I had this talk with a number of expert kite designers in the past

(kite designers with more than 15 years experiences, not 1 to 5 years

experience kite designers) and ask them why don't they give kite

flyers full control of the kite (i.e., be able to sheet out the kite

100% like in sailing - for those who DON'T KNOW, this is when we can

depower the kite %100 - and those who want to depower the kite 300%,

please talk to Stefano ;-).



The answers I got back that they don't trust kite flyers and afraid

that kite flyers would stall the kite and blame the designer for a bad

design.



So this trend seems to be persistence until today (the young designers

probably don't even know why it is designed this way),

kiteflyers/kitesurfers can only control the kite to a certain point

because kite designers don't trust our ability to keep the kite in the

air.



The kitesurfing/kitesnowboarding/kiteskiing company that can give 100%

control of the kite (or at least a larger percentage of it) may likely

create a new trend that may change our sport drastically.



Hung.

=== good point Hung Vu. When I was in Cabo Verde (Cape Verde) I tried

the ADVANCE kite which was similar to the SEASMIK which was similar to

some other French company as well.. It was a LEI kite with a half bridle

that could be sheeted out like a sail.. Basically you could sheet it out

100%...  Those kites never seemed to make it in the market because they

didn't scale well when you made them big. The biggest was a 6 m kite -

equivalent to a naish 9.0. Problem was you couldn't make them stiff

enough if you made them bigger...



I tried the advance kite - it was the 5.0 and it was pretty windy and

gusty - ideal conditions for that kite... And it flew ok and could be

depowered almost fully (I don't think you want total depower or the kite

will fall).. But ... I didn't really like the style with which it

flew... If you werent real good at dealing with the depower (fine tuning

all the time) you tended to loose power very easily... Of course I only

flew it twice and any kite you need some time to get adjusted to but the

market didn't respond to these kites either... Maybe we will get back to

them in the future ?



====





I had this talk with a number of expert kite designers in the past (kite

designers with more than 15 years experiences, not 1 to 5 years

experience kite designers) and ask them why don't they give kite flyers

full control of the kite (i.e., be able to sheet out the kite 100% like

in sailing - for those who DON'T KNOW, this is when we can depower the

kite %100 - and those who want to depower the kite 300%, please talk to

Stefano ;-).



The answers I got back that they don't trust kite flyers and afraid that

kite flyers would stall the kite and blame the designer for a bad

design.



So this trend seems to be persistence until today (the young designers

probably don't even know why it is designed this way),

kiteflyers/kitesurfers can only control the kite to a certain point

because kite designers don't trust our ability to keep the kite in the

air.



The kitesurfing/kitesnowboarding/kiteskiing company that can give 100%

control of the kite (or at least a larger percentage of it) may likely

create a new trend that may change our sport drastically.



Hung.











This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing



http://www.KiteHIGH.com

ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or

ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)

Em: support@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Stefano,



Didn't Seasmik made some good size kite (11.5 m2 or so probably the

same range as a 15 LEI)?



With some simple integrated bridle system, we may be able to make a

fully sheet out LEI...



The other advantage of a fully sheet out kite is that if you can sheet

out 100% then you don't need a safety leash as your front lines IS the

safety leash (full time too).



Hung.



--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano Rosso" <stefano.rosso@a...>

wrote:

> === good point Hung Vu. When I was in Cabo Verde (Cape Verde) I tried

> the ADVANCE kite which was similar to the SEASMIK which was similar to

> some other French company as well.. It was a LEI kite with a half bridle

> that could be sheeted out like a sail.. Basically you could sheet it out

> 100%...  Those kites never seemed to make it in the market because they

> didn't scale well when you made them big. The biggest was a 6 m kite -

> equivalent to a naish 9.0. Problem was you couldn't make them stiff

> enough if you made them bigger...

