is using the Crossbow 12 in around 30 knots wind.
And getting some good jumps and nice waves.
As you can imagine this is from one of our upcoming
films..................................say no more


The video download with a new trick every week is
completely free for
everyone.


Tell your friends and let them share the goods as
well.

Enjoy

Check out our new kiteboarding T-shirts, cool designs
and bright colors.
And we are still looking for distributors in a lot of
countries so give us
a hint.

Best Regards
Ronny Basso
www.kitefilm.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
answers
to the most frequently asked questions.

To unsubscribe, please send an email to
ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
To subscribe, please send an email to
ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com




       SPONSORED LINKS
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fund raising                                    Sports
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Sport psychology college
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course                                    Sport
nutrition
Kitesurfing


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---------------------------------

Now that the Fall winds have filled in; there seem to be two schools of getting
upwind -
not just upwind..but vey high angled tacks.

1.  We have a local woman who looks as if she could climb a building with her
kite because
she goes upwind so very well in a 'High (about 11 o'clock) and slow" mode.

2.  Another local seems to almost kite twice as fast as everyone, cuts a very
high wake -
you'd think he was on a beam reach - but, also get's a very good angle...yet his
kite is
down low: about 40-45deg.

Both use 2005 gear, would be considered advanced intermediates but their styles
are so
different.  Which is technically more efficient?

jim

The second person I mentioned who flys fast and low is an enigma.  Out of a
regular crew
of about eight people, this person comes in a flys in another style. He's easily
20% faster
than most people out.

On a 12M day with gusts the mid-20kts, his kite seems to have a deeper C-shape,
his
board threw a much higher wake...but I was not close enough to him to see what
was
different about his physical stance.

So.. The increased speed assumption about him 'riding the fins' rather than the
edge
perhaps goes out the window because of the high wake..   His board and kites are
both
recent North... and everyone here seems to ride about a 130cm board and uses a
seat
harness, but I'm wondering if foot/body placement could be the clue to his
speed?

When very well powered, have you ever tried a heavy back foot plant with almost
a 'pull
up/negative pressure' on the front foot with the body angled rearward?  ...or is
a low-butt,
near even foot pressure with only a slight reward torso postion better?   I can
ride either
way, but don't seem to be able to measure the difference.

........I thought about a wake-styled board with a lot of rocker making that
wake, but then
the speed would be slower due to the drag, no?  ...thoughts?

Jim

Jim,

The "high mode" is when you want to relax a bit or when way overpowered.

The "low mode" is for cranking therefore the higher speed.

Hung.

ex_cpe wrote:

>
> The second person I mentioned who flys fast and low is an enigma.  Out
> of a regular crew
> of about eight people, this person comes in a flys in another style.
> He's easily 20% faster
> than most people out.
>
> On a 12M day with gusts the mid-20kts, his kite seems to have a deeper
> C-shape, his
> board threw a much higher wake...but I was not close enough to him to
> see what was
> different about his physical stance.
>
> So.. The increased speed assumption about him 'riding the fins' rather
> than the edge
> perhaps goes out the window because of the high wake..   His board and
> kites are both
> recent North... and everyone here seems to ride about a 130cm board
> and uses a seat
> harness, but I'm wondering if foot/body placement could be the clue to
> his speed?
>
> When very well powered, have you ever tried a heavy back foot plant
> with almost a 'pull
> up/negative pressure' on the front foot with the body angled
> rearward?  ...or is a low-butt,
> near even foot pressure with only a slight reward torso postion
> better?   I can ride either
> way, but don't seem to be able to measure the difference.
>
> ........I thought about a wake-styled board with a lot of rocker
> making that wake, but then
> the speed would be slower due to the drag, no?  ...thoughts?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
> to the most frequently asked questions.
>
> To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Sports fund raising
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+fund+raising&w1=Sports+fund+raising&\
w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+cour\
se&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=eLCx4IoGBM3Qau-DGcajsA>
>  Sports psychology degree
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+psychology+degree&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=QUNPM8Okj6FMCJiSt2TYkA>
>  Sport psychology college
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+college&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=cJ6O60rEpspUrqAHiQMllQ>
>
> Sport psychology course
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+course&w1=Sports+fund+rais\
ing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+\
course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=-2DJpY6wcesYaYCrGVN8SQ>
>  Experience
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Experience&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports\
+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Exp\
erience&c=5&s=130&.sig=9M_cFKXKf4ov-fi0eyPM_w>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would think that the faster your board speed, the
harder it would be to go upwind.  It's the same
principle as in sailing - to go faster you have to
bear off the wind.  If you go slower, you can point
higher upwind, if you have sufficient wind to stay on
a plane.  Also, the higher aspect ratio kites seem to
go upwind better.  I personally prefer the "high mode"
at 10 o'clock to go upwind as it is far more relaxing
as long as you are not overpowered and can keep an
edge.

