Hi Mike,
Wheels having a tendency to be round, it would seem to me that putting
books under the front wheel would only increase the proportion of the
weight on the rear wheel and slighly increase the friction, but in no way
simulate a hill.
However it would simulate gaining weight very accurately :o)
Cheers
François



>Hi Alpo
>
>I find just trying to keep up with the chihuahua is hard enough on
>steep hills.
>
>Then there's the PowerJog fitted with a bike that Chris used ... but
>with video to derive optimal position.  Richard said earlier he just
>put books under front wheel on Tacx.
>
>Mike
>
>>
>> Hmm...
>> Shouldn't you go to some sports research institute where they have
>> big motorized treadmill for runners?
>> Then just adjust pace and gradient, measure effort and find out
>> optimal gradient. Has anyone tried this?
>>
>> Alpo
>> (just visit www.alpo.com)

Hi Alpo

I find just trying to keep up with the chihuahua is hard enough on
steep hills.

Then there's the PowerJog fitted with a bike that Chris used ... but
with video to derive optimal position.  Richard said earlier he just
put books under front wheel on Tacx.

Mike

>
> Hmm...
> Shouldn't you go to some sports research institute where they have
> big motorized treadmill for runners?
> Then just adjust pace and gradient, measure effort and find out
> optimal gradient. Has anyone tried this?
>
> Alpo
> (just visit www.alpo.com)

--- In kom_@y..., Francois Siohan <francois.siohan@c...> wrote:

> I have thought of a way in which - even at age 61 - i can still do
better
> than Alessandro Forni. Go to my local store which has a wide and
not too
> steep inclined plane for customers to reach the second level. Cover
the
> anti-slip metal with an appropriate material and ride my bike non
stop on
> it. I would never need to go down, just up.The slope is known
precisely and
> so is the adjustable velocity of the inclined plane. No air
resistance as i
> stay in place as i "go up", etc.
>

Hmm...
Shouldn't you go to some sports research institute where they have
big motorized treadmill for runners?
Then just adjust pace and gradient, measure effort and find out
optimal gradient. Has anyone tried this?

Alpo
(just visit www.alpo.com)

April wrote:
> actually the link I supplied was not the one I thought it was. It
should
> be http://guide.supereva.it/ciclismo/interventi/2001/12/81166.shtml
> As you can see, the 2002 dates are there, and they are organized by
region.
Very complete, and an impressive list of other links too. It looks
like he updates the calendar in January every year.

> P.S. Brian, I would love to try the Barbara Lowrie!
Great! Just let me know when you feel like it, sometime well before
Easter.

and Federico wrote:
>The most famous Granfondo like the Maratona , 9 colli, Otztaler,
>5 terre,Campagnolo, 10 colli have fixed dates.
>Fede
Fantastic. So you will bet a pair of Michelin Axial Pros that you can
predict the dates of the first five of your list in 2004 ?-) I don't
think so. Just to give an example, the Nove Colli race is usually the
third Sunday of May but was the fourth Sunday in 1999, 1998 and 1994.

Brian

Curious. Why is everyone saying "was". Is he dead? By the details he would
be 38 years old now.

Karol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Tomlin" <b_tomlin@...>
To: <kom_@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 3:42 PM
Subject: [kom_] Re: Climbing record