>

> I tried the advance kite - it was the 5.0 and it was pretty windy and

> gusty - ideal conditions for that kite... And it flew ok and could be

> depowered almost fully (I don't think you want total depower or the kite

> will fall).. But ... I didn't really like the style with which it

> flew... If you werent real good at dealing with the depower (fine tuning

> all the time) you tended to loose power very easily... Of course I only

> flew it twice and any kite you need some time to get adjusted to but the

> market didn't respond to these kites either... Maybe we will get back to

> them in the future ?

>

> ====

>

>

> I had this talk with a number of expert kite designers in the past (kite

> designers with more than 15 years experiences, not 1 to 5 years

> experience kite designers) and ask them why don't they give kite flyers

> full control of the kite (i.e., be able to sheet out the kite 100% like

> in sailing - for those who DON'T KNOW, this is when we can depower the

> kite %100 - and those who want to depower the kite 300%, please talk to

> Stefano ;-).

>

> The answers I got back that they don't trust kite flyers and afraid that

> kite flyers would stall the kite and blame the designer for a bad

> design.

>

> So this trend seems to be persistence until today (the young designers

> probably don't even know why it is designed this way),

> kiteflyers/kitesurfers can only control the kite to a certain point

> because kite designers don't trust our ability to keep the kite in the

> air.

>

> The kitesurfing/kitesnowboarding/kiteskiing company that can give 100%

> control of the kite (or at least a larger percentage of it) may likely

> create a new trend that may change our sport drastically.

>

> Hung.

>

>

>

>

>

> This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

>

> http://www.KiteHIGH.com

> ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or

> ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)

> Em: support@k...

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Stefano,



Didn't Seasmik made some good size kite (11.5 m2 or so probably the same

range as a 15 LEI)?



With some simple integrated bridle system, we may be able to make a

fully sheet out LEI...



The other advantage of a fully sheet out kite is that if you can sheet

out 100% then you don't need a safety leash as your front lines IS the

safety leash (full time too).



Hung.



==========



Unless I am mistaken... Seasmik for the larger kites made bridled foils

(not very depowerable)... The 11.5 was this type..

Seasmik did make a LEI that fully sheeted out. I have one.  But it was not a

sled it was basically a LEI single skin foil.  It used a bridle to flatten the

kite and prevent it from forming an arc as a sled does.  this is what

allowed it to fully depower.  A 2 line or 4 line sled shape cannot achieve 100%

depower unless the front lines can move from the wing tips to a point closer to

the center.  I experimented with this once with some

limited success a few years ago. I think it may have potential.



The biggest problem with the Seasmik design - from my experience was that there

was too little bar movement to go from no power to full power and too much bar

pressure when at full power.  I had some ideas for

correcting this but did not want to spend the money to fool with it.  I only

bought the Seasmik I have because I got a great deal on a closeout.  It was the

biggesst they had at the time and not big enough for me.  I

do like the kite on lwheels and snow though.  It is great to be able to depower

totally and on the fly.  You are right that a leash is unecesarry with this kite

Hung.  You can sheet out and fully depower on front lines

only and/or you can stall it and back it to the ground,  It is absolutely the

most fully controllable kite I have ever flown.  the only other that comes close

is the Revolution.



Steve

Carson City, Nevada, USA





9/16/2003 4:41:25 PM, "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@...> wrote:



>Stefano,

>

>Didn't Seasmik made some good size kite (11.5 m2 or so probably the

>same range as a 15 LEI)?

>

>With some simple integrated bridle system, we may be able to make a

>fully sheet out LEI...

>

>The other advantage of a fully sheet out kite is that if you can sheet

>out 100% then you don't need a safety leash as your front lines IS the

>safety leash (full time too).

>

>Hung.