George

--- hungvu2000@... wrote:

> Jim,
>
> The "high mode" is when you want to relax a bit or
> when way overpowered.
>
> The "low mode" is for cranking therefore the higher
> speed.
>
> Hung.
>
> ex_cpe wrote:
>
> >
> > The second person I mentioned who flys fast and
> low is an enigma.  Out
> > of a regular crew
> > of about eight people, this person comes in a flys
> in another style.
> > He's easily 20% faster
> > than most people out.
> >
> > On a 12M day with gusts the mid-20kts, his kite
> seems to have a deeper
> > C-shape, his
> > board threw a much higher wake...but I was not
> close enough to him to
> > see what was
> > different about his physical stance.
> >
> > So.. The increased speed assumption about him
> 'riding the fins' rather
> > than the edge
> > perhaps goes out the window because of the high
> wake..   His board and
> > kites are both
> > recent North... and everyone here seems to ride
> about a 130cm board
> > and uses a seat
> > harness, but I'm wondering if foot/body placement
> could be the clue to
> > his speed?
> >
> > When very well powered, have you ever tried a
> heavy back foot plant
> > with almost a 'pull
> > up/negative pressure' on the front foot with the
> body angled
> > rearward?  ...or is a low-butt,
> > near even foot pressure with only a slight reward
> torso postion
> > better?   I can ride either
> > way, but don't seem to be able to measure the
> difference.
> >
> > ........I thought about a wake-styled board with a
> lot of rocker
> > making that wake, but then
> > the speed would be slower due to the drag, no?
> ...thoughts?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> answers
> > to the most frequently asked questions.
> >
> > To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > To subscribe, please send an email to
> ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Sports fund raising
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+fund+raising&w1=Sports+fund+raising&\
w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+cour\
se&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=eLCx4IoGBM3Qau-DGcajsA>
>
> >  Sports psychology degree
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+psychology+degree&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=QUNPM8Okj6FMCJiSt2TYkA>
>
> >  Sport psychology college
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+college&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=cJ6O60rEpspUrqAHiQMllQ>
>
> >
> > Sport psychology course
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+course&w1=Sports+fund+rais\
ing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+\
course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=-2DJpY6wcesYaYCrGVN8SQ>
>
> >  Experience
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Experience&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports\
+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Exp\
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Hey gang...I'm going to Cuba in December to see a friend get married.  We'll be
near Guardalavaca...does anyone know if there's any kiting around there.  I've
inquired at the resort but they don't allow it on their small beaches.

Tom
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: George Sarris<mailto:jakefarley2000@...>
   To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 6:24 PM
   Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] two of two: Speed..


   I would think that the faster your board speed, the
   harder it would be to go upwind.  It's the same
   principle as in sailing - to go faster you have to
   bear off the wind.  If you go slower, you can point
   higher upwind, if you have sufficient wind to stay on
   a plane.  Also, the higher aspect ratio kites seem to
   go upwind better.  I personally prefer the "high mode"
   at 10 o'clock to go upwind as it is far more relaxing
   as long as you are not overpowered and can keep an
   edge.

   George

   --- hungvu2000@... wrote:

   > Jim,
   >
   > The "high mode" is when you want to relax a bit or
   > when way overpowered.
   >
   > The "low mode" is for cranking therefore the higher
   > speed.
   >
   > Hung.
   >
   > ex_cpe wrote:
   >
   > >
   > > The second person I mentioned who flys fast and
   > low is an enigma.  Out
   > > of a regular crew
   > > of about eight people, this person comes in a flys
   > in another style.
   > > He's easily 20% faster
   > > than most people out.
   > >
   > > On a 12M day with gusts the mid-20kts, his kite
   > seems to have a deeper
   > > C-shape, his
   > > board threw a much higher wake...but I was not
   > close enough to him to
   > > see what was
   > > different about his physical stance.
   > >
   > > So.. The increased speed assumption about him
   > 'riding the fins' rather
   > > than the edge
   > > perhaps goes out the window because of the high
   > wake..   His board and
   > > kites are both
   > > recent North... and everyone here seems to ride
   > about a 130cm board
   > > and uses a seat
   > > harness, but I'm wondering if foot/body placement
   > could be the clue to
   > > his speed?
   > >
   > > When very well powered, have you ever tried a
   > heavy back foot plant
   > > with almost a 'pull
   > > up/negative pressure' on the front foot with the
   > body angled
   > > rearward?  ...or is a low-butt,
   > > near even foot pressure with only a slight reward
   > torso postion
   > > better?   I can ride either
   > > way, but don't seem to be able to measure the
   > difference.
   > >
   > > ........I thought about a wake-styled board with a
   > lot of rocker
   > > making that wake, but then
   > > the speed would be slower due to the drag, no?
   > ...thoughts?
   > >
   > > Jim
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
   > >
http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm<http://www.kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.\
htm> for the
   > answers
   > > to the most frequently asked questions.
   > >
   > > To unsubscribe, please send an email to
   > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
   > > To subscribe, please send an email to
   > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
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   > >
   > >
   > > SPONSORED LINKS
   > > Sports fund raising
   > >
   >
  