> Hi Mike,
> thanks for the detail, and please do put up that report. This guy was
> a monster, especially if he was neither using a disc nor exploiting
> traffic draft. I can easily believe that he didn't use an aero-helmet
> for 24 hours, half an hour is quite enough for most of us...
> Brian
>
> > > Do you know more about Wilkinson's ride? Did he rest at all? Was
> he
> > > riding on normal roads? Without traffic? 840km is 35km/h average!
> >
> > Hi Brian
> >
> > Andy (I wrongly wrote Arthur) Wilkinson was a real heavyweight in
> the
> > achievement sense.  With his 24hr ride in 1997 he held 50mile,
> > 100mile, 12hr,24hr UK timetrial records at 33yrs old:-
> > 50m  - 80km  =1'37'26' = 49.24kph
> > 100m - 160km =3'27'39' = 46.23kph
> > 12hr - 300.27m - 480.43km = 40kph
> > 24hr - 525.332m - 840km = 35kph (266m in 12hr, last 103.322 in
> 4h52,
> > last 15m at 33.65kph)
> > He rode 4'42 in 4000m pursuit. Originally a road racer, liking
> > hills.  He previously held end-to-end record before Gethin Butler
> > broke it last year.  So speed-decline charts for distance can be
> > derived from his times.
> >
> > He rode his 24hr record in Mersey Roads 24, which Ivo rode in 2000
> > and 1996(534km, 536km).  There was some rain and wind at the start
> > and the nature of such a course is that there is no overall wind
> > assistance.  He's not reported as stopping and he stepped up speed
> in
> > night altho his main opponents Gethin Butler(472m),Brian Walker
> (483m)
> > had a number of stops and broke. But his 12h, 20h, 23h splits show
> > very even ride.
> >
> > I'm not familiar with course but it would be fairly but not ultra-
> > fast, some undulating hills, and with a lowish traffic flow.  Ivo
> > reported busy in places tho traffic not annoying and minor
> annoyances
> > on finishing circuit. There were temporary traffic lights crossed 3
> > times in 1997.  Roger Hughes has ridden 12hr version of the course.
> >
> > Wilkinson rode a Giant monoque, but with no disc or tri-spokes.  He
> > didn't wear an aero helmet.  I believe he used to ride CX tyres.
> He
> > was sponsored ('pro') in 1997 so he would have top equipment.
> >
> > In the Summer 2002 issue of Audax mag he's shown in an audax 'Dales
> > Grimpeur' climbing Park Rash - a 25% gradient - on mtb, but
> laughing
> > and enjoying himself with team-mate who is suffering.
> >
> > His 24hr ride seems the peak of his career and one of major cycling
> > rides in UK over maybe last 15yrs.  I'll put up the 3 page report
> of
> > his ride on http://photos.yahoo.com/mjbflr tonight tomorrow morning
> > in the folder Records for a couple of days if you're interested in
> > reading about it.
> >
> > Mike
>
>
>
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>
>
>

Brian and Pierre,

actually the link I supplied was not the one I thought it was. It should
be http://guide.supereva.it/ciclismo/interventi/2001/12/81166.shtml

As you can see, the 2002 dates are there, and they are organized by region.

There are lots of other events besides these, but most do not have
sites, such
as the Granfondo del Friuli and Oderzo-Falcade (both non-competitive,
fun, 2-day events). We often hear of them by word-of-mouth, brochures in
bike stores or picked up at other events, Cicloturismo magazine, etc. I
put them on my site when I find out about them.

April Pedersen Santinon

P.S. Brian, I would love to try the Barbara Lowrie!

The most famous Granfondo like the Maratona , 9 colli, Otztaler, 5 terre,
Campagnolo, 10 colli have fixed dates.
Fede
   Brian Tomlin <b_tomlin@...> ha scritto: Hi Pierre and April,

> >Is there a 2003 calendar of Granfondos out there
somewhere. "Granfondo.it"
> >only leads to the Maratona del Dolomites (sp?).
It's early to look for such information. It's not the fault of the
people who run internet sites, the fact is that Italian race
organisers are not yet used to fixing dates before Spring, although
that is changing fast.

> I 've found the most complete calendar on
http://pianetaciclismo.supereva.it/
> but it's still early to see any updates for 2003.
Hmm. It looks like that site bit off more than it could chew back in
2001 or so... and the spam from supereva doesn't help either. Pity,
because the ideas were good.

