I think the hardest climb is a personal thing, for my inexperienced
legs the hardest part of a climb i did was the section of the Glandon
when returning in the direction of Allemont.  There is a section of
hairpins with a grandient of 12% just above the village of Rivere
D'Allemont.

I found this climb to be very hard due to the build of a lactic acid
from climnbing the Glandon, the dehydration and the ditch i ended up
in just before this section starts.

It probably doesn't feature on many people's list but this is more a
personal insight.

By the way has anyone ridden the road from Villard Reclusas to Huez?
Very stressy road due to being very narrow, no crash barriers and a
huge (and i mean huge) drop on one side.


--- In kom_@yahoogroups.com, Darren Earp <darren.earp@i...> wrote:
> Some time ago I visited the Lake District in England and told you
of my
> struggle over the 30% gradients of Hard Knot Pass and Wrinose Pass.
I've
> just had a film developed that had a few pictures of the Wrinose
climb. I'd
> like to make these accessible as soon as they are scanned, as I
don't have a
> Web Site, is there somewhere I can put them - there are only three
pictures!
> Regards,
> Darren.
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>
>     >It is always nice to talk about the hardest climb.
>     >
>     >cheers
>     >
>     >Luddo
>
>
>
>
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notify
> the system manager.
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Some time ago I visited the Lake District in England and told you of my
struggle over the 30% gradients of Hard Knot Pass and Wrinose Pass. I've
just had a film developed that had a few pictures of the Wrinose climb. I'd
like to make these accessible as soon as they are scanned, as I don't have a
Web Site, is there somewhere I can put them - there are only three pictures!
Regards,
Darren.

     -----Original Message-----

     >It is always nice to talk about the hardest climb.
     >
     >cheers
     >
     >Luddo



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>It is always nice to talk about the hardest climb.
>
>cheers
>
>Luddo
And for me the hardest climb remains the one i did not do, or rather finish.
It also happens to be quite beautiful.

I believe i related this before, but last century, shit, El Che was still
alive then, i was climbing from below Coroico at 1100m to La Cumbre (4653m)
without an altimeter or speedometer (and there are no markers on the road),
and gave up when approaching the clouds to hitch a ride back (I nearly
froze on top of that truck) to La Paz.

Although i have gone back to Boivia 3 times since then, i never had the
opportunity to finish the job, so for me it remains the hardest climb.
Paving it might be finished in the next 50 years. You always see reports
about that road ( at least you do in switzerland, france, germany,...).
It might be the most dangerous for cars in the world, but not for bicycles.

Cheers
François

--- In kom_@yahoogroups.com, "mjbflr" <mjbflr@y...> wrote:
> As Francois said the Sabot is a genuine paved climb.  I rode it in
> 20001,2002.
> Another climb in that area which
> he recommended was the road turning left towards Rissiou rocks
before
> reaching Vaujany from Allemond/Pouchery/lePerrier.  On IGN this is
> not named except for title Roche Grande but has height documented

Thanks i will check it out.

>By the way I can't understand why everybody uses Michelin maps.  IGN
> to my mind are far better maps showing detailed gradients etc.

It is easier to look at arrows than counting elevation lines.
In my opinion the maps are easier to read and get a better overview.
And they are cheap too.

> The top 10 climbs listed are quite useful  but it seems there are 2
> different approaches slection of steepest or longest climbs eg your
> preference of Spandelles to Tourmalet.

If you look at the different formula's for ranking climbs the
Tourmalet wins from the Spandelles. It was not maths, just my
impression. Maybe that was because I wasn't fit enough :-D

>Maybe there are 2 different
> things being measured anaerobic or aerobic requirements which can
be
> combined. However I'd guess steepness isn't as important as
> denivellation because very low gears can be used.

