In a message dated 1/31/01 12:04:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
hungvu@... writes:

<< Doesn't the ARC has a inflation zipper or velcro that you can open to
  let the kite pre-inflate while laying it down trailing edge to the wind
  (like the Jojo Wet or the New Wave)? >>

Yes, it does (Velcro), & I had let it pre-inflate through that opening as
much as it would in the light winds, but when pulling the front lines to
continue inflating, it pulled out from under the sand on one side, & folded
in half.  It probably would work with enough sand, & has the advantage of
easy untwisting of the lines (compared to sanding only one tip), but line
twisting should be unimportant, with solo downwind landings.  Remember how
easy it was with a 2-line sled?  Just sand the tip, unwind the lines, pull a
bit, spin the bar until the lines aren't twisted, & go!

<< It's rather clumsy to attach the board leash to your ankle, it's better
  to have a metal ring attached to you harness >>

Absolutely!!  I've always used a harness-attached boardleash, & that's why I
could attach it after launching the kite (& the reason I commented it would
be much harder with an ankle attachment).

<< and attach a marine
  carabiner (spelling?) to your board leash. >>

I prefer to put the carabiner on the harness, so it doesn't whip around &
chip the board (although I guess it could chip the board if you're carrying
it against that side of your harness).  The new DaKine leashes have a clip on
the end, that's supposed to clip to the D-ring on the included ankle leash,
or on their new harnesses*, but it clips directly to the slot in the end of a
Reactor or standard spreader bar!
*Today, DaKine said the Fusion & Pyro should be available in about 2 weeks.

Mel

In a message dated 1/31/01 12:38:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cglazier@... writes:

<< stability and relaunchability are more important to beginners >>

That's why I think the ARC may be ideal.  I haven't tested the
relaunchability on water yet (although it's MUCH better than an inflatable
sled on land - actually possible!) but all the reports are very favorable,
and it's EXTREMELY stable (will any other kites hover with absolutely NO
pilot input?), but still more maneuverable for its size than an AR5 (actually
more maneuverable than an AR5 half its size!).

Mel

Mel
A lot of us a following your reports on the ARC with interest. I know
that you haven't fully tested the wind range, but if you had to label
your ARC 4.5 with a Naish/Wipika type of size, what size would it be?
Chris


--- In ksurfschool@y..., kiteboard@a... wrote:
> Day 132.  1/30/1  ~1.5hrs. (new total 5 hrs on 4.5 ARC)
>
> First day with ARC at gusty Cabrillo.  I guess I didn't sand the TE
enough
> for my attempt at downwind launching (before inflating enough it
pulled out

For mostly 5-10 knots, sometimes 10-15 knots and 80-83 kg, it's best to
start with a 7' directional board or 6' bidirectional board and a large
Wipika kite that give you at least 8 m2 PROJECTED SURFACE (The Wipika
FreeAir VARC 8.9 or 11.5 - not the old Free Air).  When you get better
you can add the Wipika Airblast 16.4 to your quiver.  Voila, allez
flysurf!

P.S. Foils are much better for light wind; however, for some reasons,
foils vendor "cannot" make foils bigger than 10 m2 and for your weight
and light wind condition you cannot buy bigger kites if you go the foil
route.  Concept Air have been promising this 12 m2 New Wave for a while
and you may want to check with them to see whether they have it.  If
this is the case, you can go for the New Wave 9.3 and then 12 later.

P.P.S. Even the largest Arc is only 8.4 m2 projected surface...  Peter
Lynn might have forgotten how to make bigger kites...

Hung.

Buzz Robert A Bezzina wrote:
>
> Hi Hung, Kenny and all the others on the ksurfschool e-group ...
>
> Have been following all the mails going back & forth with great
> pleasure for quite a while now and would like to thank all you guys
> for sharing the info ...
>
> I'm working & living here on Koh Samui (a small tropical island in
> south Thailand) right on the beach, which gets pretty fickle wind (say
> mostly 5-10 knots, very rarely 10-15) but really miss my wave-sailing
> days back home on the North coast of NSW, Aussie (15-30kts).
>
> I've gotta get back on the water somehow and hoping kite-sailing is
> the way to go. Despite reading heaps of good advice from all of you,
> I'm still confused as to what I should get as my first couple of kites
> to learn on (I know I'll probably trash 'em).
>
> Was thinking of getting a smaller Naish (AR3.5 or AR5) to learn on
> initially, then using a bigger one (13.0m or larger) after I get the
> hang of it .... then again, I read a good e-mail about a Concept New
> Wave so don't know what to go for ... I know an instruction video will
> be a must as there is no-one here at all who knows anything about
> kite-sailing ...
>
> I'm 80-83kg's and think I'm pretty fit for a forty year old ! haha...
>
> Willing to give it a go though ... any advice would be muchly
> appreciated !
>
> Thanx in advance,
>
> Buzz.
>
>
>
> >From: Hung Vu
> >Reply-To: ksurfschool@egroups.com
> >To: kitesurf@egroups.com, ksurfschool@egroups.com,
> cankitesurf@egroups.com
> >Subject: [ksurfschool] "Official" URL to the Kitesurfing School web
> site
> >Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:09:29 -0500
> >
> >It has been brought to my attention that some of the "pseudo" links
> to
> >the Kitesurfing School web site are not working anymore (due to the
> >forward/reverse DNS mapping if you know what that means). I you have
> >any link to the Kitesurfing School web site, please change it to the
> >"official" URL:
> >
> > http://www.netcom.ca/~hungvu/kitesurfing.htm
> >or
> > http://www.attcanada.ca/~hungvu/kitesurfing.htm
> >
> >Should I starting paying more money to put the site to a more
> >"permanent" location or what ???
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Hung.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>                 [Image]
> [Image]
>                                   www.
>
>

on 2/1/01 1:53 PM, Hung Vu at hungvu@... wrote:

> P.P.S. Even the largest Arc is only 8.4 m2 projected surface...  Peter
> Lynn might have forgotten how to make bigger kites...
>
> Hung.