A summary of the big Granfondos that have already been announced:
May 1st: 10 Colli, Bologna (163/83km)
May 4th: Giro della Romagna, Lugo (150km, great food, non-competitive)
May 11th: Felice Gimondi, Bergamo (160/130km, unpleasant website)
May 18th: Nove Colli, Cesenatico (165/120km, the yearly exam for
Italian cyclists)
Jun 22nd: Campagnolo, Feltre (the toughest, but a new course?)
Jul 7th: Maratona dles Dolomites, Corvara (the most scenic)
Jul 20th: Pinarello, Treviso (210/130km, new courses)

If you are looking for something spectacular but not impossible then
I would go for the medium course of the Maratona - inscriptions will
be open from 1st November, don't wait many days after that. If you
prefer to turn up on the day, pay 5 Euros and enjoy good wine and
sausages at food stops, then the Giro della Romagna is for you.

April, good to hear you are heading back to form again! I've not made
any plans for next year yet but if you want to ride to Rifugio
Barbara Lowrie let me know.

Brian


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Pierre and April,

> >Is there a 2003 calendar of Granfondos out there
somewhere. "Granfondo.it"
> >only leads to the Maratona del Dolomites (sp?).
It's early to look for such information. It's not the fault of the
people who run internet sites, the fact is that Italian race
organisers are not yet used to fixing dates before Spring, although
that is changing fast.

> I 've found the most complete calendar on
http://pianetaciclismo.supereva.it/
> but it's still early to see any updates for 2003.
Hmm. It looks like that site bit off more than it could chew back in
2001 or so... and the spam from supereva doesn't help either. Pity,
because the ideas were good.

A summary of the big Granfondos that have already been announced:
May 1st: 10 Colli, Bologna (163/83km)
May 4th: Giro della Romagna, Lugo (150km, great food, non-competitive)
May 11th: Felice Gimondi, Bergamo (160/130km, unpleasant website)
May 18th: Nove Colli, Cesenatico (165/120km, the yearly exam for
Italian cyclists)
Jun 22nd: Campagnolo, Feltre (the toughest, but a new course?)
Jul 7th: Maratona dles Dolomites, Corvara (the most scenic)
Jul 20th: Pinarello, Treviso (210/130km, new courses)

If you are looking for something spectacular but not impossible then
I would go for the medium course of the Maratona - inscriptions will
be open from 1st November, don't wait many days after that. If you
prefer to turn up on the day, pay 5 Euros and enjoy good wine and
sausages at food stops, then the Giro della Romagna is for you.

April, good to hear you are heading back to form again! I've not made
any plans for next year yet but if you want to ride to Rifugio
Barbara Lowrie let me know.

Brian

Hi Mike,
thanks for the detail, and please do put up that report. This guy was
a monster, especially if he was neither using a disc nor exploiting
traffic draft. I can easily believe that he didn't use an aero-helmet
for 24 hours, half an hour is quite enough for most of us...
Brian