There has been extensive discussions on the internet on
ranking/rating of climbs(see the old discussions in
rec.bicycles.rides).
It is always nice to talk about the hardest climb.

cheers

Luddo

For IGN maps ordering on line, try

http://www.mapsworldwide.com/

--- John Summerson <jsummers@...> wrote:
> Thanks for the information.  Michelin maps do seem
> to miss many small
> roads.  Anyone know where IGN maps are available?
>
> JHS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mjbflr [mailto:mjbflr@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:29 PM
> To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [kom_] Re: Sabotage
>
>
> --- In kom_@yahoogroups.com, "luddo_oh" <luddo@s...>
> wrote:
> > I was looking for the conditions of the road from
> Vaujany to col du
> > Sabot. On the Michelin map it is still a dotted
> line.
>
> Hi Luddo
>
> As Francois said the Sabot is a genuine paved climb.
>  I rode it in
> 20001,2002.  The road conditions are below average
> but rideable  with
> loose gravel in middle of road for a large part and
> quite narrow and
> when I rode a small section of stones in 2 places.
> I rode with light
> tyres.  I stayed near there and a guy there said the
> Sabot road
> surface had been improved in 2003.  Another climb in
> that area which
> he recommended was the road turning left towards
> Rissiou rocks before
> reaching Vaujany from Allemond/Pouchery/lePerrier.
> On IGN this is
> not named except for title Roche Grande but has
> height documented as
> 1707m.
>
> I understand that one site ranks the Sabot as the
> 'hardest' climb in
> France.
>
> By the way I can't understand why everybody uses
> Michelin maps.  IGN
> to my mind are far better maps showing detailed
> gradients etc.
>
> The top 10 climbs listed are quite useful  but it
> seems there are 2
> different approaches slection of steepest or longest
> climbs eg your
> preference of Spandelles to Tourmalet.  Maybe there
> are 2 different
> things being measured anaerobic or aerobic
> requirements which can be
> combined. However I'd guess steepness isn't as
> important as
> denivellation because very low gears can be used.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
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>
>


__________________________________
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Thanks for the information.  Michelin maps do seem to miss many small
roads.  Anyone know where IGN maps are available?

JHS

-----Original Message-----
From: mjbflr [mailto:mjbflr@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:29 PM
To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [kom_] Re: Sabotage


--- In kom_@yahoogroups.com, "luddo_oh" <luddo@s...> wrote:
> I was looking for the conditions of the road from Vaujany to col du
> Sabot. On the Michelin map it is still a dotted line.

Hi Luddo

As Francois said the Sabot is a genuine paved climb.  I rode it in
20001,2002.  The road conditions are below average but rideable  with
loose gravel in middle of road for a large part and quite narrow and
when I rode a small section of stones in 2 places.  I rode with light
tyres.  I stayed near there and a guy there said the Sabot road
surface had been improved in 2003.  Another climb in that area which
he recommended was the road turning left towards Rissiou rocks before
reaching Vaujany from Allemond/Pouchery/lePerrier.  On IGN this is
not named except for title Roche Grande but has height documented as
1707m.

I understand that one site ranks the Sabot as the 'hardest' climb in
France.

By the way I can't understand why everybody uses Michelin maps.  IGN
to my mind are far better maps showing detailed gradients etc.

The top 10 climbs listed are quite useful  but it seems there are 2
different approaches slection of steepest or longest climbs eg your
preference of Spandelles to Tourmalet.  Maybe there are 2 different
things being measured anaerobic or aerobic requirements which can be
combined. However I'd guess steepness isn't as important as
denivellation because very low gears can be used.

Mike



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Hi Francois and Luddo,

> > From Vaujany, if i remember correctly, it is paved all the way to
> the top.
> > Of course Bd'O -> Vaujany is a well travelled road.
>
> I was looking for the conditions of the road from Vaujany to col du
> Sabot. On the Michelin map it is still a dotted line.
>
> According to the OCD webpage:
> "The road to this col was apparently surfaced for the first time in
> 1999, when it was used in the women's Tour de France"

the women's Tour de France will be riding up it again tomorrow,
although I'm not sure how far up they will stop - the banners on the
climb in July talked about "Vaujany". If I remember correctly  Mike
Fletcher told me it was surfaced all the way to the top on the
Vaujany side.