>

>--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano Rosso" <stefano.rosso@a...>

>wrote:

>> === good point Hung Vu. When I was in Cabo Verde (Cape Verde) I tried

>> the ADVANCE kite which was similar to the SEASMIK which was similar to

>> some other French company as well.. It was a LEI kite with a half bridle

>> that could be sheeted out like a sail.. Basically you could sheet it out

>> 100%...  Those kites never seemed to make it in the market because they

>> didn't scale well when you made them big. The biggest was a 6 m kite -

>> equivalent to a naish 9.0. Problem was you couldn't make them stiff

>> enough if you made them bigger...

>>

>> I tried the advance kite - it was the 5.0 and it was pretty windy and

>> gusty - ideal conditions for that kite... And it flew ok and could be

>> depowered almost fully (I don't think you want total depower or the kite

>> will fall).. But ... I didn't really like the style with which it

>> flew... If you werent real good at dealing with the depower (fine tuning

>> all the time) you tended to loose power very easily... Of course I only

>> flew it twice and any kite you need some time to get adjusted to but the

>> market didn't respond to these kites either... Maybe we will get back to

>> them in the future ?

>>

>> ====

>>

>>

>> I had this talk with a number of expert kite designers in the past (kite

>> designers with more than 15 years experiences, not 1 to 5 years

>> experience kite designers) and ask them why don't they give kite flyers

>> full control of the kite (i.e., be able to sheet out the kite 100% like

>> in sailing - for those who DON'T KNOW, this is when we can depower the

>> kite %100 - and those who want to depower the kite 300%, please talk to

>> Stefano ;-).

>>

>> The answers I got back that they don't trust kite flyers and afraid that

>> kite flyers would stall the kite and blame the designer for a bad

>> design.

>>

>> So this trend seems to be persistence until today (the young designers

>> probably don't even know why it is designed this way),

>> kiteflyers/kitesurfers can only control the kite to a certain point

>> because kite designers don't trust our ability to keep the kite in the

>> air.

>>

>> The kitesurfing/kitesnowboarding/kiteskiing company that can give 100%

>> control of the kite (or at least a larger percentage of it) may likely

>> create a new trend that may change our sport drastically.

>>

>> Hung.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

>>

>> http://www.KiteHIGH.com

>> ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or

>> ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)

>> Em: support@k...

>>

>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

>This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

>

>http://www.KiteHIGH.com

>ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or

>ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)

>Em: support@...

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

>

>

--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CC - Steve <kite_head@n...> wrote:

> allowed it to fully depower.  A 2 line or 4 line sled shape cannot

achieve 100% depower unless the front lines can move from the wing

tips to a point closer to the center.  I experimented with this once

with some

> limited success a few years ago. I think it may have potential.



This can probably be achieved fairly easily with some "integrated"

bridle system and some connection points closer to the center.  If I

have time, I may do some experiments with my Wipika Classic 3.5 (it

already has some connection points closer to the center).



> The biggest problem with the Seasmik design - from my experience was

that there was too little bar movement to go from no power to full

power and too much bar pressure when at full power.  I had some ideas

for correcting this but did not want to spend the money to fool with it.



"Too little bar movement to go from no power to full power" is

probably common for all foil shape.  But if we are being able to do it

for a sled LEI then it would be the same as now (sheet out to depower

the kite up to a point - arms fully extended and trim strap fully

pulled) and then we'll be able to to simply drop the bar to 100%

depower when in trouble (also flip the kite over on the water and make

it ready to relaunch).



"Too much bar pressure when at full power", why can't you simply hook in?



> I do like the kite on lwheels and snow though.  It is great to be

able to depower totally and on the fly.  You are right that a leash is

unecesarry with this kite Hung.  You can sheet out and fully depower

on front lines

> only and/or you can stall it and back it to the ground,  It is

absolutely the most fully controllable kite I have ever flown.  the

only other that comes close is the Revolution.



Sounds like trying to eliminate the leash (very cumbersome to some

competitors) this way is MUCH BETTER and SAFER than making it a "part

time" safety leash.



Hung.