I think he just forgot to mass produce them! He knows how to make them - the
Arc can be special ordered up to 30 sq m!!! for use in sailing boats.
Apparently the fabric they're made of can't hold together on a bigger kite
than 30m.

Mark Frasier

In a message dated 2/1/01 11:27:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cglazier@... writes:

<< if you had to label
  your ARC 4.5 with a Naish/Wipika type of size, what size would it be? >>

Short answer: Same as equal projected area (4.5 ARC "630" = 4.4 AR5 "7.5").

Long answer: I have NO idea about the new Wipika sizing, but it seems to have
very nearly the same low wind limit as an AR5 of the same specified projected
area.  Wipika has added confusion to the point where I question the accuracy
of the projected area specs, & don't know if the ARX is measured the same as
the AR5, but I'm very familiar with the power of the AR5 with 4.4 projected
("7.5 size"), & at the bottom end it's about the same as the ARC with 4.5
projected ("630 size").  Way back in my log I just found:
"...Fanatic 6'.  ... Barely staying upwind working the 7.5 in 11mph avg."
That's two mph less low end than the ARC, although that was with the stock
fins, & I've been using a single 8.5" slotted Orca kite fin (like a sailboard
wave fin), which feels a little less efficient than the 9.25" Curtis B&J
sailboard fin I also use sometimes (which felt about the same as the stock
fins).  I guess I could switch back to the 9.25, since it does feel better,
but I like the kelp-clearing of the more swept/raked 8.5, & with the slot
it's got the same spinout resistance.

Mel

Chris,

It is pretty close to a 9.5 Naish AR-5 (projected area 5.3).

As far as wind range, don't ask Mel he is lighter than most of us.  Mel, can
almost cover the entire wind range with 2 or 3 kites.  I use a quiver of 5
to cover the same range.  I weigh 175 LBS (80 kg).

Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: cglazier@... [mailto:cglazier@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 11:30 AM
To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Day 2 on ARC 4.5 ("630")


Mel
A lot of us a following your reports on the ARC with interest. I know
that you haven't fully tested the wind range, but if you had to label
your ARC 4.5 with a Naish/Wipika type of size, what size would it be?
Chris


--- In ksurfschool@y..., kiteboard@a... wrote:
> Day 132.  1/30/1  ~1.5hrs. (new total 5 hrs on 4.5 ARC)
>
> First day with ARC at gusty Cabrillo.  I guess I didn't sand the TE
enough
> for my attempt at downwind launching (before inflating enough it
pulled out

Hi all~
  I'm going to go kite skiing for the first time this weekend.  I am just
considering which kite to bring, my inflatable, or my foil.  Are there any
advantages to an inflatable in the snow?  It certainly doesn't need to float,
and think of the time I will save if I don't need to pump up the kite!  Yes!
Thanks for the input~
J

Mark Frasier wrote:
> on 2/1/01 1:53 PM, Hung Vu at hungvu@... wrote:
>
> > P.P.S. Even the largest Arc is only 8.4 m2 projected surface...  Peter
> > Lynn might have forgotten how to make bigger kites...
> >
> > Hung.
>
> I think he just forgot to mass produce them! He knows how to make them - the
> Arc can be special ordered up to 30 sq m!!! for use in sailing boats.
> Apparently the fabric they're made of can't hold together on a bigger kite
> than 30m.

So what "stop" Peter and the foil vendors from mass producing them
(kites larger than 10m2 and smaller than 30 m2)?

It's definitely not market demand as I and a number of people I have
exchanged emails with (Stefano for example) have been looking in the
last 2 years for  12+ m2 kites.....  The only non-custom kite that
currently may fit that description is the Wipika AirBlast 16.4 (the
other big inflatables are OK too but they may not have high AR and the
reverse relaunch capability - which are somewhat important in light
wind).

Ironically, in light wind, the inflatables are not as good as the foils
but the foil vendors somewhat "reluctant" to claim that market and the
inflatable vendors seem to be better marketeers.

Hung.

Hi J,

A couple of people have said it's pretty tough to relaunch an inflatable, or
even launch for that matter. You would get the normal benefits of a sled
(trim control, mostly) but you might want to plan on having a helper to toss
your kite up for you, and plan not to crash much! Generally I think (based
on what people have said about sleds) that foils would be better, unless you
have one of those new or modified sleds that can launch "in reverse" - that
is, fly up off the ground trailing edge first. Plus, as you said, you don't
have to deal with pumps, stiff valves, etc.

Are both your kites the same size? If you're on hard snow you'll need a lot
smaller kite than you use for kitesurfing.

What part of the country are you skiing in? If you're around VT/NY I'll put
you in touch with the guy that's running an F-One kiteskiing/snowboarding
demo this w/e, and maybe see you there.

Good luck,
Mark Frasier

----- Original Message -----
From: <Kitesurfgirl@...>
To: <Ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:13 PM
Subject: [ksurfschool] kite to use skiing?


> Hi all~
>  I'm going to go kite skiing for the first time this weekend.  I am just
> considering which kite to bring, my inflatable, or my foil.  Are there any
> advantages to an inflatable in the snow?  It certainly doesn't need to
float,
> and think of the time I will save if I don't need to pump up the kite!
Yes!
> Thanks for the input~
> J
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hung Vu" <hungvu@...>
To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Help - I'm confused !!!...