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+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Exp\
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jim,

The ansver may be a concave board. More and more of
the new boards got a lot of concave in the design. I
recently bought one myself and had to adapt my riding
tech to it:

1 - you don't have to edge as much as with a
"conventional" flat board, so you can have lower board
angle and still going upwind. It increases the low end
of kitesurfing and also upwind capabilities.

2 - Due to the concave shape you can use shorter fins
on these boards and thus it increases the speed (my
concave board got 3cm fins, on my "normal" flat boards
I use 5cm fins...) Despite shorter fins the concave
bord got better grip, upwind and general
performance...

Optimal kite angle for going upwind depends a lot on
the kite and wind condition. 45-50 deg is a good bet
for optimal angle with most kites. If you put the kite
too low it normally pulls you downwind but the higher
AR of the kite the lower you can have it. With the
flysurfer speed (extremely high AR) many people advise
to fly it low in the window...

/Jakob


--- George Sarris <jakefarley2000@...> skrev:


---------------------------------
I would think that the faster your board speed, the
harder it would be to go upwind.  It's the same
principle as in sailing - to go faster you have to
bear off the wind.  If you go slower, you can point
higher upwind, if you have sufficient wind to stay on
a plane.  Also, the higher aspect ratio kites seem to
go upwind better.  I personally prefer the "high mode"
at 10 o'clock to go upwind as it is far more relaxing
as long as you are not overpowered and can keep an
edge.

George

--- hungvu2000@... wrote:

> Jim,
>
> The "high mode" is when you want to relax a bit or
> when way overpowered.
>
> The "low mode" is for cranking therefore the higher
> speed.
>
> Hung.
>
> ex_cpe wrote:
>
> >
> > The second person I mentioned who flys fast and
> low is an enigma.  Out
> > of a regular crew
> > of about eight people, this person comes in a flys
> in another style.
> > He's easily 20% faster
> > than most people out.
> >
> > On a 12M day with gusts the mid-20kts, his kite
> seems to have a deeper
> > C-shape, his
> > board threw a much higher wake...but I was not
> close enough to him to
> > see what was
> > different about his physical stance.
> >
> > So.. The increased speed assumption about him
> 'riding the fins' rather
> > than the edge
> > perhaps goes out the window because of the high
> wake..   His board and
> > kites are both
> > recent North... and everyone here seems to ride
> about a 130cm board
> > and uses a seat
> > harness, but I'm wondering if foot/body placement
> could be the clue to
> > his speed?
> >
> > When very well powered, have you ever tried a
> heavy back foot plant
> > with almost a 'pull
> > up/negative pressure' on the front foot with the
> body angled
> > rearward?  ...or is a low-butt,
> > near even foot pressure with only a slight reward
> torso postion
> > better?   I can ride either
> > way, but don't seem to be able to measure the
> difference.
> >
> > ........I thought about a wake-styled board with a
> lot of rocker
> > making that wake, but then
> > the speed would be slower due to the drag, no?
> ...thoughts?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
> > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
> answers
> > to the most frequently asked questions.
> >
> > To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > To subscribe, please send an email to
> ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Sports fund raising
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+fund+raising&w1=Sports+fund+raising&\
w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+cour\
se&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=eLCx4IoGBM3Qau-DGcajsA>
>
> >       Sports psychology degree
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+psychology+degree&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=QUNPM8Okj6FMCJiSt2TYkA>
>
> >       Sport psychology college
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+college&w1=Sports+fund+rai\
sing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology\
+course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=cJ6O60rEpspUrqAHiQMllQ>
>
> >
> > Sport psychology course
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+psychology+course&w1=Sports+fund+rais\
ing&w2=Sports+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+\
course&w5=Experience&c=5&s=130&.sig=-2DJpY6wcesYaYCrGVN8SQ>
>
> >       Experience
> >
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Experience&w1=Sports+fund+raising&w2=Sports\
+psychology+degree&w3=Sport+psychology+college&w4=Sport+psychology+course&w5=Exp\
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> >
> >
> >
>
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__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
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If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
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---------------------------------

--- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, jakob Thegerström <jakobjth@y...> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> The ansver may be a concave board. More and more of
> the new boards got a lot of concave in the design. I
> recently bought one myself and had to adapt my riding
> tech to it:
>
> 1 - you don't have to edge as much as with a
> "conventional" flat board, so you can have lower board
> angle and still going upwind. It increases the low end
> of kitesurfing and also upwind capabilities.
>
> 2 - Due to the concave shape you can use shorter fins
> on these boards and thus it increases the speed (my
> concave board got 3cm fins, on my "normal" flat boards
> I use 5cm fins...) Despite shorter fins the concave
> bord got better grip, upwind and general
> performance...
>
> Optimal kite angle for going upwind depends a lot on
> the kite and wind condition. 45-50 deg is a good bet
> for optimal angle with most kites. If you put the kite
> too low it normally pulls you downwind but the higher
> AR of the kite the lower you can have it. With the
> flysurfer speed (extremely high AR) many people advise
> to fly it low in the window...
>
> /Jakob
......................Jakob:  You may have something there.   I remember looking
at the board
and saw "Jaime Pro" with a lot of busy graphics, but did not see the brand.  
His kite is an
06 North Rhino.  It was just so unusual that this particualr person was so much
faster.

He may also simply be able to hold more kite than the rest of us.   I can fly
both high and
low and sometimes like to scare myself with a directional on a beam reach with
the kite
right down on the deck.




> --- George Sarris <jakefarley2000@y...> skrev:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> I would think that the faster your board speed, the
> harder it would be to go upwind.  It's the same
> principle as in sailing - to go faster you have to
> bear off the wind.  If you go slower, you can point
> higher upwind, if you have sufficient wind to stay on
> a plane.  Also, the higher aspect ratio kites seem to
> go upwind better.  I personally prefer the "high mode"
> at 10 o'clock to go upwind as it is far more relaxing
> as long as you are not overpowered and can keep an
> edge.
>
> George
>

................I generally agree with your George, but this guy hauls ass
upwind seemingly as
easily as those who use the traditional method of high-and-slow.   Maybe he
takes longer
tacks and along with the speed get's there in about the same time?!  Don't
know...   I'll
watch him closer next time because there's something he does I'd like to bottle
for myself.

Cheers all.


Jim

I'm goona bug the hell outta this 'getting upwind' stuff..

We all know that: "You end up where you are looking."   Whether it's riding a
horse, MTB,
surfboard..almost 'whatever': keep your head up and look where you want to go.
By
extension, your shoulders and torso follow your head.  ...but on a kiteboard
your feet/legs
can take a couple of positions.

I have seen people with their feet 'duck' (somewhat square on the board)
twisting at the
waist but mostly vertical not leaning forward (god forbid) or back.  The other
stance is the
natural stance you'd have on a 3-strap directional - where the rear leg is bent
and
somewhat tucked under your butt and the forward leg is kept quite straight and
your torso
leans back.

Which seems to work better for you - when/why?


jim

Lots going on in Miami in the next few days including:

-  A party tomorrow night with Champion Kiteboarder Susi Mai and photos from
the Bahamas Crossing.

-  A first ever Cabrinha, Neil Pryde, JP warehouse sale with incredible low
prices this Saturday.

More about both events at:

http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=73

Lots going on in Miami in the next few days including:

-  A party tomorrow night with Champion Kiteboarder Susi Mai and photos from
the Bahamas Crossing.

-  A first ever Cabrinha, Neil Pryde, JP warehouse sale with incredible low
prices this Saturday.

More about both events at:

http://fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=73

Just some thought for the end of 2005.

In 1998 a large number of kitesurfing pioneers started learning the
sport and many have argued that was the year kitesurfing "really started".

Now it is somewhat 7 years old.  Some info:

-   The original patent has expired
-   The new flat inflatable kite is getting more popular
-   Foils have been defeated
-   Arc is a bit weak
-   Kiteski (water) is gone
-   Kiteship or kiteboat is still limited and somewhat disappointing
-   A new innovation for kiteship or kiteboat is needed to make it more
popular
-   Kitesnowboarding and kiteskiing is even more popular than
kitesurfing in colder climate
-   2,320,000 sites found on Google for "kitesurfing" (only 1,220,000
for "kiteboarding")
-   3 top kitesurfing sites on Google: http://kitesurfing.com (Don's
site?), http://kitesurfingschool.org (Opensource kitesurfing site) and
http://kitesurfing.org (British Kitesurfing Association)

Hung.