Brian

--- In kom_@yahoogroups.com, "luddo_oh" <luddo@s...> wrote:
> I was looking for the conditions of the road from Vaujany to col du
> Sabot. On the Michelin map it is still a dotted line.

Hi Luddo

As Francois said the Sabot is a genuine paved climb.  I rode it in
20001,2002.  The road conditions are below average but rideable  with
loose gravel in middle of road for a large part and quite narrow and
when I rode a small section of stones in 2 places.  I rode with light
tyres.  I stayed near there and a guy there said the Sabot road
surface had been improved in 2003.  Another climb in that area which
he recommended was the road turning left towards Rissiou rocks before
reaching Vaujany from Allemond/Pouchery/lePerrier.  On IGN this is
not named except for title Roche Grande but has height documented as
1707m.

I understand that one site ranks the Sabot as the 'hardest' climb in
France.

By the way I can't understand why everybody uses Michelin maps.  IGN
to my mind are far better maps showing detailed gradients etc.

The top 10 climbs listed are quite useful  but it seems there are 2
different approaches slection of steepest or longest climbs eg your
preference of Spandelles to Tourmalet.  Maybe there are 2 different
things being measured anaerobic or aerobic requirements which can be
combined. However I'd guess steepness isn't as important as
denivellation because very low gears can be used.

Mike

I agree.  Ullrich can climb with the best and is possibly the best tt'ist.
He suffers from poor timing, in that Lance rides the TdF.  Bettini has the
talent to climb well and the sprint to take the line.  Both palmares are
impressive.  I think in a couple of years Vinokourov could surpass both,
however.  He seems to have the goods needed.

Nate


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Simon" <lycra_boy_1968@...>
Reply-To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [kom_] The best all round rider
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:16:55 -0000

All the talk about the 5 tours club has prompted lots of debate about
who was the best ever.  Most people agree it is Merckx.

But who is the best all round rider riding in the peloton now?

My vote goes to either Ulrich or Bettini.

What does everyone else think?



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_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

All the talk about the 5 tours club has prompted lots of debate about
who was the best ever.  Most people agree it is Merckx.

But who is the best all round rider riding in the peloton now?

My vote goes to either Ulrich or Bettini.

What does everyone else think?

>I cycled from Argeles-gazost to the aubiusque, back to the soulor
>and than up spandelles and down to Argeles. This was a small
>but paved road. There were some putholls, so be carefull going down.
>
>I didn't went up the col de couradque. It doesn't look very hard
>http://www.salite.ch/couraduque.htm
>
>Accoording to this webpage the road is still unpaved.
>http://uk.geocities.com/cols_r_us/couraduque.htm
>

Thanks. That is just what I was looking for. Now I'll have to come back and try
it.

Karol

==============================
Karol E. Zielonko Jr.
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company

If you have me in your address book please configure the entry to indicate that
I prefer to receive plain text.

Luddo was saying:

And I have still to go back to Bolzano to try another time the
>rafensteiner bergstrasse (average 20%, max 33%). With my recumbent i
>didn't succeed.

----
I have the solution for you: modify the recumbent so that you can ride
backwards :o))
F

> I wrote something about the col du sabot in 2001(?).
> We took the car to the top and went for a walk with sights over the
lac de
> grandmaison (CdF).
> I am not sure whether you could get there directly from AdH on a
mountain bike.
> From Vaujany, if i remember correctly, it is paved all the way to
the top.
> Of course Bd'O -> Vaujany is a well travelled road.

I was looking for the conditions of the road from Vaujany to col du
Sabot. On the Michelin map it is still a dotted line.