> Mark Frasier wrote:
> > on 2/1/01 1:53 PM, Hung Vu at hungvu@... wrote:
> >
> > > P.P.S. Even the largest Arc is only 8.4 m2 projected surface...  Peter
> > > Lynn might have forgotten how to make bigger kites...
> > >
> > > Hung.
> >
> > I think he just forgot to mass produce them! He knows how to make them -
the
> > Arc can be special ordered up to 30 sq m!!! for use in sailing boats.
> > Apparently the fabric they're made of can't hold together on a bigger
kite
> > than 30m.
>
> So what "stop" Peter and the foil vendors from mass producing them
> (kites larger than 10m2 and smaller than 30 m2)?

Well, he seems to think there's no practical use for kites much bigger than
that. I know here where I get very smooth wind and plenty of 10mph days I
really get a lot of use from a 10.5 CQ and could sometimes use something
beigger. Actually, when I first got my 10.5 I was a bit skeptical that it
would be more useful than the 8.5. Knowing that windspeed limits kitespeed I
feared that I had got down to the point where I would have heaps of power
but not enough speed to plane. But in 10 mph the 10.5 is definately
noticably more effective than the 8.5. So I disagree with his assertion that
there's no kitesurf use for kites over 8m or whatever. I still think the
limit for low wind is based more on kite efficiency than kite power, but
I've changed my mind about where the lower limit is. Seems like now that
there's more money going into the kite business the efficiency of new
designs is rising faster then ever. The more efficient the kite the lower
the limit should be, so the more practical a large kite should be.

> It's definitely not market demand as I and a number of people I have
> exchanged emails with (Stefano for example) have been looking in the
> last 2 years for  12+ m2 kites.....  The only non-custom kite that
> currently may fit that description is the Wipika AirBlast 16.4 (the
> other big inflatables are OK too but they may not have high AR and the
> reverse relaunch capability - which are somewhat important in light
> wind).

I'm curious - why haven't you ordered a custom kite? Is it a lot more
expensive?

Did you ever hear from Stefano about his 12.5 CQ?

> Ironically, in light wind, the inflatables are not as good as the foils
> but the foil vendors somewhat "reluctant" to claim that market and the
> inflatable vendors seem to be better marketeers.

That is weird. If anyone knows how to make a light wind traction kite it's
Peter Lynn. He just doesn't seem to think they're worth mass producing. The
biggest Waterfoil they made was a 5.7 - heck, I only get to use a kite that
small maybe 20% of my days on the water. Maybe there are some liability
fears or something.

Too bad, since the inflatables will eventually catch up to foils in light
wind if foilmakers don't get cracking (IMO :). A while ago there were all
kinds of questions on the ksurf list about the 12.5 CQ. The general opinion
at that time was that it was too hard to relaunch inflatables in the wind a
12.5 would be used in, so relaunching was not a big issue. That would have
been the perfect time to send a few of those monsters to the market so
people would see them out on the water when nothing else worked. Now Wipika
has kites that are as big and seem to be getting them out there, and Naish
is coming right up behind them. After having seen how people will accept a
higher performance sled that is not quite as easy to fly or relaunch I think
Wipika/Naish will start to produce kites that are lighter and more fragile
and more expensive but work better in light wind.

Interesting subject and I have many thoughts on it, but I've got to get
going and you folks are probably getting bored :)

Anyhow, they're in the business, maybe they know something we don't.

Mark Frasier

> Hung.
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hung Vu" <hungvu@...>
To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Help - I'm confused !!!...


...
> So what "stop" Peter and the foil vendors from mass producing them
> (kites larger than 10m2 and smaller than 30 m2)?
...

You know, I just realized something - when the C Quads first came out the
biggest size planned was a 6.3. Now 8.5s are common and they also make 10.5s
and 12.5s. Same story with Peels. Other companies do the same thing, too
(Quadrifoil springs to mind).

Maybe we will see bigger Arcs (et. al.) in the next batch, especially if
people make the demand known to the manufacturers. 10 people bobbing in the
water wishing for a bigger kite are not worth one who writes to the people
who need to hear it - especially if the manufacturers are in windy Maui or
wherever....

Mark Frasier

Hi, I just got back from a session with my Naish AR5 13.5m2. I'm a
beginner in this kite business but I'm already at a point where I'm
able to go upwind and a lot of times get back to where I started
without walking (I'm pretty proud of that actually)

Anyway, one of the frustrations I'm experiencing with my four line
kite is that if I let go of the bar (this happens to me when I see
TOO MANY windsurfers coming straight at me and I'm no too much in
control, and I don't want to kill anyone for example) all the lines
become tangled (basically the ones on the sides with the ones in the
middle) and I don't even have a clue how to start untangling. I also
don't know if it is because of the bar spininning within the lines or
if it is the kite. The kite does work with the lines crossed but it
feels awkward, and I lose confidence that it can work right (maybe it
can)

I finish going back to land, disconneting, and reconnecting the lines.
Obviously this isn't an answer since if it happens further out (for
now I always try to stay in shallow water since I'm not too confident
in deep water)

Can anyone give me advice on this?
Is it that I should never let go of the bar?
Is it that it's only psychologicar and that the kite works fine with
the lines crossed?

I would really appreciate any help

Thanks

It happened to me a couple of times too after wipe-outs in big jumps.
Use the following tricks:

	 1- Learn the art of tangling and untangling at home (tie your 4 lines
to 4 posts on the ground 30m away and then learn how to tangle and
untangle your bar & safety leash with your lines - you will be amazed
;-)
	 2- If you have yet master the untangling art, most of the time, you
should still be able to control the kite well enough to continue as
usual.
	 3- The other times, you should still be able to ride back to the beach
to re-align the lines.