> > Do you know more about Wilkinson's ride? Did he rest at all? Was
he
> > riding on normal roads? Without traffic? 840km is 35km/h average!
>
> Hi Brian
>
> Andy (I wrongly wrote Arthur) Wilkinson was a real heavyweight in
the
> achievement sense.  With his 24hr ride in 1997 he held 50mile,
> 100mile, 12hr,24hr UK timetrial records at 33yrs old:-
> 50m  - 80km  =1'37'26' = 49.24kph
> 100m - 160km =3'27'39' = 46.23kph
> 12hr - 300.27m - 480.43km = 40kph
> 24hr - 525.332m - 840km = 35kph (266m in 12hr, last 103.322 in
4h52,
> last 15m at 33.65kph)
> He rode 4'42 in 4000m pursuit. Originally a road racer, liking
> hills.  He previously held end-to-end record before Gethin Butler
> broke it last year.  So speed-decline charts for distance can be
> derived from his times.
>
> He rode his 24hr record in Mersey Roads 24, which Ivo rode in 2000
> and 1996(534km, 536km).  There was some rain and wind at the start
> and the nature of such a course is that there is no overall wind
> assistance.  He's not reported as stopping and he stepped up speed
in
> night altho his main opponents Gethin Butler(472m),Brian Walker
(483m)
> had a number of stops and broke. But his 12h, 20h, 23h splits show
> very even ride.
>
> I'm not familiar with course but it would be fairly but not ultra-
> fast, some undulating hills, and with a lowish traffic flow.  Ivo
> reported busy in places tho traffic not annoying and minor
annoyances
> on finishing circuit. There were temporary traffic lights crossed 3
> times in 1997.  Roger Hughes has ridden 12hr version of the course.
>
> Wilkinson rode a Giant monoque, but with no disc or tri-spokes.  He
> didn't wear an aero helmet.  I believe he used to ride CX tyres.
He
> was sponsored ('pro') in 1997 so he would have top equipment.
>
> In the Summer 2002 issue of Audax mag he's shown in an audax 'Dales
> Grimpeur' climbing Park Rash - a 25% gradient - on mtb, but
laughing
> and enjoying himself with team-mate who is suffering.
>
> His 24hr ride seems the peak of his career and one of major cycling
> rides in UK over maybe last 15yrs.  I'll put up the 3 page report
of
> his ride on http://photos.yahoo.com/mjbflr tonight tomorrow morning
> in the folder Records for a couple of days if you're interested in
> reading about it.
>
> Mike

--- In kom_@y..., "Brian Tomlin" <b_tomlin@h...> wrote:

> Do you know more about Wilkinson's ride? Did he rest at all? Was he
> riding on normal roads? Without traffic? 840km is 35km/h average!

Hi Brian

Andy (I wrongly wrote Arthur) Wilkinson was a real heavyweight in the
achievement sense.  With his 24hr ride in 1997 he held 50mile,
100mile, 12hr,24hr UK timetrial records at 33yrs old:-
50m  - 80km  =1'37'26' = 49.24kph
100m - 160km =3'27'39' = 46.23kph
12hr - 300.27m - 480.43km = 40kph
24hr - 525.332m - 840km = 35kph (266m in 12hr, last 103.322 in 4h52,
last 15m at 33.65kph)
He rode 4'42 in 4000m pursuit. Originally a road racer, liking
hills.  He previously held end-to-end record before Gethin Butler
broke it last year.  So speed-decline charts for distance can be
derived from his times.

He rode his 24hr record in Mersey Roads 24, which Ivo rode in 2000
and 1996(534km, 536km).  There was some rain and wind at the start
and the nature of such a course is that there is no overall wind
assistance.  He's not reported as stopping and he stepped up speed in
night altho his main opponents Gethin Butler(472m),Brian Walker(483m)
had a number of stops and broke. But his 12h, 20h, 23h splits show
very even ride.

I'm not familiar with course but it would be fairly but not ultra-
fast, some undulating hills, and with a lowish traffic flow.  Ivo
reported busy in places tho traffic not annoying and minor annoyances
on finishing circuit. There were temporary traffic lights crossed 3
times in 1997.  Roger Hughes has ridden 12hr version of the course.

Wilkinson rode a Giant monoque, but with no disc or tri-spokes.  He
didn't wear an aero helmet.  I believe he used to ride CX tyres.  He
was sponsored ('pro') in 1997 so he would have top equipment.

In the Summer 2002 issue of Audax mag he's shown in an audax 'Dales
Grimpeur' climbing Park Rash - a 25% gradient - on mtb, but laughing
and enjoying himself with team-mate who is suffering.

His 24hr ride seems the peak of his career and one of major cycling
rides in UK over maybe last 15yrs.  I'll put up the 3 page report of
his ride on http://photos.yahoo.com/mjbflr tonight tomorrow morning
in the folder Records for a couple of days if you're interested in
reading about it.