Hey Steve, did your experiments look anything like this?

http://www.usakite.com/lift2.htm



--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "hungvuatnetcomdotca"

<hungvu2000@r...> wrote:

> --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CC - Steve <kite_head@n...> wrote:

> > allowed it to fully depower.  A 2 line or 4 line sled shape cannot

> achieve 100% depower unless the front lines can move from the wing

> tips to a point closer to the center.  I experimented with this once

> with some

> > limited success a few years ago. I think it may have potential.

>

> This can probably be achieved fairly easily with some "integrated"

> bridle system and some connection points closer to the center.  If I

> have time, I may do some experiments with my Wipika Classic 3.5 (it

> already has some connection points closer to the center).

>

> > The biggest problem with the Seasmik design - from my experience

was

> that there was too little bar movement to go from no power to full

> power and too much bar pressure when at full power.  I had some

ideas

> for correcting this but did not want to spend the money to fool

with it.

>

> "Too little bar movement to go from no power to full power" is

> probably common for all foil shape.  But if we are being able to do

it

> for a sled LEI then it would be the same as now (sheet out to

depower

> the kite up to a point - arms fully extended and trim strap fully

> pulled) and then we'll be able to to simply drop the bar to 100%

> depower when in trouble (also flip the kite over on the water and

make

> it ready to relaunch).

>

> "Too much bar pressure when at full power", why can't you simply

hook in?

>

> > I do like the kite on lwheels and snow though.  It is great to be

> able to depower totally and on the fly.  You are right that a leash

is

> unecesarry with this kite Hung.  You can sheet out and fully depower

> on front lines

> > only and/or you can stall it and back it to the ground,  It is

> absolutely the most fully controllable kite I have ever flown.  the

> only other that comes close is the Revolution.

>

> Sounds like trying to eliminate the leash (very cumbersome to some

> competitors) this way is MUCH BETTER and SAFER than making it

a "part

> time" safety leash.

>

> Hung.

Have you guys tried a flysurfer psycho?

I have a 15.5 and it is a very powerful kite.

If you have a chance to look at a bridle while flying you will be very

confused.

It can depower quite a bit.

I have only ridden with it 4 or 5 times.  last time I went out in 6 to 8 mph

and a big board and was able to stay up wind.



It definitely takes some getting used to and it does turn slowly but it

turns!.

At full power it is more powerful than a 20 LEI and a full depower I think it

is close to a 9 or 12.

I do not have enough experience in heavy wind to be sure.  I did have to swim

up wind to get my board in about 18 and I could do it with the kite fully

depowered.

I also have an xxxl that probably flies in less wind because it is lighter

but not by much and I can not depower it at all.



Anyway back to the bridle.  There are 3 lines.  the middle line is attached

to the brake lines so that when you throw away the bar the kite flips on its

back and lies face up ready to relaunch.

When you pull the bar back the A bridle(top) and the B bridle(middle) pivot

off of the brake line.  there are sliding rings and pulleys so it is not easy

to describe in words.

At maximum power the A lines and B lines are balanced so that there is power

in both of them.  when you pull on the depower strap(like on a LEI kite).

You are tightening the middle line which is now making most of the force go

to the A lines.

It sounds confusing but it does work.  It is a foil kite that depowers quite

a bit to give a range of an equivalent LEI of 10 or 12 meters to 23 or 25

meters.



I do not work for them. I have inflatables and I have other foils.  This one

does depower a lot.

The way the middle line goes from being a brake line to the B/A line

regulator is similar to the way the lines work in the Cabrinha recon system

where the

front and rear lines are a continuos loop with stoppers to lock it into the

powered position.

George





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, georgeiw@a... wrote:

> The way the middle line goes from being a brake line to the B/A line

> regulator is similar to the way the lines work in the Cabrinha recon

system where the

> front and rear lines are a continuos loop with stoppers to lock it

into the

> powered position.