In any case, don't drop the bar too often; try to bring the kite up
overhead instead - get off your board if you have to. (Lines on the
water are also dangerous as the kite can launch at any moment if the
lines got caught on something)

Hung.

herrerav@... wrote:
>
> Hi, I just got back from a session with my Naish AR5 13.5m2. I'm a
> beginner in this kite business but I'm already at a point where I'm
> able to go upwind and a lot of times get back to where I started
> without walking (I'm pretty proud of that actually)
>
> Anyway, one of the frustrations I'm experiencing with my four line
> kite is that if I let go of the bar (this happens to me when I see
> TOO MANY windsurfers coming straight at me and I'm no too much in
> control, and I don't want to kill anyone for example) all the lines
> become tangled (basically the ones on the sides with the ones in the
> middle) and I don't even have a clue how to start untangling. I also
> don't know if it is because of the bar spininning within the lines or
> if it is the kite. The kite does work with the lines crossed but it
> feels awkward, and I lose confidence that it can work right (maybe it
> can)
>
> I finish going back to land, disconneting, and reconnecting the lines.
> Obviously this isn't an answer since if it happens further out (for
> now I always try to stay in shallow water since I'm not too confident
> in deep water)
>
> Can anyone give me advice on this?
> Is it that I should never let go of the bar?
> Is it that it's only psychologicar and that the kite works fine with
> the lines crossed?
>
> I would really appreciate any help
>
> Thanks
>

Mark Frasier wrote:
> I'm curious - why haven't you ordered a custom kite? Is it a lot more
> expensive?
>
> Did you ever hear from Stefano about his 12.5 CQ?

I had some high-end custom sport equipment made for me 15 years ago and
my brain has learned to associate the word "custom" with "guinea pig".
I have to somehow cross this psychological barrier :-)

Besides, I am more a less a "community person" trying to improve the
sport and going custom may not be the answer.

I have yet heard anything about his 12.5 CQ.  Did he post anything
interesting on the kitesurf group?

> You know, I just realized something - when the C Quads first came out the
> biggest size planned was a 6.3. Now 8.5s are common and they also make 10.5s
> and 12.5s. Same story with Peels. Other companies do the same thing, too
> (Quadrifoil springs to mind).
>
> Maybe we will see bigger Arcs (et. al.) in the next batch, especially if
> people make the demand known to the manufacturers. 10 people bobbing in the
> water wishing for a bigger kite are not worth one who writes to the people
> who need to hear it - especially if the manufacturers are in windy Maui or
> wherever....

C-Quad 12.5 is still very much a custom kite.

I would introduce them differently: bigger size first, smaller size
latter.

The vendors should also monitor the discussion on various kitesurfing
groups if they are good marketeers (it looks like the inflatable kite
vendors did their homework - and some of them are in windy Maui ;-)

Hung.

In a message dated 2/1/01 9:16:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, hungvu@...
writes:

<< Even the largest Arc is only 8.4 m2 projected surface. >>

My chart shows it's not even that big, (only 8.0).  I think they revised the
sizes recently to more accurately reflect the correct projected areas.

Mel

In a message dated 2/1/01 2:12:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jeremybuzzard@... writes:

<< the left back line had snapped, >>

What strength?  The distributor & some group members say use 300lb on back,
but the manual says use 600s all-around (so that's what I'm using, since I
had them already on my bar!).

<< the safety leash slid out
  from the back line (the same one that snapped). >>

That's a good point.  If that happens to be the line that breaks, you now
have no leash.  That's a point in favor of the "two lines on one side" leash
system.

<< dropping the bar on
  the beach...  The kite propellered down to earth (ten more
  minutes working out tangles). >>

Another point in favor of the 2-line leash (as you mention later).

<< I watched the kite
  drift back towards the centre of the wind window and made the
  decision that I was going to get hammered so I dropped the bar >>

If you keep the front lines long enough while on land, you can oversheet &
"brake" it so it doesn't move too fast up to the top, thereby safely reducing
the power.

<< Very easy to launch downwind (at risk of a bit of a big drag) >>

Same technique works there (keep the "brakes" on).

<< The safety system that is supplied with the kite and bar
  package is woefully inadequate... >>

But anything that works with an inflatable sled will work fine.

<<  - the kite can easily turn inside out a couple of times and I
  don't think I could even fly it with that much of a tangle (the friction
  would be huge) >>

Line twists are less problem than one might think.  I've flown my AR5 easily
with several twists.

<< buy the twist grip bar - it sounds like a
  really good idea, and would make sheeting much easier.
  I am designing my own bar and line system for it - I want to have
  a sheeting system which can easily be released with one hand if
  I am overpowered - I will post it when I work out whether it works. >>

I just used the same "MelMods" as on my AR5.  I think they work even better
on the ARC, since there seems to be even less need to hook into the rear
lines (even less load than an AR5, even when underpowered & constantly
sheeting in).

Mel

Hung,

That really sounds like great advice. I'll try playing around with
all the crossing possibilities on land and hope to get the hang of it.