According to the OCD webpage:
"The road to this col was apparently surfaced for the first time in
1999, when it was used in the women's Tour de France"

> How about a profile?
>
> http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/gorge/2922/

On paper it looks pretty hard (1290 height difference in 14,5 k)
Ok, it is not a zoncolan or mortirolo, but it still looks nice to me.
And I have still to go back to Bolzano to try another time the
rafensteiner bergstrasse (average 20%, max 33%). With my recumbent i
didn't succeed.

Cheers

Luddo

I cycled from Argeles-gazost to the aubiusque, back to the soulor
and than up spandelles and down to Argeles. This was a small
but paved road. There were some putholls, so be carefull going down.

I didn't went up the col de couradque. It doesn't look very hard
http://www.salite.ch/couraduque.htm

Accoording to this webpage the road is still unpaved.
http://uk.geocities.com/cols_r_us/couraduque.htm

If somebody needs a map check out
http://www.viamichelin.com

cheers

Luddo

Thanks François,

I have the Michelin 234 and it indicated an unpaved road (solid line paired
with a dashed line) which, along with the impending downpour, was why
I chickened out. However maps can get out of date and all unpaved roads
are not created equal; some are quite ridable on a
road bike and some are so bad they require walking. Just trying to
find out if anyone's done this particular stretch.

Karol

----- Original Message -----
From: "Francois Siohan" <francois.siohan@...>
To: <kom_@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: [kom_] Re: it does not rank in my top 10


Does anyone know if the stretch from the Spandelles to the Couraduque is
paved and
>if not how bad the road is? I'd like to keep that one on my to do list.
>
>Karol

Hi Karol,
according to the 12 th edition of the Michelin map No  85 (1984/85), the
pavement was poor at the time.
Cheers


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Does anyone know if the stretch from the Spandelles to the Couraduque is
paved and
>if not how bad the road is? I'd like to keep that one on my to do list.
>
>Karol

Hi Karol,
according to the 12 th edition of the Michelin map No  85 (1984/85), the
pavement was poor at the time.
Cheers
François

When I climbed Soulor/Aubisque from Argeles-Gazost I almost did the return trip
by descending the D126 from the Soulor to the
western base of the Spandelles, climbing the Spandelle, descending the other
side and continuing up the Couraduque and finally
descending back to the D918 and back to A-G. I whimped out because I wasn't sure
how much of it was paved and it was threatening
rain. Dumb move.(It did end up pouring though.) Does anyone know if the stretch
from the Spandelles to the Couraduque is paved and
if not how bad the road is? I'd like to keep that one on my to do list.

Karol

----- Original Message -----
From: "luddo_oh" <luddo@...>
To: <kom_@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:44 AM
Subject: [kom_] Re: it does not rank in my top 10


--- In kom_@yahoogroups.com, "mjbflr" <mjbflr@y...> wrote:
> What's the Spandelles like?  I rode the Soulor from that valley
> (which is quite spectacular)altho the woman I was riding with was
> intent on riding the Spandelles.

It seems my message from yesterdag didn't came through.  Here it is
again.

The Spandelles is a killer. Harder than Aubisque or Tourmalet. But
short and with some steep sections and almost flat sections.

average 8,4%, total 10,1 km
http://www.salite.ch/spandell1.htm

For some pictures see my webpage
http://home.wanadoo.nl/luddo/Spain2002/index.htm

> Where are Bonaigua and Route des lacs located?

Routes des lacs is a road to three little lakes. (lac d'aumer,lac de
cap de long, lac oredon). Starting from st lary soulan.
http://www.salite.ch/capde.htm
http://www.salite.ch/aumer.htm

Very nice and remote climb. Not too difficult.