Mike

For more information:
http://www.granfondo.com/links.html
Fede

  Pierre Noiret <pnoiret@...> wrote:Hi Brian,

Is there a 2003 calendar of Granfondos out there somewhere. "Granfondo.it"
only leads to the Maratona del Dolomites (sp?).
L'Etape is very far from us this year, so we're considering one or two
Italian rides.
Scenic 130-150 kms rides are preffered.

Tailwinds,

Pierre



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Pierre,

>Is there a 2003 calendar of Granfondos out there somewhere. "Granfondo.it"
>only leads to the Maratona del Dolomites (sp?).
>L'Etape is very far from us this year, so we're considering one or two
>Italian rides.

I 've found the most complete calendar on http://pianetaciclismo.supereva.it/
but it's still early to see any updates for 2003.

The FCI site (I don't have the URL on hand)also lists those under its
auspices, but not all are (UDACE also sanctions some)

I also have a calendar on my site http://www.biciveneto.it/granfondo.htm
which lists all the granfondo/mediofondo/fondo rides in the tri-Veneto
regions (Veneto, Trentino, and Friuli). The only dates I know for sure
for 2003 are the GFs Campagnolo and Pinarello (the two biggies).

Let me know when you are coming down.

>Hope your back is going better!
Thanks so much. I started acupuncture in the beginning of Sept. and I
rode 1750 km that month, (and lost about 6-7 kg) so I am making great
progress. I am looking forward to next year.


April Pedersen Santinon

Hi Mike,
I stand corrected, thanks. Of course I was only repeating what the
Italian press claimed last year. I know that Alessandro did involve
the FCI to validate his 24 hour attempt, even though it was a bit odd
(riding different circuits at various times of the day, with a 1 hour
stop half way). Probably what happened is that he beat the Italian
record but not the World record. I guess he might also claim that his
record is different from the UK record in some way, I'll ask him. He
did use TT equipment, so no difference in that respect.

Do you know more about Wilkinson's ride? Did he rest at all? Was he
riding on normal roads? Without traffic? 840km is 35km/h average!

Brian

--- In kom_@y..., "mjbflr" <mjbflr@y...> wrote:
> --- In kom_@y..., "Brian Tomlin" <b_tomlin@h...> wrote:
> > He also has the record for distance (767km) in 24
> > hours. I don't think he would be interested in turning pro.
> > Brian
>
> Hi Brian
>
> He's not got the 24 hour record - this is 840km held by Arthur
> Wilkinson  who road this under time-trial conditions in 1997 in
UK.
> And even back in 1956 Thompson rode 774km for 24h in same time
trial
> conditions.  While his ride is commendable he didn't beat this
record
> and isn't homologue by official cycling bodies (I believe UK is
> accepted by US long distance association as well as UK time tria
> authorities).  Everybody appreciates Alessandro;s efffort
> particularly for hill-climb but that's no reason for a wrong claim
to
> be put forward for 24 hour record.
>
> Mike

pinarello.com lists 2 GF, one of them is : "Garanfondo of the desert"

ride safe

Tzachi

-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Noiret [mailto:pnoiret@...]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 12:48 PM
To: 'kom_@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [kom_] Granfondos 2003


Hi Brian,

Is there a 2003 calendar of Granfondos out there somewhere. "Granfondo.it"
only leads to the Maratona del Dolomites (sp?).
L'Etape is very far from us this year, so we're considering one or two
Italian rides.
Scenic 130-150 kms rides are preffered.

Tailwinds,

Pierre



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



USEFUL ADDRESSES
http://www.komcycling.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kom_ Members only area
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kom_/files/Policy%20Documents/ Policy file
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
kom_-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Brian,

Is there a 2003 calendar of Granfondos out there somewhere. "Granfondo.it"
only leads to the Maratona del Dolomites (sp?).
L'Etape is very far from us this year, so we're considering one or two
Italian rides.
Scenic 130-150 kms rides are preffered.