I'll keep you posted on the progress

Regards

Rodrigo
Buenos Aires, Argentina

--- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
> It happened to me a couple of times too after wipe-outs in big
jumps.
> Use the following tricks:
>
>  1- Learn the art of tangling and untangling at home (tie your
4 lines
> to 4 posts on the ground 30m away and then learn how to tangle and
> untangle your bar & safety leash with your lines - you will be
amazed
> ;-)
>  2- If you have yet master the untangling art, most of the
time, you
> should still be able to control the kite well enough to continue as
> usual.
>  3- The other times, you should still be able to ride back to
the beach
> to re-align the lines.
>
> In any case, don't drop the bar too often; try to bring the kite up
> overhead instead - get off your board if you have to. (Lines on the
> water are also dangerous as the kite can launch at any moment if the
> lines got caught on something)
>
> Hung.
>
> herrerav@f... wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I just got back from a session with my Naish AR5 13.5m2. I'm a
> > beginner in this kite business but I'm already at a point where
I'm
> > able to go upwind and a lot of times get back to where I started
> > without walking (I'm pretty proud of that actually)
> >
> > Anyway, one of the frustrations I'm experiencing with my four line
> > kite is that if I let go of the bar (this happens to me when I see
> > TOO MANY windsurfers coming straight at me and I'm no too much in
> > control, and I don't want to kill anyone for example) all the
lines
> > become tangled (basically the ones on the sides with the ones in
the
> > middle) and I don't even have a clue how to start untangling. I
also
> > don't know if it is because of the bar spininning within the
lines or
> > if it is the kite. The kite does work with the lines crossed but
it
> > feels awkward, and I lose confidence that it can work right
(maybe it
> > can)
> >
> > I finish going back to land, disconneting, and reconnecting the
lines.
> > Obviously this isn't an answer since if it happens further out
(for
> > now I always try to stay in shallow water since I'm not too
confident
> > in deep water)
> >
> > Can anyone give me advice on this?
> > Is it that I should never let go of the bar?
> > Is it that it's only psychologicar and that the kite works fine
with
> > the lines crossed?
> >
> > I would really appreciate any help
> >
> > Thanks
> >

I am interested in learning more about building kitesurfing boards due
to
the occupational hazard that windsurfing/kitesurfing students have of
having
very little money. Does anybody have any information about building
kitesurfing boards, I'm looking at making a directional board at the
moment
I'm planning on using a standard surfboard blank with extra fibreglass
on
top to add to it's strength and obviously blocks to skrew the
footstraps
into. Can anybody give me any information on length, rail shape,
footstrap
postion, or any other advice on how to do it.
I've been kitesurfing once before and by the end of the day was
getting up
quite confidently on both sides using a Naish AR5 7.5 (8-10kts I
think) on a
Naish beginners board (about 7'6 long), so I want to make myself
something
that will allow me to progress to jumping and jibing whilst not having
to be
too overpowered to get up and planing.
Any suggestions or information welcome, I look forward to hearing the
replies.
Thanks
Ian

Check out Rainer's board building site at
http://students.washington.edu/rainer/

I will add the link to this site to the Kitesurfing FAQ in the next
update.

Hung.

ian.billings@... wrote:
>
> I am interested in learning more about building kitesurfing boards due
> to
> the occupational hazard that windsurfing/kitesurfing students have of
> having
> very little money. Does anybody have any information about building
> kitesurfing boards, I'm looking at making a directional board at the
> moment
> I'm planning on using a standard surfboard blank with extra fibreglass
> on
> top to add to it's strength and obviously blocks to skrew the
> footstraps
> into. Can anybody give me any information on length, rail shape,
> footstrap
> postion, or any other advice on how to do it.
> I've been kitesurfing once before and by the end of the day was
> getting up
> quite confidently on both sides using a Naish AR5 7.5 (8-10kts I
> think) on a
> Naish beginners board (about 7'6 long), so I want to make myself
> something
> that will allow me to progress to jumping and jibing whilst not having
> to be
> too overpowered to get up and planing.
> Any suggestions or information welcome, I look forward to hearing the
> replies.
> Thanks
> Ian
>

In a message dated 2/1/01 5:06:05 PM Mountain Standard Time,
brockus@... writes:

<< Hi J,

  A couple of people have said it's pretty tough to relaunch an inflatable, or
  even launch for that matter. You would get the normal benefits of a sled
  (trim control, mostly) but you might want to plan on having a helper to toss
  your kite up for you, and plan not to crash much! Generally I think (based
  on what people have said about sleds) that foils would be better, unless you
  have one of those new or modified sleds that can launch "in reverse" - that
  is, fly up off the ground trailing edge first. Plus, as you said, you don't
  have to deal with pumps, stiff valves, etc.

  Are both your kites the same size? If you're on hard snow you'll need a lot
  smaller kite than you use for kitesurfing.

  What part of the country are you skiing in? If you're around VT/NY I'll put
  you in touch with the guy that's running an F-One kiteskiing/snowboarding
  demo this w/e, and maybe see you there.

  Good luck,
  Mark Frasier
   >>
Hi Mark~
Thanks so much for the good advice.  Now I will at least have some sort of
heads up when I try this tomorrow.  Ü  I only have one kite that is not an
inflatable, a 4.4 ARC.  Hopefully the wind will cooperate so I can use it!
Otherwise I guess I will bring small inflatable as back up.  Yes, I have
three of the new 5 line Wipika kites ordered, which should launch in reverse.
  Can't wait to try them out...
I am skiing in Salt Lake City, Utah.  Quite a ways from New York, but thanks
anyway!  I hope all goes well for you this weekend.
Have fun~
Jacqueline

Day 133.  2/2/1.   ~1.5hrs. (new total 6.5 hrs on 4.5 ARC)

I must have just been lucky the other time edge launching, because today with
NO T.E. vent pre-inflation, it was rather hard to launch.  Maybe a little
pre-inflation opens up the cells enough to allow more air in when holding the
tips apart.  It seems to need a certain minimum pre-inflation to keep the
unsanded end from folding underneath when pulling on the lines.