Bonaigua is one of the major passes between spain and France (Vielha-
Esteri d'aneau). Not too hard but a pleasant ride with lot of hairpins

http://www.salite.ch/bonaigua.htm

For my dutch report and some pictures see
http://home.wanadoo.nl/luddo/Spanje/spanje.htm

A nice but very hard climb with sections above 20% is the climb to
aigues tortes from espot to the Llac de Sant Maurici

On my webpage I have started some dicussions about nice climbs.
See http://www.geocities.com/Baja/2572/index.html

Next week I am going to cycle in the alpes.
Does anybody know if the col de sabot from bourg d'oisans is paved?

cheers

Luddo






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>Next week I am going to cycle in the alpes.
>Does anybody know if the col de sabot from bourg d'oisans is paved?
>
>cheers
>
>Luddo
--------

I wrote something about the col du sabot in 2001(?).
We took the car to the top and went for a walk with sights over the lac de
grandmaison (CdF).
I am not sure whether you could get there directly from AdH on a mountain bike.

From Vaujany, if i remember correctly, it is paved all the way to the top.
Of course Bd'O -> Vaujany is a well travelled road.
How about a profile?

http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/gorge/2922/

Cheers
François

--- In kom_@yahoogroups.com, "mjbflr" <mjbflr@y...> wrote:
> What's the Spandelles like?  I rode the Soulor from that valley
> (which is quite spectacular)altho the woman I was riding with was
> intent on riding the Spandelles.

It seems my message from yesterdag didn't came through.  Here it is
again.

The Spandelles is a killer. Harder than Aubisque or Tourmalet. But
short and with some steep sections and almost flat sections.

average 8,4%, total 10,1 km
http://www.salite.ch/spandell1.htm

For some pictures see my webpage
http://home.wanadoo.nl/luddo/Spain2002/index.htm

> Where are Bonaigua and Route des lacs located?

Routes des lacs is a road to three little lakes. (lac d'aumer,lac de
cap de long, lac oredon). Starting from st lary soulan.
http://www.salite.ch/capde.htm
http://www.salite.ch/aumer.htm

Very nice and remote climb. Not too difficult.

Bonaigua is one of the major passes between spain and France (Vielha-
Esteri d'aneau). Not too hard but a pleasant ride with lot of hairpins

http://www.salite.ch/bonaigua.htm

For my dutch report and some pictures see
http://home.wanadoo.nl/luddo/Spanje/spanje.htm

A nice but very hard climb with sections above 20% is the climb to
aigues tortes from espot to the Llac de Sant Maurici

On my webpage I have started some dicussions about nice climbs.
See http://www.geocities.com/Baja/2572/index.html

Next week I am going to cycle in the alpes.
Does anybody know if the col de sabot from bourg d'oisans is paved?

cheers

Luddo

Just back from my little trip.
The last climb on the granfondo del alto adige mentioned by Olivier Huts
looked pretty innocuous on the race profile, certainly not as impressive as
the passo Giovo (2099 m) or the passo Pennes (2215m).
What is 8.5 km and 500m uphill? nothing to worry about.

Well it was hell. I don't know how you can gain only 500m if you climb
constantly at 16% - or so it seemed - over 6 of those 8.5 km from the
"osteria dei turisti" and the "auna di sopra". I had to zig-zag my 38:25
all the way up.

Giovo from san leonardo is a very pleasant climb.
Pennes from Vipiteno is hard but manageable, but that auna di sopra was a
killer. If there are only 500m uphill, they are the slowest i have ever
ridden .

--
next day i drove to the Stelvio. Very impressive scenery, with the famous
48 turns. Then i went down by bike to Bormio to climb the other side. That
Bormio side, 21 km long and about 1540m uphill is very tame by comparison,
not as spectacular. Except for a short 13-14% stretch it is no monster. the
advantage is that the road is wide, well paved and has little traffic, the
exact opposite of the other side.
Need i say that it was hot?

After lunch at the top, i went down the third route which leads into
Switzerland. About 4 km down towards Bormio, you take a right turn and
immediately enter Switzerland at the Umbrail pass ( 2510m or so). Then a
few km later you have a 3 km dirt road stretch, looks manageable on a road
bike.

later yesterday, after sleeping on the slopes of the Susten some distance
up from Wasser to get away from the heat, i reached the top of Susten at 9
am. At 2224 m a.s.l the temp. was already 19°C!!!