Tailwinds,

Pierre



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In kom_@y..., "Brian Tomlin" <b_tomlin@h...> wrote:
> He also has the record for distance (767km) in 24
> hours. I don't think he would be interested in turning pro.
> Brian

Hi Brian

He's not got the 24 hour record - this is 840km held by Arthur
Wilkinson  who road this under time-trial conditions in 1997 in UK.
And even back in 1956 Thompson rode 774km for 24h in same time trial
conditions.  While his ride is commendable he didn't beat this record
and isn't homologue by official cycling bodies (I believe UK is
accepted by US long distance association as well as UK time tria
authorities).  Everybody appreciates Alessandro;s efffort
particularly for hill-climb but that's no reason for a wrong claim to
be put forward for 24 hour record.

Mike

Wow. That is so nice.

Karol

==============================
Karol E. Zielonko Jr.
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company

If you have me in your address book please configure the entry to indicate that
I prefer to receive plain text.

Karol wrote:
>Someone commented that this fellow is an "under 23" but I missed whether he
>is a
>pro or an "amateur". Which one is he? Does anyone know him? Is he good
>enough to
>be picked up by a top team?
He's decidedly amateur, a student/cyclist with a passion for adventure who
just happens to race. He also has the record for distance (767km) in 24
hours. I don't think he would be interested in turning pro.

and Jeff wrote:
>www.cobaltmedia.com  I was fortunate enough to get a press pass on the last
>two days of the Championships
thanks for the great shots! If you want to become my favourite cycling
photographer next year then please catch the time-trialists while they are
working hard in aero-position.

Brian

_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!  Try MSN.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp

At Bedoin there is a roundabout near the Office du Tourisme.
Some 20 meter from that on the road to Ventoux there is a white line on the
road.

Check out http://www.alexpages.net/ for some Ventoux stories (sorry, in
Dutch)

Enjoy!

Pierre









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Great info!

Thanks a lot April, one more reason for going your way.
Hope your back is going better!

Tailwinds,

Pierre



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Francois, do you happen to know what would be good age group times for
>climbing Ventoux?  What would be a good time for a male in the 40-49 group
>or the 50-59 group?
>Also, do you know where the exact starting point would be?  I know where the
>finish is but I am not sure about the start.
>Given that I will now be able to spend more time in Bedoin, I am curious to
>find out so I will have a goal to aim for.
>Alan
-----------
Hi Alan,
I would like to give you a detailed answer but i won't have time until the
following week.
Cheers
François

Here a message I got from Alesandro
François:

>Yes, you're right. I was near to 2xEverest but I didn't get there... Maybe
>next time... I'm really happy of my result same and I'd like to take part
>to RATA 2003.
>Bye, Alessandro
>

Pierre asked,
>Isn't there an organisation in Italy doing this for Italian climbs?

There is a program called "Le Salite del Giro" (the Climbs of the Giro,
http://www.lesalitedelgiro.it/) in which permanent timing stations are
installed at the bottoms and tops of famous climbs used in the race. You
buy a membership card, and your name and code are entered into the
system. The card is placed near the timing devices upon starting and
finishing the climb. Then another station prints out a little
certificate with your time on it. The times are uploaded to a computer
and then to the website, so you can compare your time with others,
including the pros.

April Pedersen Santinon

Francois, do you happen to know what would be good age group times for
climbing Ventoux?  What would be a good time for a male in the 40-49 group
or the 50-59 group?
Also, do you know where the exact starting point would be?  I know where the
finish is but I am not sure about the start.
Given that I will now be able to spend more time in Bedoin, I am curious to
find out so I will have a goal to aim for.
Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: Francois Siohan [mailto:francois.siohan@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 7:09 AM
To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [kom_] Fwd: Climbing record