I am not sure who comes up with the "back line/front line as a

continous loop" idea, Flysurfer or Cabrinha (in their RECON system),

but I can see that this idea can be used for a 100% fully sheet out

sled LEI kite (which of course eliminates the safety leash and

automatically flip the kite over on its back ready for relaunch)



P.S., I do hope that the "back line/front line as a continous loop"

idea is not patented (I don't think it is as you need some very

specific application for patenting); otherwise, only one company can

built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI kite.



Hung.

--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "hungvuatnetcomdotca"

<hungvu2000@r...> wrote:

> --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, georgeiw@a... wrote:

> > The way the middle line goes from being a brake line to the B/A line

> > regulator is similar to the way the lines work in the Cabrinha recon

> system where the

> > front and rear lines are a continuos loop with stoppers to lock it

> into the

> > powered position.

>

> I am not sure who comes up with the "back line/front line as a

> continous loop" idea, Flysurfer or Cabrinha (in their RECON system),

> but I can see that this idea can be used for a 100% fully sheet out

> sled LEI kite (which of course eliminates the safety leash and

> automatically flip the kite over on its back ready for relaunch)

>

> P.S., I do hope that the "back line/front line as a continous loop"

> idea is not patented (I don't think it is as you need some very

> specific application for patenting); otherwise, only one company can

> built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI kite.



Well, last year we discussed about this here and it looks like this

year Windwing is coming out with a very similar system allowing 90% to

100% depowerable LEI (see

http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2309240 )



See how the "back line/front line as a continuous loop" and how "fully

sheet out" the kite is?



As usual, it normally discussed on the kitesurf group first and of

course everything here is "patent free"...



P.S., Note my prediction last year: "I do hope that the "back

line/front line as a continous loop" idea is not patented (I don't

think it is as you need some very specific application for patenting);

otherwise, only one company can built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI

kite" ?



Hung.

Hello,



My new email is windjosue@...













> To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com

> From: hungvu2000@...

> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 01:26:16 +0000

> Subject: Re: RES: [ksurf] Fully sheet out kites - Windwing new system

>

>

>

> --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "hungvuatnetcomdotca"

> <hungvu2000@r...> wrote:

> > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, georgeiw@a... wrote:

> > > The way the middle line goes from being a brake line to the B/A line

> > > regulator is similar to the way the lines work in the Cabrinha recon

> > system where the

> > > front and rear lines are a continuos loop with stoppers to lock it

> > into the

> > > powered position.

> >

> > I am not sure who comes up with the "back line/front line as a

> > continous loop" idea, Flysurfer or Cabrinha (in their RECON system),

> > but I can see that this idea can be used for a 100% fully sheet out

> > sled LEI kite (which of course eliminates the safety leash and

> > automatically flip the kite over on its back ready for relaunch)

> >

> > P.S., I do hope that the "back line/front line as a continous loop"

> > idea is not patented (I don't think it is as you need some very

> > specific application for patenting); otherwise, only one company can

> > built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI kite.

>

> Well, last year we discussed about this here and it looks like this

> year Windwing is coming out with a very similar system allowing 90% to

> 100% depowerable LEI (see

> http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2309240 )

>

> See how the "back line/front line as a continuous loop" and how "fully

> sheet out" the kite is?

>

> As usual, it normally discussed on the kitesurf group first and of

> course everything here is "patent free"...

>

> P.S., Note my prediction last year: "I do hope that the "back

> line/front line as a continous loop" idea is not patented (I don't

> think it is as you need some very specific application for patenting);

> otherwise, only one company can built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI

> kite" ?

>

> Hung.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit

> http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers

> to the most frequently asked questions.

>

> === to unsubscribe, please send an email to

kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>



_________________________________________________________________

Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync.

http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi everybody,



I am complete profane in this and I need proffesional help. Who can explain me

the difference between chicken loop and trip loop.



Tnx



E











---------------------------------

Do you Yahoo!?

Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Trim loop and Chicken loop are the same... but usually chicken loop ain't a

fixed loop



Chicken loop, or trim loop, is used to control the power of the kite while

riding



Greg



>Hi everybody,

>

>I am complete profane in this and I need proffesional help. Who can

>explain me the difference between chicken loop and trip loop.

>

>Tnx

>

>E

>

>

>

>

>

>---------------------------------

>Do you Yahoo!?

>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

>

>http://www.KiteHIGH.com

>ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or

>ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)

>Em: support@...

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Many tank's Greg!



Peace

E



Dreadlord 2 <dreadlord2@...> wrote:

Trim loop and Chicken loop are the same... but usually chicken loop ain't a

fixed loop



Chicken loop, or trim loop, is used to control the power of the kite while

riding



Greg



>Hi everybody,

>

>I am complete profane in this and I need proffesional help. Who can

>explain me the difference between chicken loop and trip loop.

>

>Tnx

>

>E

>

>

>

>

>

>---------------------------------

>Do you Yahoo!?

>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

>

>http://www.KiteHIGH.com

>ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or

>ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)

>Em: support@...

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing



http://www.KiteHIGH.com

ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or

ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)

Em: support@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







---------------------------------

Do you Yahoo!?

Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What I did to Seasmikize my Wipi 8.5 Classic was to sew some attach points near

center of leading edge, then run lines from standard front attach points to

these new attach points with a slider on them.  When I

sheeted in kite flew normal.  when I sheeted out liders would start to move

toward new attach points.  The problems I had were 1.  Even at full sheet in the

sliders had a tendency to be a bit forward of where I

wanted them.  2.  When sheeted out sliders did not go all the way to where I

wanted them, so I got more than stock sheet out but not as much as I wanted.



It was at this point that I abandoned my experiments.



I posted some of this to the group back then.



Steve.

Carson City, Nevada, USA





9/17/2003 6:32:32 AM, "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@...> wrote:



>--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, georgeiw@a... wrote:

>> The way the middle line goes from being a brake line to the B/A line

>> regulator is similar to the way the lines work in the Cabrinha recon

>system where the

>> front and rear lines are a continuos loop with stoppers to lock it

>into the

>> powered position.

>

>I am not sure who comes up with the "back line/front line as a

>continous loop" idea, Flysurfer or Cabrinha (in their RECON system),

>but I can see that this idea can be used for a 100% fully sheet out

>sled LEI kite (which of course eliminates the safety leash and

>automatically flip the kite over on its back ready for relaunch)

>

>P.S., I do hope that the "back line/front line as a continous loop"

>idea is not patented (I don't think it is as you need some very

>specific application for patenting); otherwise, only one company can

>built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI kite.

>

>Hung.

>

>

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Steve,



If you add the "front lines and back lines as a continuous loop" idea

(from Flysurfer Psycho or RECON - I don't know who copy who) to your

design then it may work.



As a continuous loop, the back lines will keep the front lines where

it supposed to be and when you make the back line slack (sheet out)

the front lines will move gradually forward until it completely

depower the kite 100%.



This idea should work in principle but it may not work for current

sled LEI as the center of lift and the connections points may be in

the wrong places for its purposes.



Hung.



--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CC - Steve <kite_head@n...> wrote:

> What I did to Seasmikize my Wipi 8.5 Classic was to sew some attach

points near center of leading edge, then run lines from standard front

attach points to these new attach points with a slider on them.  When I

> sheeted in kite flew normal.  when I sheeted out liders would start

to move toward new attach points.  The problems I had were 1.  Even at

full sheet in the sliders had a tendency to be a bit forward of where I

> wanted them.  2.  When sheeted out sliders did not go all the way to

where I wanted them, so I got more than stock sheet out but not as

much as I wanted.

>

> It was at this point that I abandoned my experiments.

>

> I posted some of this to the group back then.

>

> Steve.