On the way down, around 1700m a.s.l. i found a nice grassy spot with some
shade to leave the car and left for Grindelwald.

Between Innertkirchen and meiringen, i took the left turn in the
Rosenlauital that leads to the gross Scheidegg (about 680 m to 1962 or
1982m over 16.7 km, with 3km almost flat).
Hardly any traffic, just the Post office buses, as cars/motor vehicles are
not allowed in the middle part of the ride.

Just one word to describe that ride : FABULOUS. An absolute must.  Then i
went down to Grindelwald but that part i already knew, and back to the
car.I better stop now.

Rosenlauital is definitely in my top ten.
For Stelvio, i'll have to go back and do the Gomagoi side on a bicycle like
everybody else.
  <

>Francois, what would be your top 10?
>
>Maybe everybody could make his list and publish it here with some
>motivation?
>Top 10 in most important country*,
>Top 10 in own continent,
>Top 10 ever (for those who travel a lot)
>
>Feel free to improvise!
>
>* as I live in Holland, a own country list would be very short.
>
>Tailwinds,
>
>Pierre

Bonjour Francois,
> Today i went to climb the Sanetsch. It was nice, not too hot,
actually cool
> at the top. I had heard so much about the tunnels that i got a
light. But
> it is not necessary (anymore?) There are 3 tunnels, two very short
and one
> 800m long, but lit.
The lighting must be a recent feature, the 800m long tunnel was pitch
dark when I rode it three years ago. What I really liked about
Sanetsch is that only cyclists and pedestrians can get down to Gsteig
(thanks to the cable car).

Brian

--- In kom_@yahoogroups.com, Luddo Oh <luddo@s...> wrote:
> Pyrenees: Col des spandelles, Port de Gavarnie, Bonaigua
> and Route des lacs

Hi Luddo
What's the Spandelles like?  I rode the Soulor from that valley
(which is quite spectacular)altho the woman I was riding with was
intent on riding the Spandelles.

Where are Bonaigua and Route des lacs located?

Mike

Hi,

Climbing is great. And listing climbs is also nice.

At the moment my all time favourites are the following:
1. Tre Cime di Lavaredo, Italy (Dolomites)
Very short but steep (average rise of 15% over 3 miles) one of the finest
views.
2. Sognefjell, Norway (Jotunheimen)
  From summer to winter: beginning at sea level and ending on a plateau in a
snowy world.
3. Townes pass, USA (Deathvalley)
Not extremely steep but the hot weather can make it hard. Views down in
death valley are great.
Also nice is the nearby Witney Portal road from Lone Pine.
4. Col d'Iseran (France)
  From the south side. The cold can make it really hard.
5. Masca , Spain (Tenerife)
Extremly steep and overwhelming nature (feels like cycling in south america).
6. Tour of three passes Furka-Nufenen-Gotthard. Switzerland
glaciers, in 120 km more than 3000 meters height difference.
7. Gavia (Italy)
I will always remember the TV shots during the Giro on the Gavia in the
snow. Pretty nice from
the south side with some nice views on the Adamello peaks.
8. Grossglockner (Austria)
Typically mountain world with farming land, woods and rocks with snow at
the top
9. Valdeon - Cain- Picos de Europa, Northern Spain.
Very streneous with some steep inclines (> 18%). Beautiful scenery
10. Blockhaus (2140 m) from lettomanopello (Italy, abruzzo)

Other climbs "bubbeling under" but nice to mention are:
Pyrenees: Col des spandelles, Port de Gavarnie, Bonaigua and Route des lacs
Switzerland: Albula pass, Grosse Scheideegg, Klausenpass, Pragelpass
Corsica: Col de bavella
Canary islands: Roques de los Muchachos on La Palma, Boca de Tauce on Tenerife,
Barranco de Guayadeque on Gran Canaria
Norway: Lysebotn, Turtago, Aurlandsvangen-Laerdal, Rallerveien
Italy: Nigra, Rombo, Spluga, Fedaia

Happy climbing

Luddo

   ---   __o         ----  o
   --    \ L)      -----  _\L'/\-%
     - (O)/(O)      ---  (O)   (o)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS
     http://www.geocities.com/Baja/2572
    All mountain goats of the world unite
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Here is a start, my top ten is based on my level of suffering endured either
as a result of fatigue, hunger knock or wrong gears!  I could draw up a list
based on scenery or my enjoyment of the climb but due to a particularly hard
time these have stayed in my mind the most! I haven't travelled with the
bike too far so it's fairly limited.