>best Times up l'Alpe d'Huez since 1986
>
>2001 Armstrong 38:05    Madeleine, Glandon
>1999 Guerini   41:10    Mont Cenis, Croix de fer
>1997 Pantani   36:55    none
>1995 pantani   36:50    Madeleine, Croix de fer
>1994 pantani   37:15    Ornon
>1992 chiapucci 43:19    galibier, Croix de fer
>1991 bugno     39:45    ornon
>1990 breukink  43:15    madeleine, glandon
>1989 delgado   42:15    galibier, Croix de fer
>1988 theunisse 43:50    madeleine, glandon
>1987 herrera   41:50    coq, laffrey
>1986 montoya   46:??    galibier, Croix de fer

I forgot to say that the passes names are the ones that the racers had to
climb before tackling l'Alpe d'huez.
François


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Does anyone know if this is available in English?
Also, in France I saw an incredibly evocative book about Eddy Merckx. It was
a large hard-back and was mainly full of black and white photos. I've
searched for it here (in England) but have only come across other Eddy
Merckx books. Anyone know of the book and if this too is printed English?
Thanks for the help.
Darren

-----Original Message-----
From: Francois Siohan [mailto:francois.siohan@...]
Sent: 24 October 2002 16:13
To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [kom_] Fwd: Climbing record


This excerpt i gave is from the book "Pouvez-vous gagner le tour" published
in 2002 by Antoine Vayer and Frédéric Portoleau. It is published by Polar
of heart rate fame. ISBN 2 - 913166-06-7


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Thanks for this François. This sounds like the same book a friend of mine
recently told me about, although he couldn't remember the name or other
details.
I'll check this out. May be worth buying?
Darren

-----Original Message-----
From: Francois Siohan [mailto:francois.siohan@...]
Sent: 24 October 2002 16:13
To: kom_@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [kom_] Fwd: Climbing record


This excerpt i gave is from the book "Pouvez-vous gagner le tour" published
in 2002 by Antoine Vayer and Frédéric Portoleau. It is published by Polar
of heart rate fame. ISBN 2 - 913166-06-7
They have quite a few climbs in there.

Those guys have been doing for years the same type of observations that i
have made, but on a grand scale.
They watch the videos, look at the maps and compute the power needed by the
racers.
From reading the book you can draw your own conclusion and see what is
staring at you right in the eyes.
After an improvement of the doping situation in 1999, it is now almost as
bad as it was in 1998, at least in the TdF, since we know that that was not
quite the case in the Giro 2002.
Vayer, by the way, was a trainer in Festina and stayed with Bassons thru
his ill-fated fight against doping. He is now a trainer with AlternatiV and
trains Moncoutié among others. So you know that Moncoutié is not about to
win the TdF any time soon.
Cheers
François



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Isn't there an organisation in Italy doing this for Italian climbs?

Pierre
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Darren Earp [mailto:darren.earp@...]
Verzonden: donderdag 24 oktober 2002 16:49
Aan: kom_@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: RE: [kom_] Fwd: Climbing record

This is an interesting post. Does anyone know if there is information
listing the fastest times over the big cols?
I've occasionally timed riders from point to point in realtime whilst
watching Eurosport live (wouldn't trust the tapespeed of video!!) but have
never found any stats available elsewhere.
Thanks,
Darren

>best Times up l'Alpe d'Huez since 1986
>
>2001 Armstrong 38:05    Madeleine, Glandon
>1999 Guerini   41:10    Mont Cenis, Croix de fer
>1997 Pantani   36:55    none
>1995 pantani   36:50    Madeleine, Croix de fer
>1994 pantani   37:15    Ornon
>1992 chiapucci 43:19    galibier, Croix de fer
>1991 bugno     39:45    ornon
>1990 breukink  43:15    madeleine, glandon
>1989 delgado   42:15    galibier, Croix de fer
>1988 theunisse 43:50    madeleine, glandon
>1987 herrera   41:50    coq, laffrey
>1986 montoya   46:??    galibier, Croix de fer


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This excerpt i gave is from the book "Pouvez-vous gagner le tour" published
in 2002 by Antoine Vayer and Frédéric Portoleau. It is published by Polar
of heart rate fame. ISBN 2 - 913166-06-7
They have quite a few climbs in there.