I can't get the iwindsurf graph to load, but the highest pager readings I saw
were an average of 15mph, & a peak of 19, although I think the readings were
likely higher in the middle of my session.  It was SUPER gusty on the water &
I could definitely feel it.  Compared to an AR5 it feels like it has a lot
more "automatic" gust handling capacity, but possibly less manual power
control (even with huge sheeting movement).  I think this will make it better
for moderately gusty conditions, but maybe not quite as good for extremely
gusty days, at least not if you're used to an inflatable sled with full-time
instantaneous unlimited sheeting range (like I am).  Because of this slightly
less manually variable power in today's tough conditions, it was more
difficult to make as much progress upwind, but I didn't have to walk, even
though I "tested" the waterlaunching quite thoroughly.

The first crash was from blowing a jibe trying to steer around big clumps of
kelp.  The kite had flown all the way to the other side of the window, but I
was still going nearly straight downwind to try to avoid the kelp.  The kite
luffed completely, turning inside out as it drifted back in the air, before
landing inside out LE down nearly dead downwind.  I don't know exactly what I
did, but after yanking & releasing pretty much randomly on the lines in
various combinations while it flopped around on the water, at one point it
was twisted 180 degrees (one side right side out, one side inside out), but
it finally relaunched properly after a total of maybe a minute or two.  Once
I intentionally crashed it LE down, in order to try the reverse launch, but
while letting out the center strap adjustment (to be able to apply sufficient
rear line tension) I decided to pull in on its leader to remove a big chunk
of kelp that had caught there on the first crash.  By the time I got it off,
the kite had rolled over & was launching itself.  Once in a big lull, after
falling over backwards I didn't have time to pull in on the center strap to
keep it from stalling & falling.  The wind was quite light, & it folded
completely in half, with the tips touching.  Using the same lack of
technique, it launched again after several minutes, & appeared to have lost
about ¼ of its full inflation.

Mel

Thanx so much for your reply Hung...

Not as confused as before however still have a couple of questions...

>For mostly 5-10 knots, sometimes 10-15 knots and 80-83 kg, it's best to start with a 7' directional board or 6' bidirectional board

YEAH, I SORT OF ALREADY WORKED OUT THAT ONE OF THE LARGER SIZE DIRECTIONALS WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO...

and a large Wipika kite that give you at least 8 m2 PROJECTED SURFACE (The Wipika FreeAir VARC 8.9 or 11.5 - not the old Free Air).

OK, FIRSTLY IS THE WIPIKA AN INFLATABLE ?

AND, WHAT DOES 'ARC' (& VARC) ACTUALLY STAND FOR ?

When you get better you can add the Wipika Airblast 16.4 to your quiver. Voila, allez flysurf!

THANX, I REALISE I'M GUNNA HAVE TO GET DRAGGED ALONG A BEACH FOR A FEWS DAYS FIRST BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO TRY THE BOARD AS WELL...

(ACTUALLY, WE DON'T HAVE VERY WIDE BEACHES HERE - LOTS OF SHALLOW WATER THOUGH WHICH SHOULD BE GREAT LATER ON FOR LEARNING WITH THE BOARD)

ALSO, WHAT ABOUT THE NAISH KITES ? THE ONLY REASON I ASK IS BECAUSE I CAN GET A REALLY GOOD DEAL ON A COUPLE OF LAST YEARS MODELS, SO THOUGHT IT'S BE BETTER TO TRASH A LESS EXPENSIVE ONE FIRST ??? 

IS THE WIPIKA PROJECTED SURFACE OF 8m2 (The Wipika FreeAir VARC 8.9 WHICH U MENTIONED ABOVE )  MORE POWERFUL THAN A FOIL 10m2 ???

 and for your weight and light wind condition you cannot buy bigger kites if you go the foil route.

OH OK, SO FORGET ABOUT A FOIL THEN ...

 Concept Air have been promising this 12 m2 New Wave for a while and you may want to check with them to see whether they have it. If this is the case, you can go for the New Wave 9.3 and then 12 later.

SOUNDS GOOD ( especailly if they do eventually make a 12m2) ... IS THE CONCEPT NEW WAVE AN INFLATABLE ?

ANYWAY, THANX SO MUCH FOR THE ADVICE HUNG - REALLY, IT'S MUCHLY APPRECIATED!!!

WARM REGARDS FROM THE TROPIICS,

BUZZ.

PS: one last question: do you have handy the wipika URL ?

Buzz Robert A Bezzina wrote:
> and a large Wipika kite that give you at least 8 m2 PROJECTED SURFACE
> (The Wipika FreeAir VARC 8.9 or 11.5 - not the old Free Air).
>
> OK, FIRSTLY IS THE WIPIKA AN INFLATABLE ?
>
> AND, WHAT DOES 'ARC' (& VARC) ACTUALLY STAND FOR ?

Wipika is an inlfatable (actually, they invented it :-)

VARC stands for Variable Aspect Ratio Concept (this means that you get
different aspect ratios for different kite size - may be Chris can put
VARC in our glossary at http://members.attcanada.ca/~hungvu/glossary.htm
for the next update :))

> When you get better you can add the Wipika Airblast 16.4 to your
> quiver. Voila, allez flysurf!
>
> THANX, I REALISE I'M GUNNA HAVE TO GET DRAGGED ALONG A BEACH FOR A
> FEWS DAYS FIRST BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO TRY THE BOARD AS WELL...
>
> (ACTUALLY, WE DON'T HAVE VERY WIDE BEACHES HERE - LOTS OF SHALLOW
> WATER THOUGH WHICH SHOULD BE GREAT LATER ON FOR LEARNING WITH THE
> BOARD)
>
> ALSO, WHAT ABOUT THE NAISH KITES ? THE ONLY REASON I ASK IS BECAUSE I
> CAN GET A REALLY GOOD DEAL ON A COUPLE OF LAST YEARS MODELS, SO
> THOUGHT IT'S BE BETTER TO TRASH A LESS EXPENSIVE ONE FIRST ???