France:  Izoard - Hunger knock
France:  Croix de Fer - Hunger knock
Italy:  Gavia - Sudden snow & hunger knock
France: Alpe d'Huez - Fatigue
England: Hard Knott Pass - Gearing
England: Wrinose Pass - Gearing
England: Winnats Pass - Raced up, fatigue
France: Joux-Plane - Fatigue
France: Galibier from Telegraphe side - Fatigue
France: Col du Granon - Fatigue

Funny how the hunger knock days prove to stay in the mind!
Darren


     -----Original Message-----
     From: Pierre Noiret [mailto:pnoiret@...]
     Sent: 01 August 2003 21:32
     To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
     Subject: [kom_] it does not rank in my top 10


     Francois, what would be your top 10?

     Maybe everybody could make his list and publish it here with some
     motivation?
     Top 10 in most important country*,
     Top 10 in own continent,
     Top 10 ever (for those who travel a lot)

     Feel free to improvise!

     * as I live in Holland, a own country list would be very short.

     Tailwinds,

     Pierre


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Francois, what would be your top 10?

Maybe everybody could make his list and publish it here with some
motivation?
Top 10 in most important country*,
Top 10 in own continent,
Top 10 ever (for those who travel a lot)

Feel free to improvise!

* as I live in Holland, a own country list would be very short.

Tailwinds,

Pierre

>made it in Le Cycle of august.
>
>Look at page 87 to see my role-model.
>
>Tailwinds,
>
>Pierre
>(whose crankset is on page 34)
---------
Merci pour la publicité ;o))

Yesterday I decided i would take the day off at work today, not because it
is the swiss national holiday ( we work here on that day, we are above such
trivialities) but because i felt sort of burnt out.

I sure was, when i got home i saw that i had left the door wide open, and i
mean wide open, when leaving for work!

Nothing had been touched, well it is switzerland after all.

Today i went to climb the Sanetsch. It was nice, not too hot, actually cool
at the top. I had heard so much about the tunnels that i got a light. But
it is not necessary (anymore?) There are 3 tunnels, two very short and one
800m long, but lit. The place is far more popular with drivers than
cyclists , saw  only 3 other guys on bikes.
The road is pretty good.The scenery is nice, but it does not rank in my top 10.

Thanks to Olivier for the info about Adige, i have not been able to contact
the organizers, their advertised phone number is not valid!

Cheers
François

Hi guys,

I vaguely remember I promised someone I'd post the dates on which
some French cols are closed to cars from 9.00 to 11.00.
Here they are:
Col de Pommerol/Fromagère (1081 m) 25 august
Col de Lebraut (1110 m) 26 auguist
Col du Noyer (1664 m) 27 august
Col de L'Izoard (2361 m) 28 august
Col du Granon (2413 m)29 august

If you happen to be in the neighbourhood, enjoy.

Tailwinds,

Pierre

made it in Le Cycle of august.

Look at page 87 to see my role-model.

Tailwinds,

Pierre
(whose crankset is on page 34)

OKay okay, you are all right about Mayo on Luz Ardiden.

My question was designed to stimulate discussion and wonder whether
he had lost a 4th place through his celebrations.