Those guys have been doing for years the same type of observations that i
have made, but on a grand scale.
They watch the videos, look at the maps and compute the power needed by the
racers.
From reading the book you can draw your own conclusion and see what is
staring at you right in the eyes.
After an improvement of the doping situation in 1999, it is now almost as
bad as it was in 1998, at least in the TdF, since we know that that was not
quite the case in the Giro 2002.
Vayer, by the way, was a trainer in Festina and stayed with Bassons thru
his ill-fated fight against doping. He is now a trainer with AlternatiV and
trains Moncoutié among others. So you know that Moncoutié is not about to
win the TdF any time soon.
Cheers
François




>This is an interesting post. Does anyone know if there is information
>listing the fastest times over the big cols?
>I've occasionally timed riders from point to point in realtime whilst
>watching Eurosport live (wouldn't trust the tapespeed of video!!) but have
>never found any stats available elsewhere.
>Thanks,
>Darren
>
>>best Times up l'Alpe d'Huez since 1986
>>
>>2001 Armstrong 38:05    Madeleine, Glandon
>>1999 Guerini   41:10    Mont Cenis, Croix de fer
>>1997 Pantani   36:55    none
>>1995 pantani   36:50    Madeleine, Croix de fer
>>1994 pantani   37:15    Ornon
>>1992 chiapucci 43:19    galibier, Croix de fer
>>1991 bugno     39:45    ornon
>>1990 breukink  43:15    madeleine, glandon
>>1989 delgado   42:15    galibier, Croix de fer
>>1988 theunisse 43:50    madeleine, glandon
>>1987 herrera   41:50    coq, laffrey
>>1986 montoya   46:??    galibier, Croix de fer
>
>
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>intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
>the system manager.
>This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
>MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
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>**********************************************************************
>
>
>
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>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kom_ Members only area
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>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>kom_-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

This is an interesting post. Does anyone know if there is information
listing the fastest times over the big cols?
I've occasionally timed riders from point to point in realtime whilst
watching Eurosport live (wouldn't trust the tapespeed of video!!) but have
never found any stats available elsewhere.
Thanks,
Darren

>best Times up l'Alpe d'Huez since 1986
>
>2001 Armstrong 38:05    Madeleine, Glandon
>1999 Guerini   41:10    Mont Cenis, Croix de fer
>1997 Pantani   36:55    none
>1995 pantani   36:50    Madeleine, Croix de fer
>1994 pantani   37:15    Ornon
>1992 chiapucci 43:19    galibier, Croix de fer
>1991 bugno     39:45    ornon
>1990 breukink  43:15    madeleine, glandon
>1989 delgado   42:15    galibier, Croix de fer
>1988 theunisse 43:50    madeleine, glandon
>1987 herrera   41:50    coq, laffrey
>1986 montoya   46:??    galibier, Croix de fer


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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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>best Times up l'Alpe d'Huez since 1986
>
>2001 Armstrong 38:05    Madeleine, Glandon
>1999 Guerini   41:10    Mont Cenis, Croix de fer
>1997 Pantani   36:55    none
>1995 pantani   36:50    Madeleine, Croix de fer
>1994 pantani   37:15    Ornon
>1992 chiapucci 43:19    galibier, Croix de fer
>1991 bugno     39:45    ornon
>1990 breukink  43:15    madeleine, glandon
>1989 delgado   42:15    galibier, Croix de fer
>1988 theunisse 43:50    madeleine, glandon
>1987 herrera   41:50    coq, laffrey
>1986 montoya   46:??    galibier, Croix de fer

I forgot to say that the passes names are the ones that the racers had to
climb before tackling l'Alpe d'huez.
François