They should be fine too!  However, for very light wind the AirBlast is
slightly better (higher AR and reverse relaunch).  I am thinking of
getting an AirBlast 16.4 myself this summer (I have to start saving
money for it now :-(

>  Concept Air have been promising this 12 m2 New Wave for a while and
> you may want to check with them to see whether they have it. If this
> is the case, you can go for the New Wave 9.3 and then 12 later.
>
> SOUNDS GOOD ( especailly if they do eventually make a 12m2) ... IS THE
> CONCEPT NEW WAVE AN INFLATABLE ?

All the Concept Air kites are foils.  I heard a "rumor" that Concept Air
have shipped and is making the EX's Wave 12.5 m2 (now, that's a kite)

> PS: one last question: do you have handy the wipika URL ?

www.wipika.com and URL's for most kitesurfing manufacturers (Wipika,
Concept Air, etc.):

http://members.attcanada.ca/~hungvu/kitesurfinglinks.htm

Hung.

JD,

I think it depends on which model you are considering purchasing.  I think
the 16M FreeAir is a great kite and I think it is superior to the Naish 15.5.
  However, I have heard some great reviews on the new 11.8 Airblast
(approximately same size, but Wipika decided to confuse us all) see the
review by Jeff Quick in the ksurf egroup.  I personally am selling my 11.0
FreeAir because it has a low aspect ratio.  It is slow and does not respond
as well to gusty conditions as the 11.5 Naish AR-5.  If you are just starting
and want a 2 line kite that you can later convert to 4 lines, I recommend the
smaller (8.5 and down) over the Naish AR-3.5 kites.  The Free Air Kites are
easy to convert to 4 lines because the come with handy velcro strips that
make the conversion simple and clean.  I hope that helps.  Please do not
hesitate to ask more questions.

Kenny



<< Hung - or anyone else,
  There are deals around for the 2000 Free Airs, as I'm sure you know, so I've
been wondering if I should take advantage of that now.  But with the new VARC
concept, is this year's Free Air VERY different?
  Plus sellers are saying the Airblast, which from what I understand is a high
performance kite, can be used by people with only a few months experience.
So my other question is, what type of ride do the new 2001 Airblasts and Free
Airs offer?

  Tks for yr help
  JD >>

kiteboard@... wrote:
> likely higher in the middle of my session.  It was SUPER gusty on the water &
> I could definitely feel it.  Compared to an AR5 it feels like it has a lot
> more "automatic" gust handling capacity, but possibly less manual power
> control (even with huge sheeting movement).  I think this will make it better
> for moderately gusty conditions, but maybe not quite as good for extremely
> gusty days, at least not if you're used to an inflatable sled with full-time
> instantaneous unlimited sheeting range (like I am).  Because of this slightly

Does this means that the ARC may have a smaller wind range than the
AR5/AirBlast ?

Hung.

Kenny
Thanks for yr reply.
I've got about 4 months of weekend practice under my belt - my problem is
that, where I go, the wind is pretty variable.
I've been using a Wipika classic 8.5 which I want to sell soon while it's
still worth something. I weigh around 83 kilos. So the days when the wind
was 12-18 knots, I was able to get out.  BUT, I spent about half my time
sitting around waiting either for the wind to pick up or die down. The wind
range is around 8 - 24 knots.  I'd like to try to get by with 2 kites rather
than 3 as money is an issue. I'm ready to get a brand new Free Air (but
don't know if 2000 or 2001 model) or Airblast but for the 2nd kite I'll look
for something 2nd hand. Problem is, which sizes?
I've seen 11.5 AR5s around 2nd hand but I'm not sure about their wind range.
Do you think a kite around the 11m range and one around 7m would cover the
8-24 knot range?
Thanks for yr help.
JD


-----Original Message-----
From: kennyfarnsworth@... <kennyfarnsworth@...>
To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 03 February 2001 4:35
Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Free Air2000 vs Free Air2001


>JD,
>
>I think it depends on which model you are considering purchasing.  I think
>the 16M FreeAir is a great kite and I think it is superior to the Naish
15.5.
> However, I have heard some great reviews on the new 11.8 Airblast
>(approximately same size, but Wipika decided to confuse us all) see the
>review by Jeff Quick in the ksurf egroup.  I personally am selling my 11.0
>FreeAir because it has a low aspect ratio.  It is slow and does not respond
>as well to gusty conditions as the 11.5 Naish AR-5.  If you are just
starting
>and want a 2 line kite that you can later convert to 4 lines, I recommend
the
>smaller (8.5 and down) over the Naish AR-3.5 kites.  The Free Air Kites are
>easy to convert to 4 lines because the come with handy velcro strips that
>make the conversion simple and clean.  I hope that helps.  Please do not
>hesitate to ask more questions.
>
>Kenny
>
>
>
><< Hung - or anyone else,
> There are deals around for the 2000 Free Airs, as I'm sure you know, so
I've
>been wondering if I should take advantage of that now.  But with the new
VARC
>concept, is this year's Free Air VERY different?
> Plus sellers are saying the Airblast, which from what I understand is a
high
>performance kite, can be used by people with only a few months experience.
>So my other question is, what type of ride do the new 2001 Airblasts and
Free
>Airs offer?
>
> Tks for yr help
> JD >>
>
>
>
>

I don't know about the AirBlast, but I'm very familiar with the AR5 of the
same projected area, which is what I'm comparing it to.  It wasn't windy
enough for me to really test the upper end of the wind range, although in
some of the longer, stronger gusts it felt like it might be pretty similar in
that respect (24mph>20knots).  In my post I forgot to mention that more
testing is needed, because it was SO extremely gusty yesterday that even my
buddy Kenny was in his 9.5 trim loop (which is quite rare) & said he
frequently needed to sheet instantly from min to max.