I'm backing Jan for the rainbow jersey this year in Hamilton

--- In kom_@yahoogroups.com, "Nate Morgenstern" <nmorgenstern@h...>
wrote:
> Mayo attacked first on Luz Ardiden
> Lance counter attacked to pass him
> Boy waving musette bag topples Lance
> Mayo rides into Lance and falls
> Jan barely avoids Mayo
> Mayo gets up and is pushed along by spectator
> Lance gets up and repositions chain
> Chasing group passes
> Rubiera slows to wait for Lance
> Team car stops and mechanic pushes Lance
> Rubiera tows Lance past Mayo
> Mayo latches on behind Lance
> Lance stands and right foot unclips
> Mayo barely avoids Lance and then goes around him
> Rubiera tows Lance up to slow riding lead group
> Rubiera goes to front to set pace for Lance in Lead goup
> Mayo attacks
> Lance counter attacks and leaves everyone
> Jan chases and only Mayo and Zubeldia hang on
> In the last 100 meters both E-E riders go around Jan
> Jan hangs on and is able to pip Zubeldia for third
>
> After being towed for a few km's, without the stage as prize, and
minutes
> separating their time from Vino in 3rd and Basso/Tyler in 6th/7th
the 8
> bonus seconds only brought Mayo closer to surpassing his teammate.
That it
> was in the heat of battle is ludicrous as both Mayo and Zubeldia
had plenty
> of time to think about it while sucking wheel behind Jan.  Had they
traded
> pulls during the chase to catch Lance, one could make the heat of
battle
> argument, but their action IMO was in poor taste.
>
> Nate
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Darren Earp <darren.earp@i...>
> Reply-To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
> To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [kom_] Iban Mayo
> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:09:02 +0100
>
> Sarah, I agree with you on this one and correct me if I'm wrong but
didn't
> Mayo also start attacking as everyone else was waiting for Lance to
come
> back after his fall?
> Darren
>
>
>      -----Original Message-----
>      From: Sarah Burke [mailto:maillotpois@y...]
>
>
>      I was irritated at both Mayo and Zubeldia for trying
>      to pip Ullrich in the Pyrenees.  Mayo might have
>      gotten the extra time at AdH if he'd hammered, but the
>      end result (Tyler 4th) was the right one!
>
>
>
>
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> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
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Mayo attacked first on Luz Ardiden
Lance counter attacked to pass him
Boy waving musette bag topples Lance
Mayo rides into Lance and falls
Jan barely avoids Mayo
Mayo gets up and is pushed along by spectator
Lance gets up and repositions chain
Chasing group passes
Rubiera slows to wait for Lance
Team car stops and mechanic pushes Lance
Rubiera tows Lance past Mayo
Mayo latches on behind Lance
Lance stands and right foot unclips
Mayo barely avoids Lance and then goes around him
Rubiera tows Lance up to slow riding lead group
Rubiera goes to front to set pace for Lance in Lead goup
Mayo attacks
Lance counter attacks and leaves everyone
Jan chases and only Mayo and Zubeldia hang on
In the last 100 meters both E-E riders go around Jan
Jan hangs on and is able to pip Zubeldia for third

After being towed for a few km's, without the stage as prize, and minutes
separating their time from Vino in 3rd and Basso/Tyler in 6th/7th the 8
bonus seconds only brought Mayo closer to surpassing his teammate.  That it
was in the heat of battle is ludicrous as both Mayo and Zubeldia had plenty
of time to think about it while sucking wheel behind Jan.  Had they traded
pulls during the chase to catch Lance, one could make the heat of battle
argument, but their action IMO was in poor taste.

Nate


----Original Message Follows----
From: Darren Earp <darren.earp@...>
Reply-To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [kom_] Iban Mayo
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:09:02 +0100

Sarah, I agree with you on this one and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't
Mayo also start attacking as everyone else was waiting for Lance to come
back after his fall?
Darren


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Sarah Burke [mailto:maillotpois@...]


      I was irritated at both Mayo and Zubeldia for trying
      to pip Ullrich in the Pyrenees.  Mayo might have
      gotten the extra time at AdH if he'd hammered, but the
      end result (Tyler 4th) was the right one!



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