> Carson City, Nevada, USA

>

>

> 9/17/2003 6:32:32 AM, "hungvuatnetcomdotca" <hungvu2000@r...> wrote:

>

> >--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, georgeiw@a... wrote:

> >> The way the middle line goes from being a brake line to the B/A line

> >> regulator is similar to the way the lines work in the Cabrinha recon

> >system where the

> >> front and rear lines are a continuos loop with stoppers to lock it

> >into the

> >> powered position.

> >

> >I am not sure who comes up with the "back line/front line as a

> >continous loop" idea, Flysurfer or Cabrinha (in their RECON system),

> >but I can see that this idea can be used for a 100% fully sheet out

> >sled LEI kite (which of course eliminates the safety leash and

> >automatically flip the kite over on its back ready for relaunch)

> >

> >P.S., I do hope that the "back line/front line as a continous loop"

> >idea is not patented (I don't think it is as you need some very

> >specific application for patenting); otherwise, only one company can

> >built 100% fully sheet out sled LEI kite.

> >

> >Hung.

> >

> >

> >This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

> >

> >http://www.KiteHIGH.com

> >ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free USA or

> >ph: 1 808 637 KITE (5483)

> >Em: support@k...

> >

> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >

> >

> >

> >

Yes and No



The front lines were on sliders like this but the sliders were much longer.

About 3 feet.  They ran from the front attach point to the leading edge near the

2nd struts.  If the center strut is no 1 then the struts on either

side of center are number 2.  So in Sheet out position it was almost like

holding the leading edge.  Near full depower.



This idea looks pretty cool though.  If they are right - that it lessends drag

during turning and sheeting in - then it might be worth doing.  I'll have to try

it on an old kite.





Steve

Carson City, Nevada, USA







9/21/2003 7:50:50 PM, "hink_trent" <hink_trent@...> wrote:



>Hey Steve, did your experiments look anything like this?

>http://www.usakite.com/lift2.htm

>

>--- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "hungvuatnetcomdotca"

><hungvu2000@r...> wrote:

>> --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CC - Steve <kite_head@n...> wrote:

>> > allowed it to fully depower.  A 2 line or 4 line sled shape cannot

>> achieve 100% depower unless the front lines can move from the wing

>> tips to a point closer to the center.  I experimented with this once

>> with some

>> > limited success a few years ago. I think it may have potential.

>>

>> This can probably be achieved fairly easily with some "integrated"

>> bridle system and some connection points closer to the center.  If I

>> have time, I may do some experiments with my Wipika Classic 3.5 (it

>> already has some connection points closer to the center).

>>

>> > The biggest problem with the Seasmik design - from my experience

>was

>> that there was too little bar movement to go from no power to full

>> power and too much bar pressure when at full power.  I had some

>ideas

>> for correcting this but did not want to spend the money to fool

>with it.

>>

>> "Too little bar movement to go from no power to full power" is

>> probably common for all foil shape.  But if we are being able to do

>it

>> for a sled LEI then it would be the same as now (sheet out to

>depower

>> the kite up to a point - arms fully extended and trim strap fully

>> pulled) and then we'll be able to to simply drop the bar to 100%

>> depower when in trouble (also flip the kite over on the water and

>make

>> it ready to relaunch).

>>

>> "Too much bar pressure when at full power", why can't you simply

>hook in?

>>

>> > I do like the kite on lwheels and snow though.  It is great to be

>> able to depower totally and on the fly.  You are right that a leash

>is

>> unecesarry with this kite Hung.  You can sheet out and fully depower

>> on front lines

>> > only and/or you can stall it and back it to the ground,  It is

>> absolutely the most fully controllable kite I have ever flown.  the

>> only other that comes close is the Revolution.

>>

>> Sounds like trying to eliminate the leash (very cumbersome to some

>> competitors) this way is MUCH BETTER and SAFER than making it

>a "part

>> time" safety leash.

>>

>> Hung.

>

>

>This group is sponsored by KiteHIGH.com Kitesurfing

>

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>