I got the iwindsurf.com graph to load this morning, & I was riding when the
peak shows 12-24 (!), averaging 17, & the lowest reading while I was out was
7-17 (!), avg. 12mph.  I think I'd have been pushing the limits of an AR5's
manual gust handling range also (it has virtually no automatic range).

I just checked my log & my 5th day on my AR5 (3/15/00) has pretty similar
readings, & I only described it as "pretty gusty", but I'd been used to a
2-line with no sheeting at all.  4/12/00 it was so gusty I landed the kite in
the water when I quit, & the worst reading later in the day is around 10-20,
avg. 15.  I also labeled 8/3/00 "pretty gusty", at 13-27, av. 19, and 9/25/00
had "big, strong gusts", momentarily 13-28, av. 19, but I might have been
further out, or further upwind when that happened.  After reading my log, I
actually remember that last day clearly, as I was really struggling at the
limit of gust handling on the AR5.  You can check the charts yourself if you
like.  Compare yesterday to 9/25.

Keep in mind that when it's stronger, I usually ride further upwind, where
it's much less gusty here, & yesterday was still not very strong (av. 17
max.) so I was in the "blast zone".  I now think the ARC & AR5 may compare
quite similarly for GUST handling range.  Top end limit yet to be tested, but
I hope I can do that soon, since it will mean I get to go in nice strong
winds!

Mel

In a message dated 2/3/01 8:34:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, hungvu@...
writes:

<< kiteboard@... wrote:
  > likely higher in the middle of my session.  It was SUPER gusty on the
water &
  > I could definitely feel it.  Compared to an AR5 it feels like it has a lot
  > more "automatic" gust handling capacity, but possibly less manual power
  > control (even with huge sheeting movement).  I think this will make it
better
  > for moderately gusty conditions, but maybe not quite as good for extremely
  > gusty days, at least not if you're used to an inflatable sled with
full-time
  > instantaneous unlimited sheeting range (like I am).  Because of this
slightly

  Does this means that the ARC may have a smaller wind range than the
  AR5/AirBlast ?
   >>

All the new kite sizes by Wipika, ARC, Naish are confusing. So I am
putting together a table of some popular kites. But some
manufacturers don't give many specs and others like Naish don't even
have a working website anymore. (What's going on with Naish?).

Anyway, here is what I have so far. If anyone has more kite specs or
has a URL where we can find them, please email me. When this is a
little more complete I will post it in the files area. And maybe Hung
can put it in the kitesurf school website.

Chris Glazier
-------------------------------------------------------------------


  Model    Area  Projected  Aspect  Weight     Wind Range?
         (flat)       Area   Ratio              low   high
             m2         m2              kg    knots  knots

ARC, Peter Lynn (foil)    http://www.peterlynnkites.co.nz/
     460     4.6        3.3             1.1       14     27
     630     6.3        4.5             1.4       11     22
     840     8.4        6.0             1.7        8     16
    1120    11.2        8.0             2.2        5     11

Concept Air New Wave (foil)       http://www.conceptair.com
     3.0     3.0                3.5               20     35
     4.1     4.1                3.5               18     30
     4.9     4.9                3.5               15     25
     6.3     6.3                3.5               12     20
     7.3     7.3                3.5                9     18
     9.3     9.3                3.5                8     15
    11.3    11.3                3.5                6     12

Flexifoil Blade (foil)    http://www.flexifoil.co.uk
     2.6     2.6                3.9
     3.3     3.3                4.4
     4.9     4.9                5.5
     7.2     7.2        6.5     5.2

Mosquito Pro (foil)       http://www.windtools.com
     4.5     4.5                                  15     32
     5.5     5.5        4.8     4.8               11     27
     6.5     6.5                                   8     21
     7.5     7.5                                   5     16
     9.0     9.0                                   2      7

Naish AR3.5 (inflatable)  http://www.kitesurfing.com
     3.0     3.0                3.5               25     35
     4.0     4.0                3.5               20     30
     5.0     5.0                3.5               12     25
     7.0     7.0        4.8     3.5               10     20
     9.0     9.0        5.8     3.5                6     15
    11.0    11.0                3.5                4     10

Naish AR5 (inflatable)    http://www.kitesurfing.com
     4.5     4.5                5.0               25     35
     5.5     5.5                5.0               18     25
     7.5     7.5                5.0               14     22
     9.5     9.5        5.4     5.0               10     18
    11.5    11.5        6.4     5.0                8     16
    13.5    13.5                5.0                6     14
    15.5    15.5                5.0                4     12

Naish ARX (inflatable)    (website not working 2001/02/03)
     3.5
     4.5
     5.5
     7.5
     9.5
    11.5
    13.5
    17.5
    19.5
    21.5
    23.5

Wipika Classic (inflatable)       http://www.wipika.com
     3.0     3.0                        1.0       22     32
     4.0     4.0
     5.0     5.0                        1.2       15     25
     6.5     6.5
     8.5     8.5        5.7     2.2     2.0        7     17

Wipika Airblast VARC (inflatable) http://www.wipika.com
     3.1     4.0        3.1     2.6
     3.8     5.0        3.8     3.0
     4.9     6.5        4.9     3.5
     6.3     8.5        6.3     4.1
     8.4    11.5        8.4     4.8
    11.8    16.0       11.8     5.5
    16.4    22.0       16.4     6.4

Wipika FreeAir VARC (inflatable)  http://www.wipika.com
     4.4     4.4        2.8
     5.6     5.6        3.1
     7.1     7.1        3.5
     8.9     8.9        3.9
    11.5    11.5        4.6
    14.9    14.9